Are we (as a culture) over-reliant on old age?

[RevolverRob]

First for clarity - I'm not suggesting that with age doesn't come wisdom or that "old" people are some how not valuable. Quite the contrary -

As I've mentioned before, my father was diagnosed with a rare bone cancer in the middle of last year. He turned 73 last month and will be lucky to live to his 75th birthday. One of the realities of his cancer is that it is a genetic mutation. If I possess that mutation then I have a 2-in-3 chance of getting the same cancer and I have a 50-50 chance of having the mutation (it's a double recessive)*. I turned 32 a few months ago and I've begun to realize that at some point in the next 3-5 years, I could, very seriously, be middle aged. My father reached middle age before I was born (for those doing the math).

All of this has me considering the existentialism of life. And the nature of how we've structured our professional and personal lives. I'm 32-years old, I don't even have my (semi)permanent job yet in my life. I'm nearly two decades from my maximum earning potential and years away from financial and job security. I got a bit of a late start in life, not going to college until I was 20, but even still - what I've come to realize is - I walked into my potential career path and have structure my life over the past decade, under the presumption that I was going to live until I was 85-90 years old. That I wouldn't be middle aged for effectively another dozen years - when in reality, I might not live past 70.

And then I began to look at those around me, the number of people who have similar career/life structures and cycles. I'm all for waiting until you're a bit more mature to have a family/kids/etc, but are we, as a culture, becoming over-reliant on an increased life expectancy? How many of you have put off things or perhaps any other planned to do certain things when you're older, under the assumption that you'll be older? Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a YOLO culture, but I'm beginning to question the legitimacy of planning certain things to occur after your say 50s. Given the degree of heart disease, obesity, and other deadly ailments, it seems like maybe we should bear this in mind.

Myself? I've begun to restructure certain plans and change certain priorities with this knowledge in mind.

*I have not yet been checked for the mutation and have chosen to remain ignorant until after I've completed my PhD dissertation. I don't really need a (good) excuse to quit, right now.

[ASH556]

First, my condolences on your Father's report from the doctors. I hope you are able to make the most of the time you have remaining with him.

I think Western (especially US) culture has made a habit, especially in the 2 most recent generations of delaying adulthood. I've dwelt more on the effects than the causality, but suffice to say I don't like it. I think by and large in tends to breed a cycle of laziness and dependence upon others and absolutely slaughters self-reliance. I'm not just talking about living in your parents' basement until you're 40, on their insurance, etc. Rather, the entire notion that we are dependent upon this false validation from others telling us we are capable of something; having never tried it ourselves. College and the entire educational/career system has become predicated upon: "Go to school, make good grades, advance to next level, repeat." And somehow, that's supposed to prepare a person for success. I've witnessed numerous cases (siblings-in-law as well as friends, extended family, etc) of kids who graduate college having made good grades and achieved "Magna Cum Whatever" status, only for them to utterly fail at finding a job, let alone other basic adult human tasks such as scheduling doctor appointments, buying a car, even renewing their drivers license or filing a change of address form with the Post Office. Not only are these people incapable of performing these basic life tasks (that do not require a college degree), but they tend to have toddler-esque psychological meltdowns while attempting to do so.

Society/Academia/Socialist Education System spun the tale and parents bought it hook, line, and sinker; conservative and liberal alike.

So what is the answer? Don't wait for someone to tell you you're qualified. Don't focus so much on earning meaningless pieces of paper. Figure out what you want to do with your life that will provide you with the financial means to survive and thrive at whatever level you want. Then, do that thing. How do you start? Start. Pick something, anything, and go get your hands dirty doing it for 6-12 months. At that time, determine if you like it enough to keep doing it. Wash, rinse, repeat. At the very worst, you've have gained a bunch of actual experience from which to base future opinions and/or help you earn position advancement.

Also, don't get caught up in stuff. You actually need very little to survive. Who says you have to live in XXXX house and drive XXXXX car.




Ok, that's enough of that rant. Truly, though, I'd MUCH rather see (and will advise) my children to become electricians, welders, carpenters, mechanics, etc than pay (or have them take on life-crippling student loans) to party for 4 years (or more) to get a piece of paper that tells them they mean something only to realize the "real world" DGAF about it. **Certain, very few, fields are exempted from this statement such as, Engineers, Medical Personnel, and others for whom higher level education actually teaches them things they'll need to do their job every day.

-signed, a 34 year old man, who first worked for pay at the age of 6 (cutting grass after my dad left the year before), earned his first W2 on a lumberyard at the age of 15, and who worked 40+ hours a week to earn next semester's tuition while attending the Georgia Institute of Technology. No I didn't graduate Magna Cum anything. Yes I failed a class and got a couple "D's" which earned me a semester of involuntary off-time (read: time to work 80 hrs/week and make more money so that when I was allowed to go back the following semester, I had the money for tuition).

Live life the fullest at every step of the way. Plan ahead, but don't bank on it either.

P.S. for me, faith is also a large element of the equation. Contrary to popular opinion, though, trusting God for help/guidance does not mean sitting back and waiting for Him to do it for you. Noah built the ark with his own two hands, Moses went before Pharaoh and spoke up repeatedly, and Jesus carried the very cross they crucified him on.

[JRB]

Very few people have any kind of 'plan' to die when they end up dying. They die in the middle of their plans, in one form or another.

Sometimes they die because of complications following heart surgery in their late 80's, like my grandmother.

Sometimes they die because an RPG hit their Humvee when they were 19.

Sometimes they die because an old woman in a Cadillac didn't see his bright red motorcycle when he was 21.


Have fun today. Have plans for tomorrow. Don't sacrifice one for the other.

[BehindBlueI's]

I understand society is more complicated now, and that some careers take more time to learn. The simpler the society, the younger people are "adults" because there just isn't as much to learn and you can start to make a living much earlier. We'd shit the bed about 13 year olds getting married and starting households now, the bar mitzvah and quinceañera are just parties and tradition, nobody in western society really believes they are adults. Able to sign contracts, own homes, enter the workforce, have their own kids, etc. So, I try not to be too judgey as the line moves further back and people are children longer. But it's not for me.

So, personally, no I couldn't wait to be an adult. I joined the Army the week after I graduated high school and never looked back. I tried to get a GED and a waiver so I wouldn't have to wait to finish high school. I worked construction under the table when I turned 15, bought my own car before I had a license, and was pretty independent from then on. At 32 I'd been married, divorced, and remarried. I had a son with my second (and current) wife, had traveled fairly extensively, owned two houses and one piece of undeveloped land, and was pretty firmly looking to set my finances for eventual retirement.

Now I'm looking to retire in 10-12 years and who knows exactly what I'll do...but I'll be doing something and traveling and experiencing. Maybe I'll finally get around to learning to weld and build my own off-roader. :)

[Trukinjp13]

I am 33. I got out of high school. Went to trade school. By 21 I had a job with retirement/insurance and had a life insurance policy. My father taught me the value of getting retirement squared away asap. It also helped working for my Uncle hanging drywall through High School. He had never setup a retirement and is still trying to hang board.

Most of my friends have no real set future. Some make twice as much money as I do but have nothing in a retirement plan. I also setup a annuity a few years ago. I really wish I had done it awhile ago.

I am just happy to be breathing. I should have died twice by the time I was 22. So while I have setup my future as good as I could. I really never planned to live to 80.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PNWTO]

And then I began to look at those around me, the number of people who have similar career/life structures and cycles. I'm all for waiting until you're a bit more mature to have a family/kids/etc, but are we, as a culture, becoming over-reliant on an increased life expectancy? How many of you have put off things or perhaps any other planned to do certain things when you're older, under the assumption that you'll be older? Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a YOLO culture, but I'm beginning to question the legitimacy of planning certain things to occur after your say 50s. Given the degree of heart disease, obesity, and other deadly ailments, it seems like maybe we should bear this in mind.



I am only a few calendar flips away from the Three Oh myself and find myself not necessarily planning on a longer life, but planning to resist the rush of it all. I went from working as a mid-level monkey chieftain in a farcical corporate hellhole and living in the 'burbs surrounded by nutty evangelical Stepford families to moving back to the vacant rural home where I was raised by my grandparents and am currently planning with my wife to grow, raise, or hunt as much of our food as possible while totally changing my professional path. She is a very successful lawyer and conceded she was indeed looking for the same deceleration. Obviously, we have put off starting a family for a year or two until things stabilize but our other actions I feel are in line with yours.


Our goals are to chase the experiences we want, now. Travel, camp, and adventure and not let other social expectations slow us down. She has a family history of Alzheimers and my family has me in full E&E for heart issues. It is simply not worth it to wait. Kudos to JRB, I have lost a lot of Marine brothers and to wait would not be in their honor.


The wife still won't let me go back to a flip phone, sadly.

[blues]

Sometimes you live longer than you expected, in spite of yourself. It pays to find the balance of preparing for the future while enjoying today. It can be done...the more easily if you start sooner rather than later, a little at a time.

Nobody knows what the future holds. Do your best to own it.

[BehindBlueI's]

... to grow, raise, or hunt all of our food while totally changing my professional path.

Best of luck. Subsistence farming sucks ass.

[PNWTO]

Best of luck. Subsistence farming sucks ass.

Already feeling that. I should have said "as much of our food as possible" to lessen what probably read like douchey hyperbole.

[OlongJohnson]

My best friend became ill at age 30. Eight years later, I helped carry his casket.

In the words of Gene Simmons, every day that you're above ground, you win.

Tempus fugit.

[GJM]

My strategy is to live life like it can end later today, but make choices to hopefully allow you to live well for a lot longer.

[BehindBlueI's]

Already feeling that. I should have said "as much of our food as possible" to lessen what probably read like douchey hyperbole.

I grew up like that. We called it being poor. Rural poverty is better than urban poverty in the regard you do have access to growing and storing your own food...but it seriously sucks ass.

We had goats, chickens, and rabbits. Occasionally hogs. Prior to losing the farm to bankruptcy, we also had cows. My grandmother made her own butter, some of my earliest memories are of the milk separating in a big glass jar and turning the crank to make butter.

We had a big ass garden and a stand of corn. Picking potato bugs off the plants by hand to save money on insecticide and dropping them in a coffee can filled with water to kill them. Hanging pie pans on ribbons to keep deer out of the apple trees and out of the green beans. Picking beans, so much fucking picking of beans. Then breaking beans. Then canning beans. Also stringing beans to dry for seed for next year. I actually never minded digging potatoes and storing them in the pump house. Or shoveling rabbit shit to mix in to the garden soil.

Picking wild berries for jelly. Sun drying apples for apple butter and for storage. Wondering why in the hell none of the pear trees would produce. Shooting crows out of the corn. Shooting weasels out of the chickens. Collecting eggs and replacing them with golf balls so the hens wouldn't move their nests. Watching the turkeys because if you turned your back one of them would flog you.

Butchering goats, butchering rabbits, the smell of scalding a freshly killed chicken to pluck the feathers off...

I've got zero desire to return to that life. Maybe have a few chickens or something to piddle with, but not ever to that level again. A few years ago it struck me "you don't have to put a garden out". I always had because I always had. I didn't, and I didn't starve. Actually, kind of freeing.

[LSP552]

My strategy is to live life like it can end later today, but make choices to hopefully allow you to live well for a lot longer.

Very well said George.

[Joe in PNG]

The question is when does a modern kid get a chance to be an adult before he actually becomes an adult?
The teenage years should be a gradual hand-off of responsibility from the parents to the offspring. Young eagles learning to fly, hunt, and other life skills while still in the nest comes to mind.

Instead, the kids are bubble wrapped, helicopter monitored, coddled, protected, and kept away from adulthood- like an eagle caged for it's own safety. One should not be surprised that this bird won't fly if the door is opened, and would rather stay.

[willie]

From start to finish requires a lot of effort. It's the trip that's life--not reaching sign posts. We achieve based on ability, opportunity, inclination, maturity, ambition, and perspective. These variables can make up much of a theoretical matrix that determines success. But, the matrix must have health variables like physical and mental health. Mental health concerns include personality aberrations. And, then ideally, one's family structure and upbringing would emphasize and teach that he become an ethical person with a sense of social responsibility. Also, a measure of luck is good. Too, we can't overlook a good mate's importance.

We--Rob, you, or I--aren't capable of mapping out the big trip in such a way that we can say that we'll fuck up and be miserable if we haven't reached this point by one age or have this job by that age and have so much success by another age. The best we can do is plan and try and be confident and have at least some faith in the system. Don't fret. Keep on humping.

Overthinking may be fretting. I like to hunt but have great difficulty raising a long gun to my shoulder. I love shooting handguns but must stand on a bank and shoot down. I can't bring the weapon to eye level for more than a few seconds. I'm typing this with my left hand for a reason. Yet I view myself as blessed. I don't fret. Hey. I can shoot from the hip like a motherfucker, but that's another story. Yes sir. I continue to be blessed. The trip is good, and mine ain't over.

[Totem Polar]

I think BBI is on to something with the complexity of our lives/society. I can remember when a BA was a terminal degree for a number of things, and I’m not *that*old. So the standards for entry are higher—and I’m sure the same can be said for blue collar/academic-optional work too. Couple that with the fact that there’s just so much shit vying for our time, and so many ways of existing in contemporary society, that it takes a while for kids to even begin to figure out what to do with themselves. There’s a lot to wade through just to eliminate stuff that’s not really workable long-term.

I see the legacy kids (eg. The Gracies starting jiu-jitsu before they can remember, and entering careers in their teens, or artist/writer/musician/restauranteur custom metalwork kids, etc.) as an exception, but it’s just a slog to carve out a niche these days.

As well, a lot of the trad niches aren’t really all that anymore: no fucking way I’d recommend that most people go into academia now, and I hear that sentiment a lot, from law to law enforcement, to whatever. Even docs tell me it ain’t the career it once was.

I do think that modern academia sells a lot of families and kids a bill of goods: I get to sit in on the meetings with administrators referring to students as commodities, with the sole push being "recruiting" to get the numbers up. There isn’t much talk of educating going on in the big-box state schools these days around all the talk of offering sexy "certificates" to boost the numbers (yes, higher ed ‘certs’ instead of degrees is a thing—the most recent meeting I am privvy to for brainstorming sexy new certs to "capture student traffic" was about 7 hours ago, as I type...).

Big Admin knows full well that they are moving largely towards edu-tainment to keep their 6-figure salaries, so yeah, "education" is not the meal ticket it used to be (unless you’re an administrator type...then go ahead and run with your bad, antisocial spectrum disorder self).

As to living longer, shorter, in between... who knows, right? Live for today and plan an exit strategy for tomorrow, yes, for sure.

I do think that it’s more important than ever to factor a little bit of job satisfaction into the equation, because almost any job can shit the bed unexpectedly and leave you scrambling these days, so may as well have a side order of enjoyment with the plate of uncertainty. JMO.

But hey, grain of salt: I’m a musician, for pete’s sake... the ink didn’t even begin to run black until my 30s. There’s nowhere to hide when it’s all about applied skill demonstrated in real time, and it took me much longer to get there than almost everyone else I know playing the game as primary.

[Joe in PNG]

We hear talk about how "complicated" today's society is, but, is it really all that complicated for a vast majority of jobs?

[rcbusmc24]

My dad died of cancer last year at 67. I'm 35.... both sides of my family historically die of heart failure in their mid 70s. Been in the Marine Corps as a Infantryman for a little over 16 years, joined at 19 after a year and a half / half assed attempt at college right out of high school. While I'm much more mature now (well.... as much as you can be as a grunt) I still don't know what I want to do when I " grow up". Shit... that's half the reason I reenlisted the first time. If I had EASedin 2005 I would have been right back home, back to the same college l left 4 years earlier, just with a cool new bullet scar on my arm and a GI bill to pay for it, but still no clue. Objectively speaking I'm at the halfway point right now. ... but I could get run over by a truck on my way into the base tomorrow. No sense worrying myself over it.

My dad put off some trips he wanted to take. He wanted to go back to Italy again, he had been stationed there on the USS Little Rock in the late 60's and then run Amphibs on MEUs through the Med in the 80s. He said the one thing he wished for after he got sick was more time. But in the end you get what you get, its up to you to make the most of it. Don't put things off and experiences will almost always trump possessions.

[RevolverRob]

So for clarity - though I'm now an academic; I'm on career #3 where I had success in #1 and #2. My family started our own business in 1998, I was 13-years old. By the time I was 17, I supervised one work crew doing construction, while I ran my own jobs independent and my dad ran his crew. And I'm not talking about after school, I was homeschooled that's slang for, "I worked every day." - By the time I was old enough to vote, I had enough managerial experience to skip managerial training for career #2.

I decided when I was 20, I'd had "enough" sweating my ass off doing construction in Texas. So off I went to college (plus I'd banked up a little "goof off" time, working all through "high school") - where I figured I'd get a business degree, then come back and be "the boss". To help pay for school, I took a job working retail (slingin' guns across glass) and in short order I was asked to be a manager and eventually to work for corporate, while still in school. I studied history and business - and discovered that "business school" is a bunch of bullshit. Seriously, none of my peers and very few profs had actually run a business before. It was all corporate line toeing AND you had to dress up (which I hated). Where most of my peers didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, I had helped run a multi-million dollar business and generate new clients, before doing corporate management for a multi-billion dollar business. - And I still couldn't get the time of day from most business execs and investors, because I didn't "play the game" in the old school way. And frankly I hated them all - they were riding someone else's coattails and weren't making it on their own. I'd only take the corporate job to pay for college, it wasn't my long-term goal. But in the end...I just hated it.

About that time, I discovered science and found out I was 1) Good at it. 2) Had a lot of freedom. 3) Didn't have to play the corporate game. 4) The politics in academia are marginal compared to shit I dealt with in the past. 5) I liked it. So I said, "Fuck business" and left. Which is probably where I made my biggest mistake...letting my 23-24 year old ego convince me that doing science was better than making money. I mean...it is...but I could be rich and doing science too.

___

Anyways all of that doesn't really address the point of this thread - but it can give you some perspective on me. I'm in the situation I am - because I put myself here - no one to blame but myself. BUT - as a result of that, in thinking about life - mine and others - I've realized that we, as a society, seem to be operating under the ASSumption that 80-85 years on this planet is a given, when it isn't. Sure, plan to live that long, that's fine. But I guess what I'm saying is - I wouldn't encourage 23-year old RevolverRob to be so quick to make the decision to be an academic, given a do over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy doing what I do, in fact, I love it. BUT 23-year old me thought I'd live to 90 with ease, so "there will always be time to make money" or "eventually the money will come". That may be true, but I might not live to see the fruits of a bunch of my labor. Setting myself up to see some of that well in advance of my "twilight" would have been ideal, I didn't do it - So me personally? I'm kind of screwed. But others may not be - and most importantly, I don't think we should be into the "happiness will provide" ideal that I was sold as a kid. Happiness is ephemeral and sooner or later we all die.


I think BBI is on to something with the complexity of our lives/society. I can remember when a BA was a terminal degree for a number of things, and I’m not *that*old. So the standards for entry are higher—and I’m sure the same can be said for blue collar/academic-optional work too. Couple that with the fact that there’s just so much shit vying for our time, and so many ways of existing in contemporary society, that it takes a while for kids to even begin to figure out what to do with themselves. There’s a lot to wade through just to eliminate stuff that’s not really workable long-term.

I see the legacy kids (eg. The Gracies starting jiu-jitsu before they can remember, and entering careers in their teens, or artist/writer/musician/restauranteur custom metalwork kids, etc.) as an exception, but it’s just a slog to carve out a niche these days.

As well, a lot of the trad niches aren’t really all that anymore: no fucking way I’d recommend that most people go into academia now, and I hear that sentiment a lot, from law to law enforcement, to whatever. Even docs tell me it ain’t the career it once was.

I do think that modern academia sells a lot of families and kids a bill of goods: I get to sit in on the meetings with administrators referring to students as commodities, with the sole push being "recruiting" to get the numbers up. There isn’t much talk of educating going on in the big-box state schools these days around all the talk of offering sexy "certificates" to boost the numbers (yes, higher ed ‘certs’ instead of degrees is a thing—the most recent meeting I am privvy to for brainstorming sexy new certs to "capture student traffic" was about 7 hours ago, as I type...).

Big Admin knows full well that they are moving largely towards edu-tainment to keep their 6-figure salaries, so yeah, "education" is not the meal ticket it used to be (unless you’re an administrator type...then go ahead and run with your bad, antisocial spectrum disorder self).

Academia is a shit show rapidly devolving. I'm too invested to get out, but I honestly suspect I'll be one of the last generations to get tenure and hold firmly to an academic job. The next generation is screwed to a degree. The only upside to the current shift (drift?) in academia - is that eventually academia will boil down to a 40-hour work week, where people have actual room in their schedules to live a life. Sure, it won't come with tenure, but it'll probably come with structured multi-year contracts. Sure, the end result will be less productivity in terms of intellectual development and discovery, but that trade off will be people who can function as quasi-human beings. Sure, the end result will be the loss of a certain degree of academic freedom, but the gain will (hopefully) be slightly better working conditions.




As to living longer, shorter, in between... who knows, right? Live for today and plan an exit strategy for tomorrow, yes, for sure.

I do think that it’s more important than ever to factor a little bit of job satisfaction into the equation, because almost any job can shit the bed unexpectedly and leave you scrambling these days, so may as well have a side order of enjoyment with the plate of uncertainty. JMO.

But hey, grain of salt: I’m a musician, for pete’s sake... the ink didn’t even begin to run black until my 30s. There’s nowhere to hide when it’s all about applied skill demonstrated in real time, and it took me much longer to get there than almost everyone else I know playing the game as primary.

I think satisfaction is very important. But that we shouldn't sacrifice everything for a little satisfaction. I was fed that line, "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." BULLSHIT. I work every damn day and do what I love. We should encourage satisfaction, but not "dream chasing" to the point of irresponsibility, which is kind of what I was told to do to some degree (I admit, I was dumb buying into it, too. But hey...I was like 23...).


We hear talk about how "complicated" today's society is, but, is it really all that complicated for a vast majority of jobs?

Nope. In my experience pretty much any corporate, retail, sales, or manufacturing job could be done by a trained monkey.

But sure certain jobs, law, tax accounting, medical doctor, geologist, engineering, etc - require actual training. It's one thing to be the assembly-line drone making cellphones, it's another to be the engineer designing the cellphone. BUT I think we should realize...Not everyone in the Army can be a General.

That means not everyone can be an engineer, an accountant, a doctor, or even a geologist. - We need Starbucks baristas (or less people in the world) and we need more baristas than we do engineers. But we're selling folks that they can all be engineers.

I think that's one cause of the symptoms I'm talking about. People in their 20s going to college and getting stupid degrees planning to live - effectively 80+ years - thinking they'll be engineers or something. When in reality most of them just need to be baristas or secretaries or cab drivers.

[Joe in PNG]

Academia has become a bubble economy, the same way that houses were in the late 00's, or Dot Coms back in the late 90's (and more if you go back far enough).

When the realization that a person who possess a degree may not be necessarily more qualified than one without hits, and when the realization that a six figure student loan debt isn't an instant ticket to the corner office and easy work, fewer people are going to be going. Which is a good thing- as you say, the world needs people to be baristas, plumbers, carpenters, and so on.

I'm in my 40's, and know quite a few people who are not using their expensive degrees.

Which is another problem with our current higher ed system. You have what are really kids, who have never had any responsibility, and they are having to make super expensive long term decisions that they aren't really ready to make. They then get a degree, and they don't like the job they are then qualified to do.

Better to spend a bit of time in the real world, and cut the cord of High School thinking. There's nothing like a bad, tough job to provide motivation for secondary education.

[Totem Polar]

A couple more thoughts: one, that whole "do what you love thing" has been absolutely proven to be incomplete; it’s even more important to find something that loves you back. You may be passionate beyond all compare over activity X, but if the world as a whole DGAF about activity X, then the money won’t follow, no matter how much you love what you do.

Of course, if you absolutely hate activity Y, then you’re going to bail out sooner or later, no matter how many zeros are in your salary—either by choice, or by slow, self-dosing suicide. So, balance.



When the realization that a person who possess a degree may not be necessarily more qualified than one without hits, and when the realization that a six figure student loan debt isn't an instant ticket to the corner office and easy work, fewer people are going to be going. Which is a good thing- as you say, the world needs people to be baristas, plumbers, carpenters, and so on...

This issue of people with less formal (higher) education being more qualified for specific activities than people with more education in the field is beginning to take on opiate-crisis proportions. RevRob already commented on business degrees vs business ownership; I can tell you that it’s almost a pardox in the arts. To wit: advanced degrees are seen largely as continuing ed for people that couldn’t develop workable professional chops earlier on.

The populace has got to realize that higher ed is just a megabucks tool you buy. It could be a tool to develop a more well-rounded and actualized version of you—and that’s great if you have the means—or it could be a tool that you have to buy wisely if you want to use it to build a career, and that’s sort of ok too, if you apply due dilligence and go in to the contract with your eyes open.

But there is this cultural ideal/mythos, one pushed by academia for it’s own survival by the people with the most money at stake (BOT and the shareholders of the corporate interests they are beholden to mainly, with the side table being administrators at and above the level of dean, in general terms) that higher ed is a ticket to ride, and that’s every bit as inaccurate and ginned up as, say, the average initial reports flying around mainstream media on any new topic.

A big part of navigating the complexity of today’s society is having good BS filters: yours, eventually, and parents/mentors/guides before yours gel up fully. Again, JMO.

[Duelist]

And you may love activity/subject X with all your heart, and you may be willing to devote your soul to it, but that does no good if you suck at it.

[walker2713]

I just turned 78.....

One day at a time, and thankful to be here! :cool:

[peterb]

My parents met when both were working overseas. Loved living abroad. They came home to take over mom's family business, and worked long hours while making great plans about how they'd travel when they retired. One bad business decision and that future disappeared.

It's hard to know how to balance planning for the future and living for today. If you really "lived as if every day would be your last" you'd wake up broke and unemployed tomorrow. But we can't count on making it to "someday....."

[Chance]

I think the fatalism of not planning to grow old is dangerous. It results in you making less-smart decisions with regards to health, finances, relationships, et cetera.

My SO is a surveyor at retirement homes and assisted living facilities, and she comes across a lot of very bad-off elderly folk. Ask them why they didn't take better care of themselves, and the short answer is, "I didn't think I'd live this long."

Ultimately, a distracted driver could take me out on my commute to campus this morning, or I could end up like my grandfather, who will be 90 this year and is still working 40 hours a week in his barbershop. I plan to get old, but if I don't make it, there's a lot of fuck all to be done about it. C'est la vie.


They then get a degree, and they don't like the job they are then qualified to do.


I teach in the engineering department at a large university, and I see this every day. Students getting ready to graduate hate the field they're in, but keep on anyway.

Similar thing happened to me. I started a degree plan that was closer to electrical engineering than computer science, and I hated it. It took me a solid year worth of banging my head on circuit diagrams before I had the painfully obvious epiphany of, "Why am I doing this shit? I hate this shit. I don't want a job doing this shit."

Why it took me that long, I'll never know.


Of course, if you absolutely hate activity Y, then you’re going to bail out sooner or later, no matter how many zeros are in your salary—either by choice, or by slow, self-dosing suicide. So, balance.


Beginning to see that a lot in medicine. You've got to be desperately unhappy to walk away from the money physicians make, but people do it all the time.

[Matt O]

Typing on my phone so this might be a bit jumbled.

I think a lot of the points about the value of higher ed and academia are spot on, but I think it depends very highly on the degree. As Sidheshooter mentioned, this is a serious crisis for the arts.

I was a lit major undergrad because I believed my well-intentioned parents who said do what you love. I’ve since gone through a couple careers, done an MBA and moved on to something a bit more pragmatic. Since I work in higher ed financial administration, a business degree with a focus on accounting and finance wasn’t 100% applicable in terms of content taught/learned. But I went into it with an understanding that I wanted to expand my professional training in these areas and, more importantly for career growth, I needed to tick that box. Did I need the lit degree to get where I am now? No obviously not. But there are a lot of careers where you don’t inherently develop enough knowledge without professional training that is hard to get outside of higher ed.

Interested in working at an investment firm? Spending all day reading bogleheads won’t get you to the same place as a finance degree. Want to become a CPA, (requirements for sitting for the test aside), how are you going to learn the nuances of US GAAP, tax law, etc without formal training? A starter job in the mailroom at one of the big firms ain’t going to get you on the right track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hambo]

I'm beginning to question the legitimacy of planning certain things to occur after your say 50s.

As someone who has reached that debilitating decade I have this advice: suck it up and drive on. The feelings you're experiencing are not new or unique to you. Life at 50, 60, or 70 is different, but it's still good.

So in the words of Ellis Boyd Redding, "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

[JTQ]

Plan for everything, but with the knowledge "Life (or death) happens, and your plans will change."

If you haven't seen it, I suggest you watch the film "Up" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1049413/

Another thought provoker, this one from Mike Rowe at Prager University "Don't Follow Your Passion" https://www.prageru.com/videos/dont-follow-your-passion

[BehindBlueI's]

We hear talk about how "complicated" today's society is, but, is it really all that complicated for a vast majority of jobs?

Society and jobs are different questions...but yes to both. The simple act of finding a job is significantly more complicated today. There are more jobs to choose from. Simply finding a job is more complicated. There are so many more options, you aren't geographically restricted, you aren't restricted by caste, by sex (mostly), what your daddy does, etc.

Hell, look at a farmer in the 1800s or earlier vs today. The equipment and technique aside, now you've got to navigate a much more complicated environment of taxes, insurance, subsidies, etc. There wasn't much in the way of complying with labor laws or verifying immigration, etc. A 13 year old can easily understand and execute how to plant, care for, and harvest potatoes as a serf. There's little chance a 13 year old could run a modern potato farm.

[Stephanie B]

My mom is 94. Dad died at 74 from metastasized lung cancer. Grandparents: One stroked out at 52, one died at 60 of blood poisoning before antibiotics were readily available, two made it into their 80s. One uncle died in his 50s from heart failure brought on by a sudden case of bullet wounds.

In my mother's retirement community, I've met a lot of women in their 90s. On the other hand, an old shipmate of mine lost his first wife to cancer in her late 20s. Another friend got a call from her daughter-in-law: Her son, who had survived two tours in the Sandbox, went to culinary school and was happily working as an assistant chef in a classy restaurant, laid down for a nap and never woke up. He was 32.

The tough thing is to plan to live forever and have fun as though you won't. If you can afford to take that long road trip or visit Paris when you're in your 30s, really think about doing it. It's all a balance.

(And if you're in a dead-end, or if you have to gobble antacids to make it through the day, do what you can to change things.)

[blues]

As someone who has reached that debilitating decade I have this advice: suck it up and drive on. The feelings you're experiencing are not new or unique to you. Life at 50, 60, or 70 is different, but it's still good.

So in the words of Ellis Boyd Redding, "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

Tell it brother.

You younger guys will be happily surprised to find out that you can reach your middle 60's and still feel strong, fit and able to do most everything you once did, even if to a slightly lesser degree. (I won't be able to comment on subsequent decades for a while yet.)

I'm still benching, deadlifting, pressing etc, along with the recent addition of kettlebell swings to enhance cardio a few times a week. You can keep your strength (if not necessarily your hair or its original color). You can also retire (financially) in comfort with some planning aforethought.

Don't let fear or negativism keep you from success. I don't worry about how long I'll live. I worry about the quality of life up until I draw that last breath.

[Chance]

The simple act of finding a job is significantly more complicated today.

Jobs are different, too. The days of going to work for a company, staying there for 30 years, and then retiring on the company dime are over.

[walker2713]

I just turned 78.....

One day at a time, and thankful to be here! :cool:

To elaborate a little.....

Life is what happens when you've made other plans.

Goals and plans are good, but I believe it's likely that you'll look back one day and find that life's road has taken you in unexpected and unplanned directions.....

I look back with both satisfaction in some areas, and serious regrets in others.

But, it is what it is.

In some ways older people may be happier than younger people...we know how life turned out, in good ways and bad!

George

[blues]

To elaborate a little.....

Life is what happens when you've made other plans.

Goals and plans are good, but I believe it's likely that you'll look back one day and find that life's road has taken you in unexpected and unplanned directions.....

I look back with both satisfaction in some areas, and serious regrets in others.

But, it is what it is.

In some ways older people may be happier than younger people...we know how life turned out, in good ways and bad!

George

And we don't have to dread Sunday evenings because there's no school and no work the next day!!! Every day is a snow day!

[Robert Mitchum]

WhenYourTimeIsUp


https://youtu.be/rNOJpElwEmE

[TiroFijo]

The unlucky pedestrian survived that freak accident...

Apparently, with no lasting (major?) injuries.

[Duelist]

The unlucky pedestrian survived that freak accident...

Apparently, with no lasting (major?) injuries.

Wow! Cause, that looked like he was done.

[TiroFijo]

From: http://curiosamente.diariodepernambuco.com.br/project/homem-sobrevive-apos-ser-atingido-por-pneu/

Roberto Carlos Fernandes, 50, was walking with his daughter on a side street of BR-381 in the municipality of Ipatinga, Minas Gerais, when he was hit by a tire that was detached from a truck. The incident occurred on February 17, 2017 and was video-recorded by cameras from a store.

Roberto Carlos fell on the floor unconscious at the time of the crash. He suffered a thorax bruise and an injueries to the face and remains in the hospital, where he is recovering. "Thanks God I'm recovering. I'm still struggling with some things, but thanks God, I'm recovering, given what has happened, right? "The victim told G1.

According to the Federal Highway Police, the driver of the vehicle that caused the accident did not notice that he was driving with a tire missing until he stopped at a service station, located a few miles from the accident. Roberto Carlos is not at risk of life."

[karmapolice]

I am older than I once was and younger than I'll be; that's not unusual nor is it strange. After changes upon changes we are more or less the same. -S&G

I say this is an existential question as most good ones are (what does it mean to be good though). We live in a fluid world where everything changes but stays the same in ways. We are constantly entering new territory where even students of history and or anthropology can't say with confidence what might happen to us as there is no precedence for the global collectiveness and other forces with in the world of today. On top of that tomorrow is a new day with new frontiers.