two PX4 v. 92 questions

[Earlymonk]

Hi, all:

Been chasing my tail on these questions for a while:


Would you recommend buying a goldilocks gun like the PX4C/CC or BOTH a deep concealment gun (e.g., J-Frame) and a larger heavier gun (e.g., 92 variant)?
In full-size Berettas, would you recommend the PX4 or a 92 variant (92A1 is my leading candidate)? Why?


My thinking on #1 is that sometimes I want to throw a gun in a pocket and go, i.e., avoid the "Bat Belt" routine. While the PX4C/CC might work in a SmartCarry (not sure) I KNOW it's not a pocket gun.

On #2, a 92 seems it would be flatter shooting due to the extra mass. Plus, I think I could fine tune the fit more with Ultra Thin grips and a short-reach trigger (because elf hands).

Interested in your thoughts.

[Doc_Glock]

I like shooting 92s better and they conceal well. However, it is hard to beat plastic for carry from a weight perspective.

[farscott]

Interesting question. Not sure there is a wrong answer. For me, if I had to start over, I would stick with the PX4C(C). But I have been around the M9/92FS since 1989. It is easy to find spare parts and magazines for the M9 because, well, it is the M9. One of the benefits of choosing DoD service pistols is part and holster availability, especially in those pre-Internet days.

But now, parts support for the PX4C(C) is as easy as typing www.langdontactical.com or www.beretta.com, and there is a fair amount of support among the holster manufacturers for the PX4X(C). So logistic considerations can be set aside. That leaves how easy the guns carry and how they shoot.

And, for my usage, the PX4CC is heads and tails above the M9/92FS. The polymer-frame guns are easier to carry and conceal, offer better trigger reach for my short fingers, and just provide better results on the timer. I do not have my PX4C yet, but I suspect it will be much easier to carry than my 92 CT. I do not intend to carry either, but if I was to do so, I suspect I would reach for the PX4C. If I did not have a ton of P30 inertia (guns, parts, holsters, practice, etc.), I probably would jump to the PX4CC and PX4C.

[Earlymonk]

Thanks, guys.

farscott, the CenTac is a dream gun of mine. I've fondled it, drooled on it, but never shot it. Do you have any range experience with it vs. the PX4C/CC? Are you saying that despite its shorter sight radius, smaller mass, etc. your splits are better with the PX4?

Aesthetically to my eyeballs and ergonomically in the hand, the CT feels like a gun worth 1/3rd again as much as a Mod 0, but if the performance isn't there, I guess I'm paying for BBQ points, which seems like dumbassery...

[DAB]

i carry my Cent-Tac. previously carried both the Px4 full size and Px4 compact. whatever i'm hauling around, it's in a proper holster. if money is the issue, get a Px4. full size is 17+1, and 20 round mags can be had. the compact is 15+1. the Cent-Tac is 18+1 using Mec-Gar mags, and i have a spare 18 rounder on my belt (the 20 rounders are too long for my taste).

as far as splits, that's secondary to accuracy and personal preference. i've shot all of these in IDPA matches, and any misses were my fault, not the fault of the pistol, as i've checked them all slow fire for accuracy.

[Bigghoss]

Was playing with a couple of holsters for my 92's that I just got in and I can tell you that for concealed carry the regular length 92 isn't the most comfortable. Really made me want a Centurion even more.

[BobLoblaw]

I will always choose the PX4CC over then Cent Tac. They shoot flatter (faster sight tracking) and are lighter. Trigger reach is a non-issue with the removable back straps on the PX4 series whereas the Cent Tac has a little longer reach so the sharp point on the tang rubs my thumb bone knuckle when I have my trigger finger where it needs to be. WC short reach trigger is a no go as my trigger finger sinks in too far and contacts the frame before ignition. The Cent Tac begins to shoot better than the PX4CC at 25 yds. I also have Langdon Tactical TIBs in both copies and while the 92 TIB is great, the PX4 TIB is awesome. It’s just as good if not better than the one that came in my mod 4.

[farscott]

Thanks, guys.

farscott, the CenTac is a dream gun of mine. I've fondled it, drooled on it, but never shot it. Do you have any range experience with it vs. the PX4C/CC? Are you saying that despite its shorter sight radius, smaller mass, etc. your splits are better with the PX4?

Aesthetically to my eyeballs and ergonomically in the hand, the CT feels like a gun worth 1/3rd again as much as a Mod 0, but if the performance isn't there, I guess I'm paying for BBQ points, which seems like dumbassery...

This may make no sense as I have trouble making sense of it, but I am considerably faster and shoot tighter/more accurately with the PX4CC compared to my 92G CT. I think part of it is trigger reach in that the PX4CC is a better fit for my hands. The PX4CC looks wrong, but it shoots right for me.

[Palmetto]

I’ve been down this road before. Here is my decision and approach. This is how I elected to arrive at my preferred carry options.

My Preferences:
-Carry guns shouldn’t have external manual safeties
-Don’t be the gun of the month guy
-Comfort is derived from proper equipment, more than light guns

I like DA/SA Guns and I like revolvers. My current carry tandem is my PX4CC with a 17 or 20 round magazine as my reload and my Kahr CT380. The 7+1 on my CT380 plus faster reloads bumped my S&W442 from my pocket gun choice.

In the past, it was a Kahr CW9 and a S&W442. Double Action Only on both.

To your question my recommendation to someone starting out.
1 PX4 Compact (12# WC spring)
2 Kahr CT380
3 Quality Holsters / belt
4 Upgrade PX4 as money allows or save for Compact Carry.
5 Buy training before more guns

I have all three sizes of PX4 in 9mm. The Compact is the perfect blend of size, concealment, capacity and speed. I find it is better than full size in many ways.

The biggest advantage of full size is longer sight radius if you want to try longer courses of fire.

Holsters: I have a nice collection of PX4 Holsters. My favorite is the R Grizzle IWB leather holster. It is a work of art. I previously carried a Sig P229 in one of his hand crafted Holsters. Makes PX4 Compact disappear and I forget it’s back there.

[Earlymonk]

As pretty as the CT is, LOTS of folks--in this thread and others--agree that the PX4C/CC is pretty much a unicorn gun. I think I need to stop chasing my tail...

Palmetto, thanks for your helpful post. I've always been intrigued by Kahrs, but there's not a lot of P-F love for them.

[medmo]

My thinking is to try and find one pistol that can fit the bill and train hard with it. I’ve had quite a few really small and light pistols. The problem is that no matter how many rounds I run through them I can’t achieve the same speed and accuracy I can with a slightly larger pistol. The Px4 Sub Compact might be a good answer. It isn’t a true pocket pistol but will fit in some. It will fit in a pocket holster an toted for a quick run to the store in your belt line. It also converts into a respectable home defense pistol. Everything is a compromise.24359

[HCM]

This may make no sense as I have trouble making sense of it, but I am considerably faster and shoot tighter/more accurately with the PX4CC compared to my 92G CT. I think part of it is trigger reach in that the PX4CC is a better fit for my hands. The PX4CC looks wrong, but it shoots right for me.

My experience is just the opposite. I shoot faster, more accurately and MUCH more consistently with my 92s.

The PX4C just doesn’t work for me. Even with the large backstrap and talon griptape I get shots which are off laterally and the recoil just feels weird.

[JSGlock34]

I love shooting my Wilson Combat/Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical. Accurate and soft shooting. Ernest Langdon tuned the trigger in mine, and the single action is comparable to my Wilson Combat 1911 (which is to say outstanding). I spent most of the day carrying mine around in a Milt Sparks VM2. But to be fair, the BrigTac is a big and heavy pistol, and despite its many attributes it is not an ideal EDC.

My trigger time on the PX4 Compact Carry is limited, but it struck me as surprisingly flat shooting. It wouldn't be my choice over the BrigTac for shooting long distance targets or for most competition duties, but I think it is the better concealed carry pistol.

[YVK]

The PX4C just doesn’t work for me. Even with the large backstrap and talon griptape I get shots which are off laterally and the recoil just feels weird.

I was occasionally pulling shots laterally, towards the strong side, with large backstrap as well. Usually on a DA shot, and to me that usually indicates that trigger reach is too long. Took it off, doing much better now. Still throw once in a while to the right but not when I am actually paying attention to grip and trigger press. Was shooting Garcia dot drill with PX4CC yesterday, nothing to show for humblebragging on p-f but not terrible either, and I don't shoot it as regularly as I should.

As an overall performance gun, I'd take a good 92 over PX4CC. PX4 full size doesn't push any buttons for me. I've shot and carried various 92G models, and still have a 92G with a Vertec slide, and a nice 92G Compact. They are awesome and I think are slightly less maintenance dependent. But when I look at them I am constantly reminded that Compact has a barrel 2 mm short of Glock 17, and is 30% heavier...I don't think PX4CC is a unicorn, I could wish for several things being different but as an overall package I think it is next to impossible to beat in a DA/SA carry size corner of the market.

[HCM]

I was occasionally pulling shots laterally, towards the strong side, with large backstrap as well. Usually on a DA shot, and to me that usually indicates that trigger reach is too long. Took it off, doing much better now. Still throw once in a while to the right but not when I am actually paying attention to grip and trigger press. Was shooting Garcia dot drill with PX4CC yesterday, nothing to show for humblebragging on p-f but not terrible either, and I don't shoot it as regularly as I should.

As an overall performance gun, I'd take a good 92 over PX4CC. PX4 full size doesn't push any buttons for me. I've shot and carried various 92G models, and still have a 92G with a Vertec slide, and a nice 92G Compact. They are awesome and I think are slightly less maintenance dependent. But when I look at them I am constantly reminded that Compact has a barrel 2 mm short of Glock 17, and is 30% heavier...I don't think PX4CC is a unicorn, I could wish for several things being different but as an overall package I think it is next to impossible to beat in a DA/SA carry size corner of the market.

I have XXL hands and the standard 92 fits me well. I started with the PX4 medium backstrap - the Large was an improvement in performance over the medium.

While it is size efficient, tne PX4C is not for me.

[Hambo]

Hi, all:

Been chasing my tail on these questions for a while:


Would you recommend buying a goldilocks gun like the PX4C/CC or BOTH a deep concealment gun (e.g., J-Frame) and a larger heavier gun (e.g., 92 variant)?
In full-size Berettas, would you recommend the PX4 or a 92 variant (92A1 is my leading candidate)? Why?


My thinking on #1 is that sometimes I want to throw a gun in a pocket and go, i.e., avoid the "Bat Belt" routine. While the PX4C/CC might work in a SmartCarry (not sure) I KNOW it's not a pocket gun.

On #2, a 92 seems it would be flatter shooting due to the extra mass. Plus, I think I could fine tune the fit more with Ultra Thin grips and a short-reach trigger (because elf hands).

Interested in your thoughts.

I carry your second option: 92 and a J frame. I have large hands so a 92 feels like it was made for me, and being a big guy I don't find it hard to conceal one AIWB or IWB in a proper holster. A PX4 would have to do a lot to make me change.

If you really have elf hands, try a Vertec frame (M9A3).

[Earlymonk]

Thanks very much, folks. Lots of goodness here.

medmo, thanks for the photos. Very cool that the Sub works for you across those different roles. Since the Compact and Full-Size are the ones Ernest has really wrung out, I'm looking to stay with the rotating barrel, if I go with the PX4 family.

HCM, you, Hambo, and Spencer K. are three people who prefer the 92. Spencer has written that the extra length helps AIWB. Just wondering if the 92 lovers all tend to be bigger people? At 5'8" 160#, I pretty much work for Willie Wonka...


I have large hands so a 92 feels like it was made for me, and being a big guy I don't find it hard to conceal one AIWB or IWB in a proper holster.

I think I need to get real about how I'm going to use this weapon(s): I will NOT be carrying daily, as I work in one of the strictest NPEs there is. Essentially, I need a DA/SA range, games, classes, bedside gun that will occasionally be carried. Quotes like the ones below are steering me towards a 92A1 with Ultra Thins, Langdon M9, or a CenTac--if I sell some other guns and a kidney. Despite my, um, stature, I think I could hide a 92 variant AIWB. Looks like I'm roughly the same size as Caleb G., and he manages! ;)



[PX4] wouldn't be my choice over the BrigTac for shooting long distance targets or for most competition duties, but I think it is the better concealed carry pistol.


As an overall performance gun, I'd take a good 92 over PX4CC. PX4CC ... is next to impossible to beat in a DA/SA carry size corner of the market.

[Hot Sauce]

PX4. It doesn't feel like an heirloom in the same exact way as a Wilson Beretta (and I do love them very much), but outside of the wow factor it is a better do-it-all-gun. You will also shoot it better than the others because you'll have fewer choices. CCW practice--should I shoot the J-frame today? Competition--should I shoot the 92 today? Normal range fun day--which gun to shoot? Dry firing at home--which gun to practice with?

You'll probably see better improvement working with the same platform whether dry/range/games/classes/etc. I know 90% of us here are gun whores, and it always feels good to get a new toy. But it feels infinitely better to see strong results when you practice.

[Earlymonk]

Thanks, HS. What size PX4 do you recommend?

[Hot Sauce]

PX4c. It's a do it all mid-size, like G19 or P07. Unless you have really big hands and it simply doesn't fit.

[MSparks909]

I like my PX4 CCs as long as I’m inside ~20 yards. Anything past that and I prefer the full size PX4 and it’s longer sight radius. I’ve been shooting my full size PX4s more lately and I like them a fair bit. Add a LTT TJIAB and you’ll have a hell of a trigger from the get go. I like how the PX4 is G convertible (decocker only) for free. Sight options aren’t vast but Ameriglo makes the LTT PX4 sights if you choose to go that route.

I’ve become a big fan of the PX4. Put 10,000+ rounds through my sample of 4 PX4s (2 full-size; 2 compact) last year with 0 issues or failures. But...I like my 92s better

[Earlymonk]

I’ve become a big fan of the PX4. ...But...I like my 92s better

You are officially unhelpful! ;)

[YVK]

I've been able to keep 5 shot groups inside a 3x5 card at 25 yards, including a DA shot, with my PX4cc several times. Every time I do it, I get in a state of a disbelief. But it does happen. I think the gun is insanely accurate and Ernest's trigger job is the key.

[JAD]

What size gloves do you wear?

[Earlymonk]

What size gloves do you wear?

Usually med. sometimes small; I think you and I have exchanged a virtual tiny high-five. ;)

Here's my mitt on a CZ P-01. (Easiest picture to put my hands on...see what I did there.)

24424

[MSparks909]

Usually med. sometimes small; I think you and I have exchanged a virtual tiny high-five. ;)

Here's my mitt on a CZ P-01. (Easiest picture to put my hands on...see what I did there.)

24424

I’d go with a PX4 C or PX4 based on your hand size alone. I’ve got M/L hands and the 92s fit me like a glove but they can be a bit big for people with smaller hands.

[Earlymonk]

I’d go with a PX4 C or PX4 based on your hand size alone...the 92s fit me like a glove but they can be a bit big for people with smaller hands.

Totally agree on a 92 with regular grip panels, but I made the mistake of fondling a CenTac, and the Wilson Ultra Thins are perfect. Makes me think I could put those--or the Langdon equivalents--on a 92A1 and be good to go. (Or just buy a Langdon M9...)

It's essentially this specialist/generalist question: 2-guns (a J-frame and a 92) vs. one gun (PX4c/CC). I'm thinking there's definitely merit in the classic "beware the man with one gun" argument...

[1986s4]

A friend just got a PX4 9mm that I hope to try out soon just for comparisons sake. But I am solidly in the 92 camp, besides owning numerous magazines and several holsters it is a proven performer despite the PX 4's recent resurrection.