The One.

[ASH556]

The saying goes, "Beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it." Then, Chris Rhines said, "I'm not too worried about the guy with one gun; he probably just bought it and threw it in a sock drawer. It's the guy with two or three identical guns, all well-worn, that worries me."

That's the philosophy I've tried to adopt. Sometimes though, finding "The One" can be difficult due to several factors: money, technology, experience, etc. As always, the mission drives the gear train. I think for many, especially in the beginning, defining the mission can be difficult. We search for information on the gear from those who are "experts" on the subject and in reality what we find is usually either over-specialization from those who are deep into rabbit holes or oversimplification from those who either have limited experience and/or are burnt out on trying to explain things for the 100 millionth time. The purpose of this thread is to share some of my experience in assembling my "The One" rifle.

A wise man once said "begin with the end in mind." That works as long as you know what the end is. As someone who has chased a bunch of different rabbits over the years, I'll tell you that the biggest factor is the law of diminishing returns. Whether it's cost, weight, speed, precision, somewhere you get into diminishing returns and for what you're paying in money or weight, you're not gaining anything and/or you're losing things like speed, durability, etc.

The modularity of the AR15 is it's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness (if applied incorrectly). We've all either been that guy or at least stood next to that guy. You know, the one with the 15+ pound AR15 with 2 or 3 (or more) different sighting systems and more bolt-ons than a teenager's Honda Civic.

My perspective comes from that of what I'll call a "trained enthusiast." I've spent 15 years as an avid student of the AR15. I've attended multiple certified armorer trainings, I've worked in one of the largest shops/ranges in the Atlanta Metro turning wrenches on them, I've taken multiple carbine courses, I've shot 3gun with one, I've hunted and killed game with one, I've spent lots of time talking and training with advanced LEO and MIL users who are close friends.
In my opinion, a carbine is first and foremost a fighting weapon. I don't tolerate anything that compromises reliability. When I compete (and do reasonably well for a non-pro) I use 5.56 pressure factory-loaded ammo, no adjustable gas, no light springs, buffers or carriers. Guess how many malfunctions I've ever had at a match...zero. In addition to reliable, the carbine must also be fast, light, and accurate.

There are components that can be left up to user preference: Furniture, trigger, light, sling, barrel length, muzzle device. Other components are critical to the success of the weapon. Barrel (more manufacturer than length), Optic, Ammo.
Barrel:
Stainless match grade barrels can be nice, but are expensive and I always felt bad using them for anything but shooting with match grade ammo. Like I was "wasting" the barrel. Especially if I did a higher volume drill and got it hot. I've chosen to use the Colt SOCOM 14.5" barrel for several reasons: 1, it is chrome-lined CMV steel, so it should have a longer service life. 2, it is still pretty accurate for a "non-match grade" barrel. 3, the profile mitigates suppressor POI shift and is overall more heat tolerant. 4, it is gas ported correctly and works well with a variety of ammunition both suppressed and not. 5, the length is short enough to be handy and maneuverable, but long enough to provide adequate velocity for good terminal performance at various distances.

Optic:
This is probably the most hotly-debated piece of the whole puzzle. I've had everything from an Aimpoint Micro up to a Nightforce 2.5-10 with offset MRDS. Too little scope and you limit the effective range/precision of the rifle. Too much scope and it's too heavy and not fast enough up close or while moving or on moving targets or all three. There's no free lunch and everything's a tradeoff. Quality optics are expensive and quality can mean durability, clear glass, reticle design, on and on. Really what you have to decide is what you're going to do the majority of the time with the gun, and then try to add the other capability if you can/want to. For instance, if your mission is mostly clearing houses, a 1X red dot (Aimpoint, Eotech, etc) is the way to go, but lacks ID/precision capabilities. If your mission is shooting targets at 600yds, an Aimpoint is not a great choice. A 25X scope might be, but don't try to use it clearing houses. We probably all understand this basic concept, but where it starts to break down is nuances of the crossover. Adding a 3X or 6X flip-to-side magnifier behind an Aimpoint seems like a great idea. The tradeoffs are weight, balance, cost, and then things that you can't read on a spec sheet like parallax, critical head position, small FOV, etc. A 1-4/6/8 scope seems to many like the ultimate best of all worlds. All you have to do is look at the changes in the LPV market over the last 5 years and you'll see a HUGE amount of demand and investment in this sector of the optics market. But again, there are things that don't show up on paper: Fisheye/image distortion at 1X, weight, cost, reticle design, illumination, battery life, on, and on. Even if you invented the absolute perfect LPV optic, the fact remains that you still have to throw a power lever to get to the ideal state for what you're shooting. I've seen this simple operation throw me and other even more highly-skilled shooters at critical moments. Whether it was a 3gun stage or a deer hunt, there was a target that needed to be shot in a critical time and we had to slow down to adjust the scope to do it. In some cases, targets were missed because not enough or too much magnification (leading to too narrow a FOV) was used.

Due to these experiences, I have personally chosen the 3.5X Trijicon TA11 ACOG with the red horseshoe reticle. This specific model matters too. Everything from the reticle design, to the FOV and eye relief just hit an absolute sweet spot. I'm never on the wrong magnification. The scope is short and light. It has daylight bright illumination and also a reticle that is bold enough to use without any illumination at all. It's rugged and durable. It's enough magnification for good ID and precision at distance while also being fast and accurate up close. The glass is crystal clear and image resolution is fantastic. The stadia lines provide a means of both ranging and holdovers for hits at distance. Compared to an Aimpoint, I'm no slower on static drills inside 7 yds. If I'm moving or the target is moving, I lose small fractions of a second (like a tenth or two depending on the drill) to the Aimpoint. However, at 25yds and beyond, the speed offset disappears and the precision offset swings heavily in favor of the ACOG. So what about precision at distance. Well, compared to a 10X Leupold with TMR reticle, I can shoot the same or slightly better size 10-shot groups with the ACOG. Meanwhile, the Leupold slows me waaaay down inside 50 yds, especially as movement begins (as you might expect). The best tools are as simple as possible while being effective enough to get the job done. The TA11H fits this role perfectly.

Ammo:
For a long time I had this idea that a carbine needed 3 different kinds of ammo: 1, bulk FMJ ammo for high volume fire, 2, precision "match grade" ammo for precision/long range targets, 3, "duty" ammo for effective terminal performance. Recently, I decided that was stupid and that 2 and 3 should be the same. What does it matter if my rifle shoots 1/2MOA with 55gr Vmax if I would never use that load for anything in real life? So I decided to see what the accuracy of some "duty" loads would be. I had some 64gr Gold Dots on hand and honestly, that's where the test began and ended. A friend had some other duty loads that we tried also and they all shot significantly worse than the 64gr Gold Dots, so I decided not to test any further. I found that out of my guns, the 64gr Gold Dot load consistently shot 1MOA for 10 consecutive shot groups +/- .2 MOA.

Folks have used the terms, "all-around," "general purpose," and various others to describe what we all strive for: A rifle that will cover as many requirements as much of the time as possible, with as few downsides as possible. My uses for the carbine are hunting deer (suppressed and not), 3gun and other games involving a carbine, training involving the carbine, an ultimately to defend myself and my family. I am fully convinced through experience (firsthand with all factors except self defense) that this carbine (components, optic, ammo) is capable of fulfilling anything I might use a rifle for. Rather than being over-specialized with a .338 bolt gun, and then a "recce" with a 1-6, and then an 8" 300 blk with an Eotech, etc, etc. Because for me, I don't have the time, the location, or the resources to learn to effectively use a .338 bolt gun, and also all the other specialized options. In a way, I've simplified the equation. It goes like this:

Rifle problem = rifle. The One.

Just like

Pistol problem = pistol. The One. Which, for me, is a Gen 4 Glock 17, with certain sights. Carried in a certain place, in a certain holster. Always. The same. Wash, rinse, repeat. With tens of thousands of good reps put in to make every operation second nature.

So, if you've made it this far...bravo and thanks for the time.

Here's the full component list (for both go-to and training backup, identical except where noted) and then some pics:
Colt 6920 base gun
Barrel swapped for Colt 14.5" SOCOM
Geissele 13" freefloating modular handguard (MK8 MLOK on go-to, MK4 on trainer. Lights and slings attached in exactly the same place)
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
BCM Gunfighter pistol grip
Geissele SD-E trigger
Magpul CTR stock with enhanced pad
AAC 51-T muzzle device pinned/welded (brake on training gun for gaming sake, flashhider on go-to gun)
Surefire M600 Scout Light in Arisaka inline mount @ 1:00
Trijicon TA11H ACOG in Larue LT-100 mount

I literally have to look at the muzzle device to tell them apart. Both are zeroed and run flawlessly with 64gr Gold Dots. Here's what they group like (10 shots at 100, benched front and rear bags):

https://i.imgur.com/PItwNwF.png
https://i.imgur.com/8eR7BKh.jpg

And what they look like in "field mode:"
https://i.imgur.com/SpQjbDH.jpg

And proof of concept:
https://i.imgur.com/ZeEyERK.jpg

[WobblyPossum]

I really enjoyed reading that ASH556. I'm still working on putting together my ideal setup (mostly light/optic choices remain) and I'm always happy to see what other people have come up with and their reasons for their choices. If you're okay with me picking your brain, I've got a few things I'd like to know about your setup. How much do your rifles weigh? Any specific reason you went with the MK8 rail on one and the MK4 on the other or were they close enough in functionality that you just bought whichever was priced better at the time? I know you're running carbine buffer springs from your other thread. What weight buffers are you running? Which triggers did you try before settling on the SD-E? Why no BUIS? Who pinned and welded the muzzle devices for you?

[ASH556]

I really enjoyed reading that ASH556. I'm still working on putting together my ideal setup (mostly light/optic choices remain) and I'm always happy to see what other people have come up with and their reasons for their choices. If you're okay with me picking your brain, I've got a few things I'd like to know about your setup. How much do your rifles weigh? Any specific reason you went with the MK8 rail on one and the MK4 on the other or were they close enough in functionality that you just bought whichever was priced better at the time? I know you're running carbine buffer springs from your other thread. What weight buffers are you running? Which triggers did you try before settling on the SD-E? Why no BUIS? Who pinned and welded the muzzle devices for you?
Dan, no problem at all. Sparking discussion is the purpose of the post!

They weigh 8lb 2oz unloaded without the suppressor. I started with the MK8 due to a desire to try MLOK. Honestly I prefer the MK4, because of the integrated forward sling mounts, but would like to buy newer ones with MLOK. This isn't enough difference for me to sell them and swap though. The Gen 1 MK4 is one I found used for a good deal on ARFCOM when I was building the backup rifle. I've been running H buffers with no issues, but currently have tungsten weights inbound to make H2's. I feel this will smooth things out just a little when running suppressed. Not that big a deal, but something I wanted to try. As for trigger, I've owned and used factory Colt, RRA 2-stage (back in 2003), LMT 2-stage, KAC 2-stage, Geissele SSA, Geissele G2S, Geissele SSA-E, Timney, and these SD-E's. No BUIS because I'm not convinced they're useful on these. An ACOG is among the most durable optics made (if not the most durable). I guess when I think about it I don't realistically see a situation where the optic fails but then dismounting it and flipping up BUIS is the solution. I think an optic failure would probably be more catastrophic to the rifle. Maybe I'm wrong. Still not convinced I want to spend the money on them. I've also toyed with the notion of offset irons. Again, design is the issue. Anything that's fixed sticks too far off the rifle (snag points). Anything that folds defeats the purpose of rapid transition. I liked the idea of the XS offsets, but in trying them found them impossible to align with cheek weld on the rifle. The front was too tall/the rear was too short. As for muzzle devices, I pinned/welded them myself with the help of a machinist friend who has access to a drill press and welder.

Hope this helps!

ETA: I just checked Brownells and they had the MK4 MLOK on sale, so I just bought 2 to swap out, lol.

[Casual Friday]

You ever take an ugly girl to the prom, and years later look back at the photos and do the upper lip curl and full body shiver? I have the same reaction looking at pictures of the first welfare rifle I slapped together from internet parts. I had 6920 money tied up in a basic bitch rifle and shit parts.

I still have it and use it as my training rifle but I took all the embarrassing stuff off.

Rifle
Sling
Folding BUIS
Light
Red Dot

That's all I need.

[Rex G]

Interesting read; thanks for posting. I am still working my way through a second reading.

Upon my retirement from LEO-ing, which should happen late this month, I will be free of PD weapons policy, which applies 24/7. I let my patrol rifle qual lapse a number of years ago, after selling my pencil-barrel Colt A2 Government Carbine to a colleague with younger eyes; the mandated iron sights had become too “fuzzy.” A practical AR15 with a very sturdy optic, and no iron sights, makes perfect sense for my future needs.

[LittleLebowski]

Fantastic post.

[RJ]

Very interesting. I’m nowhere near this level of expertise in guns but it definitely resonates with me. Owning “one” gun and using it for SD, training etc. makes sense. I totally get what Doc said a while back and am strongly considering a second G19.5 just for training.

And if I ever progress to the point of buying a rifle, enough of you guys have commented that the numbers “6920” are carved into my forehead. :cool:

[Robinson]

I totally get what Doc said a while back and am strongly considering a second G19.5 just for training.

Do it if you can Rich. It really brings with it a piece of mind along with the more tangible benefits.

[Casual Friday]

Very interesting. I’m nowhere near this level of expertise in guns but it definitely resonates with me. Owning “one” gun and using it for SD, training etc. makes sense. I totally get what Doc said a while back and am strongly considering a second G19.5 just for training.

And if I ever progress to the point of buying a rifle, enough of you guys have commented that the numbers “6920” are carved into my forehead. :cool:

A dedicated training gun is something I should have invested in years before I did. Shoot it, dry fire it, clean it, don't clean it , lube it. Replace things when they wear out or break.

There are lots of great rifles and accessories on the market these days, and 5 billion shitty ones. The 6920 is probably the rifle answer for 95% of the people out there.

[BillSWPA]

My only concern about an ACOG would be replacing the tritium when it starts to go dim, and it eventually will. Tritium has a half life of about 12 years, but I find myself replacing the tritium iron sights on my pistols every 6 years so that I can see them in most light conditions. How does the ACOG compare to this? If you have had to replace the tritium, after how many years was it desirable, and how much did it cost?



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[ASH556]

My only concern about an ACOG would be replacing the tritium when it starts to go dim, and it eventually will. Tritium has a half life of about 12 years, but I find myself replacing the tritium iron sights on my pistols every 6 years so that I can see them in most light conditions. How does the ACOG compare to this? If you have had to replace the tritium, after how many years was it desirable, and how much did it cost?


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I haven't had to replace tritium in an ACOG, but I recently researched it and it seems to cost about $500. I don't deem it necessary though. I don't really consider the Tritium in an ACOG to be a factor. In daylight, the FO provides illumination. Even without illumination, though, the Horseshoe reticle is bold enough to be useable. If you use white light in low light, the reticle turns washes to black anyway. If for some reason I was firing at night, not using white light, but needing an illuminated reticle and the tritium was dead 12 years from now, I could always use a small keychain light, chemlight, or other to illuminate the FO. That's really stretching things though.

[GAP]

Loved it; I approach this in a similar way, except I use a couple of Gen 4 Glock 19s and two Arsenal AKs.

I’ve contiplated moving on to a 6920, but I honestly love shooting AKs with an ultimak rail and a micro dot. They also utilize a light, flash supressor, and lack any obnoxious attachments under the hand guard.

Ordering 5 cases of ammo excites me much more than a random new rifle. :D

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Really nice rifle and very well thought out. The Colt SOCOM barrels are really good shooters and the 14.5” length is a sweet spot.


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[David S.]

Very interesting. I’m nowhere near this level of expertise in guns but it definitely resonates with me. Owning “one” gun and using it for SD, training etc. makes sense. I totally get what Doc said a while back and am strongly considering a second G19.5 just for training.

With relatively low volume of shooting that I do (3-4 thousand rounds a year, including classes), I've personally never felt the need for a practice gun. Running those rounds through my carry gun increases confidence in that gun. A second gun does make sense in case my primary gun gets confiscated impounded for evidence, for high volume shooters or for dry practice. Currently, my alternate gun is a larger framed gun that's similar.

For my circumstances, a SIRT has been a better investment for than a dedicated practice gun.

[RJ]

With relatively low volume of shooting that I do (3-4 thousand rounds a year, including classes), I've personally never felt the need for a practice gun. Running those rounds through my carry gun increases confidence in that gun. A second gun does make sense in case my primary gun gets confiscated impounded for evidence, for high volume shooters or for dry practice. Currently, my alternate gun is a larger framed gun that's similar.

For my circumstances, a SIRT has been a better investment for than a dedicated practice gun.

Probably true.

It’s really convenient though. I suppose not having to eject and set aside a SD round at $0.50 per Dry Practice session is a minor factor as well. For sure a SIRT would help.

I’ll need to look into that, or maybe a Blue Gun as well. Thanks D.

PS hope all is well at home and you all are getting some rest occasionally lol. All being well we should be in the vicinity of Hard 8 mid April.

[rob_s]

I’ve always been a fan of a practice gun vs carry or defense gun, but largely out of laziness as much as anything else. When I was shooting competitions a lot more, I would arrive at the range with my carry gun in my pants and my shooting gun in my bag. Unclip holster, put carry gun in consolevault, go shoot the match, return carry gun to pants. Same thing for any other practice session, to include dryfore etc. for a while the carry gun was a completely different platform than the competition gun so that made a difference.

To the point of this thread, I had a “tale of two carbines” article a decade or so ago with a similar concept to the OP. The guns were similar enough not to matter (stock, trigger, grip, handguard, optic type) but different enough for each purpose (he gun is suppressed, lower power version of same optic as shooting gun, etc). All of that said, I don’t view rifles/carbines the same way I used to so I out less emphasis on all of that for those types of guns.

I will also say that my opinion of all of this minutiae is vastly different now too. You used to have to do some fiddle-fuck because nobody made carbines that came out of the box as anyone would want to shoot them. That’s not true anymore, and the rate of return on fiddlexfuck is near zero now IMO. Buy a Colt CCU or a Knights SR15 and put a 30mm Aimpoint of whatever the LPV of the day is (speaking of insignificant minutiae) and go shoot. You’ll never know the difference.

[Unobtanium]

I have a Hodge Mod 2. I run the shit out of it. I doubt I ever manage to wear it out, considering they are well over 10K rounds of M855A1 on that platform with no signs of accuracy loss or anything else.


This is also a fancy way of saying I don't have the money for a clone.

[rob_s]

That’s brings up another point...

I’d own two CCUs before I bought just one of any boutique brand.

[MSparks909]

That’s brings up another point...

I’d own two CCUs before I bought just one of any boutique brand.

Meh. I’m quite partial to my SR-15 Mod 2...I want another.

[11B10]

Very interesting. I’m nowhere near this level of expertise in guns but it definitely resonates with me. Owning “one” gun and using it for SD, training etc. makes sense. I totally get what Doc said a while back and am strongly considering a second G19.5 just for training.

And if I ever progress to the point of buying a rifle, enough of you guys have commented that the numbers “6920” are carved into my forehead. :cool:



Ummm, Rich, what did I miss? "A second G19.5?" Do you no longer have the H&KP30SK? I gots to know!

[11B10]

The saying goes, "Beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it." Then, Chris Rhines said, "I'm not too worried about the guy with one gun; he probably just bought it and threw it in a sock drawer. It's the guy with two or three identical guns, all well-worn, that worries me."

That's the philosophy I've tried to adopt. Sometimes though, finding "The One" can be difficult due to several factors: money, technology, experience, etc. As always, the mission drives the gear train. I think for many, especially in the beginning, defining the mission can be difficult. We search for information on the gear from those who are "experts" on the subject and in reality what we find is usually either over-specialization from those who are deep into rabbit holes or oversimplification from those who either have limited experience and/or are burnt out on trying to explain things for the 100 millionth time. The purpose of this thread is to share some of my experience in assembling my "The One" rifle.

A wise man once said "begin with the end in mind." That works as long as you know what the end is. As someone who has chased a bunch of different rabbits over the years, I'll tell you that the biggest factor is the law of diminishing returns. Whether it's cost, weight, speed, precision, somewhere you get into diminishing returns and for what you're paying in money or weight, you're not gaining anything and/or you're losing things like speed, durability, etc.

The modularity of the AR15 is it's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness (if applied incorrectly). We've all either been that guy or at least stood next to that guy. You know, the one with the 15+ pound AR15 with 2 or 3 (or more) different sighting systems and more bolt-ons than a teenager's Honda Civic.

My perspective comes from that of what I'll call a "trained enthusiast." I've spent 15 years as an avid student of the AR15. I've attended multiple certified armorer trainings, I've worked in one of the largest shops/ranges in the Atlanta Metro turning wrenches on them, I've taken multiple carbine courses, I've shot 3gun with one, I've hunted and killed game with one, I've spent lots of time talking and training with advanced LEO and MIL users who are close friends.
In my opinion, a carbine is first and foremost a fighting weapon. I don't tolerate anything that compromises reliability. When I compete (and do reasonably well for a non-pro) I use 5.56 pressure factory-loaded ammo, no adjustable gas, no light springs, buffers or carriers. Guess how many malfunctions I've ever had at a match...zero. In addition to reliable, the carbine must also be fast, light, and accurate.

There are components that can be left up to user preference: Furniture, trigger, light, sling, barrel length, muzzle device. Other components are critical to the success of the weapon. Barrel (more manufacturer than length), Optic, Ammo.
Barrel:
Stainless match grade barrels can be nice, but are expensive and I always felt bad using them for anything but shooting with match grade ammo. Like I was "wasting" the barrel. Especially if I did a higher volume drill and got it hot. I've chosen to use the Colt SOCOM 14.5" barrel for several reasons: 1, it is chrome-lined CMV steel, so it should have a longer service life. 2, it is still pretty accurate for a "non-match grade" barrel. 3, the profile mitigates suppressor POI shift and is overall more heat tolerant. 4, it is gas ported correctly and works well with a variety of ammunition both suppressed and not. 5, the length is short enough to be handy and maneuverable, but long enough to provide adequate velocity for good terminal performance at various distances.

Optic:
This is probably the most hotly-debated piece of the whole puzzle. I've had everything from an Aimpoint Micro up to a Nightforce 2.5-10 with offset MRDS. Too little scope and you limit the effective range/precision of the rifle. Too much scope and it's too heavy and not fast enough up close or while moving or on moving targets or all three. There's no free lunch and everything's a tradeoff. Quality optics are expensive and quality can mean durability, clear glass, reticle design, on and on. Really what you have to decide is what you're going to do the majority of the time with the gun, and then try to add the other capability if you can/want to. For instance, if your mission is mostly clearing houses, a 1X red dot (Aimpoint, Eotech, etc) is the way to go, but lacks ID/precision capabilities. If your mission is shooting targets at 600yds, an Aimpoint is not a great choice. A 25X scope might be, but don't try to use it clearing houses. We probably all understand this basic concept, but where it starts to break down is nuances of the crossover. Adding a 3X or 6X flip-to-side magnifier behind an Aimpoint seems like a great idea. The tradeoffs are weight, balance, cost, and then things that you can't read on a spec sheet like parallax, critical head position, small FOV, etc. A 1-4/6/8 scope seems to many like the ultimate best of all worlds. All you have to do is look at the changes in the LPV market over the last 5 years and you'll see a HUGE amount of demand and investment in this sector of the optics market. But again, there are things that don't show up on paper: Fisheye/image distortion at 1X, weight, cost, reticle design, illumination, battery life, on, and on. Even if you invented the absolute perfect LPV optic, the fact remains that you still have to throw a power lever to get to the ideal state for what you're shooting. I've seen this simple operation throw me and other even more highly-skilled shooters at critical moments. Whether it was a 3gun stage or a deer hunt, there was a target that needed to be shot in a critical time and we had to slow down to adjust the scope to do it. In some cases, targets were missed because not enough or too much magnification (leading to too narrow a FOV) was used.

Due to these experiences, I have personally chosen the 3.5X Trijicon TA11 ACOG with the red horseshoe reticle. This specific model matters too. Everything from the reticle design, to the FOV and eye relief just hit an absolute sweet spot. I'm never on the wrong magnification. The scope is short and light. It has daylight bright illumination and also a reticle that is bold enough to use without any illumination at all. It's rugged and durable. It's enough magnification for good ID and precision at distance while also being fast and accurate up close. The glass is crystal clear and image resolution is fantastic. The stadia lines provide a means of both ranging and holdovers for hits at distance. Compared to an Aimpoint, I'm no slower on static drills inside 7 yds. If I'm moving or the target is moving, I lose small fractions of a second (like a tenth or two depending on the drill) to the Aimpoint. However, at 25yds and beyond, the speed offset disappears and the precision offset swings heavily in favor of the ACOG. So what about precision at distance. Well, compared to a 10X Leupold with TMR reticle, I can shoot the same or slightly better size 10-shot groups with the ACOG. Meanwhile, the Leupold slows me waaaay down inside 50 yds, especially as movement begins (as you might expect). The best tools are as simple as possible while being effective enough to get the job done. The TA11H fits this role perfectly.

Ammo:
For a long time I had this idea that a carbine needed 3 different kinds of ammo: 1, bulk FMJ ammo for high volume fire, 2, precision "match grade" ammo for precision/long range targets, 3, "duty" ammo for effective terminal performance. Recently, I decided that was stupid and that 2 and 3 should be the same. What does it matter if my rifle shoots 1/2MOA with 55gr Vmax if I would never use that load for anything in real life? So I decided to see what the accuracy of some "duty" loads would be. I had some 64gr Gold Dots on hand and honestly, that's where the test began and ended. A friend had some other duty loads that we tried also and they all shot significantly worse than the 64gr Gold Dots, so I decided not to test any further. I found that out of my guns, the 64gr Gold Dot load consistently shot 1MOA for 10 consecutive shot groups +/- .2 MOA.

Folks have used the terms, "all-around," "general purpose," and various others to describe what we all strive for: A rifle that will cover as many requirements as much of the time as possible, with as few downsides as possible. My uses for the carbine are hunting deer (suppressed and not), 3gun and other games involving a carbine, training involving the carbine, an ultimately to defend myself and my family. I am fully convinced through experience (firsthand with all factors except self defense) that this carbine (components, optic, ammo) is capable of fulfilling anything I might use a rifle for. Rather than being over-specialized with a .338 bolt gun, and then a "recce" with a 1-6, and then an 8" 300 blk with an Eotech, etc, etc. Because for me, I don't have the time, the location, or the resources to learn to effectively use a .338 bolt gun, and also all the other specialized options. In a way, I've simplified the equation. It goes like this:

Rifle problem = rifle. The One.

Just like

Pistol problem = pistol. The One. Which, for me, is a Gen 4 Glock 17, with certain sights. Carried in a certain place, in a certain holster. Always. The same. Wash, rinse, repeat. With tens of thousands of good reps put in to make every operation second nature.

So, if you've made it this far...bravo and thanks for the time.

Here's the full component list (for both go-to and training backup, identical except where noted) and then some pics:
Colt 6920 base gun
Barrel swapped for Colt 14.5" SOCOM
Geissele 13" freefloating modular handguard (MK8 MLOK on go-to, MK4 on trainer. Lights and slings attached in exactly the same place)
BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle
BCM Gunfighter pistol grip
Geissele SD-E trigger
Magpul CTR stock with enhanced pad
AAC 51-T muzzle device pinned/welded (brake on training gun for gaming sake, flashhider on go-to gun)
Surefire M600 Scout Light in Arisaka inline mount @ 1:00
Trijicon TA11H ACOG in Larue LT-100 mount

I literally have to look at the muzzle device to tell them apart. Both are zeroed and run flawlessly with 64gr Gold Dots. Here's what they group like (10 shots at 100, benched front and rear bags):

https://i.imgur.com/PItwNwF.png
https://i.imgur.com/8eR7BKh.jpg

And what they look like in "field mode:"
https://i.imgur.com/SpQjbDH.jpg

And proof of concept:
https://i.imgur.com/ZeEyERK.jpg



ASH, your post is one that I will revisit many times. I'm trying to find a way to convince a certain woman that there is no better time, indeed, now is the BEST time, to add an AR to the team. Your information is precisely why I come here every day. Thanks so much! There simply is no better place to learn - than pf.

[RJ]

Ummm, Rich, what did I miss? "A second G19.5?" Do you no longer have the H&KP30SK? I gots to know!

The P30SK is in the safe. If I’d had my druthers, I’d trade it for a second G19.5 in a heartbeat.

However SWMBO has declared it ‘her’ gun, and so...

But yeah, pretty happy with the Glock. It does everything it says on the side of the can.

[ASH556]

ASH, your post is one that I will revisit many times. I'm trying to find a way to convince a certain woman that there is no better time, indeed, now is the BEST time, to add an AR to the team. Your information is precisely why I come here every day. Thanks so much! There simply is no better place to learn - than pf.

I agree 100% about P-F and am glad to have been a help to you. Tell her P-F agrees that now is indeed the VERY BEST time to buy an AR!

[EJO]

Very good thread Ash and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Quick question, how did you do your front sight base? Shave down the factory FSB or is it aftermarket?

Thanks!

[11B10]

The P30SK is in the safe. If I’d had my druthers, I’d trade it for a second G19.5 in a heartbeat.

However SWMBO has declared it ‘her’ gun, and so...

But yeah, pretty happy with the Glock. It does everything it says on the side of the can.

Well, ya might wanna edit your quote at the bottom of your profile. As time goes by, my P30SK has begun to feel too small in my hands and you might guess what brand I've been revisiting. Nothing new as I am a former "PERFECTION" owner.

[ASH556]

Very good thread Ash and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Quick question, how did you do your front sight base? Shave down the factory FSB or is it aftermarket?

Thanks!

Shaved FSB’s. I own both dimpling and pinning jigs for low profile gas blocks, and use them on customers’ guns when required, but I strongly prefer a shaved factory FSB.

[RJ]

Well, ya might wanna edit your quote at the bottom of your profile. As time goes by, my P30SK has begun to feel too small in my hands and you might guess what brand I've been revisiting. Nothing new as I am a former "PERFECTION" owner.

Jump in. The water’s fine. :cool:

But seriously: try a Gen 5. The trigger is most un-Glock like, really. Most every Glock I’ve ever shot felt like a Lowe’s Staple Gun. Stretchhhhhhhhhh...TWANG!! But this one feels really really good to me for whatever reason.

With no beaver tail or grip spacer attached, the Small Frame by itself feels perfect for my size M hands. It’s like finally somebody made a gun JUST for me.

Whew. Sorry got a little carried away there. I’m sure the meds will kick in shortly. :)

PS Good point about the Sig line lol

ETA Sig fixed.

[Chuck Whitlock]

First of all, thanks for this thread!


This is also a fancy way of saying I don't have the money for a clone.

This quote seems to define my life!! Thus, the experiences of others posted here lets me mold my own thought processes.




Optic:
Due to these experiences, I have personally chosen the 3.5X Trijicon TA11 ACOG with the red horseshoe reticle. This specific model matters too. Everything from the reticle design, to the FOV and eye relief just hit an absolute sweet spot. I'm never on the wrong magnification. The scope is short and light. It has daylight bright illumination and also a reticle that is bold enough to use without any illumination at all. It's rugged and durable. It's enough magnification for good ID and precision at distance while also being fast and accurate up close. The glass is crystal clear and image resolution is fantastic. The stadia lines provide a means of both ranging and holdovers for hits at distance. Compared to an Aimpoint, I'm no slower on static drills inside 7 yds. If I'm moving or the target is moving, I lose small fractions of a second (like a tenth or two depending on the drill) to the Aimpoint. However, at 25yds and beyond, the speed offset disappears and the precision offset swings heavily in favor of the ACOG. So what about precision at distance. Well, compared to a 10X Leupold with TMR reticle, I can shoot the same or slightly better size 10-shot groups with the ACOG. Meanwhile, the Leupold slows me waaaay down inside 50 yds, especially as movement begins (as you might expect). The best tools are as simple as possible while being effective enough to get the job done. The TA11H fits this role perfectly.

This part was very timely. For a long time I have waffled between LPV or red dot on my rifle. As per the first quote, even one ACOG is simply not an option.....I need the best bang-for-the-buck, and have precious few of those bucks available. I've been looking at the 1-4X MTAC for my AR, partly with the idea of a 1.5-6X for a .308 bolt gun. but your experience/conclusions make me revisit the idea of the fixed 3X AR-332......smaller/simpler/more robust, and I can effectively use BAC. I also just noticed that they are all available with the Ballistic AR reticle as well as the Ballistic CQ.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/mtac-riflescopes-series/mtac-riflescope-1-4x24mm
https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/mtac-riflescopes-series/mtac-riflescope-1.5-6x42mm
https://www.burrisoptics.com/sights/ar-sights-series/ar-332



I liked the idea of the XS offsets, but in trying them found them impossible to align with cheek weld on the rifle. The front was too tall/the rear was too short.

Thanks for this as well. I think an A2 rear tower is far to busy for an offset sight, and was leaning toward the XS for offsets.

[11B10]

Jump in. The water’s fine. :cool:

But seriously: try a Gen 5. The trigger is most un-Glock like, really. Most every Glock I’ve ever shot felt like a Lowe’s Staple Gun. Stretchhhhhhhhhh...TWANG!! But this one feels really really good to me for whatever reason.

With no beaver tail or grip spacer attached, the Small Frame by itself feels perfect for my size M hands. It’s like finally somebody made a gun JUST for me.

Whew. Sorry got a little carried away there. I’m sure the meds will kick in shortly. :)

PS Good point about the Sig line lol

ETA Sig fixed.


Absolutely the last time I'm drifting this thread. Rich, I have tried the GEN 5 and was oh so pleasantly surprised. However, I'm looking to return to the G30S, which is what I carried for 3+ years - right before I switched to my P320/.45 compact. I then went from that to the P30SK, which is what I'm carrying now. Two things have me returning to the G 30S: the caliber (don't start on me, logic need not apply here) - and, what I felt when I got some range time with my buddy's 30S, a brand new gun. Just to further muddy the waters, I'm all set to fulfill a gun wish from way back: a M&P 340. Again, no logic please.

[EVP]

Ash556

Is the Ta11 the acog with the good eye relief?

I remember there was a specific model that people really liked but I am not experience with acogs

[LJP]

A very interesting read. Thanks for posting, and I will probably revisit this thread often. I have two very similar carbines set up as primary and backup, one with an Aimpoint and one with an ACOG LED model, but will be building my first SBR shortly. This thread and the OP is good fodder for my brain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ASH556]

Yes. Technically the TA33 has more eye relief on paper, but I found it to me much like looking through a straw when I had one. Very small FOV and critical head position. The TA11 is much better.


Ash556

Is the Ta11 the acog with the good eye relief?

I remember there was a specific model that people really liked but I am not experience with acogs