Travel with SIRT pistol

[brett]

Has anyone here traveled internationally with their SIRT pistol? I'm headed to Germany on Tuesday, and would very much like to maintain my training regimen but am loath to subject myself to the potential hassles. Experiences? Tips? Thoughts?

[secondstoryguy]

Put an airsoft sticker on it and tell them it's an airsoft gun.

[ToddG]

Internationally? No.

Domestically, I have one every time I go to a class. I've been yelled at for declaring it as a gun and yelled at for not declaring it. I've been delayed -- with police presence -- once for having it outside the locked container that I use for my real guns.

Now, I either (a) attach a note to the SIRT saying it's not a real gun or (b) just lock it up in the same Pelican case as the real pistols.

[abu fitna]

I used to travel extensively with non-firearms training equipment, including a Red Cell / force on force profile, as checked baggage. (Red gun, airsoft, and simulator devices among other tools). I did find that good documentation (on USG letterhead) helped, but not nearly as much as one might think. And the inconsistencies between airports and screening leads really did mean that "treat as firearm" versus "treat as not firearm" was basically a roll of the dice. Even with a direct hotline back to the relevant folks' watch center, this caused more issues than were ever comfortable. (And for folks on the team that may not have had as much experience dealing with the interagency process, it was even worse - to the point where missed flights seemed like the best case scenario to some folks stuck in secondary.)

Calling ahead never did anything to help either. The shift to shift pass of instructions were really not used apparently. However, I assume that this would be helpful to establish prior good faith if someone did try to escalate around a process violation.

Internationally, it is nearly impossible in key cases. In many countries airsoft and other simulator weapons are heavily regulated if not banned, and laws for locals may differ from those for non-citizens due to very different assumptions underpinning their judicial frameworks. Connecting flights through those countries may place you in very serious legal jeopardy simply based on a shift of flight between busy terminals, requiring you to shift between airside to groundside and back, with associated customs controls (thinking of LHR here). Most foreign officials simply do not have a frame of understanding for training equipment - they only know these to be "evil" unless you are in uniform (and their uniform at that). Very long and uncomfortable experiences at secondary may result even if you are kosher. (And unfortunately, from the collective experiences of those I have worked with, attempting to correct their frame through things like "Olympic" stickers doesn't really help.)

I'd be interested to know if someone has managed to solve these issues more recently. My impression is that this has simply just gotten worse since I routinely had to deal with it.

[brett]

Thanks for all the responses. I have a direct flight from San Francisco to Munich and was debating whether carrying it on or checking it stood a better chance at making it through. When I used to travel with an AAD-equipped parachute, the manufacturer provided a card that I would give to the xray tech which explained why the AAD appeared to be a bomb and showed them a picture of what it looked like on screen for verification. It sounds like an equivalent card from Next Level wouldn't help much based on everyone's experiences.

While it sounds like the chances of hassle or failure are high, I think I'll still give it a shot. Hopefully the worst case scenario is that it's a $500 mistake, not a one-way-ticket to body cavity search land.

[JV_]

carrying it onIt must be checked, carry-on is not an option.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm

[brett]

JV: Thanks. I'd missed the 'Realistic Replicas of Firearms' line item. I guess I'll make some clear 'This is not a gun.' signage and cross my fingers.

[btyeung]

Brett, I just remembered that Kam traveled with my SIRT last night. Since it wasn't a firearm, she didn't need to declare it, however I had her just mention it just in case. They took her to the screening room, looked at it and then told the person at the counter to just put it down the normal chute and if they had an issue with it they would talk to Kam. This was domestic though, but lesson learned for me is to just not declare it for domestic flights.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.778578,-122.393064

[Fly320s]

JV: Thanks. I'd missed the 'Realistic Replicas of Firearms' line item. I guess I'll make some clear 'This is not a gun.' signage and cross my fingers.

Brett, leaving the US won't be the problem for you. Entering Germany probably will, just because it isn't the US and they don't have the same gun culture we do. If you don't know for a fact that you can take that gun with you, then don't.

Disclaimer: I have not travelled internationally with firearms.

[brett]

Update: so far, it was surprisingly easy. I checked it without discussion at SFO and had zero issues when I arrived in Germany. Hopefully the return trip will be equally uneventful.

[Fly320s]

Update: so far, it was surprisingly easy. I checked it without discussion at SFO and had zero issues when I arrived in Germany. Hopefully the return trip will be equally uneventful.

That is good news. Did you declare the "gun" at SFO? Did you declare in Germany?

[Byron]

Since domestic experiences are being shared, I figured I'd relate my recent one. I took three separate flights:
BWI > DEN
DEN > AUS
AUS > BWI

I checked the SIRT without declaring it and thankfully had no problems. I placed the SIRT in its factory plastic case with two dummy mags. Just to play it safe, I also included the factory manual in the case, and a hand-written note:
"This is NOT a firearm. If there are any issues, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX"

On the DEN > AUS leg of the trip, I did find a TSA notice of baggage inspection upon arrival, but I was never contacted or delayed in any way.

For whatever it's worth, I was not traveling with any live firearms; just the SIRT.

[abu fitna]

Following up to this discussion, a related conversation with some folks relayed that one particular individual apparently forgot to fully clean out his training gear from his checked baggage when flying. Apparently, this person missed a SIRT training mag. Flew through two major airports without it ever being noticed.

Not as awkward as finding an MP5 mag forgotten in checked baggage whilst in transit through a Middle Eastern country, but not terribly reassuring either. This individual was likely just lucky not to have had worse challenges... certainly not something he would ever repeat deliberately.

My only guess is that the training weights inside the mag body are so different from the size / shape of cartridges that they don't look anything alike on the screener's terminal. Again, not something one would want to test, however.

[Dr. No]

In 2003 I forgot a loaded .40 cal mag from my P7M10 in my backpack that I carried on. I went through security in AUS, ORD, and LGA - and then home again. Only then did I notice it.

Makes you feel safe, eh?

[ToddG]

I flew from Dulles International to Manchester NH with a complete SIG slide in my backpack carry-on.

But the security guy in Manchester sure noticed it, and that made for an interesting afternoon...