DotW 18: Draws & Reloads

[ToddG]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 18: Draws & Reloads
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Monday 6-February-2012.

Range: 7yd
Target: 8" circle
Start position: holstered
Rounds fired: 60

This week we are really going to drill, repeating similar techniques multiple times to build skill.

First, draw and fire 3 rounds at the 8" circle. Record your total time and your draw (first shot). Repeat for a total of 10 runs, 30 rounds.

Second, draw and fire 1 round at the 8" circle, reload, and fire two more rounds at the 8" circle. Record your total time, your draw, and your reload. Repeat for a total of 10 runs, 30 rounds.

(this is just like the first two parts of the 99 Drill, but on a much bigger target so you should be able to push your speed accordingly)



If you cannot draw from the holster, instead begin from a ready position.



Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

starting position (ready position, open holster, retention holster, or concealed)
type of reload you performed (slidelock, in battery, magazine retention)
total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any
total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any
best and worst time for the draws (all 20, from both strings of fire)
best and worst reload


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Ptrlcop]

Safariland 6378
Slidelock Reload
Total time string 1:20.07
Total time string 2: 40.35

Best Draw:1.35 Worst Draw: 1.87
Best Reload 1.82 Worst Reload:2.66

[Mr_White]

Concealed AIWB, stock G34
Slidelock reloads
Total draw, 3 shots time: 13.65, 5 misses
Total 1R2 time: 33.88, 7 misses
Best and worst draw time: .89, 1.10
Best and worst reload time: 1.76, 2.59

Draw, 3 target:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6798013439_98e9c55e45.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6798013439/) DotW18_Draws (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6798013439/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

Draw, 1R2 target:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6798013601_04b35b1388.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6798013601/) DotW18_Reloads (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6798013601/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

The DotW is always fun (wait, that’s not always true, but when it’s not true it is my fault!), educational, and a little stressful for me since I know the results are going on the internetz.

I definitely felt the stress on this one, at least before I actually started shooting it, and I attribute the first and slowest draw of all of them (the 1.10) to the resulting delay on target in an effort to be sure of the hit.

Wasn’t happy that I threw misses on this one. In the past I’d have rationalized the close misses, which most of them were, but not anymore. Too many misses even if they are half an inch out!

This DotW again served to remind me that the difference between excellent shooting and poor shooting is often no more than a moment of inattention or misplaced attention. I caught myself target focusing intermittently on this drill, and those were the times I missed, with only a few exceptions.

The reloads that got messed up were because of either failing to clear the cover garment on the first attempt, or failing to cleanly insert the new magazine on the first attempt.

I noted that my first shot times were delayed on the reloading portion, I suspect because I personally have more confidence in drawing and shooting three times than I do with draw, 1R2. Overall I did a poor job of getting in visual control of the gun when pressing back out after the reload. Most of the misses came from the post-reload shots.

Overall, what I needed to do consistently, but only did intermittently, is to get in visual control of the gun and be sure of each shot. Somebody slap me! Or at least shame me with your clean targets…

Here’s all the raw data since I wrote it down:

Draw, shoot 3:

1.10, .22, .15 = 1.47 –1, low
.92, .22, .18 = 1.32 clean
.96, .25, .17 = 1.38 clean
.99, .21, .21 = 1.41 clean
.91, .21, .21 = 1.33 –1, high
.97, .25, .19 = 1.41 –1, low
.92, .25, .17 = 1.34 clean
.93, .15, .25 = 1.33 clean
.96, .15, .25 = 1.36 clean
.89, .21, .20 = 1.30 –1, high right

After I got done I saw there was another ½” low miss I had not previously noticed. Not sure which rep it came from.

Draw, 1R2:

1.06, 1.77, .25 = 3.08 clean
.99, 1.81, .25 = 3.05 –2, both a little high, was target focused after reload
1.02, 2.19, .24 = 3.45 clean, mag insertion error
1.02, 2.59, .43 = 4.04 –1, target focused after reload, bad error clearing shirt for reload
1.05, 1.88, .23 = 3.16 clean
1.00, 1.96, .22 = 3.18 clean
1.04, 2.39, .25 = 3.68 clean, empty mag didn’t fall free, then didn’t insert new mag perfectly
.96, 2.19, .24 = 3.39, -2, third shot slightly high, second shot jerked way low in C zone, another error clearing the shirt
1.01, 2.56, .25 = 3.82 clean, not a good day clearing my shirt for the reload!
1.01, 1.76, .26 = 3.03 –2, both slightly low, target focused again

[MDS]

starting position: G19 (stock w/ Sevigny carrys) in a Milt Sparks SS2 under a closed button-down shirt
slidelock reloads
3-shot draws: 23.18 -7
1-R-2: 50.95 -7
best/worst draw: 1.47/2.15
best/worst reload: 2.35/3.18


Lots of inconsistency as I experimented with going faster vs. guaranteeing hits. I'm beginning "phase 3" of my training plan, with a strong focus on reloads, so I see a lot of 1-R-2 in my near future.

[167]

Start Position: High compressed ready
Reload Type: Slide lock (reloads from under closed front cover garment)

Total time for 3 shot presentations/draws: 19.61
Fastest: 0.87
Slowest: 1.26

Total time for 1r3: 40.37
Fastest reload: 2.54
Slowest reload: 2.87

[BN]

G-17 open front 511 vest.
Slide lock reloads
Total time draw 3: 22.86 2 misses
Total time 1-R-2: 43.39 0 misses
best draw: 1.64
worst draw: 1.96
best reload: 2.11
worst reload: 2.56

[CCT125US]

HK P30 V3 Heinie Straight Eight Qwik

* starting position (concealed AIWB)
* type of reload you performed (slide lock)
* total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any (19.58 -4)
* total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any (39.17 -0)
* best and worst time for the draws (1.00 / 1.57)
* best and worst reload (1.86 / 2.42)

Well, I enjoyed this drill because I had several firsts..... I had my fastest draw at 1 second flat, and had some splits in the teens, something that I have been unable to do. I think I may have discovered my problem though.... my finger placement on the trigger required to get an accurate DA first hit with a press out does not lend itself to speed unless I change the position on the follow up shot. Now, don't read that as I think DA is slow... it has more to do with the leverage I personally need to work the trigger. After the reload if my finger landed more towards the tip I was able to work the trigger faster. This is enlightening and frustrating at the same time.

I disliked this drill because my favorite shirt does not lend itself to fast and consistent draws.... seems like a hoodie is fastest for me.

[JFK]

- HK P30 V2, C&D Paridus, Desbien Mag Carrier
- Concealment AIWB, untucked polo
- Slide Lock reload

Total Time for String 1 : 23.15
Best Time for String 1: 1.86 clean
Total Miss for String 1: 1
Best / Worst Draw for String 1: 1.01 / 1.98

Total Time for String 2: 42.82
Best Time for String 2: 3.01 clean
Total Miss for String 2: 4
Best Draw for String 2: 1.12 / 2.01
Best Reload for String 2: 1.51 / 2.98

[rsa-otc]

M&P 45 Apex DCAEK
OWB Holster 4 o'clock
Unbuttoned Shirt

String 1:
Total time: 24.86
Best/Worst: 2.08/2.82
Best/Worst Draw: 1.59/2.26
Total Misses: 3

String 2:
Slide Lock Reload
Total Time: 47.57
Best/Worst Time: 4.49/5.04
Best/Worst Draw: 1.68/2.14
Best Worst Reload: 2.45/2.93
Total Misses: 1

[jstyer]

M&P 9mm w/5 inch threaded barrel. Trijicon sights.

From bladetech wrs thumb break retention holster.

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6cd0872-371e-48a8.jpg

150 rounds for the first drill in the left target. 150 round of the second drill in the right target.

The more observant will notice the 22 cal holes where I was sighting in my buis on my AR.

I'm incredibly embarrased to say that I don't own a shot timer. I have a crappy phone timer that at least I can do par times on... All of my strings for the first drill were under 3 second. And I didn't even really try to time the second drill

On a good note my M&P just passed the 2000 round challenge! All 2000 rounds were with Aguila 124 gr. 9mm.



edited due to accidental submition...

[JV_]

Concealed / CCC Shaggy/ Glock 17
Slidelock Reload

10 x (3) Shot Draw: 17.7s
10 x 1R2: 36.16s

Best Draw: 1.21
Average Draw: 1.3
Worst Draw: 1.40

Best Reload: 1.99
Average Reload: 2.11
Worst Reload: 2.43 (fumbled my shirt)

I forgot to count my misses, but I did have a few high on the 1R2 portion.

[Pennzoil]

o starting position: Concealed AIWB under closed front shirt
o type of reload you performed: Slidelock
o total time for ten 3-shot draws: 24.02
o total time for ten 1-R-2 45.9
o best and worst time for the draws 1.40 / 1.97
o best and worst reload 2.29 / 3.70

Looking back I should of pushed myself more and tried to stay around the 10% miss rate. Worst reload happened on failure to lock back due to broken slide stop. Pictures post 79 (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?280-A-different-take-on-reliability-Guns-you-ve-personally-seen-fail/page8)

[joshs]

Concealed / CCC Shaggy/ P30
Slidelock Reload

10 x (3) Shot Draw: 20.11s -3
10 x 1R2: 35.71s -2

Best Draw: 1.35
Average Draw: 1.48
Worst Draw: 1.61

Best Reload: 1.69
Average Reload:1.89
Worst Reload: 2.51

[BaiHu]

HK P30L V3

* starting position: OWB under an open jacket
* type of reload you performed: in battery
* total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any: 30.17 (-7)
* total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any: 50.84 (-2)
* best and worst time for the draws: 2.04/2.75
* best and worst reload: 2.11/3.35

[C45P312]

G17 + 6004

o starting position: surrender position
o type of reload you performed: Slidelock
o total time for ten 3-shot draws: 31.12
o total time for ten 1-R-2 49.39
o best and worst time for the draws 1.41 / 1.84
o best and worst reload 2.12 / 5.57 (fumbled like a mofo)

[JConn]

Concealed / CCC Shaggy / Glock 19
Slidelock reload

10 x(3) Shot Draw: 26.69 (-1)
10 x 1R2: 47.71 (-2)

Best Draw: 1.75
Average Draw: 1.91
Worst Draw: 2.17

Best Reload: 2.44
Average Reload: 2.67
Worst Reload: 2.94

I was OK with my draws, as I was really working my press out. Funny thing is it ended up being about as fast as I normally go. I could not seem to push the speed any faster without sacrificing either first shot accuracy or follow up shot accuracy.

The problem with my reload at this point seems to be the follow up shot. The actual reload is pretty speedy (completely relative) but my grip is terrible coming back to the target. I followed this up with a bunch of Bill Drills and it seemed to improve throughout the rest of the day. I am having a hard time locking my left hand down.

[jthhapkido]

Starting Position: wearing winter coveralls with a USPSA Production rig belted on outside of it, snow on the ground, and 24 degrees.
Gun: Gen 4 G17, warren tactical sights
Reload type: In-battery.

3-shot runs:
Total Time: 17.14 (-4)
Fastest Draw: 1.08
Slowest Draw: 1.37
Best Run: 1.57
Worst Run: 1.91
Misses: 4
Splits ranged from 0.19 to 0.31
Second split was consistently faster than the first one.

1R2 runs:
Total Time: 34.74 (-4)
Fastest Draw: 1.09
Slowest Draw: 1.19
Best Run: 3.04
Worst Run: 4.04 (!)
Best Reload: 1.65
Worst Reload: 2.54 (!)
Misses: 4
Splits ranged from 0.28 to 0.32.


I've noticed in any given chain of shots, my first split is always significantly slower than my followup splits.

On the 3-shot drill, my times fairly consistently dropped throughout the drill (my first run was 1.91, my last 1.57).

On the 1R2, my times were either approximately 3.10 or approximately 3.50, with one 4.0. Consistent for the most part, with the only real change based on whether I fumbled the reload or not. If I didn't, the reload was 1.7, if I did, the reload was 2.1---as my hands were frozen bricks by this time, this doesn't really surprise me. Pulled 3 out of the four misses on the last two runs, by which time my hands were fumbling often.

[Chris Rhines]

IDPA rules - Glock 34 SSP, concealed OWB holster, slide-lock reload

Draws - total 20.56 (-6)
Best run - 1.87
Worst run - 2.35
Best draw - 1.49 (during the 1R2 string)
Worst draw - 1.87

Reloads - total 35.74 (-3)
Best run - 3.44
Worst run - 3.96
Best reload - 1.69
Worst reload - 2.00

Disappointed with my draws, they should be at least 0.1-0.2s faster. Reloads were okay.
I noticed, about halfway through the 1R2 stage, that I had slowed way down on the splits after the reload. I made a particular effort to speed up for the last half, and cut my average run time down by about 0.1s, without affecting my hits.

-C

[DocGKR]

Earlier this week I shot the DotW:

M&P45 w/RMR02 in a OWB Comptac belt holster at 3 o'clock concealed under a soft shell TNF jacket.
All Slide lock reloads.

Draw fire 3 x 10: total time = 21.26 sec (ave = 2.13 sec) with 5 missed shots (all last shots).
Draw 1R2 x 10: total time = 44.8 sec (ave = 4.48 sec), clean.
Best draw = 1.50 sec; worst draw = 1.90 sec.
Best reload = 2.30 sec; worst reload = 3.23 sec.

I definitely had issues controlling the last shot on the 3 shot strings; I was also not too happy with my reloads.

Rather than waste my time watching the Super Bowl, I snuck down to the range and re-shot the drill this afternoon.

G17 w/RMR07 in an AIWB Fricke Seraphim concealed under a soft shell TNF vest.
All Slide lock reloads.

Draw fire 3 x 10: total time = 18.99 sec (ave = 1.90 sec), clean.
Draw 1R2 x 10: total time = 43.84 sec (ave = 4.38 sec), clean.
Best draw = 1.32 sec; worst draw = 1.84 sec.
Best reload = 2.23 sec; worst reload = 2.87 sec.

As a comparison, I also ran it with an M&P9 using iron sights concealed the same as with the G17.

Draw fire 3 x 10: total time = 17.97 sec (ave = 1.80 sec), 4 missed shots
Draw 1R2 x 10: total time = 40.19 sec (ave = 4.02 sec), 5 missed shots.
Best draw = 1.29 sec; worst draw = 1.58 sec.
Best reload = 2.13 sec; worst reload = 2.55 sec.

------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line:
I shoot 9 mm better than .45 ACP.
I shoot an RDS better than iron sights
I shoot an M&P9 better than a G17

As a result, I will be phasing out my .45 ACP usage and concentrating on 9 mm this year.

When practicable (ie. when I leave California and move to a free state), I will be transitioning away from 9 mm Glocks and shifting to M&P9's.

[ToddG]

starting position: concealed draw

type of reload you performed: slidelock

Iron sights:
total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any: 16.79, -1
total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any: 34.20, -1
best and worst time for the draws (all 20, from both strings of fire): best 1.10, worst 1.49
best and worst reload: best 1.76, worst 2.52

Laser:
total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any: 16.37, -1
total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any: 32.52, clean
best and worst time for the draws (all 20, from both strings of fire): best 1.08, worst 1.38
best and worst reload: best 1.69, worst 2.24

I've only been shooting once a week -- and a fairly light practice session at that -- for a few weeks and it's interesting to see the effect it's having. In particular, I had quite a few fumbled reloads... a problem that I see all the time when I try to push at my "best" speed but am at less than "best" preparation.

[EmanP]

Concealed G17. Slidelock reload since that seems to be the baseline everyone is posting.

3 shot draws total - 17.53, -3
I short stroked the trigger twice causing me to panic and yanking shots making a mess of it.

Slide lock reloads - 37.09, -10
I haven't practiced slide lock reloads in I don't know how long. The first few times I dropped the slide before I finished seating the mag causing me to have to rack the slide. After the 2nd time I did it I paid closer attention to not repeating that. I also found that I wan't getting a good solid grip after the reload and my finger was on the trigger in a different location. I felt pressured to go fast and didn't fix the grip before shooting the 2 rounds. As a result 1/2 of my post reload shots were to the left of the target. Really messy.

Best and worst draws were on the 2nd string - 1.08/1.54
Best and worst reloads - 1.74/3.17

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg521/scaled.php?server=521&filename=1stdrill.jpg&res=medium

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg545/scaled.php?server=545&filename=2nddrill.jpg&res=medium

[CraigBos]

Starting position: Low ready

Type of reload you performed: Slidelock from under a shirt

Total time for ten 3-shot draws, and number of shots missed if any*: 52.5, -4.3
Total time for ten 1-R-2, and number of shots missed if any: 87.7, -13
Best and worst time for the draws (all 20, from both strings of fire): best 1.64, worst 2.98
Best and worst reload: best 4.63, worst 6.52

* Due to poor execution, I only shot 7 strings on the 3-shot draws. The numbers reported have been normalized to 10 (i.e. actual sum * 10 / 7). Hence 4.3 misses, LOL.

And yeah, that's a lot of misses on 1-R-2. I'm worried about that because I was also missing big shooting 2" circles and a 3x5 card. All of those misses were with ammo I'd never used before (American Eagle 124 gr FMJ), so I hope that's the cause. But I also noticed some play between the striker block and the frame. The pistol is an M&P 9 Full Size.

Then again maybe I'm just generally more awful than even I thought.

Hopefully it shoots like normal again next time at the range shooting my normal Federal Champion 115 gr FMJ. We'll see.