LE UOF Video thread

[Gray222]

Body worn cam footage (axon body cam)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kENCGe05eFg

Fast forward to around 6:30.

Backup officer dash cam dvr:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n215fk0iUYo

Fast forward to around 3:40

Officer exits vehicle, takes fire and falls down - he fell due to being hit in the vest. Officer who falls discharges into the ground in front of him - then fires to slide lock - runs with gun in slide lock and reload after getting cover.

Doer used a rifle which was stolen since 07' - both officers were hit but recovered (shitty rifle ammo...?) BG was shot and killed in the 20 some second conflict.

[pablo]

Body worn cam footage (axon body cam)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kENCGe05eFg

Fast forward to around 6:30.

That video highlights a major peeve of mine, department's that won't spend $100 to have a relay that cuts the siren when a door is opened. A 120 decibels of background noise is very helpful in that situation.

[Gray222]

That video highlights a major peeve of mine, department's that won't spend $100 to have a relay that cuts the siren when a door is opened. A 120 decibels of background noise is very helpful in that situation.

Standard policy for us to cut sirens four or five blocks away...keep them off...

[pablo]

Standard policy for us to cut sirens four or five blocks away...keep them off...

If we had to the foresight to know where a chase would terminate, we probably wouldn't need to get in one in the first place.

It's a lowest common denominator problem. It doesn't matter how many officers get it right, all that matters is the one guy that screws it up and wrecks everyone's comms. It's a relatively minor screw up in a high stress situation, that can have major consequences.

[Coyotesfan97]

Our new cars are set up so the siren shuts off when the car goes into park IIRC

[Gray222]

If we had to the foresight to know where a chase would terminate, we probably wouldn't need to get in one in the first place.

It's a lowest common denominator problem. It doesn't matter how many officers get it right, all that matters is the one guy that screws it up and wrecks everyone's comms. It's a relatively minor screw up in a high stress situation, that can have major consequences.

I agree, its also a training thing. We are always taught the same thing in this respect, stay off the radio during a priority job and keep your fucking sirens off unless you absolutely positively need them.

Hell, when I worked midnights we would respond to priorities without lights (head/overheads) and sirens sometimes...

[pablo]

Hell, when I worked midnights we would respond to priorities without lights (head/overheads) and sirens sometimes...

I can get to most calls faster by driving a little slower without lights and sirens, except to clear intersections, work my way through traffic, than I can with lights and sirens while getting brake checked and jammed up by every nervous nancy on the road. Of course if I do the former the complaints start rolling in about that jerk cop that's speeding for no reason and using his lights and sirens because he doesn't want to sit at a light.

[Gray222]

I can get to most calls faster by driving a little slower without lights and sirens, except to clear intersections, work my way through traffic, than I can with lights and sirens while getting brake checked and jammed up by every nervous nancy on the road. Of course if I do the former the complaints start rolling in about that jerk cop that's speeding for no reason and using his lights and sirens because he doesn't want to sit at a light.

This was done during midnights, like 2a-5a. Nearly no one on the street excepts cops and BG's.

Daywork or nightwork, I need lights to get around, nearly impossible without them.

[HCM]

Body worn cam footage (axon body cam)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kENCGe05eFg

Fast forward to around 6:30.

Backup officer dash cam dvr:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n215fk0iUYo

Fast forward to around 3:40

Officer exits vehicle, takes fire and falls down - he fell due to being hit in the vest. Officer who falls discharges into the ground in front of him - then fires to slide lock - runs with gun in slide lock and reload after getting cover.

Doer used a rifle which was stolen since 07' - both officers were hit but recovered (shitty rifle ammo...?) BG was shot and killed in the 20 some second conflict.

Here is the DA's investigation report. Good read. In includes links to crime scene photos. The rifle had no sights.

http://www.ebrda.org/ois/Final%20Report/Report%20OIS%20Calvin%20Smith%20final%20publish.pd f

7800

[Gray222]

Here is the DA's investigation report. Good read. In includes links to crime scene photos. The rifle had no sights.

http://www.ebrda.org/ois/Final%20Report/Report%20OIS%20Calvin%20Smith%20final%20publish.pd f

7800

Good find, is that an optic on that rifle?

[psalms144.1]

Good find, is that an optic on that rifle?There's a better photo in the report - no optic on the rifle. Report says both officers were struck by rifle fire (one in abdomen, one in the head) - anyone know how they're doing?

[Doc_Glock]

The first officer's dash cam video:


https://youtu.be/M7qpIziAshE

My take from that is that the vehicles really are bullet attractants. It was good of the officers to get away from them. I think the lights from the cars also prevented the deceased from accurately targeting the officers once they left the vehicle.

[Gray222]

There's a better photo in the report - no optic on the rifle. Report says both officers were struck by rifle fire (one in abdomen, one in the head) - anyone know how they're doing?

Wow, no optic, at night and getting hits?

How are BG's always so lucky...

[Gray222]

Can't seem to find the original thread so I'll post it here in the mean time (I'm sure the mods will move it when they find the right thread...)

3D rendering and logic sure do point a different picture...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZSb00oSzuY

[Kukuforguns]

Can't seem to find the original thread so I'll post it here in the mean time (I'm sure the mods will move it when they find the right thread...)

3D rendering and logic sure do point a different picture...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZSb00oSzuY

How does the video analysis change anything (I watched some of the video, but not all as it seemed like an infomercial for the OCD nerd)? Assume the officer reasonably believed the perp had the Taser. How was it a justified shooting? I'm legitimately interested in your analysis.

[Gray222]

How does the video analysis change anything (I watched some of the video, but not all as it seemed like an infomercial for the OCD nerd)? Assume the officer reasonably believed the perp had the Taser. How was it a justified shooting? I'm legitimately interested in your analysis.

A reasonable officer would believe that someone who just took and attempted to use their taser against them may pose an immediate danger to other responding officers the general public and the officer in question. Other than that I don't know the laws in that state but this will throw a wrench into any homicide charge.

[Doc_Glock]

I don't think this mess has been posted in this thread:


https://youtu.be/CBLMuxqKkGw

[scw2]

I don't think this mess has been posted in this thread:


https://youtu.be/CBLMuxqKkGw

Looks like one of the officers might have kicked his own at 3:19.

:eek:

[peterb]

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/video-shows-officers-beating-suspect-after-chase/

Aftermath of a high-speed chase. Subject appears compliant.

Two officers have been suspended.

[peterb]

I don't think this mess has been posted in this thread:]

What a mess. I forsee a training video...

[MattJ]

Videos like the one with 2 dogs always depress me. There was so much fail in that video. There's a guy lying on the ground who could use some first aid. No one offers. Every human there outweighed each of those dogs by double and no one took a dog to the ground. We can speak and I saw no evidence of a coordinated response. As pointed out earlier, the only force multiplier was a chain used ineffectively (that and a hose). It was surprising to me that the dogs only wanted to hurt one human. They'd go around other humans who pulled them to get back to the one guy.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

From what I read on this story, the dogs did exactly as told to do. Apparently the white guy was a maintenance man and some black dude got pissed at him for something so he sicked his dogs on him. I believe he was charged.

[Gray222]

http://www.inforum.com/news/4034980-watch-fargo-police-release-video-officer-shooting-man-armed-bb-gun


FARGO — In the early hours of Sept. 28, a man in a parking lot was pointing a BB gun at a Fargo police officer. Yelling at the top of his lungs, the officer repeatedly ordered the man to drop the weapon, to no avail.

The officer's demeanor is a very good example of "reasonable belief of imminent deadly threat."

[rjohnson4405]

http://www.inforum.com/news/4034980-watch-fargo-police-release-video-officer-shooting-man-armed-bb-gun



The officer's demeanor is a very good example of "reasonable belief of imminent deadly threat."

From the article:

Redshirt's brother, Cody Redshirt, has questioned Thomas' decision to shoot his brother and to fire three rounds.

Really dude? He pointed a gun at a cop for a full minute while the cop danced around his car and told him to drop it.

Anyone else think the cop gave this guy way TOO many chances/too much time? By the end, the guy is walking up on the cop who is on the other side of the car and he's still dancing around trying not to shoot him?!

[Gray222]

From the article:


Really dude? He pointed a gun at a cop for a full minute while the cop danced around his car and told him to drop it.

Anyone else think the cop gave this guy way TOO many chances/too much time? By the end, the guy is walking up on the cop who is on the other side of the car and he's still dancing around trying not to shoot him?!

It really looked to me like he wanted to get shot at first, hence the dancing and hiding.

He should have shot at him the moment he got the opportunity to do so.

[Bigguy]

Question from a non-LEO.:

The officer showed what can only be described and an abundance of restraint. So much so that he placed his life in what I would consider unwarranted jeopardy. If he is unable or unwilling to use deadly force more quickly, is it possible that he should reconsider his profession?

I realize that with any amount of disclaimer, there is still an element of Monday Morning Quarterbacking in my question. I mean no disrespect and am not suggesting any degree of cowardice in his actions. He may have too much empathy though.

[rjohnson4405]

Question from a non-LEO.:

The officer showed what can only be described and an abundance of restraint. So much so that he placed his life in what I would consider unwarranted jeopardy. If he is unable or unwilling to use deadly force more quickly, is it possible that he should reconsider his profession?

I realize that with any amount of disclaimer, there is still an element of Monday Morning Quarterbacking in my question. I mean no disrespect and am not suggesting any degree of cowardice in his actions. He may have too much empathy though.

It's a sample size of one, but I COULD see this being the fallout from policy and pressure to not be involved in deadly force situations. Fear of being used to make a political point or have your life ruined by the media and activists.

[Gray222]

It is the fear of being sued. The fear of having to be 100% correct or else you may end up going to jail, losing your career and your family. It is a serious choice with very serious consequences. With all that in mind, if you are put in a situation where you could reasonably believe death or serious bodily injury are imminent, you should act. Living is better than not.

[AMC]

Obviously I can't read the guy's mind, but I'm certain enough that it's the fear of media/political backlash at work. We're definitely seeing it here.....guys responded to a knife-armed subject, hit him with 12 ga supersocks twice....didn't work.....so they followed him and tackled him from behind, while he still had the 10" carving knife in his hand. Only reason we didn't have a dead cop was because the subject didn't want to kill them. They were then praised by command as an example of "how it should be done". This crap is gonna get people killed, and most police admin types flat out don't care. It's easier on them than defending a righteous shooting.

[KeeFus]

Savannah, GA OIS:


http://youtu.be/abLTX-mhrsU

[LockedBreech]

Savannah, GA OIS:


http://youtu.be/abLTX-mhrsU

Was the guy able to escape? Did he land a hit on one of the officers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hauptmann]

Those officers didn't have to shoot that man! He only had a knife!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/222121774620365/videos/582333565265849/

[KeeFus]

Was the guy able to escape? Did he land a hit on one of the officers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two officers shot with a .38 but from what I've read are doing ok.

Suspect was shot and killed.


http://savannahnow.com/crime-courts-news/2016-05-23/grand-jury-savannah-chatham-police-legally-justified-fatal-october

[Gray222]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1464887792


Arlington, TX - A woman walked into police headquarters with two knives. She was
taken into custody safely after an officer deployed his taser.

That desk officer showed pretty good restraint.

[98z28]

It looks like the desk officer was about to run out of desk. Had the uniforms arrived a few seconds later we would be reading a different story. I couldn't hear the radio traffic, but it looked like everyone was calm. Well done. I really miss working with folks like that...

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[KeeFus]

Happened last week...County south of me. Submitted without comment.


http://youtu.be/nDGfumHf36U

[Chuck Whitlock]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1464887792



That desk officer showed pretty good restraint.

Attempted suicide by cop?

[Lon]

Happened last week...County south of me. Submitted without comment.


http://youtu.be/nDGfumHf36U


WTF was that????? Link to story?????

Edit: http://abc11.com/news/911-calls-shed-new-insight-into-clinton-pd-shootout/1364301/

[Gray222]

https://youtu.be/dc5hbPvUB5I?t=2m37s

Dallas Love Field Airport shooting

[Shellback]

Dallas Love Field Airport shooting

Different video perspective, cell phone in front of terminal, and article here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/us/dallas-love-field-shooting/

[Gray222]

Different video perspective, cell phone in front of terminal, and article here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/us/dallas-love-field-shooting/
Still shows same thing.

[Gray222]

Action starts around 6:45 mark

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff1_1466603528



Burnsville, MN - Three Burnsville police officers were deemed legally justified in using deadly force in the shooting death of a Chaska man in a McDonald's parking lot in March.

The Dakota County Grand Jury reached the conclusion Tuesday.

On March 17, officers Taylor Jacobs, John Mott and Maksim Yakovlev were among the five officers who responded to a report of a male with a knife in a McDonald's parking lot at 2901 Minnesota Highway 13 in Burnsville.

The officers observed the man—later identified by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner as 38-year-old Map Kong of Chaska, sitting in the driver’s seat of a vehicle, waving a knife.

Kong ignored repeated orders by officers to drop the knife, according to authorities. As a result, the officers made the decision to deploy a Taser to incapacitate Kong. However, the Taser didn’t have an effect on Kong and he exited the vehicle, knife still in hand.

Jacobs, Mott and Yakovlev fired their weapons at that time, authorities said. Kong died from multiple gunshot wounds, according to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. A toxicology report revealed Kong tested positive for amphetamine and methamphetamine.

The officers were then placed on administrative leave following the shooting.

“Law enforcement officers are trained to protect and serve our communities each and every day. Unfortunately there are times when officers are placed in a situation where they must use deadly force to protect themselves and the public.” Dakota County Attorney James Backstrom said after the decision Tuesday.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and the Dakota County Sheriff’s Office assisted in the investigation.

Lessons learned - When you setup a funnel to shoot and don't cover route of escape for suspect you essentially didn't setup a safe backdrop because you do not know where he is going to go.

Things/concepts that would have made this go more smoothly.

Pulling the squad up to the front driver's side door so he couldn't open it.

L Shape instead of "move over" "line of fire"

One person does one job at one time.

[Shellback]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=93e_1466473743

[HCountyGuy]

Well, get ready Baton Rogue, the BLM lynch mob is headed your way


https://youtu.be/jBZPCDqymyo

As with most of these kinds of videos, nothing shown of what lead up to the UOF. As the footage starts you can hear some pops, which I believe may have been the attempted deployment of Tasers. Officers eventually get suspect on the ground, and at about the 27 second mark you can hear the officers yelling to indicate the individual has a gun. One officer tells him "Hey bro, you fucking move I swear to God!" Soon following, the other officer yells something that sounds as if to say "Don't resist" before two shots go out.

[John Hearne]

Well, get ready Baton Rogue, the BLM lynch mob is headed your way
As with most of these kinds of videos, nothing shown of what lead up to the UOF. As the footage starts you can hear some pops, which I believe may have been the attempted deployment of Tasers. Officers eventually get suspect on the ground, and at about the 27 second mark you can hear the officers yelling to indicate the individual has a gun. One officer tells him "Hey bro, you fucking move I swear to God!" Soon following, the other officer yells something that sounds as if to say "Don't resist" before two shots go out.

I think that video may end up being a good training video. The store employee stated that he saw the officers remove a weapon from the suspect's pocket after the shooting which is consistent with the reason for the call, that the suspect had threatened someone with a gun. It looks like two Taser deployments, then a ground scuffle to control an armed suspect. There's even a verbal warning to satisfy TN v Garner.

[Gadfly]

The officers tried to go less lethal, and it did not work. They went hands on, and the guy still fought. Looks clean to me so far.

Below is a piece copied from "Bearing Arms" Page. A pretty good summary...
---------------------

Police were called to a Baton Rouge (Louisiana) convenience store on a “man with a gun” call.

Officers made contact with Alton Sterling at the convenience store because he matched the description provided by the caller.

Officers had a conversation that led to a confrontation with Alton Sterling. We do not know the details of this conversation.

A person in a nearby car began (badly) recording with a low-quality cell phone camera just as officers stepped back and fired a taser at Alston Sterling.

You can distinctly hear the crackle of the X26 taser. It fires a second time. Alton Sterling is unmoved by either taser attempt.
Up until this point, Sterling has been passively non-compliant, at least while on camera.

An officer tackles Alton Sterling, and once Sterling is on the ground he starts actively resisting officers.

The officer who fired the taser is able to secure Sterling’s left arm with great difficulty, and pins it under his legs.
The other officer, the one who tackled Sterling, is attempting to control Sterling’s right arm, but it is out of camera view behind the bumper of the car.

The officer who tackled Alston Sterling yells “He’s got a gun!” Sterling is seen still actively resisting. We still cannot see Alton Sterling’s right arm as the tackling officer fights to control him.

The officer who had twice tasered Sterling draws his handgun to retention. He presumably issues the warning to Alton Sterling face to face: “Hey bra! You f*cking move, I swear to God.”

Two shots are fired, and the cell phone video loses focus and goes back inside the car.
Several other shots are heard.

These are the only real facts that we know.

Claims that Alton Sterling was “killed for selling CDs” is incredibly and intentionally dishonest.

[VW.45]

Maybe this could be used as a public service announcement? I know that Chris Rock is a douche, but this is funny, and true.


https://www.facebook.com/MrTechnicalDifficult/videos/801094336604605/

[SoCalDep]

Here's a better (and graphic) angle of the Alton Sterling shooting... It doesn't include the Taser deployment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpWN-U_C2dU

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwG-2rw1jiI

Skip towards the end.

Female officer walks in, gun out in front of her, BG grabs the gun and the fight is on. Second officer comes in, gets.....more than few clear face shots.

[iWander]

Watch the beginning... It shows how unstable it desperate the BG was. Great control by the male PO of himself, the female PO fighting for her life and gaining shots on target.

[Peally]

Skip towards the end.

Female officer walks in, gun out in front of her, BG grabs the gun and the fight is on. Second officer comes in, gets.....more than few clear face shots.

Ah that's more than a few :D

[Gray222]

Ah that's more than a few :D

one or a dozen, its all the same amount of paperwork...

[John Hearne]

I pushed that video out to my folks with these comments:

I know you guys think I'm obsessive about using a particular draw stroke. It is sometimes hard to communicate why minute details matter until you see the consequences in real life. This video is an excellent example of an officer not bringing the pistol back to a good #3 or #2 and almost dying for it and getting an innocent shot in the process.

We love to drive our guns to full extension because that is where we shoot best. We must realize that any time you are pushing the gun to full extension, you are making a bold statement that you have sufficient time and distance for that extension.

In tight spaces, such as clearing a corner, there is not room to fully extend the gun, if you want to guarantee it's control. It needs to be back in #3. If the gun had been there to begin with, she could have started shooting BG as he closed. Had she retracted the gun to #2, she could have dumped the magazine into him BEFORE he laid a hand on her gun.

[Dagga Boy]

I pushed that video out to my folks with these comments:

I know you guys think I'm obsessive about using a particular draw stroke. It is sometimes hard to communicate why minute details matter until you see the consequences in real life. This video is an excellent example of an officer not bringing the pistol back to a good #3 or #2 and almost dying for it and getting an innocent shot in the process.

We love to drive our guns to full extension because that is where we shoot best. We must realize that any time you are pushing the gun to full extension, you are making a bold statement that you have sufficient time and distance for that extension.

In tight spaces, such as clearing a corner, there is not room to fully extend the gun, if you want to guarantee it's control. It needs to be back in #3. If the gun had been there to begin with, she could have started shooting BG as he closed. Had she retracted the gun to #2, she could have dumped the magazine into him BEFORE he laid a hand on her gun.

This is often the big disconnect. The "shooting problem" was not difficult. The problem was complex and the gun was not the initial solution, and became a liability to the initial officer. Pistol fights and fist fights share a ton of similarities and FOR THE LE OFFICERS in particular, it is a major issue and requires often neglected training as the two types of altercations become interwoven often. Unfortunately, very little time and effort is spent in training for this because it has a higher risk factor and folks can get hurt during training, thus the easy answer is to just not do it. I spent a ton of time on this on my own and with my guys and paid off for me personally, and for several of my guys.

Great commentary John and glad you pushed it out there.

[AMC]

I hate to MMQ, but it kinda looks like the female officer was responding to the bus drivers urgency, not the situation. Was everybody off the bus? Was the guy alone? Any indication of a weapon? Why the hell would you run onto the bus with a gun in your hand in close quarters? That said, at least she held onto her weapon and didn't lose it to the suspect. And her backup pretty much didn't have any other option there......gotta take the shot that's presented to stop an immediate threat. As for one shot or twelve.....might be the same length report initially, but the City Attorney might feel differently about that workload in this environment.

[Nephrology]

Has anyone taken a look at this yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/21/florida-police-shoot-black-man-lying-down-with-arms-in-air

There are 2 videos, a before and after of the shooting, so it's hard to say... but at the same time, it looks pretty damn bad.

[Dagga Boy]

Has anyone taken a look at this yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/21/florida-police-shoot-black-man-lying-down-with-arms-in-air

There are 2 videos, a before and after of the shooting, so it's hard to say... but at the same time, it looks pretty damn bad.

Saw it earlier, and will give an early prediction without all the facts of a Negligent Discharge.

As much as I can say that the Alton Sterling shooting was a very good shoot (biggest failure on that was using a taser on a suspect with a gun, but can see why in the political climate), we also have to call the bad ones. South Carolina and Chicago, and likely this one are cases of screw ups. Most of these can be traced right back to massive training and retention failures of people who are usually quick to drive the bus over the result of their leadership failures. Defend your good ones, admit your bad ones, and most importantly.....fix training based on both.

Unlike cases in South Carolina where you have officers react and respond poorly to resistance, this is may be a case of sheer negligent firearms handling. Hopefully, more facts will be released.

[psalms144.1]

I pushed that video out to my folks with these comments:

I know you guys think I'm obsessive about using a particular draw stroke. It is sometimes hard to communicate why minute details matter until you see the consequences in real life. This video is an excellent example of an officer not bringing the pistol back to a good #3 or #2 and almost dying for it and getting an innocent shot in the process.

We love to drive our guns to full extension because that is where we shoot best. We must realize that any time you are pushing the gun to full extension, you are making a bold statement that you have sufficient time and distance for that extension.

In tight spaces, such as clearing a corner, there is not room to fully extend the gun, if you want to guarantee it's control. It needs to be back in #3. If the gun had been there to begin with, she could have started shooting BG as he closed. Had she retracted the gun to #2, she could have dumped the magazine into him BEFORE he laid a hand on her gun.We had this hammered home to us by a trainer that USSOCOM used to send us to. We did a LOT of FOF in enclosed spaces, and if you led with a muzzle around a corner, or drew "out" into the threat, you better be ready to grapple - and be dog piled.

I'm glad this one turned out the way it did, obviously a severely disturbed individual who was a clear danger to the public, and I'm glad that first officer managed to keep herself from getting shot with her own gun.

[JR1572]

Here's a link to our latest OIS.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nola.com/articles/19011410/jpso_shooting_metairie_newspap.amp?client=safari

Here is the Sheriff at the press conference following the shooting.

http://www.leoaffairs.com/featured/video-sheriff-normand-scolds-press-states-devon-martes-not-victim/

JR1572

[Peally]

Here's a link to our latest OIS.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nola.com/articles/19011410/jpso_shooting_metairie_newspap.amp?client=safari

Here is the Sheriff at the press conference following the shooting.

http://www.leoaffairs.com/featured/video-sheriff-normand-scolds-press-states-devon-martes-not-victim/

JR1572

Watched the video to "In the Still of the Night". Pandora is entertaining sometimes.

[rojocorsa]

This popped up in my FB feed today:


Suspect attempts to murder police officer while already handcuffed:

http://www.fugitive.com/2016/08/02/handcuffed-prisoner-pulls-gun-on-police-officer-and-is-killed-in-shootout-caught-on-camera/

[11B10]

RE: the New Orleans shooting - I especially liked the officer's lateral movement.

[HCountyGuy]

Officer shoots knife-wielding suspect at a Costco in Modesto, CA


https://youtu.be/GzS-Ov7Y6hQ

Officer appears to be in need of some better training. He lets the suspect get way too close. Then, when he finally shoots the guy, he does so with people in the direction he's shooting. Luckily, only the knife-wielding nutjob was injured.

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctwdUnHzBc

This is the video the media is making a big deal of...

Starts off with no sound, gets pretty real pretty quick.

If you pay attention you can see that the officer's are speaking as though they believed they were shot at, specifically by the person in the vehicle.

You see the vehicle struck the marked patrol vehicle in the beginning and that the one officer (video recording) jumped out of the way and they discharged at the vehicle at that point.

I do not know about Chicago PD's policy or what not, this may be a good shoot, but it would definitely be against policy where I work. That is not to say its wrong, it is just a messy situation.


Edit:

Here is his partners video:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-officials-release-horrific-video-showing-events-leading-up-to-fatal-police-shooting-of-black-teenager/ar-BBviZ0Q

It does look like he began shooting before the vehicle attempted to strike his partner...

[TGS]

He's damn lucky he missed his partner. Check out where he starts shooting, and where the round that entered the hood would have gone if it were just a little higher...

[Gray222]

He's damn lucky he missed his partner. Check out where he starts shooting, and where the round that entered the hood would have gone if it were just a little higher...

I watched it again and I think the round went into the hood, not bouncing.

If it had, yeah...that probably would have been an upper torso shot for sure.

[JCS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctwdUnHzBc

This is the video the media is making a big deal of...

Starts off with no sound, gets pretty real pretty quick.

If you pay attention you can see that the officer's are speaking as though they believed they were shot at, specifically by the person in the vehicle.

You see the vehicle struck the marked patrol vehicle in the beginning and that the one officer (video recording) jumped out of the way and they discharged at the vehicle at that point.

I do not know about Chicago PD's policy or what not, this may be a good shoot, but it would definitely be against policy where I work. That is not to say its wrong, it is just a messy situation.


Edit:

Here is his partners video:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-officials-release-horrific-video-showing-events-leading-up-to-fatal-police-shooting-of-black-teenager/ar-BBviZ0Q

It does look like he began shooting before the vehicle attempted to strike his partner...

That article says their policy prohibits firing at a moving vehicle. Crazy video.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peterb]

What's normal protocol for providing medical care for a suspect once they're down and cuffed? Wait for the ambulance, or have the officers start? It's obvious that the kid was bleeding, and it looks like there was manpower to spare at that point.

[Kanati]

I couldn't get the MSN link to the partner's video to work; USA Today has the full thing:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/05/chicago-releases-shocking-video-police-shooting-unarmed-teen/88290748/

[Gray222]

What's normal protocol for providing medical care for a suspect once they're down and cuffed? Wait for the ambulance, or have the officers start? It's obvious that the kid was bleeding, and it looks like there was manpower to spare at that point.

If they don't know any medical treatment then they aren't expected to do anything at all.

Locally we scoop and go.

[Nephrology]

If they don't know any medical treatment then they aren't expected to do anything at all.

Locally we scoop and go.

Like I keep saying in the medical kit threads that pop up, scoop and go is the smartest thing to do anyway. If you have a TQ apply it if you have an arterial bleed on an extremity, otherwise just get to a hospital ASAP

[Gray222]

Like I keep saying in the medical kit threads that pop up, scoop and go is the smartest thing to do anyway. If you have a TQ apply it if you have an arterial bleed on an extremity, otherwise just get to a hospital ASAP

I agree.

TQ, chest seal maybe a celox if it's really bad. That's it. Get them to a lvl 1 asap

[rojocorsa]

OIS in Cincinnati regarding a crazy guy with a knife.

Source:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/08/09/black-lives-matter-blames-cop-willingly-stabbed-death/




https://youtu.be/MBmRMRTbZfY

[BehindBlueI's]

OIS in Cincinnati regarding a crazy guy with a knife.

Source:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/08/09/black-lives-matter-blames-cop-willingly-stabbed-death/




https://youtu.be/MBmRMRTbZfY

Is the dude inside the store a cop or a security guard? If security, was he armed?

[iWander]

Armed security. BLM are blaming the officers for not "de-escalating" situation and "provoking" poor Mister Porter by drawing his gun against a robber armed with a knife... Idiots

[rojocorsa]

I wonder if the security guard was aware of how easily he could have been killed with a blade so close to him.

[breakingtime91]

I wonder if the security guard was aware of how easily he could have been killed with a blade so close to him.

he may of just been behind the power curve and realized compliance was the best thing at that point. Maybe in his mind his was faking compliance and waiting to act but then saw/heard sirens. Who knows.

[iWander]

Watch the video from Kroger's. He did.

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_7qHK2BMo

"Whose got the fucking taser?"

note - I am not a fan of "knock and announce" the one old timer was standing in the door way without a shield...

[Hambo]

"Whose got the fucking taser?"

note - I am not a fan of "knock and announce" the one old timer was standing in the door way without a shield...

There's always that moment when you swing the ram and wonder if rounds will be coming through the door.

I could pick out a lot of things I didn't like about the way they worked this.

[iWander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_7qHK2BMo

"Whose got the fucking taser?"

note - I am not a fan of "knock and announce" the one old timer was standing in the door way without a shield...
WTH?! Where's the rest of the video? The rounds looked like they were from the male in the doorway

[Gray222]

There's always that moment when you swing the ram and wonder if rounds will be coming through the door.

I could pick out a lot of things I didn't like about the way they worked this.

Yep....parrel train approach, random dude not in stack bangs on door while not covered, the derp static standing in the doorway AFTER not pushing the door open right away...

[AMC]

Damn. I ain't a SWAT guy, but that looked more like Cosplay at a role-playing camp for CPO's than professional police work. My patrol guys wouldn't have screwed that up like that. We wouldn't let them.

[El Cid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_7qHK2BMo

"Whose got the fucking taser?"

note - I am not a fan of "knock and announce" the one old timer was standing in the door way without a shield...
More proof that saying "drop the gun" 20 times doesn't work.

[Hambo]

Yep....parrel train approach, random dude not in stack bangs on door while not covered, the derp static standing in the doorway AFTER not pushing the door open right away...

Yeah, it's really a "how not to" video from start to finish.

[Coyotesfan97]

The tactics aren't great but it sure demonstrates action always beats reaction. He got four shots off , hit one Officer and put a round through the clothing of another. It also shows why people get shot when they don't drop a gun on command.

[Lon]

The tactics aren't great but it sure demonstrates action always beats reaction. He got four shots off , hit one Officer and put a round through the clothing of another. It also shows why people get shot when they don't drop a gun on command.

Link to article?

[iWander]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=569405723252206&id=326614387531342

[Shellback]

Here's the whole video with audio, which doesn't sound good to me. The guy ended up dying.

“I’ve got a non-responsive female and a male refusing to get out,” he speaks into his radio... That's because you shot him!

After 12:30 in the video “I think I shot him,” Feaster said. “I wasn’t even pointing at him but the gun did go off.”

“Oh my fucking God, are you serious?” the supervisor responds and the video ends.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZkGx8ZVy4k

Officer found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. (http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/butte/verdict-reached-in-trial-of-ex-officer-patrick-feaster/124841676)

[KeeFus]

Happened just outside of my town last night...one of our K9s apprehended one of the suspects. Third suspect is still at-large.

http://www.jocoreport.com/2016/10/25/two-charged-with-attempted-murder-of-deputy-following-shooting-chase/

[Coyotesfan97]

Good dog!

[KeeFus]

Good dog!

Yup. The guy in the pic that is looking up failed to show his hands. He paid for it with a K9 bite to the belly...which is why he looks doubled over in the mugshot.

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7T6ensUUpM

Takes a nice deep breath and boom, headshot.

Shots around 3:30

[Nephrology]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7T6ensUUpM

Takes a nice deep breath and boom, headshot.

Shots around 3:30

Wow. I live very close by in SE Denver. Strong work from the officer.

[LockedBreech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7T6ensUUpM

Takes a nice deep breath and boom, headshot.

Shots around 3:30

Good to know officers like that are on duty. Damn fine job.

[MI Law]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7T6ensUUpM

Takes a nice deep breath and boom, headshot.

Shots around 3:30

You know it's a good shot when your partner thinks the guy shot himself...

[iWander]

https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/236132006-Video-Ariz-officer-suspect-shot-in-gun-battle/?NewsletterID=235081044&utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=TopNewsLeft1Title&utm_campaign=P1Member&cub_id=usr_S69ec8O4lFX5p2Vf

[rojocorsa]

https://www.full30.com/video/4ce25131a8b8c1b68bb49b3947105e6c

Suspect tries to draw and fire on officers during traffic stop.

[JAD]

https://www.full30.com/video/4ce25131a8b8c1b68bb49b3947105e6c

Suspect tries to draw and fire on officers during traffic stop.

Condition 3.

[11B10]

And I keep hearing what poor shots officers are. I don't know which one of the officers hit the bg, but they were BOTH moving and the subject was running. Not easy shooting by anyone's standards.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Oklahoma pursuit shooting, views from patrol cars and aircraft:
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/oklahoma-highway-patrol-to-release-video-of-deadly-shootout-with-homicide-suspect-michael-vance

http://www.news9.com/story/33548651/ohp-to-release-dashcam-video-of-michael-vance-shootout

[JCS]

Oklahoma pursuit shooting, views from patrol cars and aircraft:
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/oklahoma-highway-patrol-to-release-video-of-deadly-shootout-with-homicide-suspect-michael-vance

http://www.news9.com/story/33548651/ohp-to-release-dashcam-video-of-michael-vance-shootout

I would like to hear from the officers here about using an ar while driving. I was surprised by that but I guess the highway patrol can get away with more in open spaces??

[Peally]

I'm curious how to do it without blowing out your windshield and getting a face full of debris from the road. Maybe bracing it into the rear view mirror... time to go look like a psycho dryfiring in the garage.

ETA: My only regret is someone didn't happen to slam into him at 90 MPH instead of him getting shot. Would have made for a beautiful video.

[JCS]

Also I can't imagine how that was on his ears. Yikes.

[John Hearne]

Also I can't imagine how that was on his ears. Yikes.

I'm not sure if the bad guy was actively engaging them with gunfire or just running. If he was engaging them, then competing harms become the determining factor.

[LockedBreech]

I would like to hear from the officers here about using an ar while driving. I was surprised by that but I guess the highway patrol can get away with more in open spaces??

I'm no SME at all, but it seemed like the trooper did pretty damn well. Damn sight better than I could, I can barely eat and drive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peally]

I'm not sure if the bad guy was actively engaging them with gunfire or just running. If he was engaging them, then competing harms become the determining factor.

I believe the voice over the video mentioned they were exchanging fire. He also had a rifle when he exited the vehicle and actively fired it before being put down. I'm guessing being deaf was probably worth it.

[breakingtime91]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

not sure how to embed this video. It is not my video but is easily found through youtube.

If you watch the IR imaging you can see the troopers rounds impacting the truck. Badass shooting with what looks like a Vortex Razor while driving. You can clearly hear the heavier thumb of the AK during the video also.

[Peally]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

not sure how to embed this video. It is not my video but is easily found through youtube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

[JCS]

I believe the voice over the video mentioned they were exchanging fire. He also had a rifle when he exited the vehicle and actively fired it before being put down. I'm guessing being deaf was probably worth it.

No doubt. I'd rather lose my hearing than my life.

[Gray222]

Sometimes you have to do both, unfortunately the top brass doesn't think ahead and while he did a good job and came out on top, I'd promptly take myself in to a hospital for an on duty hearing injury.

[iWander]

His supervisor should force him to go to the hospital anyway for shrapnel wounds, stress related injuries to heart, etc.

[JCS]

Sometimes you have to do both, unfortunately the top brass doesn't think ahead and while he did a good job and came out on top, I'd promptly take myself in to a hospital for an on duty hearing injury.

Is shooting while driving something that is addressed in protocol?

[iWander]

Yes with some agencies. We have covered shooting while inside a cruiser both stationary and moving

[Gray222]

Is shooting while driving something that is addressed in protocol?

Oh yeah. My PDs policy reads "you shall not discharge a firearm from or into a moving vehicle."

I didnt add the bold or underline for emphasis, it is in the actual policy.

...and btw we have done it and will continue to do as the state code allows us to do it legally as long as we can articulate it.

[Erick Gelhaus]

The suspect had killed multiple people and wounded more. He was not complying, he was not surendering, he was obviously armed and continuing to present a lethal threat to the officers and the community. The use of deadly force in this circumstance damn near fits a textbook definition of Tennessee v. Garner. Part of the consideration is whether or not it'd be objectively reasonable or not under Graham v. Connor. Probably the most on-point case is Scott v. Harris which addressed the use of deadly force to end the lethal force threat caused by a suspect fleeing during a high-speed pursuit, the suspect became a quadrapalegic and the Supreme Court ruled the deadly force used was reasonable.
Then there are Plumhoff v. Rickard and Mullenix v. Luna, both of which relate to pursuits and shootings.

As mentioned, events like this and Fremont/San Francisco, Santa Monica, Caan, and more are why banning shooting at suspects in vehicles or from vehicles at them are really lousy ideas. Those bad ideas are not supported by the current case law.

Watching the videos, my concerns were the officer's hearing (albeit not as important as his life) and long range briefing issues due to aerosolized glass getting inhaled.

The suspect exiting his truck after putting it in reverse and following it towards the officers' was an interesting tactic. Also, I noticed that there little, if any, cover aside from the patrol cars in the area.

[Gray222]

The suspect had killed multiple people and wounded more. He was not complying, he was not surendering, he was obviously armed and continuing to present a lethal threat to the officers and the community. The use of deadly force in this circumstance damn near fits a textbook definition of Tennessee v. Garner. Part of the consideration is whether or not it'd be objectively reasonable or not under Graham v. Connor. Probably the most on-point case is Scott v. Harris which addressed the use of deadly force to end the lethal force threat caused by a suspect fleeing during a high-speed pursuit, the suspect became a quadrapalegic and the Supreme Court ruled the deadly force used was reasonable.
Then there are Plumhoff v. Rickard and Mullenix v. Luna, both of which relate to pursuits and shootings.

As mentioned, events like this and Fremont/San Francisco, Santa Monica, Caan, and more are why banning shooting at suspects in vehicles or from vehicles at them are really lousy ideas. Those bad ideas are not supported by the current case law.

Watching the videos, my concerns were the officer's hearing (albeit not as important as his life) and long range briefing issues due to aerosolized glass getting inhaled.

The suspect exiting his truck after putting it in reverse and following it towards the officers' was an interesting tactic. Also, I noticed that there little, if any, cover aside from the patrol cars in the area.

As I've stated before, it always comes to reasonableness of actions taken by the police officers. Just how many check marks do there need to be before deadly force is not just reasonable, but required to be used during a pursuit? PD's go out of their way to limit the actions of their officers through administrative punishments, even though state/federal rulings allow those actions to take place.

Given the circumstances here, their FOP or that discharging trooper, if he was so inclined, should go and attempt to make policy changes at a state or possibly a federal level. Specifically pushing forward a civil suit which would not only mandate departments to provide suppressors/hearing safe firearms but provide a distinctly safer way of conducting these types of stops.

I went over the videos a few times and the fact the guy stopped, put his truck in reverse and engaged the officer(s) with rolling cover is a very bold move. I assume the officer(s) understood at that point the entire situation needed to be ended, which is why the giggle switch came out to play. Furthermore, that situation could have easily gone to shit because the patrol vehicles are not cover and barely concealment (especially with flashing lights and sirens). The officer(s), while there were more of them than the bad guy, were still at a distinct disadvantage. The only way for the officer(s) to properly and safely conclude the situation was to deploy a level of force vastly superior to the bad guy (violence of action).

I can only compare and contrast this situation to the way my PD would have handled it and the phrase shit show would be on par with the correct context.

[Gray222]

Just saw this and its cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850ZgmDO61U

[Luke]

First one used in Alabama with a dude driving a 4x4 duramax should be fun to watch..

[Nephrology]

Sometimes you have to do both, unfortunately the top brass doesn't think ahead and while he did a good job and came out on top, I'd promptly take myself in to a hospital for an on duty hearing injury.

Just as an FYI if you fire a gun without ear protection and are left with a residual ringing in your ears/hearing loss 12-24h later, definitely try to make an appointment with Otolaryngology (ENT) ASAP. A 10-14 day regimen of oral steroids given after loud noise exposure can be helpful in preventing long term damage (tinnitus, hearing loss) and it works best if it's given as soon as possible after the exposure (within 2 weeks I think).

If you have any blood coming from your ears or problems with balance/vertigo/dizziness after shooting a gun in close quarters, go to an ER ASAP. Don't wait to follow up the next morning. Blood means you perforated your tympanic membrane and dizziness means you damaged your inner ear. I don't know what ENT does for either of those things but I definitely would want to get a surgical consult ASAP.

[Gray222]

Just as an FYI if you fire a gun without ear protection and are left with a residual ringing in your ears/hearing loss 12-24h later, definitely try to make an appointment with Otolaryngology (ENT) ASAP. A 10-14 day regimen of oral steroids given after loud noise exposure can be helpful in preventing long term damage (tinnitus, hearing loss) and it works best if it's given as soon as possible after the exposure (within 2 weeks I think).

If you have any blood coming from your ears or problems with balance/vertigo/dizziness after shooting a gun in close quarters, go to an ER ASAP. Don't wait to follow up the next morning. Blood means you perforated your tympanic membrane and dizziness means you damaged your inner ear. I don't know what ENT does for either of those things but I definitely would want to get a surgical consult ASAP.

I agree and recommend this as well. I was in a CQ type situation many years ago and someone discharged a 20" M16 next to my head in a burst, no ear pro (very hastily put together team due to an active exigent circumstance type situation). The ER doc was NOT happy to see me.

[rojocorsa]

Does anyone carry over the ear electronic muffs in their squad for emergencies?

[AMC]

Yes. Attached to my rifle bag. They go on if the rifle comes out. Also have a pair of Surefire EP3' s for emergency use in my pocket.

[iWander]

Yes in my go bag. Along with cut resistant gloves, disposable gloves, ammo, med kit, etc. I've used the muffs and gloves the most.

[Nephrology]

Yes. Attached to my rifle bag. They go on if the rifle comes out. Also have a pair of Surefire EP3' s for emergency use in my pocket.

I got a pair of EP4s recently and I had no idea what I was missing out on. I'll be buying a few more pairs of them and stashing them around my car, in the range bag, etc...

[PearTree]

Just saw this and its cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850ZgmDO61U
It's all fun and games until someone mounts that on an impala, Taurus, or charger and the whole front axle gets wripped off.

I see a disaster waiting to happen with cops trying to utilize that system. Next thing you will hear someone hooking that contraption onto a tractor trailer or some nonsense.

[Wondering Beard]

Just saw this and its cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850ZgmDO61U

So basically, the cop car is lassoing the tire of the car being pursued? How is that not dangerous at high speed?

It's a genuine question as I don't know the first thing about high speed pursuits.

[Peally]

Doesn't seem any more dangerous to me than having a guy manually chuck the 'ol tire poppers on a busy road.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Does anyone carry over the ear electronic muffs in their squad for emergencies?

One solid suggestion elsewhere, from a well experienced aviation guy (FARP team chief), was having eye pro available. It was a palm to forehead moment - now that I'm in glasses all the time that consideration didn't pop into my head.

[TGS]

So basically, the cop car is lassoing the tire of the car being pursued? How is that not dangerous at high speed?

It's a genuine question as I don't know the first thing about high speed pursuits.

Any option is going to have varying amounts of danger.

The option this company is presenting appears to be an option with easier employment and less danger than other options.

[iWander]

It appears the device wraps around the axle and tire which forces the vehicle to stop. It's safer than deploying stop sticks while on foot. Many agencies have banned stop sticks and similar devices. We only use them if we have SOLID cover like a bridge support or building

[TimothyEyton]

Thought I would share this with you guys. It's a video of four (now suspended) Officers who have been recommended for termination after verbally and physically abusing a junkie who was just caught burglarizing someones garage. The Officers started attacking the man after one Officer began searching the handcuffed man without warning him and got stuck by a syringe needle in his pocket. The Officers later gave statements that the man resisted arrest while they attempted to handcuff the man, however he was already handcuffed before Officers started attacking him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9lM7qxN2oA

[Nephrology]

Thought I would share this with you guys. It's a video of four (now suspended) Officers who have been recommended for termination after verbally and physically abusing a junkie who was just caught burglarizing someones garage. The Officers started attacking the man after one Officer began searching the handcuffed man without warning him and got stuck by a syringe needle in his pocket. The Officers later gave statements that the man resisted arrest while they attempted to handcuff the man, however he was already handcuffed before Officers started attacking him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9lM7qxN2oA

needlesticks are fuckin scary...

[Kyle Reese]

Does anyone carry over the ear electronic muffs in their squad for emergencies?
Comp Tacs fastened to my patrol bag.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[John Hearne]

Not a UOF video but the aftermath. The defense's closing argument in the Tensing trial:
http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2016/11/09/93573958/

It's long, just over 40 minutes, but I think it frames nicely the issues at hand in any use of force trial.

[Lon]

Not a UOF video but the aftermath. The defense's closing argument in the Tensing trial:
http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2016/11/09/93573958/

It's long, just over 40 minutes, but I think it frames nicely the issues at hand in any use of force trial.

This is close by so I've been watching it closely. The prosecutor overcharged by a bunch. I personally think it was an accidental shooting. If you look at the slow motion or still shots it looks like he pulls the trigger at the same time he grabs Dubose/the seatbelt. Sympathetic reflex anyone? I don't think he will ever find a jury that'll convict. If I was Tensing I woulda went with a bench trial.

[TC215]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=34tmSM9MvVo


https://www.policeone.com/standoff/articles/241586006-Video-Tulsa-police-sniper-kills-armed-man-holding-child-hostage/

[Lon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=34tmSM9MvVo


https://www.policeone.com/standoff/articles/241586006-Video-Tulsa-police-sniper-kills-armed-man-holding-child-hostage/

I think I'd like to buy that sniper a beer.

[Kukuforguns]

I think I'd like to buy that sniper a beer.

I'd like to buy that child a teddy bear. Not criticizing the sniper.

[Peally]

"Things not to do when snipers are watching you #432: standing in open windows"

[Gray222]

"Things not to do when snipers are watching you #432: standing in open windows"

In his defense, he probably wasn't the sharpest spoon.

[Gray222]

Never fall for this type of bullshit. BG can hurt in jail or the hospital at the moment you control that MF'er.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cTsJWPTecg

[AMC]

Tough to talk on the radio when shot in the mouth, too. I hate to MMQB, but cops just get too close too fast too often. If it's serious enough to have your gun out, it's serious enough to wait for fucking backup behind cover! So he takes off! So the fuck what!?! Two subjects, dangerous enough to have your gun in hand, non-compliant and distracting? And you put your gun away and reach for his keys?!?!?! Cops have an almost pathological need to close and put hands on people when they shouldn't, 'cause 'close' equals 'control'. He even said it! "This is how I control you"! Guess not.

[AMC]

So re-reading my last post , it sounds a bit callous, which wasn't the intent. This stuff just enrages me, when good guys give up their advantages to bad guys, and give them the upper hand with tragic results. I was talking to my team last night about the "illusion of control" that cops fall into. We're trained to "control" situations, "control" suspects, etc. But the reality is we can only control ourselves and our actions. Absent physically overpowering someone, we can only convince someone to comply, and that's their decision. That need, that belief we can "control" the bad guy leads to a lot of risk taking and bad decisions when it isn't necessary. Yes, LE is a contact sport, and eventually we need to go hands on, but too often that choice is made too soon, and to the advantage of the suspect. We end up reacting to their actions or non-compliance, and give up the only control we really have.....of ourselves. Anyway, my 2 cents. Too Zen?

[LSP552]

So re-reading my last post , it sounds a bit callous, which wasn't the intent. This stuff just enrages me, when good guys give up their advantages to bad guys, and give them the upper hand with tragic results. I was talking to my team last night about the "illusion of control" that cops fall into. We're trained to "control" situations, "control" suspects, etc. But the reality is we can only control ourselves and our actions. Absent physically overpowering someone, we can only convince someone to comply, and that's their decision. That need, that belief we can "control" the bad guy leads to a lot of risk taking and bad decisions when it isn't necessary. Yes, LE is a contact sport, and eventually we need to go hands on, but too often that choice is made too soon, and to the advantage of the suspect. We end up reacting to their actions or non-compliance, and give up the only control we really have.....of ourselves. Anyway, my 2 cents. Too Zen?

I think we can control must situations pretty easily. It just requires a level of force that most cops, and administrations, are no longer comfortable with. Completely agree with your comments about trying to do stuff when it's best to wait for backup. I'm talking about the mindset and public and administration BS that has killed the concept that some people really need a serious use of force.

[iWander]

I think we can control must situations pretty easily. It just requires a level of force that most cops, and administrations, are no longer comfortable with. Completely agree with your comments about trying to do stuff when it's best to wait for backup. I'm talking about the mindset and public and administration BS that has killed the concept that some people really need a serious use of force.
And we frequently don't use SUFFICIENT force QUICKLY enough. Instead, we hesitate, talk when we should act, give the BG time to think/act/take advantage of us, or use a lower level of force than is lawful or necessary, and the situation spins out of control.
How many times have we seen officers repeat the same command over and over when he or she could lawfully stop the BG's actions and the BG continues maintain control of the situation? Or go hands on/use a Taser/use a baton when it's clearly a lethal force situation? And then the officer of public are hurt or killed.
I'm all for de-escalation when appropriate; but when it's time to talk then talk... When it's time to act then act. And do it quickly, decisively and keep going until the BG has decided to submit or no longer has a choice.

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVdu0U7QQ8

Good slow approach, would have preferred a more deliberate clearing of all corners as he got closer. Good discharge.

[rojocorsa]

Not sure how to embed a video from FB exactly, but here goes:

https://www.facebook.com/ABC10News/videos/1301187389923740/

[Coyotesfan97]

Good dog! Great deployment.

[Peally]

Good dog! Great deployment.

MR. KIBBLES IS NOT PLEASED BY YOUR ACTIONS

[Peally]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVdu0U7QQ8

Good slow approach, would have preferred a more deliberate clearing of all corners as he got closer. Good discharge.

Perp: "It fucking hurts!"

EMT: "Yeah, yeah..."

:D

[John Hearne]

ND into suspect: https://www.calibrepress.com/2016/12/bodycam-officer-unintentionally-shoots-burglary-suspect-back/?utm_source=Calibre+Press+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2207788d9b-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_12_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcd0c1c239-2207788d9b-177265417

[Gray222]

ND into suspect: https://www.calibrepress.com/2016/12/bodycam-officer-unintentionally-shoots-burglary-suspect-back/?utm_source=Calibre+Press+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2207788d9b-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_12_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcd0c1c239-2207788d9b-177265417

http://img.pandawhale.com/52252-George-Carlin--This-Is-Why-We-t9bE.jpeg

He's lucky I am not a boss in that PD. I'd instantly reassign every single person who was responsible for that officer being qualified with a firearm.

[AMC]

http://img.pandawhale.com/52252-George-Carlin--This-Is-Why-We-t9bE.jpeg

He's lucky I am not a boss in that PD. I'd instantly reassign every single person who was responsible for that officer being qualified with a firearm.

It is likely that the "bosses" at that agency are responsible for poor or negligent training, both legally and morally.

[Gray222]

It is likely that the "bosses" at that agency are responsible for poor or negligent training, both legally and morally.

They are all culpable...unfortanutely. It is something we see in many PD's nationally.

[Shellback]

Be safe out there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHYccMSkJ4

[Gray222]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

Hands guys, hands, it ain't a joke.

[Doc_Glock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

Hands guys, hands, it ain't a joke.

And know how to get a tourniquet on yourself.

[iWander]

Be safe out there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHYccMSkJ4
Wait for back up if possible when you're making an arrest. Disengage and back off. I learned that the hard way.
For the dog handlers out there, any idea why the dog seemed confused and wouldn't bite the offender?

[iWander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

Hands guys, hands, it ain't a joke.
Again, tactics. Even if they didn't know he was out on bond for attempted murder, he was driving a stolen car! Why wasn't he cuffed?!

[John Hearne]

Don't see this much these days, officers properly uses deadly force to stop an armed, fleeing carjacking suspect:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/28/denver-police-officer-not-charged-shooting-17-year-old-suspect/

(And I'm amazed that in 2016, someone can't hookup the park kill function on the siren)

[El Cid]

Wait for back up if possible when you're making an arrest. Disengage and back off. I learned that the hard way.
For the dog handlers out there, any idea why the dog seemed confused and wouldn't bite the offender?

It looks to me like the dog bites the subject on the leg and the guy yells. But the fight puts the officer between the dog and him, with the vehicle door in the way. I have to say - I LOVE those K9 door remotes!!

[Coyotesfan97]

It looks to me like the dog bites the subject on the leg and the guy yells. But the fight puts the officer between the dog and him, with the vehicle door in the way. I have to say - I LOVE those K9 door remotes!!

The door poppers can definitely save your butt! It's really hard to comment when you don't know the experience level of the dog. How long has he worked the streets? How many street bites does he have? How "hard" is the dog and what kind of training does he have to prepare for the 1%er? That was a good leg bite but he released and seemed confused. The more pressure you put on a dog in training the better he'll perform on the street.

[Shellback]

Don't see this much these days, officers properly uses deadly force to stop an armed, fleeing carjacking suspect:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/28/denver-police-officer-not-charged-shooting-17-year-old-suspect/

(And I'm amazed that in 2016, someone can't hookup the park kill function on the siren)
Now he's got a reason to walk with that gangster limp.

[iWander]

Ugh. I made the mistake of reading some of the article's comments. My brain is hurting now

[Shellback]

Ugh. I made the mistake of reading some of the article's comments. My brain is hurting now

Ghostery blocks comments. ;)

[El Cid]

The door poppers can definitely save your butt! It's really hard to comment when you don't know the experience level of the dog. How long has he worked the streets? How many street bites does he have? How "hard" is the dog and what kind of training does he have to prepare for the 1%er? That was a good leg bite but he released and seemed confused. The more pressure you put on a dog in training the better he'll perform on the street.

Makes sense. I've never been a K9, but I love having them around. It did appear the dog got excited as soon as the overheads came on. Not sure if he learned to recognize that as an indicator of impending fun or of he was feeding off the handler.

[Coyotesfan97]

Shoot it's not just the lights they pick up the click the mic makes when you pull it from the clasp, the first click of the lights being turned, the beep from the radio encryption kicking in etc. They know all of this could mean time to play.

On traffic stops my guy barks the whole time I'm out of the car. It's a good deterrent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

Don't see this much these days, officers properly uses deadly force to stop an armed, fleeing carjacking suspect:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/28/denver-police-officer-not-charged-shooting-17-year-old-suspect/

(And I'm amazed that in 2016, someone can't hookup the park kill function on the siren)

DPD are good people. Have interacted with them many times both inside and outside the ER, nothing but good things to say. Glad he's not going to go through some 3 ring circus for appropriately using force.

[Gray222]

Ugh. I made the mistake of reading some of the article's comments. My brain is hurting now

Don't read the comments.....never read the comments...

[Coyotesfan97]

Don't read the comments.....never read the comments...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161217/44f34167274129acce59b80b6781f2fd.jpg

Never get out of the boat!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gray222]

http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/9d4c

[TGS]

http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/9d4c

Am I the only one who thinks this dude is up in line for a Darwin award?

Playing with a toy gun in public on an open sidewalk. Great idea.

[Drang]

http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/9d4c

Please tell me I'm not the only one whose BS meter is pegged...

[Gray222]

Satire...But funny.

[Coyotesfan97]

Got some of that "protein" powder in there

[HCountyGuy]

Recent incident involving a deputy in the county just north of me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdsnjn3PwcI

The deputy is certainly lucky to be alive after this incident. This could've been much worse, especially considering his reluctance to respond with lethal force in a more timely fashion.

[PearTree]

Recent incident involving a deputy in the county just north of me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdsnjn3PwcI

The deputy is certainly lucky to be alive after this incident. This could've been much worse, especially considering his reluctance to respond with lethal force in a more timely fashion.
That video was painful to watch. So many issues going on. He is most certainly lucky to be alive.

[blues]

Quite a few WTF? moments there. Thanks for posting. I'm really glad the deputy survived the encounter.

[breakingtime91]

Listened to a podcast the other day that spent a good time talking about warrior mindset. Watching that video made me think of just that and how this guy needs to try to learn it.

[psalms144.1]

Recent incident involving a deputy in the county just north of me.

The deputy is certainly lucky to be alive after this incident. This could've been much worse, especially considering his reluctance to respond with lethal force in a more timely fashion.I just HAVE to know the back story on this. What was the call? Why did the deputy jump the fence into the yard? What was all the random noise throughout, and what was the deputy doing, waiting for the shooter to return?

And, I will NOT judge someone else's actions under fire, but, DAMN, son! Luck (and bad shit head shooting) is the only reason that deputy made it out that day.

[HCountyGuy]

I just HAVE to know the back story on this. What was the call? Why did the deputy jump the fence into the yard? What was all the random noise throughout, and what was the deputy doing, waiting for the shooter to return?

And, I will NOT judge someone else's actions under fire, but, DAMN, son! Luck (and bad shit head shooting) is the only reason that deputy made it out that day.

Original call was for a welfare check.

Here's a transcript of the highlights composed by someone else


"OK, for those like me with short attention spans, here are some approximate time markers/call summary notes:

01:00 minute mark: Deputy jumps locked property entry gate
04:41: knock on property door, "Hello..." (no ID as po-po) dogs bark
05:13: Deputy again starts calling, "Hello..." (no ID as po-po) dogs continue barking
06:25: deputy begins knocking on doors/windows
06:56: can hear footsteps, deputy knocks again at another location
07:22: more knocks on property walls/doors
08:35: deputy runs GA/plate of Toyo Tacoma in driveway
09:28: suspect vehicle arrives in view of patrol car ICV, visibly armed, surveys empty patrol car
09:59: deputy radio traffic; aforementioned vehicle in driveway, no one answering door
- simultaneously, suspect opens entry gate to property
10:25: suspect in view of ICV walking around patrol car
10:50: suspect pulls his truck inside of property, exits his truck, and fires two (2) rounds at the patrol car."
- deputy hears shots and yells off camera, "Whoah! Sheriff's Office! Sheriff's Office!"
11:04: deputy broadcasts, "Shots fired," off camera.
Female passenger can be seen exiting passenger side of suspect truck
11:07: deputy again calls out, "Sheriff's Office!"
11:29: suspect closes and LOCKS property entry gate
11:53: suspect leads female passenger back to the truck, drives into property and out of ICV view
12:00: deputy says, "Sheriff's Office," and truck approach can be heard on deputy's portable mic
12:07: deputy yells *unintelligible*
12:10: deputy yells, "Put it down, put it down! Please! Put it down!"
12:14: deputy yells, "No! No!"
- 1 shot heard, 2nd shot one second after
12:30: deputy back in ICV view running towards patrol car, but without his patrol jacket on
12:35: suspect now in ICV view running after deputy down driveway towards patrol car
12:45: deputy clears climbing over gate, out of camera presumably at rear of patrol car
12:49: deputy yells, "Please, please don't do it!"
12:50: suspect arrives at entry gate and begins to fire upon the deputy
12:51: deputy returns fire and suspect clutches RT side with LFT hand, appears to have taken a round, then takes cover behind the gatepost
12:56 after a volley of fire (suspect fires 2 more times, deputy fires once after inital exchange), suspect disengages and runs back up the driveway and out of view of the ICV
13:00: deputy broadcasts, "I'm hit!"
13:14: deputy is back in vehicle, backs out of driveway
13:22: deputy is back onto the roadway and drives away (following all traffic laws)
14:45: deputy has now controlled breathing enough and calmed down enough to broadcast that he is shot, suspect hit at least one time
15:20: deputy broadcasted, "I think I was just grazed."

[TAZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

Hands guys, hands, it ain't a joke.

Assuming the suspect had a gun and shot officer 1. Aside from the whole why did they allow a suspect to keep his hands in his pockets (DGF how cold it is), but is first aid not something that is taught at Academy? Officer #2 seemed like he had no clue what was happening.

[Gray222]

Skip to around 4:20 (har har) and watch from there.

https://vimeo.com/197215943

Few things I noticed:

zero confirmation of contact down / not a threat anymore
zero attempt to disarm the contact in the immediate future (this is a priority btw)
one officer runs after a possible victim or another possible shooter (no sound so difficult to tell if they were shooting at each other).
90% of the responding officers on scene did nothing and therefore should not have arrived - yes I know its an assist, but do something
crime scene tape? can they not afford it?
medical treatment? why bother right?

lastly - zero hesitation from the officers that pulled up, guns out, used vehicle as cover and put bullets on the threat immediately, good stuff.

[Gray222]

Assuming the suspect had a gun and shot officer 1. Aside from the whole why did they allow a suspect to keep his hands in his pockets (DGF how cold it is), but is first aid not something that is taught at Academy? Officer #2 seemed like he had no clue what was happening.

To me, as I stated, it looked like the officer #2, who originally had the guy stopped was either brand spanking new or his adrenaline spike was so serious he forgot what to do.

[TAZ]

To me, as I stated, it looked like the officer #2, who originally had the guy stopped was either brand spanking new or his adrenaline spike was so serious he forgot what to do.

New or adrenaline spike are both scary as crap. I though that selection and training was supposed to weed out as best as possible the deer in the headlights folks. I know we aren't talking SMU level screening and training here, but that kind if reaction can't be allowed to happen when real people are bleeding.

[Peally]

Original call was for a welfare check.

Here's a transcript of the highlights composed by someone else

Sounds like if you have to plead, you should be shooting.

[Gray222]

New or adrenaline spike are both scary as crap. I though that selection and training was supposed to weed out as best as possible the deer in the headlights folks. I know we aren't talking SMU level screening and training here, but that kind if reaction can't be allowed to happen when real people are bleeding.

This is probably a topic worthy of its own thread, but honestly what else do we expect from modern academies and modern police training? It is the best* - asterisk is for lowest common denominator of training to meet state or city mandated requirements set forth by who? Paper pushing top brass who have not worked the street in decades and are as out of touch from street/patrol work as they are believe street/patrol workers are with "administrative functions" and my favorite bullshit phrase - "the bigger picture" of policing.

That younger officer failed the moment he stepped foot into that academy because the instructors at that academy failed the moment they took that position to teach that bullshit. Their supervisors failed the moment they agreed/signed off on that training and everyone above them failed for not allowed competency in training evolution.

The simple fact is that what worked 30 years ago may still work, but newer methods and newer concepts have been developed to allow for, in some areas of street/patrol work, to be radically different.

I have personally experienced both sides of this coin and that is why I seek out and find new types of training and point out shortcomings whenever possible, especially to LE. If we do not seek to evolve, we are setting our younger counterparts to a brutal awakening. But that is what goes on daily in LE training facilities in this country.

Do some try to change it? Yeah, totally, most of the time with good intentions but piss poor executions. People throw out the term "budget" as if that will help that officer get medical attention or, provide TQ's for the victims of the Boston Marathon bombing. All of a sudden budgets change to accommodate deficiencies experienced , funny how that seems to work...

[rojocorsa]

SFPD

https://vimeo.com/200115238

https://vimeo.com/200115710

[Doug MacRay]

SFPD

https://vimeo.com/200115238

https://vimeo.com/200115710

What a charming individual.

Fighting in a stairwell is never fun. Those ASP strikes aren't going to have much power behind them when you can't wind up your arm without hitting a wall. Similarly, deploying spray in a confined stairwell when you're below the target doesn't seem like a very good idea either. They are very lucky he didn't have a gun or the desire to use it. The suspect could have fired either through the gate or the window and had them dead to rights before they could have made it back down the stairs to cover. That was a tense video.

[Gray222]

https://youtu.be/qYdD3EwnEzQ

[Olim9]

SFPD

https://vimeo.com/200115238

https://vimeo.com/200115710

Am I wrong for thinking the officers were acting a bit antagonistic in the way they made a couple of remarks? Not saying they weren't justified in the shoot but some of the comments they made were pretty snide.

[Nephrology]

https://youtu.be/qYdD3EwnEzQ

that seems like...a lot of cops...?

[Gray222]

that seems like...a lot of cops...?

For an OIS and an officer shot?

That's about half the cops that show up where I work.

[Nephrology]

For an OIS and an officer shot?

That's about half the cops that show up where I work.

Did not see that there was an office shot - did I miss that somewhere?

[Gray222]

Did not see that there was an office shot - did I miss that somewhere?

At the end, they were yelling "make a hole" and pushing an officer to a squad. Doubt that's anything else than an officer shot or injured.

Also that sgt on scene knows his stuff.

[Nephrology]

At the end, they were yelling "make a hole" and pushing an officer to a squad. Doubt that's anything else than an officer shot or injured.

Also that sgt on scene knows his stuff.

Ahh OK. These are things I would have never picked up on without interpretation - thanks for making sense of that.

[Gray222]

https://youtu.be/2c8fC0dZteQ

[AMC]

https://youtu.be/2c8fC0dZteQ

Gonna show this at roll call today. Down is not out.

[AMC]

Am I wrong for thinking the officers were acting a bit antagonistic in the way they made a couple of remarks? Not saying they weren't justified in the shoot but some of the comments they made were pretty snide.

You aren't wrong. When people are young and immature, sometimes they behave...... Immaturely.

[Lon]

Gonna show this at roll call today. Down is not out.

RIP Ofc. Corvinus.

[Gray222]

Gonna show this at roll call today. Down is not out.

Yep. "Shoot to the ground" plus "Shoot until there is no more threat" equals "Use the minimum force required to stop, and overcome, the threat."

[HCM]

https://youtu.be/2c8fC0dZteQ

Back story https://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/289485006-Video-Downed-suspect-fires-fatal-shot-at-officer-in-NM-gun-battle/

[HCM]

Assuming the suspect had a gun and shot officer 1. Aside from the whole why did they allow a suspect to keep his hands in his pockets (DGF how cold it is), but is first aid not something that is taught at Academy? Officer #2 seemed like he had no clue what was happening.

The world needs bartenders.

[blues]

The world needs bartenders.

What'd they do to earn your wrath? I just watched that video again. Sad from top to bottom.

[LockedBreech]

I feel sick to my stomach, I watched that video and was feeling victorious because they got the scumbag, then read through the comments here and realized he got one of the officers. Ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

What'd they do to earn your wrath? I just watched that video again. Sad from top to bottom.

That was directed at officer #2 - the one who initially had contact. I can see why officer #1 took over as contact. That should have been a clue to the rookie to pay attention.

It is sad. Better contact cover and subject control might have allowed this to end differently.

The suspect saw his chance and took it. #2, now the cover officer was not paying attention / doing his job. After the contact officer is shot, the cover officer is panicking and not listening to his partner. The officer who was shot did a good job keeping his head and trying to direct his partner but the partner is too flustered to listen.

The decision to wait for EMS vs scoop and go is dependent on local conditions. Luckily the third officer to arrive was on his game.

[blues]

That was directed at officer #2 - the one who initially had contact. I can see why officer #1 took over as contact. That should have been a clue to the rookie to pay attention.

It is sad. Better contact cover and subject control might have allowed this to end differently.

The suspect saw his chance and took it. #2, now the cover officer was not paying attention / doing his job. After the contact officer is shot, the cover officer is panicking and not listening to his partner. The officer who was shot did a good job keeping his head and trying to direct his partner but the partner is too flustered to listen.

The decision to wait for EMS vs scoop and go is dependent on local conditions. Luckily the third officer to arrive was on his game.

No, I'm sorry, HCM...I wasn't clear. I understand the criticism of the actions taken and we are totally on the same page. I meant why were you picking on bartenders specifically. (Poor attempt at humor on my part.) I do feel sorry for the rookie. He's going to be remembering that night for a long time.

[Gray222]

https://youtu.be/HfzR0tbl0Yg

Searching with WML - good

NOT clearing corners - NOT good

bunching up walking up stairs - NOT good

looked like a near friendly fire - NOT good

shooting till threat is stopped - good

not having a TQ on your person - NOT good

no one having a tq - NOT good

[Doc_Glock]

https://youtu.be/HfzR0tbl0Yg

Searching with WML - good

NOT clearing corners - NOT good

bunching up walking up stairs - NOT good

looked like a near friendly fire - NOT good

shooting till threat is stopped - good

not having a TQ on your person - NOT good

no one having a tq - NOT good

Shooting self in hand- NOT good. At least that is what it looked like to me.

[TC215]

Shooting self in hand- NOT good. At least that is what it looked like to me.

That's what the news is reporting.

[Gray222]

Shooting self in hand- NOT good. At least that is what it looked like to me.

It really did look like he was stabbed though, right? From the video?

Good example of improper training manifested.

[Doc_Glock]

It really did look like he was stabbed though, right? From the video?

Good example of improper training manifested.

I froze the video and his hand is bloody before the guy ever got to him. I think it was a startle, shoot support hand situation. Freeze it at 7:30-31.

[Gray222]

I froze the video and his hand is bloody before the guy ever got to him. I think it was a startle, shoot support hand situation. Freeze it at 7:30-31.

Still improper training, non shooting hand shouldn't ever be past your muzzle in the same area.

I'd be startled too if I didn't check the corner like I should have and some dude came out of no where with a flat head.

[octagon]

While it is great to review and attempt to learn from other officers action how to improve I think everyone should be careful not to be Monday morning quarterbacking critical of actions when viewing body cam footage in a dynamic incident they were not present at. It sucks when the uninformed media and court of public opinion does it but it can be hurtful and harmful when other officers do it in public forums. There are plenty of reasons not to use video from body cams as the only or major factor in after action review and training purposes some of which are limited view angle,movement,clarity of image, camera vs officer perspective (even with head mounted cameras but worse with chest or lapel mounted cameras), video compression, lighting differences between eyes and cameras etc. Dynamic close quarters violent confrontations that begin from surprise in an unknown cluttered environment and in low light are not likely to be pretty. Learning from the mistakes of others is fine and a careful review is beneficial. Making critical judgement without thorough investigation can be harmful when further details are not presented such as what the officers saw,heard,felt or experienced.

[HCountyGuy]

Tulsa PD Gang Unit members fighting with a thug who tries to pull a gun on them.


https://youtu.be/yYTBTw-_TCI

I've been watching this show for a while now, it has its interesting moments.

[octagon]

Tulsa PD Gang Unit members fighting with a thug who tries to pull a gun on them.


https://youtu.be/yYTBTw-_TCI

I've been watching this show for a while now, it has its interesting moments.

I just read yesterday that the show was cancelled or at least with that dept. Maybe it will carry on with others.

[iWander]

That was directed at officer #2 - the one who initially had contact. I can see why officer #1 took over as contact. That should have been a clue to the rookie to pay attention.

It is sad. Better contact cover and subject control might have allowed this to end differently.

The suspect saw his chance and took it. #2, now the cover officer was not paying attention / doing his job. After the contact officer is shot, the cover officer is panicking and not listening to his partner. The officer who was shot did a good job keeping his head and trying to direct his partner but the partner is too flustered to listen.

The decision to wait for EMS vs scoop and go is dependent on local conditions. Luckily the third officer to arrive was on his game.
Keep in mind the rookie officer was also looking to his superior for direction . We have no idea how they run that agency regarding arrests or other procedures. Neither of them cuffed when they had opportunities

[iWander]

It really did look like he was stabbed though, right? From the video?

Good example of improper training manifested.
I've never understood assumptions like this. How exactly does shooting oneself in the hand while moving away from a turd that just stabbed you, and falling/tripping backwards over the piles of crap all over the floor in a confined space equate to "improper training manifested"?

Even if he did shoot himself before he was attacked, how do you make the jump to improper training? Do you have knowledge of LMPD's firearm training?

I do hope the incident encourages the PD to issue tourniquets or at least officers buy and carry their own.

Link to the incident... It does say the officer had an "impact wound to the chest".
http://m.wave3.com/wave/db_338316/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=TeNNQs4d

[HCountyGuy]

I just read yesterday that the show was cancelled or at least with that dept. Maybe it will carry on with others.

The show is still active, actually comes in tonight.

Tulsa got cancelled out because of some locals bitching, basically upset that folks were getting a view of how crappy their town could be. Similar things have happened with shows like COPS and The First 48 in various municipalities. Folks don't like the truth about their cities.

[Larry Sellers]

Bridgeport cancelled.....natives complained to the mayor who coincidentally was re elected after his time in prison. Can't make this shit up


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

Bridgeport cancelled.....natives complained to the mayor who coincidentally was re elected after his time in prison. Can't make this shit up


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like Bridgeport!

[John Hearne]

I just love the lengths people will go to in order to deny reality. Bad stuff will still keep happening in their towns but they won't see it or know about it......

[iWander]

I just love the lengths people will go to in order to deny reality. Bad stuff will still keep happening in their towns but they won't see it or know about it......
If we acknowledge it occurs then we might be responsible to help change it

[Nephrology]

It we acknowledge it occurs then we might be responsible to help change it

Don't know if you guys knew this, but it's your fault. If you would just stop it with the po-leese brutality, maybe gangsters wouldn't have to shoot each other over turf wars and baby mama drama. I mean, duh.

[John Hearne]

If we acknowledge it occurs then we might be responsible to help change it

Or at the very least, be prepared to deal with it....

[Doug MacRay]

Here's an unusual one involving an off-duty officer that is making the rounds. Seems like a possible ND during a scuffle after drawing offhand from an AIWB holster.

Backstory can be found here: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/officer-744688-duty-juveniles.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoSkCGrRAQg

[vcdgrips]

If you choose to put yourself in that position as an off duty officer, does that counsel for always carrying pair of cuffs, cuffing and grounding the "detainee" as well as carrying some OC to have the ability to back some folks up before drawing the weapon?

R/S

DB

[Doug MacRay]

Here's an unusual one involving an off-duty officer that is making the rounds. Seems like a possible ND during a scuffle after drawing offhand from an AIWB holster.

Backstory can be found here: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/officer-744688-duty-juveniles.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoSkCGrRAQg

Well, I can't figure out how to edit my original post, but here is an updated article with better video angles. It looks pretty clearly like an ND. When the officer reaches to drag the suspect over the bushes he has the pistol in his offhand and it goes off. It looks like he used the same hand holding the pistol to grab the suspect's pants. When he gripped the clothing the gun fired. He did not appear to be aiming the pistol at anything in particular.

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/off-duty-lapd-cop-fires-gun-during-after-school-melee-with-anaheim-teens-7918977

[Hambo]

Here's an unusual one involving an off-duty officer that is making the rounds.

I'll just address the wisdom of getting into an argument with kids. A friend's wife once said that we should really be able to out think our kids, it's just that we're often tired, worn down, etc. If you want to tell kids to stay off your lawn, ask yourself, and what happens then? The little shits tell you to go fuck yourself, that's what. And what happens then? You get into it with a kid or their parents. Video ends up on the news because the little shits record everything. You end up on the news or talking to LEOs. However, if you bite your tongue and go to the garden store, lots of thorny plants will do the job for you. ;)

[octagon]

Here again we need more info to reliably determine what happened other than what does look like a ND in poor choices situation by the off duty officer. Early in the video there is comments between the kid being held and the off duty about each being struck and the off duty commenting on how the kid said something to the effect of shooting the officer. More discussion on the kid saying the off duty officer identified himself but the kid doesn't believe it(that seemed like comments for the visible cameras) In the comment there is discussion on it appearing like the off duty stepped in to assist a girl who was being harassed or having her backpack taken by the kid being held( I didn't see or hear anything at all that backs this up but it is possible) Depending on what actually took place before the cameras started or what they captured could change the reasonableness of the off duty officers actions but so far it doesn't seem to look or sound like a good decision. Once he is assaulted by multiple subjects (visible on camera) and with said subjects being not much smaller than he is I don't have an issue with drawing the weapon. His draw however appeared cumbersome and with sympathetic muscle contraction something that should be well known and he should be aware of through basic training levels he really shouldn't have continued with holding the kid and his weapon. With 20/20 hindsight regardless of what happened before he should have let it go but who knows how things escalated and what transpired to possibly force his intervention.

There may have been a more serious assault and only 1 or 2 kids present at the time with more appearing and getting involved later. It may have been just over trespassing on grass with a bunch of kids already present. We'll eventually find out more but it is too late for the protest have already began and the court of public opinion has already convened.

Based on what is visible in the video I think it likely would have been better if the off duty intervened in some real crime(assault not walking on grass) and the kid hit him. The response should have been more aggressive quicker to prevent the planning and escalation by his friends and video coverage of it. For example the kids hits and the officer grabs onto him. Identify himself and if the kid continues to struggle or attempts another hit the officer does a quick aggressive take down and holds the kid pinned to the ground while calling police and advising others to stay back and/or call the police as well. This very likely would not be on video but could be articulated continuously until the comments were and the start of any video would be him holding a kid on the ground saying he was a LEO and to call police and stay back. Looks and sounds better than what we have here and less risk of group assault and escalation to guns. Again this is 20/20 hindsight based on limited facts and conjecture which will likely change with more info. If this was over something minor like grass damage or trespassing it should have been ignored or dealt with more adult like as Hambo addressed.

On the subject of restraints off duty. I used to carry a set of HD nylon restraints that were like a loop of 550 cord with a sinching mechanism in the middle. These weighed about an ounce or less and fit in a pocket like a shoelace. I never planned on using them for restraint unless the extremely rare circumstances would have allowed it with assistance. Better to have them just in case but few circumstances where they would be reasonable to use. I no longer carry them as the focus of my actions in retirement has made it even less likely to ever be reasonable but they are cheap.lightweight very easy to carry and very small package that may work if someone is looking for a possible solution to off duty restraints.

[Shellback]

If you want to tell kids to stay off your lawn, ask yourself, and what happens then? The little shits tell you to go fuck yourself, that's what. And what happens then? You get into it with a kid or their parents. Video ends up on the news because the little shits record everything. You end up on the news or talking to LEOs...
That and your house is now labeled as a target of opportunity for them and all their little buddies. Word will spread in and amongst their friends and classmates that the guy is a cop, he's a "dick", and he's easy to get wound up so let's go fuck with him in our free time.

[Peally]

Frozen paintballs when they're not looking?

[LockedBreech]

Don't mess with teenagers, man. They're mean, they don't understand consequences, and society protects them like delicate flowers.

I have the exact same reaction as Liz Lemon in 30 Rock when I see teenagers on the street. Hiss "YOUTHS," pull my jacket over my face, and cross the street.

[Shellback]

Identify himself and if the kid continues to struggle or attempts another hit the officer does a quick aggressive take down and holds the kid pinned to the ground while calling police and advising others to stay back and/or call the police as well...

Identify himself how? Do you mean by presenting a badge or identification? Or do you mean simply stating he's a police officer? From the video it doesn't appear that he shows any type of ID.

The kid's side (http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/christian-dorscht-anaheim-lapd-cop-officer-video-protests-shooting-shots-video-injuries-photos-father-mother-gofundme/) is the officer called a girl a cunt, for walking on the grass, and he was sticking up for the girl... Not saying that's right or not. Side note, kid's stepfather is an officer as well.

[blues]

Identify himself how? Do you mean by presenting a badge or identification? Or do you mean simply stating he's a police officer? From the video it doesn't appear that he shows any type of ID.

The kid's side (http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/christian-dorscht-anaheim-lapd-cop-officer-video-protests-shooting-shots-video-injuries-photos-father-mother-gofundme/) is the officer called a girl a cunt, for walking on the grass, and he was sticking up for the girl... Not saying that's right or not. Side note, kid's stepfather is an officer as well.

There's a recipe for tragic consequences.

[octagon]

Identify himself how? Do you mean by presenting a badge or identification? Or do you mean simply stating he's a police officer? From the video it doesn't appear that he shows any type of ID.

The kid's side (http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/christian-dorscht-anaheim-lapd-cop-officer-video-protests-shooting-shots-video-injuries-photos-father-mother-gofundme/) is the officer called a girl a cunt, for walking on the grass, and he was sticking up for the girl... Not saying that's right or not. Side note, kid's stepfather is an officer as well.

Yes in my hypothetical situation I meant identify himself verbally as presenting an ID would be difficult. In the actual situation it sounds like he identified himself to the kid also verbally but the kid didn't believe it which sounds like the kid is saying that for camera purposes but I could be wrong. To present a visual ID I suppose the officer could have a belt worn badge and clear his cover garment to display that or a neck worn badge and remove it from under his shirt with his free hand before he drew but both may not be or have been options.

Edit: I just read and watched the second (closer) video of the incident included in the link Shellback posted. It sure seems as though the incident was some how related or started over walking on or damaging the officers grass/lawn. If that is the case it sure makes the officer look very bad and he should be held responsible for his initiation and escalation of the incident. However we are still only getting partial information mostly from one side of the involved parties so I'll hold my judgement primarily to how bad it looks and sounds so far.

[Shellback]

Yes in my hypothetical situation I meant identify himself verbally as presenting an ID would be difficult. In the actual situation it sounds like he identified himself to the kid also verbally but the kid didn't believe it which sounds like the kid is saying that for camera purposes but I could be wrong. To present a visual ID I suppose the officer could have a belt worn badge and clear his cover garment to display that or a neck worn badge and remove it from under his shirt with his free hand before he drew but both may not be or have been options.

Personally, I would think presenting an ID, or having one at the ready, prior to interjecting oneself into a hypothetical argument amongst teenagers would be wise. It obviously wasn't a life or death "oh shit!" type of situation and could've possibly prevented the escalation. Just spitballing...

The problem I see is any wingnut can verbally identify themselves as the police. If that were my child, and they resisted a complete stranger dressed in street clothes, I certainly wouldn't admonish them for their actions.

ETA - Below.


Once he is assaulted by multiple subjects (visible on camera) and with said subjects being not much smaller than he is I don't have an issue with drawing the weapon...

Conversely, some guy claiming to be a police officer is assaulting their friend for something they perceive as trivial, they try to intervene and help him, the off duty officer realizes he's getting in over his head and draws his gun, resulting in an ND.

Definitely 2 sides and I'm just thinking out loud after digesting your post more. Either way, STAY OFF THE GRASS!!! :)

[Shellback]

Side by side video with more of what led up to the ND.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8jIPZ5CP9I

[octagon]

Good points Shellback. Along those same lines he could have and should have continued to advise others to stay away,stop resisting and call the police I/we will wait here. That helps to clarify the situation and give credence to his likely being a police officer and him holding the kid for authorities even without visual ID present. His overall actions,demeanor and appearance as well as if he responded from his residence or has in the past would lead reasonable people(if any were in the county that day) to believe this wasn't likely a kidnapping or assault on the kid but he could have and should have done a lot more to help clarify that. Add that to the fact he often was only using 1 hand and he could have presented a badge. He missed multiple chances to present a better overall appearance of reasonableness to anyone nearby and de-escalate or gain better control well before a gun was brought into the situation visibly.

I can understand him wanting to get back to his property and not let the kid go but that looks bad and is bad from several perspectives and if he ever planned on waiting for the police he should have just stayed put in the closest place he could to where the initial contact took place or where he could get the kid under control. My guess is that he spoke with a kid or kids while on his property and as things progressed the kid(s) walked or ran away as they insulted or assaulted him and it went from there to where the video started. That is a personal wild ass guess.

[Gray222]

https://youtu.be/FmQMOwffyYs

I've said it before and I'll say it again, F U C K de-escalation.

He's got a gun in his hand and he's walking around, two taser deployments do not work and what happens next? Nearly worst case scenario.

[PearTree]

https://youtu.be/FmQMOwffyYs

I've said it before and I'll say it again, F U C K de-escalation.

He's got a gun in his hand and he's walking around, two taser deployments do not work and what happens next? Nearly worst case scenario.
That is just painful to watch. I see this every day with co-workers, the indecisiveness to take the appropriate level of action. Thankfully the hostage and innocent bystanders were not harmed.

[Larry Sellers]

https://youtu.be/FmQMOwffyYs

I've said it before and I'll say it again, F U C K de-escalation.

He's got a gun in his hand and he's walking around, two taser deployments do not work and what happens next? Nearly worst case scenario.


not an LEO, but I watch LIVE PD....at what point is lethal force warranted as he makes those moves towards the unknowing hostage? Coupled with the repeated "it doesn't have to be like this" and "what's your name?" It just appeared fruitless, but again I drive a fire truck to pay my mortgage I only ask due to curiosity.

[Kukuforguns]

not an LEO, but I watch LIVE PD....at what point is lethal force warranted as he makes those moves towards the unknowing hostage? Coupled with the repeated "it doesn't have to be like this" and "what's your name?" It just appeared fruitless, but again I drive a fire truck to pay my mortgage I only ask due to curiosity.
I don't know the backstory, but lethal force was likely justified before the video begins. You have a subject with weapon in hand. The officers saw his finger on the trigger. The subject refused to obey all commands. The subject moved from an isolated location to a location with other people. The subject could have fired at an officer or another person in less than a second - which would have made it extremely difficult for the officers to prevent.

_______________
Edited to add the following:

The Police Center account has the following text associated with the video:

The Fairbanks Police Department released bodycam and dashcam video involving the fatal shooting of James Robert Richards from last year. Prosecutors say no charges will be filed against the police because investigators found the officer's actions were an appropriate use of force given the circumstances. Police were initially called to the scene after James assaulted two residents and threatened them with a gun. When police arrived the suspect refused to drop his weapon and comply with orders, resulting in the shooting.

Backstory strengthens my conclusion that lethal force was justified from the very beginning.

[FNFAN]

Yes, painful to watch. Once I've given clear commands without compliance and most certainly if I've had some type of acknowledgement that the commands were heard, a "yes,no,f-you." I'm looking for the best possible backstop. That could have gone soooo bad.

[John Hearne]

Do you get bonus points for dual wielding?

[Nephrology]

Do you get bonus points for dual wielding?

2 Berettas? yes. An AR and a Taser? not sure about that.

http://i.imgur.com/sBP0Dm9.jpg

[Hambo]

Wow, that sucked. Except for the officer that finally nutted up and shot him. That video should have been a lot shorter.

[PearTree]

-1 for running around with an unslung AR, then -5 points for having a tazer in the offhand as well. Definitely a facepalm moment.

[Larry Sellers]

-1 for running around with an unslung AR, then -5 points for having a tazer in the offhand as well. Definitely a facepalm moment.

I was waiting for the off camera cruiser to hit ramming speed and take the guy out....i've seen it done in the past....

[TGS]

https://youtu.be/FmQMOwffyYs

I've said it before and I'll say it again, F U C K de-escalation.

He's got a gun in his hand and he's walking around, two taser deployments do not work and what happens next? Nearly worst case scenario.

Wait....Did those cops LET him take a fucking hostage?

I try to not be too judgemental, but come the fuck on.

Imagine if that was your family member waiting at the bus stop. Holy shit, the choice words I'd have for those motherfuckers.....