Optics plan critique request and Aimpoint magnifiers questions

[Crow Hunter]

I have this idea floating in my head that I would like to get T2/H2 Aimpoints on my Primary/backup 6920 and my Larue Predatar .308 along with a PA micro red dot on my M&P 15-22.

Then in would like to get an Aimpoint (or other) magnifier and place it in an Aimpoint Twist mount and then get twist mount bases and put them on all 3 rifles so that I would be able to swap out and place the magnifier on each of the rifles as needed/wanted.

Has anyone else done this?

Stupid idea?

Also, any feed back on the Aimpoint 6x magnifiers? Worth it over the 3X-C or other brands?

I have been down the Aimpoint M4s, LPV (1-4, and 2-7) and the Trijicon TA33 routes and I was not satisfied with those from a weight/performance standpoint. I think that having the lightweight performance of the red dot (T2/H2) with the option to add magnification if I need/want it (3X or 6X) but otherwise leave the rifle lightweight is the direction I am really wanting to go.

[Gray222]

Not a fan of magnification for RDS in this method. I ran one for a while (3.5x) and it wasn't great.

A good LPV does the what this setup can and then some.

[ASH556]

karmapolice is currently doing what you’re talking about with the multiple base twist mount Aimpoint 3x thing, albeit with M4S’s up front. He really likes it. Personally, I don’t care for it. I find the magnifier to have very narrow FOV “like looking through a straw,” and very short eye relief. That said, I do like the concept.

Me personally, I’m at the place of having an M2 on my 10.3” “inside” gun and TA11 ACOGs on my 14.5” outside guns. I’ve come to prefer simplicity and durability over theoretically good bells and whistles on LPV’s. It’s worth noting that both he and I have tried and moved away from LPV’s by Nightforce, Leupold, and Trijicon to where we are now. It’s ultimately about prioritizing the compromise. The Aimpoint + mag is good if you’re primarily doing close range shooting on multiple and/or moving targets with some ability for longer range target ID. The ACOG makes a better 50yd + optic with great glass, bdc for quick holds, and good FOV and eye relief. The trade off is that searching a house with a 3.5x optic takes a lot of practice and is probably still not as quick or easy as an Aimpoint. You could also use offset irons to close the performance gap at close ranges.

[Clusterfrack]

Parallax is pretty bad with Aimpoint and 3x magnifier...

[Crow Hunter]

Not a fan of magnification for RDS in this method. I ran one for a while (3.5x) and it wasn't great.

A good LPV does the what this setup can and then some.

I like the LPV in concept but my experience with them has given me the opinion the juice isn't worth the squeeze for my usage. The weight is the biggest downside followed by the generally odd fish eye feeling I get when moving.

My only experience though has been a Trijicon TA24 1-4 and a Leupold VX2 2-7.

[Crow Hunter]

karmapolice is currently doing what you’re talking about with the multiple base twist mount Aimpoint 3x thing, albeit with M4S’s up front. He really likes it. Personally, I don’t care for it. I find the magnifier to have very narrow FOV “like looking through a straw,” and very short eye relief. That said, I do like the concept.

Me personally, I’m at the place of having an M2 on my 10.3” “inside” gun and TA11 ACOGs on my 14.5” outside guns. I’ve come to prefer simplicity and durability over theoretically good bells and whistles on LPV’s. It’s worth noting that both he and I have tried and moved away from LPV’s by Nightforce, Leupold, and Trijicon to where we are now. It’s ultimately about prioritizing the compromise. The Aimpoint + mag is good if you’re primarily doing close range shooting on multiple and/or moving targets with some ability for longer range target ID. The ACOG makes a better 50yd + optic with great glass, bdc for quick holds, and good FOV and eye relief. The trade off is that searching a house with a 3.5x optic takes a lot of practice and is probably still not as quick or easy as an Aimpoint. You could also use offset irons to close the performance gap at close ranges.

Thank you!

I would be primarily close range shooting and occasionally shooting at longer ranges. I don't do 3 gun or anything. These rifles are primarily defensive in nature. I have pretty much given up on the idea of a "do all" rifle and the thought of using AR type rifles for other shooting uses. A good bolt action rifle has significant advantages in weight/accuracy/ease of use/cost/caliber availability for most of my hunting uses.

I actually have a TA33 that I got in yesterday and I didn't even bother to mount it on a rifle. I can't really see the BDC tree well with my right eye. It is sort of fuzzy/almost invisible. The horseshoe is also "bent" on the bottom right "leg". I had a case of central serous retinopathy several years ago and I guess it has caused permanent damage on how I see certain things. :mad: My left eye sees it fine, but it isn't my shooting eye. I don't notice this with a standard duplex crosshair. Of course all those scopes have diopter adjustments so that might be what is correcting the ghosting/bending.

I had a Larue FTS 3X Aimpoint magnifier several years ago when I had my Aimpoint M4s and I didn't care for it then mostly due to the weight and the floppy/off balanced nature of having it flipped to the side. But I read the newer ones have a diopter adjustment and I don't care for a FTS mount, I would rather just mount it and remove it so that is why I was thinking the twist mount since it seems to be fairly quick on/off but I am open to other options.

I probably should just go with a T2 or H2 and keep a small pair of pocket binos/monoculars in my "kit".

Sucks getting old.

[Crow Hunter]

Parallax is pretty bad with Aimpoint and 3x magnifier...

At just close range or like out to infinity?

Where are they optically aligned for?

Most "normal" scopes are set for 100 ish yards with rimfires at 50/60 yards.

I would have thought they would be set similar to "normal" scopes and have minimal parallax out past 100 yards.

[Gray222]

I like the LPV in concept but my experience with them has given me the opinion the juice isn't worth the squeeze for my usage. The weight is the biggest downside followed by the generally odd fish eye feeling I get when moving.

My only experience though has been a Trijicon TA24 1-4 and a Leupold VX2 2-7.

Yeah, that's probably why, those aren't awesome optics. Lower middle of the road maybe, not great or awesome.

Find someone locally who has a decent 1-6 or 1-8, vortex, uso, higher end leupold, NF, etc. Something that starts in the area of $1500 retail. The difference is amazing.

While there is a time and place for an RDS, anything past 75 yards you need the ability to PID.

[Clusterfrack]

At just close range or like out to infinity?

Where are they optically aligned for?

Most "normal" scopes are set for 100 ish yards with rimfires at 50/60 yards.

I would have thought they would be set similar to "normal" scopes and have minimal parallax out past 100 yards.

I haven’t spent a lot of time with this setup but my experience is that parallax is worse at further distances. You need to center the dot very carefully or risk a big POI shift, and that’s harder than you’d think with a 3x mag.

The Eotechs seem to have less parallax with a magnifier than other red dots, and the magnifier doesn’t affect the size of the dot. If I was going to use a 1x / 3x setup, I would pick an EXPS 3.

But, it’s surprising how far you can go with a simple 1x.

[CS Tactical]

I like the LPV in concept but my experience with them has given me the opinion the juice isn't worth the squeeze for my usage. The weight is the biggest downside followed by the generally odd fish eye feeling I get when moving.

My only experience though has been a Trijicon TA24 1-4 and a Leupold VX2 2-7.


And this is why you need a quality LPV...

[Wake27]

I used an EXPS-3 for a while and paired it with a G33 every now and then. I ditched those to try an LPV since I never really had and as much as I loved the EOTech, I think I prefer my Steiner P4. I can’t even imagine what a really good LPV would be like. My rifle and usage is similar to yours. I almost always shoot it at 25 or closer and maybe I’m a tad bit slower, but it’s very minimal. Shooting 100-600 though, that was a huge difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Here’s a very thorough study of parallax in RDS.
https://www.greeneyetactical.com/2017/07/27/comparative-study-of-red-dot-sight-parallax/

[navyman8903]

So I see what you're trying to do and admittedly I'm going down a similar path with working out what optics/dots to use with what setups. Recently these guys talked me into a NF NX8 for my MR556......

So, I see you like a dot and not a lot going on with your optical piece with what you're trying to go for. I'm going to make a suggestion and some people won't like it at first because there's lots of glass snobs here, I'm one of them honestly. But I don't have S&B money. So an optic I got to run extensively recently and was eyeballing for my truck guns which I think will fit what you're trying to do, is the Steiner P4Xi. The glass is very clear, it has a nice and tiny red dot, and the reticle isn't busy. Very good for CQC work, and I was very impressed with what I could see out to range with the clarity on the 4x setting. You zero it at 4x, then shoot the lights out with it. There are other more expensive options out there, and you can get deep in the weeds on this one for sure. There's nightforce, trij, vortex, leupold, khales.....the list goes on. But the reason I'm recommending the Steiner is, you can get into one around $500-580 shipped to you, you get a decent mount, and you're into a very good optic for not that much money.

People will say there's better stuff out there than the P4Xi, and there is, but not for that money. You'll hear people tell you to get another optic, but it's going to be for hundreds of dollars more. So you get that, slap it on there, and run it. Gives you the feel of the aimpoint, with a much better field of view, not to much shit on top of your gun, and you can reach out to about 300-500m with out too much difficulty. If you don't like it, you're not out money, it's a very well reviewed and respected optic, and flipping it will be easy. I scoffed at it initially, but it's now my go to 1-4x. Because it's easy mode, if you get the 5202 you get the throw lever and it's only needing a nice mount. I will say the picture of the reticle don't do it justice. It makes it look busier than it actually is. Especially with the red dot on.


But be careful if you go this route. You'll want variable powers for anything you can stick them on. Especially with how awesome they're getting now a days. It's a buyer's market.

[rob_s]

I’ve considered doing what you suggest, and if I ever get interested in dumping money into ARs again I probably will.

While I’m passively interested in LPV optics, they don’t really apply to the way most people shoot these guns, and certainly not he way I do or did. I think some of the craze plays into the fact that everybody wants to be a sniper. But then I got on the 2p0 yard public range and find over half the ARs to be wearing LPVs cranked up to max magnification and shooting larger groups than I’m shooting with a legacy Aimpoint with 4 Mora dot.

There also ain’t no free lunch. The LPV weighs more, costs more, takes up more room *may* be less durable, has more moving parts, and will like,y be obsolete in 6 months as they come out with a moar better version.

For me, doing what you suggest acknowledges the fact that I’m not a sniper, and the fact that I only “need” magnification in limited circumstances where all of the shortcomings listed above don’t really matter or are at least accounted for. My plan was to buy one magnifier, leave it attached to one gun sitting in the safe (if to any gun at all) and have a combination of micro and 30mm Aimpoint on all of the guns set up with the ability to take the magnifier if I ever want to attach it.

[navyman8903]

I’ve considered doing what you suggest, and if I ever get interested in dumping money into ARs again I probably will.

While I’m passively interested in LPV optics, they don’t really apply to the way most people shoot these guns, and certainly not he way I do or did. I think some of the craze plays into the fact that everybody wants to be a sniper. But then I got on the 2p0 yard public range and find over half the ARs to be wearing LPVs cranked up to max magnification and shooting larger groups than I’m shooting with a legacy Aimpoint with 4 Mora dot.

There also ain’t no free lunch. The LPV weighs more, costs more, takes up more room *may* be less durable, has more moving parts, and will like,y be obsolete in 6 months as they come out with a moar better version.

For me, doing what you suggest acknowledges the fact that I’m not a sniper, and the fact that I only “need” magnification in limited circumstances where all of the shortcomings listed above don’t really matter or are at least accounted for. My plan was to buy one magnifier, leave it attached to one gun sitting in the safe (if to any gun at all) and have a combination of micro and 30mm Aimpoint on all of the guns set up with the ability to take the magnifier if I ever want to attach it.

That's fair. I'm stationed in FL now in Mayport. If you want to do a meet up at a range some time. My wife and I are looking for good ones. FL isn't as big as TX is so we don't mind driving. I go on deployment in FEB. I'm about to pick up the Steiner P4Xi for one of my builds underway if you want to try it out once I get it. I'll be back next fall and will be back for some time. Just let me know. I'll keep you in the loop so you can try it out.

I like the VPO's for the same reason your kind of highlighting. I can hit out that distance with the dot and shoot tighter than the average guy. But sometimes I'm lazy or really want to see what I'm shooting at so I can hit exactly where I want to so I dial it up to 4. You're not wrong in your assessment of the VPO's though. I'm also good to go with the Steiner P4Xi for my 1-4x because of the cost, clarity, and super easy reticle/dot. I'm also not rich so I can't afford to buy a bunch of different optics either. So I see what you're doing with the magnifier on your existing rigs.

Merica.

Hit me up sometime if you want to meet up and shoot.