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bdcheung
02-08-2012, 09:42 AM
The video was really helpful.

The WHO-draw-ballet is a new-to-me method. I had previously only seen the behind-the-back draw.

Jay Cunningham
02-08-2012, 09:45 AM
Well, if you can't get to your gun behind-the-back (you might not be able to) you need to get to it somehow.

bdcheung
02-08-2012, 09:56 AM
Well, if you can't get to your gun behind-the-back (you might not be able to) you need to get to it somehow.

Doesn't everyone travel with a helper monkey?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kpwg1kT1ao1qzvqipo1_500.jpg

ford.304
02-08-2012, 10:03 AM
Although, from a safety perspective, tucking my gun into my gut to switch my grip as something I do repetitions of on the range is a little scary to me.

Jay Cunningham
02-08-2012, 11:33 AM
You need to run it dry several times first.

JHC
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
I recall a few months back reading of an incident during training somewhere, a student shot himself through the heart (fatally) rolling his pistol across his chest. That was a little different than demo'd across the abdomen. I think I'll stick to the reach around back. Or a big plus for appendix carry.

JV_
02-08-2012, 11:43 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_e76b3bd6-4d0c-11e0-9640-0017a4a78c22.html

JHC
02-08-2012, 11:48 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_e76b3bd6-4d0c-11e0-9640-0017a4a78c22.html

That article did a good job emphasizing the important factors in that incident. And I thought some of Ken Hackathorns live fire drills were pushing the envelope.

bdcheung
02-08-2012, 11:49 AM
Or a big plus for appendix carry.

A few of us on P-F are still trying to figure out a (relatively) graceful way of drawing WHO from appendix carry.

I carry close enough to 12:00 that I can contort my left wrist enough to grasp the grip, but I imagine that the further you move away from centerline, the harder this will be.

bdcheung
02-08-2012, 11:52 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_e76b3bd6-4d0c-11e0-9640-0017a4a78c22.html

Two things to highlight from that article:

...trying an advanced firing technique with a weapon he wasn't familiar with using.
The skill Seymour was learning when he died is not required to get a concealed weapons permit in Missouri.


Both seem like contributing, but avoidable, factors to this unfortunate death. I'm glad to see the sheriff is reviewing whether the instructor should continue teaching this course.

JHC
02-08-2012, 11:54 AM
A few of us on P-F are still trying to figure out a (relatively) graceful way of drawing WHO from appendix carry.

I carry close enough to 12:00 that I can contort my left wrist enough to grasp the grip, but I imagine that the further you move away from centerline, the harder this will be.

I can see it, but I can't describe it. 19th century cavalry draw are the words that come to mind.

ToddG
02-08-2012, 12:23 PM
I'm not fond of any draw (or other technique) that has me handling the gun with less than a full grip on the gun allowing me to index my trigger finger positively for safety.

edited to add: This is precisely why I think trying to learn something like the WHO draw from a short video snippet is a very bad idea. I guarantee if you were in class with Dave, he wouldn't just show you and tell you to run with it. He'd explain how he does it, what safety considerations you need to be aware of, and then he'd watch you like a hawk to make sure you weren't doing something wrong.

If you've ever been to a class and had an instructor correct something and you thought, "hey, I didn't even realize I was doing that!" then you just proved that you can make mistakes without even knowing it. Making a mistake while a loaded gun is pointed at or near your body and you have something other than your normal secure grip is a recipe for bad times.

John Ralston
02-08-2012, 12:55 PM
A few of us on P-F are still trying to figure out a (relatively) graceful way of drawing WHO from appendix carry.

I carry close enough to 12:00 that I can contort my left wrist enough to grasp the grip, but I imagine that the further you move away from centerline, the harder this will be.

My prefered method is to grasp the grip in any fashion I find comfortable (not a firing grip), draw, rotate the grip to the left and stuff it back in the holster (as best it will fit), get a firing grip, draw and present to target. You still need to be aware of finger placement, but you don't have a gun on your belly.

MattInFla
02-08-2012, 01:38 PM
I occasionally practice accessing the gun WHO.

With a blue gun.

I see absolutely no reason to practice it with a live weapon, even unloaded.

turbolag23
02-08-2012, 01:56 PM
A few of us on P-F are still trying to figure out a (relatively) graceful way of drawing WHO from appendix carry.

I carry close enough to 12:00 that I can contort my left wrist enough to grasp the grip, but I imagine that the further you move away from centerline, the harder this will be.

i was wondering about this from the DotW19 thread myself. in that thread todd mentioned he didnt draw WHO due to the risky acrobatics of the draw. like you, i carry aiwb at almost 12:00 as well and drawing WHO doesnt require much acrobatics opposed to carrying at 3:00 and reaching across your body and transitioning the gun between your knees.

what techniques seem to work best or maybe its easier to explain what techniques dont work?

JodyH
02-08-2012, 07:29 PM
From AIWB I'm able to rotate my arm enough to get a decent grip on the gun.
Back of my weak hand against my stomach, three fingers around the grip, trigger finger isn't indexed but stays away from the bang switch.
When I draw I make it a point to consciously rotate/tilt the muzzle away from my body and towards the target.
I index my trigger finger then solidify my grip by bracing the back of the grip/rear sight/hammer on my stomach, then press out from there.

Do not let your finger (or anything else) get near the trigger.
Maintain control of your muzzle.
If you drop your gun, let it fall to the ground.

BLACK
02-08-2012, 07:32 PM
Drawing with my "support" side and placing the pistol in-between my thighs to reset my grip and gain fire control has always kept things safe and maintains muzzle discipline... It definately does not shave any critical seconds off the whole process.
I am still shy of the appendix carry and I have found myself practicing with the 4-5 oclock carry the more I learn to shoot with my "support side". I can access the gun with full fire control with either hand safely and efficiently when the gun is between the 5-7 oclock range. It can be a bit bumbly but it is definately faster than dipping the pistol in between ones knee caps.

On a side note...prayers out to the family of the student who was killed . Sheer negligence like that should never go un-punished.

TGS
02-08-2012, 07:50 PM
My prefered method is to grasp the grip in any fashion I find comfortable (not a firing grip), draw, rotate the grip to the left and stuff it back in the holster (as best it will fit), get a firing grip, draw and present to target. You still need to be aware of finger placement, but you don't have a gun on your belly.

This is also how I was taught (if you're unable to just twist your hand around and establish a grip).