HK Survey

[LOKNLOD]

So, the HK facebook crew posted up this survey:
surveymonkey.com/r/DVRYZPK (http://surveymonkey.com/r/DVRYZPK) (I hope this link works)

It's for pistol features and preferences. I think the P-F crowd probably has better input than the facetwit douchery.

And yes, if you're wondering, if they followed my answers they'd end up with the P30-based version of a Langdon PX4 and a G19-sized VP9 with better texture and OEM Gadget.

[Qaz98]

So, the HK facebook crew posted up this survey:
surveymonkey.com/r/DVRYZPK (http://surveymonkey.com/r/DVRYZPK) (I hope this link works)

It's for pistol features and preferences. I think the P-F crowd probably has better input than the facetwit douchery.

And yes, if you're wondering, if they followed my answers they'd end up with the P30-based version of a Langdon PX4 and a G19-sized VP9 with better texture and OEM Gadget.My thought would be a 10 round single stack, p30sk, with better trijicons

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[PD Sgt.]

I suggested a P30sk with a P2000 size frame (13 rounds) and a HK45C with a rear decocker button and safety only lever.

[HCM]

An optional grip panel kit for VP9/P30's with a rougher texture.

Get rid of trenches inside the trigger guard ala the VP9SK.

A G19 sized VP9 mid size.

A P2000 sized single stack for those in occupied America.

HD / BOLD type sights.

The swappable Paddle/ button mag release supposedly shown on the SFP 9 at euro trade shows...

[kitten_frenzy]

I wish they would just make a blatantly direct copy of a Glock 19 with the grip modularity of the VP9.
What I currently dislike about the VP9: size (width and height) and weight inefficiency when compared to the G19 and the more complicated design and disassembly.

If you won't admit you'd buy one then I'm calling you a filthy liar :)

[LOKNLOD]

See I knew you guys would have good stuff to add. I wrote out paragraphs in each box. Referenced part numbers for specific sights. Refered then to Tau Developmenr for oEM gadgets.



An optional grip panel kit for VP9/P30's with a rougher texture.


A G19 sized VP9 mid size.


HD / BOLD type sights.

..

I covered all these too...

[newyork]

I’d like to see a vp9 with something like BOLD sights, a factory gadget and a G19 size frame or a P30 with BOlD sights, G19 size frame and maybe a shorter reset.

[Mjolnir]

We all think alike. I did the same. Asked the mm to either offer Armorer's Manuals or seriously reduce complexity.

Contact AmeriGlo and ask to see Part # GL-947. Just make it taller.

See the M&P2.0 for stippling and be sure to have aggressive stippling high up along the frame.

LEM, with shorter reset and slightly less pre-travel (CD4.1) in a Glock 19 package with overly aggressive stippling and I'd sell off a lot of stuff.


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[psalms144.1]

I hit nearly all of the points listed already (they might get tired of hearing about Ameriglo!). I added that they have the most accurate production pistols in the world, with the worst DA/SA triggers.

For me, I'd take a P2000 with improved P30 ergos, a 15 round magazine (I can dream!), Ameriglos, and a decent DA/SA trigger...

[LOKNLOD]

I hit nearly all of the points listed already (they might get tired of hearing about Ameriglo!). I added that they have the most accurate production pistols in the world, with the worst DA/SA triggers.

For me, I'd take a P2000 with improved P30 ergos, a 15 round magazine (I can dream!), Ameriglos, and a decent DA/SA trigger...

Ha! Hey they asked for it with the specific sight questions. I also mentioned that if the aftermarket would catch up (reach out to them!) then the Glock model of no-cost dovetail fillers is pretty effective too, especially when you’re in a cost-conscious marketplace.

And I harped in mag capacity too. A G19 sized gun needs 15 round mags. A P30 sized gun should have 17s...

[jc000]

I happily filled it out, but man… that was one poorly put together survey.

[nate89]

I happily filled it out, but man… that was one poorly put together survey.

I agree, the wording was rough to get through. I knew what they were looking for on the first question, but wow I had to read it a few times to get it.

[EVP]

Yea some of it sounds silly but.....

At least HK is trying to get feedback, can’t complain about that!

[Chris17404]

Filled out the survey. My ask was simple: a hammer-fired single-stack 9mm about the size of a Glock 43/Walther PPS with ergos similar to P30.

[Qaz98]

Yes. Totally agree.

[FOG]

I'm pretty happy with my 2 year relationship with my vp9's. I'd like a larger capacity than 15+1 though.

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[Zirk208]

I kept it simple: A standardized pic rail on the USP lineup.

[Prdator]

Reliability accuracy sights triggers. Maybe they'll get the hint

[Greg Bell]

Modernized p7m13 with improved ergos

[Lynskey]

An optional grip panel kit for VP9/P30's with a rougher texture.

Get rid of trenches inside the trigger guard ala the VP9SK.

A G19 sized VP9 mid size.

A P2000 sized single stack for those in occupied America.

HD / BOLD type sights.

The swappable Paddle/ button mag release supposedly shown on the SFP 9 at euro trade shows...

I have two VP9s and about the only thing I don't like about them is the trenches in the bottom of the trigger guard. Completely not necessary and is in fact a detriment that I see mentioned often.

My son is a USP fan and last weekend he was home for a visit. Took him to the range to shoot several guns. After two magazines through the VP9 he handed it back and wouldn't shoot it anymore due to the trenches rubbing his finger.

[Jaywalker]

I told them the trigger guard trench is a bigger impediment to buying an HK than the price. I also suggested they do an internet search on "trigger reach" and suggested they make parts available to shorten the reach. Size? Clearly the G19 is the target, and I was okay with dropping magazine capacity to 14 rounds in order to maintain the best-in-the-world quality of HK magazines. Modularity I don't care much about but suggested it would be nice to have the serial-numbered part minimized so I I can ship it without incurring pistol-shipping rates and a gunsmith (or H&K) can substitute their own when doing work.

[HCM]

Modernized p7m13 with improved ergos

Not gonna happen. Even the existing P7 series are cost prohibitive to produce.

Plus as cool as they are, P7's have some real downsides when you actually shoot them seriously.

[HRoark]

Not gonna happen. Even the existing P7 series are cost prohibitive to produce.

Plus as cool as they are, P7's have some real downsides when you actually shoot them seriously.

Ow... hot! Hot! SONOFABITCH!

[HCM]

Ow... hot! Hot! SONOFABITCH!

Yup. Plus they are unique enough it's a problem to switch between the P7 and other guns.

Have two or three PM13's for serious use would be a pricey proposition. At least with a Wilson or Nighthawk 1911. You could have a TRP or even an RIA as back ups.

[MistWolf]

1. What would make you trade in or turn your current pistol into a safe queen?
- It would have to be one helluva pistol for me to give up my PPQ M1

2. What price point at retail would make the handgun accessible and desirable for the mass market and not just enthusiasts?
- Never underestimate the the frugality of the American Shooter. For reference, see the popularity of the High Point and surplus Mosin Nagant.

3. What features are "quintessentially HK" and need to be maintained in a new platform?
- The lever style magazine release, only make the lever longer. Make sure that the HK reputation for solid quality is not an illusion. Don't lose your Teutonic quirkiness.

4. What features are "mission critical" on a modern handgun design? What are optional?
- Mission Critical: Reliability, Durability, Shootability, Simple Problem Solving, Accuracy.

5. What size(s) are recommended for the American civilian market? What magazine capacities to match?
- Not certain

6. What do you look for in a handgun purchase? How do your current handguns meet that need?
- Something that's reliable, durable, shootable, accurate, easy to manipulate and a good value. Looks don't make a pistol shoot better, but I like a pistol to look good, or at least look right. My current is all of these.

7. What sights would you like to see on a stock weapon? What features draw you to those sights?
- Square notch rear, flat top front. They are easy for me to see and align. Square tritium lamps/day glow inserts on top would be a bonus.

8. What is your need for modularity in a handgun? What features do you want modular?
- Define modular. A good, streamlined weapon light would be good. Streamlined RMR system would be good.

9. What type of modifications if any do you preform to your handgun?
- Depends on what the handgun needs to do the job.

10. We would like to send you more surveys. Please provide you email address (optional)
- No, thank you.

11. What other things would you like to see on a handgun?
- Grippier panels that don't tear up clothing. Elimination of contact areas that irritate or abrade the shooter. Rounder shapes for easier and more comfortable concealment.

[RevolverRob]

The swappable Paddle/ button mag release supposedly shown on the SFP 9 at euro trade shows...

GET OFF OF MY LAWN. :eek:

The part where Walther fucked up, in my not so humble opinion, is the point in time when they got rid of the paddle releases and went to buttons. Buttons suck. Paddles all day, every day, and twice on Sundays, and four times on range day.

My hatred of buttons stems from the fact that the 1911 is the only gun with a button mag release that I can hit without shifting my grip. Paddles, particularly the right side paddle of the HK, I can hit with my trigger finger. I'm so much faster with a paddle release gun it isn't funny...

___

Since I viewed this survey like asking Santa for Christmas presents. I went with the one thing I really want from HK. A G43-sized HK in 9 with an LEM trigger. Screw everything else, if they offered that I'd buy three of them.

1. A single stack 9mm with an LEM trigger in approximately the same size envelope as the Glock 43
2. $5-600 retail with two magazines and night sights (VP9 is priced well, P30 is a harder sell)
3. Ambidextrous Paddle-type magazine release, HK accuracy, HK reliability
4. Mandatory: Reliability, Accuracy, Night Sights, Capacity (15+ rounds for 9mm)
Optional: Factory machined to accept miniature red dot optical sights (e.g., Trijicon RMR)
5. 15-20 round flush fit. Extended lengths to 25-28 rounds.
6. Reliability, accuracy, availability of accessories. My current handguns largely meet my needs, HK P30s outfitted with aftermarket night sights.
7. Heinie Straight or Slantpro 8s, 10-8 Tactical rear with tritium dot front. Suppressor height sights on guns milled for MRDS.
8. handguns should come standard with 1913-style rails. I would purchase new USPs if they came with 1913-style rails.
9. Suppressor-height night sights, texture improvement, smoothing of trigger pull, threaded barrels for using a sound suppressor.
11. A pocketable single-stack 9mm, with an LEM trigger.

[Mike C]

GET OFF OF MY LAWN. :eek:

The part where Walther fucked up, in my not so humble opinion, is the point in time when they got rid of the paddle releases and went to buttons. Buttons suck. Paddles all day, every day, and twice on Sundays, and four times on range day.

My hatred of buttons stems from the fact that the 1911 is the only gun with a button mag release that I can hit without shifting my grip. Paddles, particularly the right side paddle of the HK, I can hit with my trigger finger. I'm so much faster with a paddle release gun it isn't funny...

___

Since I viewed this survey like asking Santa for Christmas presents. I went with the one thing I really want from HK. A G43-sized HK in 9 with an LEM trigger. Screw everything else, if they offered that I'd buy three of them.

1. A single stack 9mm with an LEM trigger in approximately the same size envelope as the Glock 43
2. $5-600 retail with two magazines and night sights (VP9 is priced well, P30 is a harder sell)
3. Ambidextrous Paddle-type magazine release, HK accuracy, HK reliability
4. Mandatory: Reliability, Accuracy, Night Sights, Capacity (15+ rounds for 9mm)
Optional: Factory machined to accept miniature red dot optical sights (e.g., Trijicon RMR)
5. 15-20 round flush fit. Extended lengths to 25-28 rounds.
6. Reliability, accuracy, availability of accessories. My current handguns largely meet my needs, HK P30s outfitted with aftermarket night sights.
7. Heinie Straight or Slantpro 8s, 10-8 Tactical rear with tritium dot front. Suppressor height sights on guns milled for MRDS.
8. handguns should come standard with 1913-style rails. I would purchase new USPs if they came with 1913-style rails.
9. Suppressor-height night sights, texture improvement, smoothing of trigger pull, threaded barrels for using a sound suppressor.
11. A pocketable single-stack 9mm, with an LEM trigger.

A single stack 9mm LEM and DA/SA gun would be awesome sauce, even better if it had the ability of the USP's to swap from the LEM to DA/SA with just parts. More MRDS options in P2000 sized package would rock to. There are some decent lists here and the fact that HK posted a survey gives hope that things are changing there and they are listening to what consumers want.

[MistWolf]

GET OFF OF MY LAWN. :eek:

The part where Walther fucked up, in my not so humble opinion, is the point in time when they got rid of the paddle releases and went to buttons. Buttons suck. Paddles all day, every day, and twice on Sundays, and four times on range day.

My hatred of buttons stems from the fact that the 1911 is the only gun with a button mag release that I can hit without shifting my grip. Paddles, particularly the right side paddle of the HK, I can hit with my trigger finger. I'm so much faster with a paddle release gun it isn't funny...

Amen, brother

[Josh Runkle]

If the past is any indicator, HK will take this data on what civilian users want now, and do those ideas 25 years from now.


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[SoCalDep]

Filled it out. Bet they won't like my answers.

[noguns]

Id love HKs version of the xds 4.0 9mm with a hammer and p30 ergo, but slightly squared off grip.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I'm a curmudgeon and requested a subcompact USP in 9x19mm and 40 S&W with the same modular fire control group and safety/decocker as other USPs and availability of at least a heavy LEM conversion. Current HK irons standard with factory night sights an option featuring a very loud orange or yellow highlighted front post. Also made a point that paddle mag releases and slick/dehorned mags are quintessential HK to me. Made mention that internal modularity means more to me than external but more tune-able texturing on grip panels would be nice.

[RJ]

Ow... hot! Hot! SONOFABITCH!

LOL.

That was my experience after putting 50 rounds through a P7M8.

[Old Man Winter]

My 2 cents added to the survey.

1.) Striker fired with old school HK reliability and accuracy.
2.) Replicate the size of Glock 17/19/26.
3.) Glock and aftermarket Glock magazine compatibility.
4.) Glock sight dovetail / attachment so there's instant options.
5.) Light LEM trigger.
6.) Modular grip. No finger grooves. No spiderman grip. Had it right with the P2000 and 45c.
7.) $599 msrp.

[Trav]

I asked for a USP/P2000 in a single-stack 9mm with 6-, 7-, and 8- round mags a la the original Walther PPS. I also reiterated the request for a non-proprietary rail on the USP.

Thanks for the link.

[PNWTO]

I basically spec'd out what would be the USPc 9mm equivalent of the Px4 CC, to include different lever sizes that the user can tailor to use.

Repeated the need for the pic rail renovation on the USP guns and complemented them for maintaining a proper trigger guard size for use with heavy gloves.

[psalms144.1]

My 2 cents added to the survey.

1.) Striker fired with old school HK reliability and accuracy.
2.) Replicate the size of Glock 17/19/26.
3.) Glock and aftermarket Glock magazine compatibility.
4.) Glock sight dovetail / attachment so there's instant options.
Agree with 1 and 2, 3 is BRILLIANT, but probably not legal; 4 is even more brilliant - and should be easily do-able...

[Josh Runkle]

3 is BRILLIANT, but probably not legal

Kriss Vector, Lone Wolf 9mm AR, Kel-Tec Sub 2000...


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[psalms144.1]

Kriss Vector, Lone Wolf 9mm AR, Kel-Tec Sub 2000...None of which are handguns that would directly compete with GLOCK's offerings.

[RevolverRob]

My 2 cents added to the survey.

1.) Striker fired with old school HK reliability and accuracy.
2.) Replicate the size of Glock 17/19/26.
3.) Glock and aftermarket Glock magazine compatibility.
4.) Glock sight dovetail / attachment so there's instant options.
5.) Light LEM trigger.
6.) Modular grip. No finger grooves. No spiderman grip. Had it right with the P2000 and 45c.
7.) $599 msrp.

I mean...if you want a Glock made to HK quality, that seems like a note for Glock not HK...:eek:

___

And I guess I missed the memo on why I want Glock magazine compatibility in my HKs? Cheaper mags? Because HK magazines are better constructed and engineered than Glock mags. Sure they are more expensive, I solve this problem by buying HKs and only HKs and not buying Glocks and thus instead of buying a fifth Glock because the other four are back at the factory getting brass-to-the-face "fixed", I can use that cash to buy magazines. :p

___

Okay, more serious note - I would like to see Ameriglo offer better HK sights, but that's a note for Ameriglo, not HK.

A note for HK is - I really want an optics ready, 5" VP9.

[psalms144.1]

Okay, more serious note - I would like to see Ameriglo offer better HK sights, but that's a note for Ameriglo, not HK. Actually, having spoken with Ameriglo about HK sights repeatedly, they don't want to invest the time/energy/money to produce them because (a) HKs are a tiny portion of the market share and (b) because HK changes their F'ing dovetails every time they make a new model (or that has been their track record). So, it is, in fact, an "HK issue." Seriously, don't understand why the USP, P2000, and P30/HK45 have different dovetails... Adopting the dovetails for the most popular make of semi-autos in the world would greatly simplify that...

Of course, Glock's front sights aren't dovetailed at all, so they'd have to pick the next most popular model in order to have a full set. Sig? M&P? Not sure, but anything would be better than the current plan where nothing except razor sharp HDs work...

[Mjolnir]

They could simply upgrade the P2000 with updated ergo grip with a very aggressive stippling job and the CD4.1 LEM trigger with the Todd L Green springs. I would abandon all for that.


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[RevolverRob]

Actually, having spoken with Ameriglo about HK sights repeatedly, they don't want to invest the time/energy/money to produce them because (a) HKs are a tiny portion of the market share and (b) because HK changes their F'ing dovetails every time they make a new model (or that has been their track record). So, it is, in fact, an "HK issue." Seriously, don't understand why the USP, P2000, and P30/HK45 have different dovetails... Adopting the dovetails for the most popular make of semi-autos in the world would greatly simplify that...

Of course, Glock's front sights aren't dovetailed at all, so they'd have to pick the next most popular model in order to have a full set. Sig? M&P? Not sure, but anything would be better than the current plan where nothing except razor sharp HDs work...

Proprietary changes are an important aspect of maintaining intellectual property. I agree it would be nice if HK maintained continuity across all of their dovetails across all models, but adopting someone else's dovetails, because there are aftermarket options for it, isn't a smart move in terms of intellectual property and protection.

Also, the P30/HK45/VP9/VP40/P30SK/VP9SK all use the same dovetails...so it appears HK is standardizing their dovetails. HK hasn't released a "new" dovetail since 2006 when the P30 was released, that was 11 years ago. So I think Ameriglo is kind of full of shit re: "HK Keeps changing the dovetail!" It's been the same for 11 years. They just don't want to invest the money to make the sights, because the market is small. - This is an Ameriglo problem, not an HK problem.

Suggesting HK change the USP and P2000 dovetails to match the P30 one would be a great option to improve the USP/P2000 series of handguns, though.

[LOKNLOD]

Also, the P30/HK45/VP9/VP40/P30SK/VP9SK all use the same dovetails...so it appears HK is standardizing their dovetails. HK hasn't released a "new" dovetail since 2006 when the P30 was released, that was 11 years ago. So I think Ameriglo is kind of full of shit re: "HK Keeps changing the dovetail!" It's been the same for 11 years. They just don't want to invest the money to make the sights, because the market is small. - This is an Ameriglo problem, not an HK problem.

Suggesting HK change the USP and P2000 dovetails to match the P30 one would be a great option to improve the USP/P2000 series of handguns, though.

Agreed, and the popularity of the VP9 relative to the P30 and previous seems to be much higher.

Part of my suggestion to HK re: sights was that whatever new they come out with should be shared with aftermarket sight manufacturers pre-release to promote both products.

[Old Man Winter]

I mean...if you want a Glock made to HK quality, that seems like a note for Glock not HK...:eek:

And I guess I missed the memo on why I want Glock magazine compatibility in my HKs? Cheaper mags? Because HK magazines are better constructed and engineered than Glock mags. Sure they are more expensive, I solve this problem by buying HKs and only HKs and not buying Glocks and thus instead of buying a fifth Glock because the other four are back at the factory getting brass-to-the-face "fixed", I can use that cash to buy magazines. :p

HK doesn't have a mass market success in their line up. Plenty of good pistols but nothing has made a dent in Glock's marketshare. The industry is starting to move in the direction of aftermarket frames, slides, barrels and mags for Glock. It's going to be the next lego gun in this country comparable to the 10/22, 1911 and AR platform. Clearly the industry hasn't been able to beat Glock so it's time to join them and build their own G17/G19.

There's already precedent for this to happen. HK has rolled their own AR variant. Wasn't there consideration of an HK1911 before the HK45 arrived?

I'd like to believe HK can improve on the Glock trigger, accuracy, extraction, etc.

[RevolverRob]

I'd like to believe HK can improve on the Glock trigger, accuracy, extraction, etc.

I'm struggling to find a politic way to put this...Glock needs to fix its own piles of shit and HK needs to stay out of it. If Glocks are the next "Lego Guns", fine, let the little folks build them up. A solid company needs to stay away from that stuff.

Remember, HK builds military weapons first (Glock doesn't build machine guns, for instance) and civilian arms second. Their handgun market isn't designed to dominate and their survey is to help them refine/predict market trend to allow them to maybe capture a few more percentage points. I don't think they want to supplant Glock, or they'd do it, where it hurts the hardest, military and LEO contracts.

The AR15 variant comparison doesn't hold water. HK had no interest in building an "AR15" until approached by military end users to build a top-end that could retrofit onto existing lowers. The ability to capitalize on that financially in the civilian market only makes sense. Again, this was a military end user driven system, not "because everyone else is doing it". HK was also never serious about making a 1911. Vickers wanted them to and they were basically like, "No way." And once he realized that, they went on to build a better gun anyways (the HK45).

[call_me_ski]

I told them I wanted a P7M13 with the ameriglos from my PX4 CC.

Should I start holding my breath?

[EVP]

I don’t understand a lot of these suggestions and some are kinda out there.

For me it is simple and stays in the same ideas as HK has done before.

Make some match trigger components for the newer models. USP has them why not the p30/hk45?

The only thing I would like to see and it is not a real big deal to me is more factory support. More and accessible armorers courses for the general population. Never had issue with getting parts.