Some pics from Social Levergun at TacCon 2018

[jlw]

We had 18 students attend the Social Levergun block at TacCon18. Here are the two finalist in the "coolest rifle" category:

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29343348_747585718778750_1101788784488936025_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=8222e82e2b8806ab32c54aed17369e1c&oe=5B36B9BA



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lRXBwUy0E


https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22449910_896051283931593_8075451585743084120_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=0e736dc658ad4777e1b005ed920be5be&oe=5B7523EB




This fellow did the custom work himself:

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29598243_896051300598258_1775988695088040305_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=c3ab6cf0c6a4a2ca7bbc282c20f62764&oe=5B2927A1


https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29789879_896051340598254_8563794538678168736_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=a069ccf69ef5d18f16fad5fb45179b35&oe=5B646AF0https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29684122_896051377264917_7792251917476068952_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=b35835b91cf1ee4b4051d9c3dc9f9867&oe=5B72E8DD

[BobM]

I'm glad you're thinking about doing it again next year. I almost brought my Winchester Trapper but chose not to have a third long gun to manage on the trip.

[THellURider]

Hard to compete with a breakdown!

Picked up a shell carrier from hill people gear post class, have to mod it somehow to work with the side sling mount.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Yes! I escaped the camera.

[jlw]

Yes! I escaped the camera.

I haven't posted everything...

[LJP]

JLW,

Check my blog... I just posted a write up of the class as promised. Good stuff!

John

www.civiliangunfighter.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jlw]

JLW,

Check my blog... I just posted a write up of the class as promised. Good stuff!

John

www.civiliangunfighter.com (http://www.civiliangunfighter.com)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!!

[Bigghoss]

This thread is not helping me stay focused on stuff I actually need to buy.

[Malamute]

Really looking forward to when Im able to get out more, this is one of the things Id definitely travel for.

Is there much interest in a lever action speed loader? Ive been looking at ideas that have been around online for a while, and just made an improved version of what ive seen that was put out as open source or whatever its called when somebody puts an idea out for anyone to use. The other ones Ive seen commercially or home made arent very practical other than for loading on a table at a match before shooting. Trying to make one thats simple, and reliably holds rounds in place, and doesnt require much effort to load or use when on foot or whatever. So far it works best on a Winchester 94, less so on a Browning 92. I'll work on one for a 92 later, Id like to just get the cartridge retention figured out first.

Initial one that holds 6 rds of 30-30 is about 19 1/2 inches long. I'm thinking some shorter ones for easier carry and can top off a magazine easily may also be worth having. Anyone care to comment on that? As is, I think having a clip or loop on the back end to hang it from a belt or whatever may work OK, but the full size ones arent handy to carry. Some shorter ones that held less rounds may be good. I'll share info if anyone wants to try making their own, if they share input and ideas if they have improvements.

Can someone take some pictures of a Marlin 336 30-30 receiver of the loading gate area from different angles and with the gate pushed open a bit so I can get an idea how easy it is to adapt to that model? I made a small nub on the end of the tube to fit into the front end of the loading gate opening on a Winchester 94, it helps locate the tube for smooth feeding, and the tube follower/ram pushes the last round all the way in nicely. At this point, parts are costing about $3-$4. A table saw helps. I'm working on ways to help make it fast and simple to make the tubes.



This thread is not helping me stay focused on stuff I actually need to buy.

I'm failing to understand how lever action guns and gear arent at or near the top of the need list?

[Prdator]

This class is gonna cost me a LOT of $... thanks Lee.... :cool:

[Bigghoss]

I'm failing to understand how lever action guns and gear aren't at or near the top of the need list?

The list is mostly pizza guns and a windshield for my truck.

[Bratch]

I’m famous :cool:

[SeriousStudent]

I really wanted to stay for your class, Chief. But the whining and kvetching from my employers was unbearable, and I had to leave early to go back to work on Sunday night. :(

[David S.]

I really wanted to stay for your class, Chief. But the whining and kvetching from my employers was unbearable, and I had to leave early to go back to work on Sunday night. :(

I don’t know about you but I’ll be bringing a lever gun to next year’s Tac Con.

[SeriousStudent]

Funny you should mention that.

Chief Weems and I have been chatting about hosting him for a lever gun class here in the DFW area. We need 10 folks, I believe. I've got five interested. Want me to add you to the list?

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Funny you should mention that.

Chief Weems and I have been chatting about hosting him for a lever gun class here in the DFW area. We need 10 folks, I believe. I've got five interested. Want me to add you to the list?

Not sure about David brother but pencil this ETX, triple wide living inbred as interested.

[David S.]

Funny you should mention that.

Chief Weems and I have been chatting about hosting him for a lever gun class here in the DFW area. We need 10 folks, I believe. I've got five interested. Want me to add you to the list?

Very interested.

[jlw]

Yes! I escaped the camera.

https://scontent.fatl1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30127121_10155745895139825_7878283602251743232_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=90c4be82662db341f8ba575b02d8b5f5&oe=5B716DBC

[SeriousStudent]

OldRunner & David S - adding you gents to the list. It looks like we just need three more folks. I am scouting out ranges that might host us now.

And these pictures make me envious, it looks like you folks all had a great time!

[Dropkick]

25234

Nice! I've never seen that before. It looks like a great way to show clear. I'll have to start doing that during hunting season.

[Hizzie]

So is there a distinct caliber preference? I’m getting ready to buy my levergun and don’t know which direction to go.

[Malamute]

What do you want to do with it? 30-30 is good for hold right on to 250 yards type shooting, but gives up some capacity for same length barrel and the barrels get hot fast. Pistol calibers have less range, heat up less fast, hold more rounds, and the shells are harder to handle to load. Both are ok for deer size game and hogs. If hunting larger animals is part of the reason to have one, then choose a caliber that works for the game you want to hunt.

[Hizzie]

What do you want to do with it? 30-30 is good for hold right on to 250 yards type shooting, but gives up some capacity for same length barrel and the barrels get hot fast. Pistol calibers have less range, heat up less fast, hold more rounds, and the shells are harder to handle to load. Both are ok for deer size game and hogs. If hunting larger animals is part of the reason to have one, then choose a caliber that works for the game you want to hunt.


Non scary social rifle. I guess “deer sized” game. I know I don’t want 45/70. I have a 416 Ruger so if I need 400grs I have a delivery device. I do already stock 357 and 44 Magnum.

[Malamute]

Its always nice to be ale to use what youve got as far as ammo. Do you have preferences on what make?

I dont know if my loaders will work out with Marlins or not, I dont have one handy to work with. So far they work very well with 94 Winchesters, partly due to the way the loading port is made. More development may get them working OK with Marlins.

[OlongJohnson]

For my starter lever gun, I chose an 1894C in .357. Inexpensive practice, and the longer barrel turns up the juice on those pistol rounds. A full-pressure 157 or 180gr .357 load will be hell on whitetails in the east Texas woods. For hogs, I'd stick with the 180gr XTP for penetration. The 180gr is specified for a higher maximum muzzle velocity, but will be going slower than the 158gr, so it should hold together better on close shots. Out west, go with a different rifle that shoots pointy bullets.

For social occasions, the 1894 tube holds nine or ten .38SPL, so the +P loads would also be serious if they feed reliably. I've been warned that needs to be checked. Haven't chronoed it yet, but Ballistics by the Inch suggests a 125gr .38SPL standard pressure out of the longer barrel should get up to the equivalent of a good defensive 9mm. But with ~1/2 the peak pressure of a 9mm round and a longer barrel to expand in, it should be less ear-damagingly loud if you ever have to shoot it indoors. I don't really count as an SME here, but I have put my money where my mouth is. If it's everything I expect it to be when it comes together, it will be on the list for duplication.

This is worth a read regarding current production:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ranger-point-precision/181873-recent-improvements-remlin-1894s-disqualify-them.html

BTW, those guys are local here in Houston.

Personally, from the guns I've inspected, I wouldn't go newer than about 2007 on a Marlin purchase unless it was to get some special version (stainless or whatever) that wasn't available earlier, and I like the eighties and nineties guns. Some are partial to the pre-safeties, which means 1982 or so, which leads to them costing a bit more.

[jlw]

The pistol caliber carbines tend to be more sensitive to OAL and bullet type. Also, in order to get the most out of the longer barrel you get a load that isn't all that pleasant in a revolver.

That being said, those 1894s are a hoot.

[Hizzie]

Just cruised GB for Winchester 94’s. Not bad.

[Bigghoss]

Marlin would have been my first choice for a pistol caliber lever action but there was a post going around some time ago from a lever action gunsmith about a change to either the ejector or extractor on the 1894's, specifically the .44 mag so I don't know if the .357 was also changed. Anyway, whatever was done, they were warning folks to steer clear. Should be able to find out more on Marlinowners.com.

I've heard good things about the Rossi lever guns but I've no personal experience. Henry supposedly also makes a good rifle but they refuse to put a dang loading gate on the side.

Or there's the Italian made replicas. Those tend to be pretty spendy and are marketed toward purists and CAS so there might not be any good way of mounting accessories.

[OlongJohnson]

Marlin would have been my first choice for a pistol caliber lever action but there was a post going around some time ago from a lever action gunsmith about a change to either the ejector or extractor on the 1894's, specifically the .44 mag so I don't know if the .357 was also changed. Anyway, whatever was done, they were warning folks to steer clear. Should be able to find out more on Marlinowners.com.

I think you're talking about that link in my post above. At the time that was written, Remlin had not made any new .357s after halting and restarting production in NY.

[Robinson]

I owned several Marlin .30-30 and .357 lever guns. The .357s are lots of fun to shoot and a good pest control gun. The Federal 125gr JHP .30-30 load makes for a decent defensive cartridge, and I personally would prefer standard .30-30 soft points over .357 or .44 for hunting -- but that's just me. Within their effective range I'm sure .357 and .44 work fine on deer size game.

If you go with a .357, I found that 158gr bullets worked best in my carbines. Also, you might not want to use pistol caliber hollow points at rifle velocities. A soft point bullet might be a better choice.

You might also consider installing better sights. I had ghost rings installed on all my lever guns and they worked much better for me than the standard open sights.

[okie john]

Also, you might not want to use pistol caliber hollow points at rifle velocities. A soft point bullet might be a better choice.

This.

I once shot a little blacktail at very close range with a 20" Marlin 44 Magnum using 240-grain American Eagle factory ammo. This load does 1200-ish fps out of a revolver but picks up an additional 300 fps in a rifle barrel, which turns it into a grenade. One shot ruined both shoulders. If I still had that rifle, I'd hunt deer with premium bonded factory loads or handloaded cast semi-wadcutters with gas checks.


Okie John

[iWander]

Did anyone in the class use a Henry? The only disadvantage I can see to one is loading via tube vs a loading gate. They have a smoother action and better trigger than any other brand I've tried. Thoughts?
I'm ready to buy a center fire lever, and am looking at a 357 for the first, probably a 30-30 for the second. Or would a 44 be a good compromise between the two?

Also, from a handling perspective, I definitely prefer the 16 or at most 20 inch carbines to anything longer. Thoughts about that as well? I like the idea of using them as a go to SD carbine, but might occasionally do pest control or hunting.

[Nocturnalis Discipulo]

The class required a rifle with a loading gate. The instruction was originally built around the idea of using them, correct me if I am wrong jlw , as a patrol carbine. As such the learning the operation of it would include reloading through both the loading gate and ejection port.

[OlongJohnson]

This.

I once shot a little blacktail at very close range with a 20" Marlin 44 Magnum using 240-grain American Eagle factory ammo. This load does 1200-ish fps out of a revolver but picks up an additional 300 fps in a rifle barrel, which turns it into a grenade. One shot ruined both shoulders. If I still had that rifle, I'd hunt deer with premium bonded factory loads or handloaded cast semi-wadcutters with gas checks.


Okie John

Bullet selection does matter. Many of the XTPs in heavier weights for caliber are meant to be compatible with sabots in muzzle loaders, so they hold together at higher velocity, whereas the lighter weights are made to expand reliably in "Special" loads. Hornady used to publish info regarding recommended MV ranges for each bullet, but it's harder to find now. A google into muzzle loading land (image searches may be best) should dig up tables and/or charts fairly readily.

[Lester Polfus]

Bullet selection does matter. Many of the XTPs in heavier weights for caliber are meant to be compatible with sabots in muzzle loaders, so they hold together at higher velocity, whereas the lighter weights are made to expand reliably in "Special" loads. Hornady used to publish info regarding recommended MV ranges for each bullet, but it's harder to find now. A google into muzzle loading land (image searches may be best) should dig up tables and/or charts fairly readily.

The Hornady reloading manuals have charts with recommended velocities for each bullet, as well as load data for .357/.44 mag specifically for rifles.

On the Marlin owners forum, there's much discussion of the re-intro of the 1894 in .357, which is supposed to be in the wild "soon." Folks who claim to have an inside track at Marlin are saying Marlin is testing each individual rifle as they roll of the line.

Choosing between a pistol caliber or 30-30 is a tough call. 30-30's are much easier to find on the secondary market. 30-30 ammo is $15 a box at The Wal-Mart all day long, and as low as $12 a box on sale. When I went lever shopping last fall I wound up with a 336C in 30-30, but I certainly don't rule out a pistol caliber lever gun in the future.

[Malamute]

Did anyone in the class use a Henry? The only disadvantage I can see to one is loading via tube vs a loading gate. They have a smoother action and better trigger than any other brand I've tried. Thoughts?
I'm ready to buy a center fire lever, and am looking at a 357 for the first, probably a 30-30 for the second. Or would a 44 be a good compromise between the two?

Also, from a handling perspective, I definitely prefer the 16 or at most 20 inch carbines to anything longer. Thoughts about that as well? I like the idea of using them as a go to SD carbine, but might occasionally do pest control or hunting.

Besides the above mentioned class qualifier of a side loading gate, the Henrys are heavier than similar caliber Winchesters or Marlins.

I'm not a huge Rossi fan, but many have come up with good examples of their 1892 Winchester copies in pistol calibers. They arent set up for receiver sights or optics, but can be drilled and tapped for side mount receiver sight like all classic levers, and either the front receiver ring can be d&Ted for a single base for a red dot, (similar to the front base on an angle eject Winchester 94), or the no-drill scope base that uses one front side hole on the receiver and the barrel dovetail for mount points and gives a short rail suitable for a forward mounted scope or electronic sight. Older Winchester can of course all be so done if not D&Ted for receiver sight.

I tend towards the Browning 92s, a bit more money, but a definite step quality wise above anything else in lever guns Ive seen. The current-ish Winchster 92s also have promise, but have rebound hammers and tang safeties which some dont care for. Id still take one over anything else i can thing of if a Browning wasnt available. The current 1873 carbines are also viable, buit the short rail scope mounts arent going to work. A custom mount using the barrel dovetail and perhaps one D&Ted screw where the rear sight would hide it is also workable. The 1873 Winchesters are a bit heavier than the 92s, but reek of history and character, and are very smooth and reliable. Id love to have a trapper (16") or carbine (20") size 73 in 357. If i won the lottery, its probably one of the first things Id splurge on.

Theres tons of semi-used Winchester 94s on the market. Ive been liking the angle ejects, after long being a pre-64 snob and anti-angle eject. Many early AEs are very nice guns. I'm not a fan of the crossbolt safeties, but they work, and are safer to handle and unload. The potential exists to accidentally activate the crossbolt, which is what many dislike about them. The end could be shortened so it takes concerted effort, like a tool, pen, or bullet tip to activate. Look around the leverguns forum or elsewhere and see if the 44 mag cal 94 Winchesters are working OK, I just never paid much attention to them, only recall there being some problems with the 357s 94s I believe.

The 16" "trapper" size Winchester 94s seem to bring a bit more money than the standard 20" carbines. Some models, the Rangers I believe, had plain hardwood rather than walnut stocks, and some unusual configurations of barrel band placement and front sights and other little quirks. A bit more money and one can find some of the comemmoratives that often had high grade wood, checkered stocks, short barrels on some, and other things not found on standard grade guns. the older XTR guns had good grade walnut and checkering. I dont know if they bring much premium, they probably should.

[Hizzie]

Any negative to the Trapper in 30-30?

[Clusterfrack]

I'm kind of interested in the Marlin 1894CST (https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1894/model-1894-cst) (.357, threaded barrel). I could see mounting a SiCo Omega on that gun.

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/sites/default/files/styles/mar_catalog_product/public/70438_1894_CSBL_Threaded_right-no-Silencer.png

[OlongJohnson]

If you're going to spend that money, at least check out the Chiappa Alaskan takedown. The one I handled in .44RM out of the box was much smoother than any new Marlin I've sampled.

[jlw]

The class required a rifle with a loading gate. The instruction was originally built around the idea of using them, correct me if I am wrong @jlw (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=136) , as a patrol carbine. As such the learning the operation of it would include reloading through both the loading gate and ejection port.

Correct. I originally built the class around the concept of using the levergun as a patrol rifle. This was during the panic after the 2008 election and nothing "black" could be found locally.

The class does require a rifle with a loading gate in the receiver. This is so that you can top off the magazine on the fly.

My understanding is that the Henrys can have rounds direct loaded into the chamber; so, at least you could emergency load them.

[jlw]

Any negative to the Trapper in 30-30?

Nope.

[Jeep]

Personally, from the guns I've inspected, I wouldn't go newer than about 2007 on a Marlin purchase unless it was to get some special version (stainless or whatever) that wasn't available earlier, and I like the eighties and nineties guns. Some are partial to the pre-safeties, which means 1982 or so, which leads to them costing a bit more.

I have a .357 Marlin from 2008. Nice rifle. Good workmanship and no problems. The real quality issues apparently came thereafter.

[Malamute]

Any negative to the Trapper in 30-30?

The only thing that comes to mind is they hold one less round than the 20" guns, 5 rds vs 6 in the tube mag, and are a little more muzzle blast, but nothing extreme. Probably seems mild compared to most semi auto carbines with muzzle devices.

[Bigghoss]

Does anyone know anything about the Mossberg 464? They have a 16" stainless .30-30 and the 464 has a tang safety like their shotguns which I like. Just don't know how they stack up against Marlin.

[Lester Polfus]

Does anyone know anything about the Mossberg 464? They have a 16" stainless .30-30 and the 464 has a tang safety like their shotguns which I like. Just don't know how they stack up against Marlin.

I have fondled them only. They feel cheap and rough. Stories abound on the internet of feeding problems.

I've been tempted to try one anyway, but I have enough projects right now. I do like the location of the safety.

[Bigghoss]

I do like the location of the safety.

That is literally the only reason I'm even curious about them.

[Malamute]

That is literally the only reason I'm even curious about them.

The later production 94 Winchesters have a tang safety. Pretty handy, as easy to use as the older Ruger 77s.