Steve Bannon & Roy Moore

[UNK]

Did anybody watch the Roy Moore rally last night? Sheriff Clark and Roy's fellow officer from Vietnam were in attendance. Also Steve Bannon was in attendance and spoke. I try to watch every presentation he has. I have a feeling if he carries out his plan he could be a serious contender for the next presidential election. That is after Trump finishes his 8 year term.

[RoyGBiv]

Didn't watch. Had a nice dinner, didn't want to give it back.
The possibility of Moore being a creep, or pedophile is hard enough to look past, but given those accusations haven't been adjudicated... But it's demonstrable that he's twice been removed from the bench for conflating his religion with his elected position and as a judge he's used his position to influence against same sex marriage (maybe a judge should be impartial and rule based on law?). His wife is being quoted today as defending against accusations of anti semitism by claiming "one of our attorneys is a Jew".

My resentment is further compounded because this cornhole is pretty much a must win to maintain a republican senate and the people of Alabama are being asked to choose a candidate I would never invite to my house for dinner or leave alone with my daughter, for the good of the country.

The only good outcome would be for him to win and step down..

I applaud Bannons drain the swamp rhetoric, but he's hitched his wagon to a turd in this race. When I have the septic tank cleaned out, I typically choose not to watch.

[Sensei]

Did anybody watch the Roy Moore rally last night? Sheriff Clark and Roy's fellow officer from Vietnam were in attendance. Also Steve Bannon was in attendance and spoke. I try to watch every presentation he has. I have a feeling if he carries out his plan he could be a serious contender for the next presidential election. That is after Trump finishes his 8 year term.

Sorry, but could you clarify who you are referring to when you say “he.” Is it Moore, Clark, or Bannon?

[alohadoug]

Cause we would be much better off if we cancelled all amendments after the 10th


/sarc

[ragnar_d]

Didn't watch. Had a nice dinner, didn't want to give it back.
The possibility of Moore being a creep, or pedophile is hard enough to look past, but given those accusations haven't been adjudicated... But it's demonstrable that he's twice been removed from the bench for conflating his religion with his elected position and as a judge he's used his position to influence against same sex marriage (maybe a judge should be impartial and rule based on law?). His wife is being quoted today as defending against accusations of anti semitism by claiming "one of our attorneys is a Jew".

My resentment is further compounded because this cornhole is pretty much a must win to maintain a republican senate and the people of Alabama are being asked to choose a candidate I would never invite to my house for dinner or leave alone with my daughter, for the good of the country.

The only good outcome would be for him to win and step down..

I applaud Bannons drain the swamp rhetoric, but he's hitched his wagon to a turd in this race. When I have the septic tank cleaned out, I typically choose not to watch.


That pretty much summed up my feelings on the whole thing. Between the issues he had as a judge and other people close to him/his family saying he's a Tier 1 a-hole . . . yeah, I abstained from this election (live in FL, but still have our primary residence/registered to vote in AL for now). I don't view trotting out Sheriff Clarke to sing someone's praises as a positive either . . . those two egos (Moore and Clarke) in one room could very well suffocate everybody there.

I pretty much stopped following politics, but my view on this was that whoever wins, Alabama loses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNK]

Sorry, but could you clarify who you are referring to when you say “he.” Is it Moore, Clark, or Bannon?

Bannon

[Dagga Boy]

Sadly, because congress is such a dysfunctional cesspool of stupid and nobody can compromise or work out any deals, this is the crap that happens. It disturbs my calm that nobody can seem to cross any party lines on issues. You either get CA. Crap via Pelosi or Capt. No risk McConnel. We are all doomed.

[Sensei]

Sadly, because congress is such a dysfunctional cesspool of stupid and nobody can compromise or work out any deals, this is the crap that happens. It disturbs my calm that nobody can seem to cross any party lines on issues. You either get CA. Crap via Pelosi or Capt. No risk McConnel. We are all doomed.

Ask McCain, Flake, Corker, Rubio et al what happened when they tried to compromise or workout deals. Better yet, go to some of the more popular gun forums and type in one of those names in the search function.

I’m not convinced that Congress is the cesspool of stupid that you should be worried about...

[Sensei]

Bannon

The value of Bannon’s reale state, to the extent that it still has value outside of the Brietbart.com warriors, depends a lot on the outcome of today’s election. He damaged himself getting behind Moore. He should become the laughingstock of the populist movement if his candidate loses in a deep red state like AL, but I’m sure the true believers are gonna still believe.

[blues]

All I can say is that if the aforementioned are the best and brightest to be touted going forward, I'll pass.

(Though I admit I've enjoyed Clarke's performances in the past.)

[CWM11B]

They both suck. As do most candidates for public office. Who in the hell but near fanatical narcissists would want to open their lives up to the BS that goes with public office? I'm not voting in AL, but if I were, you can bet your sweet ass I would hold my nose and vote Moore. His opponent is an ultra left jackwagon that could hold up getting things like tax reform passed. Plus, he is anti gun. Any more, I'm getting to be like the late great Pat Rogers: Single issue voter and that issue is guns. From my observations, pro 2A generally means they pretty much align with, or at least won't significantly damage institutions and ideals I believe in to the core.

[Kirk]

Delete. I’ll keep my thoughts to myself. Lol.

[Zincwarrior]

/sarc

I guess that "no more slavery" thing is just inconvenient for him.

[alohadoug]

I guess that "no more slavery" thing is just inconvenient for him.

And women voting...

[blues]

I guess that "no more slavery" thing is just inconvenient for him.


And women voting...

Well, on the plus side he has (or had) a Jew lawyer. :rolleyes: (And I bet some of his best friends are black.)

[Hambo]

I’m not convinced that Congress is the cesspool of stupid that you should be worried about...

Yeah, that.

[Peally]

All I can say is that if the aforementioned are the best and brightest to be touted going forward, I'll pass.

(Though I admit I've enjoyed Clarke's performances in the past.)

You never get the best and brightest in politics, those people are too busy actually being useful in the world.

[blues]

You never get the best and brightest in politics, those people are too busy actually being useful in the world.

I meant the best and brightest of the subset of miscreants involved in the political arena. You can't honestly think that I thought otherwise.
C'mon, you know me better than that!

[Irelander]

But it's demonstrable that he's twice been removed from the bench for conflating his religion with his elected position and as a judge he's used his position to influence against same sex marriage...

Funny how different people are. Those are the reasons I like him.

Also, I couldn't really give a crap if he hit on some younger women 40 years ago. Glad no one is judging me on what I did even 20 years ago.

[Drang]

Also, I couldn't really give a crap if he hit on some underage women 40 years ago. Glad no one is judging me on what I did even 20 years ago.
He admits to dating women younger than him.
The allegations regarding underage women are unproven, and rely on dubious evidence, which only the accusers representative (Gloria Allred) has seen, but the accuser admits she doctored.

[TheNewbie]

People should look at the big picture. The left is anti-American, and that is what people should vote based off in situstions like this. Screw feeling good about yourself, do what's the best option for the country.

[Morbidbattlecry]

People should look at the big picture. The left is anti-American, and that is what people should vote based off in situstions like this. Screw feeling good about yourself, do what's the best option for the country.

Uh the Republican in this race said the US deserved 9/11. That's pretty anti-american.

[Kirk]

People should look at the big picture. The left is anti-American, and that is what people should vote based off in situstions like this. Screw feeling good about yourself, do what's the best option for the country.

This post is ridiculous, and I’m a conservative. Lol.

[TheNewbie]

This post is ridiculous, and I’m a conservative. Lol.

How so?

[TheNewbie]

Uh the Republican in this race said the US deserved 9/11. That's pretty anti-american.

It's a little more grey than that. I'm no Moore lover but saying something stupid is not the same as trying to undo the American value system.

[Kirk]

How so?

I think issuing a blanket statement calling “The Left” “Anti-American” is somewhat outrageous. You may not agree with their idealogy or methodology, but in most cases, “the left” believes they are bettering the country. Many are very patriotic, freedom loving Americans.

Above you mention the “American Value System.” The American value system is made up of the belief systems of the citizenry. This almost always trends left over long periods of time. It’s hard to argue anyone is “undoing the America value system” when that is a constantly moving target. It isn’t written on a stone tablet. It may violate your value system, but not a gentleman in New York’s value system.

Again, I’m a conservative, but our value system will continue to trend left for the foreseeable future.

[TheNewbie]

I think issuing a blanket statement calling “The Left” “Anti-American” is somewhat outrageous. You may not agree with their idealogy or methodology, but in most cases, “the left” believes they are bettering the country. Many are very patriotic, freedom loving Americans.

Ok, leftism is anti-American . Does that sound better?

While there are many decent people on the left, I doubt many of them love what America stands for. God based society, liberty, race does not matter, freedom of speech, fighting evil. I'm sure they think they are improving America but that's because they want to FUNDAMENTALLY change America.

[blues]

Newbie, I love you like a little brother but I gotta take a dissenting position vis a vis your statement.

[TheNewbie]

Newbie, I love you like a little brother but I gotta take a dissenting position vis a vis your statement.

It's ok, I know most people do.

To clarify I don't think most leftists are bad people, they just don't appreciate what America stands for. They want to change it, so that's why I think I'm looking at the bigger picture where many are looking at it as a micro issue.

Of course I'm never wrong, except for the time I thought I saw an alligator and it was just a log. :pu

[Kirk]

Ok, leftism is anti-American . Does that sound better?

Still disagree, because an idea or theory cannot be pro or anti-American if the population agrees with it and it does not violate the US Constitution. America is quite simply the population. America 2017 is certainly different than America 1990 or America 1945. Things will continue to trend left for the forseeable future.

All good though man, we are all entitled to our opinions and I definitely respect yours

[TheNewbie]

Still disagree, because an idea or theory cannot be pro or anti-American if the population agrees with it and it does not violate the US Constitution. America is quite simply the population. America 2017 is certainly different than America 1990 or America 1945. Things will continue to trend left for the forseeable future.

All good though man, we are all entitled to our opinions and I definitely respect yours

Right and I'm glad we can have different opinions. I also think I see where we differ, you see America as a population and I see it as an idea.

If I saw it as only a population, I would probably think just like you. That's not an attack on you, just simply a point clarify why we may differ.

[Sensei]

Fox News calls it for Doug Jones. Congratulations Steve Bannon.

[pangloss]

Not that I don't love semantics, but the words we use to discuss politics have become useless. No offense intended. "Conservative" today does not mean what it did in 1964, neither does liberal mean what it classically did. Both parties are corrupting the terminology. Conservative is now used to mean "Republican," which has become a self-defining end unto itself. For the record, I'm a lifelong Republican, so I say make these comments with deep disappointment rather than derision.

In other news, the AP just called the election for Doug Jones.

[Sensei]

Not that I don't love semantics, but the words we use to discuss politics have become useless. No offense intended. "Conservative" today does not mean what it did in 1964, neither does liberal mean what it classically did. Both parties are corrupting the terminology. Conservative is now used to mean "Republican," which has become a self-defining end unto itself. For the record, I'm a lifelong Republican, so I say make these comments with deep disappointment rather than derision.

In other news, the AP just called the election for Doug Jones.

I agree. The words conservative, populist, and republican are not synonymous.

[pangloss]

I agree. The words conservative, populist, and republican are not synonymous.Especially populist!

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[CWM11B]

Delete. I’ll keep my thoughts to myself. Lol.

Well, for what it's worth, I read your post and saw nothing in it you should have felt the need to delete it for. You made some solid observations. I had a couple of replies done and my ridiculous internet service dumped them when I tried to post them. Two points to consider from your thoughts: If Moore had to change his message sell himself to Alabama, then he will be the same old same old when he gets to Washington (he had not won when I originally prepared this), say one thing then do another. Gun ownership and hunting is not a guarantee of pro 2A. Joe Biden owns guns and hunts. I am also leery of condemning someone on allegations alone. It reeks of mob rules, which all fun and games until the mob turns on you. FWIW, I despise the policies of Franken and Conyers. They denied the allegations against them, but nonetheless resigned (or, in Franken's case promised to, maybe). I do not think they should have if they really believe they had done nothing wrong. I would have fought to protect my name and honor. Moore may be the lecher he is accused of being, but until there is compelling evidence against him, or ANY poor guy who gets the allegation of sexual harassment or offense thrown at them, then they should get the presumption of innocence. I'm not a fan of destroying someone because you disagree with them.

It is all academic now. Jones is in. Personally, I think it is bad for the country, but plenty are happy. I also have the gut feeling there will be plenty of buyers remorse in AL. I wish we could reduce federal power so these state level elections didn't have such far reaching effects. I've heard a lot of poo-pooing of the 10th amendment of late, and while it may have been an excuse to do some pretty horrible things it did not negate other constitutional protections.

At any rate, the level of adult behavior in the discussions here is why it is one of two gun-centric boards I frequent and post on.

[TheNewbie]

Not that I don't love semantics, but the words we use to discuss politics have become useless. No offense intended. "Conservative" today does not mean what it did in 1964, neither does liberal mean what it classically did. Both parties are corrupting the terminology. Conservative is now used to mean "Republican," which has become a self-defining end unto itself. For the record, I'm a lifelong Republican, so I say make these comments with deep disappointment rather than derision.

In other news, the AP just called the election for Doug Jones.

True. JFK was a liberal but he would not do well in today's Democratic Party. He was pro life, pro gun , and pro low taxes.

[Kanye Wyoming]

My two cents. We (Rs) lose a Senate seat in late December, by which time the tax bill will have been passed. Still have 51 for nominations.

In 2018, with the economy likely doing even better as a result, and without Moore as the media-driven face of the party, Rs can again expect to pick up 3 or 4 or 5 of the vulnerable D seats. At which point it will take more than 3 McCains or Corkers or Pauls or Collinses to squelch legislation that can be enacted through reconciliation, such as Obamacare repeal and any tweaks to the tax bill that might become advisable.

ETA: Plus, the 8 or 9 vulnerable Ds might now feel more pressure than they would have had Moore won to vote for concealed carry reciprocity.

[Zincwarrior]

Not that I don't love semantics, but the words we use to discuss politics have become useless. No offense intended. "Conservative" today does not mean what it did in 1964, neither does liberal mean what it classically did. Both parties are corrupting the terminology. Conservative is now used to mean "Republican," which has become a self-defining end unto itself. For the record, I'm a lifelong Republican, so I say make these comments with deep disappointment rather than derision.

In other news, the AP just called the election for Doug Jones.

So Alabama decided to not elect an alleged child molester. Good deal, but surprising. Maybe there is hope for us yet.

[fatdog]

Some elucidation for those of you outside Alabama.

Jones win boiled down to one thing, and one thing only, the women who claimed to be molested as very young teenagers.

Fear, uncertainty, doubt was planted, it worked purely as voter suppression.

Our hopeless alcoholic of a governor and the state republican party did not have the stones to go interfere with the process and remove Moore once it became clear by law that he could not be removed from the ballot when all this stuff broke.

If any other republican candidate had been on the ballet including any of the ones who lost to Moore in the primary, they would have won in a landslide.

Enough voters found the allegations disturbing enough, credible enough, etc. to stay home, write in, or simply vote for Jones to stop Moore.

Nothing else has changed in this state. Our politics have not shifted. This was in no way a referendum on republican policies, trump, McConnel, the swamp, etc. etc. etc. as many the talking head pundits would like to claim.

Jones will be a two year senator and he is gone. Zero chance of re-election. It had nothing to do with Bannon, Trump, the democrats, rejection of Moore's beliefs, or anything else but the allegations against Moore. The media pounded home this pediphile story relentlessly in this state (and if those women had claimed to be adults when he allegedly harrassed them it probably would not have worked).

[willie]

My daddy said that things went to hell in this country when people started shitting in the house and cooking outside. ;)

[RJ]

Some elucidation for those of you outside Alabama.

Jones win boiled down to one thing, and one thing only, the women who claimed to be molested as very young teenagers.

Fear, uncertainty, doubt was planted, it worked purely as voter suppression.

Our hopeless alcoholic of a governor and the state republican party did not have the stones to go interfere with the process and remove Moore once it became clear by law that he could not be removed from the ballot when all this stuff broke.

If any other republican candidate had been on the ballet including any of the ones who lost to Moore in the primary, they would have won in a landslide.

Enough voters found the allegations disturbing enough, credible enough, etc. to stay home, write in, or simply vote for Jones to stop Moore.

Nothing else has changed in this state. Our politics have not shifted. This was in no way a referendum on republican policies, trump, McConnel, the swamp, etc. etc. etc. as many the talking head pundits would like to claim.

Jones will be a two year senator and he is gone. Zero chance of re-election. It had nothing to do with Bannon, Trump, the democrats, rejection of Moore's beliefs, or anything else but the allegations against Moore. The media pounded home this pediphile story relentlessly in this state (and if those women had claimed to be adults when he allegedly harrassed them it probably would not have worked).

Thanks for the inside the state story. Makes sense.

As an outsider, it was hard not to see this Moore as a total and complete asshole. Who rides up to vote on a Tennessee Walking horse to intimidate reporters?

And this whole “why, dang, even one of our attorneys is a Jew” comment from his wife just made my jaw drop. I mean, what the frack?

Strategically, Nancy and Chuck threw Conyers and Franken under the Sexual Misconduct Bus hoping to grab some moral high ground. They didn’t risk much (The D MN governor picks a D replacement, and Conyers district is pretty solid D). If Moore won, they would have piled on the whole “Republican Party are child molesters’ (exaggerating, but close,I think) leveraging that against the R’s nationwide generally and Trump specifically for 2018 and the Presidential Race In 2020.

I’m not thrilled with Jones, I think he’s a short term Senator. Long term though I think it may be better not to have someone like Roy Moore in public office.

[Irelander]

Ok, leftism is anti-American . Does that sound better?

While there are many decent people on the left, I doubt many of them love what America stands for. God based society, liberty, race does not matter, freedom of speech, fighting evil. I'm sure they think they are improving America but that's because they want to FUNDAMENTALLY change America.

I think what you mean is liberalism is anti-American. That is a fact.

I always loved this quote:
"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." -Ronald Reagan

[JHC]

Newbie, I love you like a little brother but I gotta take a dissenting position vis a vis your statement.

I don't think the right wing outrage radio hucksters get enough blame/credit for convincing throngs that everyone left of center hates America.

[Zincwarrior]

I think what you mean is liberalism is anti-American. That is a fact.

I always loved this quote:
"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." -Ronald Reagan

Ronald Reagan would be drummed out of the Trump Party. He believed in international trade, international agreements, the dignity if the Presidency, and was pro big tent.

The Republicans stepped on their own landmine with this election. They lost cities, and the suburbs. If they had supported a decent primary candidate, the election would be a non-issue.

Also positively this is a giant kick in the cojones to Bannon and smashes his power.

[TheNewbie]

Actually liberalism is to vague a term, but there is nothing liberal about the modern left. Many people do not recognize that leftism is against the American idea (our founding principles). That's not to say they are all bad people or that they are even wrong ( yes I think they are) but to point out loving a geographical location is not the same as loving what the American idea.

[Stephanie B]

Ronald Reagan would be drummed out of the Trump Party. He believed in international trade, international agreements, the dignity if the Presidency, and was pro big tent.

The Republicans stepped on their own landmine with this election. They lost cities, and the suburbs. If they had supported a decent primary candidate, the election would be a non-issue.

Also positively this is a giant kick in the cojones to Bannon and smashes his power.

In the words of Meghan McCain: "Suck it, Bannon.".

[Sensei]

Some elucidation for those of you outside Alabama.

Jones win boiled down to one thing, and one thing only, the women who claimed to be molested as very young teenagers.

Fear, uncertainty, doubt was planted, it worked purely as voter suppression.

Our hopeless alcoholic of a governor and the state republican party did not have the stones to go interfere with the process and remove Moore once it became clear by law that he could not be removed from the ballot when all this stuff broke.

If any other republican candidate had been on the ballet including any of the ones who lost to Moore in the primary, they would have won in a landslide.

Enough voters found the allegations disturbing enough, credible enough, etc. to stay home, write in, or simply vote for Jones to stop Moore.

Nothing else has changed in this state. Our politics have not shifted. This was in no way a referendum on republican policies, trump, McConnel, the swamp, etc. etc. etc. as many the talking head pundits would like to claim.

Jones will be a two year senator and he is gone. Zero chance of re-election. It had nothing to do with Bannon, Trump, the democrats, rejection of Moore's beliefs, or anything else but the allegations against Moore. The media pounded home this pediphile story relentlessly in this state (and if those women had claimed to be adults when he allegedly harrassed them it probably would not have worked).

It was a referendum on the voters who nominated a candidate that was deeply flawed long before the Pervnado broke. They had penty of chances to vote for a conservative candidate, but wanted to make a statement with Moore. These voters should understand they are essentially surrendering control to Democrats every time they make it a binary choice between a Republican who is reprehensible and Democrat who is disagreeable. Hillary is no longer around to be the most disgusting creature on the ballot.

[Zincwarrior]

Exactly. Here's a hint: don't nominate such horrible candidates. Just like with HRC, pick potentially criminal sleazeholds and you lose (except Illinois and New Orleans).

[BJXDS]

The Republicans better their shit together, they screwed the pooch; AGAIN!

WHY couldn't they just pick another Republican to run. Multiple allegations of sexual misconduct with minors is NEVER a good thing.

[peterb]

Boring is the new exciting. :)

[RoyGBiv]

Boring is the new exciting. :)

Pence 2020! :p

[Rex G]

Pence 2020! :p

Well, maybe, Pence before 2020?

[Nephrology]

I am happy Moore lost. The evidence against him re: underage sexual misconduct was convincing enough for the National Republican Senate Committee to refuse to endorse his candidacy, and it was convincing enough for me, too (not to mention his disturbing history of judicial misconduct to boot). I am not an Alabaman (or a Republican, or a Democrat) but I believe a bare minimum decency of character must be proven to serve as a Federal representative, and I did not find that Moore's passed muster. Just my opinion - worth what you paid for it

[Chance]

No amount of snark can summarize this guy's ignorance. I wonder how many people don't actually know this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFYRkzznsc0

22292

[Robinson]

Alabamans were left with no good choice to vote for. Evidently they were sufficiently repulsed by the allegations against Moore (I don't blame them) and voted to keep him out of office. Seems pretty simple.

A true leftist (yuck) vs. an apparent creep who as a judge worked to impose his version of morality upon the citizens (yuck). Hopefully they will have better options next time.

[blues]

Alabamans were left with no good choice to vote for...

Lot of that going around...

[peterb]

Lot of that going around...

We should be asking hard questions about what our election process has become if it discourages good people from running for public office.

[Drang]

I'm laughing at all the people acting like Roy Moore was the anointed candidate of the GOP.

Have you paid no attention to this race until last week?
Here's what this means (some noted by others, vide supra):

The US Senate is now 51 (R) 49 (D). Since Harry Reid introduced "The Nuclear Option", this means less than it might.
Long will be a two-year Senator.
The Ds cannot, now, accuse the Rs of harboring a pedophile. (Whether you believe those claims or not.)
Steve Bannon's influence is much diminished, if not completely eliminated. He owns this.
I've been seeing items to the effect that Mike Pence, not Donald Trump, is the head of the GOP. Normally, the sitting president is considered the head of the party, but Obama had no interest (or was an even bigger SCOAMF than we thought) and Trump has little or no influence over the GOP, being an outsider. (Arguably, being an outsider is what got him elected.) So the question is, can Mike Pence take the bull by the horns elephant by the tusks and force them into a coherent, effective strategy?
The Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constit ution) should be repealed. (Ironically, it was implemented in Alabama before it became national...)

[blues]

We should be asking hard questions about what our election process has become if it discourages good people from running for public office.

I think all you need to do is look around and see what's become of our nation, our culture, our values.

I, for one, would never consider running for public office since somehow, someone would bring up the time Linda M. accused me of trying to feel her up in 5th grade.

(The one legit time I was actually innocent of such unbecoming allegations. Sigh...You just can't win even when the truth is on your side.)

[willie]

Moore's wife's comment about one of their attorneys being a Jew reminded me of a supreme anti-intellectual statement made by Ronald Reagan's Secretary of the Interior James C. Watts. He was bragging that an advisory panel was ideally balanced because it included "a black, a woman, two Jews, and a cripple". This utterance occurred in 1983, and it was a bombshell.

[RoyGBiv]

SCOAMF
Thanks! I'll put that to good use.

[ragnar_d]

Alabamans were left with no good choice to vote for. Evidently they were sufficiently repulsed by the allegations against Moore (I don't blame them) and voted to keep him out of office. Seems pretty simple.
This seemed to be the case for many of my friends in the Huntsville area. Several of them were registered Republicans or NPA and they voted for Jones or stayed out of the election for the exact reason you mention.

They didn't really like Jones, but Moore was a bridge too far based on his antics and past history and Jones (from what I've heard) banged the centrist/Blue Dog Democrat drum like he was Neil Peart in YYZ.

[Dagga Boy]

Thanks Steve Bannon......you managed to make Alabama purple. Please stay out of Texas.

[blues]

Thanks Steve Bannon......you managed to make Alabama purple. Please stay out of Texas.

It's only a matter of time for Texas...though one can still hope (despite the apparent futility). But you already know this.

[peterb]

I think all you need to do is look around and see what's become of our nation, our culture, our values.

So we get the candidates we deserve? Sadly, that's probably true. Most people pay so little attention to the actual substance of policy that shallow showmanship is all that matters.

[willie]

It's only a matter of time for Texas...though one can still hope (despite the apparent futility). But you already know this.

Yep, Texas is definitely on its way. Demographics will determine so much here and elsewhere too.

[Cheap Shot]

Yep, Texas is definitely on its way. Demographics will determine so much here and elsewhere too.

I've heard it said "demographics is destiny". I am not amused

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Since gun rights are a crucial issue, I might suggest that in the Red states where Trump/Bannon/crackpot candidates are put forward such that the Democrat might win, efforts be made to try to get that candidate to be more reasonable on gun rights and disavow the Pelosi/Schumer/Feinstein ban them all, hatred of firearms. The Democratic candidate should be told that if they adopt such a position their re-election might be at risk if they face a less distasteful disaster like Moore.

That would also serve to start to moderate the Democratic position such that negative gun rights action in Congress would be less possible and may ease the way for positive legislation. Currently, antigun rights positions are a litmus test for the Democrats. Gillibrand wasn't that bad on gun rights, coming from upstate NY, until she had national aspirations and she switched to anti. Gore did the same thing, way back when.

The Red state races can be a foot in the door for weakening gun control advocate strength in Congress across party lines. You might have to accept folks who will not be absolutists but more positive than negative.

[JodyH]

A lot of the current trends to purple are NOT due to red winning but are due to blue throwing the elections on purpose.
The GOP killed the TEA party this way and they're trying to kill Trump's "populist" party this way.
Moore was an example of the GOP deliberately taking Trumpism to absurdity to prove that Trumpism will fail and the only way to "win" is with the likes of McCain, Romney and Jeb!.
Trump was outmaneuvered by the GOP into supporting a caricature of a populist conservative and came out looking like a fool.
Alabama had several candidates that were populist/conservative that would have won that election is a walk off, but that would have made Trump look good and further eroded the GOPe's (McConnell, Ryan, McCain) control of the Republican Party.
Moores defeat was the result of an internal party struggle not a defeat of the R party or Trumps brand of populist conservatism.

IMO...

[Zincwarrior]

I've heard it said "demographics is destiny". I am not amused

Arguing the Republican Party is only the abide of the angry uneducated white man vote will make this a certain type. Trump's antics have accelerated this.

[JodyH]

"Trumps antics" have him presiding over the largest Republican majority in history from the local level through the state governments and into the Presidency.

[lwt16]

Thank goodness that election is over.

The constant barrage of commercials (radio/t.v.) and all that other political nonsense was getting way old. I loathe politics and if my wife weren't around, I'd have thrown all the t.v. sets out of the house years ago.

Their stupid ads (Moore and Jones) were ruining my living room dry fire practice. I mean....it was every commercial. Every single one of them.

Regards.

[JodyH]

Politics 24/7/365 is doing more to destroy this country than anything else.
I remember when politics was important for about 2 weeks a year. Those were to the good 'ol days.

[Zincwarrior]

Arguing the Republican Party is only the abide of the angry uneducated white man vote will make this a certain type. Trump's antics have accelerated this.


"Trumps antics" have him presiding over the largest Republican majority in history from the local level through the state governments and into the Presidency.

That majority was there before him, but will not survive him. Republicans will lose the House in 2018, and potentially the Senate.

[JodyH]

That majority was there before him, but will not survive him. Republicans will lose the House in 2018, and potentially the Senate.
$100 says they retain majority in both.
Just looking at the seats that are up and which are actually contested shows that them losing either is highly unlikely.

In the Senate Dems have 25 seats up in 2018, two Independents (Dems in actuality) are up for a total Dem liability of 27 seats. Republicans have 8 seats contested.
Slam dunk on retaining the Senate with the incumbent protection built into the system.

241 to 194 is the current House split.
I don't see 24 seats switching this time around.
It might get close, but I'm betting on a 15 seat swing at most. Putting it 225 to 210 R majority.

[blues]

Their stupid ads (Moore and Jones) were ruining my living room dry fire practice. I mean....it was every commercial. Every single one of them.

I just leave my Blackhawk demonstrator on the coffee table and take head shots on the TV images of the sorry bastards while ensuring I don't disturb the sights.

[JodyH]

BTW: Love, hate or indifferent to Trump... he's the only reason we don't have the assault weapons ban of 2017 after Las Vegas. I guarantee even a R majority Senate and House with McConnell/Ryan at the helms would have thrown us under the bus with Hillary as President.

[richiecotite]

"Trumps antics" have him presiding over the largest Republican majority in history from the local level through the state governments and into the Presidency.

I’m sure Gerrymandering has more to do with that than Trumps dumbassery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

All of us who are not leftist should be thankful for Trump. I think a lot of the opposition to him is about feeling good, which sadly feeling good about yourself is all too important to people.

The question should be, of the available choices, what is best for the country?

[Caballoflaco]

As a younger (mid 30's) Alabama resident I've hated Moore since his Ten Commandments shenanigans, and I was a devout Christian when that happened. I saw his bullshit grandstanding and violation of the constitution as nothing more than a play to gain political power. I would have voted for myself like I did yesterday even if none of the recent allegations had come out. While I could not vote for Jones I wanted and want no part of Moore representing my state and I'm glad he lost.

Something that I don't think made national news (and no one is reporting now) is that a lot of registered democrats voted illegally in the republican run off and I suspect for Moore. The state attorney general unfortunately decided not to press charges even though that was recently made a punishable crime here.

[JodyH]

I’m sure Gerrymandering has more to do with that than Trumps dumbassery
We had one alternative... and the next election will be Trump vs. Castro, Warren or Gillabrand.
I know who I'll be voting for.

[RJ]

Moore's wife's comment about one of their attorneys being a Jew reminded me of a supreme anti-intellectual statement made by Ronald Reagan's Secretary of the Interior James C. Watts. He was bragging that an advisory panel was ideally balanced because it included "a black, a woman, two Jews, and a cripple". This utterance occurred in 1983, and it was a bombshell.

I remember that guy. I was just finishing grad school. What an asshole.

[JodyH]

Something that I don't think made national news (and no one is reporting now) is that a lot of registered democrats voted illegally in the republican run off and I suspect for Moore. The state attorney general unfortunately decided not to press charges even though that was recently made a punishable crime here.
Almost like there were powerful people behind the curtains making sure the absolute worst candidate possible was put out there to lose in a very public way...

[TheNewbie]

As a younger (mid 30's) Alabama resident I've hated Moore since his Ten Commandments shenanigans, and I was a devout Christian when that happened. I saw his bullshit grandstanding and violation of the constitution as nothing more than a play to gain political power. I would have voted for myself like I did yesterday even if none of the recent allegations had come out. While I could not vote for Jones I wanted and want no part of Moore representing my state and I'm glad he lost.

Something that I don't think made national news (and no one is reporting now) is that a lot of registered democrats voted illegally in the republican run off and I suspect for Moore. The state attorney general unfortunately decided not to press charges even though that was recently made a punishable crime here.

So you prefer jones over Moore?

[peterb]

The question should be, of the available choices, what is best for the country?

The question should be "How do we get better choices?"

I'd like to be able to vote without holding my nose.

[JodyH]

The question should be "How do we get better choices?"
By having a wrecking ball smash the national GOP and Democrats to rubble and rebuilding them from the state level up.
Right now... that wrecking ball is named Trump and he's doing a pretty damn good job of Godzilla stomping his way through both parties at the national level.

6 months ago who'd have dreamed that the misogynist gun aimed at Trump would misfire and shoot both Al Franken and John Conyers in the head?

[LockedBreech]

I think Trump is an embarrassingly bad President and that the populist-conservative movement behind him is rife with ignorance, Moore being an absolutely prime example of the worst parts of the far right.

BUT....

I also think lot of good things have come out of him, and Jody kinda nailed it by calling him a wrecking ball. The establishment GOP is realizing that the patience of conservative voters is not unlimited, and the left is hopefully realizing the call-out olympics and constant moral high grounding is a failing strategy and that they need to advance an actual sound policy platform aside from "I'm not like that guy."

It's ironic that as a political moderate who finds Trump odious as a person I may end up having him to thank for a raft of changes going forward, chief of which was shaking up a broken political system and ushering in change that was badly needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

The question should be "How do we get better choices?"

I'd like to be able to vote without holding my nose.

That's a good question to ask, but first you deal with the options you have and then address the better choices question.

I was against Trump for a long time (until he was the only choice), but he has proved me wrong over and over again. I'm proud to call him my President, even if I don't like all of his tactics or ideas.


Also, I'm worried less by character of leaders and more by what they do in office. Macro vs micro.

[JodyH]

I think Trump is an embarrassingly bad President
Moore was a shining example of the ignorant far right.
But nobody at the national level says a fucking word about Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, Hank Johnson, Al Green or their loony left ilk.
Hell Nancy Pelosi is a walking, talking lunatic with dementia and she's the top ranking Democrat.

On Trump:
All economic indicators (stock market, job growth, unemployment) are pointing towards him doing a phenomenal job.
And you can prove this by how big a dip the market takes when there's news that looks bad for Trump.

On the foreign policy front our enemies have been quiet, our allies are finding their balls again and we've pulled out of shitty trade deals without repercussions.
Other countries may not like or fear us but they are respecting us as a nation again, even as they mutter under their breath what a buffoon Trump is.
Well... that buffoon just left you're brilliant leaders holding the bag on bullshit climate change initiatives and trade deals that would have shafted America.

[Sensei]

There is no such thing as a “populist-conservative” movement. Yes, there are populists who mistakenly think they are conservative and actual conservatives who voted with the populists simply to defeat the lizard queen last year. Maybe some of those conservatives will stick with Trump in 2020 if the Dems are stupid enough to do what JodyH says and nominate someone as detestable as Warren. Then again, maybe not if you consider the opinion polling in AL having Trump pegged at just 46% approval.

Finally, the character of leaders absolutely influences what they do in office. Virtually EVERY organization that trains leaders lists character as a key attribute for effectiveness. Trump’s character is a big reason why many of you will be paying 30% higher healthcare premiums in 2018. I’d have thought that 16 years of Clinton-Obama polices would have settled that misguided notion.

[TheNewbie]

Jody is correct about Moore. He was a goofball at best, but I will take a goofball any day over a leftist.

Sensei you are right about character influencing voters. I just don't think it should. What they do in office policy wise is much more important to me than most of their skeletons are.

[JHC]

By having a wrecking ball smash the national GOP and Democrats to rubble and rebuilding them from the state level up.
Right now... that wrecking ball is named Trump and he's doing a pretty damn good job of Godzilla stomping his way through both parties at the national level.

6 months ago who'd have dreamed that the misogynist gun aimed at Trump would misfire and shoot both Al Franken and John Conyers in the head?

How has Trump smashed either Party establishment? That is manifest in what result we can list here?

Who wrote the tax bill? Establishment and K Street. It's not simplified worth a shit. It's just basic Republican evolutionary. Which is OK but not how they campaign.

He is disturbing the hell out of folks in DC. I don't see that he's destroyed anything of import but the dignity of the office. But the office did need to be taken down 10 pegs so that Jacksonian thing is ok as far as I care.

My brother was saying the same thing. "In addition to destroying the Democrat and GOP establishment . . . " WHERE? HOW? WHAT? By extending DACA? (which is inevitable btw)

Is my cable out? ;)

[Caballoflaco]

So you prefer jones over Moore?

What Roy Moore did to kick start his political career was no different to me than a judge putting up a plaque of Sharia Laws in a government courthouse. I want all Americans to be free to worship how they want with no mention of God or religion coming from government period. Moore was removed from office for refusing a lawful order to take down the Ten Commandments when he lost his court case.

I did not vote for the man, but I'll take two years of Jones, despite the fact it might cost some political setbacks. Why? Because I hope the loss encourages the Republican Party to run candidates that drop some of the "culture war" posturing that both sides use to distract Americans from real actual issues.

[RoyGBiv]

What Roy Moore did to kick start his political career was no different to me than a judge putting up a plaque of Sharia Laws in a government courthouse. I want all Americans to be free to worship how they want with no mention of God or religion coming from government period. Moore was removed from office for refusing a lawful order to take down the Ten Commandments when he lost his court case.

I did not vote for the man, but I'll take two years of Jones, despite the fact it might cost some political setbacks. Why? Because I hope the loss encourages the Republican Party to run candidates that drop some of the "culture war" posturing that both sides use to distract Americans from real actual issues.

Exactly.

I may have been unwilling to abstain from voting for Trump, but Moores loss makes the point at a smaller cost.

[CWM11B]

Sensei Question, as I don't know, but how is Trump responsible for the hike? I'm not aware of anything that has changed regarding the ACA.

[Drang]

If the GOP really cared they'd use this to start a movement to repeal the Seventeenth Amendment.

Ironically, it was implemented in Alabama before it went nationwide.

[TheNewbie]

What Roy Moore did to kick start his political career was no different to me than a judge putting up a plaque of Sharia Laws in a government courthouse. I want all Americans to be free to worship how they want with no mention of God or religion coming from government period. Moore was removed from office for refusing a lawful order to take down the Ten Commandments when he lost his court case.

I did not vote for the man, but I'll take two years of Jones, despite the fact it might cost some political setbacks. Why? Because I hope the loss encourages the Republican Party to run candidates that drop some of the "culture war" posturing that both sides use to distract Americans from real actual issues.

It's not exactly the same thing as the Sharia example. I am guessing you and our founders would have had very different views on things.

At least you admit you prefer the democrat. So many people who were conservative and would not vote for Trump would not admit they were helping the left and Hillary.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I'm not from Alabama but when i looked into it i'm OK with Doug Jones. He's a hunter and when asked about gun control he said he wants to enforce the laws we already have. Then again i'm a radical centrist so my views may be slanted.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm not from Alabama but when i looked into it i'm OK with Doug Jones. He's a hunter and when asked about gun control he said he wants to enforce the laws we already have. Then again i'm a radical centrist so my views may be slanted.

I just wish these guys would vote for what they are supposed to...benefit to their States and that States constituency. Like the Dem senators from Montana and West Virginia he will vote the way Pelosi and Schummer wants for their San Francisco’s and NY progressive agenda. He ll be just fine with a “assault weapons” ban, cuz no Fudd needs one to hunt....and he is a hunter.

[LockedBreech]

On Trump:
All economic indicators (stock market, job growth, unemployment) are pointing towards him doing a phenomenal job.
And you can prove this by how big a dip the market takes when there's news that looks bad for Trump.

No argument the economy is doing well. I disagree with Trump getting all the credit. When Obama left office unemployment was at 4.8%, currently 4.1%. The market had also been going up for 92 months when Trump took office. He definitely spiked the stock market significantly, but the economy was trucking along decently well.



On the foreign policy front our enemies have been quiet, our allies are finding their balls again and we've pulled out of shitty trade deals without repercussions.
Other countries may not like or fear us but they are respecting us as a nation again, even as they mutter under their breath what a buffoon Trump is.
Well... that buffoon just left you're brilliant leaders holding the bag on bullshit climate change initiatives and trade deals that would have shafted America.

On that I disagree entirely. Our biggest enemy is Russia, and the world is laughing as they watch Trump be easily manipulated by him. Despite near-unanimous federal agency agreement that Russia tampered with the election, Putin told Trump he didn't know about it and Trump indicated that he believed him, just like that. Believed that the former master spy who poisons his enemies that he was totally unaware of mass-scale election tampering going on under his authoritarian government's watch.

Being the single country that continues to deny and pull out of climate change measures isn't a leadership indicator, it's a science-denial indicator. I have not seen any respect or fear from world leaders, more an eye-rolling contempt. A matter of perspective, I suppose.

I confess that it's hard for me to objectively view his policies when he brings such indignity to the office. Presidents don't tweet shade at celebrities and athletes they don't like. It indicates a level of insecurity and pettiness I find very disturbing from my elected leader.

I don't want to derail the Moore thread any further but I appreciate having a brief civil back-and-forth, and I acknowledge your point that economically we're doing darn well right now.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I just wish these guys would vote for what they are supposed to...benefit to their States and that States constituency. Like the Dem senators from Montana and West Virginia he will vote the way Pelosi and Schummer wants for their San Francisco’s and NY progressive agenda. He ll be just fine with a “assault weapons” ban, cuz no Fudd needs one to hunt....and he is a hunter.

Oh me too man 100%. I hate that the Left tows the party line on guns. Hate it.

[Caballoflaco]

It's not exactly the same thing as the Sharia example. I am guessing you and our founders would have had very different views on things.

At least you admit you prefer the democrat. So many people who were conservative and would not vote for Trump would not admit they were helping the left and Hillary.

I may not have similar views to the founders, though I do think there's decent evidence many were Diests. I'm sure you'll disagree, but I wish the republicans would just drop the whole God thing. With the exception of extremist sects I've found exactly zero correlation between anybody's professed belief system and their integrity as human beings; especially politicians.

Disclaimer:
While I now consider myself a godless heathen, I find no fault or weakness in a man who finds a belief system that provides him with spiritual comfort. I also never voted for a candidate based on their religious beliefs, even during the 9 years I was of voting age and a devout "born again" Christian.

Edited for grammar and the clarity of thought this discussion and forum deserves.

[Nephrology]

Oh me too man 100%. I hate that the Left tows the party line on guns. Hate it.

Some of this (http://news.gallup.com/poll/196658/support-assault-weapons-ban-record-low.aspx) is changing.



Finally, the character of leaders absolutely influences what they do in office. Virtually EVERY organization that trains leaders lists character as a key attribute for effectiveness. Trump’s character is a big reason why many of you will be paying 30% higher healthcare premiums in 2018. I’d have thought that 16 years of Clinton-Obama polices would have settled that misguided notion.

Character for me trumps party affiliation by a country mile. If I cannot fundamentally respect someone's character, I will not trust their political agenda. As a relatively young person here (born in '88), my young life was dominated by the presidencies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama.

I found them both to be highly imperfect politicians, but I respected them both as human beings. I believed they were both genuinely trying their best in highly imperfect circumstances, even when I did not necessarily agree with their decisions or political beliefs. I also believe they both suffered from some normal human faults and flaws, but neither to a degree that I could not identify in myself.

Our current president? Jesus H Christ...

[blues]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

[RoyGBiv]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.
Agreed.
If you can't make a secular argument to support your position, you've lost me.
Of course many people are guided by principles and morals that derive from their religions... however... "Because God..." is never a reason for your opinion to trump mine.
There's a huge difference between an opinion that's formed from religious beliefs and forcing those with different beliefs to bend to your non-secular opinions in a secular debate.

[Caballoflaco]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

He's been doing this since I was knee-high to a Tenessee Walking Horse.

[RJ]

Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

Or the other way around, given the election result. :cool:

*RimShot*

I’m here all week. :)

[Sensei]

Sensei Question, as I don't know, but how is Trump responsible for the hike? I'm not aware of anything that has changed regarding the ACA.

Precisely. The failure to repeal the ACA was a failure of leadership. Primarily, a failure of Republican leadership in the Senate, but also a failure on Trump’s part. Some of Trump’s failure can be traced to painfully obvious character flaws such as over-promising on a level that calls his honesty into question - a key character trait. Watch this clip from 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/TPJfKdp3bDs
Does anyone seeing that actually believe that it is possible to provide 30+ MILLION uninsurables with BETTER care and LOWER costs? What is a Senator from a state like OH to believe when asked to vote on a bill that cuts Medicaid funding to their state when the nation’s CEO can’t be trusted to articulate a clear reason for the sacrifice or vision that doesn’t involve made-up BS?

Then, there is the issue of his very public (and needless) bickering with key stakeholders such as McCain and Flake. Name calling is juvenile; arguing who started it is infantile.


Jody is correct about Moore. He was a goofball at best, but I will take a goofball any day over a leftist.

Sensei you are right about character influencing voters. I just don't think it should. What they do in office policy wise is much more important to me than most of their skeletons are.

I didn’t say that character just influences voters; it mostly influences leaders. That is to say, leaders with obvious character flaws tend to quickly find themselves without willing followers.

[idahojess]

Maybe I'm just tired -- but it seems some in this thread are blaming Trump for Moore. Trump ain't perfect (far from it), but he endorsed Luther Strange in the primary. Does anyone think that Strange wouldn't have won?

I think the biggest issue in this race, and in a lot of races, is that the Democrat Opposition research seems to be a hell of a lot better than Republican research during the primaries. All the nasty stuff (including the infamous Billy Bush comments) gets brought out after the primaries and after Republicans are stuck with their crappy horse.

That said, I hope Doug Jones can be a blue dog democrat, and vote with his state on important issues. I have no problem with conservative democrats, they just don't seem to exist anymore (outside of Mason County, Washington...)

[gtae07]

The Republican problem seems to be that they are singularly unable to communicate effectively. They don't know how to make things understandable to people that don't already support them (a major part of it is they don't know anything about those people or what their concerns are), and they are incredibly bad at predicting and reacting to likely Democrat responses. And they fall for the same traps over and over again.

They need some kind of Red Team. Really, their entire marketing/publicity wing needs to be thrown out.

[CWM11B]

Sensei Thanks. Not sure I agree with you that that clip show POTUS to be less than honest. The R House and Senate had eight years to come up with a plan to present to a new president. Despite screaming about" repeal and replace", there was no plan to put on his desk after the election. Promise made, not ten minutes of work to deliver it in all that time. To me, that speaks to character far more than what Trump said on 60 minutes (another institution that plays fast and fancy with the truth, and who has very little credibility with me. I'll take the Bush memo for a hundred Alex) I also got a kick out of the indignation of the 60 minutes guy "Everybody's Covered...WHO PAYS FOR IT!?" when the media and every democrat fell all over themselves gushing about the free for everybody BHO promised was lauded, and any one who dared asked the question was racist/homophobic/misogynistic/heartless/wanted grandma to die etc.

POTUS Trump is FAR from perfect, and not who I supported until he was the candidate. I am neither R or D, and have not been affiliated with a party for decades. From my view, Trump had everything to lose and nothing to gain by embarking on this campaign. He was plenty powerful, and had he not entered the race and/or the country gone for HRC, he and all of the other mega wealthy would still be mega wealthy at the end of the day. Pointing out character flaws in the average elected official would be a full time job, and there are plenty of examples of outright lies boldly stated to the country on live TV on both sides of the aisle. I like what Trump is doing, if not the way he goes about it. If BHO had faced this kind of media scrutiny, I am confident a graveyard's worth of skeletons would have come tumbling out of his closets. The full court press against Trump would be called sedition if it was being done to an establishment favorite, not that it would ever occur. The guy has been in office less than a year, and because he hasn't fixed everything in ten months, he's got to go. The hypocrisy I watch play out daily truly astounds me, and that takes a lot to do (that comment is not directed towards the board, general statement of day to day media commentary.) I will say this; When Trump's time in office is over, when and under whatever circumstances, if the "establishment" gets back in power you can bet they will rig the system so they maintain it in perpetuity. And if that day comes, you can safely bet that a tremendous amount of individual liberty will go the way of the dodo.

To the subject of this thread, I agree Moore is a buffoon, but the big R machine tried to push to much outside influence on the folks of Alabama. No one likes that. It is probably more so in the south than any other region of the country due to history. I would be cautious about declaring Jones a lame duck who has no chance of being re-elected. The camel's nose is in the tent, and if we think the national Rs went full court against Moore, wait and see what the Ds will do to keep the seat. All just my opinion, worth what it cost you. If nothing else, this thread has been enlightening. And I continue to be impressed with the decorum surrounding the discussion here!

[Zincwarrior]

The Republican problem seems to be that they are singularly unable to communicate effectively. They don't know how to make things understandable to people that don't already support them (a major part of it is they don't know anything about those people or what their concerns are), and they are incredibly bad at predicting and reacting to likely Democrat responses. And they fall for the same traps over and over again.

They need some kind of Red Team. Really, their entire marketing/publicity wing needs to be thrown out.

I do not buy it. The primary voters picked a wack job who was literally kicked off the bench Twice, and who apparently likes to wave a revolver around. Plus he was wearing a cowboy hat. Only people from Texas, the Southwest, and Norte Mexico can wear a cowboy hat.

They can't spin their way out of nominating a wackjob pedophile and trying to justify with insane Bible references that are just wrong.

[blues]

The Republican problem seems to be that they are singularly unable to communicate effectively. They don't know how to make things understandable to people that don't already support them (a major part of it is they don't know anything about those people or what their concerns are), and they are incredibly bad at predicting and reacting to likely Democrat responses. And they fall for the same traps over and over again.

They need some kind of Red Team. Really, their entire marketing/publicity wing needs to be thrown out.

I think that's too simplistic and provides excuses for what basically comes down to lack of spine and character, as well as issues with the truth.
(This applies to both parties, not only the Republican party.)

How are you supposed to respect smarmy and wheedling piles of gelatinous material when they can't stick to their guns and convictions?

When you see guys like Ted Cruz and Ben Carson among others suffer the personal and professional insults that they did, come crawling back to their lord and master who played fast and loose with the truth about them, their families, and record...for crying out loud. At least the Bush family and Kasich never kowtowed.

When you support less than stellar people doing less than stellar acts, putting glossy wrapping paper on it doesn't really disguise the pile of crap that's inside the package. Endorsing a scumbag because its politically expedient is a shallow excuse and hardly a standard worth lauding.

America has been putting up with way too many boxes of coal now from both sides of the aisle and it's only fair when those delivering the coal get some up their own chutes.

I'll have nice things to say about pols and so-called leaders when they deserve to be lauded. Until then, they are alleged public servants who don't appear to be doing the job they were elected, and promised to do.

I was held to a much higher standard of behavior during my federal career. I don't see why the same standards shouldn't apply to the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government regardless of their party affiliation.

(I feel better now.)

[RoyGBiv]

I was held to a much higher standard of behavior during my federal career. I don't see why the same standards shouldn't apply to the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government regardless of their party affiliation.

(I feel better now.)
Because voters are easily influenced and have short attention spans.?? (What do I win?)

I like this quote:

“Is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?”
― Peter Hitchens

and Chomsky...

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”
― Noam Chomsky

[blues]

^^^Sad to say, there is much truth therein.^^^

[Robinson]

Agreed.
If you can't make a secular argument to support your position, you've lost me.
Of course many people are guided by principles and morals that derive from their religions... however... "Because God..." is never a reason for your opinion to trump mine.
There's a huge difference between an opinion that's formed from religious beliefs and forcing those with different beliefs to bend to your non-secular opinions in a secular debate.

Exactly.

On the other hand if God exists, he isn't subject to man's idiocy. Which only furthers your point.

[blues]

Exactly.

On the other hand if God exists, he isn't subject to man's idiocy. Which only furthers your point.

Unless he was created by man.

(No offense to anyone's belief system intended. Speaking purely from a philosophical point of view. This has, of course, been debated for ages by minds much greater than our own.)

[ragnar_d]

I was held to a much higher standard of behavior during my federal career. I don't see why the same standards shouldn't apply to the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government regardless of their party affiliation.

(I feel better now.)
This right here. While never being in federal service, I know several people who hold clearances for their positions. Most of them have said that they would be stripped of their clearances and fired (or worse) for some of the crap that our "public servants" get away with on a regular basis. Hell, our former President probably would have had trouble getting a Secret or TS clearance yet he got the keys to the nukes.

Hell, even in the private sector if be looking for a new job if I did some of the crap that elected officials get a pass on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RoyGBiv]

Unless he was created by man.

(No offense to anyone's belief system intended. Speaking purely from a philosophical point of view. This has, of course, been debated for ages by minds much greater than our own.)
Your new handle: Higgs Boson ;)

[Robinson]

This has, of course, been debated for ages by minds much greater than our own.)

In my case that ain't a high bar. :)

[gtae07]

I do not buy it. The primary voters picked a wack job who was literally kicked off the bench Twice, and who apparently likes to wave a revolver around. Plus he was wearing a cowboy hat. Only people from Texas, the Southwest, and Norte Mexico can wear a cowboy hat.

They can't spin their way out of nominating a wackjob pedophile and trying to justify with insane Bible references that are just wrong.

I was talking less about Moore (and Trump) and more the party in general, over the last several years. Think back to the Obamacare debacle, and the supposed "war on women". Or just about any gun rights issue (one could say the same for most 2A-supporting organizations). Or taxes. Economics. Immigration.

All they can manage to do is spit out the standard traditional talking points, and when the left comes out with cries of racist/sexist/(fill in the blank)ist, or you hate (group), as they inevitably do... the Republicans have nothing. They know it's coming and they do nothing about it. They don't fire back with anything but "am not!"

And then, of course, if they somehow manage to win an election, too often they stand there like the dog that just caught the car. They have no ability to execute. It's like they're scared of upsetting the Democrats...



Own goals like Moore are another matter. How in the hell he even made it into the primary is beyond me.

[Jaywalker]

Own goals like Moore are another matter. How in the hell he even made it into the primary is beyond me.
GOP's version of identity politics: "I'm more conservative than the other candidate."

[Sensei]

How in the hell he even made it into the primary is beyond me.

Here let me help ;). There was a crowed Republican Primary in AL a few months ago that contained some candidates who were conservative, moderate, establishment, and then there was a clown. The conservative, moderates, etc. couldn’t keep up with the clown who was sucking all of the media oxygen from the race since the liberal talking heads wanted to serve his dumb ass up on a platter in the general election. This should be sounding familiar by now, by the way.

So, when it came time for the elections, the reputable candidates divided the votes leaving the clown with a plurality of Republican support in the early elections. This was mainly due to the clown’s fanatical core of supporters who were more concerned with sending a message to those who they blame for their life’s predicament, rather than advancing a conservative agenda. I know, I know the deja vu is killing me too.

Unfortunately for this clown, he was running against a reputable candidate instead of a corrupt hag in the general election. So, homie got his ass handed to him.

[blues]

https://patrick.net/content/uploads/2017/05/moses_jesus.jpg

"So then his wife says that they had a 'Jew' lawyer and I'm like, 'Duh!'...I think you got a little bit more than that, lady! Seriously, you can't make this stuff up."

[Joe in PNG]

Here let me help ;). There was a crowed Republican Primary in AL a few months ago that contained some candidates who were conservative, moderate, establishment, and then there was a clown. The conservative, moderates, etc. couldn’t keep up with the clown who was sucking all of the media oxygen from the race since the liberal talking heads wanted to serve his dumb ass up on a platter in the general election. This should be sounding familiar by now, by the way.

So, when it came time for the elections, the reputable candidates divided the votes leaving the clown with a plurality of Republican support in the early elections. This was mainly due to the clown’s fanatical core of supporters who were more concerned with sending a message to those who they blame for their life’s predicament, rather than advancing a conservative agenda. I know, I know the deja vu is killing me too.

Unfortunately for this clown, he was running against a reputable candidate instead of a corrupt hag in the general election. So, homie got his ass handed to him.

Expect to see more of this in the future.

[blues]

Here let me help ;). There was a crowed Republican Primary in AL a few months ago that contained some candidates who were conservative, moderate, establishment, and then there was a clown. The conservative, moderates, etc. couldn’t keep up with the clown who was sucking all of the media oxygen from the race since the liberal talking heads wanted to serve his dumb ass up on a platter in the general election. This should be sounding familiar by now, by the way.

So, when it came time for the elections, the reputable candidates divided the votes leaving the clown with a plurality of Republican support in the early elections. This was mainly due to the clown’s fanatical core of supporters who were more concerned with sending a message to those who they blame for their life’s predicament, rather than advancing a conservative agenda. I know, I know the deja vu is killing me too.

Unfortunately for this clown, he was running against a reputable candidate instead of a corrupt hag in the general election. So, homie got his ass handed to him.

Somehow the word "parable" comes to mind...

[ragnar_d]

And then, of course, if they somehow manage to win an election, too often they stand there like the dog that just caught the car. They have no ability to execute. It's like they're scared of upsetting the Democrats...
I honestly think they prefer to be the minority party. Don't have to deliver anything, just stand there and obstruct the other side when they can and howl when the other team have enough people to run roughshod over the minority party. That way they can shout about "fighting the big government meanies" and "standing up for conservative values" on your way to cigars and scotch with the other big government hacks.

Better for fundraising too.

[TAZ]

Here let me help ;). There was a crowed Republican Primary in AL a few months ago that contained some candidates who were conservative, moderate, establishment, and then there was a clown. The conservative, moderates, etc. couldn’t keep up with the clown who was sucking all of the media oxygen from the race since the liberal talking heads wanted to serve his dumb ass up on a platter in the general election. This should be sounding familiar by now, by the way.

So, when it came time for the elections, the reputable candidates divided the votes leaving the clown with a plurality of Republican support in the early elections. This was mainly due to the clown’s fanatical core of supporters who were more concerned with sending a message to those who they blame for their life’s predicament, rather than advancing a conservative agenda. I know, I know the deja vu is killing me too.

Unfortunately for this clown, he was running against a reputable candidate instead of a corrupt hag in the general election. So, homie got his ass handed to him.

Throw in some DNC voters in the primaries and you have the perfect storm of GOP stupid. This is why the clown car primaries need to stop for the GOP or any other conservative effort.