CDNN LE trade in M&P 15

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-5-56-used-exc-condition.html#.WjRaud-nHIU

This isn't the "sport" model, it's the M&P15 with the M4 barrel profile. I called CDNN and they said the quad rail is factory. I went ahead and ordered one, but it'll probably be after Christmas before I can get back to the FFL to pick it up.

$499.99.

[Casual Friday]

https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-5-56-used-exc-condition.html#.WjRaud-nHIU

This isn't the "sport" model, it's the M&P15 with the M4 barrel profile. I called CDNN and they said the quad rail is factory. I went ahead and ordered one, but it'll probably be after Christmas before I can get back to the FFL to pick it up.

$499.99.

Ordered. Thanks for the heads up.

My niece's fiance is wanting to buy an AR with his Christmas bonus. I forwarded him that link and told him he should jump on it. He replied "I can assemble one from PSA for that price." Jesus wept...

[Kyle Reese]

Ordered. Thanks for the heads up.

My niece's fiance is wanting to buy an AR with his Christmas bonus. I forwarded him that link and told him he should jump on it. He replied "I can assemble one from PSA for that price." Jesus wept...If it's any consolation, you'll be the first person that he calls when his PSA parts gun doesn't work.

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[Casual Friday]

If it's any consolation, you'll be the first person that he calls when his PSA parts gun doesn't work.

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Hopefully he takes heed of the advice I gave him after my younger didn't know better days with PSA guns. Check the head space and put a legit BCG in it and it'll probably be ok until you can upgrade.

[lwt16]

Keep us posted with pics when you get that rifle.

My agency recently ordered a bunch of Bushmasters to replace Vietnam era freebies from .gov that had been converted to semi-auto only. They got their shiny new Bushys and asked me if I wanted one and I politely declined. I have an issued Colt collapsible from the Clinton AWB era (stamped on the receiver LE only) and have thousands of rounds experience with it. If it ain't broke I don't want a fix.

Few months later, they recalled all the Bushys and issued Ruger AR-556 sticks. Said the birdcage flash hiders were backing off in range sessions. So they went to the Rugers and I, again, politely declined and stuck with the Colt.

About three months later, they recalled all the Rugers for some sort of catastrophic failures during 200-300 round sessions (I suspect bad BCGs but they are very hush hush with it since the Rugers were the baby of the Rangemaster who suffers from extreme butthurt)......and issued......wait for it.........brand new Bushmasters.

I kid you not.

I've built a BCM build that is rock solid, a cheap PSA model for my son, and a cheap Delton kit for a trunk gun for trips. I've been happy with all three........even the Delton which is the cheapest of the lot. I don't have that many rounds through it (500 ish) but so far it's great.

I'm sure those Smiths were carried a lot and shot very little.....like most LE trade ins.

Regards.

[OlongJohnson]

Another option in that price range:

https://www.kingsfirearmsonline.com/products/semi-automatic-armalite-armalite-m15-rifle

One little detail: I've used the Armalite bolt catch in the past. It's a bit stronger (at least larger in cross section) and easier to activate manually than the MIL-spec design.

[olstyn]

I'm sure those Smiths were carried a lot and shot very little.....like most LE trade ins.

Do you have any recourse if you happen to get one that has 50K rounds down the pipe and a ton of worn out parts, or just happens to not run right? I could see a lot of places balking at taking back a used gun, especially if they've got some sort of disclaimer about them being sold "as is" or similar.

[lwt16]

I would assume that is going to vary from distributor to distributor.

Only our SWAT rifles were/are shot a lot since they are the only ones able to dictate how much they train. The rest of us are limited to about 200 rounds a year.......on a good year.......and that is only the ones that want to train.

Used PD guns are usually a good bet.....used cars from PDs......not so much.

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you have any recourse if you happen to get one that has 50K rounds down the pipe and a ton of worn out parts, or just happens to not run right? I could see a lot of places balking at taking back a used gun, especially if they've got some sort of disclaimer about them being sold "as is" or similar.

It's advertised as "excellent" condition. Should it not be in "excellent" condition, I'll simply not accept it from the FFL and contact CDNN. I've no doubt they'll make it right, but if they don't I have the option of filing with my credit card since I did not get what I ordered. I'm not particularly concerned.

The Armalights look a little rougher, though at that price it's still fairly tempting. Personally, I'd still pay the extra $50 for the better condition (and with factory quad rail, as I'm going to add that anyway) S&W.

[BehindBlueI's]

FFL texted me. Only cosmetic flaw is a spot on brass deflector. Rifle looks good.

[GuanoLoco]

That's a good deal. My first AR was an M&P-15 - ran like a champ through practice and classes.

Stock, quad-rail, front sight - not my cup of tea but they work - I replaced it all. 1:9 twist 16" barrel. Receivers are tight, bolt is solid. Just works.

I'd MUCH rather have this than some frankengat - and I've built some frankengats for various reasons (300 AAC Blackout, AR-9, pistols, rifles, etc.)

[BehindBlueI's]

FFL texted me. Only cosmetic flaw is a spot on brass deflector. Rifle looks good.

The guy who does his gunsmithing (and a friend of mine) looked it over. He said it's all factory parts, nobody screwed with it. Yankee Hill is maker for quadrail. He said it'd be a huge surprise if it had more than 250-500 rounds through the gun in total.

[olstyn]

The guy who does his gunsmithing (and a friend of mine) looked it over. He said it's all factory parts, nobody screwed with it. Yankee Hill is maker for quadrail. He said it'd be a huge surprise if it had more than 250-500 rounds through the gun in total.

Sounds like you got a sweet deal, then. :)

[BehindBlueI's]

I picked it up while traveling through, buddy opened up a little early for me.

Niiice trigger. Surprisingly nice.

[Casual Friday]

Picked mine up on Sunday and gave it the once over. Doesn't look like it's been shot much at all. Everything is solid. Wear on the deflector, little wear on the bottom side of the rail that looks like it was rested on something during training.

I was planning on taking it out today or tomorrow and shooting it. After seeing it in person on Christmas, my niece's fiance really liked it and said he'd rather have one of these than a PSA build. I thought about, realized I didn't really need it and only bought it because of the price, so I made him a deal. I sold it to him for what I paid for it and I split the transfer fee with him(Washington State). He was happier than President Trump when they upped the maximum Twitter characters allowed. In the end it cost me $52.50 to own the rifle for 48 hours($35 transfer to me then $17.50 transfer to him) but I got the peace of mind that he's got a good rifle.

[Totem Polar]

^^^You’re a good dude, CF.

(Also, your soon to be nephew-in-law will be even happier if WA legislation goes the way of all things.)

[Casual Friday]

^^^You’re a good dude, CF.

(Also, your soon to be nephew-in-law will be even happier if WA legislation goes the way of all things.)

Thanks. Having gone the PSA route twice when I first got into AR's, I know that they can either be good or really bad. The first one I pieced together is still going strong after replacing the PSA BCG with a BCM BCG. It's my dedicated training gun and hasn't given me any hiccups. The second one I put together was out of spec nearly everywhere and I returned everything but the lower. I put a BCM LPK and upper on it and it's my HD rifle.

If I can save someone the headache I'm glad to help.

[BehindBlueI's]

I finally got the rifle to the range this evening. First time ever I didn't have to adjust the iron sights at all. I was pleasantly surprised. I've put an Aimpoint on it, and it took me a few tries to dial it in but not too much effort.

I only ran 60 rounds through it, total, but liked the way it shot. Light rain and getting dark made for a shorter range outing.

Anyway, a light and a sling and I'll be ready to wring it out a bit more.

[leathermaneod]

Congrats on your new rifle! I hope it continues to serve you well!

I am curious though, why all the hate for PSA stuff? I was skeptical myself until I talked to some coworkers and then ordered one myself. I have been very pleasantly surprised with the quality for the price point. Now it’s not very old yet and the round count is very low so far, but based on my experience with the rifle and PSA service, I think it’s going to be a great gun! And if it’s not, I’m pretty sure they will take care of me.


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[Casual Friday]

Congrats on your new rifle! I hope it continues to serve you well!

I am curious though, why all the hate for PSA stuff? I was skeptical myself until I talked to some coworkers and then ordered one myself. I have been very pleasantly surprised with the quality for the price point. Now it’s not very old yet and the round count is very low so far, but based on my experience with the rifle and PSA service, I think it’s going to be a great gun! And if it’s not, I’m pretty sure they will take care of me.


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Here's my first hand experience. PSA parts will either be good, or horrible. Their QC is all over the place, nowhere near the level of consistency I look for.

Out of all the PSA stuff I bought trying to save money and have a "just as good" rifle, the only thing that remains is one lower and one upper, and they're not paired up because both are out of spec enough to not work with each other. The PSA lower is paired up with a BCM upper and barrel, and the PSA upper is on an Aero Precision lower.

If you're looking for a range toy, the PSA will probably serve you well. If you're looking for an AR pattern rifle to stake your life on, 6920 or bust.

[leathermaneod]

Here's my first hand experience. PSA parts will either be good, or horrible. Their QC is all over the place, nowhere near the level of consistency I look for.

Out of all the PSA stuff I bought trying to save money and have a "just as good" rifle, the only thing that remains is one lower and one upper, and they're not paired up because both are out of spec enough to not work with each other. The PSA lower is paired up with a BCM upper and barrel, and the PSA upper is on an Aero Precision lower.

If you're looking for a range toy, the PSA will probably serve you well. If you're looking for an AR pattern rifle to stake your life on, 6920 or bust.

Very interesting, thanks for the reply!


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[leathermaneod]

Here's my first hand experience. PSA parts will either be good, or horrible. Their QC is all over the place, nowhere near the level of consistency I look for.

Out of all the PSA stuff I bought trying to save money and have a "just as good" rifle, the only thing that remains is one lower and one upper, and they're not paired up because both are out of spec enough to not work with each other. The PSA lower is paired up with a BCM upper and barrel, and the PSA upper is on an Aero Precision lower.

If you're looking for a range toy, the PSA will probably serve you well. If you're looking for an AR pattern rifle to stake your life on, 6920 or bust.

How long ago was that?


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[Casual Friday]

How long ago was that?


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2012-2014.

[leathermaneod]

2012-2014.

Gotcha, I’m wondering if things have improved in recent years.


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[HCM]

Gotcha, I’m wondering if things have improved in recent years.


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It won't because PSA's business model is based in large part on the seconds, scraps and over runs of others. It a crap shoot each time. Their assembly is also a roll of the dice each time.

Another thing to be aware of is PSA's QC level is not monolithic. Their higher end PSA and PSA Premium lines are not all bad but you are taking a chance vs the PTAC and Freedom lines which are gun show junk grade.

For a range toy - why not? For a serious use or duty rifle, No.

[Suvorov]

I've had good luck with M&P rifle. Other than having to send it back to S&W for a poorly milled lower (which they replaced) and needing to replace a gas ring at about 2000 rounds, it's been a real good rifle taking me though Paul Howe's carbine class and a whole bunch of shooting. It was an early model from when Smith was just getting their tooling set up which probably explains the receiver issue. Also picked up a newer one with the Thompson 1:8 barrel for my son and it looks to be even nicer. I'd say you guys got a steal!

[leathermaneod]

It won't because PSA's business model is based in large part on the seconds, scraps and over runs of others. It a crap shoot each time. Their assembly is also a roll of the dice each time.

Another thing to be aware of is PSA's QC level is not monolithic. Their higher end PSA and PSA Premium lines are not all bad but you are taking a chance vs the PTAC and Freedom lines which are gun show junk grade.

For a range toy - why not? For a serious use or duty rifle, No.

I certainly appreciate your input, but it definitely doesn’t match my experience, or that of my coworkers so far. It will certainly be interesting to see how these rifles hold up in the long run, but so far I’m very happy with mine and would recommend PSA to a friend for HD or casual use. That’s not to say I put them on the same level as others like Aero Precision, because I don’t have the experience to be that sure of them, but so far I’m very impressed, especially at the price point.


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[Casual Friday]

I certainly appreciate your input, but it definitely doesn’t match my experience, or that of my coworkers so far. It will certainly be interesting to see how these rifles hold up in the long run, but so far I’m very happy with mine and would recommend PSA to a friend for HD or casual use. That’s not to say I put them on the same level as others like Aero Precision, because I don’t have the experience to be that sure of them, but so far I’m very impressed, especially at the price point.


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What exactly is your experience and your coworkers that differs from years of known issues with PSA? HCM ain't talking out of his ass here.

[leathermaneod]

What exactly is your experience and your coworkers that differs from years of known issues with PSA? HCM ain't talking out of his ass here.

My intent was not to accuse anyone of talking out their rear. I was merely suggesting that things at PSA may have changed for the better based on my recent experience and that of my coworkers. Mine and my coworkers experiences have been nothing but good so far. I was apprehensive about buying before I talked to them, but they put my mind at ease and, at least at this point, I’m glad I listened to them. Maybe that will change in the future, but at this point I’m a happy customer. Keep in mind I am not of the hardcore operator mindset that some here are. I am also not a police officer who will use this rifle on duty. If I were my opinions might be different, though I hear colt has their share of issues too :-)


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[Casual Friday]

My intent was not to accuse anyone of talking out their rear. I was merely suggesting that things at PSA may have changed for the better based on my recent experience and that of my coworkers. Mine and my coworkers experiences have been nothing but good so far. I was apprehensive about buying before I talked to them, but they put my mind at ease and, at least at this point, I’m glad I listened to them. Maybe that will change in the future, but at this point I’m a happy customer. Keep in mind I am not of the hardcore operator mindset that some here are. I am also not a police officer who will use this rifle on duty. If I were my opinions might be different, though I here colt has their share of issues too :-)


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Their business model hasn't changed.

[leathermaneod]

Their business model hasn't changed.

Well thank you for your opinion. I will keep it in mind as I decide on future purchases and see how things go with my current rifle :-)


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[HCM]

I certainly appreciate your input, but it definitely doesn’t match my experience, or that of my coworkers so far. It will certainly be interesting to see how these rifles hold up in the long run, but so far I’m very happy with mine and would recommend PSA to a friend for HD or casual use. That’s not to say I put them on the same level as others like Aero Precision, because I don’t have the experience to be that sure of them, but so far I’m very impressed, especially at the price point.


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I have co-workers whose experience matches yours but I’ve also seen some significant assembly and QC issues with PSA.

When you say “PSA” do you mean their PSA and PSA premium lines or their Freedom and PTAC lines? Because they are VERY different.

PSA vs Aero is interesting. PSA does not actually manufacture anything. Aero is an established Aviation industry manufacturer and have been OEM ‘ing receivers for several well know AR 15 and AR 10 brands for many years, just like Mega.

I would not hesitate to buy anything Aero actually makes, basically their receivers and scope mounts and their barrels which are made by Ballistic advantage, which is now owned by Aero.

However, I have seen issues with Aero’s complete guns because the small parts they buy are simply the cheapest they can find.

[leathermaneod]

I have co-workers whose experience matches yours but I’ve also seen some significant assembly and QC issues with PSA.

PSA vs Aero is interesting. PSA does not actually manufacture anything. Aero is an established Aviation industry manufacturer and have been OEM ‘ing receivers for several well know AR 15 and AR 10 brands for many years, just like Mega.

I would not hesitate to buy anything Aero actually makes, basically their receivers and scope mounts and their barrels which are made by Ballistic advantage, which is now owned by Aero.

However, I have seen issues with Aero’s complete guns because the small parts they buy are simply the cheapest they can find.

Very interesting! I really appreciate the info. I plan to build my next rifle from the ground up, so I’m glad to learn things like this. :-)


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[LittleLebowski]

I love my M&P15 in 5.45, it’s on its third barrel and still original bolt.

With regards to PSA QC, I think that if you want parts and rifles to be QC’d to the point that the manufacturer built a go and no go setup for even the gas tube, you need to go BCM or KAC. Maybe Colt.

Anyway, S&W is my pick for cheaper ARs. Because personal experience.

[HCM]

I love my M&P15 in 5.45, it’s on its third barrel and still original bolt.

With regards to PSA QC, I think that if you want parts and rifles to be QC’d to the point that the manufacturer built a go and no go setup for even the gas tube, you need to go BCM or KAC. Maybe Colt.

Anyway, S&W is my pick for cheaper ARs. Because personal experience.

My personal 2007 / 2008 vintage M&P has been great. I’ve seen issues with some Agency issued M&P’s. Mostly assembly issues.

When the M&P’s came out they were a god deal vs Colt 6920’s which were $1200-1500 if you could find one.

In the $500 or less AR market the S&W Sport is the king.

[leathermaneod]

When you say “PSA” do you mean their PSA and PSA premium lines or their Freedom and PTAC lines? Because they are VERY different.



My barrel is a Freedom, nitrided. I honestly don’t know what particular line my lower and upper are from. The upper came with the barrel and the lower came with magpul furniture and their EPT trigger. I’m assuming it’s all from their low end lines because of the price. My bolt is marked hp/mpi though :-)


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[HCM]

My barrel is a Freedom, nitrided. I honestly don’t know what particular line my lower and upper are from. The upper came with the barrel and the lower came with magpul furniture and their EPT trigger. I’m assuming it’s all from their low end lines because of the price. My bolt is marked hp/mpi though :-)


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If every PSA gun were bad they would be out of business. The real issue with PSA is you never know what you are gonna get.

Let’s take PSA out of the equation. Substitute DPMS. Windham etc.

The issue with these guns from a professional or hard use perspective is not that they are likely fail during the 30 rounds or less they might get used for real, but rather that they do not hold up to the regular use of round counts required by a serious user.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a nitrided barrel. Barrels are one of the areas where you tend to get what you pay for.

[Alembic]

I love my M&P15 in 5.45, it’s on its third barrel and still original bolt.

With regards to PSA QC, I think that if you want parts and rifles to be QC’d to the point that the manufacturer built a go and no go setup for even the gas tube, you need to go BCM or KAC. Maybe Colt.

Anyway, S&W is my pick for cheaper ARs. Because personal experience.

What's the consensus on 5.56 LMT these days? Lewis Machine and Tool.

Question is not worthy of a new thread, just curious if current 5.556 LMT is in the S&W, BCM, Colt, Dan. Def. reliable boat or the Larue, PWS, Noveske, boutique boat.

[BehindBlueI's]

With regards to PSA QC, I think that if you want parts and rifles to be QC’d to the point that the manufacturer built a go and no go setup for even the gas tube, you need to go BCM or KAC. Maybe Colt.

My system:
1) Realize I'm out of my depth.
2) Take rifle to armorer.
3) Ask armorer if everything is in spec.
4) If something isn't, have him fix it or replace it. If it is, carry on.

My S&W checked out very nicely.

[LittleLebowski]

My system:
1) Realize I'm out of my depth.
2) Take rifle to armorer.
3) Ask armorer if everything is in spec.
4) If something isn't, have him fix it or replace it. If it is, carry on.

My S&W checked out very nicely.
Failure2Stop is on my payroll :cool:

[HCM]

What's the consensus on 5.56 LMT these days? Lewis Machine and Tool.

Question is not worthy of a new thread, just curious if current 5.556 LMT is in the S&W, BCM, Colt, Dan. Def. reliable boat or the Larue, PWS, Noveske, boutique boat.

LMT is first quality - definitely reliable. Availability on the commercial side has been an issue. They are not as common because the focus on .mil contracts, both for guns and replacement parts for other manufacturers weapons and also do (or did) OEM manufacturing for other brands.

Their AR-10 is the standard issue DMR for UK and other commonwealth forces including the New Zealanders who have now also replaced their AUGs with the LMT MARS 5.56. The MARS is the latest version of LMT's monolithic rail piston gun.

I have two of their DI guns purchased back in 2007 when Colt 6920' s were unobtanium due to war production. In the current market, LMT DI guns are a little pricey for what you get compared to say BCM, but the quality is there.

Karl Lewis sr and Reed Knight Sr go way back and there is some sort of professional relationship between the companies.

[OlongJohnson]

Aero is an established Aviation industry manufacturer and have been OEM ‘ing receivers for several well know AR 15 and AR 10 brands for many years, just like Mega.

Comparing stripped receivers, the additional cost for a Mega forged receiver is well worth it versus an Aero part. Machining detailing is much nicer, and the Aero parts I inspected had defective anodizing, as opposed to the nice, perfect ano on the Mega stuff.

[HCM]

Comparing stripped receivers, the additional cost for a Mega forged receiver is well worth it versus an Aero part. Machining detailing is much nicer, and the Aero parts I inspected had defective anodizing, as opposed to the nice, perfect ano on the Mega stuff.

No argument mega makes some of the best receivers.

Just pointing out 1) both were aviation manufacturers (Boeing sub contractors) before getting into guns and 2) both have made OEM receivers for other brands for many years.