Lake Arthur NM in the news

[GJM]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-28/robert-mercer-s-secret-adventure-as-a-new-mexico-cop

[ssb]

Last year there was a bit of a blow-up involving one of the guys from the P&S crowd. As I recall, part of the internet's blow-up involved that gentleman's LEOSA creds stemming from Lake Arthur.

[HCM]

Last year there was a bit of a blow-up involving one of the guys from the P&S crowd. As I recall, part of the internet's blow-up involved that gentleman's LEOSA creds stemming from Lake Arthur.

Said individual fall into the "Several are among the most elite soldiers on Earth" category rather than the wealthy dilettante crowd.

On another note, Mercer has the money and political connections to get a carry permit in both Suffolk County NY and NYC, but that's still not as handy as LEOSA.

[Drang]

Well, one thing about Trump, the media have remembered that their role in life is not to be lickspittle lackeys for the president.

Too bad we have no reason to believe they won't fall back into that mode when one of the right people occupies the Oval Office.

[MichaelD]

Ugh. I didn't even look at the link and didn't realize it was Bloomberg until I was already on the page. I feel dirty for even having visited the place.

[HCM]

Ugh. I didn't even look at the link and didn't realize it was Bloomberg until I was already on the page. I feel dirty for even having visited the place.

Mercer seems like he is the "Anti Bloomberg" - a wealthy NY business man who believes in guns.

[Dagga Boy]

Said individual fall into the "Several are among the most elite soldiers on Earth" category rather than the wealthy dilettante crowd.

On another note, Mercer has the money and political connections to get a carry permit in both Suffolk County NY and NYC, but that's still not as handy as LEOSA.

Does not matter. It’s pure unadulterated crap. No Backgroynd, psych, poly, Real Academy and an FTO program.....you ain’t a cop in my world. This is simply selling something many of us paid dearly for. How about all those folks who did a reserve program right and don’t have this status. I have likely spent more time training with top tier military folks on ranges and facilities your average grunt will never see....so do I get to claim military status for hanging around with the right people? Not a chance, because without an oath and boot camp....you ain’t in that club. Mine works the same way.

I wonder if those elite military folks would feel the same way if a rich dude or some connected guy spends a few hours “training” and a couple days a year hanging out and then get to wear a SEAL Trident or a Green Beret would be okay with that?

[blues]

^^^Couldn't have said it better, DB. It's a purchased commodity whatever their accomplishments may be in other realms, endeavors or fields of honor.

[wvincent]

So, does he actually qualify for LEOSA?

Hopefully this attention won't create issues for all the solid folks who actually put their time in.

[TGS]

So, does he actually qualify for LEOSA?


Yes, 100%.

LEOSA does not discriminate based on employment status (full time, part time, volunteer reserve, etc).

[wvincent]

Yes, 100%.

LEOSA does not discriminate based on employment status (full time, part time, volunteer reserve, etc).

Thanks.
Somehow I just don't see this ending well, I truthfully hope I'm wrong.

[RoyGBiv]

Where do I sign up?

[TGS]

Thanks.
Somehow I just don't see this ending well, I truthfully hope I'm wrong.

If the topic became a hot topic national issue, I think the onus would fall on the state to preempt reserve program requirements.

New Jersey is an extremely nepotistic, old-world Italian politic style state composed of what are essentially city-state style fiefdoms that are incorrectly titled "municipalities". The state got around unethical badge issue by preempting classes of police officers within the state Constitution, and a statutory requirement that part time police officers (Class 2 Special LEOs) not only attend a "real" police academy, but also that they are required to work a minimum amount of hours per month (25 per month, if I recall).

The last vestige of political badge hand-me-outs is the New Jersey Detectives Agency, which are chartered by the state to empower 24 volunteer individuals with vague policing powers, with no explicit authority to carry firearms. That's an interesting "agency" full of controversy. (Pro tip: if your agency requires you to obtain a CCW permit, you're probably not a real cop.....)

[willie]

Handing out badges to sheriff office reserves historically has been common in the deep South. I never knew reserves, though, who carried off duty because it would have been "too much trouble". They saw the badge's perk as being able to have a handgun in one's vehicle when a handgun had prohibited weapon status. NYC, NJ, and similar places would be the last places that I as an out of state person would carry a handgun regardless of who said it was legal. I'd fear the payback and bias that might be thown at me because those in charge resented the fact that I could carry.

[Dagga Boy]

This will have zero impact on LEOSA, but might change they way some reserve programs are operated. I’ve known a lot of guys with badges from small departments like Lake Arthur, I’m sure a sizable chunk of our membership does too.

If folks went through a real process, I have no issues. In this case and places where the process is skirted as a political or economic or status favor...that is called corruption and totally unethical. The State AG and the Feds should be doing a proctologist exam on this “Chief”.

I know of Reserves who have gone through the full process and served for decades in major departments and don’t get LEOSA creds. I have seen firsthand the shitbirds that have been given Lake Arthur badges and totally abused the system on things more than LEOSA. Anybody want your records given to a Lake Arthur Police Officer who requests records and background info? Is that okay too? This is exactly how LE loses stuff, to play cops with Badges out of a Cracker Jack box.

[TheNewbie]

Oddly enough I do not believe LEOSA applies to Railroad Police or Private College police. Even if they are considered peace officers by the state with full arrest powers. If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

[HCM]

Does not matter. It’s pure unadulterated crap. No Backgroynd, psych, poly, Real Academy and an FTO program.....you ain’t a cop in my world. This is simply selling something many of us paid dearly for. How about all those folks who did a reserve program right and don’t have this status. I have likely spent more time training with top tier military folks on ranges and facilities your average grunt will never see....so do I get to claim military status for hanging around with the right people? Not a chance, because without an oath and boot camp....you ain’t in that club. Mine works the same way.

I wonder if those elite military folks would feel the same way if a rich dude or some connected guy spends a few hours “training” and a couple days a year hanging out and then get to wear a SEAL Trident or a Green Beret would be okay with that?

I never said they were real Po-lice.

There are plenty of shennigans over who can and cannot carry under LEOSA, the US Coast Guard situation being a prime example.

The Lake Arthur thing is a LEOSA loophole for a bunch of dudes who should have their own version of LEOSA, but don’t.

Keep in mind the article is a Bloomberg hit piece.

[HCM]

Oddly enough I do not believe LEOSA applies to Railroad Police or Private College police. Even if they are considered peace officers by the state with full arrest powers. If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

It would be a matter of case law depending on whether they meet the definition of “Government” or “Public Agency” “employees”

[RevolverRob]

I know of Reserves who have gone through the full process and served for decades in major departments and don’t get LEOSA creds.

This I think it a key issue, setting aside the Lake Arthur PD stuff. Part of the issue is definitely that some states don't require the same degree of training for reserves vs. full-time/part-time officers.

Texas, for instance (I know DB knows this, but others may not) requires every officer, full-time, part-time, volunteer, reserve, SRO, college cop, etc. to be certified by the Texas Commission for Law Enforcement Officer Standards Education (TCLEOSE). This means that making someone a "reserve" isn't just a matter of the Chief signing off - and I think - it reduces the potential for abuses, like those shown here.

[Dagga Boy]

I never said they were real Po-lice.

There are plenty of shennigans over who can and cannot carry under LEOSA, the US Coast Guard situation being a prime example.

The Lake Arthur thing is a LEOSA loophole for a bunch of dudes who should have their own version of LEOSA, but donÂ’t.

Keep in mind the article is a Bloomberg hit piece.

Wrong. Yes we all know a bunch of people in the firearms industry who have Lake Arthur badges. A few should have some sort of LEOSA type status. Fine......it’s called Congress, fix it. If USSOCOM wanted this status for their folks....they have the political clout to get it, especially now. Many of the badge holders at Lake Arthur are acting as real police. I have been on this Lake Arthur bullshit for years because of phone calls I started getting about their “officers” requesting info that is highly sensitive and privledged from JTTF, requesting criminal history’s and backgrounds, etc. guys rolling around with NFA stuff in their vehicles in case of a “SWAT callout”. Guys in the training industry getting contracts and business because they have “Reserve Police Officer” or “Current Law Enforcement” on their resumé.
Anyone who is okay with this should have been okay with the NY cops who were essentially selling concealed weapons permits. I mean all those wealthy Orthodox Jews and rich business folks like Donald Trump should have had concealed permits, so what is wrong with the police helping out for a little funding for some poor underpaid cops. It’s corruption and they were prosecuted. Even if the failing New York Times does the hit piece, it is still wrong. With the current anti police, anti NRA/gun owner sentiments by the liberal left, should we be feeding their media machine with easy meat?

This is a stain on my profession. This is people pissing on a profession I love, and they cheapen it to something you can buy and not earn. When a high profile member of the firearms world got in his only CONUS shooting by shooting a relative while intoxicated with a negligent discharge, did the newspaper and media headlines say “former elite Army special operations soldier shoots relative while drunk”, or “police officer shoots relative while drunk” It was the later, and disparaged my profession not his.

Law Enforcement loses things that are good tools for their mission because of abuse. I take following both the letter and spirit of the law very seriously when it came to everything from obtaining search warrants, detaining people, arrest, asset forfeiture, obtaining evidence, etc. When things like asset forfeiture are abused, we lose it and we should. I have seen disgusting abuses in my time of many things. Just because we like some of the folks doing the abuses, does not make it okay. Just because a story was published by Bloomberg instead of the Wall Street Journal does not make it okay. The reason Texas requires everybody to be State certified now is because of the buddy badge abuses of the past. This is a antiquated corrupt practice that should be eliminated.

If we need a DelatSealNijaTeam12 Safety Act, pass one. If we need a SuperRicPrivledged Person Safety Act, pass one. Handing out badges to unqualified individuals to address LEOSA shenanigans is hurting getting the system fixed not helping.

[LtDave]

It would be a matter of case law depending on whether they meet the definition of “Government” or “Public Agency” “employees”

Railroad cops work for private companies, so they are not government or public agency employees. They do have some interstate authority/jurisdiction in states where their railroad operates, but once retired, pretty sure not eligible for LEOSA. LtDave was a Southern Pacific RR cop in the early ‘80’s. One of the most dangerous LE jobs out there.

[TheNewbie]

Railroad cops work for private companies, so they are not government or public agency employees. They do have some interstate authority/jurisdiction in states where their railroad operates, but once retired, pretty sure not eligible for LEOSA. LtDave was a Southern Pacific RR cop in the early ‘80’s. One of the most dangerous LE jobs out there.

In Texas a peace officer from the railroad or a private college can get a retired peace officer license. This would allow them to carry like any other retired peace officer within the state. However, I would not want to be the case law test case as it relates to LEOSA.

What was the rail road cop job like? Was it more/less/same politics wise vs a regular agency?

[LtDave]

In Texas a peace officer from the railroad or a private college can get a retired peace officer license. This would allow them to carry like any other retired peace officer within the state. However, I would not want to be the case law test case as it relates to LEOSA.

What was the rail road cop job like? Was it more/less/same politics wise vs a regular agency?

Not really any politics I was aware of, but I was young and it was my first full time LE job (I had been a reserve cop for a couple years for a SoCal municipality, didn't have much political involvement as a reserve). Priority was protecting company assets, not making arrests or taking law enforcement action. Very dangerous, working solo most of the time a long way from nearest RR backup, radio system was problematic, once out of local train yards, had to rely on radio telephone. Sometimes, you couldn't get the operator to answer. Always working around/climbing on heavy equipment, often in the dark. Railroad cars get shoved around a rail yard and don't make a lot of noise. Easy to get hurt if you are not paying attention. Virtually all the people you came in contact with were either crazy, illegal, or felons. Rail yards and right of ways often in really nasty parts of town, probably why you had those sorts of "citizen" contacts. Pay was comparable to local agencies in SoCal at the time, but the retirement was not nearly as good. In many states, railroad cops were among the best paid, but the job was heavily unionized. When you hired on, you got a job #, which was your work assignment and days off. You would work that job # until someone with more seniority bumped you off of it or you got enough seniority to bump someone. My job was working a truck terminal gate with Tuesday and Wednesday off on graveyard shift. I could have been there for years before getting to bid on a better job. Getting hired was hard, if you didn't know someone, you likely had no chance. Luckily, I got introduced to the right guy and got the job.

[CWM11B]

What DB said in both his posts. In spades. To quote a great friend of mine "You don't dabble in police work". This is the recipe for crippling case law and loss of effective tools due to the actions of someone with no skin in the game. With the average Joe copper, if they screw the pooch they lose their livlihood. Is billionaire dude or highly paid contractor going to be out anything but their pretend status? Like DB, (and many here I suspect) I've trained along side of some really high speed dudes. Shot just as well, and in many cases better. I can't use that to get a job instructing at some of the places I've applied to because I am not former SOF. No problem. I didn't go to BUDS or the Q Course. My two DD214s are unremarkable. But the same should apply to those guys (whom I have the UTMOST respect for, call several friend, and occasionally still do "stuff" with). Just like I have no claim to know their job, they have no claim to mine unless they did it for real. I know plenty who have done just that, and they are great assests. They will be the first to tell their former colleagues to STFU about domestic LE ops too. It drives me nuts to hear former SF comment on what I did for a career like they are an authority. There was a former high speed guy local to me who took an internet beat down when he commented about a high profile case involving a deadly force issue. In another occasion, I was in an open enrollment course when a young MARSOC Officer started lecturing on a break about no knock warrants (this was after the controversial shooting of a Marine vet by LE). A couple of younger cops tried to engage, and he got downright belligerant. I just looked him in the eye and asked how many search warrants he got the PC for, drafted, attested to and swore under oath to a judicial official for accuracy and truthfulness, and then executed with all the restraint possible to avoid anyone on either team getting shot. None, that's how many. I may or may not have made some snide comment about not being able to announce my presence with a fragmentation grenade with a follow on mag dump in the room.

[Dagga Boy]

This is like the Clinton Foundation. Everyone you talk to who has a badge from this dump will drivel on about giving back to the LE community, helping out the poor town of Lake Arthur, making it safer for the one cop in Lake Arthur....blah, blah, blah. Easy question, if the job came with no badge and LEOSA carry would they still do it out of their deep feelings to help? I very much doubt it.

I volunteer and train an SRT team in a small rural place in Texas. They need the help and training. I ride with their guys. I have a badge.....that comes with no arrest powers or carry privileges. I simply use my own time and gas and money to help a bunch of dudes I truly like. They want me to be a sworn reserve. I want to as well. I just need to find the time and make the commitment to do a full academy AGAIN to do that. I am still doing the work without the LEOSA or LE status. Take the LEOSA status and LE status away and if these folks are still going to Lake Arthur, I will give them all the credit in the world. If not.....it is as I suspect.

[wvincent]

This is like the Clinton Foundation. Everyone you talk to who has a badge from this dump will drivel on about giving back to the LE community, helping out the poor town of Lake Arthur, making it safer for the one cop in Lake Arthur....blah, blah, blah. Easy question, if the job came with no badge and LEOSA carry would they still do it out of their deep feelings to help? I very much doubt it.

I volunteer and train an SRT team in a small rural place in Texas. They need the help and training. I ride with their guys. I have a badge.....that comes with no arrest powers or carry privileges. I simply use my own time and gas and money to help a bunch of dudes I truly like. They want me to be a sworn reserve. I want to as well. I just need to find the time and make the commitment to do a full academy AGAIN to do that. I am still doing the work without the LEOSA or LE status. Take the LEOSA status and LE status away and if these folks are still going to Lake Arthur, I will give them all the credit in the world. If not.....it is as I suspect.

Actions > words. Always.

[Kevin B.]

Enlightening thread.

[CWM11B]

To expand on DB's last post: If it is about helping out the small department that is understaffed and under funded, do they not have any agencies that fit that bill close to their actual home? I can find several less than an hour's drive from my house without going all the way across the country. In fact, I'm doing it for a campus PD in the city I retired from. They are holding my certification for me in exchange for training at no cost. I'm covered by LEOSA if I want it, and my NC CCH permit. NC makes LEOSA a major PITA, so I do benefit by being sworn again. I paid the dues, however, by working one of our state's most violent cities for nearly 25 years. Not a hero or anything thousands of others haven't done. Just making a point

[TheNewbie]

This is like the Clinton Foundation. Everyone you talk to who has a badge from this dump will drivel on about giving back to the LE community, helping out the poor town of Lake Arthur, making it safer for the one cop in Lake Arthur....blah, blah, blah. Easy question, if the job came with no badge and LEOSA carry would they still do it out of their deep feelings to help? I very much doubt it.

I volunteer and train an SRT team in a small rural place in Texas. They need the help and training. I ride with their guys. I have a badge.....that comes with no arrest powers or carry privileges. I simply use my own time and gas and money to help a bunch of dudes I truly like. They want me to be a sworn reserve. I want to as well. I just need to find the time and make the commitment to do a full academy AGAIN to do that. I am still doing the work without the LEOSA or LE status. Take the LEOSA status and LE status away and if these folks are still going to Lake Arthur, I will give them all the credit in the world. If not.....it is as I suspect.

Do you not have LEOSA status from California?

Also, do you need to go to a full academy? I am not sure when you retired, but you might check this out.

https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/out-state-peace-officers

In Oklahoma you can serve with an agency for 1 year without going to the academy. Don't want to go to the academy? Switch agencies, and it starts all over again.

[Ed L]

They want me to be a sworn reserve. I want to as well. I just need to find the time and make the commitment to do a full academy AGAIN to do that. I am still doing the work without the LEOSA or LE status.

1. Wouldn't your previous experience and training and successful completion of the academy satisfy the academy part?

2. Is it realistic to expect older retired guys who went through the academy and had lots of in the field experience and injuries to do the physical part of an academy to be a reserve cop under TCLOSE? It would seem that there should be an abreviated version the covers TX Laws and procedures and such.

[TheNewbie]

1. Wouldn't your previous experience and training and successful completion of the academy satisfy the academy part?

2. Is it realistic to expect older retired guys who went through the academy and had lots of in the field experience and injuries to do the physical part of an academy to be a reserve cop under TCLOSE? It would seem that there should be an abreviated version the covers TX Laws and procedures and such.

There is, but you have to meet certain requirements. One of them being you had to serve for two consecutive years within 4 years of applying for reciprocity.

[TGS]

In Oklahoma you can serve with an agency for 1 year without going to the academy.

I wonder how many states still allow cops to work without attending an academy.

That reminds me of a guy I went to college with who is a sheriff's deputy in Vermont. Atleast as of a couple years ago he worked as a part timer/reserve deputy because he can't pass the PFT for the academy which was required for full timers, but not part timers. Up until 2012 the state Constitution also allowed towns in Vermont to appoint/elect a Constable which has LE powers but essentially no requirements for obtaining the position.....that changed in 2012, and they require an academy for full timers or the same abbreviated 1+ week "academy" for part timers.

[HCM]

Do you not have LEOSA status from California?

Also, do you need to go to a full academy? I am not sure when you retired, but you might check this out.

https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/out-state-peace-officers

In Oklahoma you can serve with an agency for 1 year without going to the academy. Don't want to go to the academy? Switch agencies, and it starts all over again.

I know a few guys who retired from the Feds and went this route, becoming TX Peace Officers but if I recall correctly you must do it within 4 years of retiring or otherwise leaving your last full time LE job.

THey are all working full time gigs, though usually as investigators and courthouse Deputies.

Many Texas Officers will become reserves when the retire in order to retain their commission / license.

[TheNewbie]

A fear I have is real reserves (meaning those who went through a full academy/FTO) are going to get screwed over, and/or there will be some increased federal regulations on how peace officers are appointed in each state.

[HCM]

A fear I have is real reserves (meaning those who went through a full academy/FTO) are going to get screwed over, and/or there will be some increased federal regulations on how peace officers are appointed in each state.

AFAIK there are no such federal regulations. It is a State issue.

I was surprised to hear about OK and VT still allowing officers to work without an academy. There can’t be too many states left which allow that.

[TheNewbie]

AFAIK there are no such federal regulations. It is a State issue.

I was surprised to hear about OK and VT still allowing officers to work without an academy. There can’t be too many states left which allow that.

Right, I am just afraid that it might come to that if some of this stuff gets too much attention. Hopefully I am wrong.

One interesting thing in Texas. You cannot work off duty security as a Peace Officer unless you are full time (32 hours/more) and are eligible for benefits. This prevents people from getting a peace officer license just so they can be and reserve making big money working security jobs. I think this was a problem way back with Harris County Constables, but not sure how true that is.

[HCM]

Right, I am just afraid that it might come to that if some of this stuff gets too much attention. Hopefully I am wrong.

One interesting thing in Texas. You cannot work off duty security as a Peace Officer unless you are full time (32 hours/more) and are eligible for benefits. This prevents people from getting a peace officer license just so they can be and reserve making big money working security jobs. I think this was a problem way back with Harris County Constables, but not sure how true that is.

I’m sure it was a problem at some point or they wouldn’t have the rule. Sad but there are still places guys make more on off duty gigs than they do on their actual job.

I fact I’ve heard of guys who are former LE illegally working side gigs in their old uniform and getting arrested for it.

[TheNewbie]

I’m sure it was a problem at some point. Sad but there are still places guys make more on off duty gigs than they do on their actual job.

I fact I’ve heard of guys who are former LE illegally working side gigs in their old uniform and getting arrested for it.

I knew one. Took a guy to jail supposedly. WTF???

[andre3k]

Right, I am just afraid that it might come to that if some of this stuff gets too much attention. Hopefully I am wrong.

One interesting thing in Texas. You cannot work off duty security as a Peace Officer unless you are full time (32 hours/more) and are eligible for benefits. This prevents people from getting a peace officer license just so they can be and reserve making big money working security jobs. I think this was a problem way back with Harris County Constables, but not sure how true that is.

That is exactly what people are still doing. Most of the guys working motorcycle escorts and road jobs, in Harris county at least, are reserves at smaller agencies. Supposedly with escorts and road jobs you're directing traffic and not necessarily providing "security". In the Houston area there's no shortage of either type of work and that's why they flock to it.

[TheNewbie]

That is exactly what people are still doing. Most of the guys working motorcycle escorts and road jobs, in Harris county at least, are reserves at smaller agencies. Supposedly with escorts and road jobs you're directing traffic and not necessarily providing "security". In the Houston area there's no shortage of either type of work and that's why they flock to it.

I have heard people talk about it but I didn't know reserves were actually doing it. Why not just be a full time cop and skip the unneeded gray areas?

[Dagga Boy]

I know a few guys who retired from the Feds and went this route, becoming TX Peace Officers but if I recall correctly you must do it within 4 years of retiring or otherwise leaving your last full time LE job.

THey are all working full time gigs, though usually as investigators and courthouse Deputies.

Many Texas Officers will become reserves when the retire in order to retain their commission / license.

Yep. I have been retired for ten years. I went out on a full medical and was still fairly jacked up medically up to a few years ago where ever returning to cop work was a non starter as I would have been a hazard to everyone around me in some instances. In the last couple of years I started getting some feeling back in my foot that was basically dead for about seven years. I have more ability now and could likely grit through an academy. In 1988 I went through one of the toughest academies in the country that prides itself in drop out ratios not success ratios. I am a bit scarred from that. I am at the point where I have a LEOSA ID that was earned, held an Advanced POST from CALIFORNIA, and am battling the weight of going through a full academy to work for free. I figure if I do the academy, I want a paying job when it is over. So, I do basically what the Lake Arthur “reserves” are doing. Ride with the guys, and provide training. It just doesn’t come with any benefit other than the satisfaction of being part of an LE family with no other perks. Texas is very serious about how they certify cops because if “buddy badge” abuses. We are in a very different time with very different risks to agencies and for the perception of LE in general. Simply look at the biggest news headlines about Lake Arthur PD. It isn’t anything I would call positive.

Some things in life need to be earned and not bought for a lot of reasons. I wonder if the former Mil guys carrying Lake Arthur PD badges would be okay with “the fight people” getting badged into their old units without passing even basic boot camp? Is there a price that you can simply pay for a SEAL Trident, a Green Beret, or how do we feel about folks wearing a “Once a Marine always a Marine” shirt because they “hung out a lot” at Camp Pendleton. If it is totally cool, I need to get on Amazon and order some military bling.

[AMC]

Yep. I have been retired for ten years. I went out on a full medical and was still fairly jacked up medically up to a few years ago where ever returning to cop work was a non starter as I would have been a hazard to everyone around me in some instances. In the last couple of years I started getting some feeling back in my foot that was basically dead for about seven years. I have more ability now and could likely grit through an academy. In 1988 I went through one of the toughest academies in the country that prides itself in drop out ratios not success ratios. I am a bit scarred from that. I am at the point where I have a LEOSA ID that was earned, held an Advanced POST from CALIFORNIA, and am battling the weight of going through a full academy to work for free. I figure if I do the academy, I want a paying job when it is over. So, I do basically what the Lake Arthur “reserves” are doing. Ride with the guys, and provide training. It just doesn’t come with any benefit other than the satisfaction of being part of an LE family with no other perks. Texas is very serious about how they certify cops because if “buddy badge” abuses. We are in a very different time with very different risks to agencies and for the perception of LE in general. Simply look at the biggest news headlines about Lake Arthur PD. It isn’t anything I would call positive.

Some things in life need to be earned and not bought for a lot of reasons. I wonder if the former Mil guys carrying Lake Arthur PD badges would be okay with “the fight people” getting badged into their old units without passing even basic boot camp? Is there a price that you can simply pay for a SEAL Trident, a Green Beret, or how do we feel about folks wearing a “Once a Marine always a Marine” shirt because they “hung out a lot” at Camp Pendleton. If it is totally cool, I need to get on Amazon and order some military bling.

Don't do it, dude. I cannot imagine that it would be worth it in the end. You've got your own company, you're your own boss.....you're giving back on your terms. You and I both know that just because the Chief LEO at whatever agency you're helping out is a 10-8 door kicker now.... eventually some dickwad windowlicker will be in that position. I've got 3 3/4 years to go....and I have no intention of ever getting back in the pool. The water isn't fine, and it's getting colder every day.

ETA: And in regards to some military folks transitioning into full time LE work...some don't really adapt all that well, including SOF folks. It's a really different job, and I see a lot of guys coming back from doing stuff overseas who see too much of the LE job as stupid bullshit that shouldn't apply to them. They may be very impressive warfighters, but some of the ones I'm personally aquainted with aren't very good cops.

[Dagga Boy]

Don't do it, dude. I cannot imagine that it would be worth it in the end. You've got your own company, you're your own boss.....you're giving back on your terms. You and I both know that just because the Chief LEO at whatever agency you're helping out is a 10-8 door kicker now.... eventually some dickwad windowlicker will be in that position. I've got 3 3/4 years to go....and I have no intention of ever getting back in the pool. The water isn't fine, and it's getting colder every day.

ETA: And in regards to some military folks transitioning into full time LE work...some don't really adapt all that well, including SOF folks. It's a really different job, and I see a lot of guys coming back from doing stuff overseas who see too much of the LE job as stupid bullshit that shouldn't apply to them. They may be very impressive warfighters, but some of the ones I'm personally aquainted with aren't very good cops.

Funny......so earlier today I was talking to an off-duty deputy that works for me on he day job. He has dove in deep with a Search & Rescue team. Based on talking to him, and looking at their needs in some specialized stuff like Crime scene work, mantracking and helicopter stuff, I think both my wife and I could be an asset to their organization and will likely head down that road. I figure I already did the hard stuff on the LE side, have as much creds. as I ll ever need and training the SRT Guys is probably as deep as I really need to get my foot back in the game.

[UNM1136]

DB,

Our local Schutzhund club just certified a cadaver/search and rescue dog and a search and rescue dog for the next county up. The training director is Master Instructor and Canine SME for the state. What I am learning about handling a S&R canine is very interesting...

I can also put the "Do Not Pet" placard on my plate carrier at my day....er night job.

pat

[Dagga Boy]

http://www.krqe.com/news/investigations/larry-barker/playing-cop-the-lake-arthur-badge-scheme/1143209880#

A lot of names are missing from the roster. Some smart enough to see a train wreck, others because of likely abuse before the current spotlight. I know a bunch, and worked with several on details.

[richiecotite]

I have no involvement in the firearms industry, and I recognize a few names on that list.

Seems to be a local enough issue that it probably won’t affect the “reserve officers”

[Casual Friday]

I recognized way more names on that list than I thought I would.

The more notable ones:

Dan Bilzerian
Chuck Pressburg
Jason Falla
Mark Larue
Duane Liptak
Marcus Luttrell
Royce Gracie
Royler Gracie

[blues]

I recognized way more names on that list than I thought I would.

The more notable ones:

Dan Bilzerian
Chuck Pressburg
Jason Falla
Mark Larue
Duane Liptak
Marcus Luttrell
Royce Gracie
Royler Gracie

Pathetic.

[WobblyPossum]

I was actually surprised by how many of the names on that list I recognized. Lake Arthur really was a badge factory and it kind of ticks me off. All it took to get LE credentials was $400 a year as long as you were someone the chief thought was a cool guy?


–————————————————
My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

[TheNewbie]

I recognized way more names on that list than I thought I would.

The more notable ones:

Dan Bilzerian
Chuck Pressburg
Jason Falla
Mark Larue
Duane Liptak
Marcus Luttrell
Royce Gracie
Royler Gracie

I recognize most of those names, but who are Falla, Liptak, and Pressburg ?

[blues]

I recognize most of those names, but who are Falla, Liptak, and Pressburg ?

Pressburg (http://projects.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/35702240-75/man-who-shot-brother-in-law-in-the-leg-gets-18-months-of-probation.html.csp) (Roland Special)

[TheNewbie]

Pressburg (http://projects.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/35702240-75/man-who-shot-brother-in-law-in-the-leg-gets-18-months-of-probation.html.csp) (Roland Special)


Ahhh yes.

[Casual Friday]

I recognize most of those names, but who are Falla, Liptak, and Pressburg ?

Duane Liptak is the Magpul guy.

Jason Falla is from Redback One and he was on one of LAV's shows back in the day.

[Drang]

I'm kinda surprised Steven Segal isn't on that list... :rolleyes:

[Sensei]

I recognized way more names on that list than I thought I would.

The more notable ones:

Dan Bilzerian
Chuck Pressburg
Jason Falla
Mark Larue
Duane Liptak
Marcus Luttrell
Royce Gracie
Royler Gracie

I think that you missed the most notable name - Rob O’Neill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._O'Neill_(U.S._Navy_SEAL)

I stand by my comments from the Chris Kyle thread in 2014 - there are far too many people tarnishing their wartime service with lies and shady bullshit designed to make a buck or gain special favor. I have no problem with everyone on that list facing federal bribery and corruption charges. Besides, I switched to Bobro and ADM mounts a long time ago...

[TC215]

I saw a James Patterson on that list, as well. Wonder if that’s the author.

[Casual Friday]

I think that you missed the most notable name - Rob O’Neill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._O'Neill_(U.S._Navy_SEAL)

I stand by my comments from the Chris Kyle thread in 2014 - there are far too many people tarnishing their wartime service with lies and shady bullshit designed to make a buck or gain special favor. I have no problem with everyone on that list facing federal bribery and corruption charges. Besides, I switched to Bobro and ADM mounts a long time ago...

I skimmed through the list and only grabbed the names that stuck out to me. But yeah, him too.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm kinda surprised Steven Segal isn't on that list... :rolleyes:

There are other places. I have heard rumor of one in Louisiana and of course Sheriff Joe’s posse is interesting.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm kinda surprised Steven Segal isn't on that list... :rolleyes:

There are other places. I have heard rumor of one in Louisiana and of course Sheriff Joe’s posse is interesting.

[Casual Friday]

I think that you missed the most notable name - Rob O’Neill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._O'Neill_(U.S._Navy_SEAL)

I stand by my comments from the Chris Kyle thread in 2014 - there are far too many people tarnishing their wartime service with lies and shady bullshit designed to make a buck or gain special favor. I have no problem with everyone on that list facing federal bribery and corruption charges. Besides, I switched to Bobro and ADM mounts a long time ago...

I skimmed through the list and only grabbed the names that stuck out to me. But yeah, him too.

[HCM]

I'm kinda surprised Steven Segal isn't on that list... :rolleyes:

It’s not exactly a secret he was a reserve in Louisiana -

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1329291/

[AMC]

I'm kinda surprised Steven Segal isn't on that list... :rolleyes:

He was a reserve Deputy Chief with a Louisiana Sheriff's office for quite a while. They even did a TV show about it.

[Sensei]

I skimmed through the list and only grabbed the names that stuck out to me. But yeah, him too.

No worries, and I apologize if I implied that the omission was intentional. That was not my intention.

Of note, they misspelled his last name throughout the article and on the list. However, I pretty confident that it’s the same Rob O’Neill since they mention that he put the bullet through OBL’s head.

[Totem Polar]

That’s an eye-opening list that hits pretty damn close to home. All I’m going to say.

Well, that, and I believe Dagga when he implies that some of the smarter buy-ins were able to get left of bang on the shitshow, and are therefore missing from that list. Good on them, I suppose.

[CWM11B]

This says a lot (to me, at least). Full page add in one of this month's gun rags.

25885

As if I didn't have enough reasons to avoid craphawk...

[Sensei]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of the situation according to the linked articles is as follows:

1) Some time ago, the Lake Arthur Town Council voted to allow the municipality’s police chief to create a reserve police force of volunteers who would have limited law enforcement powers within the local community.

2) Instead of creating a reserve force (or in addition to), the chief allegedly sold full police credentials to celebrities and friends in return for what is arguably a $400 yearly bribe. Moreover, most of these people lived out of state and none completed the necessary training to be police officers in NM.

3) Nobody can yet account for the funds paid by the friends of the chief.

4) This has been known for several weeks.

Do I have that about right?

If so, this number should be ringing off the hook (505) 889-1580....

[Erick Gelhaus]

This says a lot (to me, at least). Full page add in one of this month's gun rags.

...

As if I didn't have enough reasons to avoid craphawk...

That's classic!

[jondoe297]

This is a stain on my profession. This is people pissing on a profession I love, and they cheapen it to something you can buy and not earn. When a high profile member of the firearms world got in his only CONUS shooting by shooting a relative while intoxicated with a negligent discharge, did the newspaper and media headlines say “former elite Army special operations soldier shoots relative while drunk”, or “police officer shoots relative while

You know, I don't always agree with you, but I can't like this enough. This is exactly how I feel, and it pisses me off that other guys in the training industry are telling me "Well, there's a lot of good guys on that list, so..." like it's ok, because so and so is a stand up former ninjateam6 guy.
Too many people are taking the attitude that it's ok, because some of them were just some really good dudes doing what they had to do to get LEOSA. Screw every last one of them. Become a real auxiliary/reserve and put your damned time in if you want a badge.

[Dagga Boy]

If it was as easy as just paying $400 and showing up in Lake Arthur once or twice a year, I'd know a LOT more people on the (seemingly incomplete) roster KRQE posted.

There were. Also.....how about their rank structure and how was that done...I actually don’t think the journalists have scratched the surface.

[LittleLebowski]

This says a lot (to me, at least). Full page add in one of this month's gun rags.

As if I didn't have enough reasons to avoid craphawk...

Whomever did that is a goddamn idiot.

[Dagga Boy]

Whomever did that is a goddamn idiot.

I think it is a brilliant campaign. “When you want to play dress up and pretend you are a cop-choose Blackhawk, the finest poser gear out there”

[Dagga Boy]

I also wonder if $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s?

[Casual Friday]

I also wonder is $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s.

Boom. Great point.

[Sensei]

I don't think that's exactly accurate -- which, if a Larry Barker report is your main source of info, is not terribly surprising. Larry does good work, but sometimes his exuberance gets in the way of accuracy.

I posted this earlier in a previous thread about Lake Arthur PD shenanigans:



If it was as easy as just paying $400 and showing up in Lake Arthur once or twice a year, I'd know a LOT more people on the (seemingly incomplete) roster KRQE posted.

Based on the documents that you provided and my speed reading ability on a mobile device, the only way that prior service military were eligible for a CBW was to have been military police officers AND attended the 40 hour certification by waiver training course and successfully passed the LEOCE with a score of 70% or better. Something tells me that none of the prior service military who received Lake Arthur credentials met that requirement; I’m almost certain that Royce Gracie and Robert Mercer didn’t meet it.

Again, this smells like a classic pay to play scheme where “friends of the chief” were provided unlawful LE credentials in exchange for money. If this is indeed the case, I hope that the FBI is gathering evidence for a grand jury as I type this.

[Totem Polar]

I also wonder is $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s.

You should ask them, just for shits n grins. I’d be curious as to what response, if any, that would engender. :D

[Drang]

It’s not exactly a secret he was a reserve in Louisiana


He was a reserve Deputy Chief with a Louisiana Sheriff's office for quite a while. They even did a TV show about it.

I remember seeing ads for the show. Never watched, didn't know it was LA.

[Sensei]

I also wonder if $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s?

For a one time payment of $400 - probably not; but $400 per year for the foreseeable future - might be tempting for a few guys with a tenuous grasp of honesty and ethics:

https://sofrep.com/55995/lone-survivor-uncovered-the-ambush-at-sawtalo-sar/
http://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=2939575

[TheNewbie]

I never thought the idea of making it easier for former SF guys to be cops was a great idea, nor for former MPs. It's a different job. Even though I have been a Texas cop for 11 years if I went to NM I would want to spend a decent amount of time learning their laws and CJ system.

While most SF guys are more prepared to be cops than most cops (including me) are to be SF, the process still has to be respected and completed.

I do support a LEOSA type law for SF guys though.

[blues]

https://i.imgflip.com/9654l.jpg?a423552

"...but wait, there's more!"

[Stephanie B]

I never thought the idea of making it easier for former SF guys to be cops was a great idea, nor for former MPs.
...
I do support a LEOSA type law for SF guys though.
Why?

[Stephanie B]

For a one time payment of $400 - probably not; but $400 per year for the foreseeable future - might be tempting for a few guys with a tenuous grasp of honesty and ethics:

https://sofrep.com/55995/lone-survivor-uncovered-the-ambush-at-sawtalo-sar/
http://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=2939575

If word had gotten out that one could effectively get a nationwide CCW permit for $400/yr, Lake Arthur could have been tax-free. Their 2016 revenues were less than $300K. (Except for the part that the Chief was allegedly pocketing the money.)

[LittleLebowski]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

[jellydonut]

I'm happy to see this thread is still kicking here, unsurprisingly it was removed on a different forum as it put the resident heroes of said forum in a bad light.

[blues]

https://youtu.be/T_0wFh-ceRU

[Sensei]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

Yep.


If word had gotten out that one could effectively get a nationwide CCW permit for $400/yr, Lake Arthur could have been tax-free. Their 2016 revenues were less than $300K. (Except for the part that the Chief was allegedly pocketing the money.)

The $400 yearly dues was paid to the Lake Arthur Police Training Division, not to the municipal general fund. So far, no one has been able to account for this money. If he was smart, the ex-chief parked it in a department account or used the money to hire top instructors to train his “officers.” It should not take a forensic accountant to figure this one out.

Finally, I don’t think anyone believes this scam was open to anyone with $400. It seems pretty clear that you had to be a “friend of the chief” such as a shooting industry professional, prominent political donor, etc.

[Casual Friday]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

Hadn't even thought of that. That could take this thing up a notch or two.

[Casual Friday]

I do support a LEOSA type law for SF guys though.

I don't. Same rules should apply to everyone. I'm not in favor of LEOSA either. Not because I think cops shouldn't be able to carry nationwide off duty, but because I believe everybody should be able to.

Why SF guys though? Why not everyone in the military?

[CWM11B]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

Alledgedly, there are.

Sensei, if I recall correctly, the "Chief" was the sole full time employee. He should be the most highly trained cop in the nation with that budget, I sure wish I had one that big ;)

[jellydonut]

As long as this thread stays focused on the former program at Lake Arthur and not on any of the people that took part in that program, this thread will stay open. However, just as soon as someone gets a boner about it and decides this is a good place to start grinding axes against those people, I'll close it.

People being people, I suspect that closure is inevitable. But hope springs eternal. :)

Closure would be one thing, I'm more dismayed when forum owners decide to quietly remove what would be bad publicity for their favored instructors.

[Stephanie B]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

I'd imagine that the ATF is probably poking around there.

[LittleLebowski]

Let's not worry too much about other forums.

[45dotACP]

I also wonder if $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s?Highly agree.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

I don't. Same rules should apply to everyone. I'm not in favor of LEOSA either. Not because I think cops shouldn't be able to carry nationwide off duty, but because I believe everybody should be able to.

Why SF guys though? Why not everyone in the military?


You actually have a point. Mainly because I believe in state sovereignty. So yes you have a good point.

[TGS]

I don't. Same rules should apply to everyone. I'm not in favor of LEOSA either. Not because I think cops shouldn't be able to carry nationwide off duty, but because I believe everybody should be able to.

Why SF guys though? Why not everyone in the military?

I'll play. First and foremost, I want to say upfront that every citizen who is able to get a CCW permit should have that permit recognized in all 50....with that being said:

The idea behind LEOSA is twofold: 1) the qualified LEO, as an aggregate population, have increased risk of running into people that want to hurt them, and 2) the qualified LEO, retired or not, has specific and quantifiable skills regarding protecting the public, and they should be able to exercise those regardless of which state they're in.

General military members simply don't fit either of those roles. MPs certainly do on both accounts, which is why LEOSA was amended to clearly include them. An argument can easily be made that SF and other SOF units fit #2 clearly enough to be of benefit to the public. The vast majority of military members do not use pistols as a primary or real secondary weapon system....for those that do who aren't SOF, their proficiency tends to be luaghably low, as the fact they're carrying a pistol has more to do with paper tiger antics rather than any actual state of readiness.

So, that's why under the current thought process and legal theories that drives LEOSA you'll never see it expanded to include all military members.

[Casual Friday]

I'll play. First and foremost, I want to say upfront that every citizen who is able to get a CCW permit should have that permit recognized in all 50....with that being said:

The idea behind LEOSA is twofold: 1) the qualified LEO, as an aggregate population, have increased risk of running into people that want to hurt them, and 2) the qualified LEO, retired or not, has specific and quantifiable skills regarding protecting the public, and they should be able to exercise those regardless of which state they're in.

General military members simply don't fit either of those roles. MPs certainly do on both accounts, which is why LEOSA was amended to clearly include them. An argument can easily be made that SF and other SOF units fit #2 clearly enough to be of benefit to the public. The vast majority of military members do not use pistols as a primary or real secondary weapon system....for those that do who aren't SOF, their proficiency tends to be luaghably low, as the fact they're carrying a pistol has more to do with paper tiger antics rather than any actual state of readiness.

So, that's why under the current thought process and legal theories that drives LEOSA you'll never see it expanded to include all military members.

I understand the reasoning given but I stand by my position. The importance of being able to defend myself or my family in another state is no less important than that of an off duty/retired cop.

[Sensei]

I understand the reasoning given but I stand by my position. The importance of being able to defend myself or my family in another state is no less important than that of an off duty/retired cop.

I’d imagine that everyone on this forum agrees with the sentiment in your post. Hopefully, everyone realizes that the situation described in this thread (i.e. a privileged group of individuals buying LE credentials from a public official that they did not earn or have a lawful right to possess) is a threat to the very ideal that you articulated.

[okie john]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.

Very much this.

I've seen multiple videos of a guy on that list in civilian clothes shooting and posing with some high-end Class 3 gear. The weapons may have been rentals, but the videos were not made on a range.


Okie John

[okie john]

An argument can easily be made that SF and other SOF units fit #2 clearly enough to be of benefit to the public.

I can think of three reasons why this might not work.
1. The DoD does not acknowledge publicly that some of those units exist, so it's not like those guys can hand over a DD-214 and prove where they came from.
2. Not all SF and SOF people understand guns and shooting to the extent that you might think. (Larry Vickers and Pat McNamara were gun guys before they enlisted, and they turned that into a business after they got out. Others were parachute guys or boat guys, and have done the same in those fields.) Some of the guys I served with in SF went on to far more exotic assignments. I have seen people ask for their input on guns and gear, and some of their advice would make the average poster here cringe.
3. Training for SF and SOF people has a very different legal underpinning from the training that LEOs get. MPs are trained to use force under the UCMJ, which I believe is fairly close to how civilian LEOs are trained. But training for SF and SOF guys is based on the laws of land warfare far more than the US Constitution and case law. I get that all policing is regional, and that a retired deputy from rural Texas and a current homicide detective from Boston may have very different approaches to how they use force, but in that respect SF and SOF guys might as well be from another planet.


I understand the reasoning given but I stand by my position. The importance of being able to defend myself or my family in another state is no less important than that of an off duty/retired cop.

I agree with this 100%, but legislated reciprocity is probably a better answer.


Okie John

[TheNewbie]

I can think of three reasons why this might not work.
1. The DoD does not acknowledge publicly that some of those units exist, so it's not like those guys can hand over a DD-214 and prove where they came from.
2. Not all SF and SOF people understand guns and shooting to the extent that you might think. (Larry Vickers and Pat McNamara were gun guys before they enlisted, and they turned that into a business after they got out. Others were parachute guys or boat guys, and have done the same in those fields.) Some of the guys I served with in SF went on to far more exotic assignments. I have seen people ask for their input on guns and gear, and some of their advice would make the average poster here cringe.
3. Training for SF and SOF people has a very different legal underpinning from the training that LEOs get. MPs are trained to use force under the UCMJ, which I believe is fairly close to how civilian LEOs are trained. But training for SF and SOF guys is based on the laws of land warfare far more than the US Constitution and case law. I get that all policing is regional, and that a retired deputy from rural Texas and a current homicide detective from Boston may have very different approaches to how they use force, but in that respect SF and SOF guys might as well be from another planet.



I agree with this 100%, but legislated reciprocity is probably a better answer.


Okie John

Great post. I had an SF guy recommend Kimber to me as the best option for a decent priced 1911. He was combat vet , excellenty trained, and a great instructor, but I knew this was not the advice to take.

[Dagga Boy]

Just for those who don’t know. LEOSA has some significant requirements that gets lost with corrupt practices like Lake Arthur. Annual qualifications, documented training as police officers, annual background checks, etc. It should serve as a type of model and experiment for National CCW legislation rather than an example of what not to do, and why abuses seriously piss me off.

[TheNewbie]

Just for those who don’t know. LEOSA has some significant requirements that gets lost with corrupt practices like Lake Arthur. Annual qualifications, documented training as police officers, annual background checks, etc. It should serve as a type of model and experiment for National CCW legislation rather than an example of what not to do, and why abuses seriously piss me off.

There is a requirement for annual background checks ?

[blues]

deleted

[Dagga Boy]

There is a requirement for annual background checks ? Every year I have to do a series of question and the agency checks my status before reissueing my ID card. It may not be required, but most of the places I know of require it to ensure they do not issue a card to a prohibited individual.

[LtDave]

Every year I have to do a series of question and the agency checks my status before reissueing my ID card. It may not be required, but most of the places I know of require it to ensure they do not issue a card to a prohibited individual.

CA has a 5 year limit on your retired CCW credentials. I have to go back to my PD in CA, qualify and be fingerprinted again to maintain my CCW in CA. Costs me about $500 in travel and lodging expenses each time (I've done it twice so far). I also qualify annually here in AZ to keep my LEOSA active. That runs $20 for AZ DPS and another $20 to the instructor who administers the qualification.

[LittleLebowski]

Very much this.

I've seen multiple videos of a guy on that list in civilian clothes shooting and posing with some high-end Class 3 gear. The weapons may have been rentals, but the videos were not made on a range.


Okie John

I honestly wouldn't call a guy that's made it through Hell Week twice a washout.

[okie john]

I honestly wouldn't call a guy that's made it through Hell Week twice a washout.

Agreed. I may be wrong in the specific terminology, but the idea remains the same. Perhaps a moot point, as I struck that language per Tom's admonition to avoid going after specific people.


Okie John

[mark7]

Every year I have to do a series of question and the agency checks my status before reissueing my ID card. It may not be required, but most of the places I know of require it to ensure they do not issue a card to a prohibited individual.

PA also requires annual NICS check for certification.

[Drang]

If each agency sets their own requirements to maintain LEOSA status, and out of curiosity (since it will never apply to me), are there minimum requirements under the law?

I recall being told by somebody they just contact the local agency, because that's what the agency they retired from allows, but when I asked my father if he had his creds, he said "Hell, no, I'd have to go to Detroit annually!" Even with my sister's family still living in Michigan, he likes to watch that dumpster fire from afar.

[TheNewbie]

Here is an NRA FAQ on LEOSA.

http://le.nra.org/leosa/frequently-asked-questions.aspx

[Dagga Boy]

A lot of this is why LEOSA needs some clean up badly and why the Lake Arthur thing hurts the cause. There needs to be some national standards set for BOTH officers and agencies. Standardized qualification, NICS background, standards on magazines and ammunition and some clearly defined training standards while employed. Clearly, reserves and special officer standards need to be addressed as well.
There are far more agencies playing b.s games with their own versions of LEOSA than the ones like Lake Arthur scamming the system. We also have some huge issues with jurisdictions deciding they don’t recognize LEOSA (that is usually a politically elected individual in that government structure). For those who are on the “screw the cops what makes them special”, working this stuff out now and doing it successfully with the LEO’s will set a solid example and ground work to work off of for interstate acceptance of other states CCW licenses that I FULLY and Wholeheartedly support.

[Dagga Boy]

Here is an NRA FAQ on LEOSA.

http://le.nra.org/leosa/frequently-asked-questions.aspx

There is what the law says and what actually happens. From carrying as a retiree with LEOSA for over a decade, living in different states, and a lot of travel....what happens and what is supposed to happen are vastly different. In line with that is just like flying with firearms..there is what the rules say and what actually happens at individual ticket counters.

[TheNewbie]

There is what the law says and what actually happens. From carrying as a retiree with LEOSA for over a decade, living in different states, and a lot of travel....what happens and what is supposed to happen are vastly different. In line with that is just like flying with firearms..there is what the rules say and what actually happens at individual ticket counters.

Oh I believe you , I just wanted to post that up for people to read.

Have you had any bad experiences in regard to LEOSA?

[Dagga Boy]

Oh I believe you , I just wanted to post that up for people to read.

Have you had any bad experiences in regard to LEOSA?

One. In a very strange place for it to be an issue. Otherwise, I am beyond careful and play by the rules and generally stick to whatever the laws are for citizens in outside jurisdictions.

[TheNewbie]

One. In a very strange place for it to be an issue. Otherwise, I am beyond careful and play by the rules and generally stick to whatever the laws are for citizens in outside jurisdictions.

I'm a cop in Texas and I have been given the cold shoulder by DPS. A DPS Trooper on I-20 stopped my brother and I for a tag light. He was clearly running interdiction because of how he interviewed us. I informed him that we had been out west hiking and he asked me why we needed 3 guns between the two of us to just go hiking.

Not saying he was an ass or unprofessional , but I can see the point you are making about what should be vs what is.

[blues]

I'm a cop in Texas and I have been given the cold shoulder by DPS. A DPS Trooper on I-20 stopped my brother and I for a tag light. He was clearly running interdiction because of how he interviewed us. I informed him that we had been out west hiking and he asked me why we needed 3 guns between the two of us to just go hiking.

Not saying he was an ass or unprofessional , but I can see the point you are making about what should be vs what is.

Stay out of New Jersey. (Just sayin'.)

[TheNewbie]

Stay out of New Jersey. (Just sayin'.)

Did they ever give you fed guys a hard time?

[LSP552]

I'm a cop in Texas and I have been given the cold shoulder by DPS. A DPS Trooper on I-20 stopped my brother and I for a tag light. He was clearly running interdiction because of how he interviewed us. I informed him that we had been out west hiking and he asked me why we needed 3 guns between the two of us to just go hiking.

What the hell does need have to do with it?

[LSP552]

Stay out of New Jersey. (Just sayin'.)

I drove wayyy out of my way to not pass through NJ when moving from LA to RI last Sept. I didn’t want any questions about the arsenal in the back of the truck....

[HCM]

Every year I have to do a series of question and the agency checks my status before reissueing my ID card. It may not be required, but most of the places I know of require it to ensure they do not issue a card to a prohibited individual.

That is a CA thing or an Agency thing. Renewals and background checks post retirement background checks are not a LEOSA requirement. My agency issues LEOSA ID cards with no expiration. Our retires just need to shoot the COF for their state of residence every year to stay current.

[Trooper224]

That is a CA thing or an Agency thing. Renewals and background checks post retirement background checks are not a LEOSA requirement. My agency issues LEOSA ID cards with no expiration. Our retires just need to shoot the COF for their state of residence every year to stay current.

Same with mine, never heard of a background check being involved.

[blues]

Did they ever give you fed guys a hard time?

Not me personally, but I can remember fist fights that broke out on the road between NJ State Troopers and feds back in the day. They behaved like a law unto themselves. I haven't heard anything to indicate that the situation has changed. (Of course individual officers will vary in any agency.)

[Kyle Reese]

Not me personally, but I can remember fist fights that broke out on the road between NJ State Troopers and feds back in the day. They behaved like a law unto themselves. I haven't heard anything to indicate that the situation has changed. (Of course individual officers will vary in any agency.)I was once told by a NJ LEO to just stay out of NJ with firearms, period. Fortunately, I have less than zero desire to ever visit the Garden State.

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[jondoe297]

The elephant in the room is whether or not there's Class 3 on department letterhead floating around.


I'd say another elephant in the room is how many P-F members are on the Lake Arthur list?

[TGS]

I'd say another elephant in the room is how many P-F members are on the Lake Arthur list?

There was one (not an active member, however) that used to be a reserve there and is missing on this current list.

[LittleLebowski]

I'd say another elephant in the room is how many P-F members are on the Lake Arthur list?

And we won’t speculate on that publicly.

[BWT]

I also wonder if $400 will get me a SEAL Trident from Luttrell or O’Neil, a BJJ Black Belt from the Gracie’s?

As a white belt I resent that remark!

Throw it wherever I can. Have lost 42-ish lbs. I did the Blue belt curriculum tonight and... it was depressing.

God Bless,

Brandon

All joking aside obviously this is bad and looks bad for all parties involved. I respect LE and the sacrifices that they’ve made. LEOSA shouldn’t be necessary for concealed carrying in all states but it is. We need to change the laws, not find ways around them.

[jellydonut]

As a white belt I resent that remark!

Throw it wherever I can. Have lost 42-ish lbs. I did the Blue belt curriculum tonight and... it was depressing.

God Bless,

Brandon

All joking aside obviously this is bad and looks bad for all parties involved. I respect LE and the sacrifices that they’ve made. LEOSA shouldn’t be necessary for concealed carrying in all states but it is. We need to change the laws, not find ways around them.

I'm all for finding ways around laws, but finding ways around laws implies something that is universally available.

Paying a police chief 400 dollars under the table, yearly, isn't finding a way around the law. It's just graft.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm all for finding ways around laws, but finding ways around laws implies something that is universally available.

Paying a police chief 400 dollars under the table, yearly, isn't finding a way around the law. It's just graft.

We don't actually know (yet) where the money went.


Albuquerque attorney and former Bernalillo County Commissioner Simon Kubiak runs the Lake Arthur Reserve Police Officer’s Association. Although Kubiak has no police training he is listed in Lake Arthur's records as a Lieutenant. Kubiak's private association collects the $400 in annual dues from each of the posse members. However, the Albuquerque attorney refused to release an accounting of the funds and would not agree to be interviewed about the money.

[Sensei]

We don't actually know (yet) where the money went.

My advice to the former county commissioner -

25936

[Casual Friday]

I'd say another elephant in the room is how many P-F members are on the Lake Arthur list?

There's at least one.

[LittleLebowski]

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