Low Power Variable (1-4) for a PCC?

[mrozowjj]

I have a Scorpion carbine that I love. It is wonderful and one of my favorite guns hands down. Right now I have an Aimpoint Pro on it. I sometimes like to shoot it at 100 yards for the hell of it and I am finding that harder than I'd like because I've noticed that in order to actually see the dot I have to turn the brightness up so much that it's not a dot anymore it's a starburst. I don't know if it's my eyes or the lighting conditions of the range I go to but either way I am not super thrilled with that.

I had thought about perhaps getting a red dot magnifier for the Aimpoint but then I remembered that right now with the new hotness being the 1-6x and 1-8x low powered variable optics that are hitting the market there are some pretty screaming deals out there on some of the older 1-4. I can get a Trijicon AccuPower 1-4 for $600-ish which is actually cheaper than the Aimpoint Pro and Magnifier combo and potentially even easier to use.

My question is; is anyone else running a 1-4 or 1-6 or something like that on their PCC? And if you are what optic are you using?

Second anyone have some good deals on some of the 1-4x's out there?

[GJM]

For USPSA or something else?

[MVS]

I like LPV's for all around carbines. YMMV, but for me at 100 and in I much prefer a RDS. I am much faster with it, in addition to it being easier to use off the non dominant shoulder.

[mrozowjj]

For USPSA or something else?

I used to shoot USPSA but I haven't been to a match in over a year and a half and I sometimes tell myself I'm going to go back to it but this is mainly for dicking around with at the range. It'd be kind of nice if I could use it for USPSA too though; then if I ever get back into it I can pretend that's why I bought it in the first place

[GJM]

If a range toy, use whatever floats your boat. For USPSA, a red dot is the way to go. For defensive use, a red dot probably better matches the potential of the cartridge.

[mrozowjj]

If a range toy, use whatever floats your boat. For USPSA, a red dot is the way to go. For defensive use, a red dot probably better matches the potential of the cartridge.

I don't have the time to practice as much as I'd like so I have long ago given up on placing well so even if I do start shooting USPSA it's still going to be a range toy.

[schüler]

If you want something good that you can use on an AR if the PCC application doesnt work out then Steiner P4Xi. Cheaper option is Burris TAC30.

Most of the cheapy LPVs have crap glass/plastic and not uncommon to find focus problems at one end of mag range.

[mrozowjj]

If you want something good that you can use on an AR if the PCC application doesnt work out then Steiner P4Xi. Cheaper option is Burris TAC30.

Most of the cheapy LPVs have crap glass/plastic and not uncommon to find focus problems at one end of mag range.

I was thinking one of the Trijicon AcucuPower 1-4 specifically this reticle in green
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RS24-C-1900002

Because I can get it for $600 right now which isn't bad. Might even get it for less if I can find some coupons.

[navyman8903]

If you want something good that you can use on an AR if the PCC application doesnt work out then Steiner P4Xi. Cheaper option is Burris TAC30.

Most of the cheapy LPVs have crap glass/plastic and not uncommon to find focus problems at one end of mag range.

Second vote for the P4Xi. It's the best, and least expensive option to get into the 1-4 world IMO. The Glass clarity, coupled with the function is excellent. The reticle is if you put a set of crosshairs/simple BDC with an aimpoint dot. Very smart setup for the least amount of money. Get the 5202, it has the free throw lever for literally the same price.

[navyman8903]

I was thinking one of the Trijicon AcucuPower 1-4 specifically this reticle in green
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RS24-C-1900002

Because I can get it for $600 right now which isn't bad. Might even get it for less if I can find some coupons.

I would skip the Green, you'll find the Trij Accupowers both 1-4 and 1-8 are much cheaper than the red variants and there's a reason for that. The Green is not daylight bright in more than a few situations.


I once again recommend the P4Xi. I'll buy it off you if you hate it.

Mrgunsandgear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRm4rU2bK3Q&t=188s

It also mad his top 5 for 2017. Which is pretty serious if you see all of the things he reviewed, including the accupower 1-4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2GRm5sXVQ4&t=625s

[1986s4]

This thread seems appropriate for me right now. I had a club level pistol/carbine match this weekend. We always have a "long distance" stage, usually shots at 100, 200 and 300 yards. I have yet to finish this stage under par time. I use a Aimpoint Pro and it is zeroed at 50 yards which should get me on target at 200 too. I did make my 100 and 200 yards shot but failed on the 300. My most limiting factor was not my red dot. It was me and my nerves + breathing. I'm in good shape, I workout 5-6 days per week but it was hard to keep that dot from wondering all over the target. I finally realized that taking several deep breaths and then holding and squeezing was the way to go but too late. The dot wasn't too big, it was my lack of stability in a forced uncomfortable position that did me in. Maybe some magnification would help but it's out to the rifle range for me for some work.

[mrozowjj]

I would skip the Green, you'll find the Trij Accupowers both 1-4 and 1-8 are much cheaper than the red variants and there's a reason for that. The Green is not daylight bright in more than a few situations.


I once again recommend the P4Xi. I'll buy it off you if you hate it.

Mrgunsandgear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRm4rU2bK3Q&t=188s

It also mad his top 5 for 2017. Which is pretty serious if you see all of the things he reviewed, including the accupower 1-4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2GRm5sXVQ4&t=625s

I would consider it but I hate that reticle a lot. I hate most of the ones I'm seeing so far. The Vortex Viper PST 1-4 is really close to what I'd like. The Eotech Vudu SR-1 reticle looks fantastic as well.

Just to clarify it's not that I am trying to keep things cheap; the reason I was looking at 1-4s is because 1-4s are falling out of favor for the 1-6s and 1-8s I can get really good quality 1-4 glass for not much more than I spent on my red dot and I already think 4x is kind of overkill for a PCC so spending the extra dough on a 1-6 or 1-8 seemed kind of silly for a PCC.

[Joe Mamma]

I would consider it but I hate that reticle a lot. I hate most of the ones I'm seeing so far. The Vortex Viper PST 1-4 is really close to what I'd like. The Eotech Vudu SR-1 reticle looks fantastic as well.

Just to clarify it's not that I am trying to keep things cheap; the reason I was looking at 1-4s is because 1-4s are falling out of favor for the 1-6s and 1-8s I can get really good quality 1-4 glass for not much more than I spent on my red dot and I already think 4x is kind of overkill for a PCC so spending the extra dough on a 1-6 or 1-8 seemed kind of silly for a PCC.

You and I are thinking along the same lines. I currently run a 9mm PCC with a decent quality 1-4x optic. It's a discontinued Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 (MOA reticle with capped turrets). It's a great choice.

I shoot "close and fast" style competitions with it. I also regularly shoot various sized steel targets out to 200 yards just for fun. I don't think the guys using red dots have any real advantage for "close and fast" shooting. Obviously at distance, magnification is a huge benefit.

One thing I really like about this setup is the MOA reticle as opposed to the more common reticles with a few caliber specific (irregularly spaced) hash marks. As you probably know, the bullet drop for a PCC is huge as you go further out. The small increments in the MOA reticle (2 MOA hash marks with this scope) are very useful for holdovers with a variety of ammo. I have chrono'd various ammo out of my gun and use a ballistic calculator, so that makes the long distance hits relatively easy.

If you don't know, Vortex made capped turret and exposed turret versions of this scope. I strongly prefer the capped turrets. Both are discontinued, but you can still get the exposed turret ones in new condition if you look. I think there are some on ebay right now. There is also a place called A&A Optics which sells factory reconditioned ones from time to time.

Some people complain about the illuminated reticle in this scope not being "daylight bright." That's partially true, but it never bothered me. I mention it because it might bother you.

Let me know if you have any questions. I am happy to share my experiences.

Joe Mamma

[mrozowjj]

You and I are thinking along the same lines. I currently run a 9mm PCC with a decent quality 1-4x optic. It's a discontinued Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 (MOA reticle with capped turrets). It's a great choice.

I shoot "close and fast" style competitions with it. I also regularly shoot various sized steel targets out to 200 yards just for fun. I don't think the guys using red dots have any real advantage for "close and fast" shooting. Obviously at distance, magnification is a huge benefit.

One thing I really like about this setup is the MOA reticle as opposed to the more common reticles with a few caliber specific (irregularly spaced) hash marks. As you probably know, the bullet drop for a PCC is huge as you go further out. The small increments in the MOA reticle (2 MOA hash marks with this scope) are very useful for holdovers with a variety of ammo. I have chrono'd various ammo out of my gun and use a ballistic calculator, so that makes the long distance hits relatively easy.

If you don't know, Vortex made capped turret and exposed turret versions of this scope. I strongly prefer the capped turrets. Both are discontinued, but you can still get the exposed turret ones in new condition if you look. I think there are some on ebay right now. There is also a place called A&A Optics which sells factory reconditioned ones from time to time.

Some people complain about the illuminated reticle in this scope not being "daylight bright." That's partially true, but it never bothered me. I mention it because it might bother you.

Let me know if you have any questions. I am happy to share my experiences.

Joe Mamma


I was looking at the capped MOA one too but as you mention it's discontinued and no longer anywhere to be found. Amazon says they have some back ordered and I can order it and I think I might do that. Worst case they cancel my order. Maybe they'll find one stuffed on a shelf somewhere. If they don't I guess I can go Trijicon. Even knowing the green isn't as bright I still think i'd go green.

[navyman8903]

I would consider it but I hate that reticle a lot. I hate most of the ones I'm seeing so far. The Vortex Viper PST 1-4 is really close to what I'd like. The Eotech Vudu SR-1 reticle looks fantastic as well.

Just to clarify it's not that I am trying to keep things cheap; the reason I was looking at 1-4s is because 1-4s are falling out of favor for the 1-6s and 1-8s I can get really good quality 1-4 glass for not much more than I spent on my red dot and I already think 4x is kind of overkill for a PCC so spending the extra dough on a 1-6 or 1-8 seemed kind of silly for a PCC.

I own a Vortex viper PST 1-4. I will say it us serviceable. Not great at all, much better than a throw away scope for sure. But nothing amazing when you start running it, especially vs other scopes. It is more to do with the not daylight bright. Shooting from variable lighting conditions. And the glass is good, but not great or excellent. The clarity is alright. But not amazing. Again it's a serviceable scope. I have it on my stag M8 which loves 55gr and has a 3.5 Romney trigger in it. It's a fun and fast gun to shoot. Not a bullseye shooter for sure. So I run the past 1-4 on it. A lot of people love them, because it's affordable and obtainable.

But, it can't hold a candle to the trij you're looking at or even the steiner. Honestly. If you don't like the steiner, then the trij accupower 1-4 in red is the way to go. Skip the green. The accupower will steer you in the right direction with high quality glass and in general a solid buy once cry once overall build quality. The vortex not so much unfortunately. The vortex is cheaper sure. But the trij is better overall in every category. I wouldn't look at the viper at all honestly. If you like the reticle then I'd go with the trij. If you've got more money to spend and like the vudu. I would go with that to give you the extra mag for cleaner shots. Plus the FFP will help if you decide to go full recce.

[mrozowjj]

Skip the green... Plus the FFP will help if you decide to go full recce.

The skipping the green makes me sad. :( I liked the green. It really picks up better for me almost everywhere.

I have no idea what full recce means.

[JodyH]

In the $1000 price range I'm a big fan of the Meopta 1-4 K-Dot.
I ran one on my 3-gun carbine for several years.
Nice glass, awesome illumination, good reticle, sturdy as hell.

Meopta makes the Steyr AUG integrated scope, they have a long track record of military grade scopes.

[dontshakepandas]

The skipping the green makes me sad. :( I liked the green. It really picks up better for me almost everywhere.

I have no idea what full recce means.

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR24G

The green triangle Accupoint may be a good option for you if you are just looking for a red dot replacement. If you need holdovers for longer shots then obviously it wouldn't work for you.

I have a 1-6 Accupoint with the green triangle that I got as a red dot replacement since my astigmatism makes it harder for me to use a red dot at longer distances. I find that I give up very little in quickness to a red dot, but it does let me be a little more accurate for longer range shots even without magnification since I can use the point of the triangle and it is clear instead of a starburst. Considering where I live it would be very unrealistic for me to take a shot longer than about 150 yards, I don't miss the holdovers at all.

I have no problems picking up the green, and would imagine the complaints with green being daylight bright really only applies to the battery powered Trijicon scopes.

[navyman8903]

The skipping the green makes me sad. :( I liked the green. It really picks up better for me almost everywhere.

I have no idea what full recce means.

Dedicate the rifle you're putting it on for a full recon setup. 14.5-18" barrel with a variable power. Setup to take shots at 300-600 yards. The 1-4 will get you there, but the 1-6 will be better for a RECCE setup. Some guys just run a variable power to run it, and some dudes have intent when setting up the rifle.