Best 223 bolt action "scout-ish" rifle

[shootist26]

I'm looking a "scout-ish" rifle in 223/556. Scout-ish in the sense that it's light, handy, and has iron sights. Magazine fed is good. I have a CZ527 in 7.62x39 that I really like, just as a point of reference.

Some things I have looked at on youtube:

CZ527 in 223 (basically the same as my 527 in 7.62)
Mossberg MVP Patrol (don't know if Mossberg makes quality stuff? how smooth is the bolt? does it work with 10 round p-mags?)
Ruger mini scout (don't like the massive 10 round single stack mag)

Anything else?

[schüler]

Tikka lite compact in 1/8 is a hoot, no irons tho. Shame they won't import something along the lines of the Battue Lite.

[Bigghoss]

Put the Mossberg MVP out of your mind right now. The bolt has a FLAP that works via gravity to feed rounds from the magazine.

http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7-Mossberg-MVP.jpg

[BobM]

There is a gunsmith selling scout mounts and iron sights designed to be mounted on Ruger American centerfire rifles. There's a thread about them on the scout rifle.org forum

[45dotACP]

I'd probably go Ruger American with a sturdy LPV and not worry about irons.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[jandbj]

There is a gunsmith selling scout mounts and iron sights designed to be mounted on Ruger American centerfire rifles. There's a thread about them on the scout rifle.org forum

https://www.doveguns.com/product-page/ruger-ranch-223-ar-mag-scout-rifle
I personally don’t like doveguns choice of iron sights and would go with something from XS, but other than that it looks like an option. Another option would be the same base rifle and add an XS mount and/or whatever irons you’d like from Skinner, XS, Williams, etc... Either way, add a good shooting sling! Andy Langlois Rhodesian and Ching slings are both excellent. If you don’t like leather or biothane, the wilderness Rhodesian is a great inexpensive nylon option too.

Or, just send you 527 in 7.62*39 to Jim Brockman for something like this:
http://empty-cases.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Brockman-CZ-1.jpg

http://empty-cases.com/blog/pseudo-scout-kinda-scout-or-just-scout-rifle-does-it-really-matter/

Skinner & NECG both make very nice receiver mounted peep sights for the 527 rifles.

[SteveB]

IMO, the CZ 527 is the best micro action out there.

[schüler]

...If you don’t like leather or biothane...

Ooooo, biothane slings. Didn't know they were a thing.

[MK11]

The Ruger plastic mags and some aftermarket mags have a much shorter footprint than the huge metal factory mag.

[MolonLabe416]

These are fun:

https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeStandard/specSheets/37117.html

If I already had a 527 in 762x39, I’d get another 527.

[LittleLebowski]

If it were my money....Q The Fix in .224 Valkyrie.

[MGW]

Dad just picked up a Ruger American Ranch in 223 that is handy as hell. His has the rotary mags. I tried to talk him into the new version that takes AR magazines but he wasn't listening.

No iron sights on it, unfortunately.

[shootist26]

I tried to talk him into the new version that takes AR magazines but he wasn't listening.


That does look cool. I wonder if the bolt design is similar to the MOssberg MVP. Just from reading online, it seems like the MVP has issues where the shooter frequently has to jiggle the bolt in order to get the bolt to reliably feed and seat. If anybody has personal experience with the MVP or the new Ruger American Ranch especially with 10 round p-mags I'd love to hear it.

[OlongJohnson]

People over on 24HourCampfire really like their Howa Minis. I'd probably go that way over a CZ, just because CZs generally require some "break in" to be as smooth as a new Howa, and the price difference seems to be about $300+. Accuracy seems to float around the same level of excellence for both.

Williams has sights that work on standard Howas. The .375 Ruger versions came pre-drilled for them. Don't know about the Minis, but having a barrel drilled and tapped (for those, or any other sights of your choice) shouldn't be a problem with a competent smith.

Also like Tikkas.

My approach would be pick the rifle with the other characteristics you want, then worry about fitting sights and optics.

[whomever]

That does look cool. I wonder if the bolt design is similar to the MOssberg MVP. Just from reading online, it seems like the MVP has issues where the shooter frequently has to jiggle the bolt in order to get the bolt to reliably feed and seat. If anybody has personal experience with the MVP or the new Ruger American Ranch especially with 10 round p-mags I'd love to hear it.

I just got one of the AR mag ones in 300BLK. The bolt doesn't have a flap or anything like that. It's a normal RAR bolt with enough relief cuts on the bottom to let it turn w/o hitting the magazine.

I'm not sure if the AICS and AR mag versions have the same bolt. If they do you could swap the modules to switch types (the magazine module comes right out when you remove the action).

The fore end is also stiffer than the ones from a couple of years ago - the interior is honeycomb patterned instead of square compartments.

ETA: the reason the bolt works w/o a flap is because it's 3 lobed; when the bolt is moving forward one of the lobes is on the bottom and it fits between the mag lips and picks up the cartridge.

[okie john]

People over on 24HourCampfire really like their Howa Minis. I'd probably go that way over a CZ, just because CZs generally require some "break in" to be as smooth as a new Howa, and the price difference seems to be about $300+. Accuracy seems to float around the same level of excellence for both.

Williams has sights that work on standard Howas. The .375 Ruger versions came pre-drilled for them. Don't know about the Minis, but having a barrel drilled and tapped (for those, or any other sights of your choice) shouldn't be a problem with a competent smith.

Also like Tikkas.

My approach would be pick the rifle with the other characteristics you want, then worry about fitting sights and optics.

The larger Howas have issues with the bolt stop screw breaking off. Not sure if this applies to the minis as well.


Okie John

[OlongJohnson]

The larger Howas have issues with the bolt stop screw breaking off. Not sure if this applies to the minis as well.


Okie John

Yeah, that factory screw is a BS defective part, the only wart on the rifle. It's designed with stress risers, and is additionally made on a screw machine (fancy lathe). It is subject to have circumferential tool marks to add "crack here" lines to the inherently bad design. There's a solution, though. Just needs a shoulder bushing machined for use with the appropriate metric socket head cap screw, which will be grade 12.9 with rolled threads and a proper underhead radius. Many, many times stronger than the OE setup. The stock would have to be inlet for the screw head. A little fiddly, but not difficult if you have lathe access.

[SteveB]

Yeah, that factory screw is a BS defective part, the only wart on the rifle. It's designed with stress risers, and is additionally made on a screw machine (fancy lathe). It is subject to have circumferential tool marks to add "crack here" lines to the inherently bad design. There's a solution, though. Just needs a shoulder bushing machined for use with the appropriate metric socket head cap screw, which will be grade 12.9 with rolled threads and a proper underhead radius. Many, many times stronger than the OE setup. The stock would have to be inlet for the screw head. A little fiddly, but not difficult if you have lathe access.

Or you could just buy the CZ. :cool:

[Trigger]

Tikka lite compact in 1/8 is a hoot, no irons tho. Shame they won't import something along the lines of the Battue Lite.

As a data point, I just bought a Tikka .223 with the 1:8 twist barrel. I like the action, the design, and the accuracy. I will restock it at some point on my own, with a stock of my own design.

[Malamute]

Interesting discussion. The Howa looks more attractive to me than the 527, but still leaves me wanting something else. Can anyone point me in the direction of a mini action bolt rifle with traditional fixed magazine, and safety that works as forward to fire? Id also prefer a wood stock.

I had a 527 about 10 or so years ago, i just never got to liking it. I didnt like the magazine sticking out where my hand wanted to be to carry it, the very limited scope ring options with their proprietary scope base system and too high rings for me, not bent quite enough bolt handle to get the scope very low, and to me, backwards safety. Nothing on the positive side about the gun was sufficient to get me to accept those things. Ive seen a Zastava mini-mauser, it looked good as far as how it was set up in regards to the things mentioned above, just not finished well, something i could deal with better than the functional things the 527 had. It seems the Zastavas arent coming in any more, or irregularly. Remington sold some guns based on their action, but I understand parts arent easy to get for them.

So, does a small action bolt action exist thats in what Id term traditional format, wood stock, fixed magazine with floor plate, standard direction safety, and available today or have basic support parts available?

[JodyH]

Can't get much more "Scout'ish" than a Steyr Scout in .223 or .243.

[OlongJohnson]

So, does a small action bolt action exist that's in what I'd term traditional format, wood stock, fixed magazine with floor plate, standard direction safety, and available today or have basic support parts available?

I think you're running up against the fact that the world isn't perfect. It may be that to get exactly what you want, you'll have to build it or have it built. Custom sucks, but sometimes it's the only way.

A custom bottom metal and internal magazine setup on a Howa Mini with a Boyd's stock might not be that expensive, depending on one's ability to build it. Having Jim Brockman build it would cost more.

[shootist26]

Can't get much more "Scout'ish" than a Steyr Scout in .223 or .243.
<shudder>
This is one instance where looks matter.

[JonInWA]

I just got a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 X 39. It's a gem of a carbine, and seems to be an absolute tackdriver-and that's with Wolf and Tula steel-cased cartridges. The supplied iron sights are actually quite nice, and the magazine is very easy to load.

Best, Jon

[HCM]

<shudder>
This is one instance where looks matter.

They ain’t pretty but they have great ergonomics for off hand field shooting. The trigger is good out of the box and the stock design seems to have been the inspiration for the Magpul bolt gun and shotgun stocks.

[Rex G]

They ain’t pretty but they have great ergonomics for off hand field shooting. The trigger is good out of the box and the stock design seems to have been the inspiration for the Magpul bolt gun and shotgun stocks.

I agree. Unusual appearance, but nice trigger, and the ergonomics work so well that I have very nearly bought a Steyr Scout, in spite of being left-eye-dominant and left-handed. With the optic mounted forward, rather than in the normal position over the action, it is easier to reach over-and-across with the left hand to run the bolt.

A Steyr Scout certainly looks worlds better than a Glock, anyway.

[shootist26]

Any more suggestions?

Cz527 in 223 is leading now, since I like my 7.62x39 version so much. Only thing I dislike would be the 5 round 223 mags. Just a bit more capacity would be great.

The ruger ranch that takes AR mags is tempting though I would need to send it out to get custom irons mounted.

Seen too many vids of unreliable Mossberg MVP operation for it to be considered.

[jwperry]

I have a Savage in .223. I think it was marketed as their "hog hunter" model? 1:9 twist, 24" barrel with functional, if crude, barrel mounted iron sights. It was less than $400(used) at the gun show. The rear sight caused some problems when trying to mount a scope to it over the action. But, it is accurate with the 55gr ammo I've used in it. It uses a detachable 4rd magazine and has the Accu-Trigger, which I find to be nice to shoot (I'm not a trigger connoisseur though...). I've never seen spare magazines floating around locally and my online searches for spares yields results upwards of $60ea.

Since it is lightweight, light recoiling and easy to pull the trigger on, my wife has claimed it as "hers" and that's her rifle if she actually goes to the range(once every couple years).

[shootist26]

What's the consensus on Savage rifles? Are they durable and can they be run hard?

The Savage 110 Scout in 223 looks intriguing. These take AICS magazines.
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110Scout

[schüler]

What's the consensus on Savage rifles? Are they durable and can they be run hard?

The Savage 110 Scout in 223 looks intriguing. These take AICS magazines.
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110Scout

If you're sold on the forward mounted scope then Savage offers a lot of value in form and accuracy.

There are compromises in function for a small percentage of serious shooters. IMO the most significant issue is Savage's weak factory extractor design and parts quality. If not replaced at timely intervals the extracted cases will fail to eject and flop back into the action. The SSS extractor kit is a definite upgrade for the factory parts but still not as positive as a Mauser or even Sako type.

Non-controlled feed, sloppy bolt run, rear peep design and robustness, Accu-Trigger are other negatives but not really a factor for most of the Lower 48 shooters who buy a Savage.

If 110 still refers to use of a long action receiver then it's interesting they list only short action (and shorter) chamberings.

[Bigghoss]

What's the consensus on Savage rifles? Are they durable and can they be run hard?

The Savage 110 Scout in 223 looks intriguing. These take AICS magazines.
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110Scout

The biggest drawback of the model 11 was the mags so this is better. If they had gone with AR mags I don't think I'd be able to resist buying one. Even as it is I really want a .223 and a .308.

[JR1572]

Anyone setup a Ruger American Ranch in 5.56 as a scout rifle? I just grabbed an AR mag version and looking for ideas.

[shootist26]

Never found a good option for iron sights. Otherwise I'd have bought the american ranch yesterday

[ECVMatt]

I have two Ruger American Ranches in 7.62x39. I put low power scopes on them and they are awesome! I really wish Ruger would offer a version with irons; I would probably buy another.

Here is a post of mine from a while back, but my son and I still put a lot of miles on the rifles and they still work great:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-american-ranch-7-62x39-follow-up.845741/

[Salamander]

I have a Ruger American Ranch on the way, picking it up in about a week. Mine is 6.5 Grendel, because I wanted a little more punch for some of the remote sites I work on which can have bigger critters, the 5.56 version was really tempting but wasn't in stock anywhere nearby.

The caliber choice limited my options, and it came down to Ruger, CZ 527, or Howa mini. After lots of research, I found plenty of people who liked each one. The Howa dropped out because for me, the mag release in front of the mag, proprietary mags, and the plastic bottom end were deal killers... especially the mag release, that's a no-go in some of the dense brush I need to move through. Lots of folks liked the action/barrel and the accuracy, and there's a guy who makes bottom metal but not with a detachable mag. The CZ got mixed reviews, some worked out of the box, some needed to be bedded; I could have lived with that, and like the wood stock. The Ruger won out because I can use it out of the box, the 16-inch barrel is easy to handle in brush, it's lightweight, good AR-pattern metal mags are readily available and not expensive, and it comes with a rail. Initially I'll drop a spare Aimpoint on it, maybe a scope later. And there's the option of reaching out to longer ranges with the right optics if that's ever desired.

That said, my needs are pretty specific. If I already had a CZ in 7.62 and liked it, that would weight the decision toward another CZ. The Ruger in 5.56 would work too. Will report on mine when I shoot it, just waiting on the stupid California 10-day thing. I'm also a fan of Tikka, just wasn't available in what I wanted.

[Totem Polar]

Does anyone else think that a 527 carb in .300BO would be the cat’s ass?

[Salamander]

Does anyone else think that a 527 carb in .300BO would be the cat’s ass?

They made a synthetic stock one until recently, the CZ website says "discontinued 2019." Looking at that site just made me want several other things though...

[awp_101]

Does anyone else think that a 527 carb in .300BO would be the cat’s ass?
So would .327 Fed.


Looking at that site just made me want several other things though...
Yeah, CZ has a way of doing that...

[JonInWA]

While I appreciate the magazine flexibility/increased capacity alternatives inherent to the Ruger offerings, I'm solidly in the CZ 527 camp. The CZ's offer exceptional quality, reliability, durability and accuracy. Especially for hunting/scouting purposes, I can easily live with the 5 round magazines (althought a 10 round one from CZ would be nice...).

The OEM iron sights are quite decent; mine is one of the older ones, with a brass bead front; I believe the newer ones come with a fiber optic front. The proportionately downsized Mauser micro action is flat-out superb. While I have yet to do it, the bolt is easily disasembled. The set trigger trigger option (the only "option" is if you choose to use it; CZ 527's come with 2 triggerpull options) is easily adjusted without any action disassembly required.

The only adds to mine have been a Boonie Packer Safari Sling and a Strike Hold Gear buttstock 2 magazine pouch (designed for Mosin Nagant clipped cartridges, but work magnificently with CZ 527 magazines).

https://www.strikehardgear.com/mosin-nagant-buttstock-pouch/?revpage=2#reviews

https://www.redi-mag.com/product/safari-sling/

https://i.imgur.com/gBWMj82h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CygsWXdh.jpg

In the future, I might consider adding a RDS or a rugged telescopic sight, but for now I'm very satisfied. If I was concerned over the need for increased accesssible ammunition portability, I'd consider Strike Hold Gear's 6 pouch bandoleer or similar:

https://www.strikehardgear.com/mosin-nagant-bandolier/

To me, the CZ 527 comes across as a blend of the Mauser 98K and M1 Carbine, with a cartridge and platform configured for both hunting and scouting needs. While I admire the Steyr Scout Rifle, the CZ fufulls my needs at a far lower price point, and with exceptional value.

Best, Jon

[Borderland]

I have a .223 Howa Mini that I never shoot mostly because I have 1500 HB set up as a precision rifle. I bought it with a light weight barrel which may not be offered anymore in the .223 Mini. I had no idea what I was buying at the time. Makes for a very light rife which I believe is one of the objectives for the scout concept. The action is drilled for scope mount or rail with no front sight.

The reason I don't like it mostly has to do with the LW barrel. It heats up pretty damn fast ( 4-5 rds) and it starts stringing the POI slightly. That wouldn't be a problem for a scout rifle but I'm not a scout ;) I shoot from a bench.

We can't even hunt deer with a .223 in this state so it's pretty useless. About all it might be good for is a LW scout rifle. Might be a slick setup with a sling and a dot.

[ECVMatt]

I really wanted to like the 527. I it a beautiful rifle, has sights, and I like the action. I liked them so much I have tried twice with them. My first was a 7.62x39. It was only so/so with surplus ammo and I had problems with light strikes. Magazines were also expensive and hard to find at the time, but the real deal killer for me was and is the safety. I really wish it was forward to fire. I sold this one off and got a .223. After a brief honeymoon, I can to the same conclusions and sold that one as well.

Having said that, every time I see one, I want one. They are a thing of beauty for sure.

I like the Rugers because they have been 100% with Golden Tiger ammo, the safety is forward to fire, they are more accurate than my CZ, and are a better rifle to be beat up in a truck. I was always hesitant to throw the CZ in the truck and head out for some desert exploring. Having said that, I complete understand why the CZ appeals to so many shooters.

I do feel that we are lucky to have so many choices right now.

[SecondsCount]

I have a .223 Howa Mini that I never shoot mostly because I have 1500 HB set up as a precision rifle. I bought it with a light weight barrel which may not be offered anymore in the .223 Mini. I had no idea what I was buying at the time. Makes for a very light rife which I believe is one of the objectives for the scout concept. The action is drilled for scope mount or rail with no front sight.

The reason I don't like it mostly has to do with the LW barrel. It heats up pretty damn fast ( 4-5 rds) and it starts stringing the POI slightly. That wouldn't be a problem for a scout rifle but I'm not a scout ;) I shoot from a bench.

We can't even hunt deer with a .223 in this state so it's pretty useless. About all it might be good for is a LW scout rifle. Might be a slick setup with a sling and a dot.

I had the lightweight barrel version and sold it when I found a deal on the heavy barreled model. It is a lot of fun to shoot and fast cycling with the short stroke of the mini action.

[JHC]

Option for irons on Ranch Rifles

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/21/iron-sights-ruger-american-ranch-nodak-spud/

70548

[shootist26]

Option for irons on Ranch Rifles

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/21/iron-sights-ruger-american-ranch-nodak-spud/

70548Hope that front sight stays on! This looks like a winner

[Robinson]

Option for irons on Ranch Rifles

I wonder if those are tall enough for use with a suppressor.

[Bigghoss]

Well that settles it. I have to get a Ruger American Ranch rifle.

[ldunnmobile]

Well that settles it. I have to get a Ruger American Ranch rifle.

I had one that had horrible ejection. Sent it to Ruger. Came back with only awful ejection. Sold it.

[SecondsCount]

If the purpose of the sights is for backup, I don't understand why someone would put irons on a $400 rifle. They are so many other things that could fail on a budget grade gun besides the optic.

My preference would be to start with a better rifle, put a scope that has a good reputation on it, and if you still have concern, install an offset RDS to handle the what-ifs.


I had one that had horrible ejection. Sent it to Ruger. Came back with only awful ejection. Sold it.

Mine shot like a $375 rifle which is what I paid, even when I put match ammo in it. Pretty sure Ruger buys those stocks at Chinamart for $3. The one I had was sold to someone who had zero care about accuracy, just wanted a short range suppressor host.

[Rex G]

I have not worked-out the weight part, but Uinta Precision has my attention. Fits onto AR15 lowers.

https://uintahprecision.com/