SP101 vs. GP100

[jeep45238]

My recent acquisition of a 3" SP101 22LR has seriously peaked my interest in revolvers enough to persue a centerfire companion. There is a potential for carry, with being in the woods all day my biggest threat is stumbling across tweakers on their pot plants or potentially a black bear (unlikely due to location). The main purpose would be shooter development at the range, and potentially working it at IDPA while I work semi-auto at USPSA.

I just can't freaking decide between an SP101 or GP100, as the size gap doesn't appear to be that large in photos. So I'm asking for what people would gravitate towards given the above usage. Hand size is a L glove with M length fingers.

My biggest lessons learned with the J/K series was the sights are nothing like what I can find on a semi auto. My .22LR has an actual rear sight, and it makes a huge difference. If it's possible to get an acceptable sight picture with a front sight replacement and blackening the rear sight trench, I'm considering the 9mm SP101 simply due to the fact that I reload 9mm and this would give more trigger time than saving for a bulk purchase of 38/357

My gut reaction is to get a Wiley Clap model of one of the two, since the sights they come with can't be done without significant aftermarket investment. I just have a problem determining whether to go SP101 or GP100 without having the opportunity to have my hands on anything but a SP101. The Wiley Clapp GP100 is $100 more than the SP101, which is reasonable - and the WC SP101 is about $125 more than the base SP101's.

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't care for the SP101. If I can carry it, I can carry a GP100. If I can't carry a GP100, that's LCR territory.

[entropy]

For a field gun, I would (and have) picked the GP. The SP101 rides in the beltline. Think of the SP as a fat j-frame and the GP to be a chubby K.

[jeep45238]

For a field gun, I would (and have) picked the GP. The SP101 rides in the beltline. Think of the SP as a fat j-frame and the GP to be a chubby K.

For reference, as a field gun it will have to be concealed while wearing a 60-80 pound pack.


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[TicTacticalTimmy]

For general shooting practice I would go with the GP. I had the 4" .357 SP and the grip was just a bit cramped on my fingers, hampering shooting performance. However, I think I have longer fingers than yours so YMMV.

However, a nice compromise between the two would be the SP Match Champion. It has a larger grip than the regular SP and comes with a tuned trigger and nice adjustable sights. It is still a very compact package for a gun that can hit targets with consistency and authority at 100 yards.

The SP was small enough I could carry it in the pocket of my hunting jacket, no way I could do that with a 4" GP. it's a big difference if you care about carrying concealed.

[Bigghoss]

The difference between the SP101 and GP100 is pretty substantial. The SP is based on 5 rounds of .357 magnum and Ruger recently introduced a 7-shot version of the .357 GP100. I used to carry my GP100 as a woods gun until I switched to semiautos for everything.

I recently sold my SP101 as it's kinda heavy for a snubby but I was using it as a pocket gun and the LCR is just plain better for that. If you're going to shoot .357 rounds you'll want to get at least the 3" barrel to take advantage of the extra powder the magnums have.

The only way to really get an understanding of the size and weight is to feel them for yourself.

[mmc45414]

I think some of this decision works backwards from the barrel length, cartridge and also weight (if you are carrying a 70 pound pack does a few ounces of pistol matter or does it mater more?). 357 needs at least the 3" to even approach 357 potential. If you are talking 2" then like BB says, the LCR is lighter and cheaper and smoother out of the box. But I just realized the WCs are 3", so that is where you must be at.

I have a 3" SP, and I really think it is cool (but I am realizing that I think everything I have is really cool... :) ) it is a nice powerful medium size gun. I don't carry it much but will probably start carrying it more on long road trips when I will only be out of the car at gas stops and rest stops and it will be more comfortable seated.

The GP is not that much bigger, but it is bigger, and as a result, heavier. But the 7 round version is maybe a game changer, but that is back to a 2.5" or 4.2" decision, and the 4.2" is a full lug 40oz deal. Seems like the slab side lighter profile Match Champion would be interesting if it were 7 rounds, but they only show it to be 2oz lighter. If they had a 7 round version of the fixed sight GP I would be wanting one, but I sorta want everything.

The SP Match Champ 4.2" is 25% lighter and would give the powder room to burn.

As much as I like my SP if I were doing it again today the 3" LCRx might have to get some consideration.

[entropy]

Depends on how you carry it and how you envision using it. I’ve mostly carried in a waistpack when backpacking. Size of the gun in this case woudnt be an issue. Depending on where you are and the type of mischief youre concerned about maight dictate too. I would want something a bit bigger out West for example. Just a thought.

[Rex G]

The SP 101 is slightly larger than an S&W J-Snub, and just large enough for me to shoot reasonably well, so that I am OK if the largest gun I am carrying is an SP101. There is not much clearance for a speed-loader, but I would rather not remove grip material, because I want every bit of that rubber to stay there, for better control of the weapon, and recoil mitigation. The best speed-load for an SP101 is another gun, at least for me. I really did carry multiple SP101 revolvers, for several years.

The GP100, with the original, pre-Hogue, square-butt OEM grip, fits me better than any handgun I have ever tried. I have read some accounts of the occasional QC issue, but a carefully-selected and vetted GP100 is my idea of the perfect defensive revolving pistol.

These are quite different handguns. The size gap actually IS substantial. Try to handle and test-shoot before making a buying decision.

[coconutdave]

24936
Here is a pic of all three. The 3" GP 100 is my do everything gun. I've shot IDPA with it, carried it on hikes and concealed. But the SP is easier to conceal and the MC is better for competition. So you just have to decide what is most important.

[jeep45238]

I think some of this decision works backwards from the barrel length, cartridge and also weight (if you are carrying a 70 pound pack does a few ounces of pistol matter or does it mater more?). 357 needs at least the 3" to even approach 357 potential. If you are talking 2" then like BB says, the LCR is lighter and cheaper and smoother out of the box. But I just realized the WCs are 3", so that is where you must be at.

As much as I like my SP if I were doing it again today the 3" LCRx might have to get some consideration.

With the packs, it's more along the lines of where the straps are coming down from my shoulders to the pack itself, and how that would impact a hip holster (but that's with any gun). Appendix may or may not work due to the terrain steepness and climbing up it. The terrain could be anything - muck, heavily wooded, 60* inclines, thorns everywhere, marshes and bogs, grasslands - short of something generated by mountains, I'm exposed to it.

Barrel length isn't the most important thing to me, in either shorter or longer. How it carries and how it shoots are my main priorities, as it's primary purpose will be a trainer, and secondary for carry (primary is a P226 for example).

The ease of dissassembly of these Rugers (and stainless construction) make me pretty comfortable if I need to disassemble and reoil in a hotel in the event of going for an unintended swim.


Interesting in this is the 2nd recommendation of the LCR over the SP101 - but the GP100 over both (if feasible)

[mmc45414]

Barrel length isn't the most important thing to me, in either shorter or longer. How it carries and how it shoots are my main priorities, as it's primary purpose will be a trainer, and secondary for carry.

Interesting in this is the 2nd recommendation of the LCR over the SP101 - but the GP100 over both (if feasible)
I just think the LCR is a smoking deal, I cannot find any info on it but I think I remember reading that there is something specific to their action that makes them smooth.

But, considering your criteria, the new 2.5" 7 round version might be cool:
24952
Good sights on a regular grade gun, 40% more ammo than the SP.

[jeep45238]

That... looks very promising.


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[Lester Polfus]

With the packs, it's more along the lines of where the straps are coming down from my shoulders to the pack itself, and how that would impact a hip holster (but that's with any gun). Appendix may or may not work due to the terrain steepness and climbing up it. The terrain could be anything - muck, heavily wooded, 60* inclines, thorns everywhere, marshes and bogs, grasslands - short of something generated by mountains, I'm exposed to it.

Barrel length isn't the most important thing to me, in either shorter or longer. How it carries and how it shoots are my main priorities, as it's primary purpose will be a trainer, and secondary for carry (primary is a P226 for example).

The ease of dissassembly of these Rugers (and stainless construction) make me pretty comfortable if I need to disassemble and reoil in a hotel in the event of going for an unintended swim.


Interesting in this is the 2nd recommendation of the LCR over the SP101 - but the GP100 over both (if feasible)

Have you ever considered a Hill People Gear Kit Bag for carrying with a backpack? I tote a Glock 20 in mine and find it very useful. A 4" GP100 will fit in one.

[jeep45238]

Have you ever considered a Hill People Gear Kit Bag for carrying with a backpack? I tote a Glock 20 in mine and find it very useful. A 4" GP100 will fit in one.

I hadn't looked into it. As with all things, if the habit begins benign, people tend to ignore - but if it randomly begins it starts to draw curiosity. I work with small crews, sometimes from other offices, so it's really their perception of what could be in there that *doesn't* fit in pockets that might create problems.

I'm sure I could come up with uses for having work items in there - it might make sense. Thanks for the suggestion.

[mmc45414]

That... looks very promising.
I want one too. At least YOU have a reason... :)


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[Lester Polfus]

I hadn't looked into it. As with all things, if the habit begins benign, people tend to ignore - but if it randomly begins it starts to draw curiosity. I work with small crews, sometimes from other offices, so it's really their perception of what could be in there that *doesn't* fit in pockets that might create problems.

I'm sure I could come up with uses for having work items in there - it might make sense. Thanks for the suggestion.

Gotcha. I was unaware of those circumstances. I actually use the kit bag even when I'm toting the firearm in a hip holster. It's handy to keep small items close at hand such a GPS, snacks, notebook, etc.

I've been on a couple of backpacking trips where it was in my best interest to be very discreet, and I pocket carried a J-frame on those occasions.

[BN]

The main purpose would be shooter development at the range, and potentially working it at IDPA while I work semi-auto at USPSA.

IDPA Revolver is a 6 round game. That would mean a 6 round GP100. The SP101 only holds 5 rounds and you won't be happy with that in IDPA.

[BehindBlueI's]

I just think the LCR is a smoking deal, I cannot find any info on it but I think I remember reading that there is something specific to their action that makes them smooth.


Per Ruger: Patented friction reducing cam is a next generation design in fire control systems that results in a smooth, non-stacking trigger pull.

https://ruger.com/products/lcr/images/features/FRC.jpg

[jeep45238]

IDPA Revolver is a 6 round game. That would mean a 6 round GP100. The SP101 only holds 5 rounds and you won't be happy with that in IDPA.

I hadn’t thought of that. I’ll check the rule book to see if a 7shot would put me at some disadvantage per class or something. With all the two-shot targets I can see a big benefit to having an even number of chambers.


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[BN]

I hadn’t thought of that. I’ll check the rule book to see if a 7shot would put me at some disadvantage per class or something.

You can only load and fire 6 rounds. A 6 round revolver is definitely needed if you want to succeed.

[jeep45238]

You can only load and fire 6 rounds. A 6 round revolver is definitely needed if you want to succeed.

Thank you. This gives me something to think about on the 7 shot 2.5" with nice sights. IDPA isn't the main purpose, but it is a purpose to get better as a shooter with a revolver.

Looks like I might need to do the 1752 (Wiley Clapp) or the 1763 (3" with brass bead front sight)

[jeep45238]

Can anybody comment on 3” vs 4” for general use and hip carry purposes? The more I’m looking at things, the more I’m stuck between the Wiley Clapp or the cheaper Match Champion offerings. I’m looking at fixed sights either way.

It’s easy enough to change out the grips and take care of that complicating feature, but the barrel isn’t going away.

[mmc45414]

Can anybody comment on 3” vs 4” for general use and hip carry purposes?
Hip carry is probably more of a weight question. Might you ever be stashing it in the pack somewhere? That might favor 3".

[jeep45238]

The packs are herbicide packs, manual and motorized, and hold 4-6 gallons of herbicide, so they can’t carry a thing. This is a straight hip carry, concealed (makes me think 3”)


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[mmc45414]

The packs are herbicide packs, manual and motorized, and hold 4-6 gallons of herbicide, so they can’t carry a thing. This is a straight hip carry, concealed (makes me think 3”)Oh, then I say 3" if OWB, but you might consider the 4" thin barrel if it will be IWB, depending on physique. I think you are younger than me, but in my case having the IWB pivot point behind the belt, having your butt push out to push the grip into your side. In my case, it is a battle between the butt and the gut, and giving the butt a little extra leverage helps... :)

[TheNewbie]

Could ruger make an SP101 in .357/.38 that was 6 rounds without making it much bigger?

[Jim Watson]

Sure, but they called it a Security Six.

Ruger makes the occasional 9mm revolver or you can have one converted.

[mmc45414]

Sure, but they called it a Security Six.
The Speed Six is what the OP (and the rest of us...) is trying to buy :)

[jeep45238]

The Speed Six is what the OP (and the rest of us...) is trying to buy :)

With few exceptions, I try to stick with models currently produced for support and logistical reasons.

If there’s a compelling reason to go with something no longer made, I’m listening, but it has to be a really good reason for me. :-)


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[mmc45414]

If there’s a compelling reason to go with something no longer made, I’m listening, but it has to be a really good reason for me. :-)
I wuz being facetious, Just that everybody, including me, wishes for the "good" ol' days when you could just go buy the stuff that nobody was buying.
25074
But you know, if you are not going to go to the 7 shot, maybe the S&W 66 is an option:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30543-Help-me-build-my-quot-modern-quot-social-revolver

[Stephanie B]

The Speed Six is what the OP (and the rest of us...) is trying to buy :)

I’d be all over a Speed Six if I saw one in the display case.


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[jeep45238]

Not completely out of the picture. A little curious about some issues I’ve read of rims getting jammed up with certain brands of ammo on the 7 shot. Other than that, I’m really struggling between that and the Wiley Clap - the match champion popped up if a 4” is the way to go, but upon reflection I’m having a hard time seeing how it would be better for my purposes.

Spent most of the day debating amongst GP models, and will be taking a GP to the range next Friday - that should settle the GP vs SP as far as handling goes and narrow this down some more.

Also, not having sideplate screws for disassembly in the event of a dunk with the modular components is a huge plus in my mind. Easy to have a screwdriver w/2 bits (grip and a punch) vs. potentially stripping heads or threads.

[BobM]

I’d be all over a Speed Six if I saw one in the display case.


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I had my hands on one last year but the shop was holding for someone who'd already pit down a deposit

[Bushytale]

jeep. if your carrying OWB there is no reason to go shorter than 4 inch. 4 is kind of the optimum barrel length for general purpose revolvers. I started in 1970 with a S&W model 19 4 inch and still feel it is the best choice for all around 38/357 revolver use.
There seems to be a good supply of parts out there for S&W k-frame revolvers from the '60/70/80s. I would not let the fact they are no longer in production be a decision maker for me.

[Bigghoss]

I’d be all over a Speed Six if I saw one in the display case.


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Same. But we're "those" kind of people. I've got a pair of Security Sixes in the safe right now.

Seriously though. Ruger needs to come out with a revolver that size again.

[TheNewbie]

Same. But we're "those" kind of people. I've got a pair of Security Sixes in the safe right now.

Seriously though. Ruger needs to come out with a revolver that size again.

Are the security six guns similar in size to the k-frame?

[Bigghoss]

Are the security six guns similar in size to the k-frame?

Yes. But more durable and less expensive than the equivalent Smiths.

[Stephanie B]

Yes. But more durable and less expensive than the equivalent Smiths.

Indeed. When I see one for sale, it’s about $150 or so cheaper than a Model 19.


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[jeep45238]

jeep. if your carrying OWB there is no reason to go shorter than 4 inch. 4 is kind of the optimum barrel length for general purpose revolvers. I started in 1970 with a S&W model 19 4 inch and still feel it is the best choice for all around 38/357 revolver use.
There seems to be a good supply of parts out there for S&W k-frame revolvers from the '60/70/80s. I would not let the fact they are no longer in production be a decision maker for me.

I doubt that owb will be an option, unfortunately


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[Stephanie B]

Seriously though. Ruger needs to come out with a revolver that size again.

No kidding. I guess they were losing too many sales to the L-frame. But Smith kept both the Ks and Ls in production. Ruger should have done the same. I don't buy the claim that Ruger lost money on every Security Six they sold. It'd take a special kind of stupid to keep making a money-losing product for sixteen years ("we make it up on volume").

[tanner]

I like the SP101 for concealment. Wearing jeans and a t-shirt it virtually disappears.

If I were hiking in the woods I would go with a GP100, either the 7 shot snub or the WC. The larger frame/grip makes it far more shootable with stout loads.

[cclaxton]

The trigger on an SP101 can be better than the GP100 IMHO. The GP has a little bump in it, the 101 is smooth all the way. Your gunsmith experience may vary.

[Drang]

No kidding. I guess they were losing too many sales to the L-frame. But Smith kept both the Ks and Ls in production. Ruger should have done the same. I don't buy the claim that Ruger lost money on every Security Six they sold. It'd take a special kind of stupid to keep making a money-losing product for sixteen years ("we make it up on volume").

They sold a bunch to the Arm, and it takes truly outstanding stupidity to lose money that way.

[Drang]

They sold a bunch to the Army, and it takes truly outstanding stupidity to lose money that way.

Fixed it for myself. :o

[Stephanie B]

They sold a bunch to the Army, and it takes truly outstanding stupidity to lose money that way.

The only reason to not price a gun for the Army to make a decent profit is if you think that by doing so, you'll get the fanbois and cop shops to also buy it.

Exhibit 1: Beretta 92.

[Rex G]

Are the security six guns similar in size to the k-frame?

A Security Six is larger than a K-Frame. A well-made, tightly-fitted K-Frame holster will be too tight for a Security Six. Back in the day, one bought a Python/L-Frame-sized holster for a Security Six.

A Speed Six or Service Six, due to having less metal in the top strap, can squeeze into a K-Frame holster.

[Bigghoss]

A Security Six is larger than a K-Frame. A well-made, tightly-fitted K-Frame holster will be too tight for a Security Six. Back in the day, one bought a Python/L-Frame-sized holster for a Security Six.

A Speed Six or Service Six, due to having less metal in the top strap, can squeeze into a K-Frame holster.

OK but the Security Six is a lot closer in size to a K-frame than to a GP100.

[TheNewbie]

So how much bigger would the SP101 be if they added a 6th chamber? Would it be pointless since we have the GP?

[mmc45414]

So how much bigger would the SP101 be if they added a 6th chamber?I think we are saying it would be the Security Six, that was replaced by the GP-100.

[Bigghoss]

Yup. Pretty much a Security/Service/Speed Six sized gun which is pretty close to a K frame Smith.

If you're looking to buy a new gun a Smith 66 is about as small as you can go with 6 rounds of .357, the Kimber K6S might have a small advantage with the way the cylinder is shaped like a hexagon. If you don't mind buying used I'd say buy a Ruger Six series gun, they can be had for $350 to $550+ depending on model, finish, and barrel length.

Go to the biggest gun store in town and fondle a bunch of stuff because that's the only way to really understand the size and feel of the guns.

[BehindBlueI's]

I see a lot of Security Six talk, but just a reminder:

1) They aren't supported by Ruger any longer (other than probably replacing with a GP100) and repair parts could be more problematic.
2) Limited aftermarket support, front sight and grip are more "you're stuck with OEM" than current production.
3) The trigger is not as good as the GP100. It's entirely usable, don't get me wrong, but the GP100 is better.

I sold my "Six" series for another GP100 and don't miss it. The inth degree of thickness isn't a make or break for me.

[jeep45238]

I see a lot of Security Six talk, but just a reminder:

1) They aren't supported by Ruger any longer (other than probably replacing with a GP100) and repair parts could be more problematic.
2) Limited aftermarket support, front sight and grip are more "you're stuck with OEM" than current production.
3) The trigger is not as good as the GP100. It's entirely usable, don't get me wrong, but the GP100 is better.

I sold my "Six" series for another GP100 and don't miss it. The inth degree of thickness isn't a make or break for me.


That's kinda my feelings behind it - if the GP winds up being to big, a step down to the SP (or if it makes sense, LCR) is fine with me.

[tanner]

That's kinda my feelings behind it - if the GP winds up being to big, a step down to the SP (or if it makes sense, LCR) is fine with me.

FWIW, if I were planning on using stout loads, I would remove the LCR from consideration. I have a LCR in 9mm and standard pressure loads are right on the edge of what I want to shoot through it.

[Bigghoss]

I see a lot of Security Six talk, but just a reminder:

1) They aren't supported by Ruger any longer (other than probably replacing with a GP100) and repair parts could be more problematic.
2) Limited aftermarket support, front sight and grip are more "you're stuck with OEM" than current production.
3) The trigger is not as good as the GP100. It's entirely usable, don't get me wrong, but the GP100 is better.

I sold my "Six" series for another GP100 and don't miss it. The inth degree of thickness isn't a make or break for me.

I can't argue those points but Houge and Pachmayr both offer grips for it and a Wolff spring kit and a set of shims makes a nice improvement on the trigger. I currently own a 4" GP100 and 4" and 2.75" Security Sixes. The 4" Security Six will probably get sold here soon but that has more to do with my waning interest in wheelguns than it's viability as a sidearm. The GP100 will eventually get sold to get a 7-shot GP100 or an 8-shot .357 Redhawk.

[WheelGunMan]

The SP 101 is slightly larger than an S&W J-Snub, and just large enough for me to shoot reasonably well, so that I am OK if the largest gun I am carrying is an SP101. There is not much clearance for a speed-loader, but I would rather not remove grip material, because I want every bit of that rubber to stay there, for better control of the weapon, and recoil mitigation. The best speed-load for an SP101 is another gun, at least for me. I really did carry multiple SP101 revolvers, for several years.

The GP100, with the original, pre-Hogue, square-butt OEM grip, fits me better than any handgun I have ever tried. I have read some accounts of the occasional QC issue, but a carefully-selected and vetted GP100 is my idea of the perfect defensive revolving pistol.

These are quite different handguns. The size gap actually IS substantial. Try to handle and test-shoot before making a buying decision.

Interesting that you say that. I have a SP101 Spurless with Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips that I use in timed competition with speedloaders and have never had a problem. Use those same speedloaders on my LCR and it's a little tight but still doable.

[jeep45238]

I don't care for the SP101. If I can carry it, I can carry a GP100. If I can't carry a GP100, that's LCR territory.

After using both, I wound up buying a LCR at a good price (9mm - makes my ammo logistics simple since I reload 9mm by volume). This pretty much kicks the SP101 out of the equation, enough so that I'll probably be selling my .22LR SP101 to fund the right GP100.

Thank you all for your feedback and opinion.

[Rex G]

Interesting that you say that. I have a SP101 Spurless with Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips that I use in timed competition with speedloaders and have never had a problem. Use those same speedloaders on my LCR and it's a little tight but still doable.

I was not using Pachmayr grips, but the OEM Ruger grips. Presumbly, your Pachmayrs were molded to give more clearance to speed loaders. I have generally avoided Pachmayr grips on deep-concealment weapons, as clothing tends to cling to them.

[WheelGunMan]

I was not using Pachmayr grips, but the OEM Ruger grips. Presumbly, your Pachmayrs were molded to give more clearance to speed loaders. I have generally avoided Pachmayr grips on deep-concealment weapons, as clothing tends to cling to them.

Actually the Pachmayr Diamond Pro's are a little stouter than the factory grips. That's why your statement surprised me.

I carry an LCR .357 as my EDC and I tried a set of the Diamond Pro's on it with similar "grabby" results plus they changed my grip alignment to where I was shooting way off point of aim..

[TheNewbie]

If you have smaller hands, what kind of grips would you look at for the GP100?

[BehindBlueI's]

If you have smaller hands, what kind of grips would you look at for the GP100?

Ruger has compact grips. http://shopruger.com/Rubber-Grips-with-Rosewood-Inserts-Compact/productinfo/70084/

They are a bit shorter and don't widen as much near the bottom. I don't think they reduce length for trigger reach, though I've never actually measured.