Sellier Bellot: good ammo?

[gesundheit]

I have never shot Sellier Bellot and was going to buy its 9mm 115gr FMJ cartridges.

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol-and-revolver-detail.php?ammunition=9&product=67

Apparently it is Czech made but I have not seen it being shot at the local ranges and would appreciate feedback.

[jmjames]

I've shot 300 round of .40 and around 450 rounds of 9mm of it in the last few months, my local gun range often has it dirt cheap. I think that for cheap ammo, it shoots a bit better (*for me in my guns*) than most of the other low end brands. I noticed that the .40 absolutely stank and was very smoky, but the 9mm seems to smell fine, that might bother you if you are in an indoor range without good ventilation. I just picked up another 8 boxes (9mm) to compare it to Remington UMC and Magtech, since I was really unhappy with the last few times I went to the range with the UMB; I feel that it is shooting on par with Magtech and a bit better than the UMC (which seems to have been all over the place) but it may have just been me slowing down a bit too. Someone else here may have more extensive experience than me.

J.Ja

[TGS]

I've fired 1 or 2 cases of it in 9mm. I found it to be good ammo.....clean, stout recoil to mimic carry loads, reliable.

However, I'll never buy it again. The primers have a pink/red sealant which gets all over my fingers. Since I grab my shirt to clear my holster, it ends up getting all over my clothes.

Comparable ammo without the primer sealant would be Fiocchi.

[Suvorov]

I've fired a few thousand round of 9mm and my friend just burned through a case of it as well. I've never had any issues with it and would definitely buy it again. I think one of the big suppliers has it at a pretty decent price right now. I understand that they do make steel cased brass washed ammo which is cheaper but has all the issues associated with steel cases, so make sure you are getting the brass cased ammo.

[JV_]

FredM and I have been shooting it for years. If priced right, I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.

[gesundheit]

Thanks guys. SGammo has 1000 cartridges on sale for $190+shipping. I am going to pull the trigger on this after reading your reviews.

[JAD]

I've shot several cases of their 9 (particularly) and .45 over the years. The primer sealant doesn't come off for me (it does tumble off). The 9 brass in particular has a generous radius on the rim of the case head; I always felt like that helped it cycle, and case life was excellent in reloading.

[BaiHu]

I too have used S&B for years. It's my primary plinking ammo. I've gone through about 7k 9mm (over last 1 1/2 years) through my P30L and I've used another 3k of .45 on my HK45. The red dye isn't on every case, but most of them. In the heat/humidity it tends to come off more. I find the best price for this ($208/case shipped-sometimes less) is if you're a club member of sportsmans guide dot com.

gesundheit:
thanks for the sgammo tip. I've never seen them before. They might be my new favorite purveyor of plinking pellets.

[TGS]

The red dye isn't on every case, but most of them. In the heat/humidity it tends to come off more.

That would explain it.

Virginia.

Summer.

Shooting indoors at "Sharpshooters" where the A/C gets it down to 91*. I know Fuse knows what I'm talking about.....

[Suvorov]

gesundheit:
thanks for the sgammo tip. I've never seen them before. They might be my new favorite purveyor of plinking pellets.

SGammo has always treated me well and between them and PSA, I get 90%+ of my ammo. They have good prices and their shipping costs are reasonable unlike a lot of guys out there (Natchess wanted to charge me $41 to ship a case of 9mm). They also usually have Ranger T and Fed HST ammo at good prices.

[jetfire]

I ran about 1k of S&B through my guns last year, for a while Surplus Ammo (http://surplusammo.com) (which is semi-local) had screamin' good deals on cases of the stuff so a lot of the local IDPA/USPSA guys were shooting it. The only complaint I ever heard was that it was loaded pretty hot for 9mm, but for 99.9% of the population that's not going to be a real issue.

[Tamara]

Other than the fact that the primers are harder than woodpecker lips, I've never had a problem with it.

[jetfire]

Other than the fact that the primers are harder than woodpecker lips, I've never had a problem with it.

Actually, that reminds me - I couldn't get reliable ignition on .45 ACP S&B with my 625, even though I had the action set up to reliably crack primers on pretty much anything. I also seem to remember some light primer hits with an XD or something, but that was a long time ago, before I kept good logs.

[Tamara]

Actually, that reminds me - I couldn't get reliable ignition on .45 ACP S&B with my 625, even though I had the action set up to reliably crack primers on pretty much anything. I also seem to remember some light primer hits with an XD or something, but that was a long time ago, before I kept good logs.

We tried to keep S&B on hand in gunsmithing for just that reason: If a gun'll bust a cap on S&B, it should light off anything.

[Suvorov]

We tried to keep S&B on hand in gunsmithing for just that reason: If a gun'll bust a cap on S&B, it should light off anything.

Good to know and goes to show that those guys were were telling me I could use an Elite 1 hammer with a "D" spring on my Beretta were wrong :)

[jetfire]

Try it first. If it lights the primer, it's good. Even if you get 95% ignition, it's still pretty decent practice ammo.

[smithjd]

Our dept used to get S&B ammo in 45. I never saw a problem with it in many thousands of rounds. We switched to Fiocchi and I have seen a few more stoppages that are unexplained. Also, Fiocchi has put small primers in their 45 cases, which aren't standard for reloaders when we try to sell our brass.

[Tamara]

Also, Fiocchi has put small primers in their 45 cases, which aren't standard for reloaders when we try to sell our brass.

Best I can tell, this is the wave of the future in our Brave New World. :(

[jetfire]

Federal Champion also uses small pistol primers in their .45 ACP as well. I remember when I popped a case open of it and my initial reaction was to do a double take, because I thought I had a box of .40 instead.

[Corey]

I got some CCI Blazer brass case .45 mixed in with my .45 brass at the range a while back. Discovered it was small primers while I was running it through my press. I thought it was .45 GAP at first.

As for S&B ammo, I like it. I originally started using it in 9mm Makarov. I have bunches of it in 9mm (115 and 124 grain) and .45 ACP as well as a couple of rifle calibers. I have always found it to be clean, reliable and loaded hot. Better than a lot of other ammo in its price range.

[techiej]

I've run about 1,000 rounds of it thorugh my 9 (Glock 17) without any problems or issues...never noticed any dye coming off and seems to shoot very clean compared to other brands.

[jetfire]

Speaking of S&B, I found their factory numbers for the 115 grain stuff. It is allegedly making 390 m/s at the muzzle, which works out to ~1280 fps for a whopping power factor of 147. In a minor cartridge that's pretty hot.

[jmjames]

Speaking of S&B, I found their factory numbers for the 115 grain stuff. It is allegedly making 390 m/s at the muzzle, which works out to ~1280 fps for a whopping power factor of 147. In a minor cartridge that's pretty hot.

Is that for *all* of their 115 grain? I ask, because my local indoor range carries it and sells it, and they don't like "high velocity" ammo because they are concerned about ricochets. I know that they are cautious about the .22 they allow, the .22 they sell is around 1230 fps max if I recall. Their comfort factor on speed seems to be around 1250 - 1300.

J.Ja

[jetfire]

I just ran their numbers for the 115 FMJ, I didn't look at the JHP.

[jmjames]

Wow, definitely hotter stuff than I expected from budget-grade ammo! Good to know!

J.Ja

[JMS]

That's why I've basically narrowed my practice-ammo acquisition to S&B 115, Speer Lawman 124 and Federal AE 124 ball. Even if that S&B 1280fps ends up being presumptive of a longer barrel than that in my guns, I know that all of those have the kind of snap to them that does a reasonable job approximating my carry ammo, and at a reasonable cost. Something like 12k rounds of it over the last 2 years. No wrinkles of any sort, to date

Ammoman's had S&B 115gr for $229 delivered (currently $239, though....), SG often carries it, so do lots of other vendors. Though not at the vaunted SGA/Aguila bargain-basement prices some have been able to take advantage of, S&B can be found for what I think of as reasonable prices. Disclaimer: I'm single/unattached/no kids, so coming in under $.25/round, delivered, is plenty cheap enough for me, given that the alternative is basically garbage ammo. That said, if one can find it for less, it's absolutely worth jumping on it.

Ammoseek.com can be a big help, and for pretty much any brand/type one can mention: http://ammoseek.com/?from=resultspage&gun=handgun&cal=82&type=target&grains=115&mfg=11&keywords=&sortby=cpr&.submit=Search

[dbm]

That's why I've basically narrowed my practice-ammo acquisition to S&B 115, Speer Lawman 124 and Federal AE 124 ball. Even if that S&B 1280fps ends up being presumptive of a longer barrel than that in my guns, I know that all of those have the kind of snap to them that does a reasonable job approximating my carry ammo, and at a reasonable cost. Something like 12k rounds of it over the last 2 years. No wrinkles of any sort, to date

Ammoman's had S&B 115gr for $229 delivered (currently $239, though....), SG often carries it, so do lots of other vendors. Though not at the vaunted SGA/Aguila bargain-basement prices some have been able to take advantage of, S&B can be found for what I think of as reasonable prices. Disclaimer: I'm single/unattached/no kids, so coming in under $.25/round, delivered, is plenty cheap enough for me, given that the alternative is basically garbage ammo. That said, if one can find it for less, it's absolutely worth jumping on it.

Ammoseek.com can be a big help, and for pretty much any brand/type one can mention: http://ammoseek.com/?from=resultspage&gun=handgun&cal=82&type=target&grains=115&mfg=11&keywords=&sortby=cpr&.submit=Search

Some time ago, I corresponded (via email) with a factory rep regarding velocity. Their ballistic data is based on a longer barrel (can't remember length anymore) and he calculated that from the 3.8" barrel of my CZ75 P-01, I would get about 1230 fps for the S&B 9mm 115 gr.

[JV_]

FWIW: Lawman 115g 9mm ammo is about 1200 fps, it feels quite snappy when compared to other target ammo.

[JMS]

So it's a fair statement to say that those of us with a 4.25" barrel are approaching, if not fully attaining, the advertised 1280....sweet.

Yeah, I'll buy the hell out of Lawman 115gr, too.

Also RE: S&B...it's a bit silly, but I also like the smaller boxes they use. ;)

[jetfire]

FWIW: Lawman 115g 9mm ammo is about 1200 fps, it feels quite snappy when compared to other target ammo.

I shot a bunch of that last year at Bianchi Cup. It was pretty snappy in my P250, but the trade-off was that it was extremely accurate for regular FMJ ammo.

[Packy]

S&b is the test round used by the cz plant for the cz shadow.

[JohnN]

I shoot S&B almost exclusively and found it to be consistent, fairly accurate and loaded hot.

Generally use the 115-124gr but for matches really like the 140gr subsonic round. Hits the hand a little harder but has less muzzle flip and because of the flat tip cuts a nice round hole in the target.

[mzs6]

shot this ammo almost everytime in my local range. never had a problem.

[ummm]

I shot 1000 rounds of "9mm Luger Sellier Bellot 115 grain FMJ Brass Case" that I bought from SGAmmo.

It all went bang, and it was not as dirty as the "9mm Speer Lawman 147 Grain Total Metal Jacket" I'm using now, but dirtier than the "9mm 147gr FMJ Winchester Super - X Subsonic" I shot before.

It's the only all-shiny-yellow ammo I've ever used. Didn't like the aesthetics, and I'm sure those unpleasant aesthetics were responsible for any targets I missed while using the S&B :p

[Savage Hands]

For how well it shot in my G4 G19 ,I'm going to try and practice with it exclusively.

[JAD]

It's weird, but I am especially a fan of the small boxes. Makes it easier to pack for a nooner.

[jmjames]

The 124 grain S&B 9mm has an almost identical muzzle velocity to the Federal HST 9mm +P 124 (P9HST3). To me, that says "cheap way to practice as closely as possible to carry ammo". :) It may be a bit more expensive than just grabbing some Blazer or Tula/Wolf, but I've like the way S&B shot for me too in the past.

J.Ja

[jmjames]

It's weird, but I am especially a fan of the small boxes. Makes it easier to pack for a nooner.

It's not weird, I am a fan of the boxes too. Why waste plastic and paper (incidentally, ever notice that 99% of what goes into the trash can at an indoor range is recyclable?), and take up more room in the bag? I go to an indoor range, the smaller boxes fit much better on the small shelf. You can fit them into a pocket if needed. I get why others do the bigger boxes, let's them use 1 size for everything and just change the plastic inserts, but the smaller boxes are more welcome to the consumer IMHO. I really don't care about standardizing the shelf space used up on my ammo rack...

J.Ja

[techiej]

I shoot their 115 exclusively when at the outdoor range...have gone through about 3,000 rounds now in my G17. Also shoots very cleanly.

Seems more consistent than Independence, Federal or American Eagle.

I pick some up whenever it is on sale at my LGS -- have paid between $10 - $12/box this year.

[cclaxton]

For 9mm,
I have found their powder leaves more black residue than Lawman, CCI Blazer, Jack Ross Reloads, American Eagle, and Remington.
It is about the same as PMC, Ga Arms reloads, and steel-cased ammo (Tula, etc.).

I also had a significant number of FTE's with my FNX-9 with Sellier Bellot.

Thing is: Nathezss.com has such good pricing on CCI Blazer and FreedomMunitions.com for reloads and Targetsports for Lawman I just don't need to look at it.

Some guys I know love it...40cal I think.
CC

[jmjames]

Thing is: Nathezss.com has such good pricing on CCI Blazer and FreedomMunitions.com for reloads and Targetsports for Lawman I just don't need to look at it.

Bad link... wouldn't mind getting the right one since I've been ammo shopping the last few days. :D

J.Ja

[bdcheung]

I also had a significant number of FTE's with my FNX-9 with Sellier Bellot.

I shot about 300 rounds of S&B 115g 9mm on Sunday and had 5 FTE's with my S&W M&P 9c. Granted, the gun had gone 1400 rounds without cleaning, but still... that's a lot of FTE's. I had shot 100 rounds of Aguila 124g on Saturday with nary a hiccup.

Cleaned the gun last night and we'll see if the S&B gives me any more problems.

[cclaxton]

Bad link... wouldn't mind getting the right one since I've been ammo shopping the last few days. :D

J.Ja

Check a user-supported price listing at:http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=9mm+Luger


http://www.natchezss.com/index.cfm

Also

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition.html

Also

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/c-2-ammunition.aspx

Also

http://www.jackrossammo.com/home.php?cat=

Also

http://www.freedommunitions.com/


I recommend all of them....all good quality and good service.
CC

[skoro]

I haven't used a lot of S&B, but I have gone through a few boxes over the past couple of years. It impresses me as good range/plinking ammo at a relatively low cost. I won't go out of my way to find it, but if it's available at a good price I won't hesitate to buy it.

[bdcheung]

I shot about 300 rounds of S&B 115g 9mm on Sunday and had 5 FTE's with my S&W M&P 9c. Granted, the gun had gone 1400 rounds without cleaning, but still... that's a lot of FTE's. I had shot 100 rounds of Aguila 124g on Saturday with nary a hiccup.

Cleaned the gun last night and we'll see if the S&B gives me any more problems.

Went through another 150 rounds of S&B without a hiccup. Must have just been a dirty chamber gripping the casing too tightly.

[Matt O]

I shot 2 cases-worth of S&B 115 grain last Fall. Overall, I don't remember having any complaints; however, I do remember that the 115 gr projectiles had a noticeably lower impact at 10 yards and beyond than the 124 gr ammo I was used to shooting so I switched back to 124 gr ammo after I depleted my S&B stash.

Looking over my records, my G17 did have 4 out of the 5 FTE's it has had in total while I was shooting that ammo. I honestly have no idea if the malfunctions were ammo related or not, as my G17 did have some initial teething problems, but it's an interesting data point nonetheless.