Caracal Video

[jstyer]

Hey guys,

I know there's been alot of interest on PF about the Caracals, so I thought I'd share this pretty good viewing of the Caracal F and C models. I really like MAC's presentation style, and he gives us a good look at the guns.

Enjoy!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpprZgirKs&feature=channel_video_title



(I'm not affiliated with Military Arms Channel or 21st Century Firearms in any way.)

[SecondsCount]

I like their videos as well, thanks for posting.

[JB326]

The Caracal definitely seems intriguing and I'm watching with great interest to see how they shake out. I'm hesitant to be sending anymore money to the UAE than I already do though (GASOLINE!). I understand that the UAE is "friendly", but still.

[jetfire]

If it helps, very little of our imported oil comes from the UAE; the likely probability is that your gas money is going to Canada, Mexico, or Saudi Arabia.

To the Caracal: I really want to like it, because it has a great trigger, feels nice to hold, shoots soft, but the sights man, the sights are terrible.

[ExMachina]

If it helps, very little of our imported oil comes from the UAE; the likely probability is that your gas money is going to Canada, Mexico, or Saudi Arabia.

To the Caracal: I really want to like it, because it has a great trigger, feels nice to hold, shoots soft, but the sights man, the sights are terrible.

are you referring to the quick sights or to the standard straight eights?

what did you not like about them?

thanks

[jetfire]

The standard sights, actually. Two major issues: I don't like how narrow the rear notch is, I prefer a lot more light around my front sight post; the 2nd issue is that the rear sight is part of the slide so I can't change it out for a Warren or another sight model. If it was just a standard dovetailed sight I wouldn't be complaining at all because I could fix it, but the way it's set up right now I'm stuck with their sights.

[ExMachina]

The standard sights, actually. Two major issues: I don't like how narrow the rear notch is, I prefer a lot more light around my front sight post; the 2nd issue is that the rear sight is part of the slide so I can't change it out for a Warren or another sight model. If it was just a standard dovetailed sight I wouldn't be complaining at all because I could fix it, but the way it's set up right now I'm stuck with their sights.

Ah. Good to know. I suppose there's little to do about the integral nature of the rear sight but do you think the first issue could be solved with a narrower front? That at least looks like a simple dove tail (of some sort)

[Comedian]

I handled the full-size and compact at a LGS yesterday. I really liked the grip and trigger pull. Didn't like the rear sight (and lack of night sight options) or the flat mag release. The trigger is lighter and smoother than a Glock. The reset felt slightly longer than a Glock and not as forceful. Overall, i do like these pistols.

[ExMachina]

Well, I thought it over and decided that $395 was too good a deal to pass up on a gun that seems overall very solid and well-thought out.

Not disappointed in the slightest (and in fact feel like I got away with something)

The caveat regarding the sights is valid, but for me I really like the rear sight so am not upset that I can only swap out the front.

The trigger is amazing and is unlike other striker fired guns I've tried (really like a short DAO with minimal stacking).

Would recommend a Caracal to anyone wanting a quality gun that has a small risk of becoming a novelty :p

[boylit]

Test shot the Caracal F in both standard and quick sights...

Immediately ordered a Caracal F QS... The agony of license* waiting begins...

http://img.tapatalk.com/70c65bfc-a8da-5b2b.jpg

----

* why license?

I'm from the Philippines. Gun ownership here is a licensed privilege not a right.

To get a license, one needs to obtain a clearance from various LE agencies, undergo a drug test, pass a psych test and enroll in a gun safety seminar.

Getting a permit to carry outside one's home has even more stringent requirements.

If you're an upstanding citizen, getting a license is easy. We can license pistols, rifles, smg (semi and full auto), so on. License processing takes about 2-3 weeks. Additional 2-3 weeks to get a permit to carry.

[Tamara]

Am I the only person that gets stabbed in the thumb by the slide release on these things?

[theblacknight]

So its really sweet except for the sights.


Sounds like what glock used to be. If someone makes the jump and produces a aftermarket set, it would be no prob getting one of the thousands of garage kydex guys to make you some kit, it sounds like a winner.

I'm sure JJ will prob have a new sight set out soon,and no doubt selling them on his site.

[167]

* why license?

I'm from the Philippines. Gun ownership here is a licensed privilege not a right.

To get a license, one needs to obtain a clearance from various LE agencies, undergo a drug test, pass a psych test and enroll in a gun safety seminar.

Getting a permit to carry outside one's home has even more stringent requirements.

If you're an upstanding citizen, getting a license is easy. We can license pistols, rifles, smg (semi and full auto), so on. License processing takes about 2-3 weeks. Additional 2-3 weeks to get a permit to carry.

That is cool. I grew up in the southern Philippines (General Santos & Davao City) and never knew any of that. I always wondered.

[theblacknight]

peep the fiber fronts at 2:05.It looks like the "combat" sighted version with the rear infront of the port, has a little more daylight round the sight. I'd like to shoot one of those models with the fibers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErUES8vJlo&feature=related

[TGS]

* why license?

I'm from the Philippines. Gun ownership here is a licensed privilege not a right.

To get a license, one needs to obtain a clearance from various LE agencies, undergo a drug test, pass a psych test and enroll in a gun safety seminar.

Getting a permit to carry outside one's home has even more stringent requirements.

If you're an upstanding citizen, getting a license is easy. We can license pistols, rifles, smg (semi and full auto), so on. License processing takes about 2-3 weeks. Additional 2-3 weeks to get a permit to carry.

Not all of the USA is as awesome as the rest. In several states, we also have to be licensed...here in New Jersey, you need two character references, $65 for finger prints, and fill out a few forms about mental health and whatnot. In my state of NJ, not only do we have to be licensed, but for each pistol you buy another permitting process has to be undertaken. I'm currently waiting on another pistol purchase permit I applied for on May 1st....it could come tomorrow, or it could come weeks from now. Concealed carry? Not even part-time law enforcement officers with verified death threats from violent criminal organizations can get a concealed carry permit here.

In New York City, it's way worse. In Washington DC, it's way worse. The fact that my stay in NJ is temporary means it doesn't bother me too much....

[Ed L]

Am I the only person that gets stabbed in the thumb by the slide release on these things?

I put over 2500 rounds through a compact and a full sized and did not experience this. However, I did experience this immediately when I tried an H&KP30. But I could see how someone could experience this with the Caracal.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/caracal1.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/caracal2.jpg

After I got done writing the article, I returned the full-sized Caracal but exercized my option to buy the compact one. The compact one has the Quick-see sights.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/caracal1-1.jpg

They are great for shooting the FAST drill, but can have issues at longer distances due to the short sight radius and the fact that there isn't much space viewable around the front sight when viewed through the rear sight.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/caracal2-1.jpg

[boylit]

Not all of the USA is as awesome as the rest. In several states, we also have to be licensed...here in New Jersey, you need two character references, $65 for finger prints, and fill out a few forms about mental health and whatnot. In my state of NJ, not only do we have to be licensed, but for each pistol you buy another permitting process has to be undertaken. I'm currently waiting on another pistol purchase permit I applied for on May 1st....it could come tomorrow, or it could come weeks from now. Concealed carry? Not even part-time law enforcement officers with verified death threats from violent criminal organizations can get a concealed carry permit here.

In New York City, it's way worse. In Washington DC, it's way worse. The fact that my stay in NJ is temporary means it doesn't bother me too much....

yeah... same here... every pistol needs a separate license...

the issue of whether one can wear his/her pistol on the body in a concealed holster has not been resolved here... years ago, the head of police made it clear that the pistol must be in a bag to be carried out of home... that restriction is not found in the current permit-to-carry card...

there are 2 types of permits to carry here for civilians:
1) PTCFOR : permit to carry firearm outside home. with this one can carry a loaded firearm outside the home subject to limitations (only 50 rounds max allowed, some areas are designated firearm-free zones including malls, bars/drinking places are definite no-nos). this will require that the applicant present proof of threat as certified by his/her local police unit and/or local court. when the threat is deemed over, the ptcfor will likely be revoked. only pistols can be applied for a ptcfor. only 1 pistol covered by ptcfor can be carried at any one time.
2) PTT : this is a point-to-point permit that can be valid from 1 to 90 days. non-club members have to apply for each time they transport the firearm. gun club members get a 90 day ptt that's home-to-club and allows them to carry up to 500 rounds provided the ammo is kept in a separate case and in a different compartment of one's vehicle. any licensed firearm can be applied for ptt including a full automatic smg. any number of firearms with a valid ptt can be transported at any time.


-----


went back to the shop and was told the license is still under processing... sad that they won't allow me to apply for the license myself... shop earns 50-75 usd in the licensing process...

while i was there, i took their demo F QS again for a test fire... i only noticed now that the back of the pistol still has the dot... lining up the 2-dot + the QS posts made for a "closer to traditional" sighting... had the shop lend me the F SS (standard sights) and i did a back-to-back again... shooting using the dot on the QS system made for a similar experience with the regular 2-dot SS... albeit was a bit different in that the QS posts and front sight were both in-focus as opposed to the SS where the rear posts were blurred when i aimed... i was hitting roughly the same accuracy at 20m on both pistols but the SS system had me taking longer to get line up the sights...

so it is possible to rely only on the QS + front sight to do quick acquisition and use the rear dot for more precise shooting...

feeling even better about selecting the F QS...

[Packy]

yeah... same here... every pistol needs a separate license...

the issue of whether one can wear his/her pistol on the body in a concealed holster has not been resolved here... years ago, the head of police made it clear that the pistol must be in a bag to be carried out of home... that restriction is not found in the current permit-to-carry card...

there are 2 types of permits to carry here for civilians:
1) PTCFOR : permit to carry firearm outside home. with this one can carry a loaded firearm outside the home subject to limitations (only 50 rounds max allowed, some areas are designated firearm-free zones including malls, bars/drinking places are definite no-nos). this will require that the applicant present proof of threat as certified by his/her local police unit and/or local court. when the threat is deemed over, the ptcfor will likely be revoked. only pistols can be applied for a ptcfor. only 1 pistol covered by ptcfor can be carried at any one time.
2) PTT : this is a point-to-point permit that can be valid from 1 to 90 days. non-club members have to apply for each time they transport the firearm. gun club members get a 90 day ptt that's home-to-club and allows them to carry up to 500 rounds provided the ammo is kept in a separate case and in a different compartment of one's vehicle. any licensed firearm can be applied for ptt including a full automatic smg. any number of firearms with a valid ptt can be transported at any time.


-----


went back to the shop and was told the license is still under processing... sad that they won't allow me to apply for the license myself... shop earns 50-75 usd in the licensing process...

while i was there, i took their demo F QS again for a test fire... i only noticed now that the back of the pistol still has the dot... lining up the 2-dot + the QS posts made for a "closer to traditional" sighting... had the shop lend me the F SS (standard sights) and i did a back-to-back again... shooting using the dot on the QS system made for a similar experience with the regular 2-dot SS... albeit was a bit different in that the QS posts and front sight were both in-focus as opposed to the SS where the rear posts were blurred when i aimed... i was hitting roughly the same accuracy at 20m on both pistols but the SS system had me taking longer to get line up the sights...

so it is possible to rely only on the QS + front sight to do quick acquisition and use the rear dot for more precise shooting...

feeling even better about selecting the F QS...

kabayan!

Which gunstore and how much is your caracal?

[boylit]

kabayan!

Which gunstore and how much is your caracal?

Armscor... Got it at gun show price already...

They're early for July...

[Tamara]

I put over 2500 rounds through a compact and a full sized and did not experience this. However, I did experience this immediately when I tried an H&KP30. But I could see how someone could experience this with the Caracal.

Shannon at Coal Creek picked one up when they were coming in through the company in Knoxville. I found the slide stop an immediate turn-off; when I slide my hand into the nice, high grip encouraged by the design, it digs right into the base of my strong-hand thumb. :(

[theblacknight]

Ed, is calling shots and sight tracking much different with that sight set up? Do you know the availiblity of the fiber fronts?

Plus I was thinking it wouldnt be too hard to hard someone with a mill make you some more daylight on the stock fullsize rear sight and be good for production whenever they approve the gun.

[Ed L]

Ed, is calling shots and sight tracking much different with that sight set up? Do you know the availiblity of the fiber fronts?

Plus I was thinking it wouldn't be too hard to hard someone with a mill make you some more daylight on the stock fullsize rear sight and be good for production whenever they approve the gun.

I could swear I saw some photos of some with Fiber Optic front sights, but am not sure where they are available from or even if the ones photographed are in the US. The distributor for the US is Lipsey's who doesn't list any:

https://www.lipseys.com/mfg.aspx?mfg=CARACAL

I imagine you could have someone mill the Quicksee rearsight carefully. But if you are doing this I would not think that the quicksee is the right sight for you. From my experience it is indeed quicker to pick up at the expense of less precision at distance. There is not problem shooting tight groups at close range--say 7-10 yards.

Here is another photo of the Caracal compact with the quick see sights:

https://www.lipseys.com/eImages/Caracal-C%20QAS.jpg

I think it has to do with the short sight radius and the fact that there isn't a great deal of light around the front sight when viewed through the rear sight. It only became an issue at longer distances, like 50 feet and up.

Here is what I wrote about the Quick See sights in my SWAT article:

"Although the Compact’s Quick See sights are true to their name, anything less than perfect alignment magnified vertical dispersion at longer ranges. Not only did the gun have a short sight radius, but when looking through the rear sight the width of the front sight did not allow for much light on either side. In shooting a group with some standard velocity Black Hills 115 grain hollowpoints, I managed to put four shots into three inches at 25 yards. However, my less than perfect vertical alignment resulted in the fifth shot hitting eight inches above the rest of the group."

[ExMachina]

Am I the only person that gets stabbed in the thumb by the slide release on these things?

No, I'll wager you're not the only one, though I've not personally had a problem with it.

So far the Caracal is proving to be a very nice, reliable gun.