New Gun... How do I game it?

[JFK]

So I could not pass up picking up a new gun. I want to shoot it as a fun / can't get over my competitive challenge mind new venture.

Background.

I shoot Single Stack in USPSA and CDP in IDPA, and am not too bad at it. I started as a supplemental range time / training / trigger time activity. I did progress pretty good. I am currently classified B class in USPSA, but often beat A class shooters in match settings. I am classified Expert in IDPA. I could easily classify Master in IDPA, but I want to achieve this by Match bump, and have yet to win a competition that has enough people to do this. My goal this year is to classify A class in Single Stack and match bump to Master in IDPA. Once I do that I was going to switch to Production and SSP, but I found a new challenge...

I picked up a Smith and Wesson 625 for a song and I like the challenge. The reason I choose to compete in Single Stack and CDP is even round counts in a comp setting. I thought shooting a wheel gun might be a good way to take that up a notch.

Here is my discussion point.

I know nothing about revolvers. I intend to shoot this in IDPA when I achieve my master goal with CDP. What do I need to know to be competitive? What nuances are important? What do I need to know gear wise to make me competitive?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[BN]

First, learn to count to 6. ;) Then realize how often you can do your reload while moving. Your goal is to be high overall at IDPA matches. Not to just beat other revolver shooters. :)

[olstyn]

Your goal is to be high overall at IDPA matches. Not to just beat other revolver shooters. :)

That sounds like a very difficult goal. Revolver reloads are pretty tough to do at the same speed as (or faster than) autoloader reloads...

[BN]

That sounds like a very difficult goal. Revolver reloads are pretty tough to do at the same speed as (or faster than) autoloader reloads...

Difficult, but obtainable. Many, not all, stages have 6 shots here, then 6 shots over there. With an autoloader, you will often do a standing reload. With a revolver, you plan your stage to do as many moving reloads as possible. Go for overall stage wins first, then go for the very satisfying High Overall.

[Peally]

It's a revolver, you don't game a revolver ;)

[Jim Watson]

I would get the revolver in the shop while chasing CDP Master. A go to hell trigger job (Apologies to Col. Askins.) with other action tuneup as indicated.
After that, it is mostly practice, practice. Shooting Rev and Rev E are kind of like the shotgun phase of 3 gun, it is a reloading contest. Get good at it. And treat every stage as Virginia or Limited, you cannot spare the makeup shots you can with an auto.

You can game the ammo a little bit. USPSA Rev Major is the same as SS, just be sure to load roundnose bullets.
IDPA Rev E power factor is only 155, so you can shade your load a bit. But be sure to keep them straight.
I wouldn't bother if shooting both equally, but since I shoot largely IDPA, I do.

[olstyn]

With an autoloader, you will often do a standing reload. With a revolver, you plan your stage to do as many moving reloads as possible.

That seems like something that's probably only true in IDPA, and likely only because of the rule that penalizes you for dropping partial mags on the ground. Actually, that brings up a question about the rules in IDPA: when shooting an autoloader, are you required to have exactly 10 rounds in each mag (or full capacity if that's less like a 1911), or can you load less in order to "game" where your reloads will happen?

[jeep45238]

That seems like something that's probably only true in IDPA, and likely only because of the rule that penalizes you for dropping partial mags on the ground. Actually, that brings up a question about the rules in IDPA: when shooting an autoloader, are you required to have exactly 10 rounds in each mag (or full capacity if that's less like a 1911), or can you load less in order to "game" where your reloads will happen?

Max capacity for the division, unless otherwise stated for the stage.

Doesn't mean I haven't 'missed' the target and had to reload on the move before.

[Norville]

And treat every stage as Virginia or Limited, you cannot spare the makeup shots you can with an auto.

You can game the ammo a little bit. USPSA Rev Major is the same as SS, just be sure to load roundnose bullets.
IDPA Rev E power factor is only 155, so you can shade your load a bit. But be sure to keep them straight.
I wouldn't bother if shooting both equally, but since I shoot largely IDPA, I do.

Major revo is dead in USPSA due to primarily 8 round arrays. 8 round minor is not exactly booming either.

I love wheelguns, but not in USPSA.

[olstyn]

Max capacity for the division, unless otherwise stated for the stage.

Doesn't mean I haven't 'missed' the target and had to reload on the move before.

That right there is why penalizing competitors for dropping partial mags on the ground is dumb; it creates an incentive to pull the trigger when you otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't, which seems like it ought to go against the stated ethos of IDPA.

[jeep45238]

That right there is why penalizing competitors for dropping partial mags on the ground is dumb; it creates an incentive to pull the trigger when you otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't, which seems like it ought to go against the stated ethos of IDPA.

I've also 'made up' shots I didn't need for the same reason. But yes, you're right.

[Jim Watson]

Major revo is dead in USPSA due to primarily 8 round arrays. 8 round minor is not exactly booming either.

I love wheelguns, but not in USPSA.

Revolvers are hardly booming anywhere. Too bad, as Jan Stevenson said of the pump shotgun, it is a skill worth learning for itself.

[jamautry]

While you are waiting have the cylinder chamfered along with an action job. Use only round nose bullets to aid in reloads, the round shape helps to keep the bullet from hanging on the cylinder.

Buy the best moon clips and accessories you can find. By accessories I mean demooner, loaders, and moon checker. I use TK Custom. All of this will keep your reloads as smooth as possible.

https://www.tkcustom.com

Last tip, revolver is more accuracy intensive than any other division, because every miss leads to a possible standing reload which will kill your time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Jim Watson]

While you are waiting have the cylinder chamfered along with an action job.

Definitely. A real action job is more than just a trigger job. Everything has to be just right to support a light DA with limber spring kit.

[That Guy]

That seems like something that's probably only true in IDPA

Actually, no. Reloading while standing still hurts your score in any sort of sport where you are shooting against the clock and moving between target arrays.

Moving between target arrays is a thing that has to happen. Reloads are also a thing that has to happen. Both of them take time. Ideally you want to reload while moving, so you are getting two things done at once.

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[Spartan1980]

I'll second TK Custom for your moonclips. Revolver Supply Co. too. However the .45 clips aren't as critical as the 8 shot clips, so you can still be fast with clips that don't cost $6.00 apiece. When you get to Master class then Hearthco clips will make a small difference over the course of a match. Definitely chamfer the cylinder and also take a dremel with a felt or cotton fob and jeweler's rouge and polish the chamfers. Load 230 grain RN bullets, not the 200 with the step. You can literally throw them into the cylinder. As a matter of fact it's almost always faster to do so than guide them in, the 8 shot guns aren't as easy to reload fast. The BMT Mooner tool is worth it's weight in gold, get one.

I gave it up when USPSA allowed 8 shot minor. It just felt like beating your head against a wall to do a standing reload at every array and dropping a moon with 4 live rounds on the way to the next one. I have a nice 5" 625 that I had a custom fibre front sight made, triple ball crane locks, trigger, etc. It just sits in the safe now because I just can't bear selling it. I'll maybe convert it to .460 Roland some day. And beware, after you've shot it for some time and gotten past the frustration you will learn to like the DA pull. So much so that you may even contemplate DAO autos.

[olstyn]

Actually, no. Reloading while standing still hurts your score in any sort of sport where you are shooting against the clock and moving between target arrays.

Moving between target arrays is a thing that has to happen. Reloads are also a thing that has to happen. Both of them take time. Ideally you want to reload while moving, so you are getting two things done at once.

I'm well aware of all of that; I've been shooting Production division in USPSA for 5+ years. My point was that being forced into a non-moving reload by the rules when shooting an autoloader was only likely to happen in IDPA, due to their (IMO very silly) rule which penalizes you for dropping a partial mag on the ground. If you were to reload every time you moved in IDPA, you'd most likely rack up a lot of penalties, thus negating the time advantage gained by reloading while moving, and probably even ending up with a worse score.

[JFK]

Thanks for the replies.

When I said game. I was really talking about equipment and how to squeeze the little advantages.

I am attracted to it for the same reason I shoot Single Stack. Everything counts. So to me it is much more of a challenge and thoughtful actions. Two things that are never bad in any pistol craft.

I did think about shooting it in USPSA but decided I would not have much fun. At the local match I am typically right at the top with the open and limited folks. Once I reach my goals with what I currently have I thing I will still shoot some flavor of a “full semi-auto”. It would be nice to be at the top.

Thanks for the gear reference. I will look into all of that.

[BN]

When I said game. I was really talking about equipment and how to squeeze the little advantages.


Maybe the biggest thing is that your revolver must go bang every time. If this means you have a 7# trigger rather than a 5# trigger, so be it. This will probably mean you need Federal primers seated deep. Maybe sort your brass by brand.

Use a clean burning powder. I use Bullseye, but there are several.

Keep your chambers and under the ejector star clean. I have a toothbrush, a rod with a brush and another rod with a patch. With my loads I usually don't have to clean between stages. I run the brush through each chamber once, then the patch and finish up by brushing under the ejector star with the toothbrush.

Lots of holsters and moon clip holders out there. I use either Blade-Tech, Comp-Tac or Ready Tactical holsters and California Competition moon clip carriers.

Make sure your moon clips are straight. Place them on a mirror to check. Throw away any bent ones. Don't step on your moon clips. :(

IDPA has some nuances that you can use to game your stage plan. Plan your reloads carefully and do as many while you are moving as possible. Just moving from one side of a barricade will give you an advantage over the auto loaders sometimes.

Always remember that your goal is to humiliate and humble the auto loader shooters. High overall while shooting revolver is the ultimate high. ;)