Defoor Proformance parts ways with Raven Concealment

[Irelander]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/09/defoor-proformance-ends-partnership-with-raven-concealment-system/


“While I greatly enjoyed my time with Raven it’s time for DPS to move forward toward other goals in line with our current and future client base. My staff and I wish RCS the best on their future endeavors and thank them for the opportunity they provided DPS”, said VP Kyle Defoor.

Wondering what precipitated this. Was there a disagreement between the two parties or is this just a friendly notification that Defoor is no longer working on any projects with RCS? Seems kinda strange to me but maybe its nothing.

[Rex G]

Raven who?

Edited to add: Oh, Raven Concealment Systems, the folks who made the Phantom. The Phantom was a step forward, at the time, but that was long ago.

[JTQ]

I don't know Defoor (though I understand who he is), but I do have a RCS Gear Phantom. RCS Gear recently dropped the Phantom line from their offerings. Perhaps he liked the Phantom and the departure from the line up facilitated the break up.

Kyle Defoor on carry gear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eRyfG0byQ4

[MEH]

I don't know Defoor (though I understand who he is), but I do have a RCS Gear Phantom. RCS Gear recently dropped the Phantom line from their offerings. Perhaps he liked the Phantom and the departure from the line up facilitated the break up.


The Eidolon was Defoor's brainchild.

[Irelander]

I have an Eidolon and I think its a great holster erector set.

[Cool Breeze]

It was probably just a financial decision. All of these guys are paid "consultants" read brand ambassadors. They have a celebrity status and get paid for it. Defoor seems like a really squared away dude from a capability perspective but he gets paid to use specific gear when there are a lot of great options.



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[jwperry]

It was probably just a financial decision. All of these guys are paid "consultants" read brand ambassadors. They have a celebrity status and get paid for it. Defoor seems like a really squared away dude from a capability perspective but he gets paid to use specific gear when there are a lot of great options.



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This is what I thought too when I read Defoor's post in IG.

[PNWTO]

It was probably just a financial decision. All of these guys are paid "consultants" read brand ambassadors. They have a celebrity status and get paid for it. Defoor seems like a really squared away dude from a capability perspective but he gets paid to use specific gear when there are a lot of great options.



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While it may have changed, Kyle told us at his class he accepts nothing from his partners aside from gear to T&E. I know he had a pretty neat little IWB mag pouch he had designed with Raven that kept getting pushed back, I wonder if at some point philosophies just parted ways. Raven has been promising a WML Eidolon and a G43 Eidolon for some time, so at the risk of speculation I also wonder if RCS is trying to figure out some command decisions.

Either way, RCS seems to be full of top notch folks and I will buy anything of theirs that fits my needs.

[Cool Breeze]

While it may have changed, Kyle told us at his class he accepts nothing from his partners aside from gear to T&E. I know he had a pretty neat little IWB mag pouch he had designed with Raven that kept getting pushed back, I wonder if at some point philosophies just parted ways. Raven has been promising a WML Eidolon and a G43 Eidolon for some time, so at the risk of speculation I also wonder if RCS is trying to figure out some command decisions.

Either way, RCS seems to be full of top notch folks and I will buy anything of theirs that fits my needs.If that were true, that would be great as I think highly of both Defoor and Raven. But is that true for things he helps design like the Eidolon? I don't know for certain about who or how people get compensated but when these guys talk about partnerships or consultants... It seems like a paid position to me.

Speaking broadly, I have heard them describe their relationships as that and said they wanted to disclose it. I don't know what comes first the chicken or the egg.... Do they love the product/company first and then get paid to endorse... Or do the companies actively search them out and then they proclaim their love. My favorite example of this is when Costa and Haley both left the M&P platform directly after they left Magpul. I don't think they were getting paid by Glock for the switch,t they just has no incentive to stay with the M&P when a better platform existed for their needs.


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[RCSMichael]

Raven who?

Edited to add: Oh, Raven Concealment Systems, the folks who made the Phantom. The Phantom was a step forward, at the time, but that was long ago.

Yeah, I mean, no sense in acknowledging the VanGuard family of products, which pioneered the minimalist holster segment. Nor the Eidolon, which brought AIWB out of the gun-nerd niche and into the mainstream. Just ignore the Balor and Freya, and skip over the Pocket Shield and the TopStop and the Morrigan and the entire Copia family. And of course, the Perun isn't anything worth discussing either.

I'm sorry we aren't pioneering fast enough for you. I can only drop one or two completely new product lines per year.

Seriously, this reminds me of that horrible old Janet Jackson music video for "What Have You Done For Me Lately," and the funny part about it is that I had to take time out of writing a new-product press-release to come respond to this thread. LOL

[Trukinjp13]

Yeah, I mean, no sense in acknowledging the VanGuard family of products, which pioneered the minimalist holster segment. Nor the Eidolon, which brought AIWB out of the gun-nerd niche and into the mainstream. Just ignore the Balor and Freya, and skip over the Pocket Shield and the TopStop and the Morrigan and the entire Copia family. And of course, the Perun isn't anything worth discussing either.

I'm sorry we aren't pioneering fast enough for you. I can only drop one or two completely new product lines per year.

Seriously, this reminds me of that horrible old Janet Jackson music video for "What Have You Done For Me Lately," and the funny part about it is that I had to take time out of writing a new-product press-release to come respond to this thread. LOL

Haters gonna hate bro. One heard you aint doing it right if you do not have any [emoji847]


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[Kyle Reese]

Just ordered a Perun. Looks like a nice, utilitarian holster.

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[RCSMichael]

It was probably just a financial decision. All of these guys are paid "consultants" read brand ambassadors. They have a celebrity status and get paid for it. Defoor seems like a really squared away dude from a capability perspective but he gets paid to use specific gear when there are a lot of great options.



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This is exactly what happened.

Kyle was a paid consultant and brand ambassador for us. His departure was completely financially driven, and there is no animosity on either side of the transaction. We had a great working relationship, and both companies benefited from being associated with one another. As a matter of fact, he and I had been discussing the possibility of his departure for several months now. When we spoke last week before the announcement, he even stated at two different points in the conversation that he was not leaving to go to another holster company. Unfortunately, the fact that he decided to issue a press release created confusion and drama and gossip, which I now have to go around the web dispelling.

One thing I see stated on social media and forums quite often is that Kyle "designed" the Eidolon. This is not the case. Kyle did not design ANY products at RCS. The Eidolon was already a project we had in the hopper at RCS, but it was way down the list, behind the more pressing need we had for a Phantom replacement (which we had already begun). During a conversation Kyle and I had in his kitchen (there's actually a photo on the RCS Facebook page that Jerry Sarkody took while we were having the discussion) he convinced me to take the riskier route of making an injection-molded AIWB holster rather than the Phantom replacement we had been planning. So we back-burnered the Phantom replacement and went full-bore on the Eidolon. This is why the packaging stated it was "...designed with consultation from" rather than "designed BY." The design is 100% from my partners and me, with the help of our CAD team. Kyle was the catalyst to make it the priority, and in hindsight, his advice to go AIWB was absolutely the right call.

Kyle gave us feedback on what some of the attributes his client base would be seeking in an AIWB holster, and did T&E reps on the early 3D prints. He was one of several SMEs who helped with this process, and he felt very passionately about it because of the need he saw within his .gov client base. His logo appeared on the package through a licensing agreement, which has now ended. This will not impact production nor availability of the Eidolon; the only change will be that once the current packaging is exhausted, the new packaging will not have his logo on it.

Other items people have seen him using, like the metal overhooks and the VanGuard Magazine Pouch prototypes, were simply that: Prototypes that he was putting through the paces as part of his scope of work as consultant. These were items which were developed internally. In fact, the VanGuard magazine pouch design has been being worked on as a project since before I ever met Kyle.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion on the topic for everyone.

[Rex G]

Yeah, I mean, no sense in acknowledging the VanGuard family of products, which pioneered the minimalist holster segment. Nor the Eidolon, which brought AIWB out of the gun-nerd niche and into the mainstream. Just ignore the Balor and Freya, and skip over the Pocket Shield and the TopStop and the Morrigan and the entire Copia family. And of course, the Perun isn't anything worth discussing either.

I'm sorry we aren't pioneering fast enough for you. I can only drop one or two completely new product lines per year.

Seriously, this reminds me of that horrible old Janet Jackson music video for "What Have You Done For Me Lately," and the funny part about it is that I had to take time out of writing a new-product press-release to come respond to this thread. LOL

OK, yes, the Vanguard is a valid concept, well-executed. I have two or three of them, though now largely unused, because my Glocks are now largely unused.

I eagerly bought left and right Eidolons, from an RCS dealer. The Eidolon has a sharp edge along the bottom, making it a no-go for me to use for long-term AIWB. The molded belt clips did not inspire confidence. I found the Eidolon useful, with no belt clips, as a pocket holster, for BDU pants’ cargo pockets. Now that I have largely phased-out compact Glocks, however, my Eidolons sit in the inevitable box of disused holsters, which, by the way, also contains my G19 and G26-sized ACR holsters. (The JMCK George is now my choice for AIWB.)

My vertical-draw Phantom holsters (1911, G17, S&W J-Frame) remain useful, as I indicated in my previous reply. My canted Phantom, for the G19, molded to accomodate an X300, has been used much less often, due to insufficient clearance for a substantially belt to readily reach, and pass through, the rear loop. I tried a pancake wing, but that required a too-large flat “footprint” on my thin frame. I may fabricate some kind of offset loop, if I decide to resume carrying a G19.

When I wanted to buy a wire pocket clip for a Surefire light, I could not find them on the RCS site. This was not the first time I had difficulty with the RCS website. I bought the clip, along with a G2, pre-owned, from an individual.

I did just take a look at the RCS site, and it appears that things are now better. I am glad for RCS. It appears, however, that the Perun is not yet made for GP100 revolvers, and that the Eidolon and Morrigan are not yet made for SP101 revolvers. ;)

[Sherman A. House DDS]

This is exactly what happened.

Kyle was a paid consultant and brand ambassador for us. His departure was completely financially driven, and there is no animosity on either side of the transaction. We had a great working relationship, and both companies benefited from being associated with one another. As a matter of fact, he and I had been discussing the possibility of his departure for several months now. When we spoke last week before the announcement, he even stated at two different points in the conversation that he was not leaving to go to another holster company. Unfortunately, the fact that he decided to issue a press release created confusion and drama and gossip, which I now have to go around the web dispelling.

One thing I see stated on social media and forums quite often is that Kyle "designed" the Eidolon. This is not the case. Kyle did not design ANY products at RCS. The Eidolon was already a project we had in the hopper at RCS, but it was way down the list, behind the more pressing need we had for a Phantom replacement (which we had already begun). During a conversation Kyle and I had in his kitchen (there's actually a photo on the RCS Facebook page that Jerry Sarkody took while we were having the discussion) he convinced me to take the riskier route of making an injection-molded AIWB holster rather than the Phantom replacement we had been planning. So we back-burnered the Phantom replacement and went full-bore on the Eidolon. This is why the packaging stated it was "...designed with consultation from" rather than "designed BY." The design is 100% from my partners and me, with the help of our CAD team. Kyle was the catalyst to make it the priority, and in hindsight, his advice to go AIWB was absolutely the right call.

Kyle gave us feedback on what some of the attributes his client base would be seeking in an AIWB holster, and did T&E reps on the early 3D prints. He was one of several SMEs who helped with this process, and he felt very passionately about it because of the need he saw within his .gov client base. His logo appeared on the package through a licensing agreement, which has now ended. This will not impact production nor availability of the Eidolon; the only change will be that once the current packaging is exhausted, the new packaging will not have his logo on it.

Other items people have seen him using, like the metal overhooks and the VanGuard Magazine Pouch prototypes, were simply that: Prototypes that he was putting through the paces as part of his scope of work as consultant. These were items which were developed internally. In fact, the VanGuard magazine pouch design has been being worked on as a project since before I ever met Kyle.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion on the topic for everyone.

Michael,
Thanks for quelling the rumors before the dish runs away with the spoon. My only gripe with you is that despite my four degrees and skills in foreign languages, I can’t ever pronounce your product names correctly!

Keep up the innovation and strong work!

Very Respectfully,

Sherm


civiliandefender.com

[Newportl]

Freya

One of my favorites - but is it being produced anymore? It's out of stock everywhere. I'm in for more of them! (also: thanks for participating here)

[HCM]

Just ordered a Perun. Looks like a nice, utilitarian holster.

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I was concerned when the Perun was described as an OWB Eidolon as I really dislike the "gun bucket-ness" of the Eidolon I tried.

I have, however, been pleasantly surprised by how much I like the Perun.

RCSMichael - the RCS Surefire pocket clips are the best thing y'all make. I'm glad they are available again.

[RJ]

Just ordered a Perun. Looks like a nice, utilitarian holster.

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I bought a used Eidolon off a guy which turned out to be damaged (shell crack). I contacted RCS who allowed me to send it to them for evaluation. In return they sent me, gratis, a new Perun for my G19.5.

I’ve been wearing it daily ever since. Just walked the dog with it on.

It slips on easily but the loops seem to lock down. The twin sweat guards are pretty comfortable. Retention is fine. The holster shell is extremely compact and seems to have just enough material to cover the slide and trigger guard.

I was worried it would print OWB, but my regular shirts cover it fine. I wear mine AOWB and have zero issues standing, sitting for a meal or driving the truck.

And $40 for an ambidextrous Holster is pretty amazing.

[Kyle Reese]

Can't wait to give it a whirl. It has shipped already. I wanted to give RCS some business, and try out a new holster design.

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[Trukinjp13]

Wish they had a p30 version.


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