Hawaii ICBM Inbound.... False Alarm

[RoyGBiv]

Hawaii emergency officials say ballistic missile threat alert was a mistake (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/13/hawaii-emergency-officials-say-ballistic-missile-threat-alert-was-mistake.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTcMngNX4AAEtww?format=jpg

[Lex Luthier]

My mom called from Hawaii just now; the locals in Kauai were not particularly amused.

[Peally]

I like how they confirmed it wasn't a true alert through Twitter, as if people everywhere are always checking that shitty site for this sort of thing.

I swear this planet can't get any more stupid.

[Shoresy]

I like how they confirmed it wasn't a true alert through Twitter, as if people everywhere are always checking that shitty site for this sort of thing.

I swear this planet can't get any more stupid.

I never understood why any organization with a smidgen of gravitas has taken Twitter seriously as a form of mass communication; IMO it substantially degrades whatever respect I had for them.

[blues]

I like how they confirmed it wasn't a true alert through Twitter, as if people everywhere are always checking that shitty site for this sort of thing.

I swear this planet can't get any more stupid.

twitter or it didn't happen...oh, and just wait.

(I thought it was bad enough when we had to head for the hills in Maui during a tsunami alert following an earthquake in Japan. I feel for the folks. Hope your mom is feeling better Lex Luthier.)

[Beat Trash]

My son texted me as I was shoveling snow in Ohio. He sent me a screen shot of the alert. He is a Marine station at MCBH Kaneohe Bay. He wanted to say, "Goodbye" in case it was legit.

I've spent the last 25 years as an inter-city LEO and spent 4 years as a US Marine. That conversation with my son was the single toughest one I've had to date.

I would really like to spend a few minutes alone with whomever is behind this...

[blues]

My son texted me as I was shoveling snow in Ohio. He sent me a screen shot of the alert. He is a Marine station at MCBH Kaneohe Bay. He wanted to say, "Goodbye" in case it was legit.

I've spent the last 25 years as an inter-city LEO and spent 4 years as a US Marine. That conversation with my son was the single toughest one I've had to date.

I would really like to spend a few minutes alone with whomever is behind this...

I feel for you, brother. I'm really happy that it turned out as it did, despite the upset.

[Beat Trash]

I feel for you, brother. I'm really happy that it turned out as it did, despite the upset.

Thank you...

[theJanitor]

Made for a pretty sporting morning, as I was at work, away from the family. We took people off the street and hustled them into our building. Called the wife at home and told her where to shelter in our apartment building.

Aside from the ridiculousness that started this whole fiasco, was the fact that the all clear was given through a phone APP, that not everyone uses, and right about the time when the missile should have hit. I can't understand why they pushed out an alert through the cell phone carriers, but not the retraction. This state is fucking retarded. It shouldn't take 30+ minutes to say, "Sorry, we fucked up. Go about your business". My workers told me that motorists were doing 100+mph on the freeways. Heaven forbid if there was a fatality because of this mistake

I'm a few minutes away from Joint Base Pearl Harbor Hickam, and there was no real activity there. I'm ASSuming, they would try to get aircraft up quickly

[TC215]

I like how they confirmed it wasn't a true alert through Twitter, as if people everywhere are always checking that shitty site for this sort of thing.

I swear this planet can't get any more stupid.

I have a cousin that lives there. Her husband is a Pavehawk pilot in the Air Force. Apparently social media was one of the only ways they could get updates, as the phone systems were overwhelmed and went down pretty fast.

My cousin said there were videos of people putting their kids down storm drains for shelter. She was glad it happened earlier, and not during rush hour.

[ragnar_d]

An EMA alert like that should have the two step authenticaon like what I've said should be on the "Reply All" button on Outlook.

*Clicks EMA Alert Button*
*Prompt Pops Up* "You have selected to send out a massive EMA regarding a ballistic missile attack. Are you sure you want to send this out?"

[Duelist]

Some close friends are stationed there, and I got a screen shot of the alert from her phone.

All the other posts today are selfies and such as they toured one of the state parks with their kids and parents. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Such shinola.

[texasaggie2005]

I like how they confirmed it wasn't a true alert through Twitter, as if people everywhere are always checking that shitty site for this sort of thing.

I swear this planet can't get any more stupid.

I see what you're saying.

But.

During Hurricane Harvey here in Houston, Twitter was the best way to get direct information from dozens of various .gov agencies in an instant. Every important website was linked to repeatedly during the multiday event, every news conference was advertised, up to the minute flooding updates, water & food drop points, etc. It was invaluable, especially where I was in the worst areas.

I now maintain a Twitter account, only to monitor local .gov agencies.

[Peally]

I see what you're saying.

But.

During Hurricane Harvey here in Houston, Twitter was the best way to get direct information from dozens of various .gov agencies in an instant. Every important website was linked to repeatedly during the multiday event, every news conference was advertised, up to the minute flooding updates, water & food drop points, etc. It was invaluable, especially where I was in the worst areas.

I now maintain a Twitter account, only to monitor local .gov agencies.

You can definitely get information from groups there, but the fact that it's the go-to source is seriously sad.

[ragnar_d]

I see what you're saying.

But.

During Hurricane Harvey here in Houston, Twitter was the best way to get direct information from dozens of various .gov agencies in an instant. Every important website was linked to repeatedly during the multiday event, every news conference was advertised, up to the minute flooding updates, water & food drop points, etc. It was invaluable, especially where I was in the worst areas.

I now maintain a Twitter account, only to monitor local .gov agencies.

This is the same for me. In Alabama, our city/county used Nixle and it was very good.

Down here in FL, no one uses Nixle so I signed up for FL511 and it's just about useless so I end up following everything on social media and get push notifications from those accounts. Sucks, but that's the best way I can figure to do it.


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[ACP230]

And, of course, some old actress claimed it was President Trump's fault.
Just forced that Hawaii state employee to push the wrong button, I suppose.

I have relatives in Honolulu but they didn't text or call here during the scare.

[Drang]

And, of course, some old actress claimed it was President Trump's fault.
Just forced that Hawaii state employee to push the wrong button, I suppose.

I have relatives in Honolulu but they didn't text or call here during the scare.

I think she was as-you-me'ing that it was real, that it was north Korea, and that north Korea was never a threat until a year ago.
Which assumption makes a stupid incident even stupider.

[Wake27]

I was too busy tying to figure out if it was legit to text or call anyone. The sirens weren’t going off which is the only reason I had doubt. Still, hell of a way to wake up.


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[JHC]

Excellent. Builds character. As you were.

[Hambo]

Looking at this from another perspective, we now know exactly what everyone in Hawaii will do, what will work and what will crash. That's more than you learn from drills and a good place to start from for serious planning.

[GardoneVT]

Excellent. Builds character. As you were.
You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated from their jobs at the very least.


Looking at this from another perspective, we now know exactly what everyone in Hawaii will do, what will work and what will crash. That's more than you learn from drills and a good place to start from for serious planning.

Except the precedent is now set for the public to distrust the alerts. After all this, how many people will drop everything and seek shelter in an actual emergency ( missile or otherwise)? Will the public ignore a Tsunami Warning versus upending their weddings, jobs,and lives to seek shelter in the event its another error? Cause now half of Hawaii just wrote off their cell phones as a credible emergency notification system.

[JHC]

You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated at least.

Oh I'm fuckin serious as a heart attack re Hawaii mindset. I'm all for terminating the entire chain of command too.

If half the population nearly had a coronary, GOOD! I'd love to see that shit replicated on a Continental level for a Nation of pussies. :D

[Dagga Boy]

You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated at least.

I want to know why before the heads roll. I agree that the ramifications were very serious (I took JHc's post as sarcastic rather than serious), and people should not be getting trained to ignore serious warnings. With that said, I would hate to see the next guy not issue the warning if it is real fearing losing his job like the last guy.
Like cop shootings...let's breath a minute and get some actual facts and data before being outraged. If it is a spectacular failure of common sense, training and leadership.....I will help to carry he outrage flag, but I want to make sure first.

[JHC]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

[Hambo]

You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated from their jobs at the very least.



Except the precedent is now set for the public to distrust the alerts. After all this, how many people will drop everything and seek shelter in an actual emergency ( missile or otherwise)? Will the public ignore a Tsunami Warning versus upending their weddings, jobs,and lives to seek shelter in the event its another error? Cause now half of Hawaii just wrote off their cell phones as a credible emergency notification system.

Slow your roll. I'm not saying that they should have bogus warnings, but they had an accidental discharge and they might as well learn all that is possible from it instead of just screaming about it.

[Trigger]

I don’t think the panic and hysteria reaction in the state helped at all.

We in the US lived under the threat of nuclear war for decades and did not panic. The South Koreans live under the threat of Nork artillery and land attack everyday. As was mentioned, nations like Israel live under this kind of ballistic threat everyday.

Act rationally in this type of situation. If there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself and family in case of a ballistic, then don’t panic. Be brave. Solve the problems you can, accept the outcomes you cannot. Deal with it. Panic helps nothing.

I think the folks in Hawaii should learn from their experience. We can learn from them as well. How would they/we like to be better prepared? Emergency survival equipment, stores, preps? Backyard fallout shelter? Move to a different location? Learn better sources of information and communication in this type of event? Debrief, learn, improve.

[TGS]

You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated from their jobs at the very least.



Except the precedent is now set for the public to distrust the alerts. After all this, how many people will drop everything and seek shelter in an actual emergency ( missile or otherwise)? Will the public ignore a Tsunami Warning versus upending their weddings, jobs,and lives to seek shelter in the event its another error? Cause now half of Hawaii just wrote off their cell phones as a credible emergency notification system.

Calm down Francis.

[Lex Luthier]

twitter or it didn't happen...oh, and just wait.

(I thought it was bad enough when we had to head for the hills in Maui during a tsunami alert following an earthquake in Japan. I feel for the folks. Hope your mom is feeling better Lex Luthier.)

Oh, she is @blues (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?13538-blues) (my muddah tanks you, and I tank you :cool:), but spent a bunch of her day calming down her friends and neighbors. Funny- she's usually one of the more flighty types, but ended up being pretty well-grounded when it was needed.
She said the same thing regarding communications as TC215 said- Cell service bogged down *in minutes*, Internet slowed and unreliable, and SMS messages were the only thing going through within about 20 minutes of the false alert.

[JHC]

Oh, she is @blues (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?13538-blues) (my muddah tanks you, and I tank you :cool:), but spent a bunch of her day calming down her friends and neighbors. Funny- she's usually one of the more flighty types, but ended up being pretty well-grounded when it was needed.
She said the same thing regarding communications as TC215 said- Cell service bogged down *in minutes*, Internet slowed and unreliable, and SMS messages were the only thing going through within about 20 minutes of the false alert.

That's beautiful. How rare those moments are.

[Drang]

My personal theory, which I have no supporting evidence for other than the current journalistic standards of "too good to ignore" and "feels right so it must be right", is that some individual in the Hawaiian Emergency Management Administration resented the fact that an announcement had been made that, in addition to the regularly schedule tests of the tsunami warning system they were going to start having regularly scheduled tests of the missile alert warning system, accidentally on purpose "hit the wrong button."

LOLing at all the people who are old enough to remember air raid drills in school, and monthly tests of municipal alarms systems, acting like no one on the planet has even experienced anything like this.

Edit to add: And those claiming that this is somehow Donald Trump's fault.

[Drang]

Calm down Francis.

22988FIFY

[Wake27]

You can’t be serious.

Ballistic missile alerts aren’t a goddamn game. A lot of people justifiably thought it was the last day on Earth for themselves and/or their families. To find out it was a mistake is a lapse of criminal proportions,and at the very least whoever executed the computer command that triggered this alert all the way up to their boss’ boss should be charged in criminal court with public endangerment. They should be summarily terminated from their jobs at the very least.



Except the precedent is now set for the public to distrust the alerts. After all this, how many people will drop everything and seek shelter in an actual emergency ( missile or otherwise)? Will the public ignore a Tsunami Warning versus upending their weddings, jobs,and lives to seek shelter in the event its another error? Cause now half of Hawaii just wrote off their cell phones as a credible emergency notification system.

Dude, I woke up to that text and am not nearly as concerned about it as you are.

[blues]

Dude, I woke up to that text and am not nearly as concerned about it as you are.

This will be my one and only chance to say stay woke!.

(I feel like a burden has been lifted from my shoulders. :rolleyes:)

[Stephanie B]

I wonder how many people were opening up bottles of The Good Stuff.

When I was a kid, there was a neighbor who had a bottle of extremely expensive scotch that he said he was going to open up if the nuclear attack sirens ever went off.


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[JTQ]

When I was a kid, there was a neighbor who had a bottle of extremely expensive scotch that he said he was going to open up if the nuclear attack sirens ever went off.
"Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol?"

Sent from my Smith Corona using QWERTY

[Ananth]

I see what you're saying.

But.

During Hurricane Harvey here in Houston, Twitter was the best way to get direct information from dozens of various .gov agencies in an instant. Every important website was linked to repeatedly during the multiday event, every news conference was advertised, up to the minute flooding updates, water & food drop points, etc. It was invaluable, especially where I was in the worst areas.

I now maintain a Twitter account, only to monitor local .gov agencies.

During many recent natural disasters, twitter has been one of the few ways to get localized info that gov agencies didn't yet have or weren't communicating as well. Local residents posting road conditions, best routes for evacuation, locals offering and asking for assistance, and so forth.

Haven't had need of it for anything that serious in my area, thankfully. State DPS and county sheriff's dept post updated road closure and emergency info on their respective twitter feeds, though, info that sometimes isn't included on their gov websites and road condition phone hotlines.

[willie]

The same type error occurring in the military chain of command could bring about ww3. I don't understand the reason that state governments would issue such notices even a state within N. Korea's reach.

[TAZ]

The same type error occurring in the military chain of command could bring about ww3. I don't understand the reason that state governments would issue such notices even a state within N. Korea's reach.

I’ll take local idiot with the wrong button or wrong message. Could have been a scheduled test that they forgot to include the this is a test header.

HI needs to figure out what went wrong and fix it.

[fly out]

I understand that he or she is a state employee, but is it too much to ask that someone loses his or her job over this?

[GardoneVT]

I want to know why before the heads roll. I agree that the ramifications were very serious (I took JHc's post as sarcastic rather than serious), and people should not be getting trained to ignore serious warnings. With that said, I would hate to see the next guy not issue the warning if it is real fearing losing his job like the last guy.
Like cop shootings...let's breath a minute and get some actual facts and data before being outraged. If it is a spectacular failure of common sense, training and leadership.....I will help to carry he outrage flag, but I want to make sure first.

A warning is only as good as its credibility. When people abandon vacation plans, work events,and life events such as weddings for a false warning it instills doubt which may cost lives during a legit emergency. Sending the message that tampering with public warning systems is a do not pass go trip to the unemployment line will ensure The Big Red Button isn’t pressed negligently. The public justifiably doesn’t like being placed into mortal panic over an error.

We then trade the potential loss of life from people ignoring the warning for the potential loss if a gun-shy administrator does t issue a warning when it should be, but life sometimes only offers us a choice of risks-not whether we have risk or not.
Funny how many here mention the Cold War days-
given that in the 1980s we all nearly got blown to bits because a Russian missile warning satellite signaled a false nuclear launch alert.

[Wake27]

It was one time. If people ignore the next warning because of one time, that’s on them.


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[BN]

During many recent natural disasters, twitter has been one of the few ways to get localized info that gov agencies didn't yet have or weren't communicating as well. Local residents posting road conditions, best routes for evacuation, locals offering and asking for assistance, and so forth.

I've been getting local road conditions from Facebook recently. We've had snow and ice causing bad road conditions. Facebook posters are more up to date than local news.

Should I get Twitter also? :)

[Dagga Boy]

The one thing this does prove....big government is horribly incompetent at things they shouldn't be. A human error occurred....awesome, happens all the time. Like many past situations, the reaction to that mistake and the ability to fix it were pure, unadulterated failure.

[Chance]

You can definitely get information from groups there, but the fact that it's the go-to source is seriously sad.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Communication infrastructure is much more fragile than most people would think and can easily be overwhelmed during a crisis. Saw this personally during the tornado outbreak (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_April_3,_2012)a few years ago.

Fail Whale can (usually) handle the load. During that outbreak, WFAA Weather had second-by-second updates on their Twitter feed that were simply epic. The phones went down, text messaging failed, Internet access slowed to a crawl, but Twitter kept working.

Got to use the tools that work.

[Darth_Uno]

22996

[Darth_Uno]

I've been getting local road conditions from Facebook recently. We've had snow and ice causing bad road conditions. Facebook posters are more up to date than local news.

Should I get Twitter also? :)

There’s a local FB group which is far more useful than any local gov media outlet for keeping updated on roads, weather, power outages, etc. Some people have nothing better to do than update that constantly, which works out well for guys like me who do have better things to do.

[SeriousStudent]

I wonder how many people were opening up bottles of The Good Stuff.

When I was a kid, there was a neighbor who had a bottle of extremely expensive scotch that he said he was going to open up if the nuclear attack sirens ever went off.


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This. I have a 35-year-old bottle of single malt Scotch in the NFA safe. It's going to get opened up, and me and the dog are going to have a cigar on the back patio.

Enjoy the peat, and soak up some rays.

[hufnagel]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Communication infrastructure is much more fragile than most people would think and can easily be overwhelmed during a crisis. Saw this personally during the tornado outbreak (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_April_3,_2012)a few years ago.

Fail Whale can (usually) handle the load. During that outbreak, WFAA Weather had second-by-second updates on their Twitter feed that were simply epic. The phones went down, text messaging failed, Internet access slowed to a crawl, but Twitter kept working.

Got to use the tools that work.

While the North and South Towers were still burning, we lost cellular due to the tower being knocked out (I could see the Twin Towers from my office window across the river) and the rest of the system being unable to handle the load, land lines crashed also from loading, and the only thing that DID work interestingly/amazingly was internet and email. I popped off a couple "not me, i'm fine!" messages to the wife and mother, then waited for the office weenies to decide if we were allowed to go home.

While I find it deplorable twit-ter and book of faces are more reliable (potentially) for instantaneous information dispensing, it's an it-is-what-it-is thing right now.

[Peally]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Communication infrastructure is much more fragile than most people would think and can easily be overwhelmed during a crisis. Saw this personally during the tornado outbreak (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_April_3,_2012)a few years ago.

Fail Whale can (usually) handle the load. During that outbreak, WFAA Weather had second-by-second updates on their Twitter feed that were simply epic. The phones went down, text messaging failed, Internet access slowed to a crawl, but Twitter kept working.

Got to use the tools that work.

Guess I'm being left behind then. I'm not logging on to an unorganized third party internet-tard-fight-dumpster-fire of a website that's sole claim to fame specialty is "you can't type very many words at once" for updates about being under freaking missile attack.

Somehow I feel we can do far better with the amount of taxes I see going bye bye on my paychecks.

[blues]

While the North and South Towers were still burning, we lost cellular due to the tower being knocked out (I could see the Twin Towers from my office window across the river) and the rest of the system being unable to handle the load, land lines crashed also from loading, and the only thing that DID work interestingly/amazingly was internet and email. I popped off a couple "not me, i'm fine!" messages to the wife and mother, then waited for the office weenies to decide if we were allowed to go home.

While I find it deplorable twit-ter and book of faces are more reliable (potentially) for instantaneous information dispensing, it's an it-is-what-it-is thing right now.

Well, in the same vein of incompetence...as I've reported here previously, when 9/11 struck, I was mustered back to the arms smuggling / anti-terror group, (part of the joint terrorist task-force), and tried to convince my "superiors" that we needed to establish a plan to deal with the air and seaports in South FL. I was told to belay my plan as we had a headquarters audit of the evidence room coming the following Monday and everything needed to be put shipshape prior to that.

So, an administrative task that could understandably be put on hold when life and limb could be at risk took precedence over an attempt to enhance our preparedness given the potential size and breadth of the area at greatest risk of being exploited.

Two years later I handed in my papers on the first day I became eligible to request processing for retirement.

[NH Shooter]

Somehow I feel we can do far better with the amount of taxes I see going bye bye on my paychecks.

I came to the conclusion long ago that the vast majority of our federal government is grossly incompetent and have zero hope that will ever change. The more they take the worse they seem to get. I don't think state government fares much better.


I have a 35-year-old bottle of single malt Scotch in the NFA safe. It's going to get opened up, and me and the dog are going to have a cigar on the back patio.

Sounds like a good plan, I'd join you if I could.

[willie]

A warning is only as good as its credibility. When people abandon vacation plans, work events,and life events such as weddings for a false warning it instills doubt which may cost lives during a legit emergency. Sending the message that tampering with public warning systems is a do not pass go trip to the unemployment line will ensure The Big Red Button isn’t pressed negligently. The public justifiably doesn’t like being placed into mortal panic over an error.

We then trade the potential loss of life from people ignoring the warning for the potential loss if a gun-shy administrator does t issue a warning when it should be, but life sometimes only offers us a choice of risks-not whether we have risk or not.
"Funny how many here mention the Cold War days-
given that in the 1980s we all nearly got blown to bits because a Russian missile warning satellite signaled a false nuclear launch alert".

The Cold War ended in December !991 with the breakup of the Soviet Union.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I read somewhere that when Air Force One with GWB landed at a base to be refueled during 9/11, someone told them that they couldn't as the fuel was only for use during war. That we were at war and this was the Commander in Chief didn't impress some clerically minded sot. He was spoken to.

[Stephanie B]

An EMA alert like that should have the two step authenticaon like what I've said should be on the "Reply All" button on Outlook.

*Clicks EMA Alert Button*
*Prompt Pops Up* "You have selected to send out a massive EMA regarding a ballistic missile attack. Are you sure you want to send this out?"

Crimus, my email program warns me if I try to close it out with an unsent message. Adobe Acrobat and web browsers warn me if I try to close them with more than one open tab. Word-processing programs warn about unsaved changes.

So the technology is out there for a warning pop-up. The one for a tsunami or an incoming ICBM ought to have a second popup along the lines of


WARNING!!
You are about to send out an alert that will cause disruption, if not mass panic. Do you really want to do that? If so, enter your employee ID # in the box provided and click "OK".

A two-man activation system might delay things in a timeframe where a half-a-minute is vital. But if somebody can easily and accidentally trigger such a EMA, then there is a system problem that isn't going to be solely solved by taking heads.

[Chance]

So it was 38 minutes before a text alert was sent out to give the 'all clear.' That's a long time to sit around thinking that you and everything you ever held dear is about to be incinerated.

Wow.


This. I have a 35-year-old bottle of single malt Scotch in the NFA safe. It's going to get opened up, and me and the dog are going to have a cigar on the back patio.

Enjoy the peat, and soak up some rays.

I'd have been so blitzed I wouldn't have heard the retraction....

On another note, I read a completely fascinating book recently. I've been meaning to give it a write-up in the Book Recommendations thread, but I guess I'll just mention it here. Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself--While the Rest of Us Die (https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While-ebook/dp/B010MHAG72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515951546&sr=8-1&keywords=raven+rock).

It's about the Continuity of Government (COG, ironically) preparations the US has in place to respond to a nuclear attack or other mass attack. Most interesting (and horrifying) thing I've read in years. Highly recommended.

[AMC]

Crimus, my email program warns me if I try to close it out with an unsent message. Adobe Acrobat and web browsers warn me if I try to close them with more than one open tab. Word-processing programs warn about unsaved changes.

So the technology is out there for a warning pop-up. The one for a tsunami or an incoming ICBM ought to have a second popup along the lines of



A two-man activation system might delay things in a timeframe where a half-a-minute is vital. But if somebody can easily and accidentally trigger such a EMA, then there is a system problem that isn't going to be solely solved by taking heads.

According to the head of the Hawaiian Emergency Management System, they do have a second page "Are you SURE you wanna send this?!?" button to click...and it got clicked, too. Said they are planning on a "two guys in the room" system, now.

[AMC]

22996

This is probably the closest to the truth of any post so far. Funny....in a "Holy shit we're gonna die!" type of way....

[SeriousStudent]

So it was 38 minutes before a text alert was sent out to give the 'all clear.' That's a long time to sit around thinking that you and everything you ever held dear is about to be incinerated.

Wow.



I'd have been so blitzed I wouldn't have heard the retraction....

On another note, I read a completely fascinating book recently. I've been meaning to give it a write-up in the Book Recommendations thread, but I guess I'll just mention it here. Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself--While the Rest of Us Die (https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While-ebook/dp/B010MHAG72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515951546&sr=8-1&keywords=raven+rock).

It's about the Continuity of Government (COG, ironically) preparations the US has in place to respond to a nuclear attack or other mass attack. Most interesting (and horrifying) thing I've read in years. Highly recommended.

Yep, read that when it came out. Hence the "Scotch and cigars" plan.

[Wake27]

So it was 38 minutes before a text alert was sent out to give the 'all clear.' That's a long time to sit around thinking that you and everything you ever held dear is about to be incinerated.

Can't speak for anyone else, but after about 15 minutes I figured it would've happened already haha.

[Jeep]

The thing about this warning is that it is probably only a few years premature. The Norks went from having a 15KT device in 2016 to a 300 KT device in 2017.

That is very strong evidence they had help.

Minaturizing that 300 KT device so that it can fit on a missile and will not imbalance its flight should take years--but if the Norks are getting help who knows how fast they will be able to do that.

And that is the elephant in the room here. It is probable that in the near future both Honolulu/Pearl Harbor and San Francisco will be within range of a city destroying missile, and the firing instructions on that thing will be in the hands of a guy who thinks the proper way to end squabbles in his family is to turn anti-aircraft guns on the family members he doesn't like today.

It is the biggest foreign policy crisis of our lifetime, and the "wise men" of Washington are either blaming Trump (though the Norks technical break throughs clearly happened during the Obama administration) or saying it is no big deal.

So the big question is not over whether a whole bunch of folks were scared to death because of some bureaucrat's incompetence, but what are we going to do about Kim and his missiles. He isn't going to give them up on his own, even with an oil blockade. And the recipe of the last 20+ years--be nice to the Norks and give them food and nuclear fuel if they promise not to build a bomb--have utterly failed.

So what are we going to do now? So far it appears that the establishment's advice is that we stick our heads into the sand.

[RevolverRob]

For folks who claim to want small government and independent news and resources - y'all sure seem to hate Twitter a bunch. The government shouldn't fuck up an alert system, I grant you that.

But really...Twitter is...A place made up of multiple, independent, observers, who can (and do) post real-time updates that don't filter through a bureaucratic red-tape filter to be disseminated. Multiple studies have shown that the accuracy of multiple observers, in real-time, is more reliable, accurate, and up-to-date than information that any government agency could ever hope to be. You could have the government fucking live tweeting stuff and it still wouldn't be as fast or as accurate. Because independent Twitter users are (largely) free of a broad, CYA, agenda. Unlike a government pogue who is worried about his pension and shit rolling down hill.

Twitter is not only actually a great source, but should be readily embraced by the libertarian-leaning folks in the group. Relatively free of censorship, agenda, multiple, independent observers, and a signal that just can't be stopped. That should be a libertarians wet dream (I know it's one of mine...).

The Revolution will not be televised...it will be live tweeted.

[CleverNickname]

Crimus, my email program warns me if I try to close it out with an unsent message. Adobe Acrobat and web browsers warn me if I try to close them with more than one open tab. Word-processing programs warn about unsaved changes.

So the technology is out there for a warning pop-up. The one for a tsunami or an incoming ICBM ought to have a second popup along the lines of

A two-man activation system might delay things in a timeframe where a half-a-minute is vital. But if somebody can easily and accidentally trigger such a EMA, then there is a system problem that isn't going to be solely solved by taking heads.

They were doing a test. If when sending a real alert, the operator gets a popup box saying "Are you really sure you want to send this message?", then the operator should also get that alert during a test. If they're different, then the value of running a test is diminished.

The problem is using a production system for a test. They should have two separate, identical systems: one for testing, one for production. Don't connect the test system to the outside world. Unfortunately, budget considerations or something similar probably made it so that they're running tests on their production system. If that's done, then it's a lot easier to accidentally run the equivalent of "sendnukealert.exe" when you meant to run "sendnukealert.exe --test_mode"

[critter]

I don’t think the panic and hysteria reaction in the state helped at all.

We in the US lived under the threat of nuclear war for decades and did not panic. The South Koreans live under the threat of Nork artillery and land attack everyday. As was mentioned, nations like Israel live under this kind of ballistic threat everyday.

Act rationally in this type of situation. If there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself and family in case of a ballistic, then don’t panic. Be brave. Solve the problems you can, accept the outcomes you cannot. Deal with it. Panic helps nothing.

I think the folks in Hawaii should learn from their experience. We can learn from them as well. How would they/we like to be better prepared? Emergency survival equipment, stores, preps? Backyard fallout shelter? Move to a different location? Learn better sources of information and communication in this type of event? Debrief, learn, improve.

DUCK! and cooover!

[-ad-]

Recent Project Veritas videos (consider the source, FWIW, YMMV, etc.) don’t make it seem like that last sentence is true or likely to remain true.

Agreed. While I'm all for freedom of the press, etc - when it comes to critical official government communications I don't believe these sources can be trusted. There seems to be enough evidence out there to put doubt that these companies are not neutral, and have people with corrupt enough mindsets that they will use the behemoth of a company for their personal agenda's if given the chance.

Official communication channels from government organisations need to be using a different infrastructure. If SMS is only good for the first message, and not for the rest - maybe the government needs to look at investing in some infrastructure and technology itself to put out alerts or follow up alerts.

[OlongJohnson]

On another note, I read a completely fascinating book recently. I've been meaning to give it a write-up in the Book Recommendations thread, but I guess I'll just mention it here. Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself--While the Rest of Us Die (https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While-ebook/dp/B010MHAG72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515951546&sr=8-1&keywords=raven+rock).

It's about the Continuity of Government (COG, ironically) preparations the US has in place to respond to a nuclear attack or other mass attack. Most interesting (and horrifying) thing I've read in years. Highly recommended.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSzoLCCX-Y

[CleverNickname]

They were doing a test. If when sending a real alert, the operator gets a popup box saying "Are you really sure you want to send this message?", then the operator should also get that alert during a test. If they're different, then the value of running a test is diminished.

The problem is using a production system for a test. They should have two separate, identical systems: one for testing, one for production. Don't connect the test system to the outside world. Unfortunately, budget considerations or something similar probably made it so that they're running tests on their production system. If that's done, then it's a lot easier to accidentally run the equivalent of "sendnukealert.exe" when you meant to run "sendnukealert.exe --test_mode"

Quoting myself, but looks like I was right. It's all the same system. There's literally a radio button in the interface to select whether it sends a test message or a live message. Click (or don't click) the wrong thing and whoops...

This tweet has screenshots: https://twitter.com/supersat/status/952612571122630659

[theJanitor]

So it was 38 minutes before a text alert was sent out to give the 'all clear.' That's a long time to sit around thinking that you and everything you ever held dear is about to be incinerated.

Wow.

It was actually too short. We were busy getting people to the safest part of our facility. All the warning said was that ther was a missile launched at Hawaii. We didn't know if it was nuclear. We did not know where in hawaii it was aimed at. We don't know how accurate the missile would be. We ran out of time

Plus, I thought flight time was 45 minutes, give the CD fifteen minutes to identify what was incoming and I'd have thirty minutes to act. Turns out I was wrong, and we should have been blown up much sooner

Still my here were lots of reasons to keep working and not thinking about being nuked. Saw my friend from the PD later that afternoon. He was grabbing coffee when the alert came through. He described a bunch of people in Starbucks crying and accepting obliteration.

The thing I learned the most from this. Was watching what my fellow citizens would do when something bad was REALLY going to happen. Tons of them were utterly useless.

[Wake27]

It was actually too short. We were busy getting people to the safest part of our facility. All the warning said was that ther was a missile launched at Hawaii. We didn't know if it was nuclear. We did not know where in hawaii it was aimed at. We don't know how accurate the missile would be. We ran out of time

Plus, I thought flight time was 45 minutes, give the CD fifteen minutes to identify what was incoming and I'd have thirty minutes to act. Turns out I was wrong, and we should have been blown up much sooner

Still my here were lots of reasons to keep working and not thinking about being nuked. Saw my friend from the PD later that afternoon. He was grabbing coffee when the alert came through. He described a bunch of people in Starbucks crying and accepting obliteration.

The thing I learned the most from this. Was watching what my fellow citizens would do when something bad was REALLY going to happen. Tons of them were utterly useless.

I was at home with the wife and two dogs. We were busy for about ten minutes. It was more than enough time for our minds to wander.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drang]

On another note, I read a completely fascinating book recently. I've been meaning to give it a write-up in the Book Recommendations thread, but I guess I'll just mention it here. Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself--While the Rest of Us Die (https://www.amazon.com/Raven-Rock-Governments-Secret-Itself-While-ebook/dp/B010MHAG72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515951546&sr=8-1&keywords=raven+rock).

It's about the Continuity of Government (COG, ironically) preparations the US has in place to respond to a nuclear attack or other mass attack. Most interesting (and horrifying) thing I've read in years. Highly recommended.
Good book. Obviously written by someone who never heard of Continuity of Operations, or Continuity of Government, and cannot comprehend the mere concept(s). I spent as much time shaking my head and rolling my eyes as I did outraged, and the outrage was mostly at the fact that so much of the government is not willing to abide by the rules. (I'm looking at you, US Supreme Court, unwilling to contemplate the notion that Continuity of Constitutional Government means that the Federal Judicial Branch should make Plans...)

[Zincwarrior]

Sorry for you guys over there. I am sure that was a scare.

On the other hand, a lot of you guys are living in Hawaii. Jealous meter set to overload.

[Chance]

How not to make a user interface:

23009

[blues]

How not to make a user interface:

23009

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11841491.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/North-Korean-leader-Kim-Jong-Un-reacts-with-members-of-the-Korean-Peoples-Army.jpg

"Thanks for the systems test! We'll be in touch again soon."

[Guerrero]

I was at home with the wife and two dogs. We were busy for about ten minutes. It was more than enough time for our minds to wander.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBow-chicka-wow-wow

[mark7]

How not to make a user interface:

23009

23010

[Drang]

How not to make a user interface:

23009

And then when the system asked "Are you sure?" clicked "Yes, I'm sure..."


On a lighter note...
...YouTube does not seem to have the George Carlin "Hippy Dippy Weatherman" routine which included "Thunderstorms on the radar, but so is a squadron of Russian ICBMs, so don't sweat the thunderstorms..."

[Zincwarrior]

How not to make a user interface:

23009

So...why did it take 30 minutes to send out an oopsie? Does the system not have an "all clear" setting?

This would have been completely different had they immediately sent out an all clear. Then they could have released a statement saying they have "successfully" tested the system....

[Chance]

According to The Washington Post:



Part of what worsened the situation Saturday was that there was no system in place at the state emergency agency for correcting the error, Rapoza said. The state agency had standing permission through FEMA to use civil warning systems to send out the missile alert — but not to send out a subsequent false alarm alert, he said.

[BobLoblaw]

https://imgflip.com/i/22q314https://i.imgflip.com/22q314.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/22q314)

[GyroF-16]

Does the system not have an "all clear" setting?



Good point!

What was the plan for when the ICBM missed by 50 miles (made by N Koreans = not quite right)?

Every attack warning system I experienced in my military life had an "All Clear" or "Cancel Scramble" signal.

Maybe the HI Emergency Management organization needs to get some input from people with career experience working with such systems.

[blues]

According to The Washington Post:


Part of what worsened the situation Saturday was that there was no system in place at the state emergency agency for correcting the error, Rapoza said. The state agency had standing permission through FEMA to use civil warning systems to send out the missile alert — but not to send out a subsequent false alarm alert, he said.

http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/article/12371/1400694295028537.jpg

"What's everyone getting so uptight about? I said I'd fix it!"

[Stephanie B]

Norad did the same thing in 1971 (https://seanmunger.com/2014/02/20/we-interrupt-this-program-the-terrifying-ebs-false-alarm-of-1971/).

CBS's radio report (https://youtu.be/1B1EAeh6H_I?t=13m16s) afterwards.

[theJanitor]

Maybe the HI Emergency Management organization needs to get some input from people with career experience working with such systems.

A few years back, they had a huge communication break in their command. Turns out they put everyone on the same cell phone carrier, so when that carrier failed, no one could call each other. genius

[Chance]

Foxtrot Alpha posted the following (https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/hawaiis-missile-warning-system-looks-much-worse-than-yo-1822117107/) screenshot:

23035

Apparently, "PACOM (CDW) - STATE ONLY" is the "real world" alert. The mistake is becoming much more apparent.

[Shoresy]

Foxtrot Alpha posted the following (https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/hawaiis-missile-warning-system-looks-much-worse-than-yo-1822117107/) screenshot:

23035

Apparently, "PACOM (CDW) - STATE ONLY" is the "real world" alert. The mistake is becoming much more apparent.

Lowest bidder.

[hufnagel]

And then when the system asked "Are you sure?" clicked "Yes, I'm sure..."


On a lighter note...
...YouTube does not seem to have the George Carlin "Hippy Dippy Weatherman" routine which included "Thunderstorms on the radar, but so is a squadron of Russian ICBMs, so don't sweat the thunderstorms..."


https://youtu.be/MGzPMjnkoPE

Happens about 2 minutes into the skit.

[Drang]

Foxtrot Alpha posted the following (https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/hawaiis-missile-warning-system-looks-much-worse-than-yo-1822117107/) screenshot:

23035

Apparently, "PACOM (CDW) - STATE ONLY" is the "real world" alert. The mistake is becoming much more apparent.

And raises the question of "Why didn't they then click 'BMD False Alarm'"...?

And what a poorly designed interface. Especially since some of those get used a lot, like "High Surf Warning". It look like someone said "Okay, what else do we need to add?" and made no effort to clean it up.

[Bobcat]

23038

[Chance]

And raises the question of "Why didn't they then click 'BMD False Alarm'"...?


That option was apparently added after the events this weekend and intentionally placed prominently at the top of the list.

[Drang]

So they added the Emily Latella option, but didn't clean up the rest of the menu?

ETA: Or ad a "False Alarm/Cancel" for the other alerts?

[Drang]

Meanwhile, in Japan...
Japan fugu blowfish meat scare sees Gamagori city turn to emergency loudspeaker system for recall - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-fugu-blowfish-meat-gamagori-emergency-loudspeaker-alert-recall/)

[TDA]

That’s a pretty sweet Windows 3.2 display. I guess the dropdown text is distorted because of the curvature of the 15in CRT monitor?

[Peally]

Or hit enter a couple times and then add the dangerous real ones.

[Chance]

Meanwhile, in Japan...
Japan fugu blowfish meat scare sees Gamagori city turn to emergency loudspeaker system for recall - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-fugu-blowfish-meat-gamagori-emergency-loudspeaker-alert-recall/)

The Simpsons warned us about this and we didn't listen!

WE DIDN'T LISTEN!


https://youtu.be/-_SU_Ikab5g

[Chance]

This story keeps getting dumber. From BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-42787419?__twitter_impression=true):


Forgotten Twitter log-in details have been blamed for delaying a public correction to Hawaii's missile alert earlier this month.

Governor David Ige was told two minutes after a text message was issued by the Emergency Management Agency (EMA) that the threat warning was a false alarm.

But his office did not share the information via social media until about 17 minutes later.

On Monday, Mr Ige acknowledged he had failed to recall his social media ID.

"I have to confess that I don't know my Twitter account log-ons and the passwords, so certainly that's one of the changes that I've made," he said after his State of the State address, according to local newspaper the Honolulu Star Advertiser .

[Hambo]

This story keeps getting dumber. From BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-42787419?__twitter_impression=true):


On Monday, Mr Ige acknowledged he had failed to recall his social media ID.

"I have to confess that I don't know my Twitter account log-ons and the passwords,

I understand. Not all of us stay logged in on social media all the time. My passwords are all different and I can probably remember three of them. If I had to warn P-F you'd all be OK, but if you have to have notice via Twitter or Instagram you can kiss your asses goodbye.

[blues]

I understand. Not all of us stay logged in on social media all the time. My passwords are all different and I can probably remember three of them. If I had to warn P-F you'd all be OK, but if you have to have notice via Twitter or Instagram you can kiss your asses goodbye.

I don't do social media and have no idea what my password is for P-F either. That's what LastPass is for. (Until I forget the master password and then all is lost. :p)

[Surf]

Late to this thread, but I had just landed on an outer island, plane was taxiing to the gate. Everyone's phone goes off at the same time on the plane. Sunny day, no weather issues throughout the islands, thinking WTF must be a Tsunami alert, shit. Look at my phone and I was "OH FUCK". First thoughts was to get the pilots to fly us right back to Oahu. Called my wife, no answer. Called my son (13 yrs old), he was calm. Ran down a list of things to do, made sure he was gtg with the safe combo. Had him put my wife and 11 year old daughter on speaker phone, had a brief conversation,stayed very calm and matter of fact, finished with telling them that I loved them.

Saying I was pissed was an understatement.

[RoyGBiv]

Late to this thread, but I had just landed on an outer island, plane was taxiing to the gate. Everyone's phone goes off at the same time on the plane. Sunny day, no weather issues throughout the islands, thinking WTF must be a Tsunami alert, shit. Look at my phone and I was "OH FUCK". First thoughts was to get the pilots to fly us right back to Oahu. Called my wife, no answer. Called my son (13 yrs old), he was calm. Ran down a list of things to do, made sure he was gtg with the safe combo. Had him put my wife and 11 year old daughter on speaker phone, had a brief conversation,stayed very calm and matter of fact, finished with telling them that I loved them.

Saying I was pissed was an understatement.

Oahu/Honolulu would the the last-best place to go in Hawaii under those circumstances...
Airborne for 45 minutes would be the bestest.

[Surf]

Oahu/Honolulu would the the last-best place to go in Hawaii under those circumstances...
Airborne for 45 minutes would be the bestest.That means little when you kids and wife are there and you are not.

[RoyGBiv]

That means little when you kids and wife are there and you are not.

Copy that!

[Drang]

Hawaii worker who sent ballistic missile alert believed threat w - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/37384196/fcc-employee-who-sent-false-missile-alert-believed-threat-was-real)

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) -
In a stunning revelation Tuesday, state investigators said the emergency management employee who sent out the false missile alert to Hawaii phones — triggering 38 minutes of panic until a correction could be sent — believed the threat of an incoming missile was real and had a history of confusing drills with real-world events.

The news, another embarrassing chapter in a story that's shaken the public's trust in the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, came on the same day that officials announced the state worker who sent the alert has been fired and emergency management Administrator Vern Miyagi has resigned.

Meanwhile, in a news conference Tuesday in Diamond Head, Gov. David Ige said he wasn't informed that the worker who sent the false missile alert did so intentionally until Monday, when state investigators completed a probe into the fiasco.

[Zincwarrior]

Sounds like they are setting him up as the fall guy.

[Dagga Boy]

Sounds like a huge negligent training and retention issue to me.

[theJanitor]

This is Hawaii. He's probably someone's uncle, or brother-in-law.

[Drang]

So there I was, earlier in my shift, reviewing procedures for The Salt Mines' emergency alert program, and realized that there was no way to review/edit the presets that did NOT include the ability to send the entire organization into a panic...

This not being Hawaii, and me not being anyone's uncle or cousin, I very carefully backed of the app, and shut it back down. And sent an email to manager...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There was an old cold war Navy movie about a destroyer / Russian sub chase and game. Someone asked the captain what he would do if the Russian sub did X. The captain said he would say Fire One! Guess what happened! Or I think - can't remember the details though.

[LSP552]

There was an old cold war Navy movie about a destroyer / Russian sub chase and game. Someone asked the captain what he would do if the Russian sub did X. The captain said he would say Fire One! Guess what happened! Or I think - can't remember the details though.


Yep, The Bedford Incident. Great movie!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058962/reviews

[TiroFijo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knnNDnP696c

[RoyGBiv]

Sounds like a huge negligent training and retention issue to me.
Yep.
Firing the guy is a great way to prevent other employees from bringing up bad news.
Government HR strategy...

[Drang]

Yep.
Firing the guy is a great way to prevent other employees from bringing up bad news.
Government HR strategy...

They should fire the guy that didn't fire him the first time...

[Drang]

So there I was, earlier in my shift, reviewing procedures for The Salt Mines' emergency alert program, and realized that there was no way to review/edit the presets that did NOT include the ability to send the entire organization into a panic...

This not being Hawaii, and me not being anyone's uncle or cousin, I very carefully backed of the app, and shut it back down. And sent an email to manager...

UPDATE: And discovered that no one on my shift had been formally trained to use the blasted thing, although one of my guys had used it at another location, so he has now been formally recognized in his performance records for having trained everyone else. Including me.

My "peer" on afternoons will probably be upset that there are now several more of us trained to use the thing, so he is not quite so indispensable...

/OfficePolitics