Beretta PX4 Storm .45 High round count, long duration usage.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I am about to hit 30,000 rounds on one of my PX4 .45s. I have taken good care of it and it runs very well.

I am looking for (or ready to share) feedback or information from anyone who has experience in taking the .45 Storm to a high round count. The characteristics of the .45 are different from the 9mm & .40, though there are similarities.

What kind of maintenance, parts or spring changes, etc.?

[JTQ]

At 30,000 rounds, I'd think you are the high round count PX4 in .45 ACP guy people would be asking for information about maintenance, parts, etc.

Congratulations, by the way.

[PNWTO]

I'd be interested in reading a write-up in the style of the 2K Challenge about stoppages, gremlins, trends, and whatnot.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

JTQ, Thanks!

I have had a dozen PX4 Storms since they first came out. I have many thousands of rounds on all the Storms, but.... I cannot know if there are better ways to maintain or work with them, if my own opinion is my only source. :)

With my shooting partner's .45 Storm SD and my EDC .45 Storm (I also had one of the first PX4 .45s released) my problem has been finding anyone who has taken a .45 Storm past the first oil change.

I am hoping input and discussion will prove enjoyable and interesting. I've kept extensive records of everything in maintenance and parts on all of my Storms. (Therefore, the name Storm Tracker).

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

PNWTO, I made a note of your interest. I will put something together. However, "runs like a sewing machine" is a good start for now.

[JTQ]

I just noticed you are a new member. Welcome.

You may not have seen our 2,000 round challenge. You could even do one and post it. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9-2-000-Round-Challenge

Also, Ernest Langdon has done a bunch with his 9mm compact and full size and has threads for each. He comments in both about maintenance issues on both guns that have been in the 50,000 round range.

PX4 Compact https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19

PX4 Full Size https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25341-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Underrated-is-an-Understatement!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I just noticed you are a new member. Welcome.

You may not have seen our 2,000 round challenge. You could even do one and post it. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9-2-000-Round-Challenge

Also, Ernest Langdon has done a bunch with his 9mm compact and full size and has threads for each. He comments in both about maintenance issues on both guns that have been in the 50,000 round range.

PX4 Compact https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19

PX4 Full Size https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25341-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Underrated-is-an-Understatement!


Thanks much! JTQ

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I'd be interested in reading a write-up in the style of the 2K Challenge about stoppages, gremlins, trends, and whatnot.

PNWTO, Do you want a detailed report or generalities? I don't want to give you too much. I have kept very detailed records.

[MSparks909]

PNWTO, Do you want a detailed report or generalities? I don't want to give you too much. I have kept very detailed records.

This is PF after all...give us the details! What’s your maintenance schedule been like? Any breakages?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This is PF after all...give us the details! What’s your maintenance schedule been like? Any breakages?

I will post it from my "log". If it genders questions or confusion, I encourage anyone to point it out and ask! I'm going to like this PF after all...

[beenalongtime]

I just noticed you are a new member. Welcome.

You may not have seen our 2,000 round challenge. You could even do one and post it. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9-2-000-Round-Challenge

Also, Ernest Langdon has done a bunch with his 9mm compact and full size and has threads for each. He comments in both about maintenance issues on both guns that have been in the 50,000 round range.

PX4 Compact https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19

PX4 Full Size https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25341-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Underrated-is-an-Understatement!

In one of those threads, he talks about talking with the designer (aka the one who should have your answers). On top of that I would think you should be able to find what the requirements were for, and the testing of the SD PX4. I would be interested to see if there are differences in the recommendations for the SD and standard models. You might PM him with this thread, as he may know more that would be of interest to several.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Since Beretta re-tuned the extractor at the beginning (see log below), this pistol has been completely reliable.
If I don't change the slide rebound spring between 4-5,000 rounds a tight magazine will slow the chambering of a 1st round, occasionally. That happened twice, long ago. No longer.

The pistol is 100% reliable. I keep ahead on cleaning and lubricating, so function and wear & tear are exceptional.
I use 6 dedicated range magazines (9 rounders, 1 10 rounder, blue) and 4 are dedicated to "dropping" to the ground.
I only shoot off any battered +P rounds when I put in a new rebound spring.

I don't know what else to put concerning tendencies. Please specify anything anyone wants to know.

My EDC Storm .45 is set up identically, tested and put through the ringer for 2,086 rounds, then totally disassembled and "sterilized" It gets field stripped every few weeks for cleaning and re-lubrication. It runs flawlessly, always has.

Here are the maintenance details below:


ROUTINE MAINTENANCE: Logged chronologically from the bottom to the top
Firing pin channel and internal slide parts cleaned, new firing pin
block plunger spring, remove and clean slide catch & port
@25,200 12/2/17
Frame disassembly and clean: hammer group, trigger group, mag
release, slide catch, breakdown latch & channel.
Replace hammer strut pin, hammer pin spring & disassembly latch spring
@20,300 9/30/17
Firing pin channel and internal slide parts cleaned @20,000 9/23/17
Firing pin channel and internal slide parts cleaned, new extractor
roll pin. 6/25/17 @14,400.
Frame disassembly and clean: hammer group, trigger group, mag
release, slide catch @11,335 4/20/17
Grease hammer pivot pin, hammer sides, hammer sears, trigger
bar 5/3/17 @11,750
Firing pin channel and internal slide parts cleaned. Remove
and clean slide catch and port 3/4/17 @ 9,722
Firing pin channel and internal slide parts cleaned, new decocker
lever roll pin @5,004 2/4/16 (has single extractor
spring)

EXTRA MAINTENANCE: Logged chronologically from the bottom to the top
Wash out firing pin block plunger (in place) with Beretta CLP oil
(was feeling sticky) @17,550 8/19/17
Remove and clean slide catch, spring & port 7/1/17 @14,800
Replace decocker lever pin 7/1/17 @14,800
Replace hammer pin 6/29/17 @14,600
Replace Hammer pin spring (old one weak), also lube hammer
group parts & trigger bar w/grease @14,200 6/17/17
Lube hammer group parts & trigger bar w/grease @13,000 5/25/17
Lube hammer group parts & trigger bar to
trigger pivot w/Beretta oil @12,800 5/21/17
Worked poorly. Action light, but creaky feeling.
Slide catch removed for cleaning @6,675 4/2/16
Remove and clean mag catch and area @5,686 2/20/16
Received back from Beretta w/extractor adjusted and I put
new Low Profile kit. 3/25/15
Sent back to Beretta- failure to go to battery 3/10/15
(as F model) @453 rounds
Low profile kit 2/21/15



HAMMER SPRINGS: logged chronologically from the top to bottom
D hammer spring installed 4/13/17 @10,947
Measured (round count is spring's):
4/19/17 @288 DA 7lbs 14oz, SA 3lbs 14oz
5/22/17 @1,853 DA 7lbs 5oz, SA 3lbs 12oz
6/1/17 @2,453 DA 6lbs 8oz, SA 3lbs 12oz
12/6/17 @14,523 DA 6lbs 8oz, SA 3lbs 12oz

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

In one of those threads, he talks about talking with the designer (aka the one who should have your answers). On top of that I would think you should be able to find what the requirements were for, and the testing of the SD PX4. I would be interested to see if there are differences in the recommendations for the SD and standard models. You might PM him with this thread, as he may know more that would be of interest to several.

That is a great idea.... only thing is... I tried talking to anyone at Beretta above the Customer Service level without success. I have talked to the Parts Manager and the Head Gunsmith, but they don't deal with high round count usage. They try to be helpful, but say that they don't encounter many people using their Storms that much, certainly not in .45.
Often their information is inaccurate. They have to deal with a lot of Beretta products.

We also have a .45 SD that we are using and monitoring. The PVD parts wear much more slowly.

[LangdonTactical]

This is very interesting to me. Sounds like PX4 Storm Tracker is the guy to ask about the .45 for sure!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This is very interesting to me. Sounds like PX4 Storm Tracker is the guy to ask about the .45 for sure!

You are very kind. Having you in this thread is great! Your videos and teachings are of great help and interest to me.

[MSparks909]

Might have missed it but did you replace the recoil spring assembly at all? If not that’s very impressive.

[fixer]

We need a "new member of the year" award.

[fixer]

Since Beretta re-tuned the extractor at the beginning (see log below), this pistol has been completely reliable.

Sent back to Beretta- failure to go to battery 3/10/15
(as F model) @453 rounds
Low profile kit 2/21/15



Man. Great post. I had a 45 PX4 a few years ago that did this. I highly suspected the extractor. I wish I had followed through. I traded the unit in with disclosure for a 92 variant.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Might have missed it but did you replace the recoil spring assembly at all? If not that’s very impressive.

So sorry! I mentioned that I change the slide rebound spring every 4-5,000 rounds, but forgot to put the data. (New at this)

Here it is in chronological order bottom to top:
CHANGE FROM SPRING:
#6 @ 28,240 1/7/18
#5 @ 23,000 11/4/17
#4 @ 18,000 8/28/17
#3 @ 13,400 5/31/17
#2 @ 9,252 11/26/16
#1 @ 4,746 12/19/15

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

We need a "new member of the year" award.

Thanks, but it is only January. I'll be outdone as soon as everyone's New Year's resolutions wear off!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Man. Great post. I had a 45 PX4 a few years ago that did this. I highly suspected the extractor. I wish I had followed through. I traded the unit in with disclosure for a 92 variant.

When the PX4 .45 first came out I was among the first to get one. It suffered from the Failure to go to Battery after 50 rounds consistently. I put 2,600 rounds through it and sent it back to Beretta twice. They could not figure it out. They refunded my money.

I went back to the PX4 Full sized .40 for years and was disappointed. Later, I tried again and got a flawless .45 Storm (my current EDC) It was so good that I got another one later for beating up on at the range and training. I called it my .45 SD (Stunt Double). Later, they started making an actual SD!

My point is that back in the beginning they did not know how to fix it. They learned through time that .45s are a breed of their own and needed a certain tweaking occasionally. So many came back at first with that issue that they knew exactly what to do about it. 1911s often are sensitive to loading issues due to extractor issues. My thought is that the diameter/length ratio of .45 is very different and needs to be set up accordingly. Now Beretta knows exactly what to do if you want to try again.

My shooting partner's .45 SD (actual Special Duty) suffered from that and they fixed in a couple of weeks.... flawless performance ever since.

[fixer]

Thanks for the information.

I'd like to try an SD. the whole package is cool.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Thanks for the information.

I'd like to try an SD. the whole package is cool.

I also like that the SD has the PVD coating on many internal parts. The PVD wears less quickly than Bruniton. I will try to add pictures of an SD trigger bar & a regular .45's @about 11,000 rounds, as an example. 2308423085.

Other than the trigger bar, the hammer and sear are not PVD coated. So the action is not dramatically affected.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I also have broken down the springs and pins into categories for rotation.
The springs are divided into those that affect safety or cycle of operation and those that affect trigger pull. I try to not replace the springs pertaining to trigger pull if not necessary.

Springs that apply to safety:
Firing pin block plunger spring: Every 25,000 or so. This gets dirty and getting stuck in the upward position would be dangerous.
Trigger bar spring: Every 30,000. The trigger bar needs to vigorously pop up to fire quickly.
Hammer pin retaining spring: If it is low or weak your hammer pin can drift out and catch on clothing, holster or skin. In .45 they can drift if not solid. I go by feel and height of top bar.
Slide catch spring: Depending on if you go to slide lock a lot, replace when weak (should go a long time)
Decocker (safety) lever spring: The firing pin helps stabilize the decocker shaft, but a strong, new spring will assist in keeping things in place.
Magazine release spring: It is strong and solid. Should last a long time (but watch the catch on the mag release outer housing).
Disassembly latch spring: I change this every 20,000. It is a thin spring and doesn't like being removed for cleaning.

If you are not sure of the spring's health and can't tell by feel, lay it down next to a new one and see if it is shorter or bent more.

Springs that apply to function:
Extractor springs: In .45 an overly tight extractor will impede cycling. Too light and it can jump off the rim of the brass under fire. While it is true that the extractor does not extract while firing (the brass pushes the slide back), the extractor's resistance directs the casing's clearing of the ejection port while ejecting. Beretta shaped the breech face in a curvature that will direct the brass in case of extractor breakage or failure. The PX4 is designed to work with a broken or missing extractor. I go by "feel" of the spring's tension.

Springs that apply to trigger pull:
Hammer spring: I try to make it last forever. Light primer hits will indicate a need to replace.
Trigger spring: The lighter the better... except... the trigger spring needs to briskly return the trigger forward fast enough for rapid fire.
Firing pin spring: The hammer strike must overcome it. I clean in the firing pin channel every 5,000 rounds and test firing pin fluidity.
Sear spring: This must be pushed forward by the trigger bar. It should last a long time. Indications of problems- failing to catch the hammer when cocking.

Pins: Drift pins should be permanent (hammer spring cap pin, sear pivot pin)
The hammer frame pin can get its slot for the retention spring worn. Indications are failure to hold even a new spring.
Decocker/safety lever pin: Every 3 times it goes in and out, I replace it. If too loose it can drift and stop lever movement. The older the levers, the more frequent the pin change.
Extractor pin: I try to go 3 or 4 times with it. The extractor smooths a path on it that can assist free movement.
The trigger pivot pin can look worn, but run a toothpick over it to verify that it is only the finish that is worn.

If anyone wants clarity or picture explanations of these details, let me know.

23117

[Doc_Glock]

Wow dude, you are an incredible resource.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Wow dude, you are an incredible resource.

I appreciate the exaggeration! I look forward to any questions or more in depth study of what any and all parts on a PX4 do and how they interact with each other.

[Hambo]

Wow dude, you are an incredible resource.

No shit. It might be time to try a PX4.

[TheNewbie]

How was the recoil of the PX4 vs other .45s?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

How was the recoil of the PX4 vs other .45s?

Compared to 1911s that I have shot or owned and 5 years with Ruger P345s, the PX4 Storm 45 is a pleasure to shoot. Recoil is not sharp, but pushes back like a 45. However, the grip shape and straight line barrel combined with the recoil spring and buffer system make it smooth and pleasant to shoot.
Compared to a 9mm, or a 40, it drives back harder and has more wear on your hand after a few hundred rounds than a 40 would, and makes shooting a 9mm akin to taking a nap.

But, compared to other forty-fives it is so much better, more pleasant and smoother to shoot.

I have also fired 45 XDMs and did not find them to be as pleasant as the PX4 Storm.

If you try to imagine what your full-sized PX4 would feel like pushing out a 230 grain slug, be aware that the 45 PX4 is wider, beefier and a little bigger. The small backstrap on a 45 is the same hand feel as the large backstrap on a 40 or 9.
The HSTs +P are not as pleasant to shoot in 45.

[JTQ]

How was the recoil of the PX4 vs other .45s?
The late Stephen A. Camp reviewed the PX4 .45 in one of the later reviews before he passed away. He shot a lot of 1911's and P220's.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/shooting_the_45-caliber%20beretta%20PX4.htm


For me, the 45-caliber PX4 “feels” more comfortable in the hand than the Glock 21, Springfield Armory XD, SIG-SAUER P220 or FNP 45. I admit that this is entirely subjective and does not hold true for all shooters. The PX4 also seems smaller “in person” than its “paper dimensions” suggest. I believe that this service pistol could be carried concealed without undue effort.

[TheNewbie]

Thank you both for the replies!

What technique do you all use for decocking the PX4? On other DA/SA I use my off hand thumb. Is this effective on the PX4?

The one I messed with at the store was an F type so I couldn't get a good feel of using the docker as I do on other guns.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The late Stephen A. Camp reviewed the PX4 .45 in one of the later reviews before he passed away. He shot a lot of 1911's and P220's.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/shooting_the_45-caliber%20beretta%20PX4.htm

I find that carrying the 45 PX4 concealed is easy. It feels slightly lighter than the 40, or less dense. The Compact or SubCompact don't feel advantageous to me because the magazine weight compared to the leverage of the barrel length give a different feel.
However, one does get used to what they do a lot.
My wife likes her SubCompact for concealment.

[beenalongtime]

Thank you both for the replies!

What technique do you all use for decocking the PX4? On other DA/SA I use my off hand thumb. Is this effective on the PX4?

The one I messed with at the store was an F type so I couldn't get a good feel of using the docker as I do on other guns.

That will depend on several things, rating from hand size of an individual, to which decockers one has on the gun. (not the same with the 92 style to either one of the other levers for me)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Thank you both for the replies!

What technique do you all use for decocking the PX4? On other DA/SA I use my off hand thumb. Is this effective on the PX4?

The one I messed with at the store was an F type so I couldn't get a good feel of using the docker as I do on other guns.

TheNewbie, When a PX4 is a type F the left lever's shaft has a detent ball and spring that drag and fall into a hole in the slide. This causes resistance. The point being that when a Storm is converted to type G (decocker only, no safety) that ball & spring are removed. Therefore the levers move a lot more easily!

The standard (stock) levers, converted to type G are easy, but slightly forward where they stick out. If your hand is smaller, you have to reach. Larger and it's right there.
Model 92 style levers, converted to type G are as easy as you get! They have good surface to contact anywhere.
The Low Profile (Stealth) levers are more difficult to operate. The smaller the lever the less "leverage".

My wife has used all 3 on her modified PX4 Compact and settled on the M-92 levers. She just reaches up with the shooting thumb (we do everything righty and lefty). With standard levers she has to reach and think about it more. With the Low Profile levers she uses 2 fingers over the top with the non shooting hand to do both levers at once.

My shooting partner has Low Profile on his modified .45 SD and it took practice and his tongue hanging out for a little, but he just reaches up and thumbs them down.

Using your off hand thumb can work. We don't train with that, because we want each hand independently capable of all fighting functions if the other is injured.

[HCM]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads ?

What type or what load ?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads ?

What type or what load ?

HCM, In .45 I use Winchester white box, 230 grn FMJ for target work and Federal Premium HST 230 grn +P for defense. I almost went to American Eagle, because Federal primers are easier to ignite and Winchesters are inconsistently tough, but they (American Eagle) are copper dipped, not jacketed. Leading and fouling are possible.

I used to reload, for many years, back in the revolver days, but currently the cost of components is even more than Wal-Mart prices for cartridges.

[Screwball]

If you try to imagine what your full-sized PX4 would feel like pushing out a 230 grain slug, be aware that the 45 PX4 is wider, beefier and a little bigger.

Actually, the only dimension the .45 differs is front/back of the grip... considering 9mm/.40 is shorter. The .45 slide will also fit on a 9mm/.40 frame (fits on the rails), but will not move backwards.

I will add that the .45 PX4 is very easy to shoot, similar to the 9mm or .40 version. Only issue for me was that it was only available in full size, with 9 or 10 round magazines (when I had mine, I traded the 10 rounder and standardized on the 9 rounders). If they did a Compact, I’d have been more interested... so, I got rid of it when I got my Glock 30S. Smaller gun, better magazine options, and at the time I made the move... more support than the PX4 line.

The big thing with the .45 PX4 was the design of the magazine/frame. Beretta didn’t go overboard with it, and it feels closer to the 9mm/.40 than a Glock 21 verses 17/22. If you look at Glock’s design history of their .45 pistols, you’ll notice that if they could do it all over again, the 21 would likely have a 9/10 round capacity instead of 13. They went from the standard 21, tried the 36, went with the SF frame... then did the .45 GAP to get back into the 9mm/.40 size (utter failure for them). If they weren’t as heavily invested in that 13 round magazine, I’m sure you’d see a major redesign.

When it comes down to it, the same reason I liked the .45 PX4 (comfortable grip) was the opposite reason I went with the 30S (better magazine options). I would like to see smaller versions of it, whether a Compact or a S/C... but would like to see them keep the rotating barrel (even a longer slide/shorter frame combination). But I’d love to see them take the APX and offer it in .45, with a magazine that utilizes the PX4 magazine body design.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Actually, the only dimension the .45 differs is front/back of the grip... considering 9mm/.40 is shorter. The .45 slide will also fit on a 9mm/.40 frame (fits on the rails), but will not move backwards.

I will add that the .45 PX4 is very easy to shoot, similar to the 9mm or .40 version. Only issue for me was that it was only available in full size, with 9 or 10 round magazines (when I had mine, I traded the 10 rounder and standardized on the 9 rounders). If they did a Compact, I’d have been more interested... so, I got rid of it when I got my Glock 30S. Smaller gun, better magazine options, and at the time I made the move... more support than the PX4 line.

The big thing with the .45 PX4 was the design of the magazine/frame. Beretta didn’t go overboard with it, and it feels closer to the 9mm/.40 than a Glock 21 verses 17/22. If you look at Glock’s design history of their .45 pistols, you’ll notice that if they could do it all over again, the 21 would likely have a 9/10 round capacity instead of 13. They went from the standard 21, tried the 36, went with the SF frame... then did the .45 GAP to get back into the 9mm/.40 size (utter failure for them). If they weren’t as heavily invested in that 13 round magazine, I’m sure you’d see a major redesign.

When it comes down to it, the same reason I liked the .45 PX4 (comfortable grip) was the opposite reason I went with the 30S (better magazine options). I would like to see smaller versions of it, whether a Compact or a S/C... but would like to see them keep the rotating barrel (even a longer slide/shorter frame combination). But I’d love to see them take the APX and offer it in .45, with a magazine that utilizes the PX4 magazine body design.

Thanks for the input! I will however, need to disagree and offer evidences for everyone's consideration. I appreciate your patience.

I have in front of me a full-sized .40 and a couple of .45s. The .40 is decisively thinner and the barrel is .10" shorter. Evidences anyone can check? Yes.
The cam block for the .45 (available at Brownells) is much wider than the 9’s or .40’s. It won't fit in there.
Next I call to witness ( :) ) Ernest Langdon, who offered the .45 SD trigger bar in his Trigger Job in a Bag. Folks putting it in had trouble and it did not work. He acknowledged that the .45 part would not work outside of a .45.
Next, I have cataloged photos of trigger bars and parts for size (and shape) comparison.
Next, I have Beretta Customer Service (Eric- been there for many years) saying that the .45 is designed with more tolerance room because of more carbons.
When I ordered a spare extractor for my .45 (just in case), it is a different, larger part than the full size 9s or .40s

I could go, but don't want to come off as rude (I am not, I am enjoying your opinions and input), so I conclude with your statement, "The .45 slide will also fit on a 9mm/.40 frame (fits on the rails), but will not move backwards." If it will not move backwards, they are not the same size.

There are many parts that are common to the .45, full size 9s & .40s & Compact. There are parts in common with the SubCompact. They are not all the same size.


As to the magazines, they are made by Mechanica Del Sarco and are not double stack (technically), but "staggered". & Yes, I fully agree that the thinner grip is great!

Please don't mistake my zeal or attention to detail for hostility. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Screwball]

Thanks for the input! I will however, need to disagree and offer evidences for everyone's consideration. I appreciate your patience.

I have in front of me a full-sized .40 and a couple of .45s. The .40 is decisively thinner and the barrel is .10" shorter. Evidences anyone can check? Yes.
The cam block for the .45 (available at Brownells) is much wider than the 9’s or .40’s. It won't fit in there.
Next I call to witness ( [emoji4] ) Ernest Langdon, who offered the .45 SD trigger bar in his Trigger Job in a Bag. Folks putting it in had trouble and it did not work. He acknowledged that the .45 part would not work outside of a .45.
Next, I have cataloged photos of trigger bars and parts for size (and shape) comparison.
Next, I have Beretta Customer Service (Eric- been there for many years) saying that the .45 is designed with more tolerance room because of more carbons.
When I ordered a spare extractor for my .45 (just in case), it is a different, larger part than the full size 9s or .40s

I could go, but don't want to come off as rude (I am not, I am enjoying your opinions and input), so I conclude with your statement, "The .45 slide will also fit on a 9mm/.40 frame (fits on the rails), but will not move backwards." If it will not move backwards, they are not the same size.

There are many parts that are common to the .45, full size 9s & .40s & Compact. There are parts in common with the SubCompact. They are not all the same size.


As to the magazines, they are made by Mechanica Del Sarco and are not double stack (technically), but "staggered". & Yes, I fully agree that the thinner grip is great!

Please don't mistake my zeal or attention to detail for hostility. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Huh?

Think you took my post a little out of context. I was specifically speaking on your point about the .45 being wider. Didn’t imply that the frames/designs are identical other than width. And considering that most of my post was about magazine stacking/thickness of the grip... I figured it would be clear enough. Sorry if it was not.

Years ago, a member on BerettaForum was asking about converting his .45 with a .40 slide available on GunBroker. I specifically tried the slides on both guns to confirm it wouldn’t work for him. One combination... forget which... would allow the block to lock on the takedown lever, but still, the slide stopped from moving backwards. If the .45 was dimensionally wider, one slide wouldn’t have fit on the other frame, and one would be loose. The fact that the backstraps and magazine release parts being standard for all three calibers reinforces that the frames are similar in that dimension.

Are the barrels, extractors, blocks, and other parts effected by caliber sizes the same? No, never implied it. A .45 slide has to move farther back to eject and chamber the longer .45 compared to a 9mm slide ejecting/chambering a 9mm. The hammer on a .45 needs to be further back for a similar reason, so yes, the trigger arm needs to be longer on the .45. The actual hole in the frame for the magazine has to be longer (not wider) because the .45 magazine is longer (front to back) than a 9mm magazine. I also wouldn’t think I’d be that dense to say they are completely identical, but the slide would not move rearward. Width is shown that the slides can get on the rails between calibers... but obviously the ejector and other caliber specific parts/clearances are keeping the slides from cycling.

To also add, MDS has been making Beretta magazines for years... pretty much, they are identical to PB magazines. It is a factory magazine, just made in a different location than Beretta. MDS is actually owned by Beretta. With the 92/96, the MDS magazines were just a few dollars cheaper than PB magazines. Unsure how they are priced currently, or if they have specific models being made at MDS/PB... but MDS is Beretta.

To be clear, I’ve been out of the .45 PX4 for years... and no regret for it. It is a good firearm, but there are better options for me out there. With that being said, I’m not saying I’m better than you or know more about them. Didn’t have a round count close to yours on my .45 when I traded it... but I did own it and a 9mm at the same time for a few years. Both were ran in the same holsters, both were shot side by side, and even once sat there for a couple seconds trying to load a .45 magazine into a 9mm pistol. Sorry, but just giving an additional viewpoint... which pretty much supports yours. Only point I made was regarding width, which isn’t really calling you out... just expanding.

[MSparks909]

I wonder how the PX4 (SD) .45 would compare to my HK45...hmmmm. Might have to pick one up to see.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Huh?

Think you took my post a little out of context. I was specifically speaking on your point about the .45 being wider. Didn’t imply that the frames/designs are identical other than width. And considering that most of my post was about magazine stacking/thickness of the grip... I figured it would be clear enough. Sorry if it was not.

Years ago, a member on BerettaForum was asking about converting his .45 with a .40 slide available on GunBroker. I specifically tried the slides on both guns to confirm it wouldn’t work for him. One combination... forget which... would allow the block to lock on the takedown lever, but still, the slide stopped from moving backwards. If the .45 was dimensionally wider, one slide wouldn’t have fit on the other frame, and one would be loose. The fact that the backstraps and magazine release parts being standard for all three calibers reinforces that the frames are similar in that dimension.

Are the barrels, extractors, blocks, and other parts effected by caliber sizes the same? No, never implied it. A .45 slide has to move farther back to eject and chamber the longer .45 compared to a 9mm slide ejecting/chambering a 9mm. The hammer on a .45 needs to be further back for a similar reason, so yes, the trigger arm needs to be longer on the .45. The actual hole in the frame for the magazine has to be longer (not wider) because the .45 magazine is longer (front to back) than a 9mm magazine. I also wouldn’t think I’d be that dense to say they are completely identical, but the slide would not move rearward. Width is shown that the slides can get on the rails between calibers... but obviously the ejector and other caliber specific parts/clearances are keeping the slides from cycling.

To also add, MDS has been making Beretta magazines for years... pretty much, they are identical to PB magazines. It is a factory magazine, just made in a different location than Beretta. MDS is actually owned by Beretta. With the 92/96, the MDS magazines were just a few dollars cheaper than PB magazines. Unsure how they are priced currently, or if they have specific models being made at MDS/PB... but MDS is Beretta.

To be clear, I’ve been out of the .45 PX4 for years... and no regret for it. It is a good firearm, but there are better options for me out there. With that being said, I’m not saying I’m better than you or know more about them. Didn’t have a round count close to yours on my .45 when I traded it... but I did own it and a 9mm at the same time for a few years. Both were ran in the same holsters, both were shot side by side, and even once sat there for a couple seconds trying to load a .45 magazine into a 9mm pistol. Sorry, but just giving an additional viewpoint... which pretty much supports yours. Only point I made was regarding width, which isn’t really calling you out... just expanding.

You have done your homework! I count you as a valuable contributor to any threads I participate in. Your experiences with holsters and things has been different from mine.

I think we can leave as- this has been an awesome discussion on the "size" issue and challenging us to think together! Now we will just let anyone interested enough find a full sized and a .45 and see how they feel for themselves.

Again, no offense taken, hopefully none given.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I wonder how the PX4 (SD) .45 would compare to my HK45...hmmmm. Might have to pick one up to see.

Unless you know someone with one... it will be hard to pick up an SD for trying (unless you find a used one). When they came out we could not see or touch one until my partner bought one.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I wonder how the PX4 (SD) .45 would compare to my HK45...hmmmm. Might have to pick one up to see.

My partner's .45 SD for your viewing:

When new-

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With Low Profile levers-

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With Cerakote- (current condition)

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[Bigghoss]

I would like to get a Special Duty with my tax return but since I'm already planning on a Mod 5 I think I'll settle for one of the Type C .45's from Classic Firearms for $350.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I would like to get a Special Duty with my tax return but since I'm already planning on a Mod 5 I think I'll settle for one of the Type C .45's from Classic Firearms for $350.

Everyone needs a .45!

[MSparks909]

PX4 Storm Tracker...do you have a PX4 CC? If not I think you should add one to your stable.

[Bigghoss]

Everyone needs a .45!

I many .45's, but not a PX4 in .45. I'll get an SD eventually but it's more of a fun gun.

[beenalongtime]

Everyone needs a .45!

I would love to shoot one. The last time I fired a .45, it was a WWII model that the range rented, and the sights were damaged (why it was at the range). Very hard to do, and a lot of kick for hitting no where near the sights said (how I found out about the sights being off). The next one I will probably buy though will be a CZ clone in 10mm. I enjoyed that caliber when I started shooting and would like to try one again.

[TheNewbie]

What kind of holster do you use for the PX4? For duty use I prefer the ALS and it's nice to know you can get an ALS holster for the PX4.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

PX4 Storm Tracker...do you have a PX4 CC? If not I think you should add one to your stable.

MSparks909, I do not have a Compact Carry, though I would like to. The reason I don't has nothing to do with lack of respect for what an accomplishment it was to develop it.

My wife has a PX4 Storm Compact. She shoots with me at least once per week. I make her do all of her own cleaning and maintenance. She can 100% disassemble and reassemble the entire pistol and has chosen to customize it.
She tried the Low Profile levers and they were not user friendly, so she customized it to her liking.

D hammer spring, M-92 type G levers, with Low Profile, single sided mag catch, frame plug, med oversized mag release, Talon grips custom fitted so that they don't need to be removed to disassemble the frame, Cerakote of slide and choice parts

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The only thing lacking was a Competition "trigger" group (actually, hammer assembly). I don't want her to have a trigger pull lighter than the 6lbs, 8oz DA & 3lbs, 14oz SA that it currently has (due to following my assembly/lube recipe).

So, I feel like I already have one

[Bigghoss]

Your wife's compact looks sick. I kinda want to get one done like that now.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I would love to shoot one. The last time I fired a .45, it was a WWII model that the range rented, and the sights were damaged (why it was at the range). Very hard to do, and a lot of kick for hitting no where near the sights said (how I found out about the sights being off). The next one I will probably buy though will be a CZ clone in 10mm. I enjoyed that caliber when I started shooting and would like to try one again.

In WWII my Dad was the NCOIC on Guam. He borrowed an officer's 1911 and tried to hit a coconut on the beach. He could not. He went back to his rifle. The 1911 has been improved upon since then (I know you know this :) ). The experience of a PX4 Storm in .45 is another animal.

We practice a little precision shooting with our Storms, as well as tactical exercises. The Storms are accurate.

These are sample groups I shot, free hand, standing tactical position from my Storm .45 on a 1.5" x 1.5" square @30' (size chosen because the duct tape was that size)

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Your wife's compact looks sick. I kinda want to get one done like that now.

The Cerakote color is "Smith & Wesson Red"

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

What kind of holster do you use for the PX4? For duty use I prefer the ALS and it's nice to know you can get an ALS holster for the PX4.

Now, this is where everyone will turn their noses up and stop following this thread :) I have my EDC on or with me 24/7. I carry IWB 1 o'clock. I am flexible and do a lot of moving activity. Those excuses being made.... I use a modified cheapo Uncle Mike's size 5 IWB and vary between 3 or 4 (depending upon clothes). I cover it with clear contact paper to stiffen it, so that the trigger can't be reached. It also prevents sweat or rain from getting at the hardware.

Undoing any chance of "cool" factor in 3, 2, 1
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This one is beaten up looking from the range. But, before you write me off.... There is an advantage! Lack of holster wear. This is my range gun after over 28,000 rounds (most current picture):

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Kydex scratches and tears up Bruniton in an uncomely fashion. Kydex is uncomfortable to me and I found no leather holsters that would fit well.

[Dagga Boy]

Dear mother of God......and things were going so well up until the paper wrapped Uncle Mike’s Universal....

[HopetonBrown]

That red PX4 looks like a SIRT.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Long term extractor spring degradation or protection.

The PX4 extractor has 2 springs, normally. Some .45s run better with just the one, outer spring. To prevent long term spring degradation it is preliminary to understand modern spring metallurgy.

Back in the day springs were compressed, by what is known as “stored energy”. A physics term referring to being bent to a shape and storing energy from the bend. In time, the other physics nemesis, Entropy would come along and energy would dissipate.
Nowadays springs are made with the actual molecules aligned in the expanded position. Many quality manufacturers (like Beretta, Wilson Combat) use a chrome/silicon, stainless steel. There is no stored energy. The spring wants to go back its natural position.

Ok, done with the boring stuff.

Modern day springs do not need as much “rest”. When I disassembled my EDC for cleaning, the extractor springs popped out. This indicates that since it was first assembled it spent 2 years compressed. No “spring set” or degradation.

Movement, contracting and expanding can wear down tension faster than being in a fixed position. Unloading your chamber, or worse- shooting, compress your spring way farther than holding a chambered round.

I leave my EDC loaded 24/7 for 6 days per/week and rest it on the 7th. This might seem more than necessary, but it gives a chance to check the firing pin hole & under the extractor for lint or intruding debris.

Loading and unloading frequently will not wear out a PX4 extractor’s double spring system, but I have noticed that the chambering cartridge can get scraped up or the rim chewed up. I have never experienced bullet set-back in any caliber with Federal Premium HST or Hydra-Shoks.

A cartridge that is chambered and rechambered a lot can fail to feed eventually and all of a sudden. If I feed off of the top of the magazine and replace, the top 2 rounds alternate. This can cause you to have a stoppage after the 1st shot.
To alleviate this risk, I use a separate empty mag for chambering the chamber round. When it doesn’t want to go easily anymore I retire it to my box of battered rounds to go to the range. The rounds in the magazine never get chambered, never torn up. This is as close to guaranteeing reliability of performance as humanly possible, I think.

So, what is your view on leaving a round in the chamber all the time or not?

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

That red PX4 looks like a SIRT.

Yes, I told her she better use her SubCompact to confront a bad guy. They might not think the red Compact is a real gun!

The muzzle of a Sub is more convincing than a Compact's, anyway.

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She customized her SubCompact to matching functions

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[Dave Williams]

This thread has me tempted to pick up one of the $350 PX4C .45s.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This thread has me tempted to pick up one of the $350 PX4C .45s.

They were a limited run for a contracted deal. They are not normally offered to the general public in .45. I would definitely be interested in any long term use issues with the type C Storms. I have thought of getting a type C, but have a couple of concerns with continued function that I would like to learn about. But.... for $350!!!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

To avoid punches and pins (or hammers) scarring your slide to change levers or do maintenance, a double layer of masking tape is a good "net" to work with.


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[orionz06]

What is it with springs and gun forums?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kyle Reese]

PX4 Storm Tracker,

I think that it's a wise and prudent practice to shoot your carry ammo on a regular basis. Also, my carry gun always has a round chambered, and it's always on my person or secured in a safe in that condition.

Carry ammo is relatively inexpensive and readily available at this time, so investing in a case or three of your pet carry load might be something to look into.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

PX4 Storm Tracker,

I think that it's a wise and prudent practice to shoot your carry ammo on a regular basis. Also, my carry gun always has a round chambered, and it's always on my person or secured in a safe in that condition.

Carry ammo is relatively inexpensive and readily available at this time, so investing in a case or three of your pet carry load might be something to look into.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Agreed!

I rotate carry ammo by backing it through priority mags to lower priority mags until they are moved to battered. I should have mentioned that. Thanks.

Vibration and chambering can affect anvil to ignition cohesion. Yes, they should be rotated out after a while.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have seen and heard of folks struggling with driving the decocker/safety lever pin back in when reassembling.

I insert a paper clip from the opposite side of the pin's entrance to hold things in place for me. The pin will push the paper clip out.

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[HCM]

What is it with springs and gun forums?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Le Sigh....

[LangdonTactical]

TheNewbie, When a PX4 is a type F the left lever's shaft has a detent ball and spring that drag and fall into a hole in the slide. This causes resistance. The point being that when a Storm is converted to type G (decocker only, no safety) that ball & spring are removed. Therefore the levers move a lot more easily!

The standard (stock) levers, converted to type G are easy, but slightly forward where they stick out. If your hand is smaller, you have to reach. Larger and it's right there.
Model 92 style levers, converted to type G are as easy as you get! They have good surface to contact anywhere.
The Low Profile (Stealth) levers are more difficult to operate. The smaller the lever the less "leverage".

My wife has used all 3 on her modified PX4 Compact and settled on the M-92 levers. She just reaches up with the shooting thumb (we do everything righty and lefty). With standard levers she has to reach and think about it more. With the Low Profile levers she uses 2 fingers over the top with the non shooting hand to do both levers at once.

My shooting partner has Low Profile on his modified .45 SD and it took practice and his tongue hanging out for a little, but he just reaches up and thumbs them down.

Using your off hand thumb can work. We don't train with that, because we want each hand independently capable of all fighting functions if the other is injured.

New levers are coming in the next two to three months. You will be very happy. Took a little time to get them done, but we are almost there. Way smaller than the 92 Style levers, but way easier to use than the stealth low profile levers.

[CoGT3]

New levers are coming in the next two to three months. You will be very happy. Took a little time to get them done, but we are almost there. Way smaller than the 92 Style levers, but way easier to use than the stealth low profile levers.

Pre-order on LangdonTactical.com ?[emoji6]

I’m good for 4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

With a PX4 .45 the amount of carbon and gunk that can accumulate inside the slide is a lot. This is why I choose to disassemble and detail clean the slide, internal parts and channels every 5,000 rounds.

Firing pin after 5,000 rounds

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Extractor after 5,000 rounds

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After cleaning

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The frame does not get as dirty and more spots can be reached during regular cleaning. I choose to disassemble and detail clean the frame and parts every 10,000 rounds.

Hammer group after 10,000 rounds

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After cleaning

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Be careful not to clean off the O-ring (SD part shown for clarity)

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[DAB]

if i did that, i'd be left with a pile of pistol parts and no hair......

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

if i did that, i'd be left with a pile of pistol parts and no hair......

Most gunsmiths will say the majority of their business (other than sighting in just before hunting season) comes from the firearm being too dirty and the other.... people bringing in parts that they can't get back together again! As to the hair, Beretta makes nice caps.

I probably should include a note at the end of each- Don't try this at home, or something :)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I do want to explain why I connect good cleaning to longevity

I don't think everyone will want to fuss over so much cleaning, but here's why I connect it to longevity:

There is a certain amount of space (clearance) between parts. They rub on each other and wear into or polish each other over time. If the carbons and gunk harden over time or accumulate, they cause surfaces to wear to that reduced lack of clearance. Carbons also are more abrasive. Then, some chips off or guilt or malfunctions drive you to clean and now your tolerances are widened and things become loose. Loose might seem good, but it can cause variations in movement that can ruin your rails, cam block & target groups.

Long term wear is an issue with long term use.

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[Guerrero]

Do you have a guide/instructions for a detail strip like that?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Do you have a guide/instructions for a detail strip like that?

I do not, sorry. I know that there are some YouTube videos that can help your pistol "survive" a disassembly, but in each I've found I see things that make me cringe about the parts abuse by those methods. However, the PX4 is the most tested pistol in history and could, no doubt survive user disassembly well.

May I suggest that you (or show me how to) tag Mr. Langdon to your question. He might have guides, videos or resources. He also might provide that cleaning service. If not, Beretta does provide that service (a bit costly, though).

[Guerrero]

I do not, sorry. I know that there are some YouTube videos that can help your pistol "survive" a disassembly, but in each I've found I see things that make me cringe about the parts abuse by those methods. However, the PX4 is the most tested pistol in history and could, no doubt survive user disassembly well.

May I suggest that you (or show me how to) tag Mr. Langdon to your question. He might have guides, videos or resources. He also might provide that cleaning service. If not, Beretta does provide that service (a bit costly, though).Tag like this:
LangdonTactical

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Do you have a guide/instructions for a detail strip like that?

It just seemed to me with all the people talking about replacing levers and hammer springs, or installing Competition trigger groups, that it was something someone is covering. I might have assumed incorrectly. :(

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The disassembly latch and slot is something I don't find anyone addressing.

I take it out and clean it every 20,000 rounds. If it gets too dirty and sticks your slide may jump off the front. I've never seen that happen, but we are talking high round count here.
To remove and fully clean is a little delicate, so I would recommend field stripping (take the slide off the frame) and put a little CLP oil in through the side and gently blow it through with a can of air, such as used for computer keys. Repeat until oil seems cleaner.

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[LangdonTactical]

Do you have a guide/instructions for a detail strip like that?

I could do something like that. I have not taken the time.

There are several videos that explain the hard parts, like removing the safety levers, etc. but not one that really gets into the full detail strip.

I think it would have to be broken down into several different videos if I were to post it to YouTube.

[Guerrero]

I could do something like that. I have not taken the time.

There are several videos that explain the hard parts, like removing the safety levers, etc. but not one that really gets into the full detail strip.

I think it would have to be broken down into several different videos if I were to post it to YouTube.

Well... what are you waiting for? It's not like you're doing anything else.


;)

Just kidding. Thanks for considering it.

[taroman]

The test will be going live tomorrow @12:00 PST from Beretta
SHOT Show Live! (http://beretta-usa.yourbrandlive.com/c/shot-show-live-50-000-rounds-px4-test?utm_campaign=B2C%20Campaign&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=60138351&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-82vXCM1j_jP7NookByQ4Ca8wlEkWf94_prNiTGcbuqD1QLV2O8 NiX8cOAC0OrZrPIuey_BdvBW9EP7TAPSe1WeHV8ghA&_hsmi=60138674)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Additional note about my Wireless Remote Control Power Drill

Mr. Langdon has emphasized (and correctly so) that over cleaning is bad for your firearm. I wanted to make it clear that I am not saying otherwise. I clean thoroughly and probably more that anyone needs to, but here's the thing:

Other than in the bore, I do not use any type of wire brush or devise. A wire brush will remove your finish after time and round surfaces. It can wash out firing pin holes and weaken contact surfaces that are flush, square to square.

In addition to your favorite cleaning oil or solvent you can use a nylon tooth brush. I also use patches and paper towels pushed by wooden skewers. I shape the end of the skewer to fit my targeted area. Patches are better than paper towels, as paper towels and tissue can legally have trace amounts of rock and dirt debris within their mixture. Toothpicks can get some stubborn stuff, as well. Anyone wanting more detail, please ask.

My point? I do not disagree with the caution to not over clean. Proper, safe cleaning can add to longevity and reliability. Cleaning should be wireless. :)

No...

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Yes... Notice the skewer is shaped like a flat-head screwdriver to push a patch under the extractor claw.

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

@ 30,000 rounds it's time for a full detail cleaning

This is 100% of all parts removed for cleaning and placed in groups.

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[willie]

Are there special jigs, slave pins, or other tools or implements available to assist with disassembly/assembly? Otherwise, Beretta must employ 3 handed techs. Your post is most advanced and may even could tell Beretta things about their own product. 20 plus years ago I had an interesting conversation with a Beretta tech who had an opinion about a B92 technical question, and when I suggested that he pass the opinion up the line, he told me that nobody up the line wanted his opinion. Hence, that attitude is one reason that you can't talk to anybody up the line about your experience. But that's the way that such works in giant organizations.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Update maintenance log (full log posted earlier in this thread)

Total refit, frame & slide, 100% parts removal and cleaning-
Replace trigger bar spring, hammer pin spring, decocker lever pin
& spring, extractor pin & spring, firing pin spring, slide catch
spring @30,000 1/28/18

All parts, clean

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[DAB]

Update maintenance log (full log posted earlier in this thread)

Total refit, frame & slide, 100% parts removal and cleaning-
Replace trigger bar spring, hammer pin spring, decocker lever pin
& spring, extractor pin & spring, firing pin spring, slide catch
spring @30,000 1/28/18

All parts, clean

23378

gahhh.....i could get to that point, i have punches and a hammer.....but then i'd be looking for a plastic baggie and a mailing label.

no offense, i'll just stick with field stripping and swapping hammer springs.

now....tab A, slot B.....

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Are there special jigs, slave pins, or other tools or implements available to assist with disassembly/assembly? Otherwise, Beretta must employ 3 handed techs. Your post is most advanced and may even could tell Beretta things about their own product. 20 plus years ago I had an interesting conversation with a Beretta tech who had an opinion about a B92 technical question, and when I suggested that he pass the opinion up the line, he told me that nobody up the line wanted his opinion. Hence, that attitude is one reason that you can't talk to anybody up the line about your experience. But that's the way that such works in giant organizations.


Willie, I understand your experience with Beretta! This is clearly compartmental thinking in the corporation. Customer Service does not get to know what the Gunsmiths know, Gunsmiths don't know what R&D knows, etc..

Special tools? Nothing that one can't get at Brownells. I'm sure there are advanced tools that one could be more expedient with. I use these.

Tools?

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3rd hand? poor boy method

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Paper clips and plastic can hold stuff, too

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As to better tools or advanced tools, Mr. Langdon would be more qualified to give a more complete answer.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The proof is in the pudding

After the full detail disassembly, cleaning & reassembly I took it to the range today to get it dirty. 300 rounds and everything worked perfectly. Next up... 40,000

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[DAB]

if that was a Chevy, you'd have 4 left over parts..... :)

[ralph]

if that was a Chevy, you'd have 4 left over parts..... :)

4 left over parts and it still would'nt run right...

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

A suggestion for Talon Grip users-


If you are going to use Talon grips on your PX4 Storm and might want to do maintenance one day, you can set them up like this:


If you first cut out holes for the hammer assembly pin and hammer/frame pin, then separate the backstrap’s edges, you won’t have to replace your Talon grips every time you disassemble.



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[beenalongtime]

OR buy a different brand that is already set up this way. I bought a different brand, for less money, that was this way and have it on multiple PX4's. I also didn't buy the full wrap ones, as I think the back strap has decent texture and I like to be able to swap if it is someone else's gun/preference.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

OR buy a different brand that is already set up this way. I bought a different brand, for less money, that was this way and have it on multiple PX4's. I also didn't buy the full wrap ones, as I think the back strap has decent texture and I like to be able to swap if it is someone else's gun/preference.

Cool. What is that different brand? How well do they hold up?

[beenalongtime]

Cool. What is that different brand? How well do they hold up?

As far as I can tell, they should hold up just as well as the Talon's. (aka I don't have 50K rounds test gun/bullets) I first ordered Talon's (first brand/name I was exposed to, heard recommended) and ordered them for my subcompact PX4. They were cut wrong (circle didn't line up with the Beretta logo, looked like they slipped in the cutter while being made) and it bothered me. Several recommended just DIYing it with grip/ladder tape, but I wasn't happy with my attempt, and black was OOS at my local store. I looked over several brands, contrasting and comparing and settled on Grip-on's. They are easier found on Ebay then on Amazon, but are on both and he appears to be a small enough business that his own website doesn't make sense. They seemed comparable to the Talon's and he has some choices (full wrap that goes around the backstrap, or partial/my preference, which leaves the backstrap, removable).
There was at least one other brand I looked at, which left the pins open, however they didn't have as much side coverage as either the Talon's or Grip-on's. I will let others do their own research, as preferences are personal, but did think it smart to say, hey, there are options.
I nagged him for a while so he produced the compact ones, which I have bought the four of.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

As far as I can tell, they should hold up just as well as the Talon's. (aka I don't have 50K rounds test gun/bullets) I first ordered Talon's (first brand/name I was exposed to, heard recommended) and ordered them for my subcompact PX4. They were cut wrong (circle didn't line up with the Beretta logo, looked like they slipped in the cutter while being made) and it bothered me. Several recommended just DIYing it with grip/ladder tape, but I wasn't happy with my attempt, and black was OOS at my local store. I looked over several brands, contrasting and comparing and settled on Grip-on's. They are easier found on Ebay then on Amazon, but are on both and he appears to be a small enough business that his own website doesn't make sense. They seemed comparable to the Talon's and he has some choices (full wrap that goes around the backstrap, or partial/my preference, which leaves the backstrap, removable).
There was at least one other brand I looked at, which left the pins open, however they didn't have as much side coverage as either the Talon's or Grip-on's. I will let others do their own research, as preferences are personal, but did think it smart to say, hey, there are options.
I nagged him for a while so he produced the compact ones, which I have bought the four of.

That is a very good point, that there can be other options. We also had trouble in fitting the Talon grips to our SubCompact.
You definitely did your homework there!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I recommended cleaning inside the slide of the PX4 Storm .45 every 5,000 rounds, but...

I would also note that the 9mms are not exempt from this.


A Compact's parts dirty-

23615
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Now clean

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23618[/ATTACH

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The page loaded differently than intended above. The last picture is of the parts from a SubCompact.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another characteristic of the .45 makes it less advantageous to have fancy sights.


I run stock white 3 dot sights on all of our PX4s. I do this so that we have unity and familiarity if any of us needs to pick up any Storm for defensive use in a hurry. While it is true that I could get Ameriglo , Trijicon or fancy sights on all of them... The .45 mostly negates that.

After a few magazines the front sight is carbon-gray no matter if it was red, orange or white underneath. The .45 SD's extra 1/2" of barrel seems to keep it from this build up.

I usually take a small piece of damp paper towel and clean the front dot every 36-72 rounds, when possible. .40s can go 200 rounds without needing a wiping, but .45s cover the muzzle quickly.

[DAB]

bullseye powder? it's known for being very dirty.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

bullseye powder? it's known for being very dirty.

DAB, Back in the day... when I used to hand load all my own fodder I used Bullseye, Blue Dot (for fast burning) and 2400 for slow burning. However, in recent years the cost and availability of components made it easier and cheaper to use Winchester white box target loads. I cannot guess what the powder would be.

Since the .45 normally caters to the 1911 it might be set at a burn rate for a 5" barrel. Night fire does not indicate much burning in front of the muzzle (like a .357 or .44 magnum). Your idea is a good one, but not something that I am in a position to take advantage of currently.

Much appreciated, though.

[DAB]

generally speaking, the cheaper the ammo, the dirtier the powder.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

generally speaking, the cheaper the ammo, the dirtier the powder.

That's right! You pay peanuts, you get monkeys...

I use Federal Premium HSTs for all defense ammo in all 3 calibers (9mm, 10mm-> .40, 11.45mm) (.355, .40, .451) :cool:


At 300 rounds per shooting session, twice per week, cost must be a factor (even with my sponsor)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Update: Equipment failure

This thread was about getting the PX4 Storm .45 to 30,000. I did. However, at 31,174 rounds the barrel cracked. It continued to fire for hundreds of rounds before the lack of compression caused ejection problems.

I called Beretta and am sending it to them for a new barrel. Turn over time should be short. I'll put some miles on my .40 meanwhile.

[MSparks909]

Update: Equipment failure

This thread was about getting the PX4 Storm .45 to 30,000. I did. However, at 31,174 rounds the barrel cracked. It continued to fire for hundreds of rounds before the lack of compression caused ejection problems.

I called Beretta and am sending it to them for a new barrel. Turn over time should be short. I'll put some miles on my .40 meanwhile.

Have any pics?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Have any pics?

Yes, I do! I had to do a bit more trimming to get the picture on. That's why I delayed.


23759

[MSparks909]

Yes, I do! I had to do a bit more trimming to get the picture on. That's why I delayed.


23759

Wow. That’s a serious crack!

[Nephrology]

Was the pistol able to un-lock to clear it?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Wow. That’s a serious crack!

There had been a small build up of carbon on top of my cam (of the cam block) each time for a few thousand rounds. This was unusual. I also noticed far more carbon building up on the barrel and in the slide. Then, that day it started spitting a little. Next, it started to fail to eject well. I opened it up on the loading table and....

It is impressive that it did not blow up nor damage the slide.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Was the pistol able to un-lock to clear it?

Yes at first, but not ultimately. I'll explain.
In the past, when loading up 4 magazines in a hurry a round that came from the factory with the case mouth pinched by the loading presses can get past you. That will get stuck in the chamber. I keep a 6" rod of fiberglass in all caliber sizes in my range bag. It gets so stuck that you have to put the rod down the bore from the muzzle (safely) and whack it down on a piece of wood pointed downrange to push it out without damaging the pistol.

Well, that's what I had to do to get the last spent casing out. I could see the casing deformed by the crack. That is when I decided to cease any usage and found the crack in the barrel.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Update: Equipment repair


Beretta fitted my PX4 .45 range pistol with a new barrel. The slide checked out Ok, as did the cam block. With the size of the split and the amount of rounds put through before discovering the split.... it is impressive that nothing (including my hands) was damaged.

It seems that the split was closed, for a while, when not under pressure. Eventually, it just opened up more.

They did not see this as a warranty repair.

It should be on the range, headed for 40,000 this weekend.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Update: New barrel

The finish on the new barrel is excellent... even, smooth and dark. It is headed for the range Saturday.


24157

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Front end job

Since I have a new barrel, I decided to renew the front end and not wait until old parts are worn by new ones or new parts mated to old ones that would be replaced. I installed a new cam block (from an SD) and a new disassembly latch & spring.

24169

[LangdonTactical]

Front end job

Since I have a new barrel, I decided to renew the front end and not wait until old parts are worn by new ones or new parts mated to old ones that would be replaced. I installed a new cam block (from an SD) and a new disassembly latch & spring.

24169

Smart! Good idea to do that!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Carbon Footprint

After installing the new parts I took my PX4 .45 for a spin. 368 rounds today (8 were +P HSTs) with perfect function and reliability. Having shot my .40 in its absence, I forgot about the benefit of an aged pistol. The slide action is as smooth as glass because of self polishing through use.

When it was time to clean it, I noticed a lot less carbon on the outside of the barrel, in the slide and on the block. As I previous wrote, it was getting much dirtier than before for thousands of rounds (hundreds, the day it cracked open).
My first consideration was to fault the ammo. But, I used the same ammo from the same lot today.

Take home lesson: If there appears something different, more dirtiness, carbon, copper or debris... check the integrity of all parts and connections before dismissing it as ammo related.

Again, I am most fortunate that firing with a cracked barrel for thousands of rounds did not damage anything else.

Now I have learned to take note of the carbon footprint variations.

[boing]

They did not see this as a warranty repair.

Did they give a reason why not?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Did they give a reason why not?

boing, They said that it was just past the 3 year old point, at which they would not warranty. I do not agree that using factory target loads in a production pistol should split the barrel @31,174 rounds. It would be a metallurgical defect of some kind and the manufacturer's responsibility. They gave no other reason.

[fly out]

I do not agree that using factory target loads in a production pistol should split the barrel @31,174 rounds.

You mentioned that you shoot 230gr +P. Do you happen to know how many +P rounds that barrel saw?

I chalk it up to overcleaning. ;)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

You mentioned that you shoot 230gr +P. Do you happen to know how many +P rounds that barrel saw?

I chalk it up to overcleaning. ;)

Perhaps over cleaning played a little role, or maybe it actually helped. Sometimes in cleaning, the barrel gets a little warm with scrubbing (but not at the chamber, where it ruptured) :) We would use 28 gauge brushes for the chamber, occasionally.

I would only shoot +Ps the first day on a new slide rebound spring. I take battered chamber rounds and fire them off. I usually fire 8-10 rounds, in this case. 6 slide rebound spring changes would make it approximately 48-60 total +Ps, as my best approximation. Definitely, less than 100, months apart in timing.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Signs of long term wear

This is a picture of the rectangular cam block well of my PX4 .45. The left pointer shows where the polymer has worn off and the steel framing is showing. The sides of the well have been down to the metal for a long time.
The left pointer shows where the rail is getting worn (right under the grease). The right, lower pointer shows where it wore through and the polymer cushion disappeared. I’ve heard of other Storms losing their polymer here at a younger age.


24201



This area is where the barrel rotates when the slide goes forward. The barrel lug does not directly ride on these contact points, but instead pulls away as it rotates forward. The wear comes when the pistol is fired and vibration, combined with slight lateral shaking of the barrel contacts the polymer buffering.

Prognosis? It should not affect anything, as the gap is smaller than the lug’s dimensions and the remaining polymer will still cushion. If not, the barrel and rails might show wear over time to the finish. If, through long term exposure, the rails are worn from the barrel’s contact, it could weaken the rails and cause a safety issue or terminate the pistol’s usability.

Time will tell. I’ll keep close tabs on it. Long duration usage of the PX4 .45 is still uncharted territory, as far as I can find.

Back when I was doing motocross, I went woods riding with a guy who was very fast (way out of my league). He ran around the course very fast! When he got back I pointed out that he lost a foot peg and couple of other pieces. He said, “When you go fast enough, long enough, the stuff you don’t need just falls off.”

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

To be on the safe side...

I sent multiple pictures from different angles of the cam block well (pictured above) to Beretta. They were examined by the Head Gunsmith, Parts Manager & Product Manager and whatever people they chose to share them with. They concluded that there was nothing to be concerned about and nothing that would impede function or safety.

I put 310 rounds through it today without any problems. Brought it home, cleaned and inspected... no issues and no increase in polymer decay.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Perhaps this is not actually normal wear...

I was looking through my photo journal of all things done to my PX4s. I found a picture of this area @30,000 rounds. It looks like new (though dirty in the picture). This suggests that some of the polymer missing in the previous picture might have been blown off by the ruptured barrel. If so, Beretta did a safety inspection and did not find an issue.

If this was caused by the cracked barrel leaking pressure at the cam block well, then this would not continue to decay. It would be damage from a ruptured barrel and not wear.

This is that area @30,000

24371


Conclusion: If this is correct that the well remained in good shape for 30,000 rounds, it did not all of a sudden give up @31,174. It was the barrel rupture that caused it. If this is correct, it should indicate that the PX4 45 should last as long as any other Storm, unless there is an incident like this.

It did survive this incident and I'm @32,200 rounds currently with good function and tight tolerances as normal. It might be chalked up to a battle scar from a barrel rupture. If that is the case, it is a good report to take thousands of rounds with a ruptured barrel, lose some skin, but keep on working.

[medmo]

As far as I can tell, they should hold up just as well as the Talon's. (aka I don't have 50K rounds test gun/bullets) I first ordered Talon's (first brand/name I was exposed to, heard recommended) and ordered them for my subcompact PX4. They were cut wrong (circle didn't line up with the Beretta logo, looked like they slipped in the cutter while being made) and it bothered me. Several recommended just DIYing it with grip/ladder tape, but I wasn't happy with my attempt, and black was OOS at my local store. I looked over several brands, contrasting and comparing and settled on Grip-on's. They are easier found on Ebay then on Amazon, but are on both and he appears to be a small enough business that his own website doesn't make sense. They seemed comparable to the Talon's and he has some choices (full wrap that goes around the backstrap, or partial/my preference, which leaves the backstrap, removable).
There was at least one other brand I looked at, which left the pins open, however they didn't have as much side coverage as either the Talon's or Grip-on's. I will let others do their own research, as preferences are personal, but did think it smart to say, hey, there are options.
I nagged him for a while so he produced the compact ones, which I have bought the four of.

I had the same experience with the Talon’s on a Sub Compact. I had to trim to fit and fill in the Beretta logo on the right side of the grip’s off center hole with another piece I cut out. Thought my grip was a one off error also but I guess not.

24383

24382

[Antonius]

Ignore

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Cleaning the trigger bar/frame to avoid drag

In .45 the area around the trigger bar gets very dirty, quickly. If you are not disassembling your frame for cleaning, or only disassembling every 10,000 rounds like I do, build up can cause drag and increase trigger pull weight.

I take a 2 fold piece of paper and clean between the frame and the trigger bar. It usually needs 3 or 4 scrubbings each week (about 600-700 rounds).
If you raise the firing pin block plunger lever (as pictured) the trigger will be released to move freely back and forth without moving the hammer. I insert and then scrub all the way up past the well wall and back to the spring, moving the trigger back and forth as I clean. You can then (if you want) put a little oil on the next paper and oil this area.

New Bruniton is fairly slick against polymer. Older Bruniton gets rougher when down to the parkerizing level. Then it gets slick again when it gets older and polished.


It may sound excessive, but I have measured as much as a 12 oz. difference in DA trigger pull when very dirty there or on the hammer pivot pin.


24444

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Spring cleaning! When Spring is in the air... is a bad thing...


When cleaning inside your slide you have a few small coil springs. To thoroughly clean them inside and out can be delicate and risk dropping or having trouble getting between the coils and in the core.

You could place them on a pipe cleaner, get your favorite cleaning solution and a toothbrush and clean. Next, take an air compressor (or can of computer keyboard air) and dry them on the spot. Slide them along to the next clean spot on the pipe cleaner and air them again. In half a minute, vóilá... Clean and dry, inside and out.


24521

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The effect of your hammer spring on long duration usage of your pistol-


There is a Gunsmithing technique called the Push-off. It should be unnecessary to use on quality Berettas, but I’ve needed to use it on Rugers and new trigger/hammer fittings.
This technique has you cock the hammer (over an empty chamber or snap cap) and push on the back of the hammer (firmly, but not too much) and then pull the trigger under that pressure. It is supposed to remove burrs if done a couple of times. Too much and it is detrimental. I am certainly not recommending anyone try this.

There are many competitive shooters with 1911s that put in lighter hammer springs to save from equipment wear, firing pin, firing pin channel wear and keep their sear engagement from decaying.

The PX4 Storm is designed with an international demographic in mind. In some countries ammo is of less quality than others, some primers are harder to ignite, etc.. The PX4 is designed to fire under water and full of mud. So, the hammer spring is way overpowered for 99% of the average person’s use where good ammo is available.

The pressure of the hammer spring will increase wear on internal parts that it shares that energy with. Leaving the stock spring in can effect longevity of the parts, increase shock and vibration, especially if you dry fire.

Lighter spring options that are reliable are available. The Beretta D spring and some very good options from LangdonTactical are some that have good reputations. Though, I would recommend changing the D spring around 20,000 rounds.

A lighter spring will actually add to the longevity of the pistol... and it’s quite inexpensive.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

PX4 .45 SD hits 20,000 rounds

Odometers clicking along...


In two days my PX4 .45 will hit 33,000 rounds, my wife’s PX4 Compact 9 will hit 11,000. We just did a slide disassembly and detail cleaning on the Compact. It was dirty.


The real news that makes this worthy to add to this thread about the PX4 .45 long term usage is that my shooting partner’s PX4 .45 SD will hit 20,000 on that day also. We will do a 100% disassembly of slide and frame after shooting and he will take the parts home to detail clean before the weekend. If he cannot get it all clean enough and back over here for assembly, he’ll have to shoot his PX4 full size .40 over the weekend, or worse, his Ruger P345 (this should motivate him).


The PX4 SD has performed flawlessly (after an extractor adjustment, previously mentioned in this thread).
While I use blue magazines for almost all of my doings (I have 2 PVD mags I use for other functions) he has used 4 PVD 9 round magazines as range mags. We have assigned “gravity” mags that we label for dropping, stepping on or whatever range abuse occurs. The PVD mags look a whole lot better than my blue ones.


At 20,000 rounds he has chosen to also change the:

hammer pin spring,
housing pin o-ring (not for wear, but he lost it when cleaning at 10,726- ran fine without it),
lever assembly pin,
extractor pin and both extractor springs,
decocker lever pin and spring,
disassembly latch spring,
hammer assembly pin,
trigger bar spring,
hammer frame pin,
hammer strut pin,
firing pin catch spring,
slide catch spring.

Some of these parts I changed @30,000 and some I have still not changed (all details have been listed in this thread). I am running mine to see what parts can take. He is doing differently (justifiably). He has a nice, more expensive Special Duty PX4 and he keeps it nice and always gets PVD coated parts when possible, even though he does not plan to be in sea water for 10 days, he is actually rough on stuff. He does understand the value of his pistol and keeps it up.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

PX4 Storm .45 SD type G @20,028 rounds (sans barrel)

24707

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Observations of differences between the PX4 Storm .45 and the PX4 Storm .45 SD (Special Duty)


Having put almost 34,000 rounds on my range .45 Storm and watched 20,228 rounds put on the Storm SD, having put nearly 100 rounds through the SD (a few here and there), frequently inspecting it and having been in on all disassembly, reassembly and maintenance of both... I have observed some differences worth noting.


The dimensions are identical, with the exception of the 1/2” longer barrel on the SD. All parts and magazines are interchangeable if one wanted to. I find the longer barrel to give more perception of front end heaviness, that some may like or dislike.
The front 1 1/2” of the regular .45 slide gets coated with carbon after a few magazines, as does the front sight. The extra barrel length on the SD seems to move muzzle flash away enough to prevent most of this. Since getting that baked on carbon off is a major chore after 600 rounds, that is an advantage. The extended barrel tends to push through the holster first and minimizes holster wear on that same area. There is a small velocity advantage of a slightly longer barrel. It also gives an option as a suppressor host, if one wanted.


The FDE (Flat Dark Earth) grip frame shows dirt more readily, but cleans up well. The SD slide had a more polished, thinner Bruniton that was wearing quickly, but my shooting partner had his slide Cerakoted to match the frame, anyway. Cerakote has proven very tough and wears more slowly. See post #43 on page 5.


As you can see from the picture of the SD parts in the post before this (#128), not all internal parts are coated with PVD (Physical Vapor Disposition). The PVD is supposed to prevent rust if left in sea water for up to 10 days. I don’t think enough parts are coated to accomplish that. The parts that are coated with PVD do resist wear longer and may last longer because of that. Critical wear parts, like the hammer, sear and firing pin block plunger are not PVD coated, though. You cannot always reliably get PVD coated parts and pins to replace old ones, if you plan to do a high round count.

The PVD coating is not on the sear nor hammer. So, the action is not advantaged by it. The trigger bar is coated and that could affect DA, but we cannot perceive a difference. It is certainly not a replacement for a Competition Hammer group (FCG) and certainly not like an LTT trigger job or trigger job in a bag.


If you are considering a PX4 Storm .45 you might want to weight the differences between advertised perception and applicability to your own experience or intended usage. One must also calculate in the “cool factor”, waterproof Pelican case, extra mag (3 PVD mags) and accessories that it comes with. When it comes down to drawing and shooting the differences are not perceptible, except the longer barrel, if you like that. My shooting partner is quite thrilled with his SD and has no regret about the initial price difference.

It seems that most people do not shoot a PX4 .45 much. I’ve heard of some putting a couple of thousand rounds throughout the years. Chances are, if you are thinking about a Storm .45 it is for fun, cool factor, defense or to add to the collection and broaden the shooting experience. The SD has the novelty, cool factor and interestingly different quality and value to suit that bill. If you want to shoot your .45 a lot, you can go either way, depending upon taste.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Performance Update PX4 .45 G


Hit 34,000 rounds today with my Storm .45. I had a few ammo induced stoppages to report.


In the last two shooting sessions I had a few issues. Last time I had a stove-pipe stoppage caused by a weak report from the cartridge. I also had three rounds fail to go to battery.

We have a pattern for when we suspect bad ammo, but want to be sure it is not the pistol. I extracted the rounds that failed to go to battery and gave them to my shooting partner to try in his PX4 .45 SD. The rounds failed to go to battery and stuck at the same depth as in mine. We examined the rounds and found what we expected.

We were using Winchester white box 230 grn FMJ (price consideration). When Winchester makes their target loads they don’t fabricate their own brass. Their headstamp is on them, but they out-source the brass. Sometimes the brass is a tiny bit too long. This will cause the case mouth to pinch in or out in the presses. That is what we found. 1 case mouth slightly belled out and 1 slightly belled in & 1 with the bullet seated too deeply. All ammo that failed to feed had a detectable issue.
Competitors with .45s will often use a Case Gauge Micrometer to check brass length and crimp before using. As much as 20% get discarded from Winchesters on average.

The stove-pipes were attached to weak charges in the cartridges. An interesting phenomenon has been occurring that I had not seen before... more than a few times I could see my brass ejecting as I shot. Normally it is too fast. Slow ejection is indicative of weak charges. My Shooting partner also reported observing a few of my brasses land a foot behind me, instead of the usual 10’ or so.

I am not past considering limp-wristing, but I was aware of consciously holding well and timing recoil reaction post lock-time. On one of our exercises we simulate a damaged strong hand (right, in my case). You must draw from normal holster position with the left hand and shoot. Some of our exercises require doing that on one foot or tipping over. What I’m getting at is- occasionally one of those DA shots is so awkward of a grip that I am amazed I did not get a limp wrist jam! We have even tested limp-wrist shooting, it does not seem to affect this pistol.


Today’s ammo all fed perfectly, though I had 2 stove-pipes. I decided that while I’m getting through this batch of ammo (always watching for squibs), that rather than return it, I’ll use it to practice stoppage speed recovery drills. Having a PX4 Storm in good condition deprives one of the experience of dealing with stoppages and malfunctions :) . Since I do 600+ rounds per week, I should be through this batch soon, if not already.


I do not see this as a fault in the pistol. It performed smoothly and quickly and recovered well. Spent brass looked normal and firing pin dents healthy.

Now... if they could only install a self-cleaning button like on a stove...

[Storm SD]

Observations of differences between the PX4 Storm .45 and the PX4 Storm .45 SD (Special Duty)


Having put almost 34,000 rounds on my range .45 Storm and watched 20,228 rounds put on the Storm SD, having put nearly 100 rounds through the SD (a few here and there), frequently inspecting it and having been in on all disassembly, reassembly and maintenance of both... I have observed some differences worth noting.


The dimensions are identical, with the exception of the 1/2” longer barrel on the SD. All parts and magazines are interchangeable if one wanted to. I find the longer barrel to give more perception of front end heaviness, that some may like or dislike.
The front 1 1/2” of the regular .45 slide gets coated with carbon after a few magazines, as does the front sight. The extra barrel length on the SD seems to move muzzle flash away enough to prevent most of this. Since getting that baked on carbon off is a major chore after 600 rounds, that is an advantage. The extended barrel tends to push through the holster first and minimizes holster wear on that same area. There is a small velocity advantage of a slightly longer barrel. It also gives an option as a suppressor host, if one wanted.


The FDE (Flat Dark Earth) grip frame shows dirt more readily, but cleans up well. The SD slide had a more polished, thinner Bruniton that was wearing quickly, but my shooting partner had his slide Cerakoted to match the frame, anyway. Cerakote has proven very tough and wears more slowly. See post #43 on page 5.


As you can see from the picture of the SD parts in the post before this (#128), not all internal parts are coated with PVD (Physical Vapor Disposition). The PVD is supposed to prevent rust if left in sea water for up to 10 days. I don’t think enough parts are coated to accomplish that. The parts that are coated with PVD do resist wear longer and may last longer because of that. Critical wear parts, like the hammer, sear and firing pin block plunger are not PVD coated, though. You cannot always reliably get PVD coated parts and pins to replace old ones, if you plan to do a high round count.

The PVD coating is not on the sear nor hammer. So, the action is not advantaged by it. The trigger bar is coated and that could affect DA, but we cannot perceive a difference. It is certainly not a replacement for a Competition Hammer group (FCG) and certainly not like an LTT trigger job or trigger job in a bag.


If you are considering a PX4 Storm .45 you might want to weight the differences between advertised perception and applicability to your own experience or intended usage. One must also calculate in the “cool factor”, waterproof Pelican case, extra mag (3 PVD mags) and accessories that it comes with. When it comes down to drawing and shooting the differences are not perceptible, except the longer barrel, if you like that. My shooting partner is quite thrilled with his SD and has no regret about the initial price difference.

It seems that most people do not shoot a PX4 .45 much. I’ve heard of some putting a couple of thousand rounds throughout the years. Chances are, if you are thinking about a Storm .45 it is for fun, cool factor, defense or to add to the collection and broaden the shooting experience. The SD has the novelty, cool factor and interestingly different quality and value to suit that bill. If you want to shoot your .45 a lot, you can go either way, depending upon taste.

I have found that the PVD coated parts, the Cerakoted slide, and extended barrel have the advantage of limiting the time required for cleaning. I do not clean as often as you, PX4 Storm Tracker, but I am pleased with how little wear there seems to be on most of the parts. This PX4 Storm SD now has 20,438 rounds and still maintains a very "new" appearance.

[Storm SD]

A Stormy day at the range

This is a picture of some of our PX4 Storms that we took at the shooting range. The top left is my PX4 Storm SD and the top right is my EDC PX4 Storm .40


25071

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Storm SD That is a cool picture!

Out of curiosity, I know you have had 2 PX4 full size 9s, a PX4 Compact 9, carried a PX4 SubCompact 9 for a while, you have a full size .40 for your EDC... What makes you choose the PX4 Storm SD for your shooting? Is there something about the SD or is it about being .45 ACP?

Not a lot of people shoot the PX4 .45 a lot. You have put over 20,000 rounds on your SD. What is the reasoning behind that choice?

[Storm SD]

Storm SD That is a cool picture!

Out of curiosity, I know you have had 2 PX4 full size 9s, a PX4 Compact 9, carried a PX4 SubCompact 9 for a while, you have a full size .40 for your EDC... What makes you choose the PX4 Storm SD for your shooting? Is there something about the SD or is it about being .45 ACP?

Not a lot of people shoot the PX4 .45 a lot. You have put over 20,000 rounds on your SD. What is the reasoning behind that choice?
I have found there are advantages and disadvantages to each model and caliber. Many of those factors are related to their capabilities as an EDC. However, my decision to shoot the SD in .45 has little to do with that. I am known for being rough on things, so when I read about the PX4 Storm SD and its claimed durability, I thought it sounded like the perfect gun for me. (That may have been just a good excuse because I thought it looked cool). Since my time away from work is very limited, my shooting time has to serve for both practice and recreation. A lot of extra time spent cleaning can take the "recreation" out of shooting pretty quickly. I found the SD easier to clean compared to my other Storms. Also, there is a "fun factor" in shooting .45 that I don't feel as much with the others. The extra recoil makes it a little more challenging for me. As the round count on the SD has increased, I've also noticed that the PVD coated parts do show less wear than the same parts at the same round count on your full size PX4 Storm .45. So, it looks like it may actually live up to some of those durability claims. Overall, that PX4 Storm SD was a gun that I really liked and wanted from the first time I saw it, and I enjoy shooting it.

[beenalongtime]

Surprised you are not using the same backstrap across sizes.

[Storm SD]

Surprised you are not using the same backstrap across sizes.

I have found that the larger pistol (the .45) with the small backstrap has a more similar feel to the .40 with the large backstrap. Since I want my EDC to draw and feel more like the pistol that I shoot more often at the range, I chose to have that set up.

[Storm SD]

I have a couple of pictures that may be of some interest for some. The first picture is just a side by side comparison of a standard PX4 Storm .45 and a PX4 Storm SD .45.

25098


The next picture was taken at the range. The same two .45s are on the left side of the picture. We had both shot about the same amount of rounds that day before taking this picture. Notice the amount of carbon on the front of the slide of the first .45 compared to the amount on the SD. I never considered that potential difference and how it would affect my cleaning time when I purchased the Storm SD, but it has become one of the more desired traits of that model for me.

25099

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

So, Storm SD ... what about your action?


A few questions about your trigger pull:

What type of hammer spring do you have installed?

How many rounds do you have on the hammer spring in your pistol?

What is the weight of your DA pull? SA?

Does it stack? Is it smooth throughout?

How many rounds since you lubricated the hammer pivot pin, sear and trigger bar?

Are there any other modifications to your pistol affecting the action?

[Storm SD]

So, Storm SD ... what about your action?


A few questions about your trigger pull:

What type of hammer spring do you have installed?

How many rounds do you have on the hammer spring in your pistol?

What is the weight of your DA pull? SA?

Does it stack? Is it smooth throughout?

How many rounds since you lubricated the hammer pivot pin, sear and trigger bar?

Are there any other modifications to your pistol affecting the action?

I have a Beretta D-spring installed to give a little lighter trigger pull. The double action currently averages 6 lbs 14 oz and the single action averages 4 lbs 1 oz. I have 15,287 rounds on that spring. The trigger feels pretty smooth without stacking.

I recently did a complete disassembly of the slide and receiver. The gun had 20,028 rounds on it at that point. I replaced a few pins and springs. Upon reassembly, I did apply a little bit of Shooter's Choice grease to the hammer pivot pin, sear, and trigger bar in the areas of contact and potential wear. I have 635 rounds on it since then. I've also replaced the factory "safety" levers and slide catch with the low profile versions. I converted it to a type G so that those "safety" levers are decocker levers only.

[TheNewbie]

The PX4 seems extremely easy to field strip. Is there much risk of this happening unintentionally? Say during a draw out of the holster.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The PX4 seems extremely easy to field strip. Is there much risk of this happening unintentionally? Say during a draw out of the holster.

Good question!

The disassembly latch that is used to release the slide for field stripping is in what might appear to be a vulnerable place. However, in all the years of shooting a dozen PX4s, thousands of draws, one hand manipulations and every conceivable use, I have never had one even come loose.

The latch must come down fairly evenly on both sides to release. There are some people that have a very “thumb forward” grip that seems to rest on the lever end. If they removed their trigger finger and placed it on the other, as well.... looks like it could cause a mishap. But, they would still have to exert downward pressure as well.

I cannot say it is impossible, but so improbable that I have never seen, even the newest student trip a slide release. I have never seen it in about 90,000 rounds through PX4 Storms. When we train I average 50 draws each session, plus multiple snap cap practice draws between sessions. Never a problem.

I do recommend that anyone shooting a PX4 be aware of what those lever ends do, but in trying to cause that accidental disconnect, I cannot do it on purpose, even.

I do recall LangdonTactical mentioning a type of holster he suspected might cause this. So, let’s see if he has any feedback on that.

[beenalongtime]

I do recall LangdonTactical mentioning a type of holster he suspected might cause this. So, let’s see if he has any feedback on that.

I remember the holster your talking about. It was one, someone made themselves, using kydex they already had lying around. (effectively a homemade version of a commercial holster)
They pushed the holster in a bit much where those levers were and had them pushed down to the release setting.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Storm SD , In post #134 you wrote, “I've also noticed that the PVD coated parts do show less wear than the same parts at the same round count on your full size PX4 Storm .45.” That is true. However, another consideration is your disassembly latch. It is not PVD coated.

Your disassembly latch @20,000 rounds was more torn up and worn down than mine @31,000 or any I’ve ever seen. Mine only had the finish worn off and would still be in use if I did not want new parts for the front end job. (this thread, page 12, post #112)

My guess would be that the guide rod assembly (slide rebound springs) being double and stronger on an SD, increase wear and hit the barrel lug into the cam block, into the disassembly latch harder when returning to battery. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 Post #35

I would suggest replacing it, either @25,000 or @30,000. Keep a good eye on it.

How is the condition of the cam’s locking slot?

Do you have a picture of that double spring?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I remember the holster your talking about. It was one, someone made themselves, using kydex they already had lying around. (effectively a homemade version of a commercial holster)
They pushed the holster in a bit much where those levers were and had them pushed down to the release setting.

Thanks, that's the one.


Prdator , As a holster expert who also carries a PX4 Compact Carry, is there a chance of disassembly latch deactivation in, out or from a holster? Do your holsters take special account of this?

[Storm SD]

Storm SD , In post #134 you wrote, “I've also noticed that the PVD coated parts do show less wear than the same parts at the same round count on your full size PX4 Storm .45.” That is true. However, another consideration is your disassembly latch. It is not PVD coated.

Your disassembly latch @20,000 rounds was more torn up and worn down than mine @31,000 or any I’ve ever seen. Mine only had the finish worn off and would still be in use if I did not want new parts for the front end job. (this thread, page 12, post #112)

My guess would be that the guide rod assembly (slide rebound springs) being double and stronger on an SD, increase wear and hit the barrel lug into the cam block, into the disassembly latch harder when returning to battery. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 Post #35

I would suggest replacing it, either @25,000 or @30,000. Keep a good eye on it.

How is the condition of the cam’s locking slot?

Do you have a picture of that double spring?

I have a picture of the double spring and of the locking slot on the bottom of the cam block. I'll keep an eye on that disassembly latch. I already have one on order through Brownells.

25164


25165

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have a picture of the double spring and of the locking slot on the bottom of the cam block. I'll keep an eye on that disassembly latch. I already have one on order through Brownells.


Good pictures. The locking slot looks good and in good shape.

[Prdator]

Thanks, that's the one.


Prdator , As a holster expert who also carries a PX4 Compact Carry, is there a chance of disassembly latch deactivation in, out or from a holster? Do your holsters take special account of this?

I guess if it was made poorly it could..! If it was molded REALLY tight I could see that happing. But Thats not at all how we do things and we've sold a LOT of PX4CC Keepers and never had a complaint. we also use two different PX4CC to fit each holster we send out. Y'all should know what a Fan I am of the PX4CC Mod4.5 or above.. LOL

[beenalongtime]

Found the reply with the original post in it:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19&p=607995&viewfull=1#post607995

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Found the reply with the original post in it:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19&p=607995&viewfull=1#post607995

Good deal! Thanks

[That Guy]

The PX4 seems extremely easy to field strip. Is there much risk of this happening unintentionally? Say during a draw out of the holster.

Someone, somewhere on P-F, in one of the epic mega threads about this pistol, mentioned a leather holster (that they bought directly from Beretta no less!) that was formed in such a matter as to engage the disassembly lever when the pistol was in the holster. During practice, the aforementioned bloke ended up drawing just the frame of the pistol, which is how the issue was discovered.

(All this comes directly from my pitifully poor memory, of course, so if this is important to you you might want to try searching for that post yourself.)

With a holster that doesn't protrude into the dimples in the frame around the disassembly lever, unintentional disassembly should not be a realistic concern. You do have to pull both sides of the disassembly lever evenly in order to engage it.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Someone, somewhere on P-F, in one of the epic mega threads about this pistol, mentioned a leather holster (that they bought directly from Beretta no less!) that was formed in such a matter as to engage the disassembly lever when the pistol was in the holster. During practice, the aforementioned bloke ended up drawing just the frame of the pistol, which is how the issue was discovered.

(All this comes directly from my pitifully poor memory, of course, so if this is important to you you might want to try searching for that post yourself.)

With a holster that doesn't protrude into the dimples in the frame around the disassembly lever, unintentional disassembly should not be a realistic concern. You do have to pull both sides of the disassembly lever evenly in order to engage it.

Thanks. Once you included the word "leather" it made it easier to find.

There was a post by Rick_ICT , post #2427 at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19&p=621286&highlight=leather#post621286

He refers to a poorly designed leather holster from Beretta. His investigations showed it was dragging on the lever ends and was such a tight fit that it lowered the levers upon insertion. His descriptions in his original post (linked in his comment) describe a holster that was so tight it was not usable for a while (if ever).

My review of his comments seems to clearly indicate a poorly designed holster. I've tagged him to this comment, in case he wishes to clarify.

A take home lesson could be: If the holster is so tight that it takes 2 hands, maybe also a foot, to get the pistol in or out and the holster fills the indentations for the disassembly latch ends... don't use it.

[Rick_ICT]

Thanks. Once you included the word "leather" it made it easier to find.

There was a post by @Rick_ICT (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12109) , post #2427 at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19&p=621286&highlight=leather#post621286

He refers to a poorly designed leather holster from Beretta. His investigations showed it was dragging on the lever ends and was such a tight fit that it lowered the levers upon insertion. His descriptions in his original post (linked in his comment) describe a holster that was so tight it was not usable for a while (if ever).

My review of his comments seems to clearly indicate a poorly designed holster. I've tagged him to this comment, in case he wishes to clarify.

A take home lesson could be: If the holster is so tight that it takes 2 hands, maybe also a foot, to get the pistol in or out and the holster fills the indentations for the disassembly latch ends... don't use it.

Nothing to be added. I was quite happy that the holster was very snug out of the box, since there is no retention device aside from friction. Far better to break a holster in to fit the gun properly than get some loose leather bucket you have to hold the pistol in if you want to move fast. That's why I was keeping the unloaded PX4 in it 24/7, to get it to relax to the point I could start working with it. It was loosening up nicely and I had high hopes. However, after the second time the holster disassembled the pistol for me and I determined it was due to the design of the holster, I was through with it for good. So it sits on a shelf in a cabinet in my reloading room, along with all of the other holsters for various pistols that looked good at the time they were purchased but fell short in practice. Although I probably could have worked those dimples out of the leather, I knew I wouldn't ever trust the holster for concealed carry. I should have returned it to Beretta along with a piece of my mind. I still swear by my JMCK George and the PX4 Compact, however.

[LangdonTactical]

Nothing to be added. I was quite happy that the holster was very snug out of the box, since there is no retention device aside from friction. Far better to break a holster in to fit the gun properly than get some loose leather bucket you have to hold the pistol in if you want to move fast. That's why I was keeping the unloaded PX4 in it 24/7, to get it to relax to the point I could start working with it. It was loosening up nicely and I had high hopes. However, after the second time the holster disassembled the pistol for me and I determined it was due to the design of the holster, I was through with it for good. So it sits on a shelf in a cabinet in my reloading room, along with all of the other holsters for various pistols that looked good at the time they were purchased but fell short in practice. Although I probably could have worked those dimples out of the leather, I knew I wouldn't ever trust the holster for concealed carry. I should have returned it to Beretta along with a piece of my mind. I still swear by my JMCK George and the PX4 Compact, however.

I wish you would send it back to Beretta and let them know. I need help so that it is not just me telling them about things that are an issue. Sometimes it's hard to be the only guy bringing in the bad news :(

[Rick_ICT]

I wish you would send it back to Beretta and let them know. I need help so that it is not just me telling them about things that are an issue. Sometimes it's hard to be the only guy bringing in the bad news :(

Mr. Langdon, considering what you’ve done for Beretta handguns in general and the PX4 in particular over the last several years, I’d think you would have hiring and firing privileges over there by now, let alone having the company’s ear when you tell them something isn’t working or could be improved upon.

It has been over two years at this point since I bought the holster, so returning it would feel unreasonable. I’ll be incommunicado for a couple of days, but if you think it would be of any benefit when I return I’ll email them a short summary of my issue with the holster and offer to return it if they want to inspect it. I can’t imagine they haven’t already heard about by now from others, if they are even still selling the same holster.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Routine maintenance update: 35,000 rounds


Hitting 35,000 rounds through my PX4 Storm .45 G and it is time for some scheduled maintenance. Since I’ve been ahead on part and spring changes (all logged in this thread) there are no planned part or spring changes.


As mentioned in previous posts in this thread (page 2- post #12, page 7- posts #69, #70) I disassemble and clean inside the slide every 5,000 rounds.

The firing pin channel gets dirty, as does the path back, in and around the decocker lever shaft. The firing pin block plunger tends to get dirty, as well.


When firing, the firing pin hole is filled (temporarily) with the firing pin head. It is spring rebound loaded, but the primer will cover the hole unless it blows through. This is rare. CCI primers tend toward this more than others, but it is rare. So, how does it get so dirty in there?

The “blast exhaust area” (as I call it) is the area from the rear of the barrel and back during the slide’s opening for ejection. During the ejection (not extraction) the extractor is extended out to its maximum movement.
When firing, the extractor does not pull the brass out, the brass pushes the slide back. When it gets back far enough the brass hits the ejector bar, which is that fixed, long arm that is part of the hammer assembly housing. The ejector bumps the brass out and the extractor is pushed way open to direct the path of the brass.
This means that the extractor is way open during the exhaust of the cartridge’s explosion. So carbon, gunk and debris are pushed under the extractor, as well. The first section of the extractor aligns with the firing pin’s forward flat. For more on this, see https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4&highlight=firing post #40. This area gets very dirty and gets carbon build up quickly.
You might have also observed smoke come out of the back of your slide from the firing pin plunger that your hammer hits. This pressure (which is normal) is how it gets dirty.


If you let it build up too much in there it can cause resistance and make your firing pin’s movement sluggish, causing light strikes or the need for a stronger hammer spring. The firing pin block plunger could get too dirty and get stuck in the deactivated position, making holstering unsafe.

While it is true that one could go longer than 5,000 rounds between cleaning, I’ve found this pattern to give the most efficiency of part interaction and function in .45.


If you want more information about these parts mentioned, what they do, how they work... there is a detailed thread explaining parts and their interactions with pictures.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how

[MSparks909]

Has anyone settled on a surefire (no pun intended) way to mount a suppressor to the PX4 .45 SD? I’m aware it’s not threaded from the factory but you either have to settle for conventional RH threads which you constantly need to tighten or LH threads which tighten the suppressor with each shot. I watched a few videos on a SilencerCo can on a 45SD but it kept coming loose. More curious than anything.

[willie]

What lube brand are you using?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

What lube brand are you using?

willie, I use Shooter's Choice All Weather High Tech grease. I also use Beretta brand CLP (Clean Lubricate Protect) on some internals, like the decocker lever shaft and firing pin block plunger.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Has anyone settled on a surefire (no pun intended) way to mount a suppressor to the PX4 .45 SD? I’m aware it’s not threaded from the factory but you either have to settle for conventional RH threads which you constantly need to tighten or LH threads which tighten the suppressor with each shot. I watched a few videos on a SilencerCo can on a 45SD but it kept coming loose. More curious than anything.

MSparks909, I have not found any answers close to surefire. Your observations seem quite accurate. If one were to not want to remove the suppressor, without tools and a vise, one could thread in a perpetually tightening direction.
My best guess would be that if Beretta had gotten the military contract with the SD they would have had to make a suitable suppressor. When they did not, they might not have had enough customer interest, so supply & demand led them to not pursue it.

I will keep digging into this. If I find any information, I'll post it.

I'm going to contact the Parts Manager @ Beretta and see if they have come up with a solution.

[beenalongtime]

MSparks909, I have not found any answers close to surefire. Your observations seem quite accurate. If one were to not want to remove the suppressor, without tools and a vise, one could thread in a perpetually tightening direction.
My best guess would be that if Beretta had gotten the military contract with the SD they would have had to make a suitable suppressor. When they did not, they might not have had enough customer interest, so supply & demand led them to not pursue it.

I will keep digging into this. If I find any information, I'll post it.

I'm going to contact the Parts Manager @ Beretta and see if they have come up with a solution.

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126780&highlight=px4+silencer

Post 18 particularly
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4196/34596711353_756d3288e5_o.jpg

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126780&highlight=px4+silencer

Post 18 particularly
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4196/34596711353_756d3288e5_o.jpg

Well done! Thanks

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Has anyone settled on a surefire (no pun intended) way to mount a suppressor to the PX4 .45 SD? I’m aware it’s not threaded from the factory but you either have to settle for conventional RH threads which you constantly need to tighten or LH threads which tighten the suppressor with each shot. I watched a few videos on a SilencerCo can on a 45SD but it kept coming loose. More curious than anything.

I heard back from Beretta about the suppressor on a PX4 SD.
They do not recommend it because the additional weight will stress the rotation of the barrel, causing stoppages.
I would imagine that it would also wear down the cam on the cam block and the cam slot in the barrel.

I asked why the SD has the longer barrel. The only response was that it was not for a suppressor.

Any additional input on this e_stern ?

[Storm SD]

Here are a few pictures comparing/contrasting the magazines that come with the PX4 Storm SD and the standard PX4 Storm .45. The PVD coated magazine from the SD is the silver colored one.

25369

25370

25371

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Here are a few pictures comparing/contrasting the magazines that come with the PX4 Storm SD and the standard PX4 Storm .45. The PVD coated magazine from the SD is the silver colored one.


How many rounds do you put through a range mag before cleaning it?

Have you ever had any stoppages or loading issues due to dirty mags?

Have you ever had any issues due to dropping range mags when reloading?

[Storm SD]

How many rounds do you put through a range mag before cleaning it?

Have you ever had any stoppages or loading issues due to dirty mags?

Have you ever had any issues due to dropping range mags when reloading?

I have been putting around 2,000 rounds through each mag before cleaning. I have four range mags that are used in reloading exercises and are dropped. I have yet to have any stoppages or loading issues from mags being dirty or as a result of being dropped.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have been putting around 2,000 rounds through each mag before cleaning. I have four range mags that are used in reloading exercises and are dropped. I have yet to have any stoppages or loading issues from mags being dirty or as a result of being dropped.

Do you know how many total rounds those mags have seen?

[Storm SD]

Do you know how many total rounds those mags have seen?

I have 4 drop magazines for the range, but I did not start using all four at the same time. All four magazines are used during each shooting session and rotated as they are emptied. I don't keep an exact count, but I have two magazines that have around 3,800 rounds and two that have around 4,570 rounds. I also have the two 10 round mags and one 9 round mag that came with the SD originally. One of the 9 round mags and one 10 round mag have 2000 rounds on them, while the other 10 round mag has a little less than 500. I cleaned those up and they are kept as carry mags.

How many rounds do you have on each of your magazines?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have 4 drop magazines for the range, but I did not start using all four at the same time. All four magazines are used during each shooting session and rotated as they are emptied. I don't keep an exact count, but I have two magazines that have around 3,800 rounds and two that have around 4,570 rounds. I also have the two 10 round mags and one 9 round mag that came with the SD originally. One of the 9 round mags and one 10 round mag have 2000 rounds on them, while the other 10 round mag has a little less than 500. I cleaned those up and they are kept as carry mags.

How many rounds do you have on each of your magazines?

My .45 magazines’ round count history:

R1 (9 rounder) =13,524

R2 (10 rounder) =200

R3g, R4g (9 rounders) =7,747 each

M5g, M6g (9 rounders) =3,979 each

Carry mags
S1-2, S.1-2, P1-4, M1-4 =110 (only M1-2 are 10 rounders)

This is for 35,200 rounds through my range pistol and 2,086 through my EDC.



All of my magazines are labeled and color coded for their assigned purposes. R mags are used at or to the range, the g indicates drop mags . S mags are used as defense loads inserted in the pistols. P mags are for use in the pouch on my belt and M mags are mitt mags*. Mitt mags also get any odd-ball assignments. M5, M6 were reassigned to range use, but the designations were not changed to keep track of their history.

*I used to use an oven mitt as a way to transport under certain conditions. The pistol inserted into the mitt and a spare mag in the thumb. Some LGS commented that they thought I brought a sandwich, until the pistol came out. They liked the idea.

[Storm SD]

My .45 magazines’ round count history:

R1 (9 rounder) =13,524

R2 (10 rounder) =200

R3g, R4g (9 rounders) =7,747 each

M5g, M6g (9 rounders) =3,979 each

Carry mags
S1-2, S.1-2, P1-4, M1-4 =110 (only M1-2 are 10 rounders)

This is for 35,200 rounds through my range pistol and 2,086 through my EDC.



All of my magazines are labeled and color coded for their assigned purposes. R mags are used at or to the range, the g indicates drop mags . S mags are used as defense loads inserted in the pistols. P mags are for use in the pouch on my belt and M mags are mitt mags*. Mitt mags also get any odd-ball assignments. M5, M6 were reassigned to range use, but the designations were not changed to keep track of their history.

*I used to use an oven mitt as a way to transport under certain conditions. The pistol inserted into the mitt and a spare mag in the thumb. Some LGS commented that they thought I brought a sandwich, until the pistol came out. They liked the idea.

How often do you clean your mags? How do you usually clean them? Do you use solvent on your magazines when cleaning them? If so, does your procedure differ with your carry mags, as opposed to your range mags, in order to avoid the potential contact of your self defense ammo primers with solvent?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

How often do you clean your mags? How do you usually clean them? Do you use solvent on your magazines when cleaning them? If so, does your procedure differ with your carry mags, as opposed to your range mags, in order to avoid the potential contact of your self defense ammo primers with solvent?

My magazine cleaning protocol differs with the magazine’s assignment.

Firstly, when I get a new mag it is covered with a rust preventative “goop”. When I was in Gunsmithing School we used RIG when a part came out of the bluing tanks. It stops rusting and protects. This stuff is a hardened covering that is similar. While Beretta insists that it will not hurt primers, it does get partially worn or scraped off and will find its way into the pistol.
I have found that it is quite stubborn. However, rubbing alcohol gets it right off.

All mags must then go to the range for testing. Mags that will be duty mags or self defense mags are then fully cleaned without solvent. I do not use solvent on mags that will carry defense loads. I use barely damp paper towels and patches. I assemble dry.
Now, I must put a slight disclaimer here. In order to run a mag dry you must not leave any fingerprints on anything. Finger oils are more corrosive than water.

There are many that espouse the practice of putting a light coat of oil in there. I do not. When you talk with gun manufacturers they will sing the “light coat of oil” anthem about everything. But... when you talk to ammunition manufacturers they will say, “just say No to oils near ammo”. I have always hoped that gun companies and ammo companies could sit down together and share notes. Also note that the PX4 owners manual says not to get oil on your ammo. It could cause malfunctions or excessive chamber pressure. (So don’t oil that center bar of your slide that sits on your loaded mag)

Back to cleaning... The defense mags are loaded for 1 month and rotated with their twin counterparts. All Storms are on the same even/odd number rotation. Every 6 months they are completely disassembled and checked for lint, nickel or filings. I always wear thin gloves for mag changing and inside cleaning. In all these years, with a dozen Storms... no rust problems.

I have 2 PVD mags (which I don’t like). They have rough insides. I use 1 in test loading for 1 year, then switch. The other works as my snap cap mag, loaded with a few snap caps. This way the PVD can be handled and left without cleaning off longer.



Range mags: Fingerprints are wiped off before leaving the range (along with any mud). After 2 weeks they get a field cleaning. I use a baby-bottle brush on the inside and a toothbrush on the inner lips. Damp paper towels will do the rest. (2 weeks = 1,200 rounds/4 = 300 rounds each). 2 weeks later they get full cleaned @2,400/4 =600 each. We use KG1 carbon remover and tooth brushes followed by fairly damp paper towels. They get totally, really clean.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My PX4 .45 ACP cleaning protocols


Another characteristic of the .45, compared to the .40 or 9, is how dirty it gets. To address this and keep things working well and smoothly, while not spending all of my time and energy cleaning, I have made certain cleaning protocols for certain intervals.

Range clean- This is designed to be done at the range. After shooting I wipe the outside of the pistol with barely damp paper towels, including the hammer face. Then, with the slide back, I use a wooden skewer to push a damp paper towel to clean the breech and feed ramp. Next, with the slide forward I clean the mag well and use a skewer to push a paper towel up to clean the center bar. Now it could be loaded with defense loads for the trip home without getting die-lube, carbons or transient grease on my defense ammo.

Range clean and regrease- For this I remove the slide after range cleaning and add grease to the frame rails and cam.

Field clean- This is the most frequent cleaning protocol. No solvents are used. It could be done in the field for survival for a very long time.
I will use barely damp paper towels. This is done by squeezing the water fully out of the paper towels, then laying them out between flat, dry paper towels and pressing them almost dry. They are so dry that a body builder, ranch hand, trainer that flips tractor tires and dead lifts small buildings (like Storm SD ) could not get them to drip.
I use dry nylon brushes and skewers pushing damp paper towels. I especially get under the extractor claw and the breech. The bore is done with a dry bronze brush from the Beretta kit, then nylon brushes, finishing with a soft nylon brush from Storm SD’s SD box (don’t tell him). I then contort a paper towel into the chamber tightly and wring it out until it comes out spotless. Next, a dry patch.

Full clean- Done every ~2,500 rounds. This incorporates the use of Hoppe’s #9 to remove carbon build-up and soot. I use nylon brushes and an air compressor to remove the solvent. I do not use wire bushes outside of the bore.
When I was in Gunsmithing School, there was a sign over the bluing tanks, “Warning, if you don’t know what you’re doing, do nothing.”. Less dramatically, I advise caution in using an air compressor. You could push goop to where it was not and unseat little springs. If you do know how to manage this, it is effective. When cleaning the frame I use a thin skewer or toothpick to push a paper towel into the hole of the guide rod’s rear seat.

Detail slide clean- Every 5,000 rounds. I totally disassemble the slide (except the sights) and clean the firing pin channel, all interior surfaces and all parts. In .45, despite all efforts, you can get hard carbon build up around the breech. I use a dental tool for plaque removal. (Another, warning) If you are heavy handed, impatient or not detail focused, don’t try it. I do this because a wire brush risks rounding or deforming surfaces and the .45 leaves lots of carbon build up. I use the air compressor repeatedly to dry interior surfaces.

Detail frame clean- Every 10,000 rounds. I remove all parts, including the disassembly latch. I then solvent clean everything, including the inner frame. The air compressor is used here, too.



A word about KG1 from KG industry. In dealing with frequent hard carbon build up, I’ve sought better solutions. The rear teeth on the cam block can get build up. I use a little KG1, let it sit, and víolá, clean. If little hard spots remain, a tooth pick will pick them off. We use KG1 on my mags, as you read.

The limitations of KG1 use on Bruniton: I tried KG1 on the muzzle of my slide and wow! it removed all that carbon fast. However, it left behind a white film from its soap base that is supposed to rinse off, but doesn’t. It left a white cloud behind. Not even Hoppe’s #9 would budge it. I worked closely for a while with the owner of KG Industries to find a solution. Even KG3, which is supposed to remove KG1 did not get it all. He offered to refinish my pistol for free and was supportive, willing to stand behind his product, but I was not ready to lose this battle.
Storm SD is a Nutritionist, scientist and clinical analysis major. He determined the fat based residue, so we did a poor boy solution. Dawn dishwashing liquid (the duck treatment). That got it, over time. However, I don’t recommend extended use as water is introduced to the front sight.
Using KG1 on the slide was like having a mouse, so you got a cat to get rid of the mouse, then you get a dog to get rid of the cat, etc.. I just use the Hoppe’s #9 on the muzzle and it is slower, but way quicker. Bottom line- I advise against using KG1 on your slide.


Pistol round count: 35,500

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My lubrication method for my PX4 .45 Gs


I use 2 kinds of lubes. I use Beretta CLP oil when assembling the slide. I put a very thin coat on the outer shaft of the firing pin block plunger and the main shaft of the left side decocker lever. Not much on the firing pin block plunger, it could drip down onto your ammo. That’s it. On my EDC the interior slide is all dry. It is newer and as smooth as silk, so I don’t want a lint or dust magnet in there.

Inside the frame I use grease (described below) on the frame side of the trigger bar, sear contacts, hammer to sear, hammer to trigger bar contacts, trigger bar to hammer and sear contacts, hammer pivot pin, sides of the hammer pivot, strut to hammer pivot and a light film on the disassembly latch.


In normal use I use Shooter’s Choice All Weather, High Tech grease. It is good from -65° to 350° F. I use grease because it stays where I put it. I have found that oil will follow gravity and can be pushed off more easily. If one is going to lube up and go right to the range and shoot, that factor probably won’t matter.
I clean and regrease my EDC every 5 weeks, unless it is very dry out, then 4. The grease is always right where I left it. That includes being holstered most of the time, or placed down on its side.



From field stripped: I first put grease generously on the sides of the barrel’s cam slot. Next, thinly on the drag marks of the front teeth of the center block. I put a light film of grease around the barrel’s forward shaft that interacts with the hole for it in the front of the slide. On my EDC I then wipe off the grease from the forward shaft, leaving a trace only, or it collects lint.
I do not put grease on the barrel rearward of the lug. This could cause grease to be pushed back toward the loading ramp and get on my ammo. I put the barrel in the slide. No grease is directly applied to the slide and certainly none on the center rail, which sits on your loaded, inserted magazine’s top round.

I then put a very thin film of grease on the inner flats of the center block from the front of the rear teeth and forward. None back as far as the rear teeth. I insert the guide rod assembly. I then put a generous amount of grease around the cam sides. I do not put lube on the outer flats, it only has resistance during assembly, then does not move. I do not put any on the bottom flat, as it does not move and will only come out on your trigger. I insert the block and spring.

I then put a generous amount of grease on the frame rails and the vertical flats below them, less on the rear rails. I do not put grease on the slide’s rails because assembly will just push it off the front. I put a light film on the trigger bar top contact point on my range gun.

I assemble and only whack it back to half cock (that’s all that is needed to lock it in place) I then, function test, lock the slide back and inspect the ejection port. Slide then guided forward by hand with even pressure on both sides, clean the back of the slide from excess grease pushed out... done.


I can go many hundreds of rounds without regreasing. I have never had a lubrication problem in any Storm I’ve used this method with. When grease gets dirty with carbons and goop, it still remains slippery and works.

[Storm SD]

I have been trying something with my cleaning on my barrel. I have a plastic tube, (it was originally a single serving tube of liquid protein) that I have filled with Hoppe's 9. When I take the slide off, I will take the barrel and put it in the tube for about an hour before using the wire brush on it. It seems to loosen some of the carbons up so that they are removed more easily with the first few passes of the brush. After the first initial passes, it seems that the advantage is lost and the rest will just take time using the brush as usual.

25697

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Storm SD , Cleaning a bore that has shot hundreds or thousands of .45 ACP loads can be difficult.

In determining if this is a good idea worth trying, it leaves me with questions about specifics.


You wrote, “After the first initial passes, it seems that the advantage is lost and the rest will just take time using the brush as usual.”

How much (what percentage, perhaps) does the hour of soaking eliminate from the scrubbing to follow?

How much time does “the rest” of the brushing take?

Without counting the hour of soaking, how long do the barrel and bore take you to clean?

How clean does it get when you’re done? All mirror bright and shiny?

[Storm SD]

My attempt is to get the bore mirror bright and shiny. It is hard to estimate the amount of time that I spend cleaning the barrel. I work on it while at work in between customers, phone calls, orders, paying bills, etc. I run the brush, the one in the picture below the tube, through the bore about 100 times while applying more Hoppe’s 9 to the brush after every 25 passes. I then run three or four dry patches through the barrel after the 100 passes. I repeat this process until the bore is shiny. By soaking the barrel, I think it probably reduces the number of passes by three to four hundred. I usually work at this for two days, so I would estimate 1200 to 1500 passes with the brush. I wipe the barrel down with damp paper towels before putting it into the tube of Hoppe’s 9. Even with most of the surface cleaned, the bottom of the tube has a black coat of grease and carbons that have come loose and settled to the bottom after soaking for an hour. So, the soaking probably only saves me 15% of time I would usually use to clean the barrel. That may not be much, but even a little bit of time spared is valuable.

Also, to clarify my previous post in the thread… I use the wire brush only on the bore. I do not use a wire brush in cleaning of any other portion of the barrel.

[JTQ]

My attempt is to get the bore mirror bright and shiny. ...
Just a data point, but from a barrel maker...

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf


My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Just a data point, but from a barrel maker...

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf

JTQ, I'm going to look into this more, thanks for the data. Some differences I noticed so far are that the PX4 Storm has a chromium lined bore and is hammer forged. That does not mean that there is a big difference, but I will certainly check into this more.

I have consulted with a leading gunsmith, specializing in .45 ACP (and he shoots his 1911 a lot) on bore cleaning. I will study into this.

My field cleaning takes me 3 minutes on the bore and the solvent cleaning every 2,500 rounds- 30 minutes.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My attempt is to get the bore mirror bright and shiny. It is hard to estimate the amount of time that I spend cleaning the barrel. I work on it while at work in between customers, phone calls, orders, paying bills, etc. I run the brush, the one in the picture below the tube, through the bore about 100 times while applying more Hoppe’s 9 to the brush after every 25 passes. I then run three or four dry patches through the barrel after the 100 passes. I repeat this process until the bore is shiny. By soaking the barrel, I think it probably reduces the number of passes by three to four hundred. I usually work at this for two days, so I would estimate 1200 to 1500 passes with the brush. I wipe the barrel down with damp paper towels before putting it into the tube of Hoppe’s 9. Even with most of the surface cleaned, the bottom of the tube has a black coat of grease and carbons that have come loose and settled to the bottom after soaking for an hour. So, the soaking probably only saves me 15% of time I would usually use to clean the barrel. That may not be much, but even a little bit of time spared is valuable.

Also, to clarify my previous post in the thread… I use the wire brush only on the bore. I do not use a wire brush in cleaning of any other portion of the barrel.

That is a very long process for someone that shoots 2x week. How often do you do the cleaning you described?

[Kyle Reese]

My PX4 9mm just gets a steady diet of Wolf, Tula and Barnaul. Not concerned with cleaning it.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[PNWTO]

My PX4 9mm just gets a steady diet of Wolf, Tula and Barnaul. Not concerned with cleaning it.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Right? I have several pistols that haven't been cleaned for at least a case or two of ammo. One G19 hasn't been cleaned since 2016. No noticeable performance impact.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Right? I have several pistols that haven't been cleaned for at least a case or two of ammo. One G19 hasn't been cleaned since 2016. No noticeable performance impact.

Are you saying that nothing gets cleaned on those pistols or just the bore does not?

[Kyle Reese]

Right? I have several pistols that haven't been cleaned for at least a case or two of ammo. One G19 hasn't been cleaned since 2016. No noticeable performance impact.I'm just going to keep shooting it, adding lube and shoot it some more. Marvelous pistols.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[PNWTO]

Are you saying that nothing gets cleaned on those pistols or just the bore does not?

Nothing, maybe once a year in fall I'll give them a simple green bath and blast of brake cleaner; then punch the barrel, lube, and re-assemble. I know some enjoy cleaning in a meditative way but I don't see the purpose as we are in the 21st century and most reputable service pistols will run just fine.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Nothing, maybe once a year in fall I'll give them a simple green bath and blast of brake cleaner; then punch the barrel, lube, and re-assemble. I know some enjoy cleaning in a meditative way but I don't see the purpose as we are in the 21st century and most reputable service pistols will run just fine.

Yes, cleaning can be cathartic and meditative... but not twice per week! If there is a way to spend less time cleaning and I find it to be advantageous... I'm for it. I have other things to put energy and time into. Shoot more, clean less...

[e_stern]

I heard back from Beretta about the suppressor on a PX4 SD.
They do not recommend it because the additional weight will stress the rotation of the barrel, causing stoppages.
I would imagine that it would also wear down the cam on the cam block and the cam slot in the barrel.

I asked why the SD has the longer barrel. The only response was that it was not for a suppressor.

Any additional input on this e_stern ?

Any time you change a reciprocal component of a pistol system, it will negatively (normally, not in every case) affect long term durability.

The main issue with threading/suppressing a PX4 is that the rotational lock up system is unfriendly to threaded on devices such as cans or comps unless they are pinned in place.

[Storm SD]

That is a very long process for someone that shoots 2x week. How often do you do the cleaning you described?

The extensive process of bore cleaning that I described is done around every 2,000 to 2,400 rounds. I usually shoot 400 rounds per week, so I end up doing that cleaning every 5 to 6 weeks. This is done as part of my full cleaning protocol in which I use solvent (Hoppe’s #9), skewers, and paper towels to clean as much carbon off of the slide and frame as I can get to. In addition to this cleaning, I do a “range cleaning” after each shooting session (200 rounds), and a field cleaning like what you described in “My PX 4 .45 ACP cleaning protocols” every 800 rounds. My “range cleaning” is done at my business after leaving the range. My range pistol is not my carry pistol. I am not going to load it with self defense ammo, so I don’t worry about getting it clean before I leave the range.

[Storm SD]

Nothing, maybe once a year in fall I'll give them a simple green bath and blast of brake cleaner; then punch the barrel, lube, and re-assemble. I know some enjoy cleaning in a meditative way but I don't see the purpose as we are in the 21st century and most reputable service pistols will run just fine.

I really do not enjoy cleaning, but I do like to see my pistol clean and enjoy it much more when it is functioning flawlessly. I was curious how many rounds you put through your pistols each year before you do the process of simple green, brake cleaner, and re-lube that you described?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Signs of long term wear


24201



This area is where the barrel rotates when the slide goes forward. The barrel lug does not directly ride on these contact points, but instead pulls away as it rotates forward. The wear comes when the pistol is fired and vibration, combined with slight lateral shaking of the barrel contacts the polymer buffering.

Prognosis? It should not affect anything, as the gap is smaller than the lug’s dimensions and the remaining polymer will still cushion. If not, the barrel and rails might show wear over time to the finish. If, through long term exposure, the rails are worn from the barrel’s contact, it could weaken the rails and cause a safety issue or terminate the pistol’s usability.

Time will tell. I’ll keep close tabs on it. Long duration usage of the PX4 .45 is still uncharted territory, as far as I can find.


Equipment update


After more than 5,000 rounds this area has not changed at all. No additional wear, no spreading of polymer decay. Action remains as smooth as glass and reliability is perfect. I got through the problematic ammo reported in post #130 of this thread and function is back to flawless.

@31,174 rounds the slide rebound spring was changed prematurely. So, a new one was installed @35,900.

Pistol round count 36,200

[That Guy]

I really do not enjoy cleaning, but I do like to see my pistol clean and enjoy it much more when it is functioning flawlessly.

Have you tried a more modern solvent? M-Pro Gun Cleaner and Boretech Carbon Remover are two products I've had good success with.

[farscott]

My magazine cleaning protocol differs with the magazine’s assignment.

There are many that espouse the practice of putting a light coat of oil in there. I do not. When you talk with gun manufacturers they will sing the “light coat of oil” anthem about everything. But... when you talk to ammunition manufacturers they will say, “just say No to oils near ammo”. I have always hoped that gun companies and ammo companies could sit down together and share notes. Also note that the PX4 owners manual says not to get oil on your ammo. It could cause malfunctions or excessive chamber pressure. (So don’t oil that center bar of your slide that sits on your loaded mag).

I have performed some very informal tests with good-quality ammo and oiled magazines. I spray a bit of CLP on a rag and wipe down the magazine. Then the magazine is loaded and set aside for a month. Then the magazine is used. I have never had an issue with any ammo, neither ignition issues or excessive velocity distributions. I have torn down magazines, looking for where the oil goes and what crud gets mixed with it, and I have seen very little debris unless I use too much lube.

As such, my personal belief is use enough lube to protect the magazine from corrosion caused by use (just a thin film), but not so much as for the guts of the magazine to attract and hold dust and lint. In sandy environments, any lube seems to be a dust magnet and is not suitable for magazines.

On blued magazines or in sandy environments, I have also used Renaissance Wax as it does a good job of protecting without attracting any dust and lint. NP3 metal finish also is awesome here as is the Beretta sand-resistant finish.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have performed some very informal tests with good-quality ammo and oiled magazines. I spray a bit of CLP on a rag and wipe down the magazine. Then the magazine is loaded and set aside for a month. Then the magazine is used. I have never had an issue with any ammo, neither ignition issues or excessive velocity distributions. I have torn down magazines, looking for where the oil goes and what crud gets mixed with it, and I have seen very little debris unless I use too much lube.

As such, my personal belief is use enough lube to protect the magazine from corrosion caused by use (just a thin film), but not so much as for the guts of the magazine to attract and hold dust and lint. In sandy environments, any lube seems to be a dust magnet and is not suitable for magazines.

On blued magazines or in sandy environments, I have also used Renaissance Wax as it does a good job of protecting without attracting any dust and lint. NP3 metal finish also is awesome here as is the Beretta sand-resistant finish.

Excellent information, thanks!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have performed some very informal tests with good-quality ammo and oiled magazines. I spray a bit of CLP on a rag and wipe down the magazine. Then the magazine is loaded and set aside for a month. Then the magazine is used. I have never had an issue with any ammo, neither ignition issues or excessive velocity distributions. I have torn down magazines, looking for where the oil goes and what crud gets mixed with it, and I have seen very little debris unless I use too much lube.

As such, my personal belief is use enough lube to protect the magazine from corrosion caused by use (just a thin film), but not so much as for the guts of the magazine to attract and hold dust and lint. In sandy environments, any lube seems to be a dust magnet and is not suitable for magazines.

On blued magazines or in sandy environments, I have also used Renaissance Wax as it does a good job of protecting without attracting any dust and lint. NP3 metal finish also is awesome here as is the Beretta sand-resistant finish.

I have been thinking about your information and it is good. Thanks for letting us copy off your homework. It seems that the oil usage is backed by shooting off the defense loads after a month, at least in your testing.

If I were to fire off my defense loads that are in magazines each month, I would have to fire off and then replace about 83 .45 HSTs +P, 85 9mm HSTs +P, 14 SV 9mm HSTs & 28 .40 HSTs. I would go broke! I also do not want to shoot that many +Ps.

Your idea about wax has caught my interest. I will research more on that. We have 51 magazines that would be quite expensive to NP3 (plus I like blue).

So, I will include your information when starting new shooters, as a viable option. But, I’ve gone all these years with no corrosion and no magazine problems, so I am not ready to try it, but you have shown me that it might not be detrimental. It is good knowledge, thanks.

[Storm SD]

Have you tried a more modern solvent? M-Pro Gun Cleaner and Boretech Carbon Remover are two products I've had good success with.

The only other cleaner that I have tried is KG1. It worked well, but as PX4 Storm Tracker pointed out in this thread, the KG1 leaves a white film (like soap residue) on the slide. That limited its use to just cleaning the bore. When I looked into the M-Pro 7 gun cleaner, I noticed that they claimed that it would damage oil based factory finishes. The potential for finish damage caused me to not look further into using it because it would also be limited to only cleaning the bore. My slide is cerakoted, but I did not want to risk any damage to the finish. I’m not opposed to having a separate bore cleaner if it cleans with a greater efficiency to a degree that would offset other factors, such as time cleaning, expense, and availability. I haven’t looked at the Boretech Carbon Remover. If you have used Hoppe’s #9, I’d be interested in your comparison of it to the products you have mentioned with pros and cons of each. Thank you for your feedback on this subject.

[That Guy]

If you have used Hoppe’s #9

Unfortunately Hoppe's is not a commonly available cleaning product over here, so I have no direct experience with it.

I really doubt M-Pro would negatively affect any steel or polymer part. I certainly have never seen that happen with any gun I've used it on. (I ran out a couple of years ago and switched to Boretech, so I don't have direct experience with M-Pro gun cleaner on a PX4. Still though.) I do know from unfortunate experience that you do need to be careful with that product around wood stocks (also, any furniture made of wood, or wood floors for that matter, or...) as M-Pro will easily dissolve any sort of protective lacquer coating. Which is probably what the factory warning meant. There really is nothing to be concerned about when using any sort of commercial cleaning product on the inside of your barrel, they're not going to dissolve steel.

As for M-Pro versus Boretech, the M-Pro comes in a spray bottle (which is something I dislike) and does not have quite the same ability to dissolve carbon deposits. On the other hand it leaves no residue behind. The Boretech product is a slightly better solvent, and it comes in a better bottle. It does leave a somewhat sticky film if you leave it on parts (Boretech says this product can be used to protect metal parts against corrosion, at least during short term storage), so you do need to make sure you wipe it all off. This can also make it a bit more of an effort when pushing that first dry patch down especially a rifle bore. Personally, I just go with the one that comes in a better bottle, ie. Boretech. The differences are not that great. If the Boretech product would happen to be unavailable the next time I have to buy a bottle of solvent, I'd happily go with M-Pro and not give it a second thought.

[Storm SD]

Unfortunately Hoppe's is not a commonly available cleaning product over here, so I have no direct experience with it.

I really doubt M-Pro would negatively affect any steel or polymer part. I certainly have never seen that happen with any gun I've used it on. (I ran out a couple of years ago and switched to Boretech, so I don't have direct experience with M-Pro gun cleaner on a PX4. Still though.) I do know from unfortunate experience that you do need to be careful with that product around wood stocks (also, any furniture made of wood, or wood floors for that matter, or...) as M-Pro will easily dissolve any sort of protective lacquer coating. Which is probably what the factory warning meant. There really is nothing to be concerned about when using any sort of commercial cleaning product on the inside of your barrel, they're not going to dissolve steel.

As for M-Pro versus Boretech, the M-Pro comes in a spray bottle (which is something I dislike) and does not have quite the same ability to dissolve carbon deposits. On the other hand it leaves no residue behind. The Boretech product is a slightly better solvent, and it comes in a better bottle. It does leave a somewhat sticky film if you leave it on parts (Boretech says this product can be used to protect metal parts against corrosion, at least during short term storage), so you do need to make sure you wipe it all off. This can also make it a bit more of an effort when pushing that first dry patch down especially a rifle bore. Personally, I just go with the one that comes in a better bottle, ie. Boretech. The differences are not that great. If the Boretech product would happen to be unavailable the next time I have to buy a bottle of solvent, I'd happily go with M-Pro and not give it a second thought.

That is good information to consider. Thanks.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Storm SD , I know that you practice emergency reloads (slide lock reloads) when you practice. But, do you actually carry a back-up mag with you all the time?
If so, how many?

[Storm SD]

Storm SD , I know that you practice emergency reloads (slide lock reloads) when you practice. But, do you actually carry a back-up mag with you all the time?
If so, how many?

Currently, I do not carry a backup mag on me. At work, I do keep a loaded spare magazine at my desk. I did recently order a horizontal magazine pouch. It is scheduled to arrive Tuesday. I plan to carry one back up magazine in it (it is a single mag pouch). I practice with a vertical magazine pouch. I will begin taking my horizontal magazine pouch to the range to get used to quickly accessing the spare magazine in the same position that I will actually carry it.

[Storm SD]

This thread is about high rounds on the PX 4 Storm .45. Putting that many rounds down range, with most of that on my outdoor range, means a lot of spent brass. Each session will leave between 500 and 800 rounds of brass on the ground. We used to pick it all up by hand and this would take quite a bit of time. Since the range is outdoors, I can’t just sweep up the brass. I borrowed a nut gatherer to try and see if we could use it to pick up brass more quickly. The wires were too far apart and I would lose brass out of it as fast as I gained it. However, it seemed to be a good idea, so I bought the small size of nut gatherer called the “weasel nut gatherer”. This has worked very well and saves us a lot of time. I would estimate that it takes ¼ of the amount of time to pick up brass with this piece of equipment.

25956

25957

This is the culprit for putting most of that brass on the ground. This PX 4 Storm .45 belongs to PX4 Storm Tracker. It has 36,500 rounds on it in this picture and still looks very nice.

25958

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This thread is about high rounds on the PX 4 Storm .45. Putting that many rounds down range, with most of that on my outdoor range, means a lot of spent brass. Each session will leave between 500 and 800 rounds of brass on the ground. We used to pick it all up by hand and this would take quite a bit of time. Since the range is outdoors, I can’t just sweep up the brass. I borrowed a nut gatherer to try and see if we could use it to pick up brass more quickly. The wires were too far apart and I would lose brass out of it as fast as I gained it. However, it seemed to be a good idea, so I bought the small size of nut gatherer called the “weasel nut gatherer”. This has worked very well and saves us a lot of time. I would estimate that it takes ¼ of the amount of time to pick up brass with this piece of equipment.

One can't easily tell from the picture, but the "brass broom" picked up 300 9mms today with the 500 .45s. So, this idea is good for those that use the more popular 9mm, as well.



Pistol round count 36,800

[Storm SD]

26086

My current round count for my SD is 22,643. Most of those rounds have been Winchester white box, but I have been trying the Sellier & Bellot 230 grain FMJ target loads. I’ve put 2,200 rounds of this ammo through the SD and have had 0 issues. When cleaning, I don’t notice any additional carbon build up when compared to the Winchester white box. I can get these for a very reasonable price and, so far, I have been quite pleased with their performance.

26087

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Most of those rounds have been Winchester white box, but I have been trying the Sellier & Bellot 230 grain FMJ target loads.

26087


Do you feel any difference in their report? Side by side, do they feel different?




Pistol round count 37,100

[Storm SD]

Do you feel any difference in their report? Side by side, do they feel different?




Pistol round count 37,100

It is very difficult for me to tell if there is a difference. I think the Sellier & Bellot ammo may produce slightly more recoil and be a little "hotter" load, but I have shot both Winchester white box and Sellier & Bellot back to back during the same shooting session and I noticed very little, if any, difference in the way they feel. I can often tell if there is a difference by where the brass accumulates on the range. For example, when you had some boxes of weak Winchester rounds, your brass was accumulating only a few feet behind you. Normally, they end up about 10 to 15 feet behind you. With that said, I found the brass in the same area for both brands. However, I have had a lot of inconsistencies with the Winchester white box ammo. Crimped cases and weak rounds have been common. I even had one in which the bullet was loaded backwards. I haven't had those inconsistencies with the Sellier & Bellot.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

26086

My current round count for my SD is 22,643.



You show a picture of wear progress of your slide, indicating that you have 22,643 rounds on it, but how many rounds do you have on the Cerakote finish?

[Storm SD]

You show a picture of wear progress of your slide, indicating that you have 22,643 rounds on it, but how many rounds do you have on the Cerakote finish?

The cerakote finish on the SD has 14,115 rounds on it so far. I think it has held up well.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have found there are advantages and disadvantages to each model and caliber. Many of those factors are related to their capabilities as an EDC. However, my decision to shoot the SD in .45 has little to do with that. I am known for being rough on things, so when I read about the PX4 Storm SD and its claimed durability, I thought it sounded like the perfect gun for me. (That may have been just a good excuse because I thought it looked cool). Since my time away from work is very limited, my shooting time has to serve for both practice and recreation. A lot of extra time spent cleaning can take the "recreation" out of shooting pretty quickly. I found the SD easier to clean compared to my other Storms. Also, there is a "fun factor" in shooting .45 that I don't feel as much with the others. The extra recoil makes it a little more challenging for me. As the round count on the SD has increased, I've also noticed that the PVD coated parts do show less wear than the same parts at the same round count on your full size PX4 Storm .45. So, it looks like it may actually live up to some of those durability claims. Overall, that PX4 Storm SD was a gun that I really liked and wanted from the first time I saw it, and I enjoy shooting it.

Many competitors with .45s will use reduced power loads and lighter rebound springs. You do not. Does shooting .45 ACP for 200 rounds per session, twice per week, hurt your hands, fingers, wrists or elbows?

[Storm SD]

Many competitors with .45s will use reduced power loads and lighter rebound springs. You do not. Does shooting .45 ACP for 200 rounds per session, twice per week, hurt your hands, fingers, wrists or elbows?

I had an issue in which my right wrist was sore and hurting a few months back. That is when I added the Talon Grips. They did seem to add a bit of cushion and create a better experience at the range, but I think the wrist issue was actually caused by typing on the computer too much. I added a wrist pad at work and the pain went away in a couple of days and has not returned. As far as any other discomforts from shooting the .45, I haven't had any. I think that you get used to what you use. I can understand that there are situation where this would not apply, but as for my situation, I am used to shooting the .45 PX4 Storm SD and it doesn't bother my hands, fingers, wrists, or elbows.

[Storm SD]

My round count for my PX4 Storm SD reached 23,043 on Saturday (5/12/2018). When I took the slide off, I noticed something different. I have a crack in the polymer on the frame. I mentioned it to PX4 Storm Tracker and he sent a picture of his full size PX4 Storm .45 with a crack in the polymer at the same spot. His also shows a wear mark (top arrow in the picture) from the trigger.

26303
Polymer crack in the SD

26304
Bottom arrow shows the polymer crack in the full size PX4 Storm .45 in the same spot as is on the SD.

I'd like to know if anyone else has had this issue.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My round count for my PX4 Storm SD reached 23,043 on Saturday (5/12/2018). When I took the slide off, I noticed something different. I have a crack in the polymer on the frame. I mentioned it to PX4 Storm Tracker and he sent a picture of his full size PX4 Storm .45 with a crack in the polymer at the same spot.

I'd like to know if anyone else has had this issue.

Additional note- The crack in mine has been there and unchanged for about 7,000 rounds. It does not seem to affect function nor has it increased.



Pistol round count 37,700

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Going out sight seeing?


There is a difference that I have observed in tracking the front sight on a PX4 .45 compared to a PX4 in .40 or 9mm, a Compact or SubCompact. The difference is not just the “amount” of recoil, but the nature of it.

A description of the difference in feel IMO is a 9mm will pop up very slightly and settle back in place quickly. The .40 pops up farther and is snappier, then settles down again. The .45 will pop up a little farther yet and more solidly, while pushing everything back as well.

A noticeable difference (if not compensated for) would be that a 9 or .40 will pop up and come back down to the same spot, if your grip is consistent. A .45 will come down again, but elsewhere if your grip is not adapted to this type of recoil.


I have adapted my grip and arm positions to .45 so as to not prejudice trigger pull pressure or direction because of a different recoil. I am able to rapid fire with good accuracy and speed. I have to use a different firing technique for 9 or .40. My point being that adaptation can be trained in, but it might be discouraging to a new person used to a 9 and finding the same shooting technique does not get as good of a result.


Just sharing information, not a recommendation either way. This is not about how to grip a pistol. There are many professional instructors available to teach that. I’m just pointing out that there is a difference that requires a different approach to recoil management.


Pistol round count 38,000

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Updates: Small part breakage & maintenance update


When I got home from the range today I took my slide off to do a field cleaning. As I wiped the rear left rail area of the frame I heard a small metal something hit the floor. I figured, that can’t be good. The head of the lever pin broke off.


26631


I always keep spare parts and had 2 new ones and 2 spare o-rings. I was planning to disassemble the entire pistol @40,000 rounds, but @38,900 it was close enough. With the head of the pin missing there would be nothing to solidly keep the pin from drifting. This could cause the firing pin block plunger lever to misalign or come off. Or worse- loss of levers and slide binding. Not smart to risk. So, I disassembled the frame a little early and did the full detail cleaning and replaced the lever pin, o-ring and hammer pin.

Since the action is so well worn and polished to itself, now that it is clean and relubed inside, I have a 6 lb DA trigger pull and a 3 lb 10 oz SA.


Pistol round count 38,900

[Storm SD]

26640

This is a picture of a new lever pin and o-ring next to the broken one from PX4 Storm Tracker's pistol in reference to the prior post.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This is a picture of a new lever pin and o-ring next to the broken one from PX4 Storm Tracker's pistol in reference to the prior post.

It can be clearly seen in this photo that the weak spot was the indent for the o-ring. When removing and replacing this part in the past, it came out easily and was reinserted easily. The new o-ring required a hit with a hammer and punch. I have specially designed blocks of wood that Storm SD made me that allow me to put pressure on it without incorrectly stressing the hammer frame unit.
Perhaps a fresh o-ring occasionally would prevent stress to the indented area.

Additional editor's note: on post #210, I replaced the hammer pin spring, not the pin.

[Storm SD]

26645

This is the lever pin on my SD at 10,726 rounds. You can see that the o-ring is starting to look "pinched" or compressed.

26646

This is the lever pin on my SD at 20,028 rounds. If you look closely, you can see one portion of the o-ring that looks pressed out like it is herniated. The rest of the o-rings looks like it has been worn flat.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

This is the lever pin on my SD at 10,726 rounds. You can see that the o-ring is starting to look "pinched" or compressed.

This is the lever pin on my SD at 20,028 rounds. If you look closely, you can see one portion of the o-ring that looks pressed out like it is herniated. The rest of the o-rings looks like it has been worn flat.

It appears that we have a new conclusion for maintenance. I plan to change o-rings every 10,000 rounds, when doing the frame detail cleaning. It should also reduce wear on the hammer drop lever and firing pin block plunger lever by reason of less vibration.

This may not be necessary for all PX4 Storms, but .45s have much more vibration and "kick" that make for additional maintenance needs.

[Canyonrat]

Px4 .45 gurus, do you have any idea if it is safe to fire 45 Super ammo from this gun, or can it be modified with a stronger spring to support it? BTW thanks for all the detailed info in this thread.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Px4 .45 gurus, do you have any idea if it is safe to fire 45 Super ammo from this gun, or can it be modified with a stronger spring to support it? BTW thanks for all the detailed info in this thread.

Thanks for the positive feedback!

I would not recommend using .45 Super in a PX4 Storm. Though the external dimensions are the same with this cartridge, it is designed to work up to 35,000 PSI. While the .45 Super does have a stiffer case with a denser lower support, that is not enough to shield the slide, frame and cam block. A stiffer spring could help absorb shock to the frame, but the cam will go through its motion before that protection helps it. The .45 Super is designed for a pistol with a specifically supported chamber wall.

I normally avoid using +P ammo frequently to enhance long term duration and it is not chambered to pressures like the .45 Super.

I would strongly recommend against using .45 Super in a Storm. Good velocities could be reached with adjusting bullet weight and +P variations, but even +Ps are less comfortable to shoot a lot (IMO).


Pistol round count 40,100

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

40,100 rounds


Hit 40,100 rounds yesterday. Pistol continues functioning perfectly.

I disassembled the slide and cleaned all internal parts and the firing pin channel. No new pins, parts or springs needed this time.

However, as the decocker levers get older (this is the 8th time the slide has been disassembled) the pin’s holes become polished. Some pins fit slightly tighter than others. I keep a lot of spares. It will take a week of shooting (about 600-700 rounds) for me to be sure the pin won’t need to be replaced. If it stays put and does not drift, it’s good.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Px4 .45 gurus, do you have any idea if it is safe to fire 45 Super ammo from this gun, or can it be modified with a stronger spring to support it? BTW thanks for all the detailed info in this thread.

More data on the use of .45 Super:


The PX4 Storm .45 is chambered for a PSI maximum of 23,000 (or 160 megapascals). A standard velocity .45 ACP round is about 21,000 PSI (145 MPa) and a +P around 23,000 (156 MPa).

A .45 Super averages 28,000 PSI (193 MPa) and can go to 35,000 PSI (around 241 MPa).

[Storm SD]

Update:
Here are a couple of nice photos taken this morning of PX4 Storm Tracker's .45 @ 40,100 rounds:

27057

27058

Though I didn't get a current photo, my PX4 Storm SD is now at 24,643 rounds.

[Canyonrat]

Thanks, even more details in the reply of course!! Awesome. And the look of your worn-in 40k Storm is a well-earned patina, not easily replicated. Great look.

[beenalongtime]

40,100 rounds


However, as the decocker levers get older (this is the 8th time the slide has been disassembled) the pin’s holes become polished. Some pins fit slightly tighter than others. I keep a lot of spares. It will take a week of shooting (about 600-700 rounds) for me to be sure the pin won’t need to be replaced. If it stays put and does not drift, it’s good.

Do you just brownell's the tension pins, or have you found good ones elsewhere? My second PX4, I had two factory pin's do different things; one mushroomed, and the second one the center just started spiraling out of it. Ended up taking to the gunsmilth after trying some from a local hardware store. (cheap, both ways)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Do you just brownell's the tension pins, or have you found good ones elsewhere? My second PX4, I had two factory pin's do different things; one mushroomed, and the second one the center just started spiraling out of it. Ended up taking to the gunsmilth after trying some from a local hardware store. (cheap, both ways)

I have tried taking the actual measurements of the pin and looking for blank pins or a substitute. I was not able to find anything better. Brownells is an offiical parts distributor for Beretta and their parts come from Beretta. That is our main source.

Midwest Gun Works https://www.midwestgunworks.com/beretta/gun-parts.html is also an official Beretta parts distributor. They even do repairs for Beretta when sending it to Beretta is less advantageous geographically. We are ordering some pins from them to see. I have only had 1 of 10 pins drift loose. I think that whichever distributor sends us the pins, they will still be from Beretta.

I have not experienced the type of pin mishaps you described. If the punch is the correct size and type and the holes for both levers are exactly aligned, it should be an easy insertion. We did once receive a pin for the SD that was very oversized. So, I always order spares.

There is also usually one end of the pin that is tapered for easier insertion.


Pistol round count 40,400

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Do you just brownell's the tension pins, or have you found good ones elsewhere? My second PX4, I had two factory pin's do different things; one mushroomed, and the second one the center just started spiraling out of it. Ended up taking to the gunsmilth after trying some from a local hardware store. (cheap, both ways)

The pin held just fine. I put that pin in @30,000 rounds, took it out @35,200 for interior slide cleaning, put the same pin back in and now removed it and reinstalled it @40,100 for an interior slide cleaning. For an older set of levers, that is good pin duration. It is more apparent that bad pins are the anomaly and not the frequent expectation.

Also, they are cheap enough that ordering spares consumes less time and energy. I've only had pins walk in .45.



Pistol round count 40,700

[Holg]

My question might not be best for this thread but I didn't see one for the 40 S&W. I've been wanting to get a PX4 and noticed some Police Trade Ins in 40 cal for $250. Any issues with these or should I just go ahead and pay the extra $$ for a 9mm?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My question might not be best for this thread but I didn't see one for the 40 S&W. I've been wanting to get a PX4 and noticed some Police Trade Ins in 40 cal for $250. Any issues with these or should I just go ahead and pay the extra $$ for a 9mm?

Holg, Your questions are welcome! There is a thread on the .40 PX4 https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29800-Beretta-PX4-Storm-full-size-40-Middle-child-or-Workhorse

However, to answer your question: Both I and Storm SD that participate in reporting on the PX4 .45 have .40s, as well. Storm SD carries one as his EDC. I use mine at the range and for defensive purposes. They are both full size.

We have found that the PX4 .40 is outstanding in reliability, accuracy and durability. Though it may be opinionated, the defensive capabilities of 15 (14 +1) 180 grn Federal HSTs (or another preferred round) are hard to argue with.

If I found Police trade-ins for $250 I would jump on that. The caveat would be their condition. We've had 4 PX4s in .40 and the older ones worked as well as the new ones. Cosmetic condition might be an issue, as holstering might leave scratches. I would suggest a new slide rebound spring if you don't know the round count.

Straight up... the PX4 .40 is an excellent pistol and not inferior to the 9mm sibling. It would be a matter of if you enjoy shooting .40s. I do.

We also installed a low profile slide catch and levers kit to convert ours to type G and installed a D spring.

If the cosmetic condition is poor, if you find you really like it, you could always Cerakote, Rogard or KG Gunkote at a later time. You can also send it to Beretta for a refinishing of the Bruniton it came with.



Pistol round count 41,000

[That Guy]

A .45 Super averages 28,000 PSI (193 MPa) and can go to 35,000 PSI (around 241 MPa).

Excellent information. Minor nitpick: isn't 35000 PSI .460 Rowland territory? What I've understood is 28000 PSI is the specified maximum pressure of the .45 Super and 35000 PSI the specified maximum pressure of .460 Rowland.

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Excellent information. Minor nitpick: isn't 35000 PSI .460 Rowland territory? What I've understood is 28000 PSI is the specified maximum pressure of the .45 Super and 35000 PSI the specified maximum pressure of .460 Rowland.

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk


Interesting point. The .460 Rowland is actually chambered to 40,000 PSI and has a longer case so that it can't be loaded into a standard .45 pistol. The bullet is seated back to give the same overall length, but the casing will prevent chambering in a pistol not made for it.
The average maximum PSI for a .45 Super is 28,000 PSI, but it is capable of being loaded to produce 35,000 PSI.

[Storm SD]

I passed the 25,000 round mark on the SD this week. It had 25,052 rounds on it and it was time for a complete slide cleaning. I disassembled the slide and thoroughly cleaned the firing pin, firing pin plunger, firing pin channel, the extractor and springs, decocker levers and spring and the firing pin block plunger and spring. I clean the slide like this around every 5,000 rounds. I am providing pictures of the parts prior to being cleaned and after being cleaned to assess the amount of carbon build up and the amount of wear. Also, the cerakote was applied to the slide at 8,528 rounds and you can see how it is holding up.

Before cleaning:
27376

27377

After cleaning:
27378

27379

Pistol round count as of today: 25,252

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Update: Range ammo change


In post #130 on page 13 of this thread I reported on some problems with Winchester White Box 230 grn FMJ range ammo.

I have been using WWB (Winchester White Box) in .45 for a very long time. I put over 15,000 rounds of it through my Ruger P345s and over 43,000 rounds of it through my PX4 .45s. These last 3 or 4 months the quality and consistency have gone down hill.
I had been getting 1 or 2 that lacked the power to throw the slide back well each shooting session. When I shoot I want to focus on shooting skills and enjoyment, not ammo issues.
Last Saturday, while shooting, Storm SD had a WWB round so weak that it sounded like only a primer. He knew to stop, unload, come off the line, go to the loading table and disassemble to check if it was a squib. It was not, but not by much.

We have tried to work with Winchester Customer Service to see if they stand behind their product. They take a month to call back, then require lot numbers and box numbers and after sending them back your ammo for testing, they might send you a half box to full box (50 pack) for all of your labor. Not worth the time and effort.


So, I’ve switched to Federal Champion 230 grn target loads. So far they work great! Recoil impulse is smoother and consistent. Accuracy is excellent. They run much cleaner than WWB. My front sight can even go 10x as long without being wiped off.

The more expensive Federal American Eagle has advantages, but not enough to justify the price difference for me. The American Eagle (AE) are either copper plated or copper cup filled, it will vary with lots. The Champions are copper plated, slightly thinner. I ran hundreds of Champions through with no leading or any evidence of problems with a pistol with no compensator.
Federal requires AE to print a 3.5” group @50 yards through a 5” test barrel. The Champions are required to have a 4” group @50 yards. Not much difference for mostly 25 yards or closer work.

Of the less than 1,000 rounds of Champions I’ve tested, only 1 mishap. A primer that would not ignite. I considered a light firing pin strike, but ruled that out. I tried 4 DA hits, 3 SA hits, waited a few minutes to make sure it was not a hang-fire, then we put it in Storm SD’s pistol and he hammered away on it DA & SA. Nothing. Maxwell’s silver hammer could not have ignited that thing. I have found that that has occurred occasionally with these, but extremely rarely. Time will tell. It seemed to be traced back to the primer pocket depth.

The Champions that I’ve gotten use small pistol primers. I don’t reload, so it doesn’t matter to me. They are supposed to burn cleaner and have better case strength. It is also supposed to be an advantage to those that load different calibers, to not change primer dies. Nevertheless, they work well so far. If not, it won’t take long to find out at 600-700 rounds per week.



Pistol round count, 41,600

[Storm SD]

Here are a couple of more pictures of my SD from my last slide disassembly and cleaning at 25,052 rounds. The purpose of the pictures is to show the more obvious places of wear. I will provide a close up picture of the inside of the slide after the disassembly. Also, I will include a close up picture of the frame for the same purpose.

27652

27653

Pistol round count, 25,652

[David S.]

Not .45 specific, how is the FDE finish holding up compared to the factory black?

[Storm SD]

Not .45 specific, how is the FDE finish holding up compared to the factory black?

The frame for the PX4 Storm SD is FDE from the factory. Since the polymer is actually that color all the way through, there is nothing to wear off and it is holding up as well as a factory black frame. The lighter color FDE does show carbon accumulation more easily than the black, so I clean it off regularly, but it cleans up well. As for the FDE cerakote on the slide, I had 8,528 rounds on the gun when I had the slide cerakoted. I've put 17,124 rounds on it since the cerakote. The factory bruniton seems to hold up a little better than the cerakote. They seem to wear differently. The bruniton seems to gradually wear down, whereas the cerakote appears to chip off in tiny increments. The inside of my slide at 25,052 rounds can be seen in the pictures above. I am going to add a picture here of PX4 Storm Trackers slide at 25,000 rounds and 40,000 rounds for comparison.

27684

This is PX4 Storm Tracker's slide at 25,200 rounds. This is a good picture to compare to my slide at 25,052 rounds, though the finish only has 17,124 rounds at that point.

27685

This is PX4 Storm Tracker's slide at 40,100 rounds. It shows less wear at over 40,000 rounds than mine at 17,124.
With that being said, I am still pleased with the cerakote. Though not as well as the factory bruniton, it is still wearing well in my opinion.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

23151[/ATTACH]
23152


David S. , Another Cerakote concern is this: Small parts. Last week after cleaning my wife’s Compact, she reassembled and the slide would not stay on. The disassemble latch, which is Cerakoted, was stuck down.
We took the frame and washed in there from the side with Beretta CLP oil and blew it out with an air can. Rinse, repeat... A bunch of colored gunk came out. Afterwards is was fine and 305 rounds of testing.. still fine. It had only been in place for 10,470 rounds, while my .45 went 20,300 with no issue.

Cerakote tends to wear off in small particles, where Bruniton (original Beretta finish) does not. Cerakote gets its name for being a ceramic. Our observations have been that Cerakote is tough on the outside against holster wear, but metal on metal rubbing inside.. not as much.



Pistol round count 41,900

[Storm SD]

This may be the best set of comparison photos that I can come up with in order to compare the Beretta factory Bruniton and Cerakote. The FDE slide is my PX4 Storm SD 17,124 rounds after being Cerakoted. The black slide belongs to PX4 Storm Tracker and is a picture of his .45 with the factory Bruniton after 17,050 rounds.

27687

SD @ 17,124 rounds with Cerakote

27688

PX4 Storm Tracker's .45 @ 17,050 rounds with factory Bruniton

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another Cerakote concern is this: Small parts. Last week after cleaning my wife’s Compact, she reassembled and the slide would not stay on. The disassemble latch, which is Cerakoted, was stuck down.



More on Cerakote problems:


After disassembling our Compact to clean the disassembly latch and channel, we found that the wear and creating of burrs was exceptional. This latch had only 10,775 rounds on it and looked more torn up and worn through than the latch from my .45 that I replaced after 31,192 rounds.

To clarify my previous post (233)- the latch from my .45 went 20,300 rounds before being removed for cleaning, then it was replaced @31,192 (page 12, post 112 of this thread). Even then, it was still working well. I keep it as a spare.

The technician that did the Cerakote on Storm SD ‘s .45 also did our Compact. He is a certified Cerakote technician and does good, smart work. He has a lot of experience. This seems to be a Cerakote characteristic, from our limited experience.

Storm SD has a picture of the Compact’s latch next to my .45’s retired latch with 3 times the round count and more vibration exposure.


Pistol round count 42,200

[Storm SD]

This is the picture that PX4 Storm Tracker is referring to in the previous post.

27733

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

My other PX4 Storm .45 G



This is the PX4 .45 that is my EDC. I’ve mentioned it before in previous posts. The PX4 .45 that gets the attention in this thread is the range pistol that I practice with and beat up on at the range. The range pistol takes the abuse so that the EDC remains ready if needed.

In the picture are other items that make up my EDC tools. A Cold Steel Voyager 5.5” clip point, a CS 4” tanto Voyager (for lefty needs), a flashlight and normally 2 spare mags. 1 Federal HST featured. I also have an expendable tiny knife for actually cutting strings, boxes or anything else. Self defense knives are never used.


Pistol round count here 2,086


27792

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Round count is now 44,000 on my range PX4 .45 and it’s running as smoothly as ever. The Federal Champions are doing well and running cleaner. 30’ groups from standing tactical position stay in a 1.5” square, right handed and left, if I do my job.
@45,000 it will get a slide disassembly for detailed cleaning.

My PX4 .45 EDC has a little over a year on its slide rebound spring. I replaced it and will use the old one in the range pistol when it is due @45,700 or so. I’ll see if I can get 3,000-4,000 rounds out of it and save a little money on a new spring.

Storm SD ‘s .45 SD has 26,852 rounds on it.

Our PX4 Compact 9mm reached 17,050 rounds and we did a 100% disassembly of the slide and frame for detailed cleaning and assigned it to temporary EDC work. It got a new hammer strut pin (the old one just fell out), a new decocker lever pin, extractor pin and hammer pin spring.

Meanwhile, we will use our PX4 SubCompact 9mm as a range pistol until it hits 10,000 rounds (@7,919 now) and do a 100% disassembly of the slide and frame for detailed cleaning and put it back on EDC duty with new springs, as needed. Sub runs perfectly.

[Storm SD]

I was cleaning my PX4 Storm SD this week and noticed a small piece of polymer missing on the inside of the frame. I remembered seeing a picture that PX4 Storm Tracker posted at #119 on this thread that looked almost identical to what I was seeing on my SD. His polymer piece was blown out when his barrel cracked. I took my barrel out and began to examine it. There is a small crack in the cam channel of the barrel like what PX4 Storm Tracker experienced with his. My round count is 27,282. I am sending it back to Beretta for repairs.

Crack in the cam channel running through the indentation.
28734

Polymer missing along the rail with the metal frame underneath exposed.
28735

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

45,000 rounds...


My PX4 Storm .45G range pistol is now at 45,000 rounds. I did a slide disassembly and detailed cleaning, as scheduled. It got a new decocker lever pin.
I decided to put in a new slide rebound spring 700 rounds early. The old one felt too soft. I put in the 1 year old guide rod assembly from my EDC to squeeze a few thousand rounds out of it.


As to Storm SD ‘s barrel cracking... this is worth watching. His cracked @~27,000 and mine @~31,000. If this is indicative of .45 barrels only going around 30,000 rounds, we will want to know. If this is indicative of a batch of older style barrels that were not as sturdy as newer ones... time will tell. His pistol was made almost the same year as mine.

The crack in the SD barrel is smaller because he learned from my experience. He saw a little indication and knew where to look. Hopefully, this thread can be of use to others, as well.

If this is a pattern of barrel longevity (or lack thereof) perhaps Beretta will take heed and enhance the product. As far as I know Storm SD and I are the pioneers in PX4 .45 high round counts. I have searched for any other shooters sharing anything on this subject and don’t find.

We will continue to post honest observations.

[Storm SD]

I got my PX4 Storm SD back from Beretta this week. They replaced the barrel. I put 200 rounds on it today and it worked flawlessly. I've used my Ruger P345 on the range for the last couple of weeks and though it provided some enjoyable range time, it was still nice to have the SD back today. I am including a couple of pictures of the new barrel. My current round count for the SD is 27,500.

29531

29532

[revchuck38]

Storm SD:
I got my PX4 Storm SD back from Beretta this week. They replaced the barrel.

Did they replace it under warranty or did you have to pay for it? My guess is the latter since it's several years old.

[Storm SD]

revchuck38

"Did they replace it under warranty or did you have to pay for it? My guess is the latter since it's several years old."

You are correct. They did not replace it under warranty and I did have to pay for it. It was over 3 years old and was no longer in warranty. I purchased it new at the beginning of 2015, so it was past the warranty by about 6 months.

[Nephrology]

revchuck38

"Did they replace it under warranty or did you have to pay for it? My guess is the latter since it's several years old."

You are correct. They did not replace it under warranty and I did have to pay for it. It was over 3 years old and was no longer in warranty. I purchased it new at the beginning of 2015, so it was past the warranty by about 6 months.

I would be pretty unhappy about that. <30k rounds is very early for a barrel to die, and they are relatively expensive to replace...

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I would be pretty unhappy about that. <30k rounds is very early for a barrel to die, and they are relatively expensive to replace...

I completely agree with that! Add that an SD barrel is even more expensive that the standard variant...


I have 15,726 rounds on my replacement barrel. I am hoping this does not have to be dealt with again.



Pistol round count 46,900

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I would be pretty unhappy about that. <30k rounds is very early for a barrel to die, and they are relatively expensive to replace...

I would also point out, that if one were curious and looked at the price of a replacement barrel on Brownells or Midwest, for example, you would be set back by the price, plus shipping and taxes (in some cases). Then, add labor to headspace and install... it is not a good deal.

However, Beretta does not charge retail price for the barrel and the labor is 1/2 hour. Total cost to send it in to Beretta is way less (all told) than buying a barrel yourself.

[Nephrology]

I would also point out, that if one were curious and looked at the price of a replacement barrel on Brownells or Midwest, for example, you would be set back by the price, plus shipping and taxes (in some cases). Then, add labor to headspace and install... it is not a good deal.

However, Beretta does not charge retail price for the barrel and the labor is 1/2 hour. Total cost to send it in to Beretta is way less (all told) than buying a barrel yourself.

The PX4 series barrel isn't a drop-in part?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The PX4 series barrel isn't a drop-in part?

The barrel could be a “drop in” part, but isn’t always. Machining tolerances should be close or right on. However, if tolerances of the slide or the barrel are off it will be unsafe.

The process of headspacing checks or fits the mating alignment of the rear of the barrel to the slide’s breech face. This must be done in the locked position. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 post 38

If the space is too small, the rim and headstamp of the cartridge can’t load into the firing position. If the space is too large the primer will not receive a deep enough hit from the firing pin.

If one just drops it in, he might get away with it for a while until wear increases tolerances, or he might get away with it long term. Having Beretta do a headspacing assures a correct and safe fit.




Pistol round count 47,200

[Nephrology]

The barrel could be a “drop in” part, but isn’t always. Machining tolerances should be close or right on. However, if tolerances of the slide or the barrel are off it will be unsafe.

The process of headspacing checks or fits the mating alignment of the rear of the barrel to the slide’s breech face. This must be done in the locked position. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 post 38

If the space is too small, the rim and headstamp of the cartridge can’t load into the firing position. If the space is too large the primer will not receive a deep enough hit from the firing pin.

If one just drops it in, he might get away with it for a while until wear increases tolerances, or he might get away with it long term. Having Beretta do a headspacing assures a correct and safe fit.




Pistol round count 47,200

I'm familiar with headspacing, but that's something I usuall associate with swapping out rifle barrels. I've never heard of an OEM pistol barrel requiring headspacing to replace.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I'm familiar with headspacing, but that's something I usuall associate with swapping out rifle barrels. I've never heard of an OEM pistol barrel requiring headspacing to replace.

I was on that same page!

Some possibilities: It might be because a new barrel on a new slide is spec perfect. An older slide might have variations. Replacement barrels might favor slightly larger measurements, being they will probably mate with an old slide. It might be because the rotating barrel functions in a similar fashion to a rifle bolt. The barrel has a 45° rotation that must rub the breech face round. It is possible that this requires fitting to stay in contact evenly as it rotates.

For whatever cause, the need for headspacing was strongly recommended by the head Gunsmith @ Beretta. So, yes... new to me, also.