Playing with 9mm major

[5pins]

I’ve recently started trying some new 9 major loads for my Glock “race gun”. I came across an article in Handguns magazine with load data using CFE Pistol and Auto Comp.


Making Major with Hodgdon CFE Pistol Powder (http://www.handgunsmag.com/competition/making-major-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/)


The data in the article shows velocity approaching 1500fps and 1400fps using the Hornady HAP bullets in both 115gr and 125gr. This is out of a 5-inch barrel in the pistol the author was using. This level of velocity out of a 9mm is pretty extreme and loading bullets to this extream should be done carefully and in a firearm capable of handling it safely. My Glock 17 has aftermarket barrel with a compensator and is fully capable of shooting major loads but it’s still a little unnerving shooting a nine with loads this hot.


All of this got me thinking, what if I used a real hollow point and not the HAP bullet? The HAP bullet is a hollow point bullet but it wasn’t made for expansion, it was designed for competition. Think of it a less expensive XTP.


A short time ago I was trying some 124gr JHP’s I had bought form Everglades ammunition and I had been very impressed with their performance. This bullet did very well in bare, clothed, and four layers of denim gel and felt it would be the perfect candidate.


9mm 124gr JHP RN Bullets Version 2 (http://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/9mm-124gr-jhp-rn-v2.html)


The first round in this test had a velocity of 1442fps!! I had expected the bullet to be completely disintegrated but imagine my surprise when I found it completely intact with the jacket still attached. The second round hit the block at 1411fps and performed very much like the first. Both rounds hit the table the block was sitting on at about halfway down the block. The offset from the dot scope was a little more then I thought at 10 feet causing me to hit low on the block. The expansion was .56 and .60 inches.


The last round was fired out of an HK USP with a 4.25-inch barrel. I felt the HK would handle the higher presser safely and I wasn’t concerned. As one would expect velocity was lower at 1350fps and it penetrated to 14.5 inches. This bullet expanded to .66 inches.


http://i.imgur.com/EDb40v4m.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/EDb40v4)


http://i.imgur.com/yw1SaFXm.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/yw1SaFX)


A friend of mine had just received some pulled Speer Gold Dot bullets and asked if I would be interested in trying them out and see how they would do in gel. He gave me some 124 and 115gr bullets to try. The first 115gr round hit at 1509fps and penetrated to 12.5 inches and expanded to .68 inches. The second round was fired into heavy clothing covered gel and had a velocity of 1499fps. It expanded to .59 inches and penetrated to 15 inches.
For the 124gr bullets, I back off the load a bit from the Everglades bullets I tried the day before because they seemed a little hot. The first bullet in the bare gel hit at 1342fps and traveled 14.75 inches through the gel and expanded to .61 inches. Round two impacted at 1354fps through the heavy clothing and penetrated to 16 inches and expanded to .53 inches. All rounds were fired out of the Glock 17 with the 5-inch KKM barrel.


http://i.imgur.com/aIzKjyXm.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/aIzKjyX)


http://i.imgur.com/NrIO4ZBm.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/NrIO4ZB)


http://i.imgur.com/nC5Ikdym.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/nC5Ikdy)


http://i.imgur.com/8KRHu9Fm.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/8KRHu9F)


Something I should note about the expansion of the recovered bullets. You could say that the bullets at this velocity “over expanded”. In other words, the recovered diameter was smaller than the maximum diameter of the bullet as it traveled through the gel block. Because of the extremely high velocity, the bullets folded back on themselves reducing the size.
I came away even more impressed with the Everglades bullets and plan on testing them further using more sane load data.

[Tokarev]

Wow. That's crazy stuff. How's the brass look? Any huge bulge at the feedramp?

Everglades has a "factory" major load using a 124gr JHP. Not something I'd want to shoot in a stock handgun although it might be okay in a properly built 1911 with a strong recoil spring.

http://www.evergladesammo.com/ammunition/handgun-ammunition/9mm-major-power-factor-124gr-jhp-ammo-new.html

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[1986s4]

You seem like an experienced handloader so I am assuming you use new, strong brass. I learned long ago to never pick up brass after a USPSA match. Brass used for 9 major, despite resizing, was never quite right after it's traumatic use.... That brass would tie up my old HK P-30 and the slide would have to forced open.

For s....ts and giggles I sometimes load up some major for my Colt .38 super. So far I've just used the 115gr. HAP but I have some Precision Delta 124gr. ball to try.

[Tokarev]

You seem like an experienced handloader so I am assuming you use new, strong brass. I learned long ago to never pick up brass after a USPSA match. Brass used for 9 major, despite resizing, was never quite right after it's traumatic use.... That brass would tie up my old HK P-30 and the slide would have to forced open.

For s....ts and giggles I sometimes load up some major for my Colt .38 super. So far I've just used the 115gr. HAP but I have some Precision Delta 124gr. ball to try.I remember seeing range brass from when the PF was 175. Some of that stuff it was hard to tell where the primer ended and the case began...

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[Odin Bravo One]

I’ve still got a few thousand rounds left that I’ve been giving to JRC for his daughter to rip apart and use the projectiles and primed cases. I found Downloading 10mm to be more practical than uploading 9mm. But since I stopped shooting matches years ago, I have yet to find a practical purpose for either.

[1986s4]

When I shoot USPSA I shoot production. I just like to experiment with the super. But I think there is a greater margin of safety with the larger case and slower powder.

[5pins]

You seem like an experienced handloader so I am assuming you use new, strong brass. I learned long ago to never pick up brass after a USPSA match. Brass used for 9 major, despite resizing, was never quite right after it's traumatic use.... That brass would tie up my old HK P-30 and the slide would have to forced open.

For s....ts and giggles I sometimes load up some major for my Colt .38 super. So far I've just used the 115gr. HAP but I have some Precision Delta 124gr. ball to try.

I used once fired Speer nickel plated brass.

[1986s4]

I remember seeing range brass from when the PF was 175. Some of that stuff it was hard to tell where the primer ended and the case began...

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It's just amazing to me that a 175 pf can be extracted from a 9x19 case and safely enough that guys use it in competition.

[Tokarev]

It's just amazing to me that a 175 pf can be extracted from a 9x19 case and safely enough that guys use it in competition.I don't remember my USPSA Open history but wasn't 175pf 9mm banned for awhile? And then later the PF was lowered to 165 to allow guys to use 9mm without blowing guns up as often.

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[ranger]

I don't remember my USPSA Open history but wasn't 175pf 9mm banned for awhile? And then later the PF was lowered to 165 to allow guys to use 9mm without blowing guns up as often.

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Yes, during the 175PF days, 9mm Major was banned. It was a time of great experimentation (before the days of the S_I high cap 2011s and the Paras). 9mm Major at 175 was tough on Browning HiPowers, various versions of CZs, early Glocks, etc. This was before the proliferation of ramped barrels for 1911s also. Not as much choice or technology for powders also. We were using 9mm brass with 160 grain lead bullets loaded to 38 Super length in 1911s with 9mm barrels throated to the longer "9mm" loads (because 38 Super brass was hard to get and more expensive) but we wanted capacity so we moved to the various hicap 9s and raced them with mixed results. When 9mm Major was banned we moved to 9x21, etc. I moved to a Springfield Armory P9 (CZ75 clone) in 9x21 during the "no 9mm Major/175 PF days. Smartest thing I ever did was leave the "race gun" phase and move to Production with a G34 when Production started.

[1slow]

I seem to remember an old article Colonel Cooper did where they were using cut down rifle brass, (.556 x 45 / .223 brass I think), to get a hot 9mm. Greater case web strength was the gain with rifle brass.
Cut down .308 was used in the early days of the .45 Win Mag as well for similar reasons.

[Tokarev]

I seem to remember an old article Colonel Cooper did where they were using cut down rifle brass, (.556 x 45 / .223 brass I think), to get a hot 9mm. Greater case web strength was the gain with rifle brass.
Cut down .308 was used in the early days of the .45 Win Mag as well for similar reasons.Wasn't the 308 based 45 called the 45 Detonics? Maybe I'm getting some of these old Wildcats confused.

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[1slow]

.45 win Mag was a longer case, 230gr @ 1460. LAR Grizzlys shot these . Think 1911 on steroids.

[Tokarev]

.45 win Mag was a longer case, 230gr @ 1460. LAR Grizzlys shot these . Think 1911 on steroids.


451 Detonics Magnum

http://www.z3bigdaddy.com/site8/page44.html

[1986s4]

I seem to remember an old article Colonel Cooper did where they were using cut down rifle brass, (.556 x 45 / .223 brass I think), to get a hot 9mm. Greater case web strength was the gain with rifle brass.
Cut down .308 was used in the early days of the .45 Win Mag as well for similar reasons.

I recall an article in the American Rifleman regarding the 9 x 23 Winchester derived from cut down .223 brass for the case web strength you mention.

[MAXX]

I've done some pretty extensive testing and competition shooting with the new NAS3 steel cases. These are really great for added safety margin and also running heavy bullets. I've loaded 125s to 1600fps and the way up to 180gr @ 1150fps. The thing with 9mm major is having a good chamber, a comp to slow the slide speed down (or heavy 24lb recoil spring), and methodical handloading procedure. It's fun to play with, but you will eventually start breaking thing like locking blocks, lugs etc etc. Most of this madness has been directed toward bowling pin competition. I have had some very good success with heavy 9. Longshot and Autocomp rock for 9mm major.

22677
22679
22680

[HCM]

I seem to remember an old article Colonel Cooper did where they were using cut down rifle brass, (.556 x 45 / .223 brass I think), to get a hot 9mm. Greater case web strength was the gain with rifle brass.
Cut down .308 was used in the early days of the .45 Win Mag as well for similar reasons.

9mm Super Cooper - it was cut long than standard 9mm though. I think it was an early 9x23 wildcat.

[JAD]

9mm Super Cooper - it was cut long than standard 9mm though. I think it was an early 9x23 wildcat.

It was .223 cut to super length and reamed. Juuuuust a little tedious.

[Hambo]

It was .223 cut to super length and reamed. Juuuuust a little tedious.

There are usually good reasons why some things don't catch on.

[bfoosh006]

https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-major-147gr-jhp-elite.html

BTW, Atlanta Arms sells a 147gr JHP "Major" load as well.

Out of my 16" Colt pattern carbine it chrono'd at 1348... and you could tell it was pushing considerably more pressure.

160fps faster then the next closed round, the 147gr HST +P

[Tokarev]

Somewhat related.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/how-to-use-9-major-in-a-short-barrel/

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