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View Full Version : Just reiterating I love the F.A.R.T.



mmc45414
02-12-2018, 08:41 AM
While this has been covered in a variety of threads, I just wanted to say I am really glad I went back to wet tumbling.

It is fast and easy and awesome. I do not bother with the pins (they are handy, used them on one batch of nasty stuff I bought cheap) and still have not bothered with a dryer. I have enough brass that I can just lay them out on a towel and give them plenty of time to dry, I am rarely under enough time pressure that I need to load cases that soon. If I occasionally do, I put a tool head in the 650 with nothing but a Lee de-prime die in it and knock the primers out, unprimed cases (in my climate) would be loadable by the next morning.

I use the hive preferred Armor-All and citric acid and they look great and load smooth.

The lack of dust is great.

This is all stuff that is already here, just resurrecting it for folks that might be thinking about it but might be thinking they have to deal with the pins and drying and yada, yada, yada. That stuff is all cool but not initially required.

That is all...

mtnbkr
02-12-2018, 08:52 AM
Same thing here on all points. Except...

Where is the discussion on Armor-All? I missed it. Does it replace the detergent?

Chris

jeep45238
02-12-2018, 09:25 AM
Armorall wash n wax car wash is the detergent- not the armorall dressing ;)


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mmc45414
02-12-2018, 09:45 AM
Where is the discussion on Armor-All? I missed it. Does it replace the detergent?


Armorall wash n wax car wash is the detergent- not the armorall dressing ;)

Hahaha, Yes!

Many folks recommend this stuff:
23746
because the "wax" aspect of it makes the cases easier to size. Available anywhere, including Walmart.

mtnbkr
02-12-2018, 09:57 AM
oh!

I'll have to try that.

Chris

Mirolynmonbro
02-12-2018, 11:41 AM
Ooooohhg...

I want this now 🤤

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jeep45238
02-12-2018, 12:02 PM
Ooooohhg...

I want this now ��

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https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24763-Jeep-s-loading-chronicles

Scroll down until you see brass, and you’ll see the results of wet tumbling brass that was previously dry tumbled for hours on end.

ralph
02-17-2018, 02:14 PM
Hahaha, Yes!

Many folks recommend this stuff:
23746
because the "wax" aspect of it makes the cases easier to size. Available anywhere, including Walmart.

How much do you use with a tumbler load of cases?

jeep45238
02-17-2018, 02:55 PM
Very little. I pour a very thin stream for 1-2 seconds and sprinkle a bit of lemishine in.


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Clusterfrack
02-17-2018, 03:42 PM
Deleted. Double post.

Clusterfrack
02-17-2018, 03:44 PM
I have a FART tumbler inbound. Really looking forward to addressing my brass backlog, and reducing my lead exposure.

I’m considering adding EDTA to chelate the lead. Looks like the solution needs to be at pH 8 to dissolve the EDTA powder but that’s easily done with some washing soda.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/fc0ebf7d581c3367b290748e476c0a80.jpg

jeep45238
02-17-2018, 04:05 PM
Mind providing some more info on the EDTA and cleanup of it?

Clusterfrack
02-17-2018, 04:34 PM
From the papers I’ve read on washing lead contaminated soil, you only need a ~2 millimolar solution of EDTA. Roughly, that works out to 1 gram of EDTA per liter of water. Apparently you need to titrate the water to pH 8 in order for the EDTA to dissolve. I think we can just discard the solution since the lead is bound.

mmc45414
02-17-2018, 05:45 PM
How much do you use with a tumbler load of cases?

Very little. I pour a very thin stream for 1-2 seconds and sprinkle a bit of lemishine in.
Yeah, good measurement method, I was gonna say a shot glass, but that is probably too much. OTOH, the stuff is cheap and the Amazon bulk critic acid is too (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EYFKNL8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) so I tend to use plenty.


I have a FART tumbler inbound. Really looking forward to addressing my brass backlog, and reducing my lead exposure. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/fc0ebf7d581c3367b290748e476c0a80.jpg
If I am looking at that bin correctly, that might only be two loads. I can't believe how much the thing holds.

ralph
02-17-2018, 07:44 PM
Yeah, good measurement method, I was gonna say a shot glass, but that is probably too much. OTOH, the stuff is cheap and the Amazon bulk critic acid is too (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EYFKNL8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) so I tend to use plenty.


If I am looking at that bin correctly, that might only be two loads. I can't believe how much the thing holds.

So, you think maybe about a tablespoon would be enough? My tumbler (without the pins) but with a gallon of water, can hold 17lbs total, so that 's 9 lbs of brass total..I think a taplespoon should work along with some lemishine..

mmc45414
02-17-2018, 08:22 PM
So, you think maybe about a tablespoon would be enough? My tumbler (without the pins) but with a gallon of water, can hold 17lbs total, so that 's 9 lbs of brass total..I think a taplespoon should work along with some lemishine..

Probably a good start point. The stuff costs less than a dime an ounce and is readily available, so I probably use more than I need. I cannot think of a downside from overdoing it.

Also not sure how fast I have used it because I also use it to wash the cars from time to time... :)

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Crazy Dane
02-21-2018, 02:23 PM
From the papers I’ve read on washing lead contaminated soil, you only need a ~2 millimolar solution of EDTA. Roughly, that works out to 1 gram of EDTA per liter of water. Apparently you need to titrate the water to pH 8 in order for the EDTA to dissolve. I think we can just discard the solution since the lead is bound.

You can buy alkali water. Some of the stuff I drink post workout claims to be as high as 8.5 ph. I get mine at the grocery store and I have seen it in the local stab-n-grabs. I know it isn't free but it maybe cheaper than trying to buy "ph up" at the pool store.

Clusterfrack
02-21-2018, 02:31 PM
You can buy alkali water. Some of the stuff I drink post workout claims to be as high as 8.5 ph. I get mine at the grocery store and I have seen it in the local stab-n-grabs. I know it isn't free but it maybe cheaper than trying to buy "ph up" at the pool store.

I've figured out that 1/8 tsp washing soda per gal of hot tap water brings pH above 8. Then I add 1 tsp of EDTA for approx 4 mMol solution. To that, I add the Lemishine and Wash-n-Wax, and pour that gallon into the brass-filled FART. It's working well so far.

MistWolf
02-25-2018, 10:21 AM
What's a FART? What's EDTA?

MistWolf
02-25-2018, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the answers, Tom.

What does a chelating agent do for us?

MistWolf
02-25-2018, 10:56 AM
Thanks again, Tom.

punkey71
02-25-2018, 10:58 AM
I can’t recall who recommended it in a previous thread but a 5 minute “pre wash” with just hot water will do wonders to get the big stuff off the cases before you put the soap/lemishine in for the long wash.

A 5 minute pre wash, followed by a 1 hour Dawn/Lemishine wash with fresh, hot water (no pins) makes my brass look cleaner and brighter than hours of vibratory cleaning.


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jeep45238
02-25-2018, 02:51 PM
I dropped mine off at a friends bourse who doubted me, and swore his vibratory tumbler can’t be beat (small Dillon). He had approximately 4-5000 cases to clean, which he estimated would take 8-10 cycles.

He tumbled a load for 4 hours, then we loaded up the fart and ran it for 30 minutes. The brass came out cleaner than what he had been doing. All of his cases are cleaned after 2 cycles with the fart as well.


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Clusterfrack
02-25-2018, 05:26 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180225/9362a828a023da2c359cdc1223ffce72.jpg

ralph
03-29-2018, 02:23 PM
I dropped mine off at a friends bourse who doubted me, and swore his vibratory tumbler can’t be beat (small Dillon). He had approximately 4-5000 cases to clean, which he estimated would take 8-10 cycles.

He tumbled a load for 4 hours, then we loaded up the fart and ran it for 30 minutes. The brass came out cleaner than what he had been doing. All of his cases are cleaned after 2 cycles with the fart as well.


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After going to wet tumbling, I'll never go back to a vibratory tumbler.. it's faster, cleaner, and gives better results.. Besides after going through 2 large Dillon tumblers (motors burnt out in both) I'm convinced that the vibratory tumblers are designed to fail after a bit of useage, forcing you to buy another. I mean, look at how they all work, the motor is bolted to the bottom of the bowl, at the other end of the motor is a weight bolted to the motor's shaft which causes the vibration when it's running, it's also putting alot of stress on the shafts bearings. In the case if the Dillon tumblers, I took the motor from mine and went to a local motor repair shop to see if it could be rebuilt, nope, it was shot, they tried to order a new one as it was made by Emerson Electric. Emerson told them that, that motor was proprietary, made and sold to one customer..Dillion.. Dillon wanted $110 plus shipping to "rebuild" one of mine, I figured if I went that route, I'd be better off buying a new one, so that's when I decided to give wet tumbling a try.. Best move I ever made.. the wore out dillion tumblers are going out in the trash..

mmc45414
07-22-2018, 08:38 AM
I use the hive preferred Armor-All and citric acid and they look great and load smooth.

Don't know how or where (probably FB...), but I tripped over some link that informed me that an intended use of Lemi Shine/citric acid is eliminating chalky white residue in the dishwasher, typically associated with hard water. Tried it and it works great, pleasing the cohabitant a great deal, who had been grumbling about us needing a new dishwasher. Since this is a technical sub forum, I am posting cause I figure many other members probably have well water like we do.

In related news, a few weeks ago she wanted to wash her car and asked me "What soap have you been using to wash the cars?"

ranger
07-22-2018, 09:39 AM
Long time reloader here. Long time tumbler. If I go to the FART, tell m about "drying" the brass. Thanks

LittleLebowski
07-22-2018, 09:42 AM
I can’t recall who recommended it in a previous thread but a 5 minute “pre wash” with just hot water will do wonders to get the big stuff off the cases before you put the soap/lemishine in for the long wash.

A 5 minute pre wash, followed by a 1 hour Dawn/Lemishine wash with fresh, hot water (no pins) makes my brass look cleaner and brighter than hours of vibratory cleaning.


I do a heavy first wash and then an Armorall only hour long rinse, pretty much the same results.

GuanoLoco
07-22-2018, 09:49 AM
Don't know how or where (probably FB...), but I tripped over some link that informed me that an intended use of Lemi Shine/citric acid is eliminating chalky white residue in the dishwasher, typically associated with hard water. Tried it and it works great, pleasing the cohabitant a great deal, who had been grumbling about us needing a new dishwasher. Since this is a technical sub forum, I am posting cause I figure many other members probably have well water like we do.

In related news, a few weeks ago she wanted to wash her car and asked me "What soap have you been using to wash the cars?"

Just don’t overdo it with the citric acid. If you were seeing pink-ish looking breast, back off.

LittleLebowski
07-22-2018, 09:55 AM
Long time reloader here. Long time tumbler. If I go to the FART, tell m about "drying" the brass. Thanks

Food dehydrator. By far the smartest and easiest solution.

https://www.amazon.com/Presto-06300-Dehydro-Electric-Dehydrator/dp/B008H2OELY/ref=sr_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1532271241&sr=1-5&keywords=food+dehydrator

mmc45414
07-22-2018, 10:16 AM
Long time reloader here. Long time tumbler. If I go to the FART, tell m about "drying" the brass. Thanks

Food dehydrator. By far the smartest and easiest solution.
While I am considering a dryer at some point, I have just been laying them out flat on a towel for several days or maybe a week. Not saying it is best or anything, just an option. The dryers are cheap enough to not bother not doing it, I just have enough brass that there is always enough lead time to just let them dry. Your climate, wherever you may be, might vary this though.

chances R
07-22-2018, 06:33 PM
in the summer i just put mine on a towel and sun bake it. Have a wire fry basket i pile brass in and put it in the over for an hour at 175. Use to put the basket on a tennis shoe rack and put in clothes dryer.

Jim Watson
07-23-2018, 09:10 AM
I have an elderly Thumler rotary that polished a lot of rocks for a friend. It is great for wet tumbling of black powder brass. But the cycle of load with brass, water, chemicals, and pin or ceramic media, let tumble, drain, rinse, separate media, and dry is more work than I care to do on bulk pistol brass.

I am content with a dry vibrator for that. I don't need them as shiny as new, I just want them clean so they run through the Dillon smoothly.

My vibratory has a Midway label, but if you look at it in the right light, you can see the Thumler trademark embossed in the bowl. I have not succeeded in wearing it out while my friends have seen Dillon, Lyman, and RCBS come and go. If it finally does give up the ghost, I will feel I have had my use out of it and buy a new Thumler.

mmc45414
07-23-2018, 11:06 AM
But the cycle of load with... pin or ceramic media... separate media, and dry is more work than I care to do on bulk pistol brass.
IMO the pins make the whole process unnecessarily clunky, I have only used mine once. I just pour my cases in, throw in a little soap and citric, run it for a short while, then pour out the water and lay the cases on a towel. I travel a lot for work, so it is simple (and quick) for me to do this prior to a trip, and the cases are ready to load when I get back.

I want to reiterate that I am not the F.A.R.T. salesman, just really happy with what has been working for me.

The pins are handy to have, the one time I used them was when I bought some bargain brass that was really cruddy. They took some stuff that I considered throwing away right after I bought it to a state where they looked like they had just been struck from the die that manufactured them. Even the bottom of the lettering of the head stamp text was shiny. But a colossal PITA, those pins are.. :)

LittleLebowski
07-23-2018, 04:38 PM
Just don’t overdo it with the citric acid. If you were seeing pink-ish looking breast, back off.


https://youtu.be/4sJRkj9DP9Y

GuanoLoco
07-23-2018, 05:53 PM
https://youtu.be/4sJRkj9DP9Y

LOL - Between voice recognition, my piss-poor typing and the 1 hour or so limit on editing posts, I end up posting all kids of embarrassing stuff.

Voice recognition always puts in "breast" for "brass", I've almost given up trying to correct it.

PS> If using more citric acid has you seeing more pinkish looking breasts, you should definitely use even more, not less.

AJLooch
07-24-2018, 12:57 PM
I cannot fathom how anyone could think wet tumbling is easier or faster than dry tumbling with corn cob? No Depriming, no dust a hour and a half and its ready to load. How does wet tumbling make this easier?

LittleLebowski
07-24-2018, 01:13 PM
I cannot fathom how anyone could think wet tumbling is easier or faster than dry tumbling with corn cob? No Depriming, no dust a hour and a half and its ready to load. How does wet tumbling make this easier?

Because you get vastly superior results and with a food dehydrator, no worries about depriming. I've tried both.

Matt O
07-24-2018, 02:48 PM
I cannot fathom how anyone could think wet tumbling is easier or faster than dry tumbling with corn cob? No Depriming, no dust a hour and a half and its ready to load. How does wet tumbling make this easier?

When I dry tumbled, I tried a bunch of different types of media, including corn cob, and never was 100% dust free. Wet tumbling takes me about an hour, the brass is cleaner than dry tumbling and lead primer residue is contained within the water. Yes, waiting for the brass to dry in the dehydrator takes longer in total than dry tumbling, but it's not as if you're standing there tending the dehydrator. So basically the only "inconvenience" for cleaner brass and the reduced possibility of lead poisoning/contamination is that you can't immediately start reloading your cleaned brass after it comes out of the tumbler. In addition, unless they have come out with significantly larger vibratory dry tumblers in recent years, you can clean a much larger volume of cases at once with the FART than you can with dry tumbling.

GuanoLoco
07-24-2018, 05:55 PM
4-5 gallons of 9mm brass cleaned in an hour in a cement mixer (not Harbor Fright - BTDT) and dried in 90 mins in a pair of 1000W dehydrators makes an odious chore not so bad. Especially when you can run multiple batches in a day.

mmc45414
07-25-2018, 06:12 AM
FIFY :)

4-5 gallons of 9mm brass cleaned in an hour, dried in 90 mins, and all loaded three hours later...

GuanoLoco
07-25-2018, 09:55 AM
FIFY :)

I’m not that fast. Alhough in a few hours on each of the last 2 nights I did load about 3400 9mm’s including case gauging every round.

I also spent over 1/2 of the first evening tearing down a 1050 arm joint then cleaning and re-packing the bearing. Turns out my issue was something else. Sigh. :(

My normal load speed these days is 2100 rounds an hour - I can’t quite keep up at that speed with feeding the machine components, fixing issues, spot-QC’ing rounds (OAL, Crimp, Primer Deating Depth) and case gauging every round produced in a Hundo Case Gauge. Then again I’m not that far behind.

Effective speed is less that 2100 RPH - as I am busier than a one-armed paper hanger and need to maintain that level of intensity for hours at a time. Plus watch NetFlix.

Tokarev
09-15-2018, 10:53 AM
I still vibratory tumble but only for rifle brass. I'll give them a bit of a grind before I lube and size. After that they go into the wash for pins and/or soap and Lemi Shine.

I've done it the other way around by washing and lubing first then tumbling just for a few minutes to get the case lube off. But this usually results in dirty primer pockets and bits of media stuck in the flash holes.

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mmc45414
08-14-2019, 06:26 AM
It is smaller and cheaper (and the price of the larger one went up):
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Leakproof-Polishing-Reloading/dp/B07KT8NQS8/ref=pd_cp_200_2?pd_rd_w=Kj7Xm&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6&pd_rd_r=8e32c6c4-9f2a-4292-a64f-e6044c7ce820&pd_rd_wg=h04G0&pd_rd_i=B07KT8NQS8&psc=1&refRID=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6
Looks like it also does not have the timer, not sure if that would or would be a big deal.

It also looks like it comes with screens that would be better for using the pins, and they are available as an accessory:
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Innovative-Heavy-Duty-Worry-Free/dp/B07KT7YHFD/ref=pd_cp_200_1?pd_rd_w=Kj7Xm&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6&pd_rd_r=8e32c6c4-9f2a-4292-a64f-e6044c7ce820&pd_rd_wg=h04G0&pd_rd_i=B07KT7YHFD&psc=1&refRID=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6

I still would not plan to use the pins, but if I ever need to again I will buy a set of the screens.

The reason I was looking is that I probably will end up with the dryer. Some of my 300BO cases that I ASSumed would be dry in about a day and a half (without primers) were not.

4given
08-23-2019, 11:28 AM
I'm using the stainless steel pins, Dawn dish soap and lema-shine (citric acid) I think I'll tray the Armor All suds. Thanks for the tip!

4given
08-23-2019, 11:33 AM
It is smaller and cheaper (and the price of the larger one went up):
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Leakproof-Polishing-Reloading/dp/B07KT8NQS8/ref=pd_cp_200_2?pd_rd_w=Kj7Xm&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6&pd_rd_r=8e32c6c4-9f2a-4292-a64f-e6044c7ce820&pd_rd_wg=h04G0&pd_rd_i=B07KT8NQS8&psc=1&refRID=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6
Looks like it also does not have the timer, not sure if that would or would be a big deal.

It also looks like it comes with screens that would be better for using the pins, and they are available as an accessory:
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Innovative-Heavy-Duty-Worry-Free/dp/B07KT7YHFD/ref=pd_cp_200_1?pd_rd_w=Kj7Xm&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6&pd_rd_r=8e32c6c4-9f2a-4292-a64f-e6044c7ce820&pd_rd_wg=h04G0&pd_rd_i=B07KT7YHFD&psc=1&refRID=FP5CPX2396F1NMJZGMF6

I still would not plan to use the pins, but if I ever need to again I will buy a set of the screens.

The reason I was looking is that I probably will end up with the dryer. Some of my 300BO cases that I ASSumed would be dry in about a day and a half (without primers) were not.


I use a plastic collander and a paint strainer bag to seperate pins from brass. Place the collander inside the bag, pour brass and pins into collander rinse and shake. Pins end up in bag and brass remains in collander. Easy peasy.

mmc45414
06-27-2020, 05:31 PM
One Hour, One (partial) Load, No Pins.
56445

Super77
07-04-2020, 04:49 PM
What did you put in the cleaning solution?

mmc45414
07-05-2020, 05:24 AM
What did you put in the cleaning solution?
Just a very little bit of citric acid (Lemi Shine at the grocery) and the Armorall Car Was soap. If you bounce to the beginning of this thread there was some chat about it.

Whirlwind06
07-05-2020, 09:01 AM
I just bought a lyman brass dryer to help getting my brass dry.

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mmc45414
03-30-2022, 11:46 AM
I just bought a lyman brass dryer to help getting my brass dry.

I did finally break down and get the Frankford dryer, just did my first batch in it this morning. Have been doing a lot of .223 prep and sizing with the new RL1100 and it really takes a long time for bottleneck cases to dry when the primers are still in them. Another factor here is I am not traveling for work like I used to, it was easier to do a load of wash before a business trip and by the time I got back they were dry.

It seems like an OK tool, but is takes a little fidgeting to stack the trays. not sure if I will bother using it for 9mm, they dry pretty quickly laying on their sides on a towel.