Knife Question for SWAT/Tac Unit Guys

[LockedBreech]

I have been considering a new gun in July as a reward for paying off my student loan several years early (on track to happen in June).

After talking to my humble, quiet, awesome friend from college, who made SWAT today and also made detective recently, I have decided that money would be better spent buying him a nice knife for everyday duty carry.

Obviously it's his choice, he's a grown man, but any suggestions from tac unit guys and/or detectives about a robust, useful knife in the $250-300 range? We are currently chatting about Benchmade options like the Barrage and Triage.

[smithjd]

Benchmade are nice, but check out Tom Halloran knives. He is a good guy and his knives are excellent and about your price range.

http://halloranknives.com

[Dagga Boy]

In a folder in that price range...I think the ZT stuff is the best out there right now. Their Hinderer, Emerson, and Onion/Strider production versions are outstanding. Emerson production stuff is good. For a fixed blade....Strider DB would be a first choice for a SWAT knife, but I am a bit biased.

[TGS]

My agency issues us the Auto Triage. I personally like it and carry it everyday simply because I value the punch and rescue hook, but what I gather among knife guys is that you can get a better quality knife for the price. I'm not sure of how many other knives also have a rescue hook and punch, though.

[blues]

I'll echo DB. I like the ZT (Hinderer) models for EDC , hard use. I carry one much more than I thought I would. It just keeps finding its way into my pocket.

But it'd be hard to go wrong with any of the suggestions.

[Dagga Boy]

I gifted a kid in the National Guard who works for me a ZT Hinderer. He wanted a big fixed blade cool guy blade. After he deployed to Hurricane Harvey he realized how good that Hinderer was for really using and all the guys in his unit are jealous and he is never without it now.

[blues]

I gifted a kid in the National Guard who works for me a ZT Hinderer. He wanted a big fixed blade cool guy blade. After he deployed to Hurricane Harvey he realized how good that Hinderer was for really using and all the guys in his unit are jealous and he is never without it now.

I first met Rick at his first Blade Show (or Guild Show) years ago. I "knew" him from online. I thought his work showed great promise back then and am only sorry I didn't buy a few of his knives over the years before they became so popular.

ZT has done a great job of capturing the spirit. I was fortunate to be very generously gifted mine by Thomas Welk of ZT Knives. (I'm saving the Elmax model for when I wear this one out. ;))

[WobblyPossum]

I first met Rick at his first Blade Show (or Guild Show) years ago. I "knew" him from online. I thought his work showed great promise back then and am only sorry I didn't buy a few of his knives over the years before they became so popular.

ZT has done a great job of capturing the spirit. I was fortunate to be very generously gifted mine by Thomas Welk of ZT Knives. (I'm saving the Elmax model for when I wear this one out. ;))

Looks like the ZT Hinderer folder is being discontinued so they’re on sale for $200: http://www.gotknife.com/zero-tolerance-zt-hinderer-folder-zt550/

The ones with the flipper also say discontinued on the site but aren’t discounted.


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My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

[blues]

Looks like the ZT Hinderer folder is being discontinued so they’re on sale for $200: http://www.gotknife.com/zero-tolerance-zt-hinderer-folder-zt550/

The ones with the flipper also say discontinued on the site but aren’t discounted.


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My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

That's the one I've had for a few years. The 0550 and the 0551. I'm not a flipper guy.

The one flipper I own is an all damascus custom Model 16 by Kit Carson which he gave me a remarkable deal on it for helping him man his table at the Blade Show in the late 1990's. (It was featured in the knife rags back when.) The damascus steel was forged by Daryl Meier and given to Kit by the Buck family.

[WobblyPossum]

It does look like a solid utilitarian knife. How does it compare to the Spyderco PM2?


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My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

[blues]

It does look like a solid utilitarian knife. How does it compare to the Spyderco PM2?


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My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

I don't own the PM2 but the ZT will be far more robust, (especially at the tip)...but not nearly the slicer.

(I've sort of hankered for a PM2 but I haven't carried any of my Spyderco's recently. I still have a virgin Military in 440V, and a nice Calypso Jr (one of my favorite models) in ZDP-189 among sundry others.) I gave away my other Calypso Jrs to folks who admired 'em.

[Guerrero]

Strider DB would be a first choice for a SWAT knife, but I am a bit biased.

I heard somewhere that the guy who designed that had some SWAT experience. And was also rogueishly handsome. And witty to boot.

[SeriousStudent]

You left out exquisite taste in revolvers.

[JCS]

Looks like the ZT Hinderer folder is being discontinued so they’re on sale for $200: http://www.gotknife.com/zero-tolerance-zt-hinderer-folder-zt550/

The ones with the flipper also say discontinued on the site but aren’t discounted.


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My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.


LE can sign up on the site ExpertVoice and get ZT knives for 50% off retail. I’ve used them before. You can get an 0562cf w/ m390 steel for $150 which is just ridiculous. I’ve used them before. The knives ship straight from ZT.

[Default.mp3]

Given that Benchmade and ZT both have good pro deals, might I suggest something that you can't get with a pro deal: https://www.knivesshipfree.com/benchmade-knives-908bk-1501-axis-stryker-ii-carbon-fiber-black-blade-drop-point-cpm-m4/

Still a Benchmade, but a dealer special, so Benchmade's pro deal doesn't apply. Of course, locale matters, the CPM-M4 is a tool steel, and thus needs more care against corrosion than your standard stainless steel blade.

[LockedBreech]

We are reviewing all these answers, thank you all. My god, I also found a ZT knife for around $300 that is so gorgeous I might need to buy it myself.

https://zt.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/zt0393

[Rich@CCC]

If you want a robust automatic knife that you will give to your kid when you retire, look at the RAT Worx MRX. These things are the bench mark for over built working knives.

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Rat-Worx--2020

Not to say that any ZT, Hinderer blade would be a bad choice either. But that MRX is the epitome of Tuff as Nails.

ETA: I am not SWAT or "on the job" in any capcity. Just a knife user and connoisseur.

[txdpd]

Is he wearing suits/slacks in his detective duties? Tactical pocket knives with blocky edges, grippy scales and metal clips aren't always nice to nice clothes. Pant's pockets can be reinforced with leather in high wear area and it's not any more out of place than a knife, or something that can be carried on a belt/IWB without being too out of place.

If you can swing another $30 a Broco jimmy bar, will be a better swat "knife" than most knives and it'll greater extend the useful life of any knives he carries. A pry bar and a knife will give you a lot more useful options, than trying to find a knife that can stand up to being used as a pry bar.

[Wondering Beard]

I'll offer up for consideration another classy, rock solid folder: the Spyderco PPT (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C135CF/Perrin-PPT-Solid-CF/1120)

https://assets.brandfolder.com/p0nm71-4j9ld4-2ijoxz/v/1385778/element@2x.png

[blues]

I'll offer up for consideration another classy, rock solid folder: the Spyderco PPT (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C135CF/Perrin-PPT-Solid-CF/1120)


Always nice to see Fred getting some props.

[Radar Love]

I interned with an agency last summer and my supervisor was a big fan of the Triage, but I think some of the other options on this thread have a bit more personality and would make a better gift. It might also be worth looking into having whatever knife you decide on engraved (either locally or at the factory) with something to commemorate the occasion.

And congrats to your friend (and you!)

[Wondering Beard]

He deserves them, always, and that folder is particularly nice and practical; I'm thinking of getting an extra one in the "two is one, one is none" mindset.

[Clusterfrack]

(Oops. I just saw that this question was addressed to LEOs, which I am not. Sorry about that.)

[LockedBreech]

It’s $240 on Amazon (https://amzn.to/2HQJWwd). :)

My once-magnanimous mission has suddenly become “buy two knives”


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[Risto]

One of my swat buddies had a Bark River knife. Bravo something I think it was. Man that knife was cool. Felt great in hand and was scary sharp. I think they even made a tactical holster for him. USA made and lifetime warranty.

Worth adding to the research list.


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[secondstoryguy]

A SWAT operators job is kinda like a reverse construction worker so anything one uses is generally used hard and torn up at some point. High end stuff is nice to have but one thing about knives I’ve learned is someone always wants to borrow them and god knows what they are going to use it for. Folders also tend to disappear out of pockets because they get caught on stuff.

I would get him something nice but don't buy something he’ll use in full kit, iust sometnig he’ll carry when dressed down.

All that being said the new Geissele/Abraham and Moses fixed blade is really good looking and seems perfect for SWAT stuff. I don’t really care for the factory sheath but I’d buy the plain blade with no sheath ($375) and have a good kydex guy fix it up.

[LockedBreech]

(Oops. I just saw that this question was addressed to LEOs, which I am not. Sorry about that.)

I still value your input, offer as you like.


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[JCS]

We are reviewing all these answers, thank you all. My god, I also found a ZT knife for around $300 that is so gorgeous I might need to buy it myself.

https://zt.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/zt0393

25603
I have always considered myself a Spyderco guy but I now own almost as many ZTs. I keep my collection small and I don’t see myself ever getting rid of this one. The g10 overlays provide a lot of grip and it doesn’t take up near as much real estate as say the zt0562.

[KPD]

My duty knife for the last five years or so has been an Emerson PUK. The only folding knife I have been carrying is a Swiss Army Knife.
However, if I could afford it and only have one knife it would be a Strider SMF. The SMF is my all time favorite knife for work. I sold mine and downsized due to life events that have resulted in a serious drop in income.
An SMF and DB would be an ideal pair IMO.

[Hambo]

A few thoughts:
-I don't think I ever used a knife for anything critical on SWAT.
-Mostly I carried a folder by Benchmade or Emerson.
-If you hand it to a teammate, it better not be one you'll cry over when it gets lost or broken.

The real classy thing to get your bud would be a small Sebenza. :cool:

[LockedBreech]

A few thoughts:
-I don't think I ever used a knife for anything critical on SWAT.
-Mostly I carried a folder by Benchmade or Emerson.
-If you hand it to a teammate, it better not be one you'll cry over when it gets lost or broken.

The real classy thing to get your bud would be a small Sebenza. :cool:

A few other comments have been along this line. I just told him I don’t care whether he picks a full featured duty blade with tools, a pry bar, a plainclothes detective blade, or a jack of all trades blade. He knows his day to day better than me, so I just told him to browse the brands and ideas here and pick one and send me the bill. Though further posts are certainly welcome, as I don’t know knives especially well other than liking my Benchmade.


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[blues]

A few thoughts:
-I don't think I ever used a knife for anything critical on SWAT.
-Mostly I carried a folder by Benchmade or Emerson.
-If you hand it to a teammate, it better not be one you'll cry over when it gets lost or broken.

The real classy thing to get your bud would be a small Sebenza. :cool:

Or an Insingo...(I have a large "regular", and a small "Insingo" and I just love that pair.)

[Clusterfrack]

I still value your input, offer as you like.


My current favorite folders are the ZT 0620 Emerson in Elmax (great deal on Amazon right now (https://amzn.to/2K453vq)), and the Emerson CQC-7F (both pictured in the first image below). If your buddy is in to the Emerson wave, or wants to invest the time to learn it, these could be good options.

I also own a ZT 0560 (second image below), and it's the most robust folder in my collection. Truly a monster, but actually not too heavy due to its titanium construction.

And, about a comparison to the Spyderco Para2... I'm a huge Spyderco fan, and the Para2 is a nice knife. I gave our contractor one when he finished our latest remodel. Great knife for the price.

Edit: one more thought. For this use, I think you want a knife that stays closed when it's supposed to. The ZTs have very strong detents. The Emerson, not so much. I've got a patch in the rear pocket of some 5.11s from when it came open by itself. Fortunately I didn't also need stitches in my ass.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/367b707c459a8217012edf839aaf6c7f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180221/aa1ac62a1de664de2e9053b3b4b6f329.jpg

[Hambo]

Or an Insingo...(I have a large "regular", and a small "Insingo" and I just love that pair.)

It's not cool to have to return to the shitty abandoned building you were training in because you think you dropped your Seb there. Just sayin...

[blues]

It's not cool to have to return to the shitty abandoned building you were training in because you think you dropped your Seb there. Just sayin...

I carried expendable knives on SRT.

I think the knife I carried the most was a Benchmade AFCK (in M2). It was particularly apt because former SEAL Chris Caracci helped design the knife and he was my primary instructor when I went through Ft. Lauderdale P.D.'s SWAT school back in the 90's.

(I didn't realize his connection until after I already owned the knife.)

[Erick Gelhaus]

The AFCK & Chris C ... have the knife.

For the role discussed, I'd look for a very robust, relatively short fixed blade or folder. I have a bias in favor of the DB as a sharpened crowbar. I have intentionally broken noticably longer blades that were as thick; however, I haven't broken a DB.

Another option would be a higher end multi-tool. I use one of those more than either type of knife.

[Grey]

The AFCK & Chris C ... have the knife.

For the role discussed, I'd look for a very robust, relatively short fixed blade or folder. I have a bias in favor of the DB as a sharpened crowbar. I have intentionally broken noticably longer blades that were as thick; however, I haven't broken a DB.

Another option would be a higher end multi-tool. I use one of those more than either type of knife.

Not a SWAT/LE guy (just a knife guy...) but this is spot on. If you think he is going to pry shit with it then get a pry bar. Trying to get a knife that is good at prying is going to make it shit at cutting because the blade is going to be so damn thick. Striders are great fixed blades for beating the hell out of but if you want to get a slicer then their fixed blades are usually not the way to go.

[Dagga Boy]

Clusterfrack-Use the heck out of both models of ZT's and concur with everything you wrote, including the price from Amazon. I hve the spearpoint version of the Emerson ZT, and it and the Hinderer have been stellar performers.


The AFCK & Chris C ... have the knife.

For the role discussed, I'd look for a very robust, relatively short fixed blade or folder. I have a bias in favor of the DB as a sharpened crowbar. I have intentionally broken noticably longer blades that were as thick; however, I haven't broken a DB.

Another option would be a higher end multi-tool. I use one of those more than either type of knife.

Glad to see more Chris C fans. Chris was funny back in the day. Had a bunch of good stuff and some eye rolls, but he was fun. And of course.....the Carracci Floor Jack was a great move.....:-)



Not a SWAT/LE guy (just a knife guy...) but this is spot on. If you think he is going to pry shit with it then get a pry bar. Trying to get a knife that is good at prying is going to make it shit at cutting because the blade is going to be so damn thick. Striders are great fixed blades for beating the hell out of but if you want to get a slicer then their fixed blades are usually not the way to go.

The Strider DB was designed specifically for use in conjunction with a folder. It allowed use of a thin bladed folder to do typical daily cutting chores, and the DB was for everything else. Things like the Watson Gamboa were designed as a stand alone do it all blade.

[blues]

Chris was a lotta fun but he was diabolical when it came to ambushes and entry defensive techniques.

I learned a lot from him. Also from the SAS when they came to Miami and presented a course of instruction. I kind of miss those days now. (Except for the call outs in the middle of the night.)

Has Chris ever done any other knife designs? I haven't kept up with him in many a year. (He had a sub-forum on bladeforums.com back in the early days.)

[Dagga Boy]

Chris was a lotta fun but he was diabolical when it came to ambushes and entry defensive techniques.

I learned a lot from him. Also from the SAS when they came to Miami and presented a course of instruction. I kind of miss those days now. (Except for the call outs in the middle of the night.)

Has Chris ever done any other knife designs? I haven't kept up with him in many a year. (He had a sub-forum on bladeforums.com back in the early days.)

For every good thing with Chris, there were a lot of eye rolls. The centerline Derringer carry was hilarious. I trained with a lot of that generation team guys. You got a few nuggets, they were fun to hang with, but very little was applicable. Same with the SAS guys. Simply very different worlds.

[Wondering Beard]

I carried expendable knives on SRT.

I think the knife I carried the most was a Benchmade AFCK (in M2). It was particularly apt because former SEAL Chris Caracci helped design the knife and he was my primary instructor when I went through Ft. Lauderdale P.D.'s SWAT school back in the 90's.

(I didn't realize his connection until after I already owned the knife.)

I still have mine somewhere ... now I need to go and find it.

It impressed quite a few people at a Remy Presas (RIP) winter camp over twenty years ago, which surprised me as I would have thought they would know all about it.

[blues]

For every good thing with Chris, there were a lot of eye rolls. The centerline Derringer carry was hilarious. I trained with a lot of that generation team guys. You got a few nuggets, they were fun to hang with, but very little was applicable. Same with the SAS guys. Simply very different worlds.

The entry techniques were useful as alternatives to what Miami-Dade, Miami P.D. and other local agencies taught back then. We were able to put them to use on various entries over the years. Same with GSG 9 when they came over.

Also, don't forget, Chris was not teaching simply SEAL techniques...but the Ft. Lauderdale P.D. curriculum.
(We trained with SEALS separately on the beach and abandoned hotels on Key Biscayne. No, no aquatic deployments for us, we joined up on the beach.)

Now, if you want to talk about the SEALS landing HALO jumps on our rooftops while quartered at Marana, that caused some eye rolls and not a few laughs at the pub. (Except for one that didn't make it. Marcinko wrote about it in one of his books.)

[Hrhawk]

Is the DB still in production/available?

[SCSU74]

Is the DB still in production/available?

Yes, as is the DB-L and SA/SA-L if you prefer clip point

If he can carry a fixed blade go DB/SA all the way. Otherwise for a folder I'd go waved first, so either an Emerson or Zt/Emerson. The thing I don't like about the ZT's is the smooth lockside. They're fine off duty, but I really like the rough g10 on both sides of the Emerson's. I've tried/owned spydercos/Zt's/BM's/Strider's/Hinderer/CRK and always come back to Emerson for duty. I carry a Super Roadhouse strong side and a Super Kbit support side. I really like the wave and the ability to open the blade on the draw with one hand.

[Exiledviking]

I'm not LE nor a hard user of knives but I have had many different knives over the years including ZT, Spyderco, Benchmade, and Chris Reeve. I hope it's OK to add my $0.02?

The one knife that keeps popping into my noggin is the Benchmade Contego with the M390 stainless steel blade. IIRC, it was designed with input from a high-speed low-drag military unit. Regardless, it's a really solid knife.

[Spectre044]

I have a ZT 0300, 0350, and a Benchmade Adamas that I alternate carrying. They're all folders and easily replaceable should I lose one. I wouldn't go for anything too expensive or exotic. SWAT guys are hard on their gear. We will find a way to break anything given enough time.

[willie]

Almost 50 years ago, a friend who was a uniformed patrolman killed an opponent by gutting him with a fixed blade knife in a do or die situation. The opponent was in the process of disarming him. The gutting aspect wasn't planned per se but did occur. My friend was convinced that he would be sent to prison because of how things looked. Having said this, I ask if an officer's using a knife as a weapon brings about more scrutiny when the incident is investigated.

[jnc36rcpd]

Any use of high level force, especially if death or significant injury results, is going to bring about "scrutiny" by the department's review process, the prosecutor, "community" groups, politicians, the media, and possibly DOJ. This is probably especially true if a knife is involved. That said, if an officer had a "better" way of resolving dead;y threat, he or she would take that alternative. I personally would prefer to bring about "more scrutiny" than be killed or seriously injured.

I will remark that in most use of knives by officers does not seem to attract the media and political attention I would have expected. I would invite comment by Dagga and others with more expertise on that issue.

[txdpd]

The biggest potential issue with a knife is an officer failing to retain his knife and being killed or injured with it. The second biggest issue is having to use deadly force because the officer failed to retain said knife. Getting dead is pretty obvious problem. Creating a situation where you can be accused of manufacturing a deadly force scenario due to negligence or just flat out accused of planting a throw down. It's all pretty theoretical, police knife use is so rare that there isn't enough data out there to get a feel for a public reaction.

[LockedBreech]

As OP I would again like to express my thanks for the excellent information shared.