M1A worth any time?

[TheRoland]

Given the lack of pistol grip, unscary wood stock and common ten round mags, the M1A is starting to look like a reasonable option for all but the most restrictive ban states. Obviously ammo is heavy and we're not talking great accuracy, but there are threads about social bolt guns and lever guns at this point.

What would one need to know before looking in this direction? Is there anything here worth the time and money?

[Duelist]

With proper massaging, the M1A can be very accurate.

And is always a cool, tempting option.

[jeep45238]

It’s worth it. A friend routinely shoots his at 900-1100 yards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

Only for ban states in my opinion.

[BehindBlueI's]

and we're not talking great accuracy

Really? What's expected accuracy on an M1A?

I've always sorta-kinda wanted one but never enough to actually pursue one.

[Cory]

Really? What's expected accuracy on an M1A?

I've always sorta-kinda wanted one but never enough to actually pursue one.

I'm not any kind of expert, but I'm pretty sure most folks consider accuracy to go Bolt -> AR -> M1a. Without unitized gasblock and glass bedding I think most folks expect 1.5 MOA from a M1A on the better end of accuracy. But I'm not positive as I don't own one, I just enjoy reading about them.

-Cory

[LittleLebowski]

M1As are money pits but worthy of consideration in ban states. A large frame AR will be cheaper, easier to modify, and more accurate. A 6.5 Grendel AR is even better. M1As are finicky on accuracy modifications unless you get an expensive chassis and hard to mount optics on (chinweld).

[DocGKR]

The first rifle I shot expert on after getting commissioned in 1986 was an M14. Back when I shot Hi-Power, I had a lot of match grade McMillan stocked M1A's, both iron sighted and with optics (they were heavy beasts)--I have sold all of them.

M1 rifles tended to be more reliable than M14/M1A's.

The safety on an M14/M1A is MOST definitely an issue in a LE setting, especially for entries/CQB--in fact, it pretty much makes it a non-starter.

I've seen more M1A and M14 clones break recently than I care to contemplate--particularly the SA M1A SOCOM's; I've NEVER seen a SA 16" SOCOM16 successfully complete a multi-day carbine class. If you do decide to get an M1A/M14 clone, make sure you send it to someone like Smith Enterprise or Fulton to have all the current manufactured poor quality parts replaced.

If you have no other options, M1A's work OK as simple, rugged iron sighted rifles of limited long term accuracy potential. For mounting optics or any other precision role, there are far better choices, although the Ultimak mount works OK for an Aimpoint.

The M1A/M14 leaves much to be desired for LE use--it is time to let it retire to the land of myth and lore.

[Drang]

if the concern is potential coming bans, it still retains a detachable box mag; yes, you can go with a ten rounder, but why? Are there no 10 round magazines for AR10 clones?

It also retains the weakest feature of the M1 Garand, the external operating rod with all kinds of odd bends to it. (See also: Overrated guns of history: the M1 Garand – Gun Nuts Media (https://www.gunnuts.net/2015/03/10/overrated-guns-of-history-the-m1-garand/))

Mind you, the first firearm I purchased was an M1 Garand, and I love it, but unless you have a specific role or niche you are looking to fill, or are just looking to fill out your collection of US Martial rifles, I don't see the point.

[Peally]

How does the M1A compare to the M1 internally? My M1 is a fun historical piece but next to an AR-15 there's no comparison, it's a heavy and comparatively complex and finnicky rifle.

I say compare a lot.

[Drang]

How does the M1A compare to the M1 internally? My M1 is a fun historical piece but next to an AR-15 there's no comparison, it's a heavy and comparatively complex and finnicky rifle.

Close enough to identical as not to matter. Biggest difference is the external box mag vs. internal feed mechanism.

[Peally]

Close enough to identical as not to matter. Biggest difference is the external box mag vs. internal feed mechanism.

That's what I figured, and that's not a positive in the M1A's favor :D

[ACP230]

The M1A I shot in NRA Highpower matches was my most consistently accurate rifle.
I had others that were more accurate till the barrel heated and then the groups opened up.
The M1A just kept shooting into group.

It was another shooter's backup rifle and had some glass bedding and other target mojo done to it.
None of that was changed or repeated when I shot it. It still kept shooting well. I changed from the
fiberglass to a birch stock and back and it kept shooting well.

Had no real problems reloading for it either. Used LC 7.62 by 51 brass and Winchester 147 grain FMJ boattails that were
overrunns from military contracts, I think. Not target bullets but shot like them.

There are other styles and calibers and different stocks available now. The .308 still has the advantage of cheap brass
but the 6.5 Creedmoor does look interesting.

[jeep45238]

Short stroke self regulating gas system vs long stroke gas system that can be bent with improper ammo selection is key as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[spinmove_]

The first rifle I shot expert on after getting commissioned in 1986 was an M14. Back when I shot Hi-Power, I had a lot of match grade McMillan stocked M1A's, both iron sighted and with optics (they were heavy beasts)--I have sold all of them.

M1 rifles tended to be more reliable than M14/M1A's.

The safety on an M14/M1A is MOST definitely an issue in a LE setting, especially for entries/CQB--in fact, it pretty much makes it a non-starter.

I've seen more M1A and M14 clones break recently than I care to contemplate--particularly the SA M1A SOCOM's; I've NEVER seen a SA 16" SOCOM16 successfully complete a multi-day carbine class. If you do decide to get an M1A/M14 clone, make sure you send it to someone like Smith Enterprise or Fulton to have all the current manufactured poor quality parts replaced.

If you have no other options, M1A's work OK as simple, rugged iron sighted rifles of limited long term accuracy potential. For mounting optics or any other precision role, there are far better choices, although the Ultimak mount works OK for an Aimpoint.

The M1A/M14 leaves much to be desired for LE use--it is time to let it retire to the land of myth and lore.

Given what you’ve said, Doc, would you think the M1 Carbine would be a better alternative to the M1A/M14?

Would an AR with ban state compliant furniture be even better?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Duelist]

Given what you’ve said, Doc, would you think the M1 Carbine would be a better alternative to the M1A/M14?

Would an AR with ban state compliant furniture be even better?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Certainly, I'm not Doc, but it completely depends on what you're doing with it. Shooting high power? Forget about the M1 carbine. Use an AR or M1a. Defense under 200yds, ban state? Carbine is a possible. General use, not ban state? Lego gun, all the way.

[DocGKR]

In any free state, a quality AR15 with appropriate ammunition and standard capacity 20-30 rd magazines is an ideal defensive firearm.

If that is not possible, USGI M1 carbines tend to work well with appropriate modern ammunition--stick with the 15 rd mags if possible.

If you are in a state with a 10 rd mag limit, then consider sticking wiht a shotgun or perhaps a lever action carbine, although one could make an AR15 or AR10 with a 10 rd detachable mag work in a pinch.

Bullet button's are a NO-GO on a defensive firearm.

[Trooper224]

I've used an M1 and an M1A in competition and used an M14 when in servitude to Uncle Sugar. They're great rifles, I love them and their associated history. That being said: their time in the sun is over and they're best appreciated as the historical artifacts they are. Doc's right on point with the crappy quality of SA Inc.'s current offerings.

If a non-threatening looking rifle is what you're after, a wood stocked Mini-14 with a short magazine might be a better choice. If a friendly looking rifle in a ban state is a requirement don't overlook a lever action.

[HCM]

Really? What's expected accuracy on an M1A?

I've always sorta-kinda wanted one but never enough to actually pursue one.

The M14/M1A is a battle rifle, basically an upside down AK action. The M1A / M14 as a precision weapon is a myth outside he y modified target models.

Rack grade M14's I've shot have been 3 to 6 MOA.

Rack grade SA commercial M1As have been 3-4 MOA

You can make an MIA more accurate but it is a costly and intensive process and the accuracy will degrade every time you take it out of the stock for maintenance. It ain't a bolt gun and there are several reasons serious high power shooters switched to ARs.

There is mo truly good way to mount optics - they just aren't made for it.

If you want one for nostalgia, get a full size or an 18" bush / scout model with the standard gas system. As Doc noted, the so called "SOCOM" models have durability and reliability issues.

I concur with Trooper224 - a wood stock Mini 14/Mini 30 is you best bet for a ban state rifle.

[jellydonut]

They're beautiful looking but time has run out for them. The long-stroke gas piston system and stock bedding means it has terrible potential for being turned into a precision rifle. We can all thank the U.S. military for perpetuating that myth by wasting enough money on them to make some of them accurate.

If I lived in a ban state, I'd get the Ares SCR instead. Perhaps one day they'll even make a big bore version.

[fatdog]

I have a 70's manufactured Springfield, back when they had real GI parts and TRW bolts, etc. It probably needs a new barrel but is still about 1.5 MOA with my match loads. If I were getting a new one today I would go for the James River Armory version, a friend bought one and it is much better quality than what Springfield makes now based on the samples I have seen.

Not for everybody, and I don't disagree with the criticisms above at all, but I started competition shooting with one in 1986 and decided I will always have one. If you gave me a mini-14 I would only head to the pawnshop and dump it. I am sure Ruger improved it since the 80's, but back then those guns were minute of barn door POS guns.

[echo5charlie]

Given the lack of pistol grip, unscary wood stock and common ten round mags, the M1A is starting to look like a reasonable option for all but the most restrictive ban states. Obviously ammo is heavy and we're not talking great accuracy, but there are threads about social bolt guns and lever guns at this point.

What would one need to know before looking in this direction? Is there anything here worth the time and money?

I would have no issue purchasing a current manufacture M1A. The two manufacturers I'd look at are Springfield Armory (lifetime warranty) and James River Armory. SAI has the advantage with the warranty, James River is new but are using forged receivers from BULA Defense. Price points are similar.

As far as accuracy, you are correct. The M1A is a 2-4 MOA rifle using standard ball, a little better with match grade ammo. Getting a sub-MOA rifle takes armorer/gunsmith skill and money.

I've shot enough ammo through a M1A to burn out a barrel. If ammo pricing was back to the days of South African surplus, I'd burn out another.

[HCM]

I have a 70's manufactured Springfield, back when they had real GI parts and TRW bolts, etc. It probably needs a new barrel but is still about 1.5 MOA with my match loads. If I were getting a new one today I would go for the James River Armory version, a friend bought one and it is much better quality than what Springfield makes now based on the samples I have seen.

Not for everybody, and I don't disagree with the criticisms above at all, but I started competition shooting with one in 1986 and decided I will always have one. If you gave me a mini-14 I would only head to the pawnshop and dump it. I am sure Ruger improved it since the 80's, but back then those guns were minute of barn door POS guns.

The newer 500 series Mini 14's are not tack drivers but at 3 ish MOA, plus or minus. They are significantly more accurate than the old style. About the same as most commercial M1A's.

The barrels of the new ones are 16" vs 18" and are noticeably thicker in profile. The older minis often benefit from having the barrel cut back to 16". Reduces whip / barrel flex.

[JAD]

I only have a Garand because I think it’s cool; but I only have long guns because I think they’re cool. If I need to shoot someone, I’m not going to go get a gun.

[fatdog]

having the barrel cut back to 16". Reduces whip / barrel flex.

I remember guys screwing moveable weights onto "tuning spots" the old barrels to get harmonics under control. Glad to hear Ruger finally saw the light and put a heavier barrel on those now.

[elsquid]

If I lived in a ban state, I'd get the Ares SCR instead. Perhaps one day they'll even make a big bore version.

I live in the PRK, and I recently picked up an SCR lower. They are fairly popular here.

And at least one configuration of said rifle is NYC approved, so there is that...

http://www.guns.com/2015/05/21/ares-scr-gets-new-low-rise-irons-official-nyc-approval/

— Michael

[BehindBlueI's]

Interesting, thanks to those that replied. I doubt I ever actually get one, they are rather pricey for a "because it's cool" purchase that I'd probably never actually shoot enough to bother with.

[Duelist]

Interesting, thanks to those that replied. I doubt I ever actually get one, they are rather pricey for a "because it's cool" purchase that I'd probably never actually shoot enough to bother with.

Agree. I'd rather spend the money on a DMR clone or a long range rig.

[Trooper224]

I only have a Garand because I think it’s cool; but I only have long guns because I think they’re cool. If I need to shoot someone, I’m not going to go get a gun.

Very true. 98% of the guns in my safe are only there because I think they're cool. All of my rifles fall into that category and the newest is an FAL. When I could get a 1k round case of surplus ammo for $75 they were shot a lot more. Now, maybe two or three times a year. My only true working rifle is the one the State issues me and I'll turn that in, in less than a year. To each his own, but I'm primarily a handgunner because those have always had the most practical everyday input in my life.

[JAD]

FALs are *way* cool.

[Trooper224]

FALs are *way* cool.

Yes they are. I've been tempted to sell mine a time or two, but I always manage to talk myself out of it.

[Ivantheterrible]

I used to shoot the M1A in High Power competition and when my rifle was wearing out its third barrel, it started to have issues. I loved shooting it and shot some really good scores with it but it was expensive to keep maintained in match condition and those knowledgeable on how to maintain them are getting fewer.

That rifle was sold and, last year, on a whim, I bought a new SAI "loaded" model with the plain synthetic stock. I have been really impressed with the workmanship in this rifle (should be the case for what it costs). The stock/receiver fit is great and the gas piston actually passed the tilt test off of the rack. The only modification I did was to fit a new match rear sight. The factory one was a real sloppy fit. Taking it to a recent local 200yd reduced high power match, I shot a decent 768 with it.

I'm just saying that based on this one example, I think the new SAI rifle is significantly better than the one I bought 10 years ago and is a "keeper".

[Hambo]

FALs are *way* cool.

If I were tempted to get a retro .308 it would be a FAL and not an M1A.

[LittleLebowski]

FALs are *way* cool.

PREACH IT!

[JAD]

If I were tempted to get a retro .308 it would be a FAL and not an M1A.

Buy both. The kids will do fine in JuCo.

[mmc45414]

I have this one:
25319
And like it, managed to shoot a small doe with it on this trip:
25320
but I would also considering selling it, just because I am thinking about thinning the herd to fund things I am more actively interested in (I guess that wouldn't be thinning the herd...). Just that if I am going to have money tired up in things that are cool that don't get shot very often, revolvers are easier to get out of the safe and look at. Plus I seem to find myself on a pistol range more often than a rifle range.

It was built by a local guy that was an FFL and former armorer, so it doesn't have a real pedigree, but would be priced accordingly (PM if anybody might be interested, not really actively marketing it).

[psalms144.1]

If I were tempted to get a retro .308 it would be a FAL and not an M1A.Couldn't agree more. I've been drooling over nice FAL clones almost since I bought my first personal firearm. Never pulled the trigger; maybe I need to rectify that before I retire and I have to live on a fraction of my current salary...

I've owned a couple of Springfield M1As in various models, and, frankly, was never anything but "meh" about any of them. We had a few of the tricked out "modernized" M14 variants in our armory for a while, and gave them some range time, but they did NOTHING that our Mk17s didn't do better...

[DocGKR]

Yup....

[TheRoland]

Thanks for all the feedback. Recommending a lever action over an M1A is pretty severe, and has made me really think in that direction.