LPVO vs. Bigger Optic and Offset RDS

[joshs]

For general purpose ARs,which for me is competition and hunting, I've always used some type of low power variable optic that starts a 1x (or at least close to it). This is by far the most popular choice in multigun competition, but I think that is mainly based on the rule set. Most matches use a single optic rule to differentiate the "Tactical" division from "Open." Most shooters don't want to use a rifle that puts them in Open because their handgun and shotgun are not "competitive" in Open.

My interest has recently shifted from traditional multigun matches to DMR type matches (like this (http://peacemakernational.com/prsdmr)) and 2 gun. For these matches, having an optic with more magnification, an exposed (accurate and repeatable) elevation turret, adjustable parallax, and a larger objective to make positional shooting at higher magnifications easier are a distinct advantage.

I could even switch without much of a weight penalty compared to my current LPVO. A Leupold VX3i LRP 4.5-14x50 and an offset RDS are about the same weight as my current LPVO. To me this seems like a substantially more capable setup with little downside (other than shooting in Open in 2 gun and 3 gun).

Does anyone have significant experience comparing the scope and offset RDS vs. an LPVO? What was your preference?

I've used offset irons quite a lot, but have very little experience with an offset RDS.

[Talionis]

I have recently started shooting Open (well, 2x4) in multigun. To that end I've been experimenting with an offset RDS to augment my normal 1-6 LPVO. So far my experience is that offset RDS is excellent even with the LPVO. Right now it is just proof of concept with the cheap primary arms blem RDS that many here bought, but the effect is that the scope doesn't get dialed down to 1x except for complete hosefests.

With my set up, if I'm in the eye box on the scope, the dot will be there immediately with a slight rotation of the gun. Not that different than offset irons really, but better because it's a dot.

Before I tried it, I was somewhat concerned about the potential effect on my peripheral vision with having the extra optic housing right there on the side, but in experience the effect is minimal since I am looking over it when the gun is not rotated.

The one downside I've noticed is the change in how the gun behaves in recoil when canted. At least with how mine is set up, since the comp is clocked normally, it is not as neutral when using the offset rds and I have to muscle the gun more to keep it controlled. Not an issue with close paper etc. But it's slower for me on stuff like offhand 100 yard skinnies for follow up shots. But then, that's what the primary optic is for anyway.

I'm looking into optics in the 2-10x range to replace the LPVO on mine since I don't see a need for a scope with 1x with how well the offset RDS is working.

[YVK]

I've had some limited experience with a 2.5x10 NF and an offset AP. This was on a 7.62 gun and I don't really think it applies here but, in tune with what Talionis said, controlling the rifle in a canted position was a meh experience. I actually ended up with a bruise on my face. I also remember wanting a slim and, preferably, a round tube for a consistent grip. Thirdly, it did require some playing with mounts to achieve an ability to find the dot/reticle quickly when rotating the rifle.

[SeriousStudent]

Paging Jack Leuba......

[littlejerry]

I started using a Fastfire III as a piggyback to my NXS 2.5-10 this year. Burris sells a 30mm mount which keeps the sight very low- if I peak over the elevation turret of the NXS I can see the dot. Still a "chin" weld but not nearly as distracting as I thought it would be in use. It also works really well for weak side shooting.

I'm not competing in sanctioned 3GN matches so I don't care about equipment class. For biathlons/run and guns I want a rifle with the least amount of stuff hanging off the sides.

[rainman]

I've had some limited experience with a 2.5x10 NF and an offset AP. This was on a 7.62 gun and I don't really think it applies here but, in tune with what Talionis said, controlling the rifle in a canted position was a meh experience. I actually ended up with a bruise on my face. I also remember wanting a slim and, preferably, a round tube for a consistent grip. Thirdly, it did require some playing with mounts to achieve an ability to find the dot/reticle quickly when rotating the rifle.

This mirrors my experience with the same scope and an offset Aimpoint T1 on a 5.56 gun. I've since removed the T1 and concentrated on becoming more proficient at close distance with the NF set to 2.5x. Neither setup is optimal IMO and I can see situations where either would be slightly better. Caveat; all of my experience has been on the square-range, albeit under the direction of a very good instructor. Very interested in hearing replies from those with actual experience.


-Rainman

[littlejerry]

Disclaimer: I'm a gamer, not a professional.

I don't like the T1 type red dot for an offset RDS. The housing is thick and the FOV sucks compared to the smaller(and more fragile) Fastfire III. I also don't like the 45 degree offset because your left eye is blocked by the primary optic, giving you a very limited view and negating the benefits of both eyes open.

The ~4 inch offset from a piggyback setup isn't ideal, but I found that using a 100y zero helped. 0-30 yards is pretty close to the same offset, and unless you're shooting 2" circles really close it's easy to hold on the top edge of your target and get hits.

[Talionis]

Disclaimer: I'm a gamer, not a professional.

I don't like the T1 type red dot for an offset RDS. The housing is thick and the FOV sucks compared to the smaller(and more fragile) Fastfire III. I also don't like the 45 degree offset because your left eye is blocked by the primary optic, giving you a very limited view and negating the benefits of both eyes open.

The ~4 inch offset from a piggyback setup isn't ideal, but I found that using a 100y zero helped. 0-30 yards is pretty close to the same offset, and unless you're shooting 2" circles really close it's easy to hold on the top edge of your target and get hits.

My experience doesn't match that at all. Using a T1 size offset RDS on a 45degree mount my vision on the target plane is very similar to that of my rifle with a traditionally mounted T1 size RDS. More is blocked below the target plane, but that isn't really a concern for my use of the gun. In fact, I can see more by canting the gun than I can by looking over the scope body as with a piggyback MRDS.

I guess all that really says is that everyone's vision and preference is unique to them.

[LittleLebowski]

Paging Jack Leuba......
Failure2Stop

[ASH556]

I can tell you that offset and piggybacked does not work well at all. I had this setup with a Docter over a Nightforce on a Larue mount.

[Talionis]

I can tell you that offset and piggybacked does not work well at all. I had this setup with a Docter over a Nightforce on a Larue mount.

Are you referring to something like this? 23874

[ASH556]

Are you referring to something like this? 23874

No, this:

23875
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-j-point-dr-optics-fastfire-attachment-lt137/

[Talionis]

No, this:

23875
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-j-point-dr-optics-fastfire-attachment-lt137/

Oh, yeah. That looks terrible.

[littlejerry]

My experience doesn't match that at all. Using a T1 size offset RDS on a 45degree mount my vision on the target plane is very similar to that of my rifle with a traditionally mounted T1 size RDS. More is blocked below the target plane, but that isn't really a concern for my use of the gun. In fact, I can see more by canting the gun than I can by looking over the scope body as with a piggyback MRDS.

I guess all that really says is that everyone's vision and preference is unique to them.

What mount are you using?

I'll post some pics tomorrow. My setup never worked well but I always suspected the mount was part of the problem and I wasn't willing to spend a small fortune on different offset mounts.

[TAZ]

LaRue makes a ring half for the RMR that is decent LT742. It puts the RMR at a real small rotation. Id wager round 30 degrees, maybe less. I had it on my 18" heavier barreled upper that has a 2-10 on it as the primary optic. I was pretty decent. Dont have to roll the rifle very far to get a dot image. I have offset BUIS on my LPVO carbine and there is a HUGE difference in how little you have to roll the rifle with the LaRue ring half. No matches with it, so cant comment on how effective it is under stress.