9mm vs 22lr AR

[ASH556]

I’m interested in getting either a 9mm or 22lr AR.
Purposes:
-Training new shooters/kids
-Practice on steel and/or situations where rifle may not be allowed (bays at local range)
-Fun

I have a 9mm can (sitting unused) and a 22 can, so would like to be able to run either suppressed.
If 9mm, I’d like to go short AR pistol I think.
If 22lr, I think I want an M&P 15-22. Empty mag bolt lock, same manual of arms as AR. Would also be open to AR pistol for smaller size, handling, etc. not sure about mags, bolt lock etc.

So, 9mm or 22 and what specific manufacturers?

Thanks!

[Edster]

I only have the M&P 15-22 and can't really compare it to a 9mm.

It lets me do some carbine manipulation practice cheaply at a pistol range.

The basics of manipulation are the same: safety, mag release, charging handle. The mags have an extension that prevents them seating all the way in some mag holders but it's good enough for practice.

It's not exactly the same, though. The differences in weight, handling, recoil, and blast are noticeable. It does feel toy-like compared to the .223/5.56 counterparts. It also gets a bit jammy when dirty -- probably ok for practicing basic malfunction clearance.

I had some hopes it might help me get some family members more familiar with the AR. That hasn't really happened. They will gladly rock a Ruger Mark III, though -- go figure.

Even without the AR-simulator qualities, it's a really, really fun little rifle to shoot. Adding a Primary Arms red dot made it even more so.

[nalesq]

I have a Spike’s Tactical dedicated .22LR upper (which weighs essentially the same as a 5.56mm upper) and a Colt 9mm carbine, and have used both extensively for my own training and the training of others. If I could only have one, it would be the .22LR.

The main advantage of the 9mm carbine is that it allows you to practice recoil management (blowback 9mm has, to my perception, a somewhat more disruptive recoil impulse than direct impingement gas 5.56mm), which in my opinion doesn’t really matter that much except for practicing NSR-style rapid fire at CQB distances. For basic rifle marksmanship type stuff, snap shooting, etc., the .22LR is the far better value.

Also, with a silencer, the .22LR rifle can be very comfortable to shoot all day long without earpro. The 9mm, not quite so much.


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[HCM]

I have both and have used Colt SMGs live fire and more extensively as SIMS guns.

M&P 15-22 all day long. In fact buy two, one for you and one for your son.

For training kids, the reduced weight of the 15-22 is an advantage.

I bought my Colt 9mm during a time when I was using colt SMGs with SIMS regularly and the only range less than an hour away was a 25 yard indoor range limited to pistol caliber long guns and .22.

Besides the obvious ammo cost disparity, the 9mm AR functions direct blowback rather than the rotating bolt DI system ARs were designed around. As a result 9mm AR’s have more felt recoil than .223 and the basically beat them selves to death quicker than any other AR variant.

The primary allure of a 9mm AR is the ability to shoot steel safely at closer ranges than .223 or if you get free 9mm...

I have a dedicated CMMG .22 LR upper I bought just before S &W released the M&P 15-22. It’s ok but the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. When I hit the range the 15-22 goes with me.

[Wake27]

No experience with a PCC but I love my 15-22. First gun I ever bought and I enjoy it more every time I shoot it. The cons Edster mentioned are what make it great for training new shooters, especially women and kids. My wife loves that thing and aside from weight and recoil, it feels the same. If those two are important to you, get a PCC. If not, the 15-22 is a great gun. Like all .22s it can be a bit picky with ammo, but the only time I’ve ever had issues was running some of the cheaper stuff like golden saber and hurricane (I think those are the names). Federal auto match, Aguila, CCI, and a few others that I don’t remember have all run well for me, even dirty. It’s also significantly cheaper to buy and feed which is never a bad thing.


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[Toonces]

I’m interested in getting either a 9mm or 22lr AR.
Purposes:
-Training new shooters/kids
-Practice on steel and/or situations where rifle may not be allowed (bays at local range)
-Fun


With those criteria, M&P 15-22 would be my pick. They seem to work, and have what is regarded as the best .22 AR mag in the business. The two I have direct experience with function well with a wide variety of ammo, and can easily go through 500 rounds without a malfunction that isn't rimfire priming related.

I've had two 9mm ARs (Rock River and Colt), and happily sold both. After the initial newness wore off, they were never grabbed as a fun gun. They recoil weird compared to DI 5.56 They are not what I would want to use for introducing people to shooting.

The only way I would go with a .22 upper over the M&P 15-22 is if the existing AR lower is a registered SBR. It's going to be more expensive than the 15-22, and likely won't be as trouble free. I haven't looked lately, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could SBR a 15-22 for roughly equal money to a normal .22 upper. Regardless, I would still pick a .22 upper over a 9mm.I hope to never own another AR/upper in 9mm, but I'm weak and a 4.5" barrel + forend that could cover my Octane would be tempting.

[Crow Hunter]

A very timely thread for me.

I had it in my mind that I was really wanting to get a Colt 9mm AR. I was literally thinking about starting a thread asking about it last night. I was a little hesitant about getting one because it didn't really "serve a purpose" other than being a toy other than I was thinking that it might be something good for training where I couldn't really shoot a 5.56 safely.

Looks like I would be better of with sticking with my M&P15-22 instead, which I really enjoy owning/shooting.

[ASH556]

So this happened on the way home. Thanks guys!

22507

[jandbj]

15/22 SBR with a can goes on every range trip.
22602

Get the mag loader from McFadden machine too.

Also just came across a deal on a Colt 9mm upper... may go on a dedicated CMMG 9mm pistol lower (will get a KAK brace) and/or share time with a mag block on the other SBR AR too.

P.S. If that 15/22 has the new style m-lok forend and you'd prefer quad rail or want to swap it out for something else... please let me know. I'd love to get an M-lok on mine.

[John Hearne]

I have both. The 15-22 is a trainer that offer 85% of the value of the 5.56. It's great for manipulation and snap shot training. I have a 9mm AR because it will reliably knock over steel without tearing it up. It also allows me to shoot local IPDA matches with a carbine surrogate.

[luckyman]

Searching around, this thread seemed to be the closest applicable for my question....

If I'm looking for a pure "AR cheap practice / more practice options" alternative, is something like a Tippmann rimfire currently the best bet? I was assuming the answer would be "PCC', but it seems like rimfires are getting the most love. Not sure if I understand the tradeoffs, or if any recent advancements have changed that picture. And I'm also ASSuming that a Tippmann would be closer in feel to a regular AR than the S&W rimfire. I know I said "cheap practice" but I'm perfectly OK conveniently ignoring the purchase cost of said practice rifle in this equation :D

[GJM]

Searching around, this thread seemed to be the closest applicable for my question....

If I'm looking for a pure "AR cheap practice / more practice options" alternative, is something like a Tippmann rimfire currently the best bet? I was assuming the answer would be "PCC', but it seems like rimfires are getting the most love. Not sure if I understand the tradeoffs, or if any recent advancements have changed that picture. And I'm also ASSuming that a Tippmann would be closer in feel to a regular AR than the S&W rimfire. I know I said "cheap practice" but I'm perfectly OK conveniently ignoring the purchase cost of said practice rifle in this equation :D

I have the M&P and Tippmann, and far prefer the Tippmann. If 9mm ammo grew on a tree in my backyard, I would shoot a 9mm PCC, but it doesn't. My favorite 9 mm PCC is one built by Aaron Brekke.

79299

[Bergeron]

What's that joke- "why not get both?"

I've had a dedicated .22lr AR for a decade-plus, and I'm just waiting on my gunsmith's availability to have him stitch together a 9mm AR.

The rimfire gun is built off standard upper-lower-everything else, and I use a CMMG conversion, a Better-Mag adapter, and M&P22 magazines. While it only got that way with the magazines recently, I really like the LRBHO and the ability to manually lock the action open. The only real downside to this thing is that there's not really a great dry-fire option. I am curious to see if a Mantis BlackBeard could be modified to work with the Better-Mag adapter.

I haven't tried the gun out in Steel Challenge yet, but I hope to do so before the end of the year. Another potential downside might be that it's a substantial and heavy gun for a brand-new shooter, but I wanted a one-to-one with a 5.56 gun, so that drove me.

I'm hoping to use the 9mm in PCC matches. Level I USPSA is more accessible to me and my lifestyle now than it has been in quite some time, and I like the idea of growing both my pistol and long gun skills at the same matches.

In general, I think that new shooters are more put off by noise than by recoil, so I'm curious to see how the 9mm AR gets received. It'll suffer like my rimfire in being a full-size 16" gun, but it'll have to do, as braced or SBR'd gun would be far off into my own personal future.

[Oldherkpilot]

I bought a.15-22 about 15 minutes after somebody told me I could swap the trigger. I put a Holosun 510 on it with the same reticle as my Eotech. The only thing it lacks is an ambi safety, which is no longer available. I really like my .22 conversion units for my various pistols and the 15-22 fills the same niche for my ARs.

[jandbj]

I bought a.15-22 about 15 minutes after somebody told me I could swap the trigger. I put a Holosun 510 on it with the same reticle as my Eotech. The only thing it lacks is an ambi safety, which is no longer available. I really like my .22 conversion units for my various pistols and the 15-22 fills the same niche for my ARs.

https://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/shop/product/bad-ass-pro-1522-bad-ass-pro-m-p15-22-reversible-90-60-ambidextrous-safety-selector-4565?category=14#attr=

[AzShooter]

I've been seeing a lot more 15-22s than lately at our local Steel Challenge Matches. Like everyone else, it's hard to find primers so even the Grand Masters have taken to shooting .22 LRs instead of their 9s. The availability of ammo has to be one thing to consider.

[Oldherkpilot]

I've been seeing a lot more 15-22s than lately at our local Steel Challenge Matches. Like everyone else, it's hard to find primers so even the Grand Masters have taken to shooting .22 LRs instead of their 9s. The availability of ammo has to be one thing to consider.

My local club does an abbreviated sort of steel challenge and its a rarity to see a centerfire used anymore. But there are 4 or 5 kids who shoot 15-22s. One is a 7 y/o and the oldest is about 10. Watching their dads work with them and seeing their weapons discipline is a thing of beauty. A couple of them really make me feel old and slow!