Stoeger Cougar 9mm

[LockedBreech]

I impulse bought a Stoeger Cougar 800F 9mm last month just before my medical bills and boring adult stuff hit. I already own a pretty well-used Beretta-branded Cougar 8040G with a few hundred no-issue rounds through it.

Today, since I had a sizable stash of ammo and hadn't shot in a while, I made a range trip of it. About 300 rounds through each, including 50 124 +P Speer Gold Dot through the 9mm and 50 180-grain Speer Gold Dot through the .40. The rest was Federal American Eagle 115-grain and 165-grain.

Some conclusions:

1.) In terms of initial fit and finish, the Stoeger-manufactured Cougar is absolutely the equal of my Beretta-branded example. If you didn't see roll marks, the Stoger is actually superior to my used Beretta example. For $350, that's neat.

2.) My 9mm Cougar mags are clearly Beretta magazines (in contrast to the unfinished, bare-metal ones I had to buy from Stoeger for my .40 version). Your luck may vary depending on when/from where you order. I'd recommend getting your Cougar on gunbroker so you can verify from the pics that your magazines are Italian-manufacture Beretta.

3.) Perfect reliability from both examples. Solid accuracy from the 9mm once I held the sights a little high. Good accuracy from the .40 S&W but lag time between shots due to recoil was measurable.

4.) Recoil impulse. My love affair for the .40 S&W is officially over. I will maintain my 229/M&P40/PX4/Cougar as reference copies, but the 9mm is notably easier to shoot, with a higher capacity and, with quality ammunition, equal or near-equal terminal effect.

As a bonus, I brought the Beretta 92A1 with Wilson Combat guide rod and Mec-Gar 18-rounders for its second range trip. God, that gun is a joy. Recoil is negligible. Accuracy is stunning. I went to this range trip with a friend and between the Cougars, my friend's budget 1911 (Rock Island or Thompson/Center), and a Sig Sauer P226, the 92A1 shot circles around everything. I could perform surgery with this gun. Perfect reliability, BB gun recoil.

Hope my range trip helps inform. :)

[LockedBreech]

800F...and I missed the edit window. 8000F* [emoji4]

Something else sorta interesting was that the locking lug on the new Stoeger appears different, similar to the PX4 lug more than the older Cougar. Wondering if Beretta quietly updated it. Pics when I have a chance .

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[Arbninftry]

Pictures, or it didn't happen;)
I have always been intrigued by Beretta offerings like the Cougar.

[willie]

I had one and agree with your opinions. Oddly the rear sights on these are pressed in most tightly and are almost impossible to move. A famous Beretta smith who works on the Beretta version told me in an email that he was unable to move the rear sights on the clones and hence refused to replace factory sights with other styles. This communication took place several years back.

[JonInWA]

As I've mentioned before on p-f, mark me up as one of those who really wanted the Cougar to work; the rotating barrel principle seemed well thought out, and the workmanship, fit and finish on my 8357 were exceptionally nice. My thought was that the rotating barrel/cam tooth architecture could be most effective with the higher-pressure/quicker pressure spiking .40 and .357 SIG cartridges.

In my case, and in the cases of the 2 major LEOs that adopted the Cougar (Utah State Patrol with the 8040 and North Carolina State Patrol with the 8357), there were flys in the ointment, in terms of operational reliability and jams. Neither of these 2 LEOs kept it for more than a year or two as an issue weapon due to its issues. Utah's issues with their 8040s .40 may have been more lubrication based; Beretta's protocol called for standard gun oil, which has a tendency to burn off and/or migrate away from the lubricated surfaces (particularly the cam tooth and corresponding barrel lug recesses for the tooth's track. NCHP (and myself) had huge issues with extraction and ejection, on top of the already mentioned lubrication issues. Despite switching cartridges at BUSA's behest, and BUSA re-working the extractor, the issues were never effectively resolved.

The 8357 also merely used the exact same sights as the 8040, which was not a particularly well thought out plan.

Probably the best cartridge for success for the platform were 9mm and .45 ACP; however, the advantages of the rotating barrel in these lower-pressure cartridges are pretty diminished, in my opinion-particularly regarding both then contemporary and current competitors. The 8045 saw some use with the LAPD, but when compared to the concurrently available Glock 21, which was lighter, had a significantly higher cartridge capacity, was less lubrication intensive, and I believe lower priced (Even at LA Police Athletic Association LEO pricing), the 8045 never really gained much traction.

Ergonomically the Cougar was very similar to one of the most ergonomic pistols of the time-the SIG-Sauer P225 (which was one of the reasons I was an early-adopting user). However, as in .45, the Cougar loses a lot to the Glock G19 in this niche, particularly in the size/weight/maintenance/price comparison.

I'm glad the original poster's works nicely. I'd strongly advise lubricating the cam tooth and barrel track, and areas of metal-on-metal rotational reciprocation with an appropriate heat-resistant and non-migrating/evaporating grease, such as Lucas' Red "N" Tacky #2.

While the PX4 seems to be trucking along nicely, these days I'm very pleased with HK's P30 and VP40 for my .40 needs, and in 9mm I'll stick primarily with Glocks and Beretta 92.

Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

As I've mentioned before on p-f, mark me up as one of those who really wanted the Cougar to work; the rotating barrel principle seemed well thought out, and the workmanship, fit and finish on my 8357 were exceptionally nice. My thought was that the rotating barrel/cam tooth architecture could be most effective with the higher-pressure/quicker pressure spiking .40 and .357 SIG cartridges.

In my case, and in the cases of the 2 major LEOs that adopted the Cougar (Utah State Patrol with the 8040 and North Carolina State Patrol with the 8357), there were flys in the ointment, in terms of operational reliability and jams. Neither of these 2 LEOs kept it for more than a year or two as an issue weapon due to its issues. Utah's issues with their 8040s .40 may have been more lubrication based; Beretta's protocol called for standard gun oil, which has a tendency to burn off and/or migrate away from the lubricated surfaces (particularly the cam tooth and corresponding barrel lug recesses for the tooth's track. NCHP (and myself) had huge issues with extraction and ejection, on top of the already mentioned lubrication issues. Despite switching cartridges at BUSA's behest, and BUSA re-working the extractor, the issues were never effectively resolved.

The 8357 also merely used the exact same sights as the 8040, which was not a particularly well thought out plan.

Probably the best cartridge for success for the platform were 9mm and .45 ACP; however, the advantages of the rotating barrel in these lower-pressure cartridges are pretty diminished, in my opinion-particularly regarding both then contemporary and current competitors. The 8045 saw some use with the LAPD, but when compared to the concurrently available Glock 21, which was lighter, had a significantly higher cartridge capacity, was less lubrication intensive, and I believe lower priced (Even at LA Police Athletic Association LEO pricing), the 8045 never really gained much traction.

Ergonomically the Cougar was very similar to one of the most ergonomic pistols of the time-the SIG-Sauer P225 (which was one of the reasons I was an early-adopting user). However, as in .45, the Cougar loses a lot to the Glock G19 in this niche, particularly in the size/weight/maintenance/price comparison.

I'm glad the original poster's works nicely. I'd strongly advise lubricating the cam tooth and barrel track, and areas of metal-on-metal rotational reciprocation with an appropriate heat-resistant and non-migrating/evaporating grease, such as Lucas' Red "N" Tacky #2.

While the PX4 seems to be trucking along nicely, these days I'm very pleased with HK's P30 and VP40 for my .40 needs, and in 9mm I'll stick primarily with Glocks and Beretta 92.

Best, Jon

Great contribution Jon, thank you for it.

The reason I have two of these guys is purely because they make me happy. No intent to replace the carry or home defense Glocks. There seems to be a pretty good consensus that while they were good guns, they were never great, and there were just enough reliability issues to make them unpalatable as a primary. I just...like them. Sometimes it's fun to buy a cheapo with an interesting lineage for plinking duty. Fortunately my 9-year experience with the PX4 has me well-prepped to maintain the rotation design well. I keep meaning to try the Red N' Tacky but I've had great experience with a nice film of TW-25B in the channel. When I used to use standard gun oil and/or breakfree, you could definitely feel the PX4 start to chug along a little more laboriously after a long range session. Never stopped on me, but a staying grease is certainly a better choice for this barrel system.

Pics of the updated locking lug will be forthcoming.

[JonInWA]

Sometimes just getting something because you like, enjoy and appreciate it for what it is is a perfectly adequate reason. Nice discussion, and I appreciate your perspective.

Best, Jon

[Bigghoss]

I just...like them.

The same reason I keep buying Ruger P-series and 3rd gen Smith classics. I see Cougars around plenty often for not a lot of money. I may just have to try one out sometime in the future.

[AdioSS]

I picked up one today in 9mm. I already own another 9mm fullsize & a carry .40 MiniCougar often. The Stoeger upper is a good bit lighter than the .40 Berettas. It is tapered much more toward the muzzle, uses a thinner barrel, has a channel groove along side the firing pin milled out much deeper than I’ve ever seen in any Beretta slide, & uses a plastic fluted guide rod. The top of the slide is rounded where the Berettas are flat. The back is the slide is cut inward with a curve toward the top to allow easier reach on the hammer. (That’s one of the reasons I run an extended Italian Shooting Team Hammer on my D slide MiniCougar, plus it looks cool.)

I just shot a 15rd magazine through it, & it shoots fine. I modified a MecGar 18rd mag for my other 9mm Cougar & may do another for this one, but with a Cougar baseplate.

[LockedBreech]

As promised, follow up pics. In all the pictures, left to right, is the 2016 Stoeger Cougar 8000F 9mm, 1990s Beretta Cougar 8040G .40 S&W, and 2008 Beretta PX4 Storm .40 S&W. Apologies that all need a cleaning and re-lubrication.

Note that the older 1990s 8040G Cougar locking block has smooth surfaces on the connection points between the barrel and the locking block, but the PX4 and newer Cougar have channels/serrations there. It's my theory that maybe that reduces binding between the barrel and the locking block when things get hot or lubrication gets low. Pure speculation, but they must've changed it for something.

[LockedBreech]

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