Offset/Rapid Transition Sights

[ASH556]

I've battled this concept for about 5 years now and have owned/tried several of the available options.
Key Points:
1. I don't see the point of folding rapid transition sights. If I need to transition rapidly, flipping sights up is counterintuitive.
2. I don't see the need for the complexity of an A2 elevation drum on the rear. The Surefire/Duek units are overly complex and heavy.
3. I don't place a huge premium on cheek weld for rapid transition sights. Whether I'm coming from a low ready/search position or getting out of a magnified optic (ACOG in my case) to deal with an immediate/closer threat, a more heads-up, situationally-aware position is preferred.

I thought the XS sights would do it for me with their open design. However, they are too low. No amount of cramming my face into the stock was going to get them to align properly.

Thoughts:
1. Tom_Jones: How feasible would it be to make a plate that would mount to the RMR screws on an ACOG, but that would extend forward over the optic (roughly the length of a G17 slide) and then mount a set of pistol sights to it. The screw-in front is probably the easy-part. The dovetail in the rear is where things would get complicated. Here's a ROUGH sketch of the idea:
https://i.imgur.com/62sMRoJ.jpg

2. Refute any of the above objections about existing designs.
3. Any other ideas?

[schüler]

Agreed on Duecks. Fine for a match rifle, didn't like the exposed rear knobs for serious use. A1 style would have been preferable, something like DD 1.5 or LaRue 103 in ocfset.

I'm OK with the Griffin Fail Safe set - do wish for tritium dot, smaller rear sight and traditional front sight profile vs. HK style.

[Hambo]

What I understand is that you want to mount what is basically an old BoMar rail on top of an ACOG instead of an RMR. What I don't understand is why that instead of an RMR?

Being of a certain age I remember when the TA01NSN came out and used one of those for a while. The ghost ring on top worked up close, but it wasn't my favorite. If I had to choose between short radius irons and an RMR, I'd take the RMR any day.

[ASH556]

What I understand is that you want to mount what is basically an old BoMar rail on top of an ACOG instead of an RMR. What I don't understand is why that instead of an RMR?

Being of a certain age I remember when the TA01NSN came out and used one of those for a while. The ghost ring on top worked up close, but it wasn't my favorite. If I had to choose between short radius irons and an RMR, I'd take the RMR any day.

Reasons for not wanting an RMR:
1. Less robust than irons
2. Requires a battery
3. Cost
4. Pushes me into open class for gun games (2 optics)

[Failure2Stop]

Part of the issue with pistol sights is that they don't work particularly well unless they are at an extended position.
But I do agree that pistol type sights are a missing part of the alternate aiming solution package on rifles.
The closest that I have seen so far are the XS, and as you noted, they are too short; but any higher becomes an issue.
This is something that I have pondered and prototyped a few times. I'm hoping to have something this year, but I remain unsatisfied.

[ASH556]

Part of the issue with pistol sights is that they don't work particularly well unless they are at an extended position.
But I do agree that pistol type sights are a missing part of the alternate aiming solution package on rifles.
The closest that I have seen so far are the XS, and as you noted, they are too short; but any higher becomes an issue.
This is something that I have pondered and prototyped a few times. I'm hoping to have something this year, but I remain unsatisfied.

An MLOK-backed plate that would accept pistol sights (Trijicon HD's or the Ameriglo TCAPS I use on my G17's) would be amazing. Getting the height right would be a deal, but yeah, mount it at the 2:00 position on my hand guard. That would work. Should get the extension I need and present a sight picture I'm already very familiar with.

Like an updated good quality version of this:
23032

[Failure2Stop]

An MLOK-backed plate that would accept pistol sights (Trijicon HD's or the Ameriglo TCAPS I use on my G17's) would be amazing. Getting the height right would be a deal, but yeah, mount it at the 2:00 position on my hand guard. That would work. Should get the extension I need and present a sight picture I'm already very familiar with.

Like an updated good quality version of this:
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Yeah, that version definitely needs updating.

[Caballoflaco]

ASH556 what king of precision at what distance are you looking for? Ie lower A zones @ fifteen is good enough or upper/headbox A's at 30?


I remember back in the early 00's a couple of guys at the local 3 gun match were using what was similar to a PPC revolver top rail with a fixed rear sight mounted on 45* mounts as a backup sight. Anybody else remember something similar or who might have made it?

Failure2Stop did you incorporate "protective wings" on the front and rear sights you prototyped? I love well designed protective wings on irons because they always worked really well for me as macro sights for close range fast shooting back when I shot irons a lot in competition. If I needed precision I just dropped down to the finer aperture/notch and front post.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm OK with the Griffin Fail Safe set - do wish for tritium dot, smaller rear sight and traditional front sight profile vs. HK style.

Whose design did they copy?

[ASH556]

ASH556 what king of precision at what distance are you looking for? Ie lower A zones @ fifteen is good enough or upper/headbox A's at 30?


I remember back in the early 00's a couple of guys at the local 3 gun match were using what was similar to a PPC revolver top rail with a fixed rear sight mounted on 45* mounts as a backup sight. Anybody else remember something similar or who might have made it?

Failure2Stop did you incorporate "protective wings" on the front and rear sights you prototyped? I love well designed protective wings on irons because they always worked really well for me as macro sights for close range fast shooting back when I shot irons a lot in competition. If I needed precision I just dropped down to the finer aperture/notch and front post.

3x5 @ 7yds, 6" at 25yds. Speed and movement/transitions incorporated.

[Caballoflaco]

3x5 @ 7yds, 6" at 25yds. Speed and movement/transitions incorporated.

I don't have the answer for your problem, but I thought it would be useful information for others who might. And it keeps me from recommending "just use the elevation knob of the acog".

[ASH556]

Whose design did they copy?


Not sure who was first, GG&G or Griffin, but they're very similar. I swear PRI used to make some like that too, but can't find them so maybe I made that up.

[schüler]

Whose design did they copy?Do tell.

[HCM]

Whose design did they copy?

K to the A to the C - yo.

[HCM]

Reasons for not wanting an RMR:
1. Less robust than irons
2. Requires a battery
3. Cost
4. Pushes me into open class for gun games (2 optics)

For a gun game requirement this make sense.

For anything in the real world MRDS of your choice is > than irons for off axis shooting.

[schüler]

K to the A to the C - yo.I think y'all are referring to the folding Griffin M2.

I'm talking about the fixed, "Fail Safe" model.

[BillSWPA]

If you are planning on iron backup sights, wouldn’t you want maximized sight radius?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ASH556]

If you are planning on iron backup sights, wouldn’t you want maximized sight radius?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily. These are 1 step above point shooting, not for winning Camp Perry.

[Failure2Stop]

Failure2Stop did you incorporate "protective wings" on the front and rear sights you prototyped? I love well designed protective wings on irons because they always worked really well for me as macro sights for close range fast shooting back when I shot irons a lot in competition. If I needed precision I just dropped down to the finer aperture/notch and front post.

Back and forth on it. The obstacle I was really working around was protrusion/height and integration with other mounted items.
Ultimately, from a "work gun" standpoint, I don't think that what I think I want is going to work, and thus mini-RDS and flip-up BUIS are the way for that application.
For a "game gun" I think it'll be decent,


If you are planning on iron backup sights, wouldn’t you want maximized sight radius?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sight radius is massively overrated, especially on a shoulder-stabilized platform inside 200 yards.

[TAZ]

Am I understanding your need correctly? You’re looking for an offset (rotate rifle x degrees to put into view) BUIS that are simple, fixed in a ready position and don’t stick out collecting branches and other crap. Not looking for match accuracy but more into the minute of man in an I’m glad I wore my brown pants situation.

Kind of reminds of safari rifle sights meant to get on target ASAFP before a buffalo or lion has you fir a snack. Those are usually very forward on a rifle.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/8295942f28039602fa7f21f0ab658458.jpg

What about MLok bases that have dove tails to accept a leaf and post. You could mount at the 45 deg slot on the handguard. Adjust to minimize the rifle tilt and taper the leading edges to not catch crap since they will need to be higher above the bore for a semi normal cheek weld.

[TAZ]

Other option if you have an ACOG that can mount an RMR would be to whittle up a device like the Duek RBU that mounts to the ACOG screws and places a short sight radius set of BUIS atop the ACOG, like the TA01NSN but with notch rest instead on aperture.

[ASH556]

Other option if you have an ACOG that can mount an RMR would be to whittle up a device like the Duek RBU that mounts to the ACOG screws and places a short sight radius set of BUIS atop the ACOG, like the TA01NSN but with notch rest instead on aperture.

This is exactly what I was getting at in the OP.

[TAZ]

What model ACOG do you run?

[ASH556]

What model ACOG do you run?

TA11H

[JodyH]

My Specter DR has a set of irons on top similar to what you're wanting.
They suck... As pointed out earlier, pistol style sights need to be placed at arms length to work. Attached to the top of the optic is way too close.

23124

[ASH556]

My Specter DR has a set of irons on top similar to what you're wanting.
They suck... As pointed out earlier, pistol style sights need to be placed at arms length to work. Attached to the top of the optic is way too close.

23124

Thanks Jody! That helps to rule that out without paying time and money for a custom solution that will suck. I guess that puts me back to wanting something like the XS offset sights, but I’ve already had those and as I said before, no amount of smashing my face into the stock was going to get them to align. I guess I’ll give the Magpuls another shake maybe. That or zip tie a G17slide to my handguard!

[ASH556]

That or zip tie a G17slide to my handguard!

Oh y'all thought I was kidding?

https://i.imgur.com/cCWEZWs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1vLZlsA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NWTdhab.jpg

But for real, though, this is tits. I need someone to make some MLOK direct mounts that will work like this for the sights. I may reach out to Will @ Arisaka.

[schüler]

Oh y'all thought I was kidding?
...

Man, just visualized that and it screwed with my head. Or rather, mental trigger press.

Bonus points for mounting at your normal front sight accomodation distance. #gabegreatwhite (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=gabegreatwhite)