TV/Home Theater RFI

[RJ]

We've recently moved house into a small condo in the Tampa area. Since we've been ah, on the road for a while, we really don't have much in the way of stuff.

The Mrs. has given me a budget of $3K to provide a decent TV, BR Player and some type of sound system.

The room where this will be is about 12'x18', and the ceilings are about 9'. Our seating area will be about 9-10' from where the TV needs to go.

Now I'm familiar with how all this works, but will admit that I've been away from the market in home theater for a long while. Since I am not up to speed, really, I thought I would ask you guys for inputs, or comments.

To that end, any suggestions for sizing, features or capabilities would be appreciated.

Here's what I am leaning to:

- 65" 4K Samsung Ultra HD LED MU9000 Smart TV $1,700
- Samsung UBD-M8500 4K UHD Streaming Blu-Ray Player $165
- Yamaha YHT-4930UBL 5.1 Home Theater $459

If I'm missing something, or there's a feature I need to get, let me know. Thanks!

[luckyman]

I’m not very happy with my (3 year old?) Samsung Blu-Ray streaming. Takes a long time to establish a WiFi connection, and if you click on an app too soon after turning the player on you get an error message in Korean. Plus it freezes / has buffering problems way more often than the AppleTV in the bedroom.

[GOTURBACK]

Rich a couple of years ago when I was in the market I went to the avs forum and researched before purchasing my Samsung learned quite alot about the in and outs. Samsung at least at that time used different manufacturers to supply there led panels some were known to be better than others. I also acquired parameters for custom calibration settings there to optimize picture. I did not want a 5.1 system in the room so I went with a ZVOX system and am quite happy with it but it does not replicate a true full surround sound system.

[LOKNLOD]

Teddy Roosevelt was clearly shopping for TVs when he said "comparison is the thief of joy" - I finally went to the store to compare and ended up just picking one. :rolleyes: So, I bought an MU8000 last week. I went 75" and don't regret the upgrade in size, our seating area is closer to 12-14' away. It was replacing an old DLP 70" handmedown TV.

Nevertheless, I really like it and the 9000 is supposedly better so I think it's a solid choice. The smart features are really nice and probably redundant to the streaming blu-ray, so you might consider if you want to find a downmodel player that has less in the way of those bells and whistles (if such a thing exists). Also the corresponding Samsung soundbar might be a good choice for the sound system if you don't want to mess with a putting speakers around the room. We've got a 2.1 channel with wireless sub that does a good job of filling the room with sound if you're not an audiophile, and will be half that price (that's a case of ammo...).

[noguns]

IMHO I would stay away from a package audio system.
I would just use two tower speakers and a decent sub with an av receiver at that budget.
A bare minimum for me are a pair of Polk monitor 70s with a decent sub and av receiver.
TVs are way cheaper than they used to be and even mid range TVs have great quality.

[mmc45414]

Teddy Roosevelt was clearly shopping for TVs when he said "comparison is the thief of joy"
I agree, I bought a TV I never saw and a car I never drove and am very happy with both.

Everything has just gotten to be so good anymore.

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[JM Campbell]

Sonus sound bar will work excellent. Plenty of bass and sound. Best $599 sale I purchased last year, I’m now trying to swing outfitting the rest of the House.


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[orionz06]

Sonus sound bar will work excellent. Plenty of bass and sound. Best $599 sale I purchased last year, I’m now trying to swing outfitting the rest of the House.


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That one is rather killer and tops most lists. We just got the cheapo Bose and it's light years ahead of our old Samsung. I'd not look past a sound bar until I was looking at making a theater room and a sound bar wasn't loud enough. Screw wires.

[JM Campbell]

I also purchased the new One surrounds and a sub from sonus, pretty killer sound. Bad thing is I want speakers for the rest of the house.


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[holmes168]

Do you need a blu ray player? We have a Smart TV and definitely don't need a blu ray. Unless you already have the discs.

[BJXDS]

I am not really sure what the big advantage is with a streaming BR player as opposed to a non streaming BR??

My wife talked me into a 75" Samsung, which I thought was entirely to large, I thought a 55-65 would be fine, BUT now I don't think a TV can be to large.

[RJ]

Do you need a blu ray player? We have a Smart TV and definitely don't need a blu ray. Unless you already have the discs.

Good point. The 32” Smart TV we bought for the Airstream is...well...pretty smart.

I networked it so I can run it’s Amazon Prime app, or cast movies to it from my laptop.

I think we still have some BR disks lying around...or do we? Hmmmm...

[RJ]

Sonus sound bar will work excellent. Plenty of bass and sound. Best $599 sale I purchased last year, I’m now trying to swing outfitting the rest of the House.


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Hm. Ok but don’t you need a set of rear speakers behind you for the ‘surround’ effect?

Or is that old school now?

[RJ]

I am not really sure what the big advantage is with a streaming BR player as opposed to a non streaming BR??

My wife talked me into a 75" Samsung, which I thought was entirely to large, I thought a 55-65 would be fine, BUT now I don't think a TV can be to large.

I agree and got the ‘65” is plenty’ from SWMBO.

I’ll work on that with her. Any suggestions how to justify a 75” to the wife? :cool:

[JM Campbell]

Hm. Ok but don’t you need a set of rear speakers behind you for the ‘surround’ effect?

Or is that old school now?

The sound bar does a remarkable job of sound projection, hit up a Best Buy or local electronic store and take one for a spin on the floor.


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[Drang]

When it was time to buy a big screen TV we went to Costco and compared the images, since they usually have one of two or three different programs running on each of the TVs there it was easy to pick out the highest quality.
YMMV.

I would also take the size of the room you're going to be putting it in into account. We went with a 55" screen, which is plenty in our living room; we really think anything bigger would be too much. (There's probably a chart on the Internet somewhere...)

[HopetonBrown]

Spending $3k on something that encourages a sedentary lifestyle seems incongruous with your posted shooting and weight loss goals.

[JclInAtx]

Spending $3k on something that encourages a sedentary lifestyle seems incongruous with your posted shooting and weight loss goals.

He's going to hook up a wii fit and wants it to be as life like as possible...

On a more constructive note :
The Fluance AB40 sound base gets some rave reviews for it's price. It might be worth a look although it's short on features compared to a true htib.

If you go the separate speaker route the Andrew Jones designed pioneer speakers are excellent values. https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Pioneer+Speakers/SP-PK52FS

He then went on to Elac and worked on the Debut and Cinema which also could be in your budget if you stick to the bookshelf speakers.

All things being equal separate speakers will sound better, but only if placed properly. Soundbars can come very close and are definitely more convenient. I currently have a 5.2 system in my living room but have been thinking of going to a sound bar as the layout of the room is problematic and I get tired of hearing how the rear surrounds are always 'in the way.'

Monoprice is great for speaker wire and interconnects if you need them. No need to spend $ on fancy cables.

[scjbash]

Hm. Ok but don’t you need a set of rear speakers behind you for the ‘surround’ effect?

Or is that old school now?

I must be old school because I prefer having rear speakers.

Edited to add: in the price range of that Yamaha surround system I'd also look at Onkyo.

[peterb]

Spending $3k on something that encourages a sedentary lifestyle seems incongruous with your posted shooting and weight loss goals.

You can set up a bike trainer in front of it and run Zwift or Sufferfest videos! :D

[orionz06]

Hm. Ok but don’t you need a set of rear speakers behind you for the ‘surround’ effect?

Or is that old school now?

I used to think that but my little Bose sounds better than other 5.1's. The projection and fullness it has is just nuts.

[blues]

I used to think that but my little Bose sounds better than other 5.1's. The projection and fullness it has is just nuts.

Really? No exaggeration? I have a 5.1 setup and I've often wondered how good the new soundbars are and how close they come to individual components.

[JM Campbell]

I used to think that but my little Bose sounds better than other 5.1's. The projection and fullness it has is just nuts.

This is very true. I had a hard choice between the Bose and Sonus.


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[Wondering Beard]

Really? No exaggeration? I have a 5.1 setup and I've often wondered how good the new soundbars are and how close they come to individual components.

I don't have a 5.1, don't really know what that is actually, but I do have a nine year old Bose system with just front speakers and it moves the sound so well that sound effects on the screen that are supposed to come from, for example, the right, do sound as if they're coming from my right; so well, that sometimes I go look to my right to figure out what it was.

[blues]

I don't have a 5.1, don't really know what that is actually, but I do have a nine year old Bose system with just front speakers and it moves the sound so well that sound effects on the screen that are supposed to come from, for example, the right, do sound as if they're coming from my right; so well, that sometimes I go look to my right to figure out what it was.

The 5.1 has five speakers and a subwoofer. Left speaker, Center, Right and then a pair of rears. The rears provide the "surround" effect where it goes beyond left and right, (like some one entering from the right side of a room), and gives you the sense of being immersed...such as helicopters flying from left to right behind you and then moving forward...or being in a stadium by way of a couple of examples.

I know that the current technology is way ahead of when I last bought components and I wouldn't mind reducing the wiring.

Eventually, when my old Onkyo receiver gives up the ghost, I'll look into making some changes. For now, I'm pretty happy, especially since my old Infinity Reference speakers are going strong and have only needed to replace one woofer.

[Wondering Beard]

The 5.1 has five speakers and a subwoofer. Left speaker, Center, Right and then a pair of rears. The rears provide the "surround" effect where it goes beyond left and right, (like some one entering from the right side of a room), and gives you the sense of being immersed...such as helicopters flying from left to right behind you and then moving forward...or being in a stadium by way of a couple of examples.

I know that the current technology is way ahead of when I last bought components and I wouldn't mind reducing the wiring.

Eventually, when my old Onkyo receiver gives up the ghost, I'll look into making some changes. For now, I'm pretty happy, especially since my old Infinity Reference speakers are going strong and have only needed to replace one woofer.

Aah, thanks for the info :-)

My Bose system has just two small speakers and a subwoofer.

Like you I'm not looking to change any time soon and I'm sure Bose has gone way beyond what I have but I see no point in it as I'm enjoying myself just fine.

[RJ]

Sonus sound bar will work excellent. Plenty of bass and sound. Best $599 sale I purchased last year, I’m now trying to swing outfitting the rest of the House.


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Hey JM where’d you see this for $599?

We are just about there on the Sonos.

The reviews on Amazon are consistently outstanding. We toyed with adding a couple rears and a sub, but the heart stopping total for that made us pause. We’re going to see if it’s in stock at our local Costco to add to our membership rebate, unless I can find it for less than their $699.

[JM Campbell]

Hey JM where’d you see this for $599?

We are just about there on the Sonos.

The reviews on Amazon are consistently outstanding. We toyed with adding a couple rears and a sub, but the heart stopping total for that made us pause. We’re going to see if it’s in stock at our local Costco to add to our membership rebate, unless I can find it for less than their $699.

It was a promo deal through a local vendor late 2016. I have never seen that price since.

You can always add speakers at a later time.
I started off with the bar, few months later added the sub and then added two of the new Sonus ONE because Best Buy had them for $50 off and I saw them while shopping for my nephews Birthday.

I will probably upgrade to the play3 for my surrounds and move the ONEs to other rooms for music usage. There is nothing wrong with the ONEs or even the older Play1, I just want more cause you know 10mm reasons and stuff. ;)


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[JclInAtx]

Rich, got an email from Costco with a promo they're running for certain Samsung TVs through the 13th. 10% back on a Costco cash card if you buy a qualifying Samsung TV with your Costco Visa card. Not sure if the TV you're looking at is included. Here's the link from the email:

http://click.online.costco.com/t?r=2&c=121986&l=121&ctl=5285E3:157155315124DA963001CBE8BEA2F7974BAD797 B5EF9BCDE&

[JM Campbell]

Rich, got an email from Costco with a promo they're running for certain Samsung TVs through the 13th. 10% back on a Costco cash card if you buy a qualifying Samsung TV with your Costco Visa card. Not sure if the TV you're looking at is included. Here's the link from the email:

http://click.online.costco.com/t?r=2&c=121986&l=121&ctl=5285E3:157155315124DA963001CBE8BEA2F7974BAD797 B5EF9BCDE&

FYI Samsung and Sonos don’t play well together. There are reported issues on the Sonos website/forum about sound output loss for short periods of time. Has to do something with Samsung software, I didn’t look hard into it since I have Vizio TVs.


ETA: I have no clue why this super smart phone from Apple keeps correcting Sonos to Sonus.

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[RJ]

FYI Samsung and Sonos don’t play well together. There are reported issues on the Sonos website/forum about sound output loss for short periods of time. Has to do something with Samsung software, I didn’t look hard into it since I have Vizio TVs.


ETA: I have no clue why this super smart phone from Apple keeps correcting Sonos to Sonus.

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Thanks I’ll look into that.

My (minimal) thoughts are that I would connect the TV Optical output to the Sonos optical input.

[JM Campbell]

Thanks I’ll look into that.

My (minimal) thoughts are that I would connect the TV Optical output to the Sonos optical input.

That is how I have the playbar hooked up to my Vizio.


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[LOKNLOD]

That is how I have the playbar hooked up to my Vizio.


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Same here, and it’s nice because I leave the sound bar off and the TV outputs normally which is fine for tv, kids shows, etc. then if we’re watching a movie I can turn on the sound bar and get the bigger audio.

You can of course set it up to use the sound bar all the time, too.

[ranger]

One point is how will you control this system? Will you use multiple remotes, standardize on one brand so you can use one remote, use a 3rd party remote, etc.

[RJ]

Thanks I’ll look into that.

My (minimal) thoughts are that I would connect the TV Optical output to the Sonos optical input.

According to the chatter on the Sonos board, the issue was related to update 7.4. The Sonos rep indicated the fix was rolled into 7.4.1 and subsequent releases. The app is past release 8.0.

Reports of these issues seems to have dried up about 3 months ago, coincident with 7.4.1.

So I think we’ll go ahead and order the Sonos from Costco. If we need/like the sound, we may get the sub and a couple play:1 speakers. That’ll be $1,700 all in for sound, leaving me $1,300 for a TV.

We looked at several today and think we’ll opt for the Samsung 240FR 4K one.

I may just skip the BR player. With a decent internet connection these days I don’t see the point of optical media anyway. Can’t recall the last time I played a disk, to be honest.

Question on the Sonos, does it operate it’s own network, or can I add to my network?

I’m thinking of upgrading my hand-crank, steam driven WRT120N to one of those MU MIMO 2.5/5 GHz jobbies, but that’s another thread I guess.

Thanks again guys.

[RJ]

One point is how will you control this system? Will you use multiple remotes, standardize on one brand so you can use one remote, use a 3rd party remote, etc.

Pffft, that’s easy; I just set power on channel to HGTV. Done.

:cool:

[beenalongtime]

Something I haven't seen anyone ask, is you said Condo. How close are the neighbors, how is the soundproofing and do you have any noise restrictions?

I ask, because some of the condo situations I am aware of, I would just get the TV I was OK with (personal preference, not a smart tv, which is hard to find, as I could upgrade a computer that isn't IN the tv), a separate BR/DVD player (preference), audio tuner (my one is an older Yamaha at this point) and look at the 5.1 soundbar/soundbase (preference) setups. That would be good enough for TV and watching things like concerts, eliminate running speaker wires to rear or side speakers (in a 7.1 system), and wouldn't have the capabilities that some of the separate speaker setups, I have seen, do. (keep friendly with the neighbors)

[rob_s]

I did a Vizio tv and soundbar with subwoofer in the family room. Replicating the same thing in the living room, just scaled up.

It’s 2018. Unless you’re an AV nerd or watch more tv than any human should, separates, receivers, surround, etc just aren’t that’s important. If we didn’t also listen to music on them, and if we didn’t have vaulted ceilings that seriously screw with the acoustics and make the stock speakers on the TVs unintelligible, I doubt I’d even bother with the soundbar or sub.

[rob_s]

Re: Sonos, there are things to consider.

First, they are expensive. Maybe they are worth it, but they are expensive.

Second, it’s a proprietary network. So if you want to take advantage of the multi-room functionality you will forever be stuck in their system. Want to add a speaker to the kitchen? It will have to be Sonos if you want it to work on your network. If you go with Chromecast-enabled products then you can have the same multi-room functionality without being tied to just one, expensive, brand.

Third, wireless... isn’t. Their allegedly wireless products All require a Power cord. Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn’t. But we recently bought one Sonos product and it turns out the wife thought it was fully mobile, which it isn’t but there are other, again chromecast, products that don’t require wall power which means they are more portable.

Finally, Sonos owners are kinda like Moonies. I don’t know if that means the products are really just that good or if it means people that spend that much on a proprietary system are unlikely to acknowledge that they maybe didn’t make the best possible choice or that something may have come along since then that could be better for some people.

[orionz06]

Get a Logitech Remote (https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Smart-Control-Black/dp/B00BQ5RYI4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515415541&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+harmony+smart+control) today. Just got one this weekend and I wish I got this 10 years ago. It controls my TV, soundbar, Fios set top box, Xbox One, and more. I can use the app on my phone in cases where typing is required, I can add a keyboard if I wanted to use the TV as a PC, and so much more. The $69.99 price is about as good as it gets.

[orionz06]

Re: Sonos, there are things to consider.

First, they are expensive. Maybe they are worth it, but they are expensive.

Second, it’s a proprietary network. So if you want to take advantage of the multi-room functionality you will forever be stuck in their system. Want to add a speaker to the kitchen? It will have to be Sonos if you want it to work on your network. If you go with Chromecast-enabled products then you can have the same multi-room functionality without being tied to just one, expensive, brand.

Third, wireless... isn’t. Their allegedly wireless products All require a Power cord. Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn’t. But we recently bought one Sonos product and it turns out the wife thought it was fully mobile, which it isn’t but there are other, again chromecast, products that don’t require wall power which means they are more portable.

Finally, Sonos owners are kinda like Moonies. I don’t know if that means the products are really just that good or if it means people that spend that much on a proprietary system are unlikely to acknowledge that they maybe didn’t make the best possible choice or that something may have come along since then that could be better for some people.

Sonos is great in 2010. Their soundbar still remains to be one of the best. If one were to desire a home network of skynet type stuff then the Google Chromecast Audio is the better way to add the same functionality to cheaper speakers.

[RJ]

Holding fire on the Sonos.

Sensible Rich woke up this morning to say “WTF!! You are going to spend $1,700 on a STEREO!? Do you know how much ammo that is?!”

So we might check out the $250 Bose Solo at Costco.

[rob_s]

Get a Logitech Remote (https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Smart-Control-Black/dp/B00BQ5RYI4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515415541&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+harmony+smart+control) today. Just got one this weekend and I wish I got this 10 years ago. It controls my TV, soundbar, Fios set top box, Xbox One, and more. I can use the app on my phone in cases where typing is required, I can add a keyboard if I wanted to use the TV as a PC, and so much more. The $69.99 price is about as good as it gets.

My Logitech is spotty for some reason. Not sure if I don’t have something set up right or if it’s just janky. It only seems to work with several clicks of the button. If at all.

[luckyman]

Get a Logitech Remote (https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Smart-Control-Black/dp/B00BQ5RYI4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515415541&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+harmony+smart+control) today. Just got one this weekend and I wish I got this 10 years ago. It controls my TV, soundbar, Fios set top box, Xbox One, and more. I can use the app on my phone in cases where typing is required, I can add a keyboard if I wanted to use the TV as a PC, and so much more. The $69.99 price is about as good as it gets.

I installed that exact model over Christmas and it is excellent! Quite easy to set everything up; the only hard part was having to find a magnifying glass to read the model number on the back of the Samsung Blu Ray.

[RJ]

Right: $219 at Costco:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180108/292e580f414b8cdd019d385b5314fa01.jpg

Easy ‘install’ on this 22” compact sound bar by Bose. One Optical cable and power.

Sound is pretty impressive, I had the opening 18 pounder salvo of Master and Commander and obviously not as good as a dedicated sub, it was pretty damn loud and clear.

Thing is, if it doesn’t work out, it will easily work in the Airstream with the included Wall Mount under the 32” Smart TV we put in.

It doesn’t do a lot of whiz bang network stuff, nor make Expresso, nor chill wine, but damn it sounds pretty good. I did attach it to my iPad via BT, and have Pandora running Boston’s More Than a Feeling cranked right up.

I’m fairly happy with this choice, especially in our circumstances.

[RJ]

Ok, I found this at $599:

Polk Audio Surround Voice Adjust Soundbar Home Speaker Set of 4 Black (AM8414-A) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0753ZLK2H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_-O-vAbSBCE7YC

- Acceptable price point
- Separate rear wireless speakers (need AC)
- Separate Sub (needs AC)

Polk is a decent company right? Anyone know anything about this particular product?

Reason for question is that while we like the Bose, as far as the room-filling experience, it’s not there. Great, and as an option in the Airstream, definitely.

So I’m back looking for options. One thought I had was a bunch (5) of wireless speakers and a wireless sub, together with a central unit to assign channels to speakers logically on a WiFi network using some kind of VOI type protocol. Then I stumbled onto this Polk System that seems to do that for a reasonable price.

Thoughts?

[Hemiram]

Polk is decent stuff. Wireless is just asking for trouble in general. Bose? Please. In a motorhome, sure, but not if you can do better, and there are a thousand better options than Bose.

I gave up on wireless speakers a long time ago. Between the constant loss of connection where you have to reset it all the time, there was usually hum out of one or more channels. On top of that, it just didn't sound right. I gave up after friends had similar issues with other brands at all price ranges. Wires aren't a big deal if you do them right. Same goes for internet. Wireless is nice, but don't complain when it has issues. It's going to happen. I use wireless for my laptop once in a while, but my cable modem has a couple of spare LAN connectors on it, and I bought a really flexible cable to use with my laptop. Zero issues.

You haven't lived until you fall asleep at the end of a movie with the volume cranked up, and then suddenly hear, at earsplitting volume, complete with echo and roger beep:

"10-4, I'm gonna stop at the truck stop and get (oral sex) from one of the ho's there! Beep!". Cue dogs barking, cat clawing me and bailing out, and me swearing at the trucker with my heart pounding.

I lived next to the Ohio Turnpike most of my life. A linear on a CB will get into almost anything. Every TV I've ever owned used to get slammed from truckers and you would hear a few seconds of trucker speak every so often. A Sony TV was great, until we turned it off and the truckers were almost a constant thing coming out of the speaker(s). I traded it to a friend who decided he wanted a bigger TV. He lived about 10x as far away as I did from the pike, so it wasn't a problem at his house. The replacement TV would only spew trucker about one time a day when on, silent when off. I've heard truckers out of PC speakers, cordless phones of all types and years, corded phones, ham radios, and about anything else that made a sound. We had a nice toaster that the truckers got into a couple of times. I thought my mom had gone senile when she told me she heard voices coming out of it. A friend came over and I let him hear it. I wish youtube was around back then.

[vcdgrips]

Have you looked at Crutchfield? They were a go to spot pre internet days and still have some good stuff with real humans to talk with. Having said that as someone who sold "mid fi" at Macys way back in the day. Modest priced separate pieces geared for music will almost always do the trick better and cheaper in the sub 1k realm than any sound bar or similarly priced "Home Theatre in a Box" set ups.

i.e.

90 watt 5.2 surround sound Sony receiver at 149.00
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STDH550/Sony-STR-DH550.html


100 watt powered sub Polk at 179.00
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107PSW110B/Polk-Audio-PSW110-Black.html?tp=187

Bookshelf Polks at 149 a pair
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107TSI100B/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Black.html

Center channel speaker Polk at 99.99
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CS10B/Polk-Audio-TSi-CS10-Black.html

At this point you are at 579 shipped with a very capable 2.1 system.

Add these below and you are at 679 with a 5.1 system that is far more dynamic than most HTIB options and any sound bar both for movies and when you are listen to music, even streamed off of Amazon Prime/Pandora etc.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107OWM3B/Polk-Audio-OWM3-Black.html

YMMV Greatly.

PS- I have also thought that Bose stuff was a lot like Apple, it works well but it is significantly more expensive than comparably performing products if one takes the time to do a bit of research.

[RJ]

Have you looked at Crutchfield? They were a go to spot pre internet days and still have some good stuff with real humans to talk with. Having said that as someone who sold "mid fi" at Macys way back in the day. Modest priced separate pieces geared for music will almost always do the trick better and cheaper in the sub 1k realm than any sound bar or similarly priced "Home Theatre in a Box" set ups.

i.e.

90 watt 5.2 surround sound Sony receiver at 149.00
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STDH550/Sony-STR-DH550.html


100 watt powered sub Polk at 179.00
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107PSW110B/Polk-Audio-PSW110-Black.html?tp=187

Bookshelf Polks at 149 a pair
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107TSI100B/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Black.html

Center channel speaker Polk at 99.99
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CS10B/Polk-Audio-TSi-CS10-Black.html

At this point you are at 579 shipped with a very capable 2.1 system.

Add these below and you are at 679 with a 5.1 system that is far more dynamic than most HTIB options and any sound bar both for movies and when you are listen to music, even streamed off of Amazon Prime/Pandora etc.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107OWM3B/Polk-Audio-OWM3-Black.html

YMMV Greatly.

PS- I have also thought that Bose stuff was a lot like Apple, it works well but it is significantly more expensive than comparably performing products if one takes the time to do a bit of research.

That’s excellent. I remember those guys, for sure. I think they were around when I was building a Heathkit amp for my JBL 10” 2 ways.

Thanks for the links too, that might just work out. I hadn’t thought along those lines (Separate componentry) just yet.

[GOTURBACK]

I have a zvox they make both sound bases which your tv would sit on top of and sound bars, it also recieves Bluetooth audio from phone etc., some model come with a sub or you can add your own purchased separately. https://zvox.com They are supposedly the highest rated of all available sound bar systems the have a feature called accuvoice which enhance voice in programming it comes in handy for those of us with tinnitus.

[peterb]

That’s excellent. I remember those guys, for sure. I think they were around when I was building a Heathkit amp for my JBL 10” 2 ways.

Crutchfield impressed me way back when I was upgrading the stereo in my 1985 Civic. The wiring in the car didn't match the instructions, and the tech on the phone talked me through it with no problem.

I haven't dealt with them recently, but I think they still have the reputation of having well-trained technical help.

[peterb]

I have a zvox they make both sound bases which your tv would sit on top of and sound bars, it also recieves Bluetooth audio from phone etc., some model come with a sub or you can add your own purchased separately. https://zvox.com They are supposedly the highest rated of all available sound bar systems the have a feature called accuvoice which enhance voice in programming it comes in handy for those of us with tinnitus.

I got one of the zvox sound bases for a relative with hearing problems, and that feature does seem to enhance vocal clarity. Sound quality is much better than the built-in speakers. It's not good for surround though, which makes sense -- my experience is that surround makes things worse for somone with hearing issues.

[GOTURBACK]

I got one of the zvox sound bases for a relative with hearing problems, and that feature does seem to enhance vocal clarity. Sound quality is much better than the built-in speakers. It's not good for surround though, which makes sense -- my experience is that surround makes things worse for somone with hearing issues.

I think the ZVOX is just about as good at producing the surround effect as any other sound bar system I could be wrong, I'll agree that it is nowhere as good as a true 5.1 or 7.1 system.

[Bobcat]

Here is a link to a magazine that reviews a lot of this stuff
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/top-picks-flat-panels

[Shellback]

It’s 2018. Unless you’re an AV nerd or watch more tv than any human should, separates, receivers, surround, etc just aren’t that’s important.

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Movies, Netflix streaming, etc. on a good 5.1 system, or better, are like night and day from a sound bar.

I'm powering 5 Salk speakers and a JTR Captivator 1400 subwoofer. Guaranfuckingteed when you watch something like Wind River or Hacksaw Ridge on a decent sound system you'll understand the difference.

That's an 18" driver in the JTR (http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-1400.html)

https://i.imgur.com/80z4wW2.jpg?1

[Shellback]

The Sony UBP-X800 is the 4k UHD player I have and it's done very well for us. Streaming Netflix through the player is a vast improvement VS through the TV. Speed of connection and picture quality are vastly improved.

It's frequently on sale for $150.

[rob_s]

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Movies, Netflix streaming, etc. on a good 5.1 system, or better, are like night and day from a sound bar.

I'm powering 5 Salk speakers and a JTR Captivator 1400 subwoofer. Guaranfuckingteed when you watch something like Wind River or Hacksaw Ridge on a decent sound system you'll understand the difference.

That's an 18" driver in the JTR (http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-1400.html)



There's understanding, and there's caring.

I understand.

I don't care.

I don't spend much time watching movies at home to begin with, and certainly not enough time to *also* waste a bunch of time setting up a home theater.

[RJ]

Found another option. This Nakamichi unit has a wireless (BT) Sub, with the two rear wired speakers hanging off it. This would address the ‘no wires’ requirement.

Nakamichi Shockwafe Pro 7.1Ch DTS:X 600W 45-Inch Sound Bar with 8" Wireless Subwoofer & 2-Way Rear Satellite Speakers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W5T1QC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_Wf-xAbESA1E73

So far I’ve not found a home theater receiver that offers an open wireless option; they all seem to have their own protocol (e.g. Sonos).

[RJ]

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Movies, Netflix streaming, etc. on a good 5.1 system, or better, are like night and day from a sound bar.

I'm powering 5 Salk speakers and a JTR Captivator 1400 subwoofer. Guaranfuckingteed when you watch something like Wind River or Hacksaw Ridge on a decent sound system you'll understand the difference.

That's an 18" driver in the JTR (http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-1400.html)

https://i.imgur.com/80z4wW2.jpg?1

Wow that stuff looks nice. Outta my price range though.

What would come to your mind for the best sound I can get for under a $K for a 5.1 System, with no wires front to back (wires or sound bar ok for L/C/R, or for the Sub/LR/RR)?

[Bobcat]

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Movies, Netflix streaming, etc. on a good 5.1 system, or better, are like night and day from a sound bar.

I'm powering 5 Salk speakers and a JTR Captivator 1400 subwoofer. Guaranfuckingteed when you watch something like Wind River or Hacksaw Ridge on a decent sound system you'll understand the difference.

That's an 18" driver in the JTR (http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-1400.html)

https://i.imgur.com/80z4wW2.jpg?1

Oooh 16 Hz ��

[vcdgrips]

I freely admit I am not up on the latest and greatest. Having said that, my impression is that wireless hifi/home theater stuff is a lot like RDS on a pistol. When it all works, it works pretty well ..but still not quite ready for prime time under all reasonably anticipated conditions. Wireless anything can be glitchy at the most inopportune of times. I would stick with wires even if that meant 2.1 up front only because you want really want no wires in the back. (AV receiver, Center channel, L/R and powered sub is technically 3.1). YMMV greatly. I am anxious to see what you end up with and how it works out.

Edited to add:

https://www.crutchfield.com/learn/yamaha-virtual-cinema-front.html

Yamaha AV Receiver creates sound field so that when all five wired speaker (LF, SL, Center, SR, RF) when coupled with a sub are placed up front, you get the sonic impression of surround in the back. When coupled with the speakers I linked above, the new AV receiver (279 v. 149) would still have you under 1k. Food for thought.

[Shellback]

What would come to your mind for the best sound I can get for under a $K for a 5.1 System, with no wires front to back (wires or sound bar ok for L/C/R, or for the Sub/LR/RR)?

Personally, I would utilize a $1k budget to start with a 2.1 channel setup and add a center channel and rears as time and money dictates. I would look at ID (Internet Direct) companies to offer you the best bang for the buck. There are many reputable ID companies that will blow away what you can buy at your local store both in terms of performance and customer service. Many will let you test out their equipment for free, no gimmicks.

I'm assuming you want bookshelf type speakers. They will need a subwoofer to compliment them and offer you a more dynamic sound.

SPEAKERS:

Ascend Acoustics has a great rep CBM-170 SE $298/pr. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/spkrlist.html

NHT is another top contender https://www.nhthifi.com/products?categories=bookshelf-speakers

SVS has a great/free return policy (obviously built into the price) https://www.svsound.com/pages/speakers

For a subwoofer I'd look at SVS or HSU http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

Short on time but I can offer more later today...

[RJ]

Shellback those options look great, and as an ex-Sonar signal processing design guy, I get it.

I still have yet to find a 5.1 or 7.1 Home Theater Receiver Which will provide for a future option to run the rear or all speakers either wired or wireless.

Are you aware of any companies offering decent acoustic performance but can also assign channels uniquely on a network?

Here’s what’s in my head:

Base unit: With decoder to handle HDMI and optical inputs, and the ability to allow a logical assignment of each channel to 7 individual wireless speakers

Software addressable speakers: From 2 to 7 software addressable speakers, on either a BT or 2.4Ghz WiFi 802.11 network, that can be assigned as “channels” in a 5.1or 7.1 individually. Same for a powered sub.

I suspect I’m not going to find this at the price point I’ve set. My problem is what I envision would require speaker-Side amplification to drive the speaker array/port in the speaker enclosure. Having a decent power Amp is going to be $$$ as well as need AC power. For each speaker. On an individual speaker basis that seems inefficient, given what you can do with amplifiers with silicon on heat sinks in a stereo rack in one place.

Sigh.

I think I will go back to SWMBO and see if she will either relax the wire constraint on the rears, accept a proprietary all in one wireless system (for the rears, minimum), or up my budget.

[Shellback]

Shellback those options look great, and as an ex-Sonar signal processing design guy, I get it...

Sorry it's taking a while to respond. I coach my son's wrestling team and we've had a crazy busy schedule lately. I'm still putting thought into it... My wife has a love/hate relationship with my subwoofer.

https://i.imgur.com/JlhBXk1.jpg?3

[RJ]

No worries.

Here is the current one and done option:

Nakamichi Shockwafe Pro 7.1Ch DTS:X 600W 45-Inch Sound Bar with 8" Wireless Subwoofer & 2-Way Rear Satellite Speakers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073W5T1QC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_E2XAAb0WPPKTS

[RJ]

I ended up buying this Sonos system:

Sonos PLAYBAR TV Soundbar/Wireless Streaming TV and Music Speaker

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AEMGGU2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_i_as1cBb2E3CKEK

Sonos SUB Wireless Subwoofer. Works with Alexa. (White)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HL8KX64/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_i_kp1cBbXP920AT

Original Sonos Play:1 - Compact Wireless Speaker for Streaming Music. Metallic White. Works with Alexa.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EWCUK98/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_i_jr1cBbM1GK2XR

Sanus Wireless Sonos Speaker Stand for Sonos One, PLAY:1, & PLAY:3 - Audio-Enhancing Design With Built-In Cable Management - Pair (White) - WSS22-W1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0773GGJ95/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_i_qq1cBb5K2V1SM

Everything is WiFi enabled, so no wires. No Bluetooth either, which is a minus. Fortunately my Music, mainly Pandora, is available within the Sonos app.

Unboxing was impressive; all of the components are packed and wrapped extremely well. All of the fit and finish of the components seems very high quality.

Setup and tuning are fairly easy; I put the Sonos app on my older iPad. Aside from granting access to the speakers on my router for MAC address filtering, I had no issues, and was up and running in about 15 minutes.

The sound is rich and vibrant, with a lot of nice bass. Spatial directionality is very good. The two Play:1 speakers are small but seem pretty efficient as surround speakers.

We have plans to add another speaker or two in the bedrooms, so given the ability for them to network in easily, this Sonos seems to fit the bill.

Pretty happy with this system.

[JM Campbell]

Lol, welcome to the dark side ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Lol, welcome to the dark side ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What JM said above Rich as I've been using a sim. setup here for a yr.+ in the living room > Sony XBR65X900C w/ a Sonos PlayBar & 2 Sonos Play 3's to have 5.1 surround sound.

Used a Black Fri. coupon last Nov. to buy a pair of Sono's Ones w/ Sanus wall mounts for tunes using Pandora (yeah I know Spotify peeps) in the bedroom.

IMO the Sono's app on my iPad or iPhone for remote usage is hard to beat & all things considered, glad I went this route.

[JM Campbell]

What JM said above Rich as I've been using a sim. setup here for a yr.+ in the living room > Sony XBR65X900C w/ a Sonos PlayBar & 2 Sonos Play 3's.

Used a Black Fri. coupon last Nov. to buy a pair of Sono's Ones w/ Sanus wall mounts for tunes using Pandora (yeah I know Spotify peeps) in the bedroom.

IMO the Sono's app on my iPad or iPhone for remote usage is hard to beat & all things considered, glad I went this route, no complaints here.

I started with a play bar, added the sub a month later then the new One x2 a month after that. I plan on moving the One x2 to other rooms and going play3 or even play5 for the rear surround.

I’ve been pretty impressed with the sound and it’s super easy to link up your amazon prime music account and various other music venues through the iPhone app.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ubervic]

Regarding Sonos, I have many retail partners who love selling it because it’s one of very few products these days that results in a come-back or repeat sale.

[RJ]

Two days in, still loving the Sonos.

We watched Avatar last night. Wow some amazing special effects really came through.

I noticed a small benefit: Adjusting the volume manually on either rear surround speaker moves the system volume up, without having to find the remote. Cool.

A negative: SWMBO told me the Sanus speaker stands need to go. They are huge; especially for the Play:1s. They do look kinda dorky plopped onto the stand. Plus they are not actually affixed to the mount via a screw. No bueno.

Liking the Sonos app, seems very intuitive.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/3329bb15aad9511f91b8e1bdaf870316.jpg

So far, so good.

[Chance]

So for those of you who have Sonos devices, are y'all happy with them? I sunk money into a Playbar the other day, and I can't get the damn app to connect to the system. Plug the Playbar into the router, the app recognizes the Playbar is plugged into the router, then times out when I try to connect to it.

I'm going back and forth with their customer service via Twitter right now (call center isn't open on the weekend - because no one tries to get anything working on the weekend...), but for $700, the thing should work out of the box. If it's worth the effort, I'll keep at it, but I'm ready to throw the thing back in the box, throw the box out the window, and then ship it back to Amazon. Nothing irritates me like expensive electronics that don't work like they should. :mad:

[RJ]

Chance

Yes, still very happy with my Sonos.

Obvious things to check, but:

Do you have the latest app software?

Does your router have any available updates?

Try connecting with a different cable?

Check for pushed pins on the Ethernet cat 5e jack?

Try connecting via WiFi?

Any firewall or connection permission settings or MAC address settings that are causing dropped packets?

[Chance]

It's the bloody router. Apologies to Sonos: I no longer want to throw your Playbar out the window.

Now I just have to track down Peter Norton and whoop his ass. And yes, I know he sold his name to Symantec in 1990, but it's the principle.

ETA: Both Symantec and Sonos customer support have been very responsive, so props to them both.

[Chance]

So I got the Playbar up and running with a spare router I had lying around. Went to get the Norton Core running again (didn't want to reconfigure every WiFi device in the house) and now the Core and Playbar are playing nice together. Given that the thing didn't work inexplicably and began working inexplicably, I fully expect it to stop working just as inexplicably. But it's working now, so I'm not going to complain too loud.

As for the Sonos itself: it's fantastic. The first thing I had to test it with was the Omaha Beach landing from 'Saving Private Ryan' (that's what we used to test theaters with back when I was a projectionist) and the fidelity is amazing. Very happy with the purchase and easily recommended.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

So I got the Playbar up and running with a spare router I had lying around. Went to get the Norton Core running again (didn't want to reconfigure every WiFi device in the house) and now the Core and Playbar are playing nice together. Given that the thing didn't work inexplicably and began working inexplicably, I fully expect it to stop working just as inexplicably. But it's working now, so I'm not going to complain too loud.

As for the Sonos itself: it's fantastic. The first thing I had to test it with was the Omaha Beach landing from 'Saving Private Ryan' (that's what we used to test theaters with back when I was a projectionist) and the fidelity is amazing. Very happy with the purchase and easily recommended.

Good that you got it sorted out Chance. I started w/ a Sonos Playbar & two Play 3's sev. in the living room sev. yrs ago, just added their new BEAM soundbar to the bedroom for use w/ two Sonos Ones & the bedroom has never sounded better.

[0ddl0t]

Is surround sound (5.1) kind of a gimmick? After growing frustrated with increasingly unintelligible movie dialogue (https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/heres-why-movie-dialogue-has-gotten-more-difficult-to-understand-and-three-ways-to-fix-it/) I bought a basic soundbar with surround sound and a subwoofer. I have temporarily set it up as a true 5.1 surround sound system to see if it is worth the effort of trying to unobtrusively mount rear speakers and run wiring to them:
119768

It would be much easier to do a 4.1-style setup:
119769


It has been years since I've watched a blu ray disc as I stream virtually everything these days. Netflix, Hulu, and Prime support surround sound, but from what I read they compress it in ways that may materially affect the end result. It seems Pandora, Spotify, and Youtube smart TV apps do not support surround (or do so only in extremely limited cases) which bummed me out. Apparently Dark Side of the Moon has really neat surround sound effects, but they do not come through the typical streaming outlets...

So that seems to leave me with movies. Jurassic Park sounded a lot better with external speakers, but I didn't really notice any surround sound effects. Same for the music-intensive movie Yesterday. Daniel Craig's Spectra heavily used surround sound but seemingly only during action sequences: early in the movie you could hear the tail rotor move around the room when Bond was inside a spinning helicopter, there was a gunshot where the rear speakers played a ricochet sound, and during a fight sequence on a train the rear speakers played traintrack sounds - all kind of cool. But it was only during intense action sequences. Bond was on that train for a while, but the rear speaker train sounds only kicked in during the fight...

So is surround sound kind of a gimmick? Or are there movies that really do put it to good use?

[Exiledviking]

Saving Private Ryan is a great movie for showing off a good 5.1 surround sound system. The scene that always gets me is the one where Tom Hanks blows up the German tank with his 1911. A moment later you can hear the P-51 Mustang roar in from behind in the rear speakers. There are other good scenes in that excellent movie that show off a good 5.1 surround sound system. Unless the rear speakers are behind you, you won't get the full experience. I saw Saving Private Ryan in the movie theater when it came out and we specifically back then choose a theater with better surround sound. And it sure paid off as I was completely surprised and startled by the P-51 coming in from behind the audience.
I find that using a separate center channel speaker of a 5.1 or better system helps me a lot with the dialogue.

[UNK]

I bought the top of the line Sony sound bar when we purchaded our Sony tv. Meh Is the best rating I could give it. Returned. Id rather have stereo speakers and a center/sub.
Yamaha is a solid choice. Search your model refurbished you can maybe get it for 1/2 or less with full factory warranty.

[vcdgrips]

In 2024

1. The speakers in all TVs suck because they presume you will have it hooked up to a sound bar at least

2. A sound bar may be meh but it is better than nothing. We have a very basic 2.1 TCL sound bar with a wireless subwoofer (though it must be plugged in for power, NOT for the bass sound) that punches way above it's weight for the 129 ish spent on it as it seamlessly mated with a TCL television.

3. Separate WIRED components still rule the roost IMHO

I still have 2 old school 5.1 Surround receivers. (Sony and Denon) Dialog has not been an issue so long as any of the audio settings (as displayed on the front panel) of the receiver were actively using the center front channel thru a dedicated center channel speaker.

4. All manner of streamed movies via both Netflix and Amazon prime sound plenty 5.1 ish with the std 5.1 set up (FRONT L/C/R, Rear L/R and a powered sub.) Indeed, watched Dune 2 last night via Max with just a 3.1 set up( no L/R rear) and it was quite good.

[Chance]

So is surround sound kind of a gimmick? Or are there movies that really do put it to good use?

In my experience, it varies heavily depending on what you're watching and where you're watching it from. Don't expect all action movies to put it to good use because many don't. Some of the best surround experiences come from movies that use it well for ambient noise, musical cues, and other things you don't necessarily notice but lends to the immersion.

[Casey]

So is surround sound kind of a gimmick? Or are there movies that really do put it to good use?
Your 4.1 setup there is actually a 3.1 (first number denotes number of standard speakers, second number is the number of subwoofers [and in the case of ATMOS setups there's a third number which is the down-firing ceiling speakers, e.g. 5.1.4]).

I think there's definitely value to rear surround speakers, if your room layout allows for proper placement and if the content you're playing supports it. I'm running a 3.1 Sonos setup (Arc soundbar, One SL rear surrounds, and Sub) and I can definitely hear audio coming in from the rear with some movies. The One SLs are on the smaller side, so I'd get more immersive sound if I was using larger speakers. My living room is large enough that I have decent space behind my couch to allow for several feet of separation between my optimum listening position and the rear surrounds. Overall, it's pretty decent for a mid-tier setup, especially having Sonos speakers throughout the house as I do. However, I'm continually annoyed by the fact that Sonos buttonholes you into using at best a 3.2 setup for surround sound and it's simply impossible to add left and right front surrounds, even though I have a pair of Fives in my entertainment center that I cannot use with the Arc, and have been relegated to music listening only.

Streaming is getting better and better, but currently you're at the mercy of lossy compression and some reduction in quality compared to physical media. Some streaming services are better than others at that. As to whether the layperson can tell a difference, eh. I certainly cannot. But, I still have a 4k Blu-ray player and I'm slowly building a collection of some of my favorite movies on 4K Blu-ray. Not all 4k discs are created equal, hence the existence of sites like High-Def Digest, but when the content is done right (for example, Top Gun: Maverick), man, does it look crisp on a quality TV (77" Sony A80K in my case).

All that being said, a really good soundbar with a sub is probably going to get you 75% of the way there and vastly simplify your setup. I'm no audiophile, but I tend to trust Matt Moreman of Obsessed Garage, as he's definitely a speaker nerd, and he's got some good content (https://youtu.be/3-ag6IJkjOM?si=SaLe1qo22x1YEhby) on the topic that's worth a look.

[0ddl0t]

Is surround sound (5.1) kind of a gimmick?


In my experience, it varies heavily depending on what you're watching and where you're watching it from. Don't expect all action movies to put it to good use because many don't. Some of the best surround experiences come from movies that use it well for ambient noise, musical cues, and other things you don't necessarily notice but lends to the immersion.

After binge watching a number of movies google says are good for surround sound, I agree. When it is done well, it really adds to the experience. When I originally watched A Quiet Place I found it kind of boring and slow, but watching it again in surround sound was a more intense experience. And even some of the gimmicky surround sound movies are still kind of fun (Baby Driver comes to mind).

Unfortunately, the vast majority of content doesn't use it (or use it well). Still, I probably will go through the minor hassle of pulling up baseboards and touching up paint to run wiring for rear speakers...


It seems Pandora, Spotify, and Youtube smart TV apps do not support surround (or do so only in extremely limited cases) which bummed me out. Apparently Dark Side of the Moon has really neat surround sound effects, but they do not come through the typical streaming outlets...
So with youtube it depends on the particular upload. After trying a number of versions of the same video, I was finally able to find some Pink Floyd uploads utilizing it. And many of Billie Eilish's uploads seem to have been mixed for atmos.

[Casey]

And even some of the gimmicky surround sound movies are still kind of fun (Baby Driver comes to mind).
Baby Driver absolutely rips on my system. Fantastic sound.