124 or 147gr SD: which and why?

[SkippySanchez]

Curious why folk choose which they use. I've got both and have shot both but I'm too much of a 9mm novice to know which one I shoot best because of all the variables. I suppose a ransom rest would help but I'd rather use the pesos for ammo or training.

I've transitioned to a HK VP9 from .45 1911. Doing well with 115gr target ammo but want to practice with bullet weight similar to carry weight and don't want to experiment ca$e-by-ca$e until I'm settled on what I'm packing.

Anyhoo, why do you pack what you pack?


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[RJ]

I choose either Speer GD 124+p or Federal HST 147.

My preference is the GD, but it is hard to find in stock at affordable prices. HST seems easier to locate, at least for me.

The GD has a bit more zip to the recoil, but the 147 is not much different.

Either way, I will buy a couple boxes of 50 and shoot a couple magazines at 25 yds to know where it lands. Then I load it up. Generally I try and shoot it all off at least once a year.

[zuplex]

My preference is the GD, but it is hard to find in stock at affordable prices.

Is $20 for a box of 50 affordable?

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-p-speer-lawman-gdhp-50rds-53617

[GyroF-16]

Is $20 for a box of 50 affordable?

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-p-speer-lawman-gdhp-50rds-53617

Yes. In my experience, $20-$25 for a box good carry ammo is a good deal.
The only way to beat that price is by the case from SGAmmo when they have a deal.

[RJ]

Is $20 for a box of 50 affordable?

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-p-speer-lawman-gdhp-50rds-53617

That about where I’m at. I can’t afford a case, so I recently bought two boxes at www.sgammo.com for $20 apiece:

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50-round-box-9mm-luger-federal-hst-147-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-p9hst2

[Sigfan26]

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-federal-tactical-bonded-jhp-le9t1


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[SkippySanchez]

It's most likely I'll shoot 10-20 rounds of carry ammo a month or so, whichever I settle on, just to confirm POA/POI. I'm mostly curious about why some choose 124 or 147. I don't think the proverbial bad guy really cares one way or another.

It's just that I'd rather invest my practice $, measured in cases, in something akin to what I carry. So the question is, why 124? Or why 147?


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[witchking777]

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-federal-tactical-bonded-jhp-le9t1


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What is this stuff? I've never seen it before,is it a replacement for the 135 gr +p Tactical Bonded? How does it fare compared to 147 gr HST?

[Sigfan26]

What is this stuff? I've never seen it before,is it a replacement for the 135 gr +p Tactical Bonded? How does it fare compared to 147 gr HST?

Don’t know. But, it’s on the list... So I grabbed a case


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[SiriusBlunder]

So the question is, why 124? Or why 147?

I only carry what's on DocGKR's list.

I prefer standard pressure rounds and the only ones on the list and available the last time I stocked up were 147s.

[witchking777]

Don’t know. But, it’s on the list... So I grabbed a case


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Hmm I just checked the list,I must have overlooked it,wonder how it compares to my newer 147 gr HST. After doing my own 4 layer denim with cardboard milk carton tests I'm impressed with it. Recoil isn't horrible and accuracy is superb,hit a jackrabbit at 93 yds first shot DRT. Also,they now have two cannelures with some jacket material between them,reminds me of the Interlock design of Hornady's CD line.

[HeavyDuty]

Is $20 for a box of 50 affordable?

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-124gr-p-speer-lawman-gdhp-50rds-53617

WTF? No Illinois sales?

Edit - oh, I see - you need to register first.

[BehindBlueI's]

147. Because that's what I'm issued.

[blues]

When I tested several months ago on a B8, I found that the 147 grain standard HST was most accurate out of both my G26 and G19 when compared to the Gold Dot 124 gr standard, and HST 124 gr +P. As a result it is my choice for EDC.

That said, I'd be comfortable carrying any of those three rounds in terms of terminal ballistics and overall accuracy.

[Spartan1980]

For me it goes like this:

G17L and AR pistol = 127gr Ranger T +P+
Standard full size guns = 124gr +P (Gold Dot is my preference, but HST is fine too)
Short Barrel guns = 147 HST (+p is preferable but not mandatory)

[Default.mp3]

So the question is, why 124? Or why 147?
Mass beats glass, velocity beats metal and wood.
Also:

Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

[Drang]

Shoot both from your gun(s) and choose the one which does best. Generally speaking, the heavier rounds do better out of shorter barrels, but you could have three different guns and they each could "like" a different loading better.

[Hambo]

All things being equal (they're on Doc's list and shoot POA), I pick heavier bullets. Intellectually I know it doesn't make a difference, but the caveman part of my brain likes a bigger hammer.

[LtDave]

All things being equal (they're on Doc's list and shoot POA), I pick heavier bullets. Intellectually I know it doesn't make a difference, but the caveman part of my brain likes a bigger hammer.

My thoughts as well. I'm agnostic as to major brands, whichever round is most accurate and shoots to POA will get the nod.

[Clusterfrack]

I use Fed HST 147 in all my defensive guns. I prefer the recoil impulse of the 147 over 124, and the subsonic 147 seems noticeably quieter, especially compared to 124+P

I also like having one type of ammo that I can keep a stock of.

[HGGMB]

I like Federal HST 147 in my Glock 26.

Primary reason is that I can shoot it well out of the 26.

It also has a good reputation for performance, can be found at a reasonable price for the quality, and the 147 seems to lose fewer FPS than 124 out of the shorter barrel.

[oldtexan]

I use HST 147 gr standard pressure in all my 9mm carry/HD guns( G17, G19, Walther PPS, and Kahr PM9, formerly G34 also). I settled on it close to a decade ago and have had no reason to reconsider. The criteria that drove my decision: what was on Doc's list, what load(s) have a couple of decent quality training loads at same weight and similar velocity that shoot to approx same point of impact, cost, availability, sufficient accuracy, and excellent reliability. I found HST was then consistently less expensive than Gold Dots, and that Lawman 147 (53620) and American Eagle 147 shot to about the same POI as HST 147. I considered GD 124+P but when I made my choice , its price was higher than HST, and there were fewer 124 gr training loads at similar velocity.

[Clusterfrack]

I just discovered a 10 year old G17 mag full of Ranger T 127+P+. Gotta love off-the-shelf ammo that makes Major power factor!

[Robinson]

I use 147gr HST for carry and American Eagle 147gr flat point ammo for practice/training. My guns run well with 147gr ammo and I like the way it shoots. Plus I prefer shooting subsonic rounds at the range (a little easier on the ears).

[DocGKR]

FYI, Win 127 +P+ never worked as well as 147 gr Ranger Talon, 147 gr Ranger Bonded, 147 gr HST, etc...

[Sensei]

I use 147gr HST for carry and American Eagle 147gr flat point ammo for practice/training. My guns run well with 147gr ammo and I like the way it shoots. Plus I prefer shooting subsonic rounds at the range (a little easier on the ears).

+1

147 grain Federal HST checks all of the needed boxes; great terminal performance, excellent training alternative in the 147 AE, subsonic for suppressed shooting, and available. I shoot them in everything ranging from a Glock 43 to a MP5.

[GyroF-16]

All things being equal (they're on Doc's list and shoot POA), I pick heavier bullets. Intellectually I know it doesn't make a difference, but the caveman part of my brain likes a bigger hammer.

I’m with Hambo. When there’s a choice, I like the bigger hammer.

[Tom Duffy]

With my P30L, I was getting a 1204 fps average with Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. I thought that was pretty impressive for non boutique ammo. For my Glock 43, I use subsonic 147 standard pressure since that's as much recoil I feel comfortable with such a small grip.

[Trooper224]

I typically use 124s since the 147s shoot significantly higher than POA in my Berettas. Usually Gold Dots, either +P or standard. The standard pressure 124 GDs chrono at 1202 fps and the +Ps at 1220, so not a lot of difference.

[MDFA]

147 HST in my Glock 19 and 43 as well as my wife's S&W M&P 2.0 and Shield. Works great in all of them. And as others have said, you can actually find it for a reasonable price.

[RJ]

147 HST in my Glock 19 and 43 as well as my wife's S&W M&P 2.0 and Shield. Works great in all of them. And as others have said, you can actually find it for a reasonable price.

I’m not sure whether it’s just me or what, but the last two times I needed a few boxes of SD ammo, I was able to find affordable Federal HST 147 much easier than Speer 124+p.

[Tawadc95]

I chose 147 HST based on Dr. Roberts research, his work is incredibly detailed and all evidence based

Not opposed to the Barnes 115 either for the same reason as above but find the 147 recoils less in my Shield.

POA/POI difference between the two is not enough to treat differently.

[dragonmouse]

Fed Hst 147 here. That's what shoots best in MY gun. I understand those who believe that smaller faster is as good as heavier slower.... that's an age old argument across the interwebz but I can't get this picture out of my head. Stationary target.... Hit one with a vw bug going 30mph... then hit same type of target with an 80,000 lb big rig at 30mph and see what damage there is. Seems to me physics is physics, I will always go heavy if my firearm will perform. YMMV

[Trooper224]

Fed Hst 147 here. That's what shoots best in MY gun. I understand those who believe that smaller faster is as good as heavier slower.... that's an age old argument across the interwebz but I can't get this picture out of my head. Stationary target.... Hit one with a vw bug going 30mph... then hit same type of target with an 80,000 lb big rig at 30mph and see what damage there is. Seems to me physics is physics, I will always go heavy if my firearm will perform. YMMV

124 or 147 really makes no difference in any but the most specialized circumstances. Buy whatever's on the shelf and on the list, then figure out where it hits in your gun. You also need to go back to physics class.

[txdpd]

I've transitioned to a HK VP9 from .45 1911. Doing well with 115gr target ammo but want to practice with bullet weight similar to carry weight and don't want to experiment ca$e-by-ca$e until I'm settled on what I'm packing.

Back in the good old days when cops carried .357, .41, and .44 revolvers it wasn't unheard of for cops to shoot nothing but powder puff target loads, and suit up for game day with full bore magnums that they were not capable of handling. Like a lot of things with a little bit of truth behind them, things get taken way out of context. If it cycles your pistol, all the off shelf 9mm is all close enough in terms of recoil. Relative to each other 115 and 124 9mm will pretty much shoot POA/POI at 25 yards, 147gr will impact a couple inches higher. Usually they are all well within the margins of what us mere mortals require. Test, verify and remember in case you ever find yourself shooting at business cards to see who buys the first round.

Other than the 9mm part, there isn't a compelling need to match your practice and carry ammo.

[LockedBreech]

I exclusively carry the 124-grain +P Speer Gold Dot for the following three reasons:

1.) It's on "The List" - so it is backed by the scientific method of repeatable performance through myriad barriers
2.) It has been on the street long enough for there to be thousands of data points about its success
3.) It is reasonably priced for a premium self-defense loading and reasonably available through my preferred ammunition retailers, generally the superb and consistent sgammo.com (no affiliation, just a happy customer)

I would carry the 147-grain HST if I did not carry the Gold Dot, and it is in fact my fallback load if the Gold Dot dries up.

For the past year or so I have been strongly considering a universal switch to 147-grain HST. Not for any tactical timmy reason, just because it tends to run a little cheaper while still checking the same boxes as 124+P GD and will save me some money in the long run. Just seems a little arduous having to re-check all my guns with a new load.

[blues]

deleted

[ffhounddog]

I am just nuts. In my gen 3 Glock 19 I have been carrying and using 115 grain +p+ since I got it 2005 time frame. Only reason why is because I have had to use it once and it worked. In my Glock 26 I use 147 grain HST because it works for others with no problem. I just bought 2000 rounds of 115 grain +p+ recently for the price of what I would have bought 45ACP ball ammo and I could change but I am lazy and I mostly carry my Glock 26 with 147 grain HST anyway.

[deputyG23]

I am just nuts. In my gen 3 Glock 19 I have been carrying and using 115 grain +p+ since I got it 2005 time frame. Only reason why is because I have had to use it once and it worked. In my Glock 26 I use 147 grain HST because it works for others with no problem. I just bought 2000 rounds of 115 grain +p+ recently for the price of what I would have bought 45ACP ball ammo and I could change but I am lazy and I mostly carry my Glock 26 with 147 grain HST anyway.
My off duty G26 is loaded with XM9001, which is the +P version of the 9BPLE (+P+) or 9BP (standard pressure). It chronographs at about 1180 fps in the 26 and 1258 fps in my old G19. It is available now for about .28 cpr and is extremely accurate. It is not one of the loads on "the list", but I suspect it would do its job if I do mine.

[sierra 223]

If I could pick my own ammo Federal HST 147 would be my choice.

[Beat Trash]

I'm issued Winchester Ranger T 147gr, so this is what I carry in my issued duty pistol. It's also what I carry in my off duty and BUG (The price is right..). I participated in ballistic workshops we hosted in 2011 when adopting this round as well as a ballistic workshop we hosted last fall. Both times the 147 gr HST round was included in the test. The performance between the two rounds was close enough to call it a draw.

In 2011 we also tested the Speer 124 gr +p. Last fall we tested the Speer 147 gr G2 loading. I also included my BUG (M&P Shield) in the test to compare the 3.1" barrel vs the 4" barrel of the issued M&P9. The 147 rounds out of the Shield's short barrel performed at an acceptable level, reaffirming that there is no need to use different rounds for different size guns.

To be honest, if I were shopping for carry ammunition, I could live with any of the rounds I mentioned. If I had a gun that was ammunition specific, I would dump the gun in a heartbeat.

I prefer the recoil impulse from the 147 gr rounds vs. the 124 +p when shooting from smaller guns. But I had to shoot both side by side to notice the difference as it's not that much of a difference in reality.

Since adopting the Ranger T ammunition in 2011, we have not had a single incident in which the ammunition failed to expand or to penetrate to an acceptable level during an OIS incident. So long as the officer placed the round(s) in the appropriate location, the ammunition performed as expected.

In a year or two when I retire and issued ammunition is no longer a consideration, my carry ammunition will still be a 147 gr loading.