Dealing with poor demos in front of students

[jetfire]

Recognizing that we all have good and bay days as shooters and instructors, how do you manage a poor performance on a drill/demo in front of a class? For example, yesterday I was teaching a competition shooting class, and while demo'ing a drill at 20 yards I managed to drop a truly terrible shot because I was impatient with the trigger.

My usual process for when I make shooting mistakes in an instructor role is

Acknowledge my mistake
explain what I did wrong
gently poke fun at myself
use as a teaching/lesson point

My goal whenever I make a shooting mistake is to hopefully get the students to understand that mistakes are going to happen, and they're an acceptable part of training as long as you're capable of diagnosing and correcting the mistake so that "mistake" doesn't turn into "bad habit".

I am curious how other people manage the class interaction when you make shooting/technical errors while demo'ing drills for students.

[JV_]

Your process seems sufficient for me.

One important tangent is to not get bent out of shape if one of your students outperforms you in a drill. I've experienced instances where I shot better than the instructor and their attitude changed.

[jetfire]

I agree 100% about that; my general thought process on students out shooting me is "way to go, dude!" I have been outshot by students in the past, and it will happen again in the future. It doesn't hurt me as instructor to acknowledge and praise students for good performances, but going in the opposite direction can really leave people with a bad impression.

[LHS]

Recognizing that we all have good and bay days as shooters and instructors, how do you manage a poor performance on a drill/demo in front of a class? For example, yesterday I was teaching a competition shooting class, and while demo'ing a drill at 20 yards I managed to drop a truly terrible shot because I was impatient with the trigger.

My usual process for when I make shooting mistakes in an instructor role is

Acknowledge my mistake
explain what I did wrong
gently poke fun at myself
use as a teaching/lesson point

My goal whenever I make a shooting mistake is to hopefully get the students to understand that mistakes are going to happen, and they're an acceptable part of training as long as you're capable of diagnosing and correcting the mistake so that "mistake" doesn't turn into "bad habit".

I am curious how other people manage the class interaction when you make shooting/technical errors while demo'ing drills for students.

I've seen that process work several times over the years. The best was a well-known instructor doing teaching 870 drills to some LE students. He was demoing how to unload shells from the mag tube without cycling the action (keeping the weapon downrange as is proper), and once the tube was empty, he said "And now I'll drop the hammer on an empty-" KABOOM. I saw his face go into a split second expression of "Holy crap, I just had an ND!" before he immediately brought himself under control, and said "And THAT, ladies and gents, is why you NEVER let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy." He was already doing damage control before the students had finished processing what just happened. The reaction was so immediate, and so suave, that most of the class was convinced it was a staged event. But in any case, it drove home, to me, the importance of that particular rule of gun safety.

[Tony Muhlenkamp]

I've never been an instructor, but have been a student; so from that perspective your process makes sense. A couple of additional thoughts:

1. What is your demeanor and attitude like throughout the class, especially before the drills? If you have set your self up as the consummate shooter that never makes a mistake, then the loss of credibility will be HUGE if you drop a demo drill. If you have belittled students for blowing a drill, then blowing a drill yourself will be a problem. An attitude of competent humility (but not false humility)on the instructor's part goes a long way and helps me focus on what I can learn from the instructor. After all, the instructor is there to help me learn and improve, not demonstrate his skills. I think your process is consistent with that.

2. Along those lines, is it necessary to demo the drill for people to understand it? Would it be as effective if you didn't shoot it yourself, or if you just shot into the berm? I've had instructors never fire a round during a class, and it didn't seem to lessen the quality of instruction. I suspect it will depend on the particular drill, but the instructor should have a definite reason for each round that comes out of his weapon during a class.

In general, having an instructor impress me with his ability CAN be useful, but past a point becomes a problem. At some point I say "Yes, we all know YOU can shoot, now how about helping me." A good teacher becomes more credible than a good shooter; and the difference is tangible over a three day course. This doesn't sound like your issue at all, but maybe some feedback from the guy on the line will be useful to you.

Tony Muhlenkamp

[JV_]

I think it's very important for an instructor to demo a drill first, and in general, and I expect them to perform well.

I'm a visual learner, and I often pick up subtleties and tidbits about their technique that can help me improve.

[Tony Muhlenkamp]

JV, agree completely. Just can't tell you how often I have failed to SEE the subtlties and tidbits the instructor is performing; so I need him to break down for me in words exactly what he is doing, and why, and what I need to do differently to accomplish the same things. Even when I look, I can't always see; especially if I don't know what I am looking for.

So maybe the point for Caleb is that if and when you blow a drill, you explain what happened, why, and how to correct it. A blown drill is now a teaching moment, which is right back to his description of what he does.

Tony Muhlenkamp

[NETim]

After dodging a veritable hailstorm of rocks, my previous instructors have usually been given a chance to regroup, apply bandaids and demo the drill again.

Good times!


:)

[jetfire]

One of my biggest pet peeves is taking classes from instructors that act like they are infallible god-kings of pistol-craft. It's really annoying and it harms my experience as a student. I studiously try to avoid doing that in my classes, because it's generally hard to get repeat business if every single student thinks you're a dick.



So maybe the point for Caleb is that if and when you blow a drill, you explain what happened, why, and how to correct it. A blown drill is now a teaching moment, which is right back to his description of what he does.

Tony Muhlenkamp

Indeed, that's my usual goal. I'd much rather a student learns from my mistake than have to do it themselves.

[joshs]

Your method for dealing with poor demos seems sound. I would avoid redemoing unless you did something wrong. By wrong I mea you didn't do the drill correctly. If you did it correctly, but poorly, I wouldn't reshoot. I'm always more impressed when instructors shoot a drill clean rather than fast with dropped shots. Unless the purpose of the drill is to exaggerate speed, I would demo at a pace where you know you can get your hits because students often try to replicate how the instructor shot a drill.

[jetfire]

That's the hardest part of doing demos for me is trying to shoot them at a reasonable pace instead of putting the pedal to the metal. My deep and abiding love of "MUST GO FAST NOW" is something I usually fight when teaching.

[Aray]

That's the hardest part of doing demos for me is trying to shoot them at a reasonable pace instead of putting the pedal to the metal. My deep and abiding love of "MUST GO FAST NOW" is something I usually fight when teaching.

Absoultely, me too. Get it perfect slower rather than right and fastest.

[JodyH]

A while back I remember Todd saying he observed a direct correlation between how he demo'd the FAST and how his students performed on it.
When he shot it clean, more students shot it clean.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[jetfire]

A correlating anecdote: in the Speed Kills/Get SOM class out here last year, he didn't shoot Dot Torture clean when he demo'd it...and then no one in te class shot it clean, despite there being several shooters in attendance with sufficient skill to do just that.

[joshs]

A correlating anecdote: in the Speed Kills/Get SOM class out here last year, he didn't shoot Dot Torture clean when he demo'd it...and then no one in te class shot it clean, despite there being several shooters in attendance with sufficient skill to do just that.

Dot torture sucks to demo because it takes so much time to shoot some of the strings clean.

[irishshooter]

My usual process for when I make shooting mistakes in an instructor role is

Acknowledge my mistake
explain what I did wrong
gently poke fun at myself
use as a teaching/lesson point

My goal whenever I make a shooting mistake is to hopefully get the students to understand that mistakes are going to happen, and they're an acceptable part of training as long as you're capable of diagnosing and correcting the mistake so that "mistake" doesn't turn into "bad habit".

agreed, great style.


One of my biggest pet peeves is taking classes from instructors that act like they are infallible god-kings of pistol-craft. It's really annoying and it harms my experience as a student. I studiously try to avoid doing that in my classes, because it's generally hard to get repeat business if every single student thinks you're a dick.

This. Had one instructor at a well known training facility ask me what caliber i was shooting. i replied that it was 9mm and then he says "oh thats why" referencing why i out shot most of the participants and him. He also spent valuable class time trying to perfect a trick shot and then chalked it up to recent trigger work. As an instructor the job is to instruct not compete although it is human nature.

[JodyH]

I want to see the instructor shoot in a skills based class.
The instructor doesn't have to be a Range-God, but I do expect them to be a confident gunhandler with a high skill level.
I shoot 3-gun and IPSC with several FLETC USBP academy instructors, I can out shoot the majority of them but I am 100% confident that any one of them could teach me something.
The reason I have that confidence is I watch their gunhandling and every one of them is smooth, safe and very confident in how they manipulate their gun.
They are all textbook examples of how to "run the gun" and I've complimented them on that multiple times.

One thing I do not do when I blow a demo is to say "well that sucked" or "I completely screwed that up".
The reason is there's a good chance that my bad demo will still be better than many of the students best efforts and I don't want them thinking their best performance "sucked".
When I toss a round out on a demo I will acknowledge it.
I'll then use it as a teachable moment.
"I missed this round here because I did not maintain focus on the front sight.
For this drill remember to let the front sight determine when you press the trigger."

If you repeat a drill after blowing it the first time, you damn sure better nail it the second time.
Do not slam your hand in the car door repeatedly in front of an audience.

I demo a lot of drills because there are visual learners in your class who might miss important details if you only give verbal instructions.
For this reason I slow down my demos to the point where they are executed perfectly, usually 3/4 of my "comfortable" speed.
Occasionally I'll still pull a shot off target, but the manipulations up until that point are as smooth and perfect as I can possibly make them.

[JV_]

Have any of you noticed a correlation between your execution of the demo and the student's performance?

[jetfire]

Not at the time, but when I look back with 20/20 hindsight I absolutely do; but it's more along the lines of "attempted performance." For example, if I demo a Bill Drill at or close to my own 100%, the students in class are much more likely to try and gun it with maximum speed, but if I slow down a bit and get 100% hits, they're more likely to do the same.

It seems like there's a certain "monkey see/monkey do" aspect to that.

[JodyH]

Have any of you noticed a correlation between your execution of the demo and the student's performance?
I usually instruct very basic classes (CCW classes and 1st timer competition classes) so the student skill levels are usually all over the place to begin with and it's hard to draw good conclusions.

I can say that in IPSC or IDPA matches if the first guy up on a stage shoots it smooth and clean the rest of the squad is likely to do so as well. Same as if the first guy is a trigger slapping speed demon with mediocre accuracy the squad will trend that way too. I've seen that a lot when I RO matches.
The more experienced competitors are the only ones who seem to avoid the lemming like behavior.

[TexBuckeye]

None of my football coaches could evade a rush or throw a ball better than I could, but they had a better understanding of the game than I did...and I knew that. With the amount of time I can afford to put in I will never out shoot my instructors, and even if I could run a low stress drill better/faster than one of them on one day of the week, I'd still be a boy in a man's game...and I know that. I'm not paying for a show, I'm paying for instruction. Oh, and I've seen an instructor "miss". I would never have thought about it again if not for this thread, and come the third Thursday of this month I'll be back for more training.

[Mr_White]

Great topic Caleb!

I think the method in your original post is very sound and a right way to handle it.

The first step is to practice the material to the point that you won’t screw it up. But that’s only the best preparation, not a guarantee that no error will be made, especially when the demo is close to our own level of ability and not significantly below it.

Some demos don’t need a time component. In those cases, I think the best thing to do is go very smoothly and as perfectly as possible.

Some demos do require a time component, and in those cases I think the best thing to do is to stick as closely to the class standard as possible, for both time and accuracy, and if one is going to outrun any aspect of the standard, generally I would want to push the accuracy, for better demo performance insurance. Even demos that seem slow to us often look extremely fast to students, but we must respect the time component of the demo too, if there is one.

Some demos are just plain difficult, or at least, very easy to make a mistake on – like the 20 yard shot in your original post, or a sub-5 clean FAST. I personally would point out that the difference between a great shot and a terrible shot can be no more than a small moment of inattention.

Someone mentioned not berating your own demonstration when it is still better than the students can do. I personally might do that but turn it into an attempt to inspire the students. I tell them that a reason they should train as much as their resources allow is because when they make a mistake and mess something up because of a bad day, a bad moment, misplaced attention, an unfavorable set of circumstances, or simple human performance variation, that they should have stacked the deck so much in their favor skill-wise and created such an incredible mismatch that they, on their worst day, are better than their opponent ever dreamed of being on his best day. I make it the argument for more training.

Though the instruction still may be sound, I always notice when instructors either do not demonstrate anything, or do demos with either the accuracy or time component removed or not measured. Doesn’t mean it’s always wrong, and there are times when it can be better to demonstrate in those ways, but there are also lots of times when it is little more than the instructor not laying their own performance on the line and leading by example.

And I very much agree with those who said that having the visual reference of seeing an excellent practitioner perform is better for the learning styles of some students.

[ToddG]

caleb, I think you handled it just right. One of the first things I ever wrote at PTC, before it even went live, was about The Worst Demo Ever (http://pistol-training.com/archives/20).

If you shoot enough, you'll make mistakes. Even the Leathams and Sevignys of the world get bad hits sometimes or fumble or make mental errors.

It's easy to see, then, that if you shoot enough while teaching, you'll make mistakes while teaching. It happens. I've had some embarrassingly bad demos over the years. I don't think the students have hated me for it.

I agree with the comment, don't reshoot unless you failed to demo the technique. Show of hands, how many of you have been on the range and heard me say after a demo, "Your turn... but with good hits" or "Now you do it... but not like that!" Sure, if that was the only demo I was doing, it could have an impact on the students' confidence in me as an instructor. But over the course of a day or two on the range, hopefully I come across as competent. And, as mentioned above, we all know that competent people sometimes make mistakes.

No one expects you to be perfect. If you were, you'd have to wear the funny hat and ride around in the back of that funny glass box truck.

[Aray]

After dropping a shot in a demo "Even a monkey falls out of a tree sometimes." - Ken Hackathorn

[Slavex]

I'll simply add, I do the same as the rest of you guys. I explain why I dropped the shot/s, or messed up, then ask the students to do it properly. Depending on the class and participants I have bounties on some of my drills/tests, so if students do better than me they get more than just a handshake, they get something cool too, be it cash, or a new knife. I always let them know that messed up demos are included in these bounties.

[MD7305]

As a student a foul up on a demo doesn't upset me much because it's a reminder that although the instructor is a great shooter we all make mistakes/misses/etc.

I remember in September at AFHF I was shooting vs. ToddG on plate racks for friendly competition. After knocking my plates all down before ToddG I felt embarassed for him to get schooled by a mortal in front of onlookers......but then I realized he was drawing, shooting, and reloading WHO.:o

I think instructors have to have a little humility to get up in front of folks with a chance of making a mistake. It's gonna happen but I think how it's handled makes the difference. Acknowledge it, have a laugh, and move on.

[Odin Bravo One]

Before I ever demo, I usually have the opportunity to discuss the rule that "Everyone misses.......at least sometimes".

It usually comes in the form of an average shooter losing their own mental game by getting overly worked up over a near miss on a low probability target. When I dick up a drill, it allows them to see that rule in action, without an emotional attachment, and helps to drive the point home that EVERYONE misses once in awhile, and how you let it affect you is more important than the actual miss itself.

I rarely demo drills, unless it is a more complex drill where the visual enhances the verbal instructions. That is not to say I don't demo drills, but the students paid for my experience, observations, and opinions to help make them better shooters/fighters, not to watch me shoot. The flip side to this is that I get relatively no "warm up", and go right into complex or difficult drills in front of an audience which gives me a greater chance of throwing shots, fumbling re-loads, and/or missing the par time. But it also presents a good PRODEV opportunity to perform on demand.

As a student, I know I have watched some great shooters miss, or otherwise crash and burn on a demo, some present company included. But I have no true memory of it. The sustained superior performances have far outweighed the impact of a botched drill or two in the overall impressions of the instructors and courses.

[Slavex]

not shooting related, but I had a karate instructor break his hand during a brick breaking demo. I was 16 and it just floored me. He laughed after the initial cursing. Looked at us and told us it was his fault for losing his focus and talking. He then used his Other Strong Hand to break the remainder of the bricks.

[Marty Hayes]

At leastyou have the guts to demo in front of the students. Many instructors don't. And, your handling of the situation is similar to mine during that very rare instance :) when I fail to meet my own expectation for the demonstration.

The purpose of a demonstration should be to show the students exactly what you want them to do, at the speed and level of accuracy you expect them to aspire to. It aids in communicating the lesson to be learned, and I have found it speeds instruction. Much easier to have someone understand what you want them to do, if you simply show them first. It also helps keep the instructor tuned up, as they need to do the act perfect every time.

[JMitchell]

A very smart man told me that students will have a hard time quantifying exactly how fast you shoot a demo but it will be very easy for them to tell whether or not you missed. That has always stuck with me.

[JodyH]

A very smart man told me that students will have a hard time quantifying exactly how fast you shoot a demo but it will be very easy for them to tell whether or not you missed. That has always stuck with me.
Unless you demo with a timer.

[ErnieB]

Caleb,

Every instructor who demos drills will have "that" day. The more I instruct the less I end up shooting for myself. A common misconception is that instructors must shoot more than anyone because that is what they do for a living. In my experience nothing is further from the truth. Not too long ago, I had a long time period where the only shooting I was able to get in was the doing demo's in courses. Between an intense course and travel schedule there was not much time to stay sharp with live fire practice. Essentially, the skills I brought to the table were what I had to rely on for demos. Relying on a good solid foundation in the fundamentals will never do you wrong. Once I got off the road I was able to get to the range and shoot for myself. As I've progressed I have learned to practice more efficiently and utilize specific drills to brush up on a particular skill set that may need polishing. I have botched my share of demos but thankfully have had more successes than failures. The key is attitude and the ability to play upon your mistake and use it as a teaching moment for your students. I think your approach is spot on. Good luck to you!

[hedjam]

Ernie your greatest asset beyond your skill level is your obvious love of what you're doing. It makes all present want more.

See you soon I hope.

Mike R.

[ToddG]

I had one of my worst "demo days" in recent memory yesterday. Not only did I blow both my FASTs but during the demonstration of why a press-out is faster and more accurate than a traditional punch/look/press draw, I managed to miss an 8" circle at seven yards not once... not twice... but three times. Finally I just had to look at the students and say, "Well... anyway, trust me, it works." :cool:

Today went far better (both my FASTs were clean under 5, etc) but yesterday I was expecting students to ask for a refund. :mad:

[JM Campbell]

I had one of my worst "demo days" in recent memory yesterday. Not only did I blow both my FASTs but during the demonstration of why a press-out is faster and more accurate than a traditional punch/look/press draw, I managed to miss an 8" circle at seven yards not once... not twice... but three times. Finally I just had to look at the students and say, "Well... anyway, trust me, it works." :cool:

Today went far better (both my FASTs were clean under 5, etc) but yesterday I was expecting students to ask for a refund. :mad:

Simple........your Glock perfection was protesting John Moses Browning's bastardized 9mm 1911 ;)