New 11# Beretta Hammer Springs Coming!

[LangdonTactical]

I have taken the plunge and ordered some custom chrome silicon 11-pound hammer springs for the Beretta. These springs will fit both the 92 and the PX4.

Since I now have well over 100k through PX4s with the 12-pound spring and the fact that I have cut a few coils off of some 12-pound springs for testing, I am confident that the PX4 will run well with this lighter hammer spring. Exactly how well remains to be seen.

This 11-pound spring should simply be magic in a PX4, and on the very harry edge in a 92 for you guys running a 92 competition gun. My guess is about a 6 to 6.5 pound DA on the PX4 and likely a 5 to 5.5 pound DA on the 92 (maybe even little lighter with polishing and trigger work).

I am going to have to charge a little bit more for these springs because of the cost to get them made and the heavy investment up front, but the price should drop if they are popular enough.

Hopefully, a bunch of you will order these spring for two reasons;
One, I am spending a bunch of money to have them made.
Two, I need the feedback on a bunch of guns on how well they work.

We should have a link up on the website today to pre-order them. They should be ready to ship in early February.

Let me know what you think.

[Bigghoss]

I plan to order a couple to try out.

[CoGT3]

Also good for a couple between the 2 mod 4’s, 1 regular CC, and the FS I ordered a TIG for.

Just keeps getting better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MSparks909]

I have taken the plunge and ordered some custom chrome silicon 11-pound hammer springs for the Beretta. These springs will fit both the 92 and the PX4.

Since I now have well over 100k through PX4s with the 12-pound spring and the fact that I have cut a few coils off of some 12-pound springs for testing, I am confident that the PX4 will run well with this lighter hammer spring. Exactly how well remains to be seen.

This 11-pound spring should simply be magic in a PX4, and on the very harry edge in a 92 for you guys running a 92 competition gun. My guess is about a 6 to 6.5 pound DA on the PX4 and likely a 5 to 5.5 pound DA on the 92 (maybe even little lighter with polishing and trigger work).

I am going to have to charge a little bit more for these springs because of the cost to get them made and the heavy investment up front, but the price should drop if they are popular enough.

Hopefully, a bunch of you will order these spring for two reasons;
One, I am spending a bunch of money to have them made.
Two, I need the feedback on a bunch of guns on how well they work.

We should have a link up on the website today to pre-order them. They should be ready to ship in early February.

Let me know what you think.

On the 92 what hammer would be best paired with these new springs? I’ve had a few light strikes with my Elite 2 hammer/13# hammer spring in my Elite 2. I know on the CZ side of things that they usually pair longer firing pins with Uber light hammer springs to aid in reliability.

[Dagga Boy]

I would be in for five for my PX4CC’s.

[SeriousStudent]

In for three, thank you very much.

[LangdonTactical]

On the 92 what hammer would be best paired with these new springs? I’ve had a few light strikes with my Elite 2 hammer/13# hammer spring in my Elite 2. I know on the CZ side of things that they usually pair longer firing pins with Uber light hammer springs to aid in reliability.

Well, there are quite a few factors that come into play. One that I have seen a lot is dirt or bad oil in the firing pin channel. Certain "natural" oils that can break down over time cause issues in the firing pin channel and will cause light strikes, on any guns. Also, using solvents, such as Hoppe's bore cleaner, to clean your gun can cause all kinds of issues.

Trigger bars that do not fully cock the hammer in Double Action also tend to cause the same issue.

Hammer weight plays a big role as does the location of where the weight is on the hammer.

I am doing some testing right now to try and figure out what the best combos are for the 92 and the PX4. I have already figured out that some of my previous assumptions where wrong. For example, the PX4 hammer is lighter than the Elite II hammer. It's even lighter than the original Elite hammer, which is not reliable at all with light springs. Yet the PX4 hammer seems to be very reliable. But the weight of that hammer is positioned differently than any of the other Beretta factory hammers.

More to follow as I need the use of some equipment that I don't have to properly test things.

[MSparks909]

Thanks for the explanation and I’d like a few to test for myself! In for 3 to start...maybe more if they run well in my 92s!

[GJM]

I would be in for five for my PX4CC’s.

Show off

[cyberiad]

I only use my 92s for competition (92A1 and an Elite I) and I will try a couple. I found I prefer the trigger pull with a 1911 mainspring over any of the Wilson springs or the 'D' spring. I don't have a way to measure the trigger pull and the Wilson #12 spring may have resulted in a lighter DA trigger pull but the 1911 spring felt better (whatever that means). I do have a Wilson #12 spring in my Px4CC.

[LangdonTactical]

OK, the link to the 11# hammer spring is up on the website.

https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p30/11%23_Chrome_Silicon_Hammer_Spring.html

[Bigghoss]

Did some OT so I'll be placing an order for a few plus some other things on your site while I'm at it when I get paid.

[beenalongtime]

Hammer weight plays a big role as does the location of where the weight is on the hammer.

I am doing some testing right now to try and figure out what the best combos are for the 92 and the PX4. I have already figured out that some of my previous assumptions where wrong. For example, the PX4 hammer is lighter than the Elite II hammer. It's even lighter than the original Elite hammer, which is not reliable at all with light springs. Yet the PX4 hammer seems to be very reliable. But the weight of that hammer is positioned differently than any of the other Beretta factory hammers.

More to follow as I need the use of some equipment that I don't have to properly test things.

Which PX4 hammer(s) have you tested? The skeleton style, the solid style, the C hammer, the D hammer, or the LTT hammer?

[medmo]

Will order one tomorrow and check it out. I’m almost in disbelief here. The trigger on my PX4 CC can be improved? Didn’t think that was possible. It’s already head & shoulders better than any TDA system my fingers have ever stroked. That includes my 229 which went thru the Sig custom shop treatment.

[YVK]

Tried to pre-order several times. After filling in the cc info, getting this message

Accept.js encryption failed.

Anyone had same problem?

[Kyle Reese]

Ordered two this morning.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[YVK]

Beats me. Tried again today, two different cards, same error message.

[LangdonTactical]

Beats me. Tried again today, two different cards, same error message.

The orders are coming in, so I don't know what the issue might be?

[LangdonTactical]

Which PX4 hammer(s) have you tested? The skeleton style, the solid style, the C hammer, the D hammer, or the LTT hammer?

Just working with DA/SA hammers for now. The Standard PX4 hammer and the LTT Spurless hammer.

[Jeep]

I have taken the plunge and ordered some custom chrome silicon 11-pound hammer springs for the Beretta. These springs will fit both the 92 and the PX4.

Since I now have well over 100k through PX4s with the 12-pound spring and the fact that I have cut a few coils off of some 12-pound springs for testing, I am confident that the PX4 will run well with this lighter hammer spring. Exactly how well remains to be seen.

This 11-pound spring should simply be magic in a PX4, and on the very harry edge in a 92 for you guys running a 92 competition gun. My guess is about a 6 to 6.5 pound DA on the PX4 and likely a 5 to 5.5 pound DA on the 92 (maybe even little lighter with polishing and trigger work).

I am going to have to charge a little bit more for these springs because of the cost to get them made and the heavy investment up front, but the price should drop if they are popular enough.

Hopefully, a bunch of you will order these spring for two reasons;
One, I am spending a bunch of money to have them made.
Two, I need the feedback on a bunch of guns on how well they work.

We should have a link up on the website today to pre-order them. They should be ready to ship in early February.

Let me know what you think.

You know, you might be the best salesman Beretta has going. First, you (and Bill Wilson) have started turning the 92 series from a nicely designed firearm with much too heavy of a trigger pull, into perhaps the best fullsize DA/SA pistol around.

Now you are turning the PX4--the PX4 of all things!--into a preferred carry gun.

I'm hoping you are getting a commission from Beretta because you now have me wondering whether I need a small PX4 (a PX4 of all things!).

Even five years ago I never would have thought such a thing possible.

[medmo]

Just ordered two. Looking forward to checking it out. Thanks

[Beretta Dawg]

This 11-pound spring should simply be magic in a PX4, and on the very harry edge in a 92 for you guys running a 92 competition gun. My guess is about a 6 to 6.5 pound DA on the PX4 and likely a 5 to 5.5 pound DA on the 92 (maybe even little lighter with polishing and trigger work).


Ernest, just out of curiosity, what's the lowest power spring you would recommend for defensive use? Is it just a matter of reliability in your mind, or does the pull weight factor in as well? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think I have heard you say the length of pull is more important than weight, but I was just curious if there is a point that weight becomes a factor for you.

[JonInWA]

With my Wilson triggerbar, I conservatively started out with the 14#, recently moved down to the 13# which is where I plan on staying; while I suspect that the gun (in my case, a 92D) could reliably run with a 12#, since mine is used for carry and duty (as well as for IDPA), 13# is the lower limit for my personal comfort level-and that was only after testing with my carry cartridges as well as competitions ones. The Wilson Combat Ultimate Action Tune Kit for the Beretta 90-series includes 14#, 13# and 12# springs.

The critical part of the equation in going lower than 14# is the Wilson Combat triggerbar, who's modified geometry allows increased hammer distance, providing greater impact energy on the firing pin, facilitating a lighter main/hammer spring. With a standard OEM Beretta triggerbar, 14# is the lowest I'd personally go-and that also would be only after testing. Prior to going with the Wilson triggerbar, I ran my 92D with it's OEM 16# D spring. The Wilson triggerbar and chrome silicon hammer/mainsprings make for a significantly improved triggerpull; I also recommend using their chrome silicon trigger return spring to achieve adequate trigger returns.

For carry/duty I use Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, Hornady 135gr +P Critical Duty, Federal Classic 115 gr #9BP (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=9BP) ; fr IDA I usually run Federal Champion 115 gr or American Eagle 115 gr and/or 124 gr.

Best, Jon

[beenalongtime]

Ernest, just out of curiosity, what's the lowest power spring you would recommend for defensive use? Is it just a matter of reliability in your mind, or does the pull weight factor in as well? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think I have heard you say the length of pull is more important than weight, but I was just curious if there is a point that weight becomes a factor for you.


And will this change after he gets feedback on the 11# spring?

[LangdonTactical]

You know, you might be the best salesman Beretta has going. First, you (and Bill Wilson) have started turning the 92 series from a nicely designed firearm with much too heavy of a trigger pull, into perhaps the best fullsize DA/SA pistol around.

Now you are turning the PX4--the PX4 of all things!--into a preferred carry gun.

I'm hoping you are getting a commission from Beretta because you now have me wondering whether I need a small PX4 (a PX4 of all things!).

Even five years ago I never would have thought such a thing possible.

Five years ago I would have never thought of shooting a PX4, much less me being a huge fan of the gun at this point. If you would have told me that I would have told you that you were crazy!

[LangdonTactical]

Ernest, just out of curiosity, what's the lowest power spring you would recommend for defensive use? Is it just a matter of reliability in your mind, or does the pull weight factor in as well? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think I have heard you say the length of pull is more important than weight, but I was just curious if there is a point that weight becomes a factor for you.

Yes, it would be a matter of reliability. And there are other factors than hammer spring weight that affects reliability. Hammer weight and ammo for one. If you knew you were only going to shoot federal ammo with a full weight hammer, I think the 12# would be just fine. For a true duty gun (i.e. for a police officer carrying the gun on duty) I would recommend sticking with the D Model hammer spring as it is a factory part. You can get a great trigger on a gun with a 14# hammer spring and the Elite II hammer. That set up should bust any primers you would normally come across in defensive ammo.

Yes, the distance the trigger moves is way more important than the weight of the trigger IMO.

[JonInWA]

Yes, it would be a matter of reliability. And there are other factors than hammer spring weight that affects reliability. Hammer weight and ammo for one. If you knew you were only going to shoot federal ammo with a full weight hammer, I think the 12# would be just fine. For a true duty gun (i.e. for a police officer carrying the gun on duty) I would recommend sticking with the D Model hammer spring as it is a factory part. You can get a great trigger on a gun with a 14# hammer spring and the Elite II hammer. That set up should bust any primers you would normally come across in defensive ammo.

Yes, the distance the trigger moves is way more important than the weight of the trigger IMO.

Don't you mean the distance the HAMMER moves is way more important than the weight of the trigger, Ernest?
(Not that the unwashed should be correcting the master, but...)

Best, Jon

[LangdonTactical]

Don't you mean the distance the HAMMER moves is way more important than the weight of the trigger, Ernest?
(Not that the unwashed should be correcting the master, but...)

Best, Jon

Well, I think the hammer is important, but the movement of the trigger is what keeps people out of trouble. Seeing the hammer move on the gun makes a difference for some people, but the weight of the trigger does not seem to keep people from making mistakes nearly as much as the distance that trigger finger has to move.

[JonInWA]

I get it-I was confusing the hammer impact energy (i.e., the greater hammer impact energy possible with the Langdon/Wilson triggerbar due to increased hammer movement /distance=greater impact energy) with the concept of trigger movement/trigger movement distance. My bad. Thanks for the clarification.

Best, Jon

[LangdonTactical]

OK, the springs are in and I have shipped them out to everyone that has ordered so far. About 50 springs went out this morning, so you should all have them soon.

I tested the spring on one of my full-size guns and it dropped the DA weight about 1/2 a pound. This gun already had a full trigger job and the old 12# hammer spring had about 2,000 rounds on it and was fully polished. The new 11# spring was just dropped in with the one in polished.

I feel confident that this should be a great combo for the PX4.

[LangdonTactical]

So I just returned from a really long range session of testing the 11# springs. I chose to shoot IMI NATO ball and Federal AE as my test ammo. The IMI as it is the hardest factory primers I have and the AE as it has the softest (hardest to ignite and easiest to ignite).

Now, this is a relatively small sample size, so the numbers are just a start at this point.

I will start with the 92. I started with an M9A1 with a Wilson Trigger bar and Elite II hammer. I had three light strikes out of 100 rounds of IMI. All but one fired with the second strike.

I changed to Federal 115 AE, and the gun was 100% with this ammo. Not really surprising.

I then changed the hammer out in the 92 to a standard PX4 hammer. Again, I had three light strikes with the IMI ammo, and two of them would not go with the second strike.

Again, the 92 was 100% with Federal AE. Maybe a little surprising as the PX4 hammer is lighter than the Elite II hammer. Theoretically, it should be less reliable.

I then switched to the Wilson Combat Hammer for the 92. Heavier than the Elite II hammer but lighter than the standard stock hammer. I had 4 light strikes with the Wilson Hammer and two of those did not fire with the second strike. So, not a significate difference and given the small testing batch, within the margin of error for this size of testing.

It is interesting that the gun hand a 3% to 4% failure rate regardless of hammer weight and that the 4% was with the heaviest hammer. But again, we are just getting started with testing.

Again, the gun was 100% with the Federal Ammo.

Now, the PX4 with a standard weight PX4 hammer (the lightest one available) was 100% with the IMI ammo. On top of that, it fired all the rounds that failed to fire in the 92 on the second strike.

This is important as I really think this hammer spring will be 100% in the PX4. When I take into account that I put 50,000 rounds through a single gun with a single 12# hammer spring, I knew we could go a little lighter on the hammer spring in the PX4 and still be 100%.

Also, the difference in hammer strut geometry is very clear between the two guns and it shows in this test. The hammer spring in the standard PX4 is much lighter than the standard 92 spring. I have not measured, but I would guess the standard PX4 hammer spring is close to a 14# hammer spring, maybe a 13.5# spring.

This is very clear in the DA trigger pull measurements between the two guns with the 11# hammer spring. The 92 dropped down to 5.5 lbs in DA, maybe just under that. Where the PX4 is more like 6.5 lbs. Maybe just a little less. The 92 DA is just magical with this 11# spring. So much so that it is kind of hard to believe it will light primers at all. The PX4 DA is great for sure, but not nearly as light and smooth as the 92.

This also confirms my personal belief that you can get away with the 12# hammer spring on the 92 in a carry gun, IF, you will stick with Federal ammo. I know you are pushing the limits, but the 92 appears to be 100% with federal ammo and the 11# hammer spring, at least so far.

Again, this is just the start of this testing. We have a lot more ammo to shoot before I can trust the numbers.

I am looking forward to hearing the results of the others that now have these springs. We shipped about 60 springs last week. So the results should start coming in soon.

[AdioSS]

How about a standard heavy hammer?

[CraigS]

I just tried my 11# spring today in my EII w/ the LTT trigger job in a bag.. Using Federal aluminum case ammo from Walmart. Had 5- light strikes in the first 50 rounds. They were all in SA mode and they all fired when I pulled the trigger again in DA mode. Put my 12# back in the gun. I don't know if the primers in this Walmart ammo are the same as other types of Federal or not. I shot my last 50 rnds of the day from my PX4c w/ 'D' spring. One thing I noticed immediately was I really like the wide face of the PX4 trigger, especially in DA shots..

[LangdonTactical]

How about a standard heavy hammer?
I have not tried that yet, but it is on the list to try.

[LangdonTactical]

I just tried my 11# spring today in my EII w/ the LTT trigger job in a bag.. Using Federal aluminum case ammo from Walmart. Had 5- light strikes in the first 50 rounds. They were all in SA mode and they all fired when I pulled the trigger again in DA mode. Put my 12# back in the gun. I don't know if the primers in this Walmart ammo are the same as other types of Federal or not. I shot my last 50 rnds of the day from my PX4c w/ 'D' spring. One thing I noticed immediately was I really like the wide face of the PX4 trigger, especially in DA shots..

So the first question is, does that same ammo go 100% with the 12# spring?

I did not even know that Federal was making Aluminum cased ammo, never seen that before. So, maybe it is different primers, I really don't know.

The 11# spring is really built for the PX4, not the 92. For sure it is over the edge on the 92, but doable with the right primers. A competition Hammer Spring for sure.

Thanks for posting your results.

[CraigS]

So the first question is, does that same ammo go 100% with the 12# spring?

I did not even know that Federal was making Aluminum cased ammo, never seen that before. So, maybe it is different primers, I really don't know.

The 11# spring is really built for the PX4, not the 92. For sure it is over the edge on the 92, but doable with the right primers. A competition Hammer Spring for sure.

Thanks for posting your results.

It's funny that I don't see the alum case Federal on their website but I have been buying it for maybe 6 months. Screaming deal at $17.79/100 rnds. They also have brass for about a dollar more. The ammo runs about 99% w/ the 12# spring. I got 3 light strikes in maybe 1000 rnds but the last 2 were closer together. So I put in a new 12# spring and a few days later installed my LTT TJIB. Shot maybe 150 rnds and then the 11# spring arrived so I had to try it. 300 rnds today. 50 w/ the 11# and then 250 w/ the 12#. The 250 were perfect. The PX4c is a carry gun so I haven't gone lighter than the 'D' but your comments above make me think I should try a 12# or 13# in it.
BTW have you ever had any trouble w/ the backstraps on the PX4? I guess the steel spring is the final retention but it seems like I am butchering the plastic slots and tabs every time I remove it.

[MSparks909]

EL I am not, but the lightest that *I* feel comfortable using in a 92 is a 13# spring. I’ll run a 12# in my PX4s. Might experiment with the 11# eventually.

[medmo]

Got back home last night and found the 11# spring waiting for me. Ran a comparison with it and the other Px4 springs I have in my Compact Carry this morning. I started a thread earlier today posting the results. 10 samples averaged and the data looks like this:8

Wilson 12# Chrome Silicon
DA - 6.53, SA - 2.57
Beretta Factory Spring
DA - 8.66, SA - 2.97
Beretta Factory D Spring
DA - 8.55, SA - 2.89
Langdon Tactical 11#
DA - 6.08, SA - 2.19

The 11# spring is a keeper. Will be running a few hundred rounds through the pistol over the weekend to confirm reliability.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

So I just returned from a really long range session of testing the 11# springs. I chose to shoot IMI NATO ball and Federal AE as my test ammo. The IMI as it is the hardest factory primers I have and the AE as it has the softest (hardest to ignite and easiest to ignite).

Now, this is a relatively small sample size, so the numbers are just a start at this point.

I will start with the 92. I started with an M9A1 with a Wilson Trigger bar and Elite II hammer. I had three light strikes out of 100 rounds of IMI. All but one fired with the second strike.

I changed to Federal 115 AE, and the gun was 100% with this ammo. Not really surprising.

I then changed the hammer out in the 92 to a standard PX4 hammer. Again, I had three light strikes with the IMI ammo, and two of them would not go with the second strike.

Again, the 92 was 100% with Federal AE. Maybe a little surprising as the PX4 hammer is lighter than the Elite II hammer. Theoretically, it should be less reliable.

I then switched to the Wilson Combat Hammer for the 92. Heavier than the Elite II hammer but lighter than the standard stock hammer. I had 4 light strikes with the Wilson Hammer and two of those did not fire with the second strike. So, not a significate difference and given the small testing batch, within the margin of error for this size of testing.

It is interesting that the gun hand a 3% to 4% failure rate regardless of hammer weight and that the 4% was with the heaviest hammer. But again, we are just getting started with testing.

Again, the gun was 100% with the Federal Ammo.

Now, the PX4 with a standard weight PX4 hammer (the lightest one available) was 100% with the IMI ammo. On top of that, it fired all the rounds that failed to fire in the 92 on the second strike.

This is important as I really think this hammer spring will be 100% in the PX4. When I take into account that I put 50,000 rounds through a single gun with a single 12# hammer spring, I knew we could go a little lighter on the hammer spring in the PX4 and still be 100%.

Also, the difference in hammer strut geometry is very clear between the two guns and it shows in this test. The hammer spring in the standard PX4 is much lighter than the standard 92 spring. I have not measured, but I would guess the standard PX4 hammer spring is close to a 14# hammer spring, maybe a 13.5# spring.

This is very clear in the DA trigger pull measurements between the two guns with the 11# hammer spring. The 92 dropped down to 5.5 lbs in DA, maybe just under that. Where the PX4 is more like 6.5 lbs. Maybe just a little less. The 92 DA is just magical with this 11# spring. So much so that it is kind of hard to believe it will light primers at all. The PX4 DA is great for sure, but not nearly as light and smooth as the 92.

This also confirms my personal belief that you can get away with the 12# hammer spring on the 92 in a carry gun, IF, you will stick with Federal ammo. I know you are pushing the limits, but the 92 appears to be 100% with federal ammo and the 11# hammer spring, at least so far.

Again, this is just the start of this testing. We have a lot more ammo to shoot before I can trust the numbers.

I am looking forward to hearing the results of the others that now have these springs. We shipped about 60 springs last week. So the results should start coming in soon.


Were all the light strikes on DA?

[LangdonTactical]

Were all the light strikes on DA?

No, all the light strikes were not on DA. I did not keep track, but I would say it was 50/50.

Rememeber that I was using the Wilson Trigger bar, which cocks the hammer back to almost the SA point, farther than the standard trigger bar for sure.

[YVK]

Installed this spring in one of my CC and tested for reliability yesterday. I usually keep some Russian ammo for those purposes, and I also shot some federal and cci. About 100 rounds, half of that Russian silver bear, no light strikes. I got bored and stopped at that point. Installed the spring in my second CC. The newer one breaks S.A. between 3.5 and 4.0 lbs, the more shot in gun between 3.0 and 3.5. Older gun has a standard and uncoated hammer, newer - bobbed and NP3'd. Both with EL's trigger work .
Didn't test the DA.

[LangdonTactical]

Installed this spring in one of my CC and tested for reliability yesterday. I usually keep some Russian ammo for those purposes, and I also shot some federal and cci. About 100 rounds, half of that Russian silver bear, no light strikes. I got bored and stopped at that point. Installed the spring in my second CC. The newer one breaks S.A. between 3.5 and 4.0 lbs, the more shot in gun between 3.0 and 3.5. Older gun has a standard and uncoated hammer, newer - bobbed and NP3'd. Both with EL's trigger work .
Didn't test the DA.

That's good news. Not surprised for sure, but thanks for the feedback!

[DanPop]

Just ordered mine, can't wait.

[GyroF-16]

EL- I just noticed that Wilson offers their reduced-power hammer springs in kits that include reduced as low as 12.5#) recoil springs.

I’ve ordered some 11 and 12# hammer springs from you to try out... did your reliability testing use standard recoil springs, or lower powered ones?
All I have are standard recoil springs in all of my guns right now.

[LangdonTactical]

EL- I just noticed that Wilson offers their reduced-power hammer springs in kits that include reduced as low as 12.5#) recoil springs.

I’ve ordered some 11 and 12# hammer springs from you to try out... did your reliability testing use standard recoil springs, or lower powered ones?
All I have are standard recoil springs in all of my guns right now.

I assume you are talking about a model 92 here (as there are no reduced power recoil springs for the PX4 that I know of)?

The recoil springs have nothing to do with the hammer spring when it comes to igniting primers.

Recoil springs for most people, especially people who change ammo often, should likely not be messed with. If you are tuning a gun for a specific load and trying to improve how quickly the sight returns and eliminate dip on the return, recoil springs can be very important. Lighter recoil springs also tend to make the gun feel like it has less recoil and muzzle rise.

Hammer springs can be part of that tuning process as the slide also has to overcome the hammer, and therefore the hammer spring during recoil.

The good news is the 92 will feed very well with a very light recoil spring. The bad news is your likely beating the gun up more than necessary if your shooting full power ammo in a gun with a very light recoil spring.

Bottom line, you likely do not need to change your recoil spring to a reduced power one.

[GyroF-16]

Thank you - yes, I was asking about a 92. That’s good to know. I thought I’d read somewhere that it was important to properly match/balance the two springs. I understand that it has nothing to do with ignition, just wondered about cycling. Right now I’m just concerned with reliable cycling, so I’ll be happy to stay with the stock recoil spring.

Thanks for your time.


I assume you are talking about a model 92 here (as there are no reduced power recoil springs for the PX4 that I know of)?

The recoil springs have nothing to do with the hammer spring when it comes to igniting primers.

Recoil springs for most people, especially people who change ammo often, should likely not be messed with. If you are tuning a gun for a specific load and trying to improve how quickly the sight returns and eliminate dip on the return, recoil springs can be very important. Lighter recoil springs also tend to make the gun feel like it has less recoil and muzzle rise.

Hammer springs can be part of that tuning process as the slide also has to overcome the hammer, and therefore the hammer spring during recoil.

The good news is the 92 will feed very well with a very light recoil spring. The bad news is your likely beating the gun up more than necessary if your shooting full power ammo in a gun with a very light recoil spring.

Bottom line, you likely do not need to change your recoil spring to a reduced power one.

[Johnny Bravo]

Just got back from the range with my faux PX4 CC .40 with the 11lb spring installed. I sent 250 rounds of WWB 165 grain down range with no failures. The gun has become a BTF machine with the 165 grain ammo though. Probably 2 rounds out of every magazine ejected straight back at my face. Very nice trigger with the 11lb spring. Next time out I'll take 180 grain ammo and see if the ejection doesn't settle down.

[Dagga Boy]

I have three Mod 5 and two Mod 4 PX4CC ‘s. The Mod 5’s all had the 11pound Springs installed. My wife and I took our primary guns out today and had a very good range session shooting around 250 rounds of Bulk sale USA 9mm with zero issues. I have had some issues with these rounds not always going off on the first primer strike with a couple of heavily tuned Beretta 92’s, but the PX4CC’s were flawless with the new springs. For me, I would not drop the 92’s to these, but the PX4CC’s are reliable with them enough for me to not worry about. My PX4CC Full Size will be getting one as well when it is built.

[GyroF-16]

Data point:

I ordered 11 and 12# springs hoping that they would provide reliable ignition. I put the 11# spring into a 92 Centurian and took it to the range yesterday. 240 rds with no ignition issues at all. This was 40 rds of Speer factory ammo, and 200 rds of reloads with Winchester WSP primers. This is my practice and IDPA gun, and I’m sold on the 11# spring.
I’ll consider using a 12# spring in a carry gun after vetting with the Federal carry ammo.

Anyway, reliable ignition with a 92 and the light spring was the question mark in my brain as I consisdered ordering, so thought I’d post my initial results in the event that it would ease the mind of anyone on the fence.

I’ll certainly update if I run into any problems.

[Hot Sauce]

Ernest, would you anticipate any problematic part interaction in using the 11# hammer spring with a WC Deluxe hammer in a PX4?

[medmo]

Installed an LT 11# spring in my Px4 Sub Compact 40S&W. Also changed out the hammer to the LT spurless NP3 coated. DA - 7.3lbs and SA 3.5lbs. Tested all good yesterday with 200rnds WW 165gr ball & 50 rnds Win Silvertip 155gr. Solid primer strikes on fired cases.

[Johnny Bravo]

Installed an LT 11# spring in my Px4 Sub Compact 40S&W. Also changed out the hammer to the LT spurless NP3 coated. DA - 7.3lbs and SA 3.5lbs. Tested all good yesterday with 200rnds WW 165gr ball & 50 rnds Win Silvertip 155gr. Solid primer strikes on fired cases.

Did you have any issues with brass coming straight back at you?

[medmo]

Did you have any issues with brass coming straight back at you?

Yes, I had a few that sailed over my head but only with the Win WW 165gr ball ammo.

[Johnny Bravo]

Yes, I had a few that sailed over my head but only with the Win WW 165gr ball ammo.

Thanks, I don't ever remember BTF during earlier range sessions with 180 grain ammo, but this time I changed the hammer spring and was using 165 grain. I'll have to go again with some 180 grain ammo and see how it goes, but it was bad enough that if that doesn't fix it I'll have to put the "D" spring back in.

[JSGlock34]

I recently purchased a Wilson Combat hammer and 12# polished Wilson Combat CS hammer spring from Langdon Tactical to mate with my Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical 92G. This particular pistol has a Langdon Tactical tuned trigger using the Wilson Combat bar. I had previously experimented with lighter hammer springs in this pistol, finding that a 13# Wilson Combat CS spring was the lightest that would still provide for reliable ignition.

I had time for a brief range session today, and found the combination of the WC hammer and 12# spring provided for 100% ignition for 153 rounds of American Eagle 147 grain FMJ. Not an exhaustive test by any stretch, but a good start. I plan to try some 147 grain Speer Lawman TMJ and 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot JHP during my next trip.

Trigger pull is fantastic with the 12# spring. I'm not quite ready to try the 11#...yet.

[LangdonTactical]

Ernest, would you anticipate any problematic part interaction in using the 11# hammer spring with a WC Deluxe hammer in a PX4?

No, I have used the Wilson hammer in a couple of PX4s with no issues. I am currently testing a Full-Size PX4 with a Standard PX4 hammer (much lighter than the Elite II Hammer or the Wilson Hammer) and have had no issues in about 2000 rounds.

[GyroF-16]

Data point:

I ordered 11 and 12# springs hoping that they would provide reliable ignition. I put the 11# spring into a 92 Centurian and took it to the range yesterday. 240 rds with no ignition issues at all. This was 40 rds of Speer factory ammo, and 200 rds of reloads with Winchester WSP primers. This is my practice and IDPA gun, and I’m sold on the 11# spring.
I’ll consider using a 12# spring in a carry gun after vetting with the Federal carry ammo.

Anyway, reliable ignition with a 92 and the light spring was the question mark in my brain as I consisdered ordering, so thought I’d post my initial results in the event that it would ease the mind of anyone on the fence.

I’ll certainly update if I run into any problems.

Okay- I’ve got about 800 rounds downrange with the 11 pound spring, and had my first light strike yesterday.
It was a double-action shot with a reloaded round with a WSP primer. It ignited on the second attempt, single action.
This is a Centurian, my practice and competition gun. Standard hammer, OEM trigger bar. First light strike I’ve had in about 10,000 reloaded rounds with WSP primers.

No hit on the Langdon 11# spring- just a reminder not to use it on a carry gun where 100% reliability is the priority.

[LangdonTactical]

Okay- I’ve got about 800 rounds downrange with the 11 pound spring, and had my first light strike yesterday.
It was a double-action shot with a reloaded round with a WSP primer. It ignited on the second attempt, single action.
This is a Centurian, my practice and competition gun. Standard hammer, OEM trigger bar. First light strike I’ve had in about 10,000 reloaded rounds with WSP primers.

No hit on the Langdon 11# spring- just a reminder not to use it on a carry gun where 100% reliability is the priority.

Yeah, in a 92 it is a competition spring for sure. Maybe a federal primer spring as well. The Wilson Trigger Bar really does help though.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

No, I have used the Wilson hammer in a couple of PX4s with no issues. I am currently testing a Full-Size PX4 with a Standard PX4 hammer (much lighter than the Elite II Hammer or the Wilson Hammer) and have had no issues in about 2000 rounds.

How many rounds are the 11# springs up to now in the PX4s? Any light strikes?

[GyroF-16]

Yeah, in a 92 it is a competition spring for sure. Maybe a federal primer spring as well. The Wilson Trigger Bar really does help though.

Maybe that will finally give me an excuse to put one on this gun, then.

[beenalongtime]

Yeah, in a 92 it is a competition spring for sure. Maybe a federal primer spring as well. The Wilson Trigger Bar really does help though.

What is the trigger bar in the Langdon M9?
I've read on another forum, that other dealers are going to be selling those soon, and am thinking about a all metal gun.

[DanPop]

I only have about 300 rnds through my 9mm full size px4 since I installed 11# spring, no issues, feels great.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I only have about 300 rnds through my 9mm full size px4 since I installed 11# spring, no issues, feels great.

Thanks!

[LangdonTactical]

How many rounds are the 11# springs up to now in the PX4s? Any light strikes?
I am a little over 3,000 rounds with the 11# spring in a full size. One light strike on IMI 124 NATO ammo that went on the second strike. No issues with any other ammo I have run including a bunch of lead-free ammo and CCI Lawman.

[LangdonTactical]

What is the trigger bar in the Langdon M9?
I've read on another forum, that other dealers are going to be selling those soon, and am thinking about a all metal gun.

The Langdon M9 comes with a standard factory trigger bar like all the other 92s and M9s come with.

[Exiledviking]

I probably missed it but looking at the new spring, the polished end of the spring goes towards the shoulder of the hammer strut or against the cap?

[LangdonTactical]

I probably missed it but looking at the new spring, the polished end of the spring goes towards the shoulder of the hammer strut or against the cap?

It should go against the cap, not the strut.

[GyroF-16]

It should go against the cap, not the strut.

Oops- I feel a little silly. I assumed it went the other way.
Guess I’ll have to swap it around next time I get the gun and tools out.

[Exiledviking]

Oops- I feel a little silly. I assumed it went the other way.
Guess I’ll have to swap it around next time I get the gun and tools out.Don't feel silly. I thought the same. I'm glad I asked.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Unless the struts are modified, they make a notch that the spring will twist onto and be captured. Movement and binding would only occur at the bottom. This is why the polished end can be taken advantage of at the bottom, cap side.

[Prdator]

I put two 11# springs in my two PX4CC-Mod 4's and it really helped the DA pull. Its closer to the full house custom 92A1's that LTT did for me, and that is a WIN!!!

[JSGlock34]

I had time for a brief range session today, and found the combination of the WC hammer and 12# spring provided for 100% ignition for 153 rounds of American Eagle 147 grain FMJ. Not an exhaustive test by any stretch, but a good start. I plan to try some 147 grain Speer Lawman TMJ and 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot JHP during my next trip.

Today I fired 153 rounds of Speer 147 grain TMJ through my Brigadier Tactical with the 12# hammer spring, WC trigger bar, and WC hammer. I had one light strike that fired with a second pull of the trigger. I also fired 50 rounds of the new 150 grain Federal Syntech Action Pistol with no issues. Ran out of time before the Gold Dot.

[medmo]

I’m calling it good with my Px4s with the 11# LT spring. I’m trying to think exactly of how many 9mms I’ve run through the CC with the 11# spring and guessing above 700. Close to 400 with the 40S&W SC. I don’t shoot the 40S&W SC as much. I know a lot of you guys are thinking why at the 40S&W idea but it’s a CenTex hog thing.

[JSGlock34]

Today I fired 153 rounds of Speer 147 grain TMJ through my Brigadier Tactical with the 12# hammer spring, WC trigger bar, and WC hammer. I had one light strike that fired with a second pull of the trigger. I also fired 50 rounds of the new 150 grain Federal Syntech Action Pistol with no issues. Ran out of time before the Gold Dot.

207 problem free rounds of AE 147 grain FMJ today.

Does the preference for Federal primers with the reduced power hammer springs extend to duty quality ammunition? I tend to favor Speer Gold Dots (G2), but the light strike with the Speer Lawman TMJ has me thinking of picking up some boxes of Federal HST for my Brigadier Tactical.

I seem to recall that the G2 primer was changed when the initial lot demonstrated some problems.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

LangdonTactical

How many rounds do you have on a single 11# spring in a PX4 Storm now?

Any light strikes?

[Sensei]

The fact that some are reporting rare light strikes with the 12lb spring in 92-series guns has me thinking that I was correct to stick with 14lb springs for my carry guns that have the Langdon TJIAB. I suppose that 13lbs is possibly reliable but I’m pretty happy with the 8ish DA and 3ish SA pulls that I’m getting at 14lbs. I’ve found that using the UltraThin grips also dramatically helps improve the DA trigger pull by improving my finger’s mechanical advantage.

[Prdator]

The fact that some are reporting rare light strikes with the 12lb spring in 92-series guns has me thinking that I was correct to stick with 14lb springs for my carry guns that have the Langdon TJIAB. I suppose that 13lbs is possibly reliable but I’m pretty happy with the 8ish DA and 3ish SA pulls that I’m getting at 14lbs. I’ve found that using the UltraThin grips also dramatically helps improve the DA trigger pull by improving my finger’s mechanical advantage.

I have the 12# springs in 4 full house custom guns from Langdon Tactical and they have anywhere from 1-10k as of this weekend on one and Ive had no light primer strikes on quite a few different kinds of ammo! and I use HST as my carry round in the 92's and Gold dots in the PX4CC and they have been 100% with them. and my PX4CC have the 11# hammer spring in them.

I think federal and speer have some of the more soft primers so that might be whats helping me as well..

[LangdonTactical]

LangdonTactical

How many rounds do you have on a single 11# spring in a PX4 Storm now?

Any light strikes?

I have about 3000 rounds in two different guns with the 11# spring. One light strike so far with some IMI Nato Ball, out of about 600 rounds, that went bang on the second strike.

[LangdonTactical]

The fact that some are reporting rare light strikes with the 12lb spring in 92-series guns has me thinking that I was correct to stick with 14lb springs for my carry guns that have the Langdon TJIAB. I suppose that 13lbs is possibly reliable but I’m pretty happy with the 8ish DA and 3ish SA pulls that I’m getting at 14lbs. I’ve found that using the UltraThin grips also dramatically helps improve the DA trigger pull by improving my finger’s mechanical advantage.

OK, let's be clear again. The 92 and the PX4 are different animals altogether when it comes to hammer springs. The 12# spring is a 100% spring in the PX4, I put 50K on the same spring with no issues.

The 11# spring is likely too light in the 92 for anything but a competition gun with federal primers.

The PX4 stock spring is likely a 14 to 15 lb spring as it comes from Beretta Italy, lighter than the D spring in a 92.

[Sensei]

OK, let's be clear again. The 92 and the PX4 are different animals altogether when it comes to hammer springs. The 12# spring is a 100% spring in the PX4, I put 50K on the same spring with no issues.

The 11# spring is likely too light in the 92 for anything but a competition gun with federal primers.

The PX4 stock spring is likely a 14 to 15 lb spring as it comes from Beretta Italy, lighter than the D spring in a 92.

Roger that. I was specifically referring to just the 92 series guns and going below 14 lbs in a carry gun. I’ve had great luck with your TJIAB and 14lb spring in 2 different 92-series guns (92 FS and M9A3) and across a variety of ammo. There is a side of me that wants to try the Wilson 13lb spring under the logic that the Wilson trigger bar may allow 100% reliability. I’ve resisted that temptation just for the extra piece of mind.

Thanks again for your great product and advice.

EDT: I do not YET have a PX4 compact carry, but I’m working to correct that deficiency. Do you happen to have an instillation video for your PX4 TJIAB like your 92-series video? I looked on your website and YouTube but came up with nada.

[JSGlock34]

Roger that. I was specifically referring to just the 92 series guns and going below 14 lbs in a carry gun. I’ve had great luck with your TJIAB and 14lb spring in 2 different 92-series guns (92 FS and M9A3) and across a variety of ammo. There is a side of me that wants to try the Wilson 13lb spring under the logic that the Wilson trigger bar may allow 100% reliability. I’ve resisted that temptation just for the extra piece of mind.

I don't think you'll have a problem with the Wilson 13# CS spring and the Wilson trigger bar in your 92. My experience has been solid with that setup, even without the Wilson hammer. Dipping below 13# hasn't been as reliable for me, and I had hoped the Wilson hammer would help with that. I need to put a few boxes of Speer Gold Dot through my pistol with the 12# before I'd be confident in it for carry, but the light strike with the Speer Lawman TMJ has me hesitant (to your point about peace of mind), which is why I was asking about the Speer Gold Dot (specifically G2) primers. 12# has been 100% with Federal primers so far.

[Sensei]

I don't think you'll have a problem with the Wilson 13# CS spring and the Wilson trigger bar in your 92. My experience has been solid with that setup, even without the Wilson hammer. Dipping below 13# hasn't been as reliable for me, and I had hoped the Wilson hammer would help with that. I need to put a few boxes of Speer Gold Dot through my pistol with the 12# before I'd be confident in it for carry, but the light strike with the Speer Lawman TMJ has me hesitant (to your point about peace of mind), which is why I was asking about the Speer Gold Dot (specifically G2) primers. 12# has been 100% with Federal primers so far.

Thanks. I may give it a try down the road. Having spent close to 1,000 rounds over the past couple of weeks between the 2 guns with a TJIAB + 14lb springs, overcoming the psychological inertia of starting over with 13lb springs is a bit much right now.

On the other hand, I have enough experience with these 2 guns to say that Mr. Langdon’s TJIAB is well worth investment. It greatly improves the smoothness of the pull and shortens the reset a bit. It’s a no brained for people with several 92s and the need for an affordable method to greatly improve the quality of the trigger.

[beenalongtime]

EDT: I do not YET have a PX4 compact carry, but I’m working to correct that deficiency. Do you happen to have an instillation video for your PX4 TJIAB like your 92-series video? I looked on your website and YouTube but came up with nada.


While not specifically on the hammer (it doesn't show not completely pushing the pin out for trigger bar replacement, so your not fighting the trigger spring), this is the one of his I would say covers most of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ9zBN_0Oek

[Jeep]

I have enough experience with these 2 guns to say that Mr. Langdon’s TJIAB is well worth investment. It greatly improves the smoothness of the pull and shortens the reset a bit. It’s a no brained for people with several 92s and the need for an affordable method to greatly improve the quality of the trigger.

I just installed the TJIAB in a M9 and the trigger pull is amazing--extremely smooth. I'm going to test both 14 and 13 lb mainsprings, but the TJIAB is a fantastic upgrade on a pistol that has a lot of advantages but has been held back somewhat by its trigger.

[Jeep]

I've now tested the M9 and it is awesome. I started with a 14# spring, but decided to jump down to the 12#. The 14# felt very smooth; the 12# is very smooth and light. The DA pull is under 7lbs; the SA pull is--if my trigger gauge can be trusted at all--slightly less than 2.75lbs.

I figured that it wouldn't reliably bust primers, but so far I've put though 60 rounds of 147 gr. HST; and 240 rounds of assorted 115 gr. FMJ. No misfires or any other problems.

I let some other vets fire it and they uniformly said this was the way the military should have had the pistol set up in the first place (my own thought for a military gun would be to use the 14# hammer spring, not the 12#, just in case and because springs wear out).

But the trigger job in a bag with any of the hammer springs really does turn the Beretta 92 platform into an amazing pistol. I'm hoping to be able to shoot it again this weekend, and then put a bunch of rounds through it to see how it holds up.

Anyway, for anyone who kinda, somewhat, maybe likes Berettas, but have been put off by the triggers, you really ought to try the TJIAB.

[Bobert1035]

Old thread, but just ordered the 11# spring for my new-to-me PX4 full size. It was a police gun, so broken in with a very smooth DA/SA pull. I'm very curious what this spring will do to the pull!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

LangdonTactical How many rounds have you got on the 11# spring you put in your PX4 Storm? Any light strikes? If so, how many?

[medmo]

LangdonTactical How many rounds have you got on the 11# spring you put in your PX4 Storm? Any light strikes? If so, how many?

I’m not trying to answer for LTT but I have a have gone through over a case of Fiocchi 115gr ball with no failures with my Px4 CC & SC using the LTT 11# hammer spring. No failures or light strikes. I also dry fire quite a bit for training. I’ve made my personal judgment of “good to go” for carry with this spring.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I’m not trying to answer for LTT but I have a have gone through over a case of Fiocchi 115gr ball with no failures with my Px4 CC & SC using the LTT 11# hammer spring. No failures or light strikes. I also dry fire quite a bit for training. I’ve made my personal judgment of “good to go” for carry with this spring.

Thanks

[flgunnie]

I put in the 11# spring in my Wilson Centurion Tactical, ran 300 rounds of American Eagle 124 and 147 and some Atlanta Arms Select 147, no failures. I hear Federal is supposed to be the softest primers, not sure what Atlanta Arms uses.

DA trigger is now a smooth long roll vs. with the D spring were it felt like a distinctly increasing effort as you pulled until the wall.

[Bobert1035]

Just dropped the 11# spring into my well used PX4 full size this morning. No live fire, but the DA dropped from over 8lbs (scale only goes that high, I'd say 10ish) to right around 7.5lbs, and I assume it will break in a bit more. SA didn't change drastically, but both feel smooth. Well worth the upgrade, I can only imagine what this spring and the TJIAB would be like! Range report hopefully next weekend.

[flgunnie]

I tested the 11# spring in my Wilson Centac with the following defense ammo: Hornady Critical Duty 135gr, SigSauer 124gr JHP, and Speer GoldDots 124gr, all fired successfully with no failures.

[LangdonTactical]

I tested the 11# spring in my Wilson Centac with the following defense ammo: Hornady Critical Duty 135gr, SigSauer 124gr JHP, and Speer GoldDots 124gr, all fired successfully with no failures.

Be careful with the 11# spring in the 92, it is well under spec for that gun. Works great in the PX4, but the 92 needs more hammer spring than the PX4.

[flgunnie]

Be careful with the 11# spring in the 92, it is well under spec for that gun. Works great in the PX4, but the 92 needs more hammer spring than the PX4.

Good recommendation. I am only using the 11# for range fun. For carry, I go back to the factory D spring. I was just providing my experience that the softer spring seemed to work on Federal and CCI primers and whatever Sig uses.

[beenalongtime]

Has anyone dropped one of these in the .45 PX4 and how is it working or not?

Thanks

[Bobert1035]

I put 150 rds (100 remington umc, 50 federal efmj I had laying around) through my full size 40 with the 11#spring today. Obviously not statistically significant, especially compared to EL's testing, but zero light strikes and nice trigger pulls both DA/SA. The pistol is of course way more accurate than I am.

[beenalongtime]

LangdonTactical Do you use the 11# spring in your carry gun, or just your range gun? I have a gal that is getting one of my PX4's (trying a couple sizes, but seems to be leaning toward the subcompact as same size as her J frame), and she loves my practice guns (have the 11#), but hasn't tried the carry (12#). I'm still on the fence, personally (not enough range time).

Plan on both making a day of shooting on a LEO friends farm for her to make her decision (s), on trigger, ammo, gun size, safety/decocker (now thinking I should have bought/stashed a fugly, as she has young kids).
Also wish I could get my full order together, but life, your inventory, etc. etc. etc. always gets in the way, so partial order coming.

Thank you!

[Grecco]

I received my two #11 springs friday.
Here are the results in my px4 compact.

WC#13 SA / 3.39
LTT#12 SA/3.13
WC#13 DA/6.96
LTT#12 DA/6.14
I will note the da with LTT does feel more consistant and smoother.

[Johnny Bravo]

I had to take the #11 spring out of my .40 Compact and put the "D" Spring back in. I think the .40 was just a little to spirited for the #11 spring. Among other things I got BTF three or four times out of every magazine and it really launched them at me.

If I ever get a PX4 CC I will try the #11 spring again.

[JohnN]

LangdonTactical Do you use the 11# spring in your carry gun, or just your range gun? I have a gal that is getting one of my PX4's (trying a couple sizes, but seems to be leaning toward the subcompact as same size as her J frame), and she loves my practice guns (have the 11#), but hasn't tried the carry (12#). I'm still on the fence, personally (not enough range time).

Plan on both making a day of shooting on a LEO friends farm for her to make her decision (s), on trigger, ammo, gun size, safety/decocker (now thinking I should have bought/stashed a fugly, as she has young kids).
Also wish I could get my full order together, but life, your inventory, etc. etc. etc. always gets in the way, so partial order coming.

Thank you!

Not Ernest but I have several thousand rounds through a Compact Carry and full size with zero light strikes using the 11lb. spring. Mainly shooting 124gr. S&B ammo.

[gato naranja]

I have a gal that is getting one of my PX4's (trying a couple sizes, but seems to be leaning toward the subcompact as same size as her J frame), and she loves my practice guns (have the 11#), but hasn't tried the carry (12#). I'm still on the fence, personally (not enough range time).

I have had a number of women try one of the subcompact PX4s, and - if their hands/fingers are such that they can manage to reach the trigger and use it - they tend to like the little critters. Unfortunately, they end up buying something else because the 9mm PX4 subcompacts have been very hard for them to find.

Some of the ladies that have had trouble managing the DA pull and overall qualities of a J-frame, SP101 (or even LCR) found that a PX4 subcompact's DA pull and behavior was quite manageable; this was/is with, in turn, the factory spring, the Beretta Cougar D spring and the 12# LTT PX4 spring. The LTT 12# has provided the lightest DA pull of the lot.

(It has even pleasantly surprised a few congenital Berettaphobes.)

The fly in the ointment is that on my PX4 with slicked up innards, the SA pull even with the 12# spring has proven a bit light for some shooters. I am toying with trying an 11# on a bone-stock subcompact and comparing the two.

gn

[Bobert1035]

I had to take the #11 spring out of my .40 Compact and put the "D" Spring back in. I think the .40 was just a little to spirited for the #11 spring. Among other things I got BTF three or four times out of every magazine and it really launched them at me.

If I ever get a PX4 CC I will try the #11 spring again.

I was wondering how the lighter hammer springs might affect recoil characteristics in both the PX4 and 92 series. My 40 seemed relatively snappy, but I bet part of that is a recoil spring of unknown round count, and my relative lack of experience with the round. I never shot the PX4 with the stock spring so I don't have a direct comparison.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I still have to read a lot of this thread and will do so here shortly, but I’m hoping you all can help me answer a couple of questions. I’m currently everyday carrying my Wilson Combat / Beretta 92G CC. Love the gun and will be very excited if Langdon comes out with a compact. Anyways, this gun just passed 3000 rounds and the only malfunctions I’ve experienced have just started happening - light strikes. I just had two on double action pulls in the last 294 rounds. Not a great feeling since this is my current EDC. I’ve noticed them the last few range sessions, so in the last 1000 rounds I’d say I’ve had about 6-8 light strikes. I don’t remember ever having them before. I am shooting Fiocchi 115 grain FMJ and also shot some Blazer Aluminum cased 115 grain.

What hammer spring does this 92G CC come with from the factory? What hammer spring should I replace it with if that is indeed the fix? What other springs should I be concerned about at this point? I want this sucker back to 100% reliability. Oh and all but one went bang on the second DA attempt to fire. The one that didn’t was one of the Blazer Aluminum cased rounds. I tried twice then tap rack banged and continued to fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSGlock34]

I still have to read a lot of this thread and will do so here shortly, but I’m hoping you all can help me answer a couple of questions. I’m currently everyday carrying my Wilson Combat / Beretta 92G CC. Love the gun and will be very excited if Langdon comes out with a compact. Anyways, this gun just passed 3000 rounds and the only malfunctions I’ve experienced have just started happening - light strikes. I just had two on double action pulls in the last 294 rounds. Not a great feeling since this is my current EDC. I’ve noticed them the last few range sessions, so in the last 1000 rounds I’d say I’ve had about 6-8 light strikes. I don’t remember ever having them before. I am shooting Fiocchi 115 grain FMJ and also shot some Blazer Aluminum cased 115 grain.

What hammer spring does this 92G CC come with from the factory? What hammer spring should I replace it with if that is indeed the fix? What other springs should I be concerned about at this point? I want this sucker back to 100% reliability. Oh and all but one went bang on the second DA attempt to fire. The one that didn’t was one of the Blazer Aluminum cased rounds. I tried twice then tap rack banged and continued to fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure the 92G Custom Carry has a D spring (16#), which should be more than enough for reliable ignition. If the 115 grain Blazer is from the Black Friday Bulk Packs, I'm inclined to blame the ammunition and not the gun. I encountered a dud or two in my batch.

[usmc_k9_vet]

Pretty sure the 92G Custom Carry has a D spring (16#), which should be more than enough for reliable ignition. If the 115 grain Blazer is from the Black Friday Bulk Packs, I'm inclined to blame the ammunition and not the gun. I encountered a dud or two in my batch.

Thank you for that info, but it has also happened a good 4-5 times in the last 1000 rounds with Fiocchi 115 grain FMJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSGlock34]

I'll share this advice from Stimpee (a Beretta employee) that he posted when I encountered some light strikes while tuning my Brigadier Tactical. My problems were attributed to an out-of-spec 13# spring though. The 16# spring should not be a problem with factory ammunition.


How many rounds thru the gun?

We have found that with the lighter hammer springs, the gun can be much more sensitive to "schmutz" buildup in the firing pin channel and may require more substantial cleaning than normal. This is shown via evidence from doing firing pin indent tests on SAAMI spec copper crushers before/after a thorough detail strip and cleaning.

However should be probably 3500-5000 rounds before you would ever see this, depending on the ammo you are using. Some ammo, even decent quality stuff, can burn kind of dirty and gum things up.

[GyroF-16]

I’ll second the recommendation to look at the firing pin channel. In many thousands of rounds with a D spring, I’ve never had a light strike.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I’ll second the recommendation to look at the firing pin channel. In many thousands of rounds with a D spring, I’ve never had a light strike.

That’s probably a wise idea and something I will do. Sounds like a full detail strip is in order. This leads me to think of some other questions:

For 92G Brig Tac:
-what is the standard weight recoil spring? 14#? 16#?
-how many rounds before replacing recoil spring?
-how many rounds before replacing firing pin spring?

For 92G CC
-what is the standard weight recoil spring? 14#? 16#?
-how many rounds before replacing recoil spring?
-how many rounds before replacing firing pin spring?


Thank you all for the insight and info. This is a great thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[usmc_k9_vet]

Put another 300 Fiocchi 115 grain FMJ through the 92G CC today. No light strikes (or any other malfunctions). Still need to field strip and clean it because it’s pretty filthy, but running like a sewing machine.

Emailed Langdon with some questions because I think I’m going to pick up an Elite LTT. Carry bevel, NP3, and mag guide and it’ll be all set.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSGlock34]

Finally found some ammo that a 13# spring in a Beretta LTT with action tune doesn't like...Blazer 147 grain. This is the aluminum cased ammunition, and I understand hard primers are not uncommon. I've set aside my remaining Blazer for my Glocks (which is unfortunate since I like this load), and I'll keep my Beretta 92s fed with AE 147 grain.

[learnerpermitted]

I wanted to reply to this thread and add to the sample size so people who are interested in the future can get a better consensus about this spring.

I Installed and tried out the 11# spring in my two PX4CC’s this past weekend, one is my CCW and the other is my practice-CCW. I ran about 100 rounds of CCI Blazer Brass 124gr in my CCW and about 600 rounds in my practice-CCW. Everything ran fine. I had maybe two failure-to-feeds which resolved with a tap to the rear of the slide but those were definitely unrelated to the hammer springs. In hindsight the ammo felt really weak.

Impressions on the trigger pull:
The DA pull feels great and practicing all the DA pulls didn’t leave my trigger finger feeling tired afterwards. With the factory spring, as I pull the trigger in DA I can feel the click when hammer is half-cocked. That can be a little distracting. But with the 11# spring ,the click can still be heard but not as tactilely (NOT tactically haha) pronounced so its nice to me because its not as distracting. With the lighter spring, the wall of the SA pull isn’t as obvious and im still debating if thats a good or bad thing.

My hands are a wee bit too small for the DA pull on the PX4 so having to manipulate my grip and adjust my trigger pull with the factory hammer spring requires a lot of focus to keep the front sight steady. With the lighter pull I now need less focus keeping the front sight steady. Additionally, watching youtube videos of Mr. Langdon describing how he rolls through the DA pull in one smooth motion, I now feel its a lot easier for me to do with the lighter pull.

My only concern is the SA pull is a wee bit too light for my taste. Of course I know and focus to keep my finger off the trigger when I am not firing the weapon. However, im worried in a intense situation or when I take a fall, I will inadvertently slip my finger into the trigger guard. Its never happened in the 10 years I’ve owned guns, but I have a tendency to worry too much. The best solution I have come up with is more training and participating in local IDPA matches and first taking it slow to focus and reinforce the proper placement of my trigger finger.

Overall I really like the 11# springs and I am keeping them in my PX4CC’s

Sorry for the long post.

[gato naranja]

My only concern is the SA pull is a wee bit too light for my taste. Of course I know and focus to keep my finger off the trigger when I am not firing the weapon. However, im worried in a intense situation or when I take a fall, I will inadvertently slip my finger into the trigger guard. Its never happened in the 10 years I’ve owned guns, but I have a tendency to worry too much. The best solution I have come up with is more training and participating in local IDPA matches and first taking it slow to focus and reinforce the proper placement of my trigger finger.

An 11# spring would probably be an epic fail for me. I can shoot a rifle with set triggers that have stupidly light pulls, but when I shoot a pistol with a very light pull, I develop "issues." A friend's old "slant grip" Hi-Standard that had a scary light pull would do rather disconcerting things whenever I tried it, and I considered that pistol and me to be a pointless, if not dangerous combination.

In my PX4 subcompacts, the 12# spring is beautiful for DA, but a bit too light in SA, so I shoot the SCs better in DA than SA at this point in time. As I put more rounds through them and they continue to smooth out, I am convinced that I will eventually be switching out to 13# springs.

gn

[revchuck38]

Since this thread came back up, I wanted to add a data point. In the PX4, the 11 lb spring isn’t reliable with hard primer ammo, in my case with Winchester NATO-spec hardball. It has worked fine with everything else I tried in it. I sent my PX4 D to Ernest for a trigger job and requested the 12 lb spring for that reason. The trigger is smooth enough that it’s not an issue. :)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Since this thread came back up, I wanted to add a data point. In the PX4, the 11 lb spring isn’t reliable with hard primer ammo, in my case with Winchester NATO-spec hardball. It has worked fine with everything else I tried in it. I sent my PX4 D to Ernest for a trigger job and requested the 12 lb spring for that reason. The trigger is smooth enough that it’s not an issue. :)

I am curious if the light strikes happened from the beginning or if after a certain amount of rounds on that spring you started to experience light strikes?

[Medusa]

I’m up to a bit over 4,200 rounds on my px4ccs with 11 lb hammer springs, without issue.

[revchuck38]

PX4 Storm Tracker - I had put a few hundred rounds through it before I tried the NATO-spec stuff, both factory and handloads, with no issues. I tried a partial box (36 rounds) of the NATO-spec and had two rounds that required a second strike. I had no issues with either a 12 lb (switched from another PX4) or its original D spring. When I got the gun back from LTT with the 12 lb spring, I ran a hundred rounds of the Winchester through it and had no issues. My two TDA PX4s also have 12 lb hammer springs in them, so the DA is very similar among them.

I just like the Winchester NATO-spec hardball for training ammo, it's really similar to 124-grain +P HST (my carry ammo), and it's cheap and usually available.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

... or its original D spring...

That is great information, thanks!

I put an 11# spring in my full size 9. I don't have many rounds on it, since I hardly shoot it. It falls into the category of "not my .45". We also put an 11# spring in my wife's range PX4 SubCompact and she has nearly 3,000 rounds on it. I am having her use only cheap Winchester target fodder and I use Federal Champions in my Storm 9. I want her to have to whack hard primes with it. We put a D spring in my shooting partner's Storm 9 full size for full comparative testing.
Since the best testing would be in my PX4 .45 which does 900 rounds per week, that might come one day. Right now I'm still testing my D spring which is almost at 50,000 rounds with no light strikes.

If I may.... To clarify your statement, "...its original D spring" I would ask what you mean by original? All PX4s... TDA, mono-actions, Compact Carry, come from Beretta with a standard strength hammer spring (I don't know if they distribute the Carry). This would include the type D. Also, the Competition Trigger Group comes with a standard strength spring, just nickel coated.

The term D spring has application in a Model 92D, Cougar D, but the PX4 D does not have a "D" spring assigned to it. The well known D spring for a PX4 is actually a Cougar D spring that is the same size. I'm sure you know this, but as others read I thought I would clarify.

A Cougar D spring will give similar initial results as a Wilson Combat 12# spring from a Model 92 would in a PX4. The Chrome Silicon of the 12# will cause it to maintain its strength a little longer. So, an aged D spring will fall somewhere between the 12# and the 11# in trigger pull weights (according to my experiences and measurements).

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I’m up to a bit over 4,200 rounds on my px4ccs with 11 lb hammer springs, without issue.

Thanks! You have the highest round count I have seen reported.

[revchuck38]

That is great information, thanks!

I put an 11# spring in my full size 9. I don't have many rounds on it, since I hardly shoot it. It falls into the category of "not my .45". We also put an 11# spring in my wife's range PX4 SubCompact and she has nearly 3,000 rounds on it. I am having her use only cheap Winchester target fodder and I use Federal Champions in my Storm 9. I want her to have to whack hard primes with it. We put a D spring in my shooting partner's Storm 9 full size for full comparative testing.
Since the best testing would be in my PX4 .45 which does 900 rounds per week, that might come one day. Right now I'm still testing my D spring which is almost at 50,000 rounds with no light strikes.

If I may.... To clarify your statement, "...its original D spring" I would ask what you mean by original? All PX4s... TDA, mono-actions, Compact Carry, come from Beretta with a standard strength hammer spring (I don't know if they distribute the Carry). This would include the type D. Also, the Competition Trigger Group comes with a standard strength spring, just nickel coated.

The term D spring has application in a Model 92D, Cougar D, but the PX4 D does not have a "D" spring assigned to it. The well known D spring for a PX4 is actually a Cougar D spring that is the same size. I'm sure you know this, but as others read I thought I would clarify.

A Cougar D spring will give similar initial results as a Wilson Combat 12# spring from a Model 92 would in a PX4. The Chrome Silicon of the 12# will cause it to maintain its strength a little longer. So, an aged D spring will fall somewhere between the 12# and the 11# in trigger pull weights (according to my experiences and measurements).
To clarify, I meant the spring that was in it when I bought it used, apparently an LEO trade-in. I assumed (there’s that acronym) that the D model came with a D spring. It certainly felt lighter than the factory spring in my TDA gun. I have a D spring from Beretta still in the package that I could try for comparison, but IIRC Langdon has said that it’s rated at 12.5 lb so I probably couldn’t tell the difference.

[revchuck38]

I’m up to a bit over 4,200 rounds on my px4ccs with 11 lb hammer springs, without issue.


Thanks! You have the highest round count I have seen reported.

That’s probably because she’s on the range while the other lawyers in her office are playing golf. :)

[That Guy]

I’m up to a bit over 4,200 rounds on my px4ccs with 11 lb hammer springs, without issue.

But with what ammo? Anything with particularly hard primers?

[Medusa]

But with what ammo? Anything with particularly hard primers?

Nah, not really. Lots of Fiocchi 115, federal xm9001, and lawman 115 with a bit of lawman 124.

[JSGlock34]

I am doing some testing right now to try and figure out what the best combos are for the 92 and the PX4. I have already figured out that some of my previous assumptions where wrong. For example, the PX4 hammer is lighter than the Elite II hammer. It's even lighter than the original Elite hammer, which is not reliable at all with light springs. Yet the PX4 hammer seems to be very reliable. But the weight of that hammer is positioned differently than any of the other Beretta factory hammers.

What is it about the PX4 geometry that makes it so much more reliable with lighter weight hammer springs?

I've been reflecting on 92 hammer options recently. I haven't seen any material difference between the Elite II and Wilson hammers in the 92 when it comes to igniting primers. If the E2 won't light it, the Wilson won't either. Weight clearly isn't everything when it comes to hammer impact.

[LangdonTactical]

What is it about the PX4 geometry that makes it so much more reliable with lighter weight hammer springs?

I've been reflecting on 92 hammer options recently. I haven't seen any material difference between the Elite II and Wilson hammers in the 92 when it comes to igniting primers. If the E2 won't light it, the Wilson won't either. Weight clearly isn't everything when it comes to hammer impact.

Weight and speed are a factor. The geometry of the PX4 hammer strut is different, giving it more energy with a lighter hammer spring. The firing pin the PX4 is also slightly different.

Lots of moving parts for sure. I am running an 11lb hammer spring in my current full-size PX4, with the lightest hammer (the standard PX4 hammer) and it runs everything. My 92 with a 12lb hammer spring and an Elite Hammer gives me occasional light strikes with certain ammo.

That said, the trigger in the 92 with the 12lb hammer spring is simply amazing!

[John Ralston]

Weight and speed are a factor. The geometry of the PX4 hammer strut is different, giving it more energy with a lighter hammer spring. The firing pin the PX4 is also slightly different.

Lots of moving parts for sure. I am running an 11lb hammer spring in my current full-size PX4, with the lightest hammer (the standard PX4 hammer) and it runs everything. My 92 with a 12lb hammer spring and an Elite Hammer gives me occasional light strikes with certain ammo.

That said, the trigger in the 92 with the 12lb hammer spring is simply amazing!

It is hard to imagine that the 92 could be even better. I got to try out mine at the LGS and it is unbelievably smooth and light. Reset is UNREAL BTW. I plan to carry mine though, so 13lb it is.

[JTQ]

It is hard to imagine that the 92 could be even better. I got to try out mine at the LGS and it is unbelievably smooth and light. Reset is UNREAL BTW. I plan to carry mine though, so 13lb it is.
If you were choosing an OWB holster for your Beretta 92, from a maker such as, lets say, 5 Shot Leather, what would it look like?;)

[John Ralston]

If you were choosing an OWB holster for your Beretta 92, from a maker such as, lets say, 5 Shot Leather, what would it look like?;)

Concealment or range type rig? Concealment would depend on body type and carry position. For range use, they all work, but the Speed Scabbard is the bomb...it is REALLY fast.

[GyroF-16]

If you were choosing an OWB holster for your Beretta 92, from a maker such as, lets say, 5 Shot Leather, what would it look like?;)

I’d recommend JM Custom Kydex
https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/

He’s made 3 holsters for me - OWB for LTT Elite, OWB for 9w Compact, and IWB for the Compact. All excellent quality, and reasonably priced.

[John Ralston]

I’d recommend JM Custom Kydex
https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/

He’s made 3 holsters for me - OWB for LTT Elite, OWB for 9w Compact, and IWB for the Compact. All excellent quality, and reasonably priced.

Did I do something to upset you?

[GyroF-16]

Did I do something to upset you?

Um, no.

If you are the maker for 5Shot leather, I guess I inadvertently jumped into an inquiry meant only for you.

I was just giving an honest recommendation.

I genuinely apologize if I stepped in where I shouldn’t have and caused offense.

[John Ralston]

Um, no.

If you are the maker for 5Shot leather, I guess I inadvertently jumped into an inquiry meant only for you.

I was just giving an honest recommendation.

I genuinely apologize if I stepped in where I shouldn’t have and caused offense.

I am 5 Shot Leather, but I was just checking to make sure there wasn't some issue I needed to correct. :cool:

Back to the topic...

[JTQ]

I am 5 Shot Leather, ...

Yes, I was kind of hoping to see some pretty pictures of a Beretta is some 5 Shot Leather.

[medmo]

That said, the trigger in the 92 with the 12lb hammer spring is simply amazing!

The 12lb spring combined with a TJIAB (spurless hammer) plus a performance trigger bar makes it “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing! Thank you very much. No problems with my 92A1.

I’ve been running the 11lb spring in my Px4 CC right after they were available with a spurless hammer. No problems and no change on primer indents. Also with a TJIAB and also “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing. I’d figure the spurless hammer would be the lightest hammer.

[LangdonTactical]

The 12lb spring combined with a TJIAB (spurless hammer) plus a performance trigger bar makes it “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing! Thank you very much. No problems with my 92A1.

I’ve been running the 11lb spring in my Px4 CC right after they were available with a spurless hammer. No problems and no change on primer indents. Also with a TJIAB and also “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing. I’d figure the spurless hammer would be the lightest hammer.

OK, a question for the PX4 fans out there. I have a crap ton of rounds through several different PX4s with the 11 pound CS hammer spring in them. I have had no issues with it, ever. Nor have I heard of any.

This makes me think we could push it a little more and do a 10-pound hammer spring for the PX4 and really make the DA unbelievable.

Who would be interested in giving that a try?

It would be pretty easy to have a batch made.

[revchuck38]

LangdonTactical - I'd be in for three assuming you determine that it works. I'd be more concerned with it making the SA too light.

[David S.]

in for 2

[Shawnw]

In for 1. Also, that new trigger bar you mentioned, I’ll take one of those too.

[gato naranja]

I'd be more concerned with it making the SA too light.
A Compact or full size might take it, but I know the SA would be uncontrollable for me in my pet SC as it sits right now- the 12# hammer spring in it is hairy enough.

[357carbine]

I'll try a couple. Should be sweet in a compact that I made DAO.

[SeriousStudent]

In for four.

[AdioSS]

I betcha they’d run in my Type C slide PX4s that have a 1 piece firing pin.

[beenalongtime]

OK, a question for the PX4 fans out there. I have a crap ton of rounds through several different PX4s with the 11 pound CS hammer spring in them. I have had no issues with it, ever. Nor have I heard of any.

This makes me think we could push it a little more and do a 10-pound hammer spring for the PX4 and really make the DA unbelievable.

Who would be interested in giving that a try?

It would be pretty easy to have a batch made.

When you say give it a try, are you asking for testers, or trying to assess how many to order for customers?

With ranges closed, I have no access to test currently, but would most likely by a few for the range guns.
Thanks

[Bobert1035]

EL - I'm in for 2!

[LangdonTactical]

OK, I went ahead and ordered a small batch of 10lb hammer springs.

Single action should not be dramatically affected by the hammer spring. It will have some effect for sure, but the sear spring and the hammer sear hooks play a much bigger factor. Meaning I can make the SA heavier without effecting the DA.

[medmo]

OK, I went ahead and ordered a small batch of 10lb hammer springs.

Single action should not be dramatically affected by the hammer spring. It will have some effect for sure, but the sear spring and the hammer sear hooks play a much bigger factor. Meaning I can make the SA heavier without effecting the DA.

I’m in for 2.

The DA on my CC with a TJIAB and 11# spring is incredibly freakin sweet but I’m down with potentially gaining more incredible freakin sweetness.

[KC8]

[QUOTE=medmo;997837]The 12lb spring combined with a TJIAB (spurless hammer) plus a performance trigger bar makes it “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing! Thank you very much. No problems with my 92A1.

Can I ask if you changed the stock recoil spring for your 92A1? Thanks.

[medmo]

[QUOTE=medmo;997837]The 12lb spring combined with a TJIAB (spurless hammer) plus a performance trigger bar makes it “holy crap”, freakin unbelievably amazing! Thank you very much. No problems with my 92A1.

Can I ask if you changed the stock recoil spring for your 92A1? Thanks.

Yes, when I swapped to the steel WC recoil spring guide.

[sheepdog]

OK, a question for the PX4 fans out there. I have a crap ton of rounds through several different PX4s with the 11 pound CS hammer spring in them. I have had no issues with it, ever. Nor have I heard of any.

This makes me think we could push it a little more and do a 10-pound hammer spring for the PX4 and really make the DA unbelievable.

Who would be interested in giving that a try?

It would be pretty easy to have a batch made.

Absolutely

[Outlier]

I would be in for 2 as well.

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

The Px4's my competition gun, so bring on the bouncy steel! The more speedy upgrades for the Px4, the better!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The Px4's my competition gun, so bring on the bouncy steel! The more speedy upgrades for the Px4, the better!

Interesting. What model of PX4 do you use for competition? What modifications does it have?

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

Oh, it's all kinds of a hot mess.

52429

Top-model LTT Px4CC
11# hammer spring
Stainless Steel Guide Rods's...stainless steel guide rod. and recoil spring
92-style decocker on left side
Olight PL-MINI 2, when allowed. Have a Werkz OWB holster made for it, a LightTuck is on the way for the same config
Springer +4 mag extensions on NP3 mags
MOS slide milling, AP Acro on Acro-to-MOS adapter plate (hole was drilled in the plate for the trigger pull indicator)
And some custom stippling, on the takedown lever areas and under the trigger guard too

Regrets that I have:
**Spent waaaaay too much on mods, and not enough on training. Only ~3300 rounds between lessons/range time/outlaw matches/steel challenges over the year I've owned it, and very few of those rounds at all with the Acro on, such that I still haven't gotten acclimated to working with the red dot only without cowitness from irons.

*I can take off the Acro and use the nice Ameriglos, but they're carry-short, so I can't use both of them at the same time like I'd really prefer. Very much looking forward to taller sights someday.

*Should have gotten the full-size Carry. I've practiced my grip, but I need more weight to assist my tiny wrists!

*Also on that note, alas, I got into the game far too late to see extended barrels readily available. Unless someone around here's willing to let go of one? Every 0.8 inches counts!

*Thinking about Beretta +3 mag extensions instead of the Springers, they seem more aesthetically pleasing!

Additional thoughts:
I hear the Px4 Compact's 9mm and .40 barrels and magazines are interchangeable, and the extractor doesn't need to be replaced since it's the same part? I kind of want to try that, with a DPM recoil spring assembly maybe or a factory .40 one.
Anyone ever look into getting a custom rechambering done for a 9mm barrel into 357 SIG? (with a test barrel, of course.) I understand the pressures are much higher with that caliber and the barrel might not last very long. Do Compact barrels have a different thickness than fullsize barrels in general? I saw a big difference in 9mm versions when I met another Px4 owner the other month.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

...Additional thoughts:
I hear the Px4 Compact's 9mm and .40 barrels and magazines are interchangeable, and the extractor doesn't need to be replaced since it's the same part? I kind of want to try that, with a DPM recoil spring assembly maybe or a factory .40 one....
...Do Compact barrels have a different thickness than fullsize barrels in general? I saw a big difference in 9mm versions when I met another Px4 owner the other month.

That is an impressive pistol!

The slide of a 9mm will not house a .40 at the breech face. Yes, the extractors are the same, but that is not enough. Additionally, the slide of a .40 is more reinforced- https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page5 post 49

The barrel of a Compact is thicker than that of a full size. Though, I have never heard of a full size 9mm barrel cracking, it is thinner in a few places. It also does not need a flange to stop slide movement- https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 post 36.

So far, I have not heard of anyone trying to convert to .357 Sig, though the idea has been thrown around.

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

That is an impressive pistol!

The slide of a 9mm will not house a .40 at the breech face. Yes, the extractors are the same, but that is not enough. Additionally, the slide of a .40 is more reinforced- https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page5 post 49

The barrel of a Compact is thicker than that of a full size. Though, I have never heard of a full size 9mm barrel cracking, it is thinner in a few places. It also does not need a flange to stop slide movement- https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29665-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Parts-What-does-each-part-do-and-how/page4 post 36.

So far, I have not heard of anyone trying to convert to .357 Sig, though the idea has been thrown around.

Excellent photo thread! Looks like the best practice to switch to .40 would be a slide with the larger breech face and without the extra milling then. At that point...better to pick up a whole new Compact in that caliber!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

... At that point...better to pick up a whole new Compact in that caliber!

It would also be less expensive to get a whole new pistol then to attempt to compile the top side parts.

[Bobert1035]

I'd like to ask a hopefully relevant question regarding hammer springs:

Is there any effect on recoil when dropping weight on the hammer spring, negative or otherwise? I don't put nearly the amount of rounds through my PX4 or 92, but I'm curious if anyone has noticed something like this. I may be misunderstanding the operation, but isn't part of the job of the hammer spring to slow the slide down upon firing?


-rob

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I'd like to ask a hopefully relevant question regarding hammer springs:

Is there any effect on recoil when dropping weight on the hammer spring, negative or otherwise? I don't put nearly the amount of rounds through my PX4 or 92, but I'm curious if anyone has noticed something like this. I may be misunderstanding the operation, but isn't part of the job of the hammer spring to slow the slide down upon firing?


-rob

Your understanding of the functions is correct. Though it might not be a predetermined function, it is calculated in. When changing from a strong, stock hammer spring to a lighter one of the different springs offered, you can feel a difference when you rack the slide starting with the hammer down.

However, in shooting a bunch of rounds through PX4s of different types, I have not noticed any difference in felt recoil or cycling speed.
This would mean that the amount of difference the hammer spring weight makes is so negligible that it is not felt in actual recoil.

A lighter hammer spring will help your internal parts to last longer, though.

[DLWinner]

I put the 11lb in my px4 CC. It made the trigger almost too light in SA and not as predictable. I put a 12lb in it and I seem to shoot it better.

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

Looks like LTT put the #10 spring up on the web store!

[revchuck38]

Ordered three as promised. Two of them will go in my training/practice gun and my DAO version, the third will go in my carry gun if/when the other two prove reliable.

[medmo]

Looks like LTT put the #10 spring up on the web store!

Thanks for the heads up! On my way to the LTT interweb site now to get a couple heading my way.

[LangdonTactical]

Thanks for the heads up! On my way to the LTT interweb site now to get a couple heading my way.

Yes, The 10 lb spring is up on the website as is the new OP trigger bar for the PX4!

[medmo]

Yes, The 10 lb spring is up on the website as is the new OP trigger bar for the PX4!

Sweet! Thanks! I’ve got one on the way. Looking forward to giving it a test drive.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Does anyone have any test results with round counts and performance for the new 10# hammer spring in a PX4?

[NukeRef]

Does anyone have any test results with round counts and performance for the new 10# hammer spring in a PX4?

I finally got my hands on a PX4 Compact through an online dealer. Not a GEL, so the first thing I did was go to LTT to replace those "wings" with Carry Levers. While I was on the site, I saw that a 10# spring was available, so I included one in my order. I went to the range and put 200 rounds through my new Beretta with the 10# spring. NO failures. I used the following ammo:

Federal American Eagle 124 gr. FMJ; 25 rds.
Federal Syntech 124 gr. TSJ; 15 rds.
Remington UMC 147 gr. FMJ; 20 rds.
Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ; 50 rds.
CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr. FMJ; 45 rds.
CCI/Speer Training 115 gr. FMJ; 45 rds.

My experience with the factory spring was dry-fire only while I waited for a chance to get to the range. My parts from Langdon got here first, so in they went!

[revchuck38]

Does anyone have any test results with round counts and performance for the new 10# hammer spring in a PX4?

Don't know how I missed this. I put one in my PX4 D and ran about 100 rounds of my handloads (CCI 500 primers) with no issues. Out of 50 rounds of Winchester NATO-spec hardball, one required a second strike to fire. If I were to stick with standard commercial ammo or handloads with standard small pistol primers, I'd happily leave it in there. My current situation requires using small rifle primers for my next batch of 9x19 handloads, so I'll be going back to heavier hammer springs.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Don't know how I missed this. I put one in my PX4 D and ran about 100 rounds of my handloads (CCI 500 primers) with no issues. Out of 50 rounds of Winchester NATO-spec hardball, one required a second strike to fire. If I were to stick with standard commercial ammo or handloads with standard small pistol primers, I'd happily leave it in there. My current situation requires using small rifle primers for my next batch of 9x19 handloads, so I'll be going back to heavier hammer springs.

Interestingly enough, yesterday we removed the 11# spring from our PX4 SubCompact. After 14,350 rounds of good ignition with different brands of ammo it started getting light strikes frequently with Winchester white box. We took the same lot of ammo and fired hundreds through our PX4 Compact with an old D spring and my shooting partner's PX4 full size with an old D spring and all ammo ignited just fine... no light strikes.

We put the earlier D spring back in the SubCompact with 500 rounds on it and will start testing tomorrow.

I have 16,089 rounds on the 11# spring in my PX4 .45 range pistol with no light strikes on a variety of ammo, including Winchester white box.

[medmo]

Interestingly enough, yesterday we removed the 11# spring from our PX4 SubCompact. After 14,350 rounds of good ignition with different brands of ammo it started getting light strikes frequently with Winchester white box. We took the same lot of ammo and fired hundreds through our PX4 Compact with an old D spring and my shooting partner's PX4 full size with an old D spring and all ammo ignited just fine... no light strikes.

We put the earlier D spring back in the SubCompact with 500 rounds on it and will start testing tomorrow.

I have 16,089 rounds on the 11# spring in my PX4 .45 range pistol with no light strikes on a variety of ammo, including Winchester white box.

It would be interesting to see the results of testing the 11# spring after a detailed strip and clean. Agree?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

It would be interesting to see the results of testing the 11# spring after a detailed strip and clean. Agree?

I agree. In this case it had a 100% disassembly for detailed cleaning 3,050 rounds ago. After the next detailed cleaning we could try putting the 11# spring back in. However, if after only 3,000 rounds it would need a re-cleaning to run that spring it would become impractical for us to have to clean more frequently to keep the spring working.

[NukeRef]

Does anyone have any test results with round counts and performance for the new 10# hammer spring in a PX4?

Storm Tracker, are you still keeping track?

I put another 100 rounds through my PX4 Compact today without a burp.

Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ; 50 rds.
CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr. FMJ; 45 rds.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Storm Tracker, are you still keeping track?

I put another 100 rounds through my PX4 Compact today without a burp.

Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ; 50 rds.
CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr. FMJ; 45 rds.

Yes I am, thanks! That is a good report.

I have been testing the 11# spring meanwhile. I have a 10# spring, but am awaiting more positive reports like yours.

So far, in testing the 11# spring I have the following results:

In my PX4 Storm 9, full size I have 1,101 rounds with no light strikes, using Federal Champion 115 grn FMJs.

In my SubCompact PX4 9 I had to remove the 11# spring after 14,350 rounds, as it was getting frequent light strikes. When we switched it back to the old D spring the light strikes stopped. All brands of ammo were used throughout this ammo shortage.

I have 22,389 rounds on the 11# spring in my PX4 .45 with no light strikes. I have been using various brands, S&B FMJ, PMC FMJ and Federal Champion hard ball & Winchester white box FMJ, all 230 grn.

This references to the 10# spring, in that, if the 11# is getting light strikes.... I am awaiting more positive reports before trying the 10# spring.

[Greg Bell]

Your killing me langdon. I just ordered a rdo slide tonight!

[NukeRef]

Yes I am, thanks! That is a good report. <snip>


This references to the 10# spring, in that, if the 11# is getting light strikes.... I am awaiting more positive reports before trying the 10# spring.

For what it's worth, the 10# hammer spring is the only change I have made (other than the carry decocker levers), still running the stock PX4 Compact hammer. No spurless, no match grade, no lightweight skeletonized ... just pure stock weight. I'm sure that's part of the equation.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

For what it's worth, the 10# hammer spring is the only change I have made (other than the carry decocker levers), still running the stock PX4 Compact hammer. No spurless, no match grade, no lightweight skeletonized ... just pure stock weight. I'm sure that's part of the equation.

In my range pistols I have the same setup: only Carry levers, low profile slide catch and hammer spring change. So, I am running the same stock hammer, also.

[AdioSS]

For what it's worth, the 10# hammer spring is the only change I have made (other than the carry decocker levers), still running the stock PX4 Compact hammer. No spurless, no match grade, no lightweight skeletonized ... just pure stock weight. I'm sure that's part of the equation.

Well, the stock PX4 hammer is already a lightweight one. Plus, it has the reinforced part in the middle that provides a bunch of strength.

[NukeRef]

I put yet another 100 rounds through my PX4 Compact with the 10# hammer spring today, once again without a burp.

Federal Syntech 150 gr. TSJ; 50 rds.
CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr. FMJ; 50 rds.