P320 came back from voluntary upgrade

[seamastersw]

I have a P320 9mm compact made in early 2015. Spring of 2017 I purchased a 9mm subcompact conversion kit. I just got my pistol and conversion slide back from Sig and am a little disappointed. The compact (3.9” barrel) slide had a groove milled into the slide to lighten it as part of the original design. Because of this groove, the disconnector that was installed doesn’t get depressed until the slide travels about 3/4 of the way rearward. When the disconnector engages the slide and gets depressed, it doesn’t engage a surface that corresponds to the angle of the disconnector. Sig used a round cutter to mill the original groove into the slide that end of the groove rounded. During the upgrade they milled all the material between the bullet pick-up rail and extractor side slide rail to a lower height. So now when the slide is traveling at nearly full speed it strikes the disconnector on one side of it's engagement surface rather than hitting it squarely. I don't know, seems like a poor solution for this generation slide.
What do you think?

The slide in question is the one on the right side.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/17zti3ewzqyza4e/Photo Nov 12, 8 23 00 AM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30g32necqt36odo/Photo Nov 12, 8 46 02 AM.jpg?dl=0

[jimjc]

Well I'm not a engineer and I don't know if you are one either. Everyone that I've read that has had their upgrade done and received it back has had very positive results, the trigger is as good or better than it was before the upgrade. I've heard of no drop fires, so it looks to be a success. I will be getting the upgrade since things look good.

I really like the P320 and like the modular system and have no intention to pick things apart on the gun, it works for me.

[seamastersw]

The trigger pull has improved from great to excellent. The only concern I have is that the disconnector does not disconnect the trigger bar until the slide is nearly all the way rearward. The disconnector also doesn't interface with a surface that corresponds to it's surface. The disconnector is struck by a hard corner rather than a parallel surface. While it is being driven down it is being done so by only one side.

[Sensei]

My P320 full size just arrived with the upgrade. Like seamastersw said, the trigger does not reset until the last 25% of the slide movement due the interface of the new disconnector and milled channel in the slide. Thus, there is a very noticeable wall/resistance in the last 25% of the slide movement as the disconnector hits the end of the channel in the slide. I have a feeling that this is going to put some wear on that disconnector, but we will see.

[Bill]

With the disconnector engaging that far rearward, is it possible to make the striker drop by manipulating the trigger with the slide slightly out of battery?

[seamastersw]

Yes, as far as I can tell you can drop the striker slightly out of battery.

[Lester Polfus]

Yes, as far as I can tell you can drop the striker slightly out of battery.

Huh. That makes me fear they may have traded one problem for another. I wonder if there is a safe way to test it with a primed, but other wise empty case.

[Drang]

Somehow I think that, if it was a problem, we'd've already been bombarded by videos of out-of-battery firing.

[BJV]

My buddy got his P320 back from voluntary upgrade. When he opened the box there was a Glock inside.

[seamastersw]

Today I had an opportunity to shoot about 250 rounds through my 320 Compact and Sub-compact. A small dent appeared on the slide where the disconnector strikes the slide on the Compact. The gun ran fine with both slides. I really like the P320 overall. Only issues I have is one of my USA magazines for the subcompact contacts the steel chassis and it doesn't drop free when ejected. The made in Italy magazine for the subcompact ejects fine. I attached some photos of the parts in question as they are now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ej2neals6pfjl4/AADE0xJybkA90HZQEMKoen6ja?dl=0

[psalms144.1]

That's a fairly HYUGE amount of metal to mill off the bottom of the slide, and then not refinish. The slides are stainless, but I'd still be concerned about corrosion there if I lived in a hot/humid environment.

[pblanc]

I guess the question in my mind is if this type of arrangement will result in accelerated wear and possible breakage of the disconnector. Fortunately, neither of my two P320s have that long lightening rout. My full-size P320 has returned from SIG and the disconnector resets the sear after only a short rearward slide movement.

[Sensei]

It's worth noting that the issue discussed in the OP doesn't apply to all versions of the P320 slide and only applies to the versions with the groove milled into the slide (apparently to lighten it) where the new disconnector ramp is supposed to be cut. I'm not sure which, or how many, slides have it. I know at least one of my 320s (the full-size currently sitting on my desk) does.

Let's please leave the jokes in General Discussion.

FWIW, I just got back my second P320 from Sig. This time it was a compact. Close inspection of my N of two, 1 full-size and 1 compact, shows milling that is essentially identical to the OP’s pictures. The tigers on both guns is very good and breaks right at 6lbs.

[CraigS]

I agree, that worn spot off to the right looks like a problem to me. Seems it will be kicking the disconnector sideways as well as the direction it needs to go.

[Coal Train]

Thanks to the OP for posting the pictures and describing your experience. My lone P320 is an X5 that I haven't gotten around to sending in yet. I'll have to check tonight but I believe it has the milled slide like what is shown in your pictures. I'm not crazy about the unfinished appearance of the milled area but the wear is more concerning.

[pblanc]

There is a member of another forum who stated that SIG did replace the slide of his P320 when he sent it in for the modification. I do not see any reason there should be an issue with the two slides that have no lightening rout cut on the right side.

[JodyH]

That's an interesting development in this ongoing drama.

My sample of 4:
RX = no lightening cut
FS = no lightening cut
Compact = no lightening cut
Sub-C = no lightening cut
So I should be GTG on getting all mine "upgraded".

If nothing else Sig is maintaining their reputation for being consistently inconsistent when it comes to what they send out the door.

[pblanc]

The fullsize RX (third from the left) has no lightening cut -- that's the one I said would be "perfect". The subcompact (last one on the right) has a stepped surface and that is the one I said "might have issues".

The "divot" that is milled out for the disconnector is much deeper than that step off. I strongly suspect that the disconnector will get depressed as soon as it leaves the little pocket.

[Auriemma]

I've seen some lightened slides with the disconnector cut, and a few others claim to have received new slides that had lightened slide and now don't. It might all come down to the QC at reassembly. if the disconnector doesn't work or hangs up, they may just replace it. It's their call, it's under warranty.

[Auriemma]

I think that's the part that bugs/worries people. :)
Keep in mind, the lightening slots were probably not cut to a high tolerance. So if the disconnector relief cuts into it and it doesn't work, what recourse does Sig have? They replace it. Hopefully none of the replacements had any serious mod (ceracoating or millwork) done. If so, I'm sure Sig would deal with it on a case by case basis. But if your slide is stock, and the replacement shoots well... what's the problem?

[pblanc]

I did see one photo of a modified P320 slide some where that had a long, shiny stripe along the entire right side that might have resulted from SIG milling down a step.

[seamastersw]

I used to carry the P320 Compact as my carry gun. After learning of the potential dangers of it firing when dropped I questioned the overall design and contemplated selling it. By then I had already purchased a sub-compact conversion kit, additional magazines for both sizes, and holsters. One of the subcompact magazines I purchased direct from Sig was stamped "Made in USA." That mag would not drop free when the release button was pressed. The "Made in Italy" magazine which came in the conversion kit works flawlessly. I spoke to a Sig rep who said he had not heard of this issue with anyone else. He swapped out my USA mag for another one that was also marked "Made in USA". The new mag has the same fail to drop free problem. I measured the dimensions of the mag with calipers and can only find variations of a few thousands of an inch. I think the issue is with the location of the hole that the mag release engages in the mag body.
The lack of a disconnector pocket (what Sig calls it) in my Compact slide is concerning to me. I am torn with this gun because I really like how it shoots and I've invested a lot of money in the 320 concept. I know Sig is losing money with the 320 debacle but if they made the commitment to fix the guns they should have done it properly. The cost of a new slide would have kept me from losing faith in their company and their guns. The SP2022 was going to be what I replaced the 320 with until they announced the voluntary upgrade, now sadly, I wouldn't touch another Sig. The P226 I loved in the early 2000's is a much higher grade pistol than the meh quality guns they currently produce. Rather than trying to expand into every possible market I wish they would go back to making quality guns.

[TexasSiegfried]

I used to carry the P320 Compact as my carry gun. After learning of the potential dangers of it firing when dropped I questioned the overall design and contemplated selling it. By then I had already purchased a sub-compact conversion kit, additional magazines for both sizes, and holsters. One of the subcompact magazines I purchased direct from Sig was stamped "Made in USA." That mag would not drop free when the release button was pressed. The "Made in Italy" magazine which came in the conversion kit works flawlessly. I spoke to a Sig rep who said he had not heard of this issue with anyone else. He swapped out my USA mag for another one that was also marked "Made in USA". The new mag has the same fail to drop free problem. I measured the dimensions of the mag with calipers and can only find variations of a few thousands of an inch. I think the issue is with the location of the hole that the mag release engages in the mag body.
The lack of a disconnector pocket (what Sig calls it) in my Compact slide is concerning to me. I am torn with this gun because I really like how it shoots and I've invested a lot of money in the 320 concept. I know Sig is losing money with the 320 debacle but if they made the commitment to fix the guns they should have done it properly. The cost of a new slide would have kept me from losing faith in their company and their guns. The SP2022 was going to be what I replaced the 320 with until they announced the voluntary upgrade, now sadly, I wouldn't touch another Sig. The P226 I loved in the early 2000's is a much higher grade pistol than the meh quality guns they currently produce. Rather than trying to expand into every possible market I wish they would go back to making quality guns.Just to piggyback on your comments above, I, too, heavily invested in the 320 platform in both 9mm and .40. I stoically weathered the passions and dramas of the back and forth winds over the last few months, and now that we are learning that there may be additional issues, I find myself holstering my SP2022 in .40 each morning, even though I don't shoot it as well.

There are many reasons for that switch in addition to the 320 issues (a desire to carry a hammer in aiwb, consolidation to a single primary caliber as my wife carries a 239 in .40, etc), but I am of the belief that my main reason for the switch is shared by many, which is, emotionally, I am just done.

It seems to me this is where Sig has most miscalculated. I am an admitted sig fan boy, but the open questions and perceived time investment to get it all settled is beyond my desire and attention span.

I don't regret getting the 320's, they were a great first year of ccw pistol, and I believe they helped me become a better shooter. For now, they will be reassigned to home defense and deployed in the various safes if needed.

I think the most important lesson I learned was not to be a heavy investor of early adoption. Oh, and to remember that just because a company provides defensive weapons, does not automatically equate to them serving your best interests over profit.

No bitterness on my part, but certainly time to move on.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[seamastersw]

I should add that I've had other problems with Sig Sauer in the past few years. My agency purchased P229's a few years ago that were equipped with the newer style long extractor. There were several problems which were first dismissed by Sig. Then over the course of two years several components were blamed for the issues until the guns were all returned and replaced with another brand. My agency is still involved with a lawsuit over the P229's. When I first started my career with a different agency I selected a 9mm P226 as my pistol. This was in 2003 and the gun went approx 15,000 rounds without a malfunction only to be retired when I changed jobs. The P229 I was issued was made in 2012 or 2013 and the day I received it I was not impressed one bit.

[Dismas316]

I haven't sent my P320s in yet -- I wanted to see how the process went, and if it evolved along the way, first. I have six (a fullsize, a compact, a carry, a subcompact, a compact with full length slide, and a fullsize RX -- all 9mm) and I just pulled them out of the safe to compare how all the slides are milled.

So I have six 9mm slides (2 fullsize, 2 compact, 1 subcompact, and 1 fullsize RX) and they are milled 6 different ways. Four will obviously end up with the sub-optimal disconnector ramp, one might have issues, and one will be "perfect".

21690

What a mess. I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I personally believe that Sig should replace the slides on guns that aren't compatible with the disconnector ramp cut, but it seems that's not happening and unless parts start failing they probably aren't going to.

This is my 320c RX slide that came back, I don't remember if it had any of the slide cuts like all of those in your pictures. I think it may also looked like the one one the far right but I really can't remember. My sc is currently at sig now and I believe, (but not sure) it looked like the one on the far right as well. Seems a bit odd that a manufacturer will have so many different slide configurations and still have complete consistency in the operation of the firearm but apparently that doesn't seem to be the case. This is not inspiring confidence in Sig but I guess that is a captain obvious statement.

[Coal Train]

Here is the slide on my 320X5 which seems to have the milling on the opposite side than the OP's pistol. I assume that Sig would not have to do additional milling since it is on the opposite side but who knows. I may wait a bit more before I send it in just to see if they change the process any.....

21701

[pblanc]

21702

This is a photo posted on another forum of three P320 slides all modified by SIG at the same go-around. Obviously, they all had different lightening routs. The one on the right looks as if it may have had a step milled down, or something else smoothed up for the disconnector head to ride on.

[JodyH]

There's no way Sig manufactures all these slides in-house, I've seen way too many variations even within the same serial number ranges.
I'm guessing that they're sub-contracting out the "upgrade" machining as well.
What a clusterfuck.

[psalms144.1]

I hate to rub salt in a wound, but the machining on a lot of those slides looks like someone did it with a dremel. Seriously, this is the best Sig can do?

I get that they have a HYUGE number of "upgrades" to get through, but if it were my pistol, I'd rather have a two-four week turn around with quality craftsmanship than a one week turn around that looked like this stuff. It's really sad how far Sig has fallen...

[Mfbpt]

I’m feeling really apprehensive about sending mine in for the so called upgrade.

[pblanc]

I received my full-size P320 .45 ACP back from SIG after the modification earlier this week. I also have an as yet unmodified compact P320 9 mm. Neither pistol had a long lightening rout on the bottom right side of the slide.

I compared the modified and unmodified pistols in dry fire side by side pretty extensively. Yesterday, I shot the modified .45 ACP, but only 30 rounds as it was getting dark and a bit cold at my outdoor range. I do not recall any significant difference in trigger action between the two FCUs prior to the modification.

My observations: The new trigger has the same reach as the old but is skeletonized completely on the backside, somewhat like the original P320 trigger before SIG came out with the "adverse" trigger. The face of the trigger shoe has the same contour, but the entire trigger shoe is a little narrower side to side than the adverse trigger. For me, the narrower trigger actually gives it a more pleasant feel even though the contour of the trigger shoe face looks the same. There is still some side to side play in the new trigger, but less than with the original, and there is less "slop" in the trigger take up.

In dry fire, the pre-travel seems to be the same in distance, but is significantly smoother with the new trigger, probably because of the lesser amount of play. The new trigger definitely seemed to break at a bit lower pull weight than the original but I do not have a gauge to confirm. The quality of the break is about equivalent with a bit of creep which I regard as the norm for a stock striker-fired trigger. There is very little over-travel (none appreciable to me) with either trigger. My trigger resets after only a short, rearward slide pull. The reset is a little more positive and audible with the modified trigger than with the original.

The take-down lever seems stiffer to rotate than before and I have to apply a good bit of thumb pressure to overcome the resistance. I can still easily take-down the pistol without resorting to the use of tools or special gyrations. The slide comes off the frame smoothly but reassembly is slightly tricky. If the disconnector is sticking up, it will hit the back of the slide during reassembly and must be pushed down. Even if the disconnector is down, sometimes it will pop up just before the back of the slide gets to it, and will need to be pushed down. Sometimes the trigger needs to be held forward as it is pushed down to make it stay down. The above makes the process sound more difficult than it is, but it is a definite difference and a little weird.

In my limited live fire session I became convinced that the trigger pull is a bit lighter than before and this will require a little adjustment on my part. On one rapid 5 shot string, I loosed off the third or fourth round a bit prematurely before my sights were quite back on target. I suspect many who use the pistol only at the range or in competition would welcome a little lighter trigger. I have always felt that the P320 trigger was a little light for a self-defense weapon, at least for my comfort level. I am used to DA/SA and DAO pistols and would not have been sorry to see the modification result in a little heavier trigger pull. The trigger action in live fire otherwise much the same without a noticeable difference except that I did experience a bit of trigger sting after shooting 20 rounds with fingerless gloves. I was a bit concerned about this possibility since the new, skeletonized trigger does somewhat resemble the original P320 trigger that gave some shooters trouble. This was not nearly as bad as what I experienced with the HK VP9 and won't affect my primary use for this pistol, which is as a nightstand, home defense pistol.

Overall, I was sufficiently satisfied with the upgraded trigger to send off my compact P320 9mm. I will be interested to see if I experience the same trigger sting with the smaller pistol in a lighter caliber.

[LockedBreech]

I am starting to wonder if this is just status quo now when it comes to Sig.

[LOKNLOD]

If it’s any help, two more data points:
Left, full size purchased 10/16
Right, compact purchased June-ish ‘17

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171119/1223ec590188d261eaf413fcf12ead1d.jpg

[MattK]

For what it's worth, attached is a picture of my P320 Compact (manufactured July 2015) that recently came back from SIG. The trigger resets after ~1/2" rearward slide pull. Likewise, I confirmed the trigger disconnects and will not release the striker after about the same amount of travel.

With the messy transition between the lightening groove and the newly milled disconnector pocket, I too was a bit concerned about the possibility for excess wear. I ran a toothpick along the transition it was surprisingly smoother than it looks.

21722

[Sensei]

Today I had an opportunity to shoot about 250 rounds through my 320 Compact and Sub-compact. A small dent appeared on the slide where the disconnector strikes the slide on the Compact. The gun ran fine with both slides. I really like the P320 overall. Only issues I have is one of my USA magazines for the subcompact contacts the steel chassis and it doesn't drop free when ejected. The made in Italy magazine for the subcompact ejects fine. I attached some photos of the parts in question as they are now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ej2neals6pfjl4/AADE0xJybkA90HZQEMKoen6ja?dl=0

I took both 320s (full-size and compact) to the range. Due to several other guns being put through their paces, I only had 100 rounds of 124 grain Blazer Brass between the 2 guns; both got roughly 50 rounds. The compact has a very slight wear in the slide similar to what you are seeing:

21728

I suspect it would be bigger had I shot more rounds. The full-size shows no such wear. Having said, both guns functioned fine and were extremely accurate. I was getting 6.5-7 second FAST drills which is fairly good for me on a platform that I rarely shoot and a day where I shot 4 different platforms. Round 1 was coming off at 1.95-2.05 seconds from OWB concealed at 4 o’clock. I struggled with releasing the slide with my support thumb because the lever is just a little more posterior than my Beretta and 1911s. That was costing me about 0.5 seconds or more as I had to “hunt” for the slide release (2.5-3 sec reloads). There was another 0.5 seconds lost getting the front sight back on target with a well developed grip.

Anyway, the gun seems reliable and accurate. I’m trying to decide if I want to invest the time and rounds to shave off that 0.5-1 second if durability is going to be a problem with the platform.

[Tokarev]

Why is durability going to be a concern? The 320 passed the ICE durability protocol which is 10k rounds.

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[CCT125US]

Why is durability going to be a concern? The 320 passed the ICE durability protocol which is 10k rounds.

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Not sure if sarcasm or not, but 10k could easily be 2 or 3 months of use for some folks.

[Sensei]

Why is durability going to be a concern? The 320 passed the ICE durability protocol which is 10k rounds.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I doubt the ICE guns had a trigger disconnect striking the shelf in the slide in the last third of the slide’s rearward movement. It’s happening with enough force to chip away at the slide after only 50 rounds in my gun which is probably not a good thing.

[Tokarev]

I doubt the ICE guns had a trigger disconnect striking the shelf in the slide in the last third of the slide’s rearward movement. It’s happening with enough force to chip away at the slide after only 50 rounds in my gun which is probably not a good thing.ICE guns were reportedly tested with the latest parts albeit factory not "upgraded."

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[Sensei]

ICE guns were reportedly tested with the latest parts albeit factory not "upgraded."

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I hope that everything will be fine, but I’ll feel better once there are reports of people getting past 50,000 rounds...

[HCM]

ICE guns were reportedly tested with the latest parts albeit factory not "upgraded."

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Exactly - this thread is discussing guns which are being "upgraded" / modified by the factory.

BTW - SIG's original submission did not have the upgraded parts, which was the subject of a protest by FN.

[Auriemma]

At least the rub mark gives you an indication of where to lube it next time.

[MattK]

Correction to my above post. The disconnector on my P320 is not activating until the slide is pulled back ~1.5" (not 1/2" as originally indicated). There is very little difference in depth between the newly milled disconnector pocket and the lightening groove - just a small ridge at the transition location. It's clear the disconnector is not activating until it hits the end of the lightening groove. I'm also starting to see wear in the same location that Sensei is seeing and that's just after racking the slide 30-40 times. I've not yet had the opportunity to take it out to the range but I cannot imagine what the wear is going to look like after thousands of live fire rounds.

[Tokarev]

My 320 Compact made it back today. With shipping both ways the process took about two weeks.

As others are reporting, my disconnector notch is milled into the lightening groove so the trigger resets near the end of its travel rather than at the beginning. Funky and different but probably not the end of the world.

I put 250-ish rounds of mixed ball and JHP through the gun. This included a mag of +P Gold Dot. The trigger was a tiny bit rough initially but it has smoothed up and doesn't feel too much different than it did pre-upgrade.

I pulled the slide off after the first 50 rounds and looked for signs of wear. I then cleaned and oiled the gun and shot the other 200.

There is a tiny wear spot right at the far edge of the lightening cut. It is really nothing more than a rub mark in the finish. It was there after 50 and doesn't look any different after 250. I'll shoot a few more rounds over the remainder of the week and see what happens.

I understand some of the frustration with this whole deal but I liked the gun prior to all the drop nonsense. It was reliable and accurate prior to the upgrade. If it is still reliable and accurate but now made safer by these new parts I don't see any reason NOT to like it. Unless I just wanted to sell it out of spite or something. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171121/d2281a9d06df63d10e2e73f2ba398be2.jpg

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[Sensei]

That wear spot is identical to mine. I assume that it comes from the trigger disconnect safety hitting it. Keep an eye on the disconnect too and I’ll do the same.

[Steven T]

All 3 of my P320's returned from Sig yesterday. 2 weeks from shipped to home. Both full sizes look like Tokarev's picture right down to the wear spot. My compact is a new slide with no lightening cuts. I was a little disappointed in the triggers when I first started playing with them. After cycling / dry fire they seem to have smoothed out a little bit. My trigger resets very far back as MattK described. I really liked the triggers on all 3 before I sent them in, now they seem mushy (almost Glock like). I also noticed that one of my full sizes is a PITA to put the slide back on after disassembly. I have 300 rounds to go run through them this week. I really like the P320 so I'll give it a chance. But I'm going to be watching the area around the disconnector pocket and the lightening cut.

[Tokarev]

Another 150 rounds this morning then disassembled for a good cleaning.

The trigger is now pretty crisp and feels about like I remember prior to the upgrade.

The wear mark looks fine. I don't see anything there that concerns me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/8211ce3fdfd5d43797f235f4c326cc47.jpg

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[seamastersw]

Another 150 rounds this morning then disassembled for a good cleaning.

The trigger is now pretty crisp and feels about like I remember prior to the upgrade.

The wear mark looks fine. I don't see anything there that concerns me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/8211ce3fdfd5d43797f235f4c326cc47.jpg

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I don’t see a wear mark. I see damage being done to the slide. I presume that damage is being done to the corresponding disconnector surface. The disconnector is also being smashed instead of directed downward as it should be. Very disappointing for an “upgrade.”

[Tokarev]

Pushing 500 rounds now AU (after upgrade) with slight wear increase along the disconnector notch.

I'll keep an eye on it but I'm not alarmed as of yet. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171201/89868023695884f4276175d0992e44ac.jpg

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[pblanc]

Any visible wear on the head of the disconnector?

[Drang]

Sent all three off the same day.
The compact came back last Tuesday, in exactly two weeks, and the sub compacts are due this coming Tuesday, in three weeks.

[UNK]

Has anyone had a chance to inspect a new 320 with the upgraded package to what is being done to the models coming back from the voluntary recall?
I was in a LGS this weekend and they said sells of the 320 had gone cold since the recall. This has to be really bad for Sig.

[JHC]

Has anyone had a chance to inspect a new 320 with the upgraded package to what is being done to the models coming back from the voluntary recall?
I was in a LGS this weekend and they said sells of the 320 had gone cold since the recall. This has to be really bad for Sig.

Pages and pages worth just above your post. ;)

I feel bad for these 320 users. I hope they work out as I hope the hell the M17 is a reliable and safe pistol. I know it is shootable as all get out.

[JodyH]

This has to be really bad for Sig.
Good.
They deserve a solid kick to the nads for this debacle.

I don't wish them permanent ill, but temporary pain is warranted.
Maybe it'll be painful enough that Cohen will step down...

[leathermaneod]

Good.
They deserve a solid kick to the nads for this debacle.

I don't wish them permanent ill, but temporary pain is warranted.
Maybe it'll be painful enough that Cohen will step down...

While I hope you are right, I doubt it with the military contract. Also, after many discussions on the forums, it seems most people don’t really care about what Sig has done, or their declining QC.


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[ralph]

I would'nt blame Cohen so much.. after all, he's doing exactly what the shareholders wanted... turn a profit, and they don't care how he does it..

[leathermaneod]

I would'nt blame Cohen so much.. after all, he's doing exactly what the shareholders wanted... turn a profit, and they don't care how he does it..

He may be turning a profit right now, but if Sig continues on the path they are on, he’ll run them into the ground eventually. They’ve already lost a lot of their great reputation....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Drang]

Sent all three off the same day.
The compact came back last Tuesday, in exactly two weeks, and the sub compacts are due this coming Tuesday, in three weeks.

MY sub-compact we delivered yesterday, Mrs. Drang's should be here today. FedEx guy said that they're trying to get ahead of the holidays, so when they finished Monday's deliveries they loaded a bunch of Tuesday's up, and got them out; it seems odd to me, though, since both were on the same delivery notice email. (With different tracking numbers, though.)

Compacts may be getting new slides, but my Sub has the same after market front sight on it, so they don't mess with that.

[Bodhi]

While I hope you are right, I doubt it with the military contract. Also, after many discussions on the forums, it seems most people don’t really care about what Sig has done, or their declining QC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Some of us completely dumped them. Once they started cheapening up the legacy guns with external extractors, Indian MIM, and bad QC it was time to go. I lost faith in them even servicing my pistols. My AF 229 357/40 went in for their AEP, and came back with pit marks in the frame and slide. They refused to do anything about it so I had CCR refinish it. Then I bought a 2022, malfs, FedEx, service. Then a 224 with nothing but issues, 3 trips to Exeter until I pressured them into replacing it. I was a 20 year customer. Used to, we’d say, on a P series (2004 and prior, before Cohen), you could buy one and head straight to the range, or holster it. It had that out of box reliability. Today I wouldn’t trust that company with a drop of my piss.

[leathermaneod]

Some of us completely dumped them. Once they started cheapening up the legacy guns with external extractors, Indian MIM, and bad QC it was time to go. I lost faith in them even servicing my pistols. My AF 229 357/40 went in for their AEP, and came back with pit marks in the frame and slide. They refused to do anything about it so I had CCR refinish it. Then I bought a 2022, malfs, FedEx, service. Then a 224 with nothing but issues, 3 trips to Exeter until I pressured them into replacing it. I was a 20 year customer. Used to, we’d say, on a P series (2004 and prior, before Cohen), you could buy one and head straight to the range, or holster it. It had that out of box reliability. Today I wouldn’t trust that company with a drop of my piss.

Glad to hear it. I really hope they notice the drop in civilian sales and start to make positive changes, because I really like their guns! But to me, Sig means top shelf, best of the best, and that just isn’t the case anymore, so I’m not buying anymore until it changes.

Most people on this forum seem pretty open minded and objective about the whole thing, but over on Sig Talk, breath one word of Sig having bad business practices or declining QC and you get jumped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[DpdG]

Has anyone had a chance to inspect a new 320 with the upgraded package to what is being done to the models coming back from the voluntary recall?
I was in a LGS this weekend and they said sells of the 320 had gone cold since the recall. This has to be really bad for Sig.

Sig stopped production of new 320s sometime back around August in order to implement the “upgrade” process. I’ve not seen any new pistols produced since then, which assemedly would have the upgrade parts. I’m not sure there are any brand new with the upgrade parts- only retrofit ones.

Regarding sales- even if I were inclined to purchase a 320 right now, I would not buy an old stock one that still needs the recall work. I suspect we won’t know the long term economic damage until Sig gets the commercial production line back up to speed turning out brand new pistols with the upgrade already implemented, and even then they would have to make their way to showroom floors.

[Bodhi]

Glad to hear it. I really hope they notice the drop in civilian sales and start to make positive changes, because I really like their guns! But to me, Sig means top shelf, best of the best, and that just isn’t the case anymore, so I’m not buying anymore until it changes.

Most people on this forum seem pretty open minded and objective about the whole thing, but over on Sig Talk, breath one word of Sig having bad business practices or declining QC and you get jumped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I know. That’s a fanboy site, and I am not well liked over there because I tell the truth, even if the Heavens do fall. It is not the same company. I tell anyone, and I have decades of experience with that company as previously mentioned, want one, then buy an old one, older than 2004, and you’re good to go. I know the main guy to work on them to, Sig Cerified factory armor, and there are only a few. He is looking for a full stainless 229 for me as I type this, and old one.

Now I just don’t need to talk about this anymore, especially Cohen, Rainbow, or Diamond Plate, And especially the indo/Indian MIM they have subcontracted out parts to.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I know. That’s a fanboy site, and I am not well liked over there because I tell the truth, even if the Heavens do fall. It is not the same company. I tell anyone, and I have decades of experience with that company as previously mentioned, want one, then buy an old one, older than 2004, and you’re good to go. I know the main guy to work on them to, Sig Cerified factory armor, and there are only a few. He is looking for a full stainless 229 for me as I type this, and old one.

Now I just don’t need to talk about this anymore, especially Cohen, Rainbow, or Diamond Plate, And especially the indo/Indian MIM they have subcontracted out parts to.Even the newer Legion pistols made after September 2017 have MIM triggers. These new MIM triggers are only patterned after the Gray Guns P-SAIT trigger. Ask me how I found this out!

[Tokarev]

Any visible wear on the head of the disconnector?

There doesn't seem to be.

I have been meaning to shoot a few more rounds over these last few days but I've distracted by other stuff. I'll hopefully shoot a few more rounds later this week.

[Bill]

Even the newer Legion pistols made after September 2017 have MIM triggers. These new MIM triggers are only patterned after the Gray Guns P-SAIT trigger. Ask me how I found this out!

No way, really?! Thats some Gabe Suarez shit right there. . .

[gtmtnbiker98]

No way, really?! Thats some Gabe Suarez shit right there. . .Serious as a heart attack. Confirmed by Gray himself on the book of faces.

[John Hearne]

Quantico Tactical is advertising new P320's that have already had the "upgrade."

[Sam]

Pages and pages worth just above your post. [emoji6]

I feel bad for these 320 users. I hope they work out as I hope the hell the M17 is a reliable and safe pistol. I know it is shootable as all get out.

I loved the guns so much I even paid CA prices for three P320s (double the price of the rest of the country). Really loved how they shot and appreciated the modular design. I hated how getting a new slide assembly and grip frame was almost as expensive as buying a new gun outside of California and I had extraction issues long before the recall. I was also upset the thumb safety was not backwards compatible.

If Sig has owned up to these recent issues I may have kept them in spite of everything else. The fact that they market these things for self-defense and CCW and then turn around and not give a crap about current customers until the internet exposes the problem, infuriated me. Yeah, sure, Sig cares about the people that may actually use them for the marketed purpose.