Media spotlight on one of our cadets/ thoughts?

[lwt16]

http://whnt.com/2018/03/27/tonight-at-10-man-previously-involved-in-deadly-wreck-now-in-police-academy/

Thoughts on this? Would this guy get a slot where you work?

To say it's caused a few eyebrows to be raised is putting it mildly.

Regards.

[AMC]

Uhhhhh....no. While I firmly believe in redemption, that doesn't mean a free pass from the laws of man. DUI causing death....reckless driving to that extent, AND illegal drugs (at least then and in that place)? Perhaps being a paramedic would be a better role for him. It would allow him to serve his community honorably, without being responsible for enforcing the laws he so callously disregarded in the past.

[Peally]

Killed people, did drugs, only did a mere single year in regular jail......... wow, good luck kid.

[Kram]

Is your department that desperate for manpower or does the guy know people in high places? There had to be guys who applied with the same qualifications but without the baggage. With that background, he wouldn't even be eligible to submit the initial basic application at my agency.

[LSP552]

Nope, no way.

[John Hearne]

I don't know what everyone's upset about - it's not like the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.....

[arcticlightfighter]

"Thats a no from me Dawg....."

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Totality of circumstances, anyone? Anyone?


civiliandefender.com

[Gadfly]

Would not make it past the interview... nope... no way.
We get 200 applicants for every open position, so there are plenty of good candidates without having to deal with that liability.

[scw2]

As a civilian who really doesn't know how these things go, would his prior actions hurt his case if a lawsuit was brought against him/agency/city/county during the course of police work?

[RoyGBiv]

Uhhhhh....no. While I firmly believe in redemption, that doesn't mean a free pass from the laws of man. DUI causing death....reckless driving to that extent, AND illegal drugs (at least then and in that place)? Perhaps being a paramedic would be a better role for him. It would allow him to serve his community honorably, without being responsible for enforcing the laws he so callously disregarded in the past.
I was thinking along these lines (not being in LE), but was also wondering what the reasoning was behind a 19yo getting a youthful offender status for killing someone while drunk on on drugs.. Seems especially forgiving... Not quite as forgiving as our local "Affluenza (http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article206782009.html)" story..

[Gadfly]

As a civilian who really doesn't know how these things go, would his prior actions hurt his case if a lawsuit was brought against him/agency/city/county during the course of police work?

An officer/agent is an open book under cross examination. You can be asked about off duty conduct, facebook posts, past internal affairs allegations. Look at Mark Furmahn. He was talking shit in a private meeting 12 years prior to OJ, and they defense pulled it out and beat him over the head with it...

NO ONE is 100% squeaky clean. Every person (LEO or civilian) has something somewhere in their past that is potentially embarrassing. But why start someone off who you know has a blatant criminal past?

[txdpd]

Yeah, they can save the redemption story for another career field.

Have any of the higher ups at that department thought about what's going to happen when that kid has to get on the stand? It's the entire departments credibility that's on the line, just by association.

[SJC3081]

Got drunk, car accident friend died bad choice. I'd hire him before I hired some dirt bag that stole cars,property or committed assaults.

[Kukuforguns]

I think there are 2 separate (at least) issues here. First, can the recruit be a good police officer. Second, if the department hires him as a police officer, will that decision adversely effect the ability of the department to implement its mission.

I strongly believe that the actions of a youth are not determinative of future behavior. There's a reason that, as a society, we seal juvenile records. I'm personally aware of people who screwed up as youths who have led productive lives. At age 19, he was past the typical cut-off for characterizing his behavior as youthful stupidity. His crime was not one involving intent to cause harm. Based on the linked article, it appears the recruit has spent the intervening years acting reliably and has demonstrated commitment to a life of public service. I'm sure the department has a psychological profile on him. Based on what I know, it appears he is not unfit to be a police officer.

As the comments here establish, the recruit will be perceived as negatively effecting the department's ability to implement its mission. There will be residents who perceive the recruit to be unfit to be a police officer. His past may interfere with his ability to be a credible witness. The only upside I can see for the department is that he may have additional credibility in talking about the dangers of impaired driving. On the whole, it appears hiring the recruit will harm the department.

[Coyotesfan97]

I’ll take Nope for $200 Alex

[MI Law]

Damn, I thought WE were getting desperate...

[SD]

No way could that Candidate wannabe get a slot. But i bet the PBA could save the officers job if they where already off probation and had a decent Rabbi going to bat for them.

[TQP]

I'm not sure how he was accepted by a paramedic program, let alone got certified. Medic school is generally 2 years now, which would put him 3 years or less post conviction starting school.

He wouldn't get hired here. I doubt he'd get hired by an ambulance company or EMS agency, just because of his driving record.

[TGS]

He wouldn't get hired here. I doubt he'd get hired by an ambulance company or EMS agency, just because of his driving record.

Ditto. He wouldn't have passed Risk Management's standards at the large EMS agency I used to work at; I know that for a fact due to some people that I tried to hire and were given the thumbs down due to much less than this kids' history.

I don't think he would've been eligible to become certified by the state, either.......but that I'm not 100% sure on.

[Chance]

From an individual perspective, I say give the guy the opportunity. The accident was eight years ago, he has apparently had no issues since then, and he's made demonstrable effort towards making something out of himself in the meantime. Further, he's applied and been rejected multiple times, made improvements, and then tried again, so this isn't something he's doing because he doesn't have any other ideas about what to do with his life.

From an agency perspective.... In today's society, the potential fallout far outweighs the benefits of a redemption story. He's painting a bullseye on the organization, and no amount of do-gooding is going to matter much in a lawsuit in front of an unfriendly jury.

I think he could be a better asset to his community outside law enforcement. Just a non-cop's 02¢.

[Jason M]

No how. No way. Why? Why him when there are dozens of applicants without that baggage?

[PD Sgt.]

Got drunk, car accident friend died bad choice. I'd hire him before I hired some dirt bag that stole cars,property or committed assaults.

I would hire the candidate behind him with none of that extra baggage.

Some poor decisions can be overcome. Some decisions, or series of decisions, the consequences last much longer, or never really go away.

[45dotACP]

Sounds like a senior leadership material in the making...


C'mon, am I the only one gonna unleash the snark? 🤣

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[MI Law]

I wonder who number two on the list was.

[KeeFus]

Nope, not at my agency. I don’t think our CJ Training & Standards (POST) would allow him to be certified.

But, some Sheriffs Offices in NC would probably hire him...

[lwt16]

Thank you all for your replies. I'll refrain from commenting as this guy will probably be my daggum sergeant one day. lol

[Dagga Boy]

One of the most qualified folks we ever had was never hired after multiple attempts and jumping through every hoop imaginable. Problem “too many accidents”. He was a busy road guy for a major player in the LE Equipment industry and racked over 50,000 miles a year on the road driving a company car. None of the accidents were his fault, just a factor of exposure. That kid would have never gotten a foot Past the risk management door.
I agree....great potential for a paramedic somewhere.

[Poconnor]

The shark lawyers will be lining up to sue the department . If he is involved in anything that goes bad whether he made a mistake or not the lawsuit will be huge. Any chief that would hire him really does not understand how bad a lawsuit can go. Plus this contributes to the steady decline in law enforcement standards. The fuck up move up mentality. If he really wants to serve his community; tell him to be a fireman or join the military. I don’t think the military would take him without a waiver and that should be a big enough clue for the chief. He can always be a politician like Ted Kennedy

[psalms144.1]

It's almost Good Friday, so I'm inclined to be non-judgemental and as forgiving as the man who hung on the cross for us. Having said that, what are they thinking? EVERYTHING this guy does or fails to do from the minute he swears in will be a liability suit waiting to happen. I'm super proud of how he's turned his life around, but, some folks have too much baggage to take the risk. This officer will NEVER have a minute's peace. God forbid he get into a wreck responding to a call or during a pursuit...

[lwt16]

Well, there's still a few weeks to go and then there is FTO phase.

We've lost quite a few already.........a 1/3 if I am being quoted correct numbers. We always lose more during FTO phase.

I have my opinion on the matter......but I fear I am old school with the associated mentality that comes with 22 years of this......as well as experience on the hiring board. I've seen what type of folks they have passed up in the past.

The romantic in me wonders what relationships he made while incarcerated.....and if any of those relationships will come back to haunt him when dealing with former cell mates.....and what he may have shared with them....in addition to all the above concerns.

I'm also wondering what type of welcome he's going to get when/if he does come out in the field. Lots of us have had to do notifications and clean up scenes like he caused..........I'm not sure it's going to be warm and fuzzy.

[Gadfly]

I had a long time friend who had a little brother make it into the fire academy in Houston. First time through, something happened (never got a straight answer) and he got recycled. Second time through, he passed. On the night he graduated, he and his class mates go out to celebrate. He is driving 5 of his classmates. He blew a .08 and lost his job graduation night. They were all far more drunk, and they still have jobs... Now, he is a security guard.

Sooo many people lose it all on a DWI. I have had 2-3 co workers gone over DWI. If I am out NEVER more than two drinks, and typically not even that. I am too close to finish line to lose my job now.

[HCountyGuy]

If he’s turned his life around, good on him I wish him the best of luck.

But as others have stated, there’s going to be a bloodthirsty lawyer just WAITING for him to have any kind of incident and then make it hell for this guy and the department.

Seriously though, THIS guy gets accepted but there’s quality folks getting DQed at other departments for silly shit. Honestly frustrates me.