9mm railed 1911s - DW Specialist vs SA TRP/RO Elite

[Wake27]

SA apparently has a 9mm TRP coming at SHOT. I don’t know any details on it, so for my purposes, I’m going to assume it’ll be similar to the 5” 10mm model that they just released, because that is what I want. However, none of the guns have everything that I want, so at some point I’ll be sending it to a custom shop. My preference would be to send it to the shop of the manufacturer. The Colt is not in the running at all.

Here’s what I want and which guns have the features stock:

*Reliability and accuracy are a given
1. Black finish - all three
2. Flat trigger - none
3. Forward cocking serrations - both SA models
4. Magwell - TRP (hopefully) and DW
5. Flush cut and reverse crown - none
6. Front strap checkering - TRP and DW, though I don’t know how I feel about the TRP’s version if it’s that octo-stuff
7. Ledge style sights - DW and RO, TRP is unknown
8. Counter sunk slide stop - DW
9. Warranty - SA is great, DW sucks
10. RMR - none

Specialist: The most features I want out of the box, but at the upper limit of my budget for this gun. I have little doubt that the it is a better gun than the other two, and it has the edge in aesthetics, but even with military pricing it will probably still be a few hundred more than the TRP. If I didn’t plan on making any changes to the gun, I’d probably already own it. Since I am planning on it, I’m not crazy about spending more money up front. One option is to consider is the stainless version, though I’m not as crazy about it. I’d have to pay to reapply the duty treat after milling the FCS and RMR anyways. I know they had issues with falling in the past though. There is also a commander length, which I’m open to but have no idea which I’d prefer. Normally I’d lean towards a 5” 1911, but I’ve heard that 9mm commanders are a lot of fun.

RO Elite: Very attractive because it has nothing that I don’t care about, and a lot of what I want for the money. Since it’s still an SA gun and I already know that I’ll be sending it to a smith, I’m not overly worried about it being a cheaper model. My concern here is that I don’t know how long it’ll take me to send to a smith, especially with SACS being limited, so having more of the features that I want from the start is a plus. I’ve also heard one or two questionable things about their accuracy and some of the Lipsey’s Combat Operators had issues, which is concerning.

TRP: Caught in the middle. If it only comes with a bull barrel or an adjustable rear sight, then it’s out entirely. It’ll probably be close in price to the DW, so there’s the chance that if I do buy it, I’ll regret not paying a little more up front for a better gun overall. However, it’s well equipped from the factory, TRPs usually have an awesome reputation, and its backed by SA and SACS, and I don’t mind the price point too much.

Ultimately, my question mostly boils down to Dan Wessons’ customer service and their custom shop. I can’t find much online, but their CS seems hit or miss and I haven’t seen anything at all about their custom shop. I traded a few emails with a gunsmith there to get rough quotes. He answered some questions but not all so hopefully he’s better at gun smithing than CS. The fact that they don’t have a standard price list struck me as odd. SACS on the other hand has a great reputation and I have experience with them, but they are currently only accepting limited work. I should probably note that this will mainly be a range toy, but I’m not trying to buy something with questionable reliability front the factory. I’d appreciate any opinions.


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[Trooper224]

The TRP is a great bang for buck gun and the RO isn't too far behind. However, the DW is a significant step up in all areas. I've had two TRPs over the years and have two ROs in the safe, one in .45 and one in 9mm, that I used for competition when I was still running the 1911. I also have a DW Valor that was my last carry 1911. Get the Dan Wesson.

[JHC]

The TRP's front checkering has long been 20 LPI checkering. Not the "octo" treatment. It's very aggressive. I like that. But I never shot it 500 rounds/day either.

[shakazulu12]

Just a thought, already worked over for you and in your budget.

https://www.benchmark-precision.com/semi-custom-9mm-ro-operator.html

[TC215]

I’ve been shooting 9mm 1911’s since 2011 or 2012, and until a year or so they were what a shot primarily and carried on duty. I have a lot of rounds through them.

It’s no secret I like Dan Wesson, but I also own of have owned multiple Wilsons, Ed Browns, Baers, etc. In my opinion, if you want a 9mm 1911, DW or Wilson are the way to go. They seem to do them better than anyone else. The Springfield 9mm’s I have shot had issues.

I’ve had two Dan Wessons built by their custom shop. They are easily on par with my Browns and Wilsons, and much more affordable. I have a third on order right now.

I’ve never had an issue with their customer service. I’ve used them to get custom work done on guns I was sending in, to switch front sights out to fix POA/POI issues (which they do for free), and to fix the ambi safety on my Specialist that went bad after several years of duty use. They’ve been good to me, which is probably one of the reasons I keep buying their guns.

Also- DW started using flush cut/reverse crown barrels in 2016. If you get a new Specialist it will come with one.

I think the Specialist is one of the best deals there is. I doubt you can find another 1911 with those features (rail, magwell, ball cuts, Clark rib, flush cut/reverse crown barrel, handfit, etc) at that price.

If you want the LE/MIL pricelist, email Andrew at aeager@cz-USA.com.

[JHC]

Just a thought, already worked over for you and in your budget.

https://www.benchmark-precision.com/semi-custom-9mm-ro-operator.html

That's pretty neat.

[HopetonBrown]

The Warren Springfield 9mm that TLG had a brace of seemed to run fairly well for him.

[Wake27]

Just a thought, already worked over for you and in your budget.

https://www.benchmark-precision.com/semi-custom-9mm-ro-operator.html

I saw that before Christmas but haven’t been able to find it on the site since, including today. Not sure why.


I’ve been shooting 9mm 1911’s since 2011 or 2012, and until a year or so they were what a shot primarily and carried on duty. I have a lot of rounds through them.

It’s no secret I like Dan Wesson, but I also own of have owned multiple Wilsons, Ed Browns, Baers, etc. In my opinion, if you want a 9mm 1911, DW or Wilson are the way to go. They seem to do them better than anyone else. The Springfield 9mm’s I have shot had issues.

I’ve had two Dan Wessons built by their custom shop. They are easily on par with my Browns and Wilsons, and much more affordable. I have a third on order right now.

I’ve never had an issue with their customer service. I’ve used them to get custom work done on guns I was sending in, to switch front sights out to fix POA/POI issues (which they do for free), and to fix the ambi safety on my Specialist that went bad after several years of duty use. They’ve been good to me, which is probably one of the reasons I keep buying their guns.

Also- DW started using flush cut/reverse crown barrels in 2016. If you get a new Specialist it will come with one.

I think the Specialist is one of the best deals there is. I doubt you can find another 1911 with those features (rail, magwell, ball cuts, Clark rib, flush cut/reverse crown barrel, handfit, etc) at that price.

If you want the LE/MIL pricelist, email Andrew at aeager@cz-USA.com.

Thanks for that feedback, good to know. I’m surprised that I haven’t seen anything on the flush cut/crowning, you’re sure they do it on that model? I don’t have a requirement for the ball cuts but they do look nice. And I like how clean the slide is without all of the branding.


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[TC215]

Thanks for that feedback, good to know. I’m surprised that I haven’t seen anything on the flush cut/crowning, you’re sure they do it on that model? I don’t have a requirement for the ball cuts but they do look nice. And I like how clean the slide is without all of the branding.

It's my understanding that they made the switch on all the models, though it was never advertised.

Here's a pre-2016 9mm:

https://i.imgur.com/HLq05IF.jpg

And here are two I got in 2016:

https://i.imgur.com/OM2oOBz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RBQ2vGw.jpg

[HCM]

The Warren Springfield 9mm that TLG had a brace of seemed to run fairly well for him.

His did get good results from his but subsequent batches of Warren 9mm SA's had issues as did the first batch of Lipseys SA 9mm Combat Operators. That was supposed to be a TRP level gun done by SACS. Myself and two other PF members had issues requiring trips back to SA.

Even at the TRP level SA QC is hit or miss.

I recommend DW - particularly since the OP qualifies for LE/ MIL pricing.

[HopetonBrown]

Who in your experience has better CS? I'd probably go that way.

[HCM]

Who in your experience has better CS? I'd probably go that way.

SA's CS is good - my gun works now but still does not shoot to POA.

One of the other members sent his back and promptly sold it off, the other had two trips back to SA and eventually sent it to a custom smith and dumped another grand into it.

DW also has good CS. Re: the OPs question about custom shops - SACS is no longer a full custom shop - at least for outside work.

[shakazulu12]

I saw that before Christmas but haven’t been able to find it on the site since, including today. Not sure why.


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I believe he does them in batches. It came up when I googled it, but not when I go to his site. I would imagine you could email him directly. Also get any additional tweaks you may want. No affiliation, though I have handled some of his full customs and they were superb.

[JHC]

SA's CS is good - my gun works now but still does not shoot to POA.

One of the other members sent his back and promptly sold it off, the other had two trips back to SA and eventually sent it to a custom smith and dumped another grand into it.

DW also has good CS. Re: the OPs question about custom shops - SACS is no longer a full custom shop - at least for outside work.

$1500 actually, but whose counting? ;)

I've been thrilled with two TRPs and the LBO in .45. The 9mm Combat Operator ran well but was not an accurate pistol although SACS said upon each return it shot to spec. I pulled the trigger on the custom work because I was very committed to keeping it and wanted it to be something special and Dave Sams insured it is. :D

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19936-Problems-reported-with-Lipseys-Combat-Operator-9mm/page16

[TAZ]

Stupid question, but are these 9mm 1911’s actual 9mm frames or a 45 frame with a modified magazine?

[Robinson]

Stupid question, but are these 9mm 1911’s actual 9mm frames or a 45 frame with a modified magazine?

Not a stupid question. The frame dimensions are the same except for the feed ramp geometry.

[TAZ]

Not a stupid question. The frame dimensions are the same except for the feed ramp geometry.

Thanks. That stinks. I was hoping that with the mainstreaming of the 9mm 1911 pattern SA would ramp up the EMP frame, preferably in steel. T
For those of us with freakishly short fingers, every little bit helps.

[HCM]

Thanks. That stinks. I was hoping that with the mainstreaming of the 9mm 1911 pattern SA would ramp up the EMP frame, preferably in steel. T
For those of us with freakishly short fingers, every little bit helps.

SA offers the EMP 4" models which are basically commander sized but with the EMP frame.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series/

[M2CattleCo]

Do EMPs work? I don't think I've heard any good reports from people who actually shoot 'em.

I was excited about the EMP and got to shoot some pre-production demo pistols before they were released and they didn't even run well.

I think a 1911 frame shortened for the 9mm would be a good thing. It would fix the magazine spacer and extended-extended ejector. Those two things keep me away from one as a serious use gun.

[ssb]

It's my understanding that they made the switch on all the models, though it was never advertised.

I have a 2017-mfg Valor in .45 with the flush cut/reverse crown.

[DKY]

I'm fortunate to own both the black Specialist and the new 5" TRP Operator 10mm. It would be really hard for me to pick the better gun between the two of them, but I will say that if I didn't own the Specialist I would probably be ordering the new RO Elite 5-inch to go with the TRP.

The new TRP is just damned nice and doesn't feel like it "only" cost $1500. It feels like a lot more expensive gun. No rattles, no slop, everything just lines up like it's supposed to and nothing looks sub-par. The Black-T finish is sexy. No idea how it will hold up compared to the ionbond black on the Specialist, but the ionbond can look a little dull. The TRP's black looks a little more "wet".

One thing that's been interesting is finding leather to fit the Specialist. The "Clark style" rib along the top of the slide kind of messes with the fit in holsters cut for other railed 1911's. I have TT Gunleather building one for me that I am hoping fits better.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RzgkrPT/0/d6e487bf/XL/i-RzgkrPT-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Firearms-Photos/Springfield-TRP-Operator-10mm/n-XTgc6f/i-4NmwNQc/0/cbee3a11/XL/i-4NmwNQc-XL.jpg

[JohnO]

My 2 cents.

I'm a big fan of Dan Wesson products. I purchased my first Valor (Stainless) while waiting for a custom build from Ed Brown. The Valor had just what I wanted and was easily configurable in the areas I didn't care for. Seeing it was stainless I had no issues with matching the finish. I replaced the flat mainspring housing with an arched Ed Brown stainless mainspring housing. I replaced the long trigger with a 10-8 short trigger with a fixed over travel post. I replaced the Heinie Ledge rear sight with a 10-8 U-Notch (.156) rear sight. Grips and bushings were replaced with standard thickness VZ Aliens.

But the changes did not happen to the first Stainless Valor. Initially I had some issues that had to be ironed out. First I discovered the gun did not shoot to point of aim. I can't remember if it was low or high. DW customer service replaced the front sight based on the error discrepancy. This resulted it the gun shooting off the point of aim in the opposite direction. By calculation the sight correction should have worked. DW split the difference and replaced the front sight again. Now the gun shot perfectly to point of aim.

Now the real fun began. After getting it on target I started to "exercise" the gun. Long story short I discovered the feed ramp was cut too deep and the required gap between the top edge of the feed ramp and the barrel throat was not there. I was quickly becoming a 1911 expert with my 1st 1911. Chuck Rodgers via the 1911forum told me to measure the distance between the top of the feed ramp and the Vertical Impact Surface (VIS). It measured below spec and he told me the gun was SCRAP. I contacted DW with this information and they promptly replaced the gun. The replacement gun has been flawless and it received the modifications I described above.

Later I purchased a Duty Treat Valor, configured same as the Stainless Valor. The Duty Treat Valor has been flawless and has become my primary training gun. 10's of thousands of rounds and never a single problem. I replace the recoil and firing springs on a regular schedule. I clean it ever few thousand rounds.

Friends ask me which gun do you like better the DW or one of my Ed Browns. Honestly I guess I can find some areas on the Ed Brown where the finish is better otherwise I going forward I'll I don't see a reason to spend more than a Dan Wesson. The triggers on my Dan Wessons are spectacular. The Ed Browns are good but not Dan Wesson good.

So a few years ago I got the hankering for a Lightweight Commander. The closest thing DW made was a Guardian and I did not (YUCK!) want a bobtail. So I contacted the DW Custom Shop. I wanted to talk to them but they asked to keep all communication via email so there would be a record. We went back and forth a few times hashing out details and who would provide parts. I ordered a few items from Brownells and had them shipped directly to DW. Eight weeks after agreeing on configuration and price I had a DW built LW Commander in my hands configured exactly as I wanted it. I ran it in a few classes (Pannone, Defoor, Pat Mac) and it has been perfect. It now is my daily carry.

If I'm going to purchase another 1911 pattern pistol it absolutely will be a Dan Wesson.

Dan Wesson Custom Shop Lightweight Commander
https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20236&d=1506016829

[HCM]

$1500 actually, but whose counting? ;)

I've been thrilled with two TRPs and the LBO in .45. The 9mm Combat Operator ran well but was not an accurate pistol although SACS said upon each return it shot to spec. I pulled the trigger on the custom work because I was very committed to keeping it and wanted it to be something special and Dave Sams insured it is. :D

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19936-Problems-reported-with-Lipseys-Combat-Operator-9mm/page16

Under your circumstances it is money well spent.

My 2007 vintage MC Operator has been great as has my 2012ish vintage Valor.

The SA Guns Have just bern too inconsistent. You are rolling the dice on getting a great one or a headache.

Nothing is perfect but the DW are your best chance of getting a good gun under $2k. DW has usurped the sweet spot between price and performance previously occupied by Les Baers.

[Wake27]

Thanks for all the help so far. I’m glad to hear some positives on DW’s customer service and custom shop. The part about the Specialist being picky with holsters has me wondering though, does anyone know of any interference with a Safariland ALS? I know FCS can be a little rough at first but my CRG and Roland Special were fine after a few draws. I’m curious how well the Clark Rib would play with that locking system though.

I’ll email Benchmark Precision and ask him about working up an RO Operator to compare that to the Specialist. But then again, I have a ton of money invested in my CRG and while it’s a very nice gun and it was financially easier to do it in parts, I could’ve bought a very nice Wilson Combat or maybe even SA Pro for the same amount. Base guns only go so far.


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[TC215]

Thanks for all the help so far. I’m glad to hear some positives on DW’s customer service and custom shop. The part about the Specialist being picky with holsters has me wondering though, does anyone know of any interference with a Safariland ALS? I know FCS can be a little rough at first but my CRG and Roland Special were fine after a few draws. I’m curious how well the Clark Rib would play with that locking system though.

I’ll email Benchmark Precision and ask him about working up an RO Operator to compare that to the Specialist. But then again, I have a ton of money invested in my CRG and while it’s a very nice gun and it was financially easier to do it in parts, I could’ve bought a very nice Wilson Combat or maybe even SA Pro for the same amount. Base guns only go so far.


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I’ve not had any trouble with my Specialist in a variety of Safariland duty holsters, or any other holster for that matter.

[DKY]

I’ve not had any trouble with my Specialist in a variety of Safariland duty holsters, or any other holster for that matter.

Tim Thurner @ TT Gunleather suspects it's due to the profile of the picatinny rail on the Specialist. I have a very noticeable amount of drag when removing the gun from my TT holster cut for a Springfield railed 1911, and there is a noticeable difference in the profile of the pic-rail where it blends into the frame ahead of the trigger guard between the two guns. He recommended one cut for the Colt M45A1 for the Specialist, so I have one pending from him currently.

My Springfield slides out of the holster with just the right amount of resistance.

[TC215]

Tim Thurner @ TT Gunleather suspects it's due to the profile of the picatinny rail on the Specialist. I have a very noticeable amount of drag when removing the gun from my TT holster cut for a Springfield railed 1911, and there is a noticeable difference in the profile of the pic-rail where it blends into the frame ahead of the trigger guard between the two guns. He recommended one cut for the Colt M45A1 for the Specialist, so I have one pending from him currently.

My Springfield slides out of the holster with just the right amount of resistance.

I’ve not had mine in any leather holsters, but I do know that when they designed the Specialist for a police department, they built it specifically to fit Safariland duty holsters for a railed Springfield 1911 with a TLR-1 light.

[Matt O]

I have a Keeper for a railed 1911 and no issues with the Specialist fitting it.


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[HCM]

I'm fortunate to own both the black Specialist and the new 5" TRP Operator 10mm. It would be really hard for me to pick the better gun between the two of them, but I will say that if I didn't own the Specialist I would probably be ordering the new RO Elite 5-inch to go with the TRP.

The new TRP is just damned nice and doesn't feel like it "only" cost $1500. It feels like a lot more expensive gun. No rattles, no slop, everything just lines up like it's supposed to and nothing looks sub-par. The Black-T finish is sexy. No idea how it will hold up compared to the ionbond black on the Specialist, but the ionbond can look a little dull. The TRP's black looks a little more "wet".

One thing that's been interesting is finding leather to fit the Specialist. The "Clark style" rib along the top of the slide kind of messes with the fit in holsters cut for other railed 1911's. I have TT Gunleather building one for me that I am hoping fits better.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RzgkrPT/0/d6e487bf/XL/i-RzgkrPT-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Firearms-Photos/Springfield-TRP-Operator-10mm/n-XTgc6f/i-4NmwNQc/0/cbee3a11/XL/i-4NmwNQc-XL.jpg

So look, feel and holster fit are interesting but how do they shoot ?

[DKY]

So look, feel and holster fit are interesting but how do they shoot ?

They both shoot very well. They are capable of far more accuracy than I wring out of them. No failures to feed, fire, eject on either of them to date. I've had the Specialist for two years and have a little over 800 rounds through it. I've had the TRP for a few weeks and have only had a chance to run 50 rounds through it.

[Tango]

I currently carry a G17 for work. 9MM 124gr +P Hollow Point grows on trees for me. Has anyone had any issues with the DW 9MM Specialist using Hollow Point?

[JohnN]

I currently carry a G17 for work. 9MM 124gr +P Hollow Point grows on trees for me. Has anyone had any issues with the DW 9MM Specialist using Hollow Point?So far have 2100 rounds through a DW Valkyrie with probably 300 of them being 124 gr. HST's and Gold Dots with zero malfunctions.

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[JohnN]

Ooops......in the interest of fair reporting, three rounds nosedived in the first 300 rounds on slidelock reloads using the stock magazines. No problems since with those mags, Wilson's or McCormick's.

[CalmlyDeMented]

I haven’t seen anything on a 9mm TRP. Did they release any more info on this?

[OlongJohnson]

This would seem to be a reasonably good option in the category under discussion.

https://www.gunsmidwest.com/1911r-trad-tacops-9mm-nitron.html

[Balisong]

This would seem to be a reasonably good option in the category under discussion.

https://www.gunsmidwest.com/1911r-trad-tacops-9mm-nitron.html

Interesting they have the capacity listed as 9+1. I thought those 9mm mags were 10? Especially with a magwell like that

[Sensei]

I haven’t seen anything on a 9mm TRP. Did they release any more info on this?

It does not appear that SA is releasing a 9mm variant of their TRP, only a 10mm. At least, they did not announce a 9mm at SHOT. This is perhaps this biggest oversight in the history of the world. ;)

[HCM]

It does not appear that SA is releasing a 9mm variant of their TRP, only a 10mm. At least, they did not announce a 9mm at SHOT. This is perhaps this biggest oversight in the history of the world. ;)

Or they are waiting for the NRA show.

[Wake27]

This would seem to be a reasonably good option in the category under discussion.

https://www.gunsmidwest.com/1911r-trad-tacops-9mm-nitron.html

There’s something about Sig 1911s that just don’t seem right to me, same with S&W. I got some misinformation on the 9mm TRP, the industry guy that said it was coming misread my post and Benchmark Precision isn’t taking on new projects so I have settled fully on the Specialist. Now I’m just trying to figure out if I should save a little money and get the SS since I’ll have some milling done and it’ll need a refinish anyways, or just get the duty treat from the start.


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[HCM]

There’s something about Sig 1911s that just don’t seem right to me, same with S&W. I got some misinformation on the 9mm TRP, the industry guy that said it was coming misread my post and Benchmark Precision isn’t taking on new projects so I have settled fully on the Specialist. Now I’m just trying to figure out if I should save a little money and get the SS since I’ll have some milling done and it’ll need a refinish anyways, or just get the duty treat from the start.


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I think you just answered your own question - why get duty treat if it will need to be re-done ?

[Wake27]

I think you just answered your own question - why get duty treat if it will need to be re-done ?

Only because I don't know how long it'll take for me to send it to their custom shop. Its not a big deal if I send it off in only a few months, which I guess the SS version will motivate me further to do so.

[farscott]

An additional option: While STI has discontinued all of their 1911 pistols, there are still quite a few available. STI has a good custom shop and an excellent warranty. My personal experience has shown STI builds a better pistol than DW. As an owner of (too) many 9x19 1911-pattern pistols from stock SA to full-house David Sams pistols, I can say that I have a few 9x19 guns from STI, including a Trojan and a TargetMaster, that hold their own with anyone's pistols.

As an example of what is available, here is an offering from a very reputable dealer. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/744380681

I would also spend some time with the pistol before refinishing as you may find you want to make a change and that is expensive after finishing.

[Wake27]

An additional option: While STI has discontinued all of their 1911 pistols, there are still quite a few available. STI has a good custom shop and an excellent warranty. My personal experience has shown STI builds a better pistol than DW. As an owner of (too) many 9x19 1911-pattern pistols from stock SA to full-house David Sams pistols, I can say that I have a few 9x19 guns from STI, including a Trojan and a TargetMaster, that hold their own with anyone's pistols.

As an example of what is available, here is an offering from a very reputable dealer. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/744380681

I would also spend some time with the pistol before refinishing as you may find you want to make a change and that is expensive after finishing.

I've heard that STI's quality has really dropped in the last few years. I only have minor experience with one of their 2011s but it was not working at all, and the owner said it was very expensive, though I don't know when he bought it or how many rounds he had through it. I also tend to be a fan of more traditional styled 1911s, which is why I don't think I like the Sigs or S&Ws.

[farscott]

I've heard that STI's quality has really dropped in the last few years. I only have minor experience with one of their 2011s but it was not working at all, and the owner said it was very expensive, though I don't know when he bought it or how many rounds he had through it. I also tend to be a fan of more traditional styled 1911s, which is why I don't think I like the Sigs or S&Ws.

My personal experience with relatively (2015-2017) recent STI 1911 pistols is that the quality is still there. STI spends lots of time and effort on fit and function, but very little time or effort (comparatively) on finish. 2011-pattern guns are a whole different kettle of fish, usually focusing on the need to tune magazines. Every 2011 I have ever shot needed the magazines to be tuned to the pistol.

I do understand the classic aesthetic preference as I share it, but I would suggest shooting one of the STI 1911-pattern guns before making a decision. They tend to look a lot better after a range session.

[Wake27]

My personal experience with relatively (2015-2017) recent STI 1911 pistols is that the quality is still there. STI spends lots of time and effort on fit and function, but very little time or effort (comparatively) on finish. 2011-pattern guns are a whole different kettle of fish, usually focusing on the need to tune magazines. Every 2011 I have ever shot needed the magazines to be tuned to the pistol.

I do understand the classic aesthetic preference as I share it, but I would suggest shooting one of the STI 1911-pattern guns before making a decision. They tend to look a lot better after a range session.

Fair enough, thanks for the insight.

[OlongJohnson]

I think you just answered your own question - why get duty treat if it will need to be re-done ?

Definitely this. Duty Treat for slide and frame is ~$450, which is around the difference in some of the extreme closeout deals on stainless and a non-discontinued Duty Treat version.

[TC215]

Definitely this. Duty Treat for slide and frame is ~$450, which is around the difference in some of the extreme closeout deals on stainless and a non-discontinued Duty Treat version.

Should be $350, unless they’ve gone up.

I would check and make sure DW will do custom work on a gun that already has the duty finish. Some shops won’t because the treated metal is so hard, it dulls their tooling pretty quick. The only guns I’ve sent back to them to have work done have been bare stainless.

[Wake27]

Should be $350, unless they’ve gone up.

I would check and make sure DW will do custom work on a gun that already has the duty finish. Some shops won’t because the treated metal is so hard, it dulls their tooling pretty quick. The only guns I’ve sent back to them to have work done have been bare stainless.

They quoted me at $410 a few months ago. I think I will go stainless and worry about getting it refinished with their duty treat after they mill in the FCS and maybe an RMR.

ETA - just did a detailed breakdown for the features and pricing. I compared the DW custom shop quotes to the price list from WC since that is probably who I'd send the RO Elite to, now that SACS isn't an option. Kind of hard to compare the quality of the custom work, so I just assumed they'd be about equal. The only aspect where the RO beats the DW is the magwell, I assume the WC BP one piece magwell would be nicer than the stock Specialist version. However, the SS Specialist comes out on top for every other aspect, to include a cheaper price, once all custom work is accounted for. That also assumes that there are no reliability nor accuracy issues with either, which is more of a gamble with the RO. WC also doesn't offer undercutting the trigger guard, so the DW has an advantage there as the Specialist comes with a slight undercut, I believe. Finally, I assume the DW duty treat is a nicer finish since WC doesn't have an ion bond or similar finish option.

So, the Specialist is probably a better base gun to start, has more features out of the box, and will cost less to upgrade to my preferences in the long run. Both come in just under $2k (not including any shipping, FFL transfers, tax, etc), but the Specialist should be about $80 less and likely comes with better magazines. DW it is.

[OlongJohnson]

Should be $350, unless they’ve gone up.

I would check and make sure DW will do custom work on a gun that already has the duty finish. Some shops won’t because the treated metal is so hard, it dulls their tooling pretty quick. The only guns I’ve sent back to them to have work done have been bare stainless.

I was quoted $450 on 12/8/17.

[TC215]

I was quoted $450 on 12/8/17.

Yeah, they’ve gone up. I didn’t realize it had been 4 years since I sent my last one to them to get duty treated. Goes by quick, I guess.

This thread inspired me to buy another 9mm DW to get customized. I literally just ordered it from Bud’s, after I swore I was done buying 1911’s. I’m going to send this one off to Wilson to get some work.

[Wake27]

Yeah, they’ve gone up. I didn’t realize it had been 4 years since I sent my last one to them to get duty treated. Goes by quick, I guess.

This thread inspired me to buy another 9mm DW to get customized. I literally just ordered it from Bud’s, after I swore I was done buying 1911’s. I’m going to send this one off to Wilson to get some work.

Any particular reason you chose Wilson over DW?


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[TC215]

Only reason is because I’m a big fan of the WC roundbutt magwell and want it blended to the frame.

[Wake27]

I still find it odd that DW Custom doesn't have a standardized price list, especially considering that their duty treat finish has gone up $40 in only a few months.

[Kram]

Lipsey's is no longer listing the Springfield Combat Operator 9mm on the site. I thought it was interesting that there is now a Springfield Professional 9mm listed. Both with and without rail.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SFPC9119

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SFPC9119LR

[Sensei]

Lipsey's is no longer listing the Springfield Combat Operator 9mm on the site. I thought it was interesting that there is now a Springfield Professional 9mm listed. Both with and without rail.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SFPC9119

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SFPC9119LR

Hmm, that is a very, very interesting find. Thank you. However, part of me wonders if that is a typo as I’ve not heard a peep out of SA about such a gun. Plus, a true CRG prefix PRO has always rigidly adhered to the FBI contract which did not include 9mm of course. Attempts at a 9mm PRO clone from the Custom Shop were built as Custom Carry models without the Professional engraving. As you can see, I’m a bit of a PRO bitch and you’ve peaked my interest...;)

23647

[farscott]

I was informed that the FBI contact for the Professional Model has either lapsed or expired. If true, I would not be surprised if SACS made some variants to recoup lost sales and drive further interest in the model.

[JHC]

Lipsey's is no longer listing the Springfield Combat Operator 9mm on the site.

I have a theory and it's just a one asshole with an opinion theory that the "Combat Operator" model with the features and tool steel small parts didn't turn out to be such an economical model at it's real world price point.

[TC215]

I was informed that the FBI contact for the Professional Model has either lapsed or expired. If true, I would not be surprised if SACS made some variants to recoup lost sales and drive further interest in the model.

That happened a couple of years ago.

[1986s4]

Does anyone besides Wilson and the like make an alloy framed, with rail, Commander length 9mm 1911? I've looked at SA and DW but didn't see one. S&W perhaps?

[newt]

1986,

Some of the expensive semi-custom makers like wilson do. I think you can that from Guncrafter and Nighthawk Custom. Maybe Ed Brown as well.

Newt

[minengr]

Not sure what their QA/QC is these days, but Colt does make a 9mm rail.

[minengr]

Does anyone besides Wilson and the like make an alloy framed, with rail, Commander length 9mm 1911? I've looked at SA and DW but didn't see one. S&W perhaps?

I haven't seen one, and I've looked. I'd really like to find an alloy frame 38 super.

[Sensei]

Not sure what their QA/QC is these days, but Colt does make a 9mm rail.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26573-Colt-Combat-Unit-9mm-Review-and-Initial-Impression

I’d pass on the Colt option...

[JohnN]

Does anyone besides Wilson and the like make an alloy framed, with rail, Commander length 9mm 1911? I've looked at SA and DW but didn't see one. S&W perhaps?If someone does I couldn't find it. Looking for a reddot host, ended up with a Springfield RO Champion. Now off to the pistolsmith having better parts fitted then off to ATEI for milling.
In retrospect, might have been cheaper to buy a Wilson.

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[Wake27]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26573-Colt-Combat-Unit-9mm-Review-and-Initial-Impression

I’d pass on the Colt option...

Which is a shame because my other 1911 is a CRG from several years ago and its been great. The thicker frame on top of more and more issues turned me off from it.

[Kram]

The 9mm Springfield Professionals are starting to ship to dealers. They seem to be selling for $3100 - $3400 :(.

https://www.1911addicts.com/attachments/28167345_10155691590199425_2793017765408175047_n-jpg.102590/

[Balisong]

The 9mm Springfield Professionals are starting to ship to dealers. They seem to be selling for $3100 - $3400 :(.

https://www.1911addicts.com/attachments/28167345_10155691590199425_2793017765408175047_n-jpg.102590/

I'm very ignorant on many things 1911..... but isn't that in Wilson Combat territory??

[HCM]

I'm very ignorant on many things 1911..... but isn't that in Wilson Combat territory??

Yes, but an SA Pro is a Wilson level gun.

[JSGlock34]

The Professional (originally the Bureau model) certainly has its own distinguished history and lineage of service with the FBI (as well as other Federal law enforcement agencies, and to a lesser extent with the USMC). The Springfield Armory Custom Shop seems to have significantly changed direction over the past two years, having closed for a period and greatly reducing the amount of bespoke work. In the past, the Professional was only available to the FBI specifications, and any significant designation from that recipe resulted in a "Custom Carry" without the desirable Professional rollmark. With that history, I'm a bit surprised to see a 9mm Professional at all (reportedly with a CRG serial number), but I suspect Springfield has realized that the Professional rollmark is still very marketable, and with the end of the Pro in FBI service, is seeking to leverage the Pro's reputation with the growing market for 9mm 1911s.

[Balisong]

Yes, but an SA Pro is a Wilson level gun.

Ah, I was unaware of that, thanks.

[M2CattleCo]

I think I'm going to be shooting one of the 9mm Pros for awhile. :cool:

The FBI contract is over, I guess that had something to do with the 9mm being out now.

Springfield Custom guns are on the same level of Wilson, just a little different style. Wilson Combat is going to be hard to hang with when it comes to a 9mm, but I think Springfield is capable.

[HCM]

Ah, I was unaware of that, thanks.

The SA PRO is a full custom shop build - the spec is the 1911 SA supplied to the FBI for swat and HRT use.

[SoCalDep]

I've got a .45 caliber TRP and a Pro, and a 9mm (pretty much) Specialist (as well as a Springfield Loaded Target and RO Compact in 9mm).

The Dan Wesson is awesome and while I feel the Pro is worth the extra money, the Dan Wesson is a great value for what one pays. The trigger is phenomenal and beats everything I have, including the Pro. It's reliable and extremely accurate. Compared to the TRP, I have to vote Dan Wesson... Though you'll never see me sell my TRP that has old-school SACS work done.

Your choice for a DW Specialist is a good one.

[JSGlock34]

The 9mm Pro is starting to show up. Awesome pics on 1911forum (https://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=11907666&postcount=39)...


Pics of the new 9mm Pro / Operator....

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4749/26654383788_66ec9e66d2_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4745/26654381578_349bf75bac_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4660/38715339890_08cd21b96d_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4721/26654385778_d2e59bede7_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4612/26654384338_c058b0b4e6_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4609/26654378008_b79fc5bb53_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4632/26654378638_72104e61e0_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4664/39630295745_4151f259d2_k.jpg

[M2CattleCo]

Cool pistols for sure. I decided against a Pro as it's too expensive for me to go replacing the thumb safety, trigger, and rear sight right out of the box. I found a new Wilson configured exactly how I wanted and it was almost $1K less money than a 9mm Pro.

[newyork]

I know you’re not a fan of the looks of the X treatment but how is it in hand vs checkering?

[JSGlock34]

Cool pistols for sure. I decided against a Pro as it's too expensive for me to go replacing the thumb safety, trigger, and rear sight right out of the box. I found a new Wilson configured exactly how I wanted and it was almost $1K less money than a 9mm Pro.

Agreed. The Professional is a cool pistol, but it's not the same as a bespoke custom gun. It's built to a specific recipe, and if you want to deviate from the recipe, you're probably better off with something other than a Pro.

[Wake27]

Agreed. The Professional is a cool pistol, but it's not the same as a bespoke custom gun. It's built to a specific recipe, and if you want to deviate from the recipe, you're probably better off with something other than a Pro.

I actually just noticed that last night. I don’t see myself ever spending more than $2k on a gun that doesn’t have a counter sunk slide stop. Little things when you’re spending that much money should matter.


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