870 detachable mag

[ASH556]

So it would seem Remington will be releasing a detachable magazine system for the 870. Betcha $20 it doesn’t work.

22124
https://i.imgur.com/KklhnjX.jpg

[Lester Polfus]

Hey! I know, let's pump a bunch of R&D money into something that has 1) never worked well for everybody else that's tried it and 2) sold in minuscule numbers, because, it'll be different this time!

In all fairness, it must be pretty hard for gun-makers to come up with new product ideas right now.

[Joe in PNG]

Don't worry, the Derpster market will eat this up.

[45dotACP]

Gon' be a derpster fire

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[willie]

That shit immediately destroys the handiness of a short barrel shotgun.

[HopetonBrown]

This guy is former Army SF and usually does pretty decent vids.

https://youtu.be/M-AMb5jtkl8

[Lester Polfus]

That shit immediately destroys the handiness of a short barrel shotgun.

This. One of the main reasons why I liked a 14" to 18" Remington 870 instead of a 10" AR or an Mp-5 for tight spaces like trailer homes, boats, and ships was the overall footprint is smaller due to no magazine sticking down, despite similar overall lengths.

Besides, I've never heard of magazine fed shotgun working worth a damn.

[Screwball]

Death rattle of Remington? Hope not, but are you kidding me... a factory detachable magazine 870? Someone in R&D needs to lay off the crack pipe.

I actually just ordered the extension and tools to add another round in my TAC-14. That is 5+1, without a thing dangling below the receiver.

[Lester Polfus]

I bet they sell a ton of them.

I bet they do too, and if it works, bully for them. But if we start seeing you tube videos of guys stuffing Estate bidshot into them and the guns choking, that won't be good for big green.

[ASH556]

I bet they do too, and if it works, bully for them. But if we start seeing you tube videos of guys stuffing Estate bidshot into them and the guns choking, that won't be good for big green.

My M1 eats Estate birdshot like candy, lol.

[Lon]

My box mag fed MKA1919 doesn't like Estate brand. Love's Cabela's Herter's line though.

[pangloss]

That shit immediately destroys the handiness of a short barrel shotgun.

You mean you aren't pining for a TAC-14 with a detachable mag?!? I really couldn't believe this when I saw it this afternoon. Right now Remington can't make a decent version of a the shotgun they've been making for ~65 years and they spend effort pulling a stunt like this.

[Doug]

Don't worry, the Derpster market will eat this up.

Bet some company will make a bullpup stock for it...


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[willie]

I'm as disappointed in Remington's effort as you are, pangloss. I used to say that anybody could work on an 870 but now realize that just anybody can't make a reliable specimen. I wonder if Remington realizes that the big magazine introduces another variable into the mix? Probably not. Law enforcement agencies will have zero interest in this offering. Bubba might, but even he is informed enough(maybe)to see limitations in the versions mentioned.

[okie john]

Bet some company will make a bullpup stock for it...


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Top folder.


Okie John

[Lester Polfus]

Top folder.


Okie John

With a breaching standoff that looks like fangs.

[Joe in PNG]

With a breaching standoff that looks like fangs.

And a comp with a cutout shaped like a biohazard symbol

[Willard]

They need a .410 variant so it will be compatible with the Taurus Judge or S&W Governor.

[FNFAN]

They need a .410 variant so it will be compatible with the Taurus Judge or S&W Governor.

Then you could put a small electric motor on it and..............

[willie]

Don't forget a bayonet lug. Did I tell ya'll that the fit and finish on my S&W Governor far exceeds that of the Taurus Judge? :cool:

[Holmes375]

A detachable mag fed 870 ain't shit without a chainsaw bayonet.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Mag fed pump shotguns (I know, I just don't want to have to type out detachable box magazine every time) are super common in Canada because of a quirk of our gun laws - sort of the way we don't have "arm braces" for AR15s here. No point; there's no laws that make that useful. We do have laws that make manual action magazine-fed guns desirable for regulatory purposes.

Anyway, I'll tell you what I like about mag fed shotguns: all the same stuff I like about mag fed rifles. It does cut down on the quick handling, but you get used to it. I shoot a Valtro PM5 and it works very well.

Whether Remington can make it work I couldn't say, although I've noticed pump gun mags seem less finicky than semi-auto mags, presumably because you can apply more force, more slowly, and aren't just balancing spring rates to make it work.

I would consider one of the bird's head models as a vehicle gun because, being subject to Canadian gun laws, I have to transport guns unloaded. I guess you could side-load a standard bird's head if you kept a couple of rounds clipped to your visor or what have you, but personally as someone who side-loads infrequently, and inserts mags very frequently, I feel like my odds are better with the box mag.

I guess it's also true that even when I have sideloaded shotguns it's been full-length guns, not short-barrelled ones. I think my odds of getting my left hand in front of the muzzle are higher off a side load...this may be wrong and I have not tried it. But I would definitely have to work that reload quite a bit to feel safe, and I think I would have to stop going over the top to sideload, which maybe I should do anyway - currently I do it based on body position. If it's easier for me to get the shell in by going overtop, typically I've popped in the shell with my fingers and slid the pump ahead from above, pivoting my hand at the end of the cycle. I would never do that with a short gun, although maybe it's just a bad habit I should get rid of anyway.


Anyway I'm sure there's a substantial derp market for these but I think there's a potential application for certain jurisdictions. Some of that may overlap with derpage, of course...nobody would do it but technically you could open carry those bird's heads in Canada. I won't get into a huge thing on gun laws here but the only requirement for transporting them would be that they be unloaded.

[Hambo]

Mag fed pump shotguns (I know, I just don't want to have to type out detachable box magazine every time)

DBM, bro. ;)

[Bigghoss]

They've even managed to make them look lame, too.

[Gadfly]

Part of me wants to like it because "quick reloads". But the rest of me thinks... no drop in rounds for a Tac load, no rack and roll for select a slug, no way to simply top off one or two at a time....

It would be re learning the shotgun almost from scratch.


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[Hambo]

This guy is former Army SF and usually does pretty decent vids.

https://youtu.be/M-AMb5jtkl8




Part of me wants to like it because "quick reloads". But the rest of me thinks... no drop in rounds for a Tac load, no rack and roll for select a slug, no way to simply top off one or two at a time....

It would be re learning the shotgun almost from scratch.

Yeah, all of that, plus carrying an enormous spare mag instead of the few rounds I might need. I'm out.

[BillSWPA]

No plans to be the beta tester but I do hope it works.



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[farscott]

The bird hunter in me wonders how a 870DM Wingmaster with the three-round magazine will swing on passing/crossing shots. Weight should be between the hands, and the DM magazine definitely does that. The same part of me figures that magazine release will snag quite often.

[willie]

To be bird/duck legal, the mag would have to be a 2 round job. 2+1=3.

[Poconnor]

No arm brace? I hope for them it works. I volunteer to test fire for them. Give me three shotguns and a pallet of ammo and I’ll tell you how it goes. I wish they sold the tac14 without the mag dimples. Not a big deal but I didn’t need to waste my time on bumping them out.

[Screwball]

It would be re learning the shotgun almost from scratch.

Best statement for my view on the subject...

[Lon]

It would be re learning the shotgun almost from scratch.


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For you it would. But I imagine their target customer is the AR or AK familiar gun guy that’s never owned a shotgun before and doesn’t know any better. For them it’s just another DBM fed bang stick.

[serialsolver]

I don’t know. I guess I’m cautiously interested.

I hate the muzzle heaviness of the shotgun.

Unloading a shotgun is a pain.

I’ve seen a bunch of people fumbling tac loads, drop rounds and almost dropping the shotgun.

I’ve seen a bunch of shotgun rounds messed up from riding in patrol cars.

I think the mag eliminates some problems.


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[Jim Watson]

Maybe it is because the 7615 pump assault rifle is selling so well.

[AdioSS]

I wonder what genius decided to put the mag release in front of the magazine where the hand cycling the action is likely to hit it?
The 12GA AK crowd has done a pretty decent job with mag releases on the back of the magazine for years.

[TCinVA]

Port loading...or as I prefer to refer to it, emergency loading...a shotgun is a rather important and useful capability. It's rather difficult to port load a shotgun with a box magazine.

If the magazine is out, the shell can just fall through the bottom of the receiver. The only way to do it is to leave the magazine in, conduct the emergency load, then swap the mag.

Of course, to accomplish that you'd need to get the shell in just so because there's no more lifter to put the shell into proper position and the magazine will not automatically do that for you. Looking at pictures the Remington's follower seems like it might allow that, but I'd have to really run one to be sure.

The inability to perform a quick emergency reload would be the primary reason that a mag fed 870 does not excite me.

I can already reload a shotgun fast. They are, in fact, *really* fast to reload if properly set up. They are slower to load to FULL CAPACITY, but not slower to reload to EFFECTIVE FIGHTING CAPABILITY.

Making the shotgun mag fed makes it a bit quicker to load to full capacity, but slower and more difficult to load to effective fighting capability.

After kicking this around a bit with others it looks to me like the primary *practical* benefit would be creating a simplified manual of arms for the shotgun. If I'm charged with getting a bunch of police officers competent with the shotgun with minimal time, I can teach them to run the gun essentially like a big MP5...on empty open action, strip magazine, insert new magazine, close action and go to work. Of course, how many agencies will be buying these things? I doubt many will be interested. I could be wrong.

The simpler manual of arms would be useful for shotgun newbies who are trying to use a shotgun for home defense. I don't have to explain how to remove shells from the tubular magazine using the shell stops...just pop the magazine out and clear the chamber and the weapon is good. To set up for defensive use drop the hammer on an empty chamber, insert magazine and now it's in home/closet/cruiser ready.

It's a completely different animal and I can see circumstances where that different animal would offer something to the potential buyer.

For those of us who have invested the time into learning to operate the traditionally set up shotgun, though, I don't think it offers us anything significant beyond perhaps the ability to eventually put a 20 round magazine on it...and that's not something I'm likely to want unless I take up 3 gun.

[BillSWPA]

Shotguns are the type of gun with which I have the least training and experience, so I could be wrong, but isn’t the biggest problem with a detachable box magazine fed shotgun the fact that the shells can potentially get slightly crushed or otherwise damaged in the magazine?

If the magazine can protect the shells adequately, then I would have a hard time understanding the other objections. We all use rifles and handguns that allow us to get a full reload in the gun with a minimum number of actions. Why would the ability to do so with a shotgun be less advantageous? As pointed out above, changing ammo types would seem to be simplified.



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[Holmes375]

Shotguns are the type of gun with which I have the least training and experience, so I could be wrong, but isn’t the biggest problem with a detachable box magazine fed shotgun the fact that the shells can potentially get slightly crushed or otherwise damaged in the magazine?

If the magazine can protect the shells adequately, then I would have a hard time understanding the other objections. We all use rifles and handguns that allow us to get a full reload in the gun with a minimum number of actions. Why would the ability to do so with a shotgun be less advantageous? As pointed out above, changing ammo types would seem to be simplified.



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I don't run a shotgun dry if possible. Easy to keep it fed as the event progresses. That said, I can see some applications where a DBM 12g might be useful but only if it equals the reliability of my tube feeders.

[serialsolver]

The shotgun rounds that are in patrol cars stored upright take a beating especially the bottom one or the first around up. The crimp comes undone and the buffer begins to leak. I frequently had to replace the buckshot in the patrol shotguns and disassemble the shotgun to clean the buffer material out of the action.

I can see a shotgun with a detachable box magazine as a plus for law enforcement. The dbm would make the administrative handling of the shotgun easier and prevent the above listed problem.

IF the dbm works.


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[ST911]

Like the 7615P, the time for viability of a detachable 870 magazine has long passed.

[olstyn]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

[Lon]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

Saigas can be finicky with different ammo. So can Vepr’s and MKA1919’s. Semi’s won’t run specialty rounds like bean bags.

[gtae07]

After kicking this around a bit with others it looks to me like the primary *practical* benefit would be creating a simplified manual of arms for the shotgun. If I'm charged with getting a bunch of police officers competent with the shotgun with minimal time, I can teach them to run the gun essentially like a big MP5...on empty open action, strip magazine, insert new magazine, close action and go to work. Of course, how many agencies will be buying these things? I doubt many will be interested. I could be wrong.

The simpler manual of arms would be useful for shotgun newbies who are trying to use a shotgun for home defense. I don't have to explain how to remove shells from the tubular magazine using the shell stops...just pop the magazine out and clear the chamber and the weapon is good. To set up for defensive use drop the hammer on an empty chamber, insert magazine and now it's in home/closet/cruiser ready.

As I remarked in another thread, my first (and really, only) time using a shotgun was the 3-gun match I shot in October. So I'm a complete shotgun newbie. And the whole time I was fumbling with it (not helped by it really needing to be broken in) I thought to myself "my God, this thing is a right pain in the ass". I used the pistol over the shotgun whenever I could because it was faster for me to reload. I could miss half the shots and do reloads from slide lock, and still finish faster than trying to feed those damned shells into the shotgun.

For someone like me who can barely scrape enough time together to practice semi-regularly with a pistol and runs the rifle stuff "cold" because, well, it's sorta kinda maybe close enough to pistols and I did a lot of rifle shooting years ago, dealing with the shotgun is a big "WTF mate?" I could feel my hairs turning gray while trying to reload, and watching the video it's even slower. It really made me sit there and think "why would anyone bother with the damned things if they didn't absolutely truly have to?"

A reliable box-magazine-fed shotgun would be a wonderful invention for people like me.

[Lester Polfus]

I'm a total shotgun novice, so maybe I'm way off base here, but this seems like an odd item to me. What's the appeal of this vs a Saiga? Why bother having a DBM if you're not going to also have semi-auto operation?

I feel compelled to point out that the Saiga is made by godless communists.:cool:

[TCinVA]

Shotguns are the type of gun with which I have the least training and experience, so I could be wrong, but isn’t the biggest problem with a detachable box magazine fed shotgun the fact that the shells can potentially get slightly crushed or otherwise damaged in the magazine?


Shells are probably more likely to be damaged riding around in a cruiser muzzle up over time than in a box magazine.



We all use rifles and handguns that allow us to get a full reload in the gun with a minimum number of actions. Why would the ability to do so with a shotgun be less advantageous? As pointed out above, changing ammo types would seem to be simplified.


A simpler manual of arms may well be worthwhile for many.

A deer hunter who finds that the deer are out farther than he thought they would be might find it easier to eject the shell in his chamber, remove the magazine, and put in a new magazine with slugs.

A police officer who arrives on scene and recognizes a need for slugs would certainly find it easier to put in a slug magazine as they are getting the gun into action.

My primary use for a shotgun, though, is home defense. In that role I don't have a real need to change ammunition types. I don't even keep slugs in the ammunition carriers on my defensive guns.

There are certainly some advantages to a box magazine design that are worth serious consideration for someone who needs/wants to use a shotgun...but those advantages come with costs.

I also wonder about common practice...how many people (police or defense minded citizen) are going to keep a spare magazine handy for that quicker capacity reload? The shotgun has typically been a grab-and-go weapon and best advice has been to keep extra ammunition attached to the gun so it goes where you go in case you need it. Given the size and bulk of shotgun magazines, how many people are going to be grabbing that second magazine?

Personally if I were handed one of these tomorrow I'd immediately velcro a Vang Comp side saddle to it and I'd just rely on port loading if I have exhausted the ammunition supply in the magazine. That's a hell of a lot easier to accomplish than finding a way to accommodate a second magazine for this weapon.



A reliable box-magazine-fed shotgun would be a wonderful invention for people like me.

I think that's the primary practical benefit this offers in the context of defensive use of the shotgun. It makes the weapon simpler for folks who have not yet invested the time and effort into learning the quirks and peculiarities of running the shotgun.

And I'm cool with that. I don't expect everyone else on the planet to spend as much time working with dummy rounds as I have to figure out how to use the shotgun.

In the old days, everybody grew up using a shotgun. Even the city mice would go out and bust clays from time to time. Today the number of people looking to defend themselves who have practical experience with the shotgun is pretty small. Those people may well find that the mag-fed repeating claymore is a much more approachable tool for their purposes.

[Hambo]

Many members here have posted their shotgun fight experiences. I only recall one guy saying he did a select slug in a fight, and I don't think anyone needed more than two rounds to end the fight.

Reloads in competition are a thing, but remember there is no bolt hold open on a pump shotgun. You fire until you get a click, then reload. With an M2 or similar you keep jamming 2-4 rounds in the tube anytime you're not shooting. You would also start with 6-7 rounds in the 870 vs. a long tube with 8+.

[Edster]

I will be watching for reports on how well this works.

I agree 100% for those trained to run a traditional pump shotgun, this might require a pretty radical rethinking of technique.

I also agree it probably impacts the handiness of the shotgun. I'm not concerned about having the weight further back but that long magazine hanging below might get awkward. I don't think the placement of the mag release would bother me.

If it works well, maybe techniques can/should be updated.

[gtae07]

I think that's the primary practical benefit this offers in the context of defensive use of the shotgun. It makes the weapon simpler for folks who have not yet invested the time and effort into learning the quirks and peculiarities of running the shotgun.

And I'm cool with that. I don't expect everyone else on the planet to spend as much time working with dummy rounds as I have to figure out how to use the shotgun.

In the old days, everybody grew up using a shotgun. Even the city mice would go out and bust clays from time to time. Today the number of people looking to defend themselves who have practical experience with the shotgun is pretty small. Those people may well find that the mag-fed repeating claymore is a much more approachable tool for their purposes.

I'm under the impression that quite a lot of people now use some kind of rifle (i.e. AR-15 variant) as their go-to long gun for defensive purposes, rather than a shotgun. I know that would be the case for me if I had the funding to set a dedicated rifle up how I'd like.