PDA

View Full Version : High(er) Velocity 380 Bullets in a 9mm. Do They Work?



Tokarev
02-11-2018, 09:50 AM
Some months ago I loaded a few rounds of 9mm Luger using a 90gr Hornady XTP with the idea that a light bullet would work well as a short barrel load. The idea seems to have some merit and there are factory loads available from Wilson Combat, Double Tap and others that are loaded with the same idea in mind.

Well, for whatever reason, I never got too far with the 9mm XTP experiment. Not that it didn't show promise but I didn't have a decent quantity of these bullets to load and test in gel, test for accuracy at various distances, etc. And I didn't feel like buying a box or two of these bullets just to satisfy some curiosity.

What I did recently buy was a bag of 250 pulled Barnes 80gr bullets from American Reloading. I bought some rifle bullets and figured I'd order up a bag of the Barnes to play with since they were cheap.

Hodgdon shows data for this bullet on their Reloading Data Center with some of the highest velocity and lowest pressure coming from 572 powder. I loaded five of these bullets to the listed max using Federal cases and primers. These were seated to the listed overall length.

Yesterday I took these out for a trial run. I fired all five bullets into a 10% organic gel block from a Ruger 9mm Officer's Model. The gel was shot from a distance of ten feet. Two rounds were fired into bare gel and three rounds were fired through FBI heavy clothing.

This load, from the 3.6" barrel, had an average muzzle velocity of 1,274.33 feet per second. The muzzle energy for this load is 288 foot pounds and the standard deviation was 24.58. Recoil, as expected, was very mild and the load was completely comfortable to shoot. The downside is that the load is so mild that the gun will not run reliably. Several rounds stovepiped and the slide did not lock open on the last shot.

In gel, the clothing barrier appears to have had little effect on the bullet's performance. All five bullets penetrated between nine and 9.5" and opened perfectly. The only noticeable difference is that the bullets fired into bare gel seem to have petals that folded back toward the shank of the bullet a bit more than those fired through clothing.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/8efdcce5d0079a1f33a7359ffda0bb9a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/df3105dfa5a2e740a57fca9610b740f0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/bb18892788dfa414bd0f08fa4f3ec021.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/c075c0cc9b7e5572a4dafb9c608f150f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/57ebca600deda5e444ffdf84a7884b61.jpg

Retained weight was 80 grains, plus or minus a tenth, as was expected. Barnes bullets seem to be tougher than pretty much anything and respond well to high velocity.

I'll have to bump the load up a bit and see if I can get reliable cycling without resorting to changing a recoil spring. It will be interesting to see what happens when this bullet is pushed to even higher velocity. Will it open that much faster and penetrate less or will the additional speed help the bullet penetrate closer to the FBI minimum of twelve inches? And will it be possible to push the bullet hard enough to meet the minimum spec? My gut says no.

Tokarev
03-07-2018, 06:49 PM
Sorry I haven't updated.

I've slowly been working the load up 2/10ths at a time and think I've settled on where I'm going to stop. The load is more than half a grain over the max listed on the Hodgdon website but now the gun seems to cycle, feed and lock open fine. Velocity is in the mid 1300 range so I'm happy there too.

I have some other stuff to do this weekend but hopefully I can find the time to load and shoot a few of these for accuracy, etc. If the load appears to be satisfactory I'll load up a few more for another gel test.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

5pins
03-07-2018, 07:59 PM
I have some 90gr Sierra's on the way. I was thinking of pushing them to 9mm major. I'm betting I can get them from 1700 to 1800fps. It should totally explode in gel. What I'm really trying to do is make a flat shooting load that works the comp well with little dot movement. It should make a great steel load.

Tokarev
03-07-2018, 08:25 PM
What I'm really trying to do is make a flat shooting load that works the comp well with little dot movement. It should make a great steel load.

Have you checked Brian Enos for 90gr data? If you want something "blasty" to work your comp just for steel you might find what you want without going all the way to major power factor.

For me, the interest in light-for-caliber is mostly academic. Is it possible to load a light 380 bullet fast enough to reach 12" in gel? Will such a load produce less felt recoil than something like a 124gr Speer Gold Dot?

5pins
03-07-2018, 09:02 PM
Have you checked Brian Enos for 90gr data? If you want something "blasty" to work your comp just for steel you might find what you want without going all the way to major power factor.

For me, the interest in light-for-caliber is mostly academic. Is it possible to load a light 380 bullet fast enough to reach 12" in gel? Will such a load produce less felt recoil than something like a 124gr Speer Gold Dot?

Yes I went there and no I don't need to go that fast. 1300fps should do well from what I'm reading. I just want to see how fast I can get them for fun.

Tokarev
03-07-2018, 09:05 PM
I just want to see how fast I can get them for fun.

I certainly understand that. Pretty much the same thing I'm going.

Tokarev
03-08-2018, 09:32 PM
I have some 90gr Sierra's on the way.


I assume the 90gr Gold Dot 380 bullet has the concave base like the 115s and 124s. If so you might gain a smidge more powder capacity with the Speer bullet.

Tokarev
03-11-2018, 07:44 PM
Alright so today I tried my home brew "380 Magnum" loads against gel covered with heavy clothing.

The test firearms were my Ruger 9mm Officer's Model with a 3.6" barrel and my SIG P320 X5 with a 5.0" barrel.

The load produces fairly soft recoil in both pistols. I know that is pretty subjective but the load doesn't kick as much as you'd expect from a defense load. I suppose that's not surprising given the bullet weight.

The SIG is putting out muzzle velocities in the 1400's while the Ruger is running 100 fps lower.

I fired two rounds from each pistol into the gel from ten feet. Chronograph data was taken later. Also, one of the bullets fired from the 320 hit the block at a slightly upward angle (my fault) and exited the block after about 9 inches.

Penetration of the recovered SIG bullet was slightly on the shallow side, coming in at about 11.5 inches. Expansion was aggressive with the petals folding back against the shank of the bullet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/a3c53442f570773ba27391bcc6aa281f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/2968b870c3755f4d4a50deaca733d53e.jpg

Both bullets fired from the Officer were recovered at about 10 inches into the block. Expansion was pretty good.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/0fda58b5ef200a38383fbff92b6910a1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/417e4844058580e66afd602a54b6f1be.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/6b80b86927f0576fea7a071cd0c9a33f.jpg

All three recovered bullets side by side. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180312/647ef144aceab7aa60c8e4e84662e1fe.jpg

Tokarev
03-11-2018, 07:52 PM
So I'm not sure what all this proves. I guess my takeaway is the Barnes TAC XP bullets are pretty darned amazing. Here's a bullet that's being pushed probably a good 400 fps faster than it is designed for and it is staying together and coming out of the gel with 100% weight retention.

I'm still curious about what it'll take to get the bullet going fast enough to penetrate to a 12in minimum. Maybe next time I'll try the Ruger PCC. See what a 16in barrel does to velocity.

I should also test the load out a little in my SIG 938. The load may have some value in the pocket gun.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Shawn Dodson
03-16-2018, 01:14 PM
Try 90gr XTP. At approx 1000 fps from a .380 Beretta 85 it fragments and penetrates just shy of 12".

Tokarev
03-16-2018, 09:05 PM
Try 90gr XTP. At approx 1000 fps from a .380 Beretta 85 it fragments and penetrates just shy of 12".I've shot the Barnes 95gr TAC XP 9mm loaded by Wilson Combat into gel. Running about 1,200 fps that bullet does 9.5" after passing through clothing. Not a 380 bullet in length but it is in mass.



Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Spartan1980
03-16-2018, 10:23 PM
So I'm not sure what all this proves. I guess my takeaway is the Barnes TAC XP bullets are pretty darned amazing. Here's a bullet that's being pushed probably a good 400 fps faster than it is designed for and it is staying together and coming out of the gel with 100% weight retention.

I'm still curious about what it'll take to get the bullet going fast enough to penetrate to a 12in minimum. Maybe next time I'll try the Ruger PCC. See what a 16in barrel does to velocity.

I should also test the load out a little in my SIG 938. The load may have some value in the pocket gun.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

With my homebuilt 16" PCC (AR 9mm) I was hoping to run one load which is my normal 9mm minor load. I found that this load runs 150 FPS faster than in my 5" barreled pistol. This is with e3 powder which is very fast burning. A more conventional powder I would think would be an even bigger increase. The serious USPSA gamers are reducing their loads and still not getting down too far in their PCC guns.

5pins
03-19-2018, 04:51 PM
I loaded up some Sierra 90 HP's in 9mm with a heavy dose of CFE pistol. These loads are in major 9 territory and I got an average velocity of 1781fps. I fired two bullets into clear gel and both came in just under 9 inches. The recovered weights were 41gr and 39gr. Lead and jackets started tearing off at about the two inch mark. No sign of pressure so I could probably bump up the charge but the over all length was so short it didn't like to feed in the Glock 17 I was using. That was fun but now I think I will slow it down and see if I can turn it into a mild recoiling steel load.

https://i.imgur.com/ti6caL5l.jpg?1

Tokarev
03-19-2018, 07:42 PM
I loaded up some Sierra 90 HP's in 9mm with a heavy dose of CFE pistol. These loads are in major 9 territory and I got an average velocity of 1781fps. I fired two bullets into clear gel and both came in just under 9 inches. The recovered weights were 41gr and 39gr. Lead and jackets started tearing off at about the two inch mark. No sign of pressure so I could probably bump up the charge but the over all length was so short it didn't like to feed in the Glock 17 I was using. That was fun but now I think I will slow it down and see if I can turn it into a mild recoiling steel load.

https://i.imgur.com/ti6caL5l.jpg?1Far out. Maybe back the velocity down a couple hundred feet and see if you can get a couple more inches of penetration out of it?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Im51504ID
03-20-2018, 01:17 AM
So I'm not sure what all this proves. I guess my takeaway is the Barnes TAC XP bullets are pretty darned amazing. Here's a bullet that's being pushed probably a good 400 fps faster than it is designed for and it is staying together and coming out of the gel with 100% weight retention.

I'm still curious about what it'll take to get the bullet going fast enough to penetrate to a 12in minimum. Maybe next time I'll try the Ruger PCC. See what a 16in barrel does to velocity.


Very interested in what you find!

I've always wondered what a well constructed lighter weight bullet would do in a 9mm carbine.