Sig Sauer P226 P229 - Quality questions

[Cool Breeze]

I have always wanted a P226/P229 for as long as I can remember. What's the story with current production classic series Sigs (the basic variety, non-legion, etc.) I heard there were changes under the new management (and not for the better). What's the current group think? New ones gtg? Only buy used? If so what do you look for (short extractor, etc?)*

Or if there is a definitive guide somewhere on the web...feel to point in right direction.



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[L-2]

My P226R-9mm was made & bought in 2012; my P229R-9mm was made in 2013 and bought in 2015.

My P226R came with the long extractor and E2 grip. My example developed an intermittent failure to extract problem after a few thousand rounds. Instead of sending the slide into SIG, I changed the extractor springs myself, which cured the problem. If that didn't cure the problem, I then would have returned the slide to SIG for them to fix.

My P229R is what was called a "legacy" model which had the older frame, taking the slightly smaller P228 9mm mags, a short extractor, and the E2 grip.

Due to personal preference/feel, I've changed the grips to SIG plastic screw on grip panels. I like the E2 grip, too, I've just been using the older-type screw-on grip panels. I've also reversed the mag catch as I erroneously/intermittently drop the mag if it's configured for a normal right-handed person (on the left). I now have the mag catch protruding from the right as a left-handed person would have it.

Overall, these SIGs have been great. I've got 15,100 rounds through the P226 and 12,000 rounds through the P229.

I'm still mainly a Glock-guy, however.

[jeep45238]

The advice I was given was to hunt for a short extractor model - known quality, preferably with a german frame.

I went older and snagged an internal extractor. Zero issues - but the folded slide models have limited factory support, so if you need an extractor, you're going to pay a pretty penny for one - if you can find one.

I'm looking forward to my next Sig being a milled slide, short extractor model.

[TheRoland]

Sig is a complete dumpster fire these days, with a major design problem they refused to acknowledge, a recall they refused to call a recall, customer service that's mixed at best, and endless iterations on finishes and grip changes for premium prices.

I would imagine most of the legacy pistols are still pretty good. If you just want one because you've always wanted one, you should get one. But otherwise I have no clue why people do business with this company at this point, or why there's such a following for their most recent not-drop-safe Glock competitor. Is it just because it's a modern DA/SA and there are so few?

Honestly, why risk it? Plenty of other companies make serviceable handguns.

[leathermaneod]

Sig is a complete dumpster fire these days, with a major design problem they refused to acknowledge, a recall they refused to call a recall, customer service that's mixed at best, and endless iterations on finishes and grip changes for premium prices.

I would imagine most of the legacy pistols are still pretty good. If you just want one because you've always wanted one, you should get one. But otherwise I have no clue why people do business with this company at this point, or why there's such a following for their most recent not-drop-safe Glock competitor. Is it just because it's a modern DA/SA and there are so few?

Honestly, why risk it? Plenty of other companies make serviceable handguns.

Well said, couldn’t agree more. I used to love Sigs. I grew up shooting my dads 9mm P220 and watching NCIS and thought Sigs were the coolest pistols ever! I bought a P320 shortly before the drop fire issues because I had always wanted a Sig. It was ok but much more difficult for me to shoot well than other striker fired pistols. Once the drop fire issue came out and I saw how Sig handled it, I traded it for a Glock and have never regretted it. Their recent release of another so called game changer with major issues right out of the box confirms to me that I made the right choice. At this point, without major changes at Sig, nothing could persuade me to buy a Sig. I still think they are cool, but only as far as looks and function is more important to me.


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[David S.]

I really liked my P226R. Shoots well and very reliable. I carried it for 5 years until I decided to move on to something lighter. I expect to have my kit up on the FSOT board mid May or so. PM me for details if you’re interested.

[Sensei]

The current base P226 and P229 in 9mm are very good and still among the most accurate and reliable SA/DA 9mm pistols on the market. I'd say they are on par with the base Beretta 92, FNS, etc. You run an increased chance of a lemon by straying into their bling models (tac ops, scorpion, etc.). The only manufacturer that is producing consistently more robust flagship pistols is probably HK. While it is possible that you may get a lemon, a P226 or P229 will generally serve you well provided that you do your part. By that I mean changing out the recoil springs every 3-4000 rounds or so (depending on caliber and ammo). I also replace the other springs and pens about every 15,000 rounds along with a detail strip and replacement of any worn parts. Generally, I replace my high stress small parts (extractor, ejector, etc.) at least every 30,000 rounds even if they look good. Yes, they could go longer but these are tools on which my life depends. Bruce Gray has an excellent video tutorial on how to detail strip and perform preventive maintenance on the P-series that you should get if you invest in a P-series gun.

Just my dos pesos...

[MGW]

I’ve owned multiple 226’s all of them more recent productions. All of them were trouble free, extremely accurate, and a lot of fun to shoot. The last one was a Legion model that had over 10k through it. The finish wore quickly but no issues other wise.

229’s have been a little less reliable for me. The last one was an E2. I had several failures to extract in the first 2k rounds but after that it was fine. I added an SRT kit to it and G10 grips but was stock otherwise. Had the best trigger of any Sig I’ve shot.

I’m hooked on Berettas now but still have a soft spot for Sigs.

[Bill]

In addition to the other comments regarding iffy quality control, current sig has also been known to replace parts that have traditionally been decent with Indian-produced MIM. The current X series guns and Legions no longer have solid tool steel gray guns triggers, but now come with "grayguns designed" triggers made in India via MIM. The change happened quietly with Sig never formally announcing it to customers. That, amongst the reasons noted above, make Sig a real hard pill to swallow these days.

[Olim9]

Ditto on all the QC concerns previously stated. I REALLY like this 226R I had laying around for a good while and revisited it. It’s a late 2005 gun with a German frame and short external extractor. I think it was Todd that pointed out the early 00’s manufactured Sigs are the best ones, I wouldn’t go and buy a newly made Sig especially since you can get an early 00’s gun with the short extractor for the fraction of the cost of a new one if you look around websites that normally stock LE guns.

25046

I got the holster a few days ago and painted the front sight earlier today and I’ll be at the range tomorrow morning then take the gun to a 2 day class very soon. I should know better than to use a Sig especially since I have better options available..

[Lon]

Our 2013 manufactured LE 226s had a 15-20% “failure” rate. As in they wouldn’t go bang when the trigger is pulled. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my opinion of their quality. I carry one every day (a 229 - which in all fairness I’ll say none of the 15 we bought have had issues) because I have to.

If you’re gonna get one, try to find a 2000-2004 manufacture one. My 2003 manufactured 226 ran like a scalded dog for years. My 1990s made 228 was awesome. Loved that pistol. Ran like a champ for thousands of rounds.

[TheNewbie]

Can you still get a legacy model from Quantico Tactical?

Maybe I would consider a SP2022 but that's about it Sig wise right now. Between HK, CZ , Beretta there are too many reliable DA/SA options. Even though the P226 is an amazing weapon in my opinion .

[Kyle Reese]

This happened to me a few years ago with a brand new Sig P226 9mm.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8792

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[Trooper224]

All of this really gives me a sad. I remember in the 80s and 90s, Sig was THE benchmark in semi-auto service pistol quality. It was one of the few brands with which you could almost take it out of the box, load it, stick it in your holster and rock on, because you knew it was going to work. Even if the whole DA/SA crunchin' ticker thing wasn't your ball game, you couldn't deny Sig made a top tier weapon. The P220 I carried in the mid-90s ran like a red assed baboon. How the mighty have fallen.

[navyman8903]

I had a MK25 I got in 2013 or 2014 that ran like rape ape, but the frame got damaged easily on the 1913 rail and the frame had a dent in it from the decocker. But other than that, it was a great gun, I put an SRT kit in it to reduce the reset. Which was great. Loved it, had to sell it because someone broke into my account when rent was due. The people I was renting from were very exacting, so had to sell it. Very sad.

I replaced it with a P226 Legion DA/SA 9mm. Which I love, I honestly think it's the perfect SIG. I'm not sure what year mine is, I'm hearing people say they're not have grey guns do the work anymore. Which is interesting. But my trigger is smooth and I run that pistol very well. I also center punched a 1" bull at 15 yards with it. Which is pretty solid for me at moderate speed. Very effortless gun to run if you're in the zone. You can't sleep on it or get cocky with it, or you'll miss very quickly.


Overall I think the P226 is the best Sig has to offer. It's their flagship pistol. Great gun, the P229 is alright, I used to carry the M11 (P228) while I was the Chief Investigator in CID before this assignment. It ran well and I was confident in it. I do prefer the P226 overall though. I feel I could make a 229 work, but not as comfortably as the P226.

[jwperry]

Aside from their business practices (which suck, but I'm not sure there are any non-custom shop, major manufacturers whose practices don't suck...KAC maybe?) the P226 is a solid pistol. I wonder sometimes if Sig got their long extractors mixed up and put .40 in some 9mm guns and that's why some shooters saw premature fatigue & failures. I've had both and didn't have any issues with the long ones.

I shot primarily Sigs for the last 7 years, a little over 30k rounds if my order totals from SG ammo & PSA are correct, but switched to plastic pistols this year to reduce the weight on my belt line (or transfer it to something else I'm carrying..). My primary shooters were Mk25 variants, but if I had to jump into Sigs again I'd definitely splurge on the Legion, poor finish and all. It has all the features that I usually end up swapping my pistols to anyways. I have a Legion P229 and it has been reliable, but the finish already shows a few wear points just from sitting in the safe. My Mk25-D is probably the most accurate handgun I own, over my Nighthawk 1911.

I do think new Sigs are over priced, FWIW.

[MattyD380]

All of this really gives me a sad. I remember in the 80s and 90s, Sig was THE benchmark in semi-auto service pistol quality. It was one of the few brands with which you could almost take it out of the box, load it, stick it in your holster and rock on, because you knew it was going to work. Even if the whole DA/SA crunchin' ticker thing wasn't your ball game, you couldn't deny Sig made a top tier weapon. The P220 I carried in the mid-90s ran like a red assed baboon. How the mighty have fallen.

That's kinda how I feel.

For me, "Sig" is just a name that gets put on a mass-produced pistol aimed mainly at the consumer market. "Real" Sigs were the FBI guns of the 1990s. German Police guns of the 1980s. Sidearms of the Navy SEALs, Etc.

That said, I think you'll probably get a decent gun that works, if you buy a new Sig. But to me (and I realize this is subjective) it's more or less a different gun, made by a different company.

Since we're talking DA/SA...

A Beretta 92 (for $500 - $600) still feels/seems like a military-grade instrument (and again, I realize that's subjective). A new Sig P22X for $800ish... feels more like a product that's probably made more cheaply, for mainly a consumer audience.

For reference, I have a 2006 P239, a 1998 P245 and a 1988 P226--all of which run great, and shoot amazingly.

[Gadfly]

We issued the 229R DAK for 12+ years. Personal purchase DA/SA were authorized, but had to be inspected by the local armorer to be approved. I was unofficially told look for the short external extractor, a sold pin in the slide (not a roll pin), and a short trigger as being "good to go". Apparently, when DHS was testing the SIG to possibly adopt, they found issues with the long extractor and hollow roll pin, which is what the vast majority of commercially sold guns have. Most agency contract guns specify the short extractor and solid cross pin.

I cant say exactly why those parts were specified or what the problems are with the other parts, but there must be a reason we specified them after testing.

It may be something worth looking for when you are shopping for one.

As far as the E2 grip, I know I had to order 150 spare grip screws a few years back. I have about 15 left. I think the E2 grip is a reaction to that issue. That, and its smaller diameter since it uses a unique mainspring set up and hammer strut.

[Bigghoss]

What has been done to Sig should be punishable with serious prison time.

[MattyD380]

Apparently, when DHS was testing the SIG to possibly adopt, they found issues with the long extractor and hollow roll pin, which is what the vast majority of commercially sold guns have. Most agency contract guns specify the short extractor and solid cross pin.

I've heard anecdotal evidence that Sig makes LE guns with certain parts that are different from commercial guns. Maybe that has changed. Maybe not. But this seems to support that, to some degree.

[Sensei]

What has been done to Sig should be punishable with serious prison time.

The evil irony is that there would be no Sig without what was done between 2004-2012. Sig was facing an erosion in profits throughout the late 90s as Glock began to dominate the market share. Sig had to quickly cut production costs to buy time for their R&D to catch-up into the polymer market. That meant looking at MIM, outsourced small parts production, and diversification of product lines. Had they not done this, then Sig would likely have closed its doors.

[Gadfly]

The number one parts breakage issue we saw on our guns was the take down lever. The cylinder that rotates to release the slide is actuated by a flat piece of steel riveted into place. The slide banging into the locking block would loosen that rivet, and the lever would just free spin and not rotate the cylinder to release the slide. I personally had to replace close to 50 of those take down levers out of about 200 guns. Nation wide it was the same problem. The gun still ran, you just could not disassemble it. There was a small chance of the loose lever rotating under recoil and locking the slide. But that was rare. This was a .40 issue, not sure if the 9mm recoil caused the same issues.

Get one as a spare and toss it in your parts box.

We have also had two framed break at the point where the magazine catch is held into the frame by the small spring loaded detente in the mag release. Cant explain how or why, but have see two of them in 12+ years of issuing Sig.

[1986s4]

The only SIG I really liked was my SAO Elite. That because the thumb safety prevented me from deactivating the slide catch with my right thumb [right handed]. With any other model I had that issue which I know is a training thing but the chance of it happening and the fact that other pistols exist that don't require major retraining of my thumb position has led me away from SIG.
I had to sell the 226 SAO Elite when I needed the money.

All of my SIGS ran but I never really got to push them hard. SIG's QC seems to be a mixed bag these days so that would be in the back of my mind. I don't own a P320 or a Glock but my opinion is the DOD made a mistake in choosing the 320 over the Glock.

[NPV]

I've owned examples from all timeframes of the Sig lifecycle. A P6 from the 1980's, a P228R (P228 slide on P229 frame) from the early 2000's, a P226 MK25 from 2015, a P227 from 2015, and a P226 Legion from 2017.

I'll echo what others have said in that the early 2000's and 1980's guns ran like scared rabbits. My MK25 exhibited a few light primer strikes and was sent back to Sig. They replaced every spring in the gun test fired it and said it was good, since then I have never had any issues with light strikes but it still annoys me as it had under 3K rounds through it when I sent it back. The build quality on the Legion was lacking; the slide to frame fit was poor, the fit and finish was also sub-par.

I really like the West German Sigs but I am reluctant to run them hard or use them for a primary as sourcing spare parts has become work suited for a detective (and I'm also stuck in the 1911 rabbit hole). As others have said the early 2000's guns are great if you can find them for a reasonable price. I have handled a few Sig in my LGS recently; a P225A1, P226RX, etc. and all of them seemed to have inconsistent quality control. For instance one of the P225s had about a 13lb DA pull and a 6lb. gritty nasty SA pull, which is inconsistent with what I have become unaccustomed to seeing from Sig.

If it were my money and I wanted a DA/SA today I'd be looking hard a Langon Beretta 92 or similar offering from HK. Sig has been driven in the same direction as Kimber (the old Kimber CEO is running things) with huge product lines with tons of different variations, but have left their core competencies (building quality guns that work) behind to chase greener grass. Maybe in some ways it has saved the company; but to guys who actually care about shooting IMO there are better options.

EDIT: 1409 Sig has sent me any email requesting I take a marketing survey; are they watching me :p

[Cool Breeze]

solid tool steel gray guns triggers, but now come with "grayguns designed" triggers made in India via MIM.

please educate me - what do you mean when you refer to grayguns triggers vs. gray guns designed triggers? I have heard of Bruce Grey but am not aware of his influence with regards to the classic series (non legion etc) parts. Does the basic classic sig have a tool steel gray guns trigger?

[jeep45238]

please educate me - what do you mean when you refer to grayguns triggers vs. gray guns designed triggers? I have heard of Bruce Grey but am not aware of his influence with regards to the classic series (non legion etc) parts. Does the basic classic sig have a tool steel gray guns trigger?

No, the Legion series came with a Gray Guns trigger - between the old ‘fat’ and new ‘skinny’ trigger widths, with adjustable overtravel and pretravel. Apparently that’s now a MIM part, no longer provided by Gray Guns.

[Cool Breeze]

Ditto on all the QC concerns previously stated. I REALLY like this 226R I had laying around for a good while and revisited it. It’s a late 2005 gun with a German frame and short external extractor. I think it was Todd that pointed out the early 00’s manufactured Sigs are the best ones, I wouldn’t go and buy a newly made Sig especially since you can get an early 00’s gun with the short extractor for the fraction of the cost of a new one if you look around websites that normally stock LE guns.

25046

I got the holster a few days ago and painted the front sight earlier today and I’ll be at the range tomorrow morning then take the gun to a 2 day class very soon. I should know better than to use a Sig especially since I have better options available..
How does one know what year in was made? Is there specific things your look for or known serial numbers? I know you mentioned short extractor but there are short-extractor models that are currently being sold today as NIB and are on Sig's website such as the mk-25 (unless they are using old stock images).

[psalms144.1]

As many have stated, I LOVE my older Sigs. Between 2005 and 2013, I purchased or was issued seven (7) Sig "Classic" pistols (P226, P239, P229) and every single one of them had issues that required multiple returns to Exeter, OR replacement. I'm done with Sig, which is a shame, but I won't spend my money on them anymore.

[Cool Breeze]

Can you still get a legacy model from Quantico Tactical?

Maybe I would consider a SP2022 but that's about it Sig wise right now. Between HK, CZ , Beretta there are too many reliable DA/SA options. Even though the P226 is an amazing weapon in my opinion .

When you say legacy model - I know others have mentioned it takes the older thinner mags but are legacy models also being produced new to the old ways of doing things or are you talking new old stock?

I have also considered the SP2022 - in fact I really like the idea of it. I was going to change the title of the post to add it but my editing hour was up. One of the reasons I didn't go Sig and went Glock was for price and the SP2022 may be a way of scratching the itch without spending a grand on a pistol. I don't know that much about the pistol but it seems to be the same internals as the classic series with just the polymer frame. I also read that sig hasn't changed the way they manufactured the pistols because it was strictly in the contract with the agencies that have adopted it that they couldn't. That being said, I am not sure how true that is. It might be a great way to get a Sig with the reputation of old without rolling the dice on QC and not spend double the coin. I would be interested in other's views on the pistol!

[Cool Breeze]

We issued the 229R DAK for 12+ years. Personal purchase DA/SA were authorized, but had to be inspected by the local armorer to be approved. I was unofficially told look for the short external extractor, a sold pin in the slide (not a roll pin), and a short trigger as being "good to go". Apparently, when DHS was testing the SIG to possibly adopt, they found issues with the long extractor and hollow roll pin, which is what the vast majority of commercially sold guns have. Most agency contract guns specify the short extractor and solid cross pin.

I cant say exactly why those parts were specified or what the problems are with the other parts, but there must be a reason we specified them after testing.

It may be something worth looking for when you are shopping for one.

As far as the E2 grip, I know I had to order 150 spare grip screws a few years back. I have about 15 left. I think the E2 grip is a reaction to that issue. That, and its smaller diameter since it uses a unique mainspring set up and hammer strut.

Great data points! May I ask how you would know if you Sig has a solid cross pin vs. the hollow roll pin? Also, are you aware of any problems that were caused by changing the main spring/hammer struts to accommodate the e2 grip? Thank you!

[Cool Breeze]

The number one parts breakage issue we saw on our guns was the take down lever. The cylinder that rotates to release the slide is actuated by a flat piece of steel riveted into place. The slide banging into the locking block would loosen that rivet, and the lever would just free spin and not rotate the cylinder to release the slide. I personally had to replace close to 50 of those take down levers out of about 200 guns. Nation wide it was the same problem. The gun still ran, you just could not disassemble it. There was a small chance of the loose lever rotating under recoil and locking the slide. But that was rare. This was a .40 issue, not sure if the 9mm recoil caused the same issues.

Get one as a spare and toss it in your parts box.

We have also had two framed break at the point where the magazine catch is held into the frame by the small spring loaded detente in the mag release. Cant explain how or why, but have see two of them in 12+ years of issuing Sig.

How were you able to eventually disassemble the gun or did you have to send it back to Sig?

[MGW]

When you say legacy model - I know others have mentioned it takes the older thinner mags but are legacy models also being produced new to the old ways of doing things or are you talking new old stock?

I have also considered the SP2022 - in fact I really like the idea of it. I was going to change the title of the post to add it but my editing hour was up. One of the reasons I didn't go Sig and went Glock was for price and the SP2022 may be a way of scratching the itch without spending a grand on a pistol. I don't know that much about the pistol but it seems to be the same internals as the classic series with just the polymer frame. I also read that sig hasn't changed the way they manufactured the pistols because it was strictly in the contract with the agencies that have adopted it that they couldn't. That being said, I am not sure how true that is. It might be a great way to get a Sig with the reputation of old without rolling the dice on QC and not spend double the coin. I would be interested in other's views on the pistol!

There was a time I was really interested in the 2022 also. Everything I've read about them is they are good to go out of the box and work well. The only reason I have not bought one is the magazines. I used to have a lot of 226 mags and didn't want to pick up a 2022 and have to buy different magazines. I haven't looked lately but I seem to remember 2022 mags being between $35 and $40 a piece.

[spinmove_]

There was a time I was really interested in the 2022 also. Everything I've read about them is they are good to go out of the box and work well. The only reason I have not bought one is the magazines. I used to have a lot of 226 mags and didn't want to pick up a 2022 and have to buy different magazines. I haven't looked lately but I seem to remember 2022 mags being between $35 and $40 a piece.

I have an SP2022 in .40S&W. The mags are indeed typically $40/piece still.

I love mine, it’s pretty damn good for what it is. Sadly with how Cohen is running the company I won’t buy another SIG until he’s left the company. If you really want a SIG, beware and be careful.

I’m looking at making a slow migration back to TDA. My choice is Beretta. I’d recommend looking that way as well.


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[Gadfly]

Great data points! May I ask how you would know if you Sig has a solid cross pin vs. the hollow roll pin? Also, are you aware of any problems that were caused by changing the main spring/hammer struts to accommodate the e2 grip? Thank you!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/fc020b291baac6c14da23e0f0af1d39b.jpg

Note the top is a solid pin and the bottom is a roll pin. The roll pin looks hollow... and the solid pin looks, well, solid. The short (thin) trigger was specified in the contract, but I don’t know if it was because of a malfunction concern or simple ergonomics. Most likely ergonomics.

The solid pin is a taper pin if memory serves, and the roll pin is not directional, so the slides are drilled differently I think...

[jwperry]

When you say legacy model - I know others have mentioned it takes the older thinner mags but are legacy models also being produced new to the old ways of doing things or are you talking new old stock?


Last year I picked up a new production P229 with short extractor. The box was marked E29LEGACY-xxxx the xxxx being whatever model you're getting. Mine was a DAK that I converted to DA/SA. I think the P226 currently has one that is marketed as a classic carry; short extractor, no rail but comes with some pretty awesome G10 grips.

As for the question in regards to the roll pin; if you look at the picture that Olim9 has posted, there is a 'dimple' in the area of the rear cocking serrations. That's the solid pin. They are an absolute PIA to remove and I won't own another Sig that has one. The Mk25 and other modern ones use a coil pin. The older, carbon slide versions used dual split pins. On the Sigs that had the solid pins, I always replaced them with coil pins after maintenance.

[jwperry]

The solid pin is a taper pin if memory serves, and the roll pin is not directional, so the slides are drilled differently I think...

Not a taper pin like the AR15 FSB, but there is a side that has a larger portion. They look kind of like a screwdriver with a handle on the end, makes it so that you can only insert/remove it from one side of the slide.


ETA: found a pic. 25055

[Gadfly]

How were you able to eventually disassemble the gun or did you have to send it back to Sig?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/80355ca4b293905cb3d5f9049174dcf2.jpg

Note the area in yellow is a cut out in the cylinder. I took a stubby flat head screwdriver and filed the tip until it fit perfectly inside that sort of half moon shape. I could then use it to rotate the cylinder and remove the slide.

Once the slide was off, I would take a pair of needle nose pliers and use them to rotate the cylinder by gripping the cylinder on the inside of the locking block, and rotating until I could get it removed from the frame.

Now, it worked fine, but it would often booger up the anodizing on the frame where the improvised tool rubbed against it. Nothing major, but you could tell. So if your gun is a safe queen, just be aware it could scrape there around the edge of the hole in the frame...

On the left side of the frame, you can see the lever is held in place by a simple rivet. A spot weld would likely solve the issue, but Sig is too cheap for that... most folks will never shoot the gun enough to break it, so it’s cheaper to give away free replacement parts than it is to build the part properly to begin with.


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[AJD21]

The biggest issue with current classic P-Series guns is that are simply overpriced for what they are. I love the Sig P-Series guns so I pay the price and odds are you will encounter no problems and have a trouble free gun if you go buy new but they are priced at $700-$800 for a base gun and $1100+ for the Legion type models(which are actually probably your best value vs. trying to upgrade a base model).

But when PX4's are in the $400+ range, P30/P2000 in the $500+ range and 92FS/CZ75 in the $500+ range if you want nostalgia/metal where does that put a stock P226 at $750? And if you jump to $800-$1200 you can get Wilson Beretta's, Langdon PX4's, Cajun/CZ custom's, etc. I just got a P30L from Robert Burke that has Dawson sights, trigger work and it priced below my Legion.

[jwperry]

The biggest issue with current classic P-Series guns is that are simply overpriced for what they are. I love the Sig P-Series guns so I pay the price and odds are you will encounter no problems and have a trouble free gun if you go buy new but they are priced at $700-$800 for a base gun and $1100+ for the Legion type models(which are actually probably your best value vs. trying to upgrade a base model).

But when PX4's are in the $400+ range, P30/P2000 in the $500+ range and 92FS/CZ75 in the $500+ range if you want nostalgia/metal where does that put a stock P226 at $750? And if you jump to $800-$1200 you can get Wilson Beretta's, Langdon PX4's, Cajun/CZ custom's, etc. I just got a P30L from Robert Burke that has Dawson sights, trigger work and it priced below my Legion.

This is my biggest gripe with them too. Of the 12 or so Sigs I've owned, I've only bought 2 new. Most have been purchased for about 50-60% of what the NIB price is.

For my hand size and the way I grip the gun (sorry, I refuse to grip/train around the slide release!) I normally swap out or modify all the controls to a Legion style setup. That just adds to the cost. But for me, once modified with G10 grips, GGI Intermediate Trigger, short reset trigger, P224 slide release, E2 mainspring assembly & 19lb mainspring, there is no more shootable pistol.

[ubervic]

Can you still get a legacy model from Quantico Tactical?

Maybe I would consider a SP2022 but that's about it Sig wise right now. Between HK, CZ , Beretta there are too many reliable DA/SA options. Even though the P226 is an amazing weapon in my opinion .

I had a SP2022 for a little over a year and liked it okay but sold it off. I bought it mainly because it was a relatively inexpensive way to learn & master the TDA firing mechanism, and it definitely had a sweet double-action pull right out of the box, to boot.

[spinmove_]

I had a P229-1 as well once. I shot it pretty well and handled decently. Once I made a few modifications that fit me decently I was able to shoot it even better, but it was a bit too chunky to really carry everyday. It was about that time I saw the writing on the wall regarding dubious QC and how much effort it could take getting a second and third sample running as I preferred. So I sold it for a G19 and stayed in the striker game since then.

That was probably 4 years ago as of now. I’ve learned a lot during my time shooting mainly plastic strikers. I won’t be ditching my Glocks, but I’m not coming back to SIG either.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[TheNewbie]

When you say legacy model - I know others have mentioned it takes the older thinner mags but are legacy models also being produced new to the old ways of doing things or are you talking new old stock?

I have also considered the SP2022 - in fact I really like the idea of it. I was going to change the title of the post to add it but my editing hour was up. One of the reasons I didn't go Sig and went Glock was for price and the SP2022 may be a way of scratching the itch without spending a grand on a pistol. I don't know that much about the pistol but it seems to be the same internals as the classic series with just the polymer frame. I also read that sig hasn't changed the way they manufactured the pistols because it was strictly in the contract with the agencies that have adopted it that they couldn't. That being said, I am not sure how true that is. It might be a great way to get a Sig with the reputation of old without rolling the dice on QC and not spend double the coin. I would be interested in other's views on the pistol!

This is what I am talking about. Not sure if it's still available.

http://www.quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=5497&type=M&CMN=Sig%20Sauer%20LE/Military&CMNum=206&CMSNum=966&CMSN=P226


A SP2022 would be of interest to me, but I need to focus on Glocks and skill.

[Lon]

How does one know what year in was made? Is there specific things your look for or known serial numbers? I know you mentioned short extractor but there are short-extractor models that are currently being sold today as NIB and are on Sig's website such as the mk-25 (unless they are using old stock images).

Sig has date codes stamped on them. Here’s an article with more info:https://www.realgunreviews.com/sig-sauer-proof-marks-date-codes/

[L-2]

For some reason (perhaps geographically or just with who(m) I've hung out) I noticed these comments which I'm not used to hearing:
Ran like:
-a rape(d) ape
-a scalded dog
-a champ
-a red(-)assed baboon
-scared rabbits

I've digressed. Everyone feel free to go back to the main topic.

[NPV]

For some reason (perhaps geographically or just with who(m) I've hung out) I noticed these comments which I'm not used to hearing:
Ran like:
-a rape(d) ape
-a scalded dog
-a champ
-a red(-)assed baboon
-scared rabbits

I've digressed. Everyone feel free to go back to the main topic.

I had to keep it original seeing as raped ape was already used :p

[Bigghoss]

Next week I'll be trading into a 9mm SP2022. I'm only mildly interested but it's a part of a deal to unload a couple of SKS rifles and nobody else made me a decent offer. If I don't like it I should be able to break even on it.

[TheNewbie]

For some reason (perhaps geographically or just with who(m) I've hung out) I noticed these comments which I'm not used to hearing:
Ran like:
-a rape(d) ape
-a scalded dog
-a champ
-a red(-)assed baboon
-scared rabbits

I've digressed. Everyone feel free to go back to the main topic.

I've heard the raped ape thing plenty of times, but I'm not really sure what it means. :confused:

[TheNewbie]

Next week I'll be trading into a 9mm SP2022. I'm only mildly interested but it's a part of a deal to unload a couple of SKS rifles and nobody else made me a decent offer. If I don't like it I should be able to break even on it.

I like the SP2022 because there is a decent amount of support gear out there for it. Namely ALS holsters from Safariland.

[Bigghoss]

I like the SP2022 because there is a decent amount of support gear out there for it. Namely ALS holsters from Safariland.

That right there is a huge plus. Love me some ALS action.

[Trooper224]

For some reason (perhaps geographically or just with who(m) I've hung out) I noticed these comments which I'm not used to hearing:
Ran like:
-a rape(d) ape
-a scalded dog
-a champ
-a red(-)assed baboon
-scared rabbits

I've digressed. Everyone feel free to go back to the main topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMMsv6_k0-s

[Lon]

Next week I'll be trading into a 9mm SP2022. I'm only mildly interested but it's a part of a deal to unload a couple of SKS rifles and nobody else made me a decent offer. If I don't like it I should be able to break even on it.

Ya know, the 2022 is the one current Sig I MIGHT consider buying. Haven’t seen or heard any horror stories about them. But with the other options out there for DA/SA plastic guns it’d need to be quite a deal.

[Olim9]

A little tidbit I’d like to share on the two piece roll pins for the stamped slide Sigs.

Gerry Rittaco owns a company called Total Automation who offers a one piece roll pin for stamped slides that is easier to install over the two piece roll pins (in my limited experience) and charges you a only a postage stamp for 4. I did this about three years ago but I’m unsure if he’s still offering the service.

[Bigghoss]

Ya know, the 2022 is the one current Sig I MIGHT consider buying. Haven’t seen or heard any horror stories about them. But with the other options out there for DA/SA plastic guns it’d need to be quite a deal.

Peakfirearms has them for $390.

[Kyle Reese]

Peakfirearms has them for $390.I had a pair of them a few years ago in 9mm. Excellent firearms and I recommend them without reservation.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[JonInWA]

The 2022 is literally the only SIG that I recommend without concern or caveat today. It's the only one that I would personally buy. Best, Jon

[spinmove_]

The 2022 is literally the only SIG that I recommend without concern or caveat today. It's the only one that I would personally buy. Best, Jon

I have to second this. They’re fairly uncommon, but I’ve yet to run across a bad sample yet and they’ve all got pretty nice box stock triggers. IF I was going to ever buy a new SIG while Cohen was running things a 9mm SP2022 would be it.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[zuplex]

I've had an SP2022 9mm for the past year. I'm not a high volume shooter and have only put about 1,000 rounds through it. The first 500 rounds were ran without cleaning. Two hand grip, strong hand, weak hand, loose grip, cheap ammo, 115 ball, 124 NATO, brass case, steel case, HST 124 and 124+P, 124+P Gold Dot. It has never malfunctioned.

[dpadams6]

2022 is the hidden gem of good quality handguns for a good price. It's supposed to be almost identical, internally, as the p22_ series, but with a polymer frame. What's not to like?

[Cool Breeze]

There was a time I was really interested in the 2022 also. Everything I've read about them is they are good to go out of the box and work well. The only reason I have not bought one is the magazines. I used to have a lot of 226 mags and didn't want to pick up a 2022 and have to buy different magazines. I haven't looked lately but I seem to remember 2022 mags being between $35 and $40 a piece.

I am not going to lie, I agree with you. I would want a bunch of mags and $40 mags are a tough pill to swallow. I did see some mec-gar ones at 35. I really wish they were interchangeable with the P228/P229 - that would be pretty sweet if you had both weapons or were thinking about "upgrading" at a later date. Classic series sig mags seem to be cheaper.

[Cool Breeze]

The biggest issue with current classic P-Series guns is that are simply overpriced for what they are. I love the Sig P-Series guns so I pay the price and odds are you will encounter no problems and have a trouble free gun if you go buy new but they are priced at $700-$800 for a base gun and $1100+ for the Legion type models(which are actually probably your best value vs. trying to upgrade a base model).

But when PX4's are in the $400+ range, P30/P2000 in the $500+ range and 92FS/CZ75 in the $500+ range if you want nostalgia/metal where does that put a stock P226 at $750? And if you jump to $800-$1200 you can get Wilson Beretta's, Langdon PX4's, Cajun/CZ custom's, etc. I just got a P30L from Robert Burke that has Dawson sights, trigger work and it priced below my Legion.

That's a good question. I have yet to work that out in my brain :confused:

[JTQ]

I really wish they were interchangeable with the P228/P229 ...
That would also mean the SP2022 front strap would probably be long enough to keep you from worrying about pinching your hand when doing reloads. That short front strap (and I don't have big hands) and the loaded chamber indicator are two of the things I don't care for on the SP2022.

[Bigghoss]

I've recently seen SP2022 mags for $33 each. Still not great but an easier pill to swallow. I came across a video of a guy modding Beretta 92 mags to work with the 2022. Grab a handful of those for the range and slowly build up your pile of factory mags.

[jwperry]

2022 is the hidden gem of good quality handguns for a good price. It's supposed to be almost identical, internally, as the p22_ series, but with a polymer frame. What's not to like?

Other than being hammer fired, they're completely different internally. Only thing that is similar is the decocking mechanism, but there is nothing interchangeable between the "classic" Sigs & the 2022.

[David S.]

Greg Cote has Mec-Gar 2022 mags for $30 (http://gregcotellc.com/cart/sig-sauer-magazines-c-123/sig-sauer-sig-pro-sp2009-sp2022-17-rd-9mm-mecgar-mgsp917afc-p-1050.html)

[tanner]

...It's supposed to be almost identical, internally, as the p22_ series, but with a polymer frame...

That is not even remotely true. I was/am a Sig armorer. The 2022 has a "fire control unit" that armorers are not supposed to tinker with. Hammer, sear, decocker etc are all one unit. If any of them breaks, you replace the entire fire control unit. (This is one of the reasons it has such a nice trigger)

With the P22_ series, the internal firing group parts can be taken apart and replaced one at a time.

Hopefully that made sense, if not maybe someone else can explain it better than I did.

[dpadams6]

I read somewhere that they were similar but one had a polymer frame and the other, aluminum. Thanks for clarifying. I'll research more, the next time. [emoji106]

[Joe in PNG]

For some reason (perhaps geographically or just with who(m) I've hung out) I noticed these comments which I'm not used to hearing:
Ran like:
-a rape(d) ape
-a scalded dog
-a champ
-a red(-)assed baboon
-scared rabbits
I've digressed. Everyone feel free to go back to the main topic.

"Rape Ape"- worst children's book EVER!

[OlongJohnson]

I took a stubby flat head screwdriver and filed the tip until it fit perfectly inside that sort of half moon shape. I could then use it to rotate the cylinder and remove the slide.

On the left side of the frame, you can see the lever is held in place by a simple rivet. A spot weld would likely solve the issue, but Sig is too cheap for that... most folks will never shoot the gun enough to break it, so it’s cheaper to give away free replacement parts than it is to build the part properly to begin with.

I bet nylon or delrin rod would work as well without scratching the anodizing.

I remember someone (maybe Todd?) writing about the upgrade, where they brazed or silver soldered the tabs to the pins. So that problem was relatively short-lived, although very real. No longer an issue.

Of course, the ultimate in durability was the P220 Combat (if I remember this right, J Hearne may be along to correct me) take down lever/pin. It kinda baffles me why someone like Bruce Gray doesn't commission a bunch of pins made from something with real durability and impact resistance, like chro-mo or something. With the right machinery, it's an easy program, and you'd load up the machine, turn out the lights, and come back after breakfast with a bin of thousands waiting for you. There's got to be a guy out there with a job shop built around a screw machine.

My biggest concern is with the rail life. My classic Sigs are all newer production, and the anodizing color goes away on areas of the rails way faster than it seems like it should, even with a frequency of de-munging and relubing them that goes very much against the 2000-round-challenge culture here. I've read a post by someone whose agency had a bunch of guns replaced by Sig because the finish of the slides, pre-Nitron, was overly rough and wore the rails at an accelerated pace. I'm kinda nervous about it, and have thought about finding a way to polish the slide rails.

I won't run any of them without stripping and cleaning them. I've seen too many burrs on the rails of the slides that would carve ribbons out of the frame if they were run.

My P226 has been flawless. My M11-A1 has had issues getting Winchester White Box out of the chamber, but has only had a single FTE with any other ammo, which was Blazer Brass.


I'm really sure that the short reach trigger is only for ergonomics. I have big hands and prefer the standard trigger. I've swapped them on a couple guns already and am currently looking for someone to trade another standard one for my short one. Sig told me they're all the same between recent production P226, P229 and P220.

Also, don't confuse the short reach trigger, which is an externally, cosmetically/ergonomically different trigger, with the Short Reset Trigger (SRT) (https://www.sigsauer.com/store/short-reset-trigger-parts-kit-p226-p227-p229.html), which is the sear and safety lever, nothing to do with the external shape of the trigger.

[David S.]

My biggest concern is with the rail life. My classic Sigs are all newer production, and the anodizing color goes away on areas of the rails way faster than it seems like it should, even with a frequency of de-munging and relubing them that goes very much against the 2000-round-challenge culture here. I've read a post by someone whose agency had a bunch of guns replaced by Sig because the finish of the slides, pre-Nitron, was overly rough and wore the rails at an accelerated pace. I'm kinda nervous about it, and have thought about finding a way to polish the slide rails.

I've read Bruce Gray express major concern over rail wear and recommended heavy application of grease to prevent it. He has a blog post about it somewhere on the GrayGuns website (or at least had, it's been a few years since I've looked). SLG, TLG, and several other very experienced Sig guys around here have expressed little to no concern about rail wear.

Take that for what it's worth.

Cheers,
David S.

[Greg]

In my experience with the SP 2022 I would say it is a pistol that best fits those with Small to Medium sized hands.

Large backstraps are rarer than media types that understand firearms. If they fit you, they are a pretty nice DA/SA.

[MattyD380]

I've read Bruce Gray express major concern over rail wear and recommended heavy application of grease to prevent it. He has a blog post about it somewhere on the GrayGuns website (or at least had, it's been a few years since I've looked). SLG, TLG, and several other very experienced Sig guys around here have expressed little to no concern about rail wear.

Take that for what it's worth.

Cheers,
David S.

I've seen finish loss on the rails of all my Sig Classic series pistols. Admittedly... I've not pushed any of my guns to super-high round counts... but I feel like finish loss on the rails is inevitable. And expected. And while I'm no engineer, I've come to think that rail finish and integrity of the metal are separate factors. I've literally seen flakes of anodizing fall off the underside of the rails on my 1988 P226. And I'm not really all that concerned. I feel like the rails would probably still serve their purpose, with very little finish on them. Especially when adequately lubricated.

My Smith 3rd gens also show a lot of finish loss on the rails. And it seems to manifest more quickly, than on Sigs. And the Smiths run just fine. I don't necessarily think aluminum needs a beautiful finish to function adequately.

[1986s4]

Regarding rail wear: I have always used a high quality grease with all my pistols and I notice very little rail wear. At least nothing to worry about. Even Glocks need some rail lube. In fact, my Colt government has more slide finish wear due to holster rub than finish wear on the rails and over the past 3 years it's been my high round count pistol. I'm not stingy with rail grease, IMO if dirt sticks to the greasy bits it becomes slippery dirt.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I was issued a P226/9 from 1997-2004 then a P229 DAK .40 from 2004 to 2011. I don’t care what you use for lubrication, until the surfaces wear in, those frame rails will wear and stabilize given sufficient lunrication. It’s unavoidable and each pistol will wear differently. I use TW25B on my SIG’s and could care less what the rails look like. I just keep them lubricated.

[MattyD380]

I was issued a P226/9 from 1997-2004 then a P229 DAK .40 from 2004 to 2011. I don’t care what you use for lubrication, until the surfaces wear in, those frame rails will wear and stabilize given sufficient lunrication. It’s unavoidable and each pistol will wear differently. I use TW25B on my SIG’s and could care less what the rails look like. I just keep them lubricated.

That's more or less my feeling. I use TW25B and oil. I feel like the grease alone isn't quite as "slippery" as the oil... and I figure the grease helps add a touch of protection. Maybe.

But I honestly wouldn't be concerned, just using oil. Somehow I doubt the German police were using grease on their P6s, throughout the 80s and 90s. And they seemed to work just fine.

[OlongJohnson]

For those interested in the 2022:

https://www.rkguns.com/sig-sauer-sp2022-9mm-full-size-pistol-e2022-9-fde-blkgrp.html

[Sackett]

$0.02
My first 300 rounds through a CA edition SP2022 9mm was great. (Internal extractor and no lci). Then she had a terrible time chambering a single round. I sent it into Sig and they said the breach face of the slide was machined incorrectly. The customer service person also said the gunsmith was having trouble fitting the internal extractor in the new slide, and he asked if it was ok with me to replace the slide with one that had an external extractor and an LCI (normal nonCA version). I said sure, since I feel a little better with the external extractor. That whole process took about 7 business days. The gun now runs like the aforementioned Ape...
She currently has almost 2,500 rounds since returning and about 2,200 since cleaning or application of Lucas lube in the last 4/5 months. I find the trigger very doable in stock form. I prefer the stippling on the 2022 over my 2k$ Boresight g19. And the Sig also comes with an undercut trigger guard that most 226/9s don't have unless its an Elite frame or Legion I think... My only IDPA stage win was with this gun, zero down and faaaast :) (I'm not very good)
I find a G19, CZ P01 and HK USP C to be a little more concealable and sometimes more comfortable for me in a JMC iwb. The Sig is just a little bit bigger. G19 vs 2022 around 25 yards and beyond the Sig easily out shoots it in my hands. But the CZ edges the Sig out in group size. I have finally mastered the "loose pinky reload", and find it a nonissue with practice and no longer pinch my finger on the Sig. I really enjoy how nice the gun feels. The trigger weight and reset, grip texture and shape, easy press checks, metal magazines, lots of sight options etc.
All in all I would recommend the 2022. Most of the things I like about a TDA Sig are here to enjoy, and it's been reliable since the first disaster. I find it ironic that its so cheap most people overlook it, and only come back to it after they own a P226/9. I wish I had bought this gun years ago.

[WOLFIE]

I like the aluminum frame Sigs. I like the short reset trigger and enjoy shooting them. My complaint is that some of them come with nicks in the frame rails. Someone mentioned earlier that slide rails with burrs may be causing this. I used to own a 226 9mm and it came from the factory with nicks in both rails and the nicks increased in size from target practice. The nicks that i have seen are located on the bottom corner of the rail. Frame rail discoloration does not bother me but the nicks do. I always use gun oil and not grease and lube the heck out of the frame and slide rails.

[dpadams6]

I like the aluminum frame Sigs. I like the short reset trigger and enjoy shooting them. My complaint is that some of them come with nicks in the frame rails. Someone mentioned earlier that slide rails with burrs may be causing this. I used to own a 226 9mm and it came from the factory with nicks in both rails and the nicks increased in size from target practice. The nicks that i have seen are located on the bottom corner of the rail. Frame rail discoloration does not bother me but the nicks do. I always use gun oil and not grease and lube the heck out of the frame and slide rails.Most recommend grease, for sig frame rails.

[Tabasco]

I like the aluminum frame Sigs. I like the short reset trigger and enjoy shooting them. My complaint is that some of them come with nicks in the frame rails. Someone mentioned earlier that slide rails with burrs may be causing this. I used to own a 226 9mm and it came from the factory with nicks in both rails and the nicks increased in size from target practice. The nicks that i have seen are located on the bottom corner of the rail. Frame rail discoloration does not bother me but the nicks do. I always use gun oil and not grease and lube the heck out of the frame and slide rails.

Got my first SIG in 2000 (P229, .40) and remember reading on the forums of the day that the nicks in the frame rails were a common phenomenon that no one really understood. Regardless they usually did not progress beyond a certain stage and were not to be worried about. My experience with my 229 mirrored that, although I have always kept it lubed along the frame rails, along with my other semi autos. Just seemed like a good idea.

[OlongJohnson]

Just picked up another lightly used P220 with five mags total on GB. With a $20 transfer, it will be $444 in my hands. Can't figure out how to buy OE mags for less than about $33 each, so that's -$99, or $345 for the pistol. Divide out sales tax, and that's like finding it in the display case at the LGS for $318.71. Deals are out there.

[HCountyGuy]

I’ve had mostly positive experiences with my P226/P229 pistols. The only issue I had was having to send my last P229 in for a slightly oversized barrel hood which was making the slide exceptionally hard to rack after even a short range session.

I’ve divested myself of my Sigs currently, though I still like for an old P228 or a non-tailed legacy P229 in .357 Sig.

Has anyone had experience with the SP2340 models?

[TexasSiegfried]

All in all I would recommend the 2022. Most of the things I like about a TDA Sig are here to enjoy, and it's been reliable since the first disaster. I find it ironic that its so cheap most people overlook it, and only come back to it after they own a P226/9. I wish I had bought this gun years ago.[/QUOTE]


I will as well.

After the P320 adventure, I used that opportunity to move to Da/SA and so I went to my 2022 in .40 which I purchased in 2012.

I am nowhere near the shooter that most of Y'all are, but even I can run that pistol. In fact, as soon as finds allow, I'll be moving into a 9mm version.

I have made no modifications on the pistol and only do the routine maintenance, and have had zero issues over 5000 rounds.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[txdpd]

25251

Here's my 2006 vintage P226 somewhere around 120-130,000 rounds the left front frame rail cracked inside the cutout. I was surprised that it didn't originate inside the deep groove that slide had cut into the back rail. Sample size of one and all that but I think that crack was a defect in the original billet, and I don't think that nicks and wear on the rails will form stress leaders.

I had to polish the nitrolon off of the bottom of the slide rails because it was eating disconnector hump on triggers bars like potato chips. Otherwise it was a pretty good gun.

[OlongJohnson]

I had to polish the nitrolon off of the bottom of the slide rails because it was eating disconnector hump on triggers bars like potato chips. Otherwise it was a pretty good gun.

That's the thing. The Nitron doesn't really have a "roughness" of its own, it's is just a coating on the underlying surface. The surface profile on the steel before the coating is applied matters a lot. And is apparently yet another quality detail that is not always well controlled by Sig.