VZ 58 - Any experiences?

[jmjames]

I am curious about the VZ 58, does anyone have any experiences with it? I'm not looking to buy one any time soon (the lack of good optic mounting options, from what I can tell, pretty much rules it out in my book), but I am curious what folks think of it if they've used one or worked on one at all.

J.Ja

[DocGKR]

Generally well made, reliable, bit lighter than an AK, but can be hard to find mags for...

[TCinVA]

I was graciously offered the use of one by Templar (commie weapon expert) for an AK class some time ago. It was reliable, accurate, and much lighter than you would expect it to be by looking at it. The model I was borrowing was also very well made. (FredM brought one that broke on him fairly early) The rifle was clearly capable of far better accuracy than I could wring out of it with my meager skills. At 200 yards offhand I had no trouble making shots on a 12" piece of steel, even with a hodgepodge of commie ammo. At closer ranges the only thing that kept me out of the X ring of an NRA bullseye was my own incompetence. The trigger took a bit of getting used to, but I adapted to it fairly easily once I started using a rolling break.

I did find all the sharp edges on the rifle annoying to the point where I wore gloves most of the time. It's been said in the past that the AK is like a cheese grater...well, the CZ is doubly so. The magazines are aluminum and specialized which means they won't be as to-hell-and-back durable or as cheap and plentiful as good AK magazines.

Overall I had a very positive impression of the rifle after using it for a couple of days and wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I had sufficient finances to own whatever I wanted.

[Jay Cunningham]

They are nice guns and a very viable option to the AK. Less logistical support, tho.

[Tamara]

Lots of handling but only a little fam-fire.

Really slim and fast-handling, almost like an M1 carbine in that respect.

Due to the above-noted anti-ubiquity of mags and spares, it's nothing I'd rely on for any heavy usage.

[orionz06]

Only a few mags through one but I would definitely not rule it out. My only shots at distance (100 and 200) were all hits on 6" poppers with irons. Troy makes/imports a decent looking rail that allows an Aimpoint to be mounted and they are slick.

[jmjames]

Wow! That sounds pretty good! I think I'll put myself in the boat of, "if I have money just sitting around, I'll get one" camp. The importer (Czech Point) seems to have a bunch of mags for it, but it's definitely clear that the aftermarket for it isn't so hot, from what I've seen.

J.Ja

[Kyle Reese]

As TC said, mine broke fairly early in a LAV AK operator's class in the spring of 2010. It turns out that my FFL installed (incorrectly, it turns out) a "match" trigger in the weapon. Something in the trigger mech broke (I forget at the moment what specifically), but Czechpoint repaired the rifle at no cost to me and promptly shipped it back. 1200 or so rounds later, it shoots just fine.

I like it so much I'm adding a second on to my collection.

The Slovak troops here like theirs just fine too.

[jmjames]

I like it so much I'm adding a second on to my collection.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing in terms of optics? Paying Cezchpoint the extra $80 for an AK side rail and something hanging off of there? I see a number of ways to get a rail on there, from using an upper handguard with a rail (cheap, at around $70, but probably loose), to a small rail mounted on the receiver, to some longer rails that seem to replace the rear leaf sight and use that mounting point for stability.

The more I read about this rifle, the more I like it. It's the price of a well-built AK (like an Arsenal), it is super lightweight, milled receiver, shoots 7.62x39... that's a nice mix. Especially if it is as accurate as you and a couple of others have said.

J.Ja

[Tamara]

Personally, I think the Czechs had superior alternatives to both the AK and the SKS (http://cosmolineandrust.blogspot.com/2007/07/vz-52-rifle-handy-hybrid.html), but the Russkies are as susceptible to NIH Syndrome as we are. :o

[Kyle Reese]

JMJAMES,
Right now i'm just running it with irons. May add a Troy rail and T-1 to it in the future.

[Al T.]

If you get it, I want to shoot it. :p

IMHO, get a bunch of magazines. I like a minimum of 10 per semi-auto, which is why I don't own a Scar-17. :eek:

[jmjames]

If you get it, I want to shoot it. :p

IMHO, get a bunch of magazines. I like a minimum of 10 per semi-auto, which is why I don't own a Scar-17. :eek:

The VZ 58 mags are cheap... $13 each? That's about as cheap as it gets without owning a G3. :)

If I knew that 7.62x39 could be a winner for hunting deer and hogs in the local area (Al... thoughts on that?) I would definitely consider this as a competitor with an AR for my needs. Owning one rifle is a lot more attractive to me than what amounts to nearly two rifles (AR lower + 2 uppers/optics) considering that I don't get to shoot rifles very often, and the ammo is cheap enough that it's not a budget buster on the range.

J.Ja

[DocGKR]

When using good quality 7.62x39mm ammunition such as the Hornady 123 gr VMAX, Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239), and the Lapua 125 gr JSP fired out of a 16” barrel, terminal performance is on par with lightweight .30-30 or the new .300BLK loads. This is more than sufficient for deer and hogs.

[Al T.]

^^^^^ What he said. What you'll find around here is guys who can't shoot blaming the equipment. IMHO, depending on the exact platform, 7.62x39 is a 200ish yard cartridge. Unless you are in agricultural fields, no need for more here. And if you are shooting bean fields, you are in a very specialized zone where your glass alone will buy a couple of AKs.

;)

[Odin Bravo One]

I like them, but the issue I have is that for the same price as a well built AK, I can get a well built AK.

Like the AR, and 1911, an entire cottage industry has been built up over the years here in the US to support AK's, and the number of well qualified people to work on them has increased as well.........albeit on a smaller scale when compared to the two platforms listed above.

Still, it is a nice rifle and if one came to me at a decent price, I would consider it. After all, the only thing between me and the exact configuration of optics and accessories for any rifle is money. If you can dream it and afford it, someone out there can built it.

[jmjames]

When using good quality 7.62x39mm ammunition such as the Hornady 123 gr VMAX, Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239), and the Lapua 125 gr JSP fired out of a 16” barrel, terminal performance is on par with lightweight .30-30 or the new .300BLK loads. This is more than sufficient for deer and hogs.


^^^^^ What he said. What you'll find around here is guys who can't shoot blaming the equipment. IMHO, depending on the exact platform, 7.62x39 is a 200ish yard cartridge. Unless you are in agricultural fields, no need for more here. And if you are shooting bean fields, you are in a very specialized zone where your glass alone will buy a couple of AKs.

;)

Sounds good to me. The only prospect I have on hunting grounds right now is a friend's land, and he says that some of his shots for deer are in the 150 - 175 yard range, and a lot are closer. I get the impression that his land is mixed woods and fields. I'm also wide open to any other locations, though.

This is something to consider, for sure. Funny how a question from curiosity can lead one down a whole new path of exploration.

J.Ja

[Tim]

I was graciously offered the use of one by Templar (commie weapon expert) for an AK class some time ago. It was reliable, accurate, and much lighter than you would expect it to be by looking at it. The model I was borrowing was also very well made. (FredM brought one that broke on him fairly early) The rifle was clearly capable of far better accuracy than I could wring out of it with my meager skills. At 200 yards offhand I had no trouble making shots on a 12" piece of steel, even with a hodgepodge of commie ammo. At closer ranges the only thing that kept me out of the X ring of an NRA bullseye was my own incompetence. The trigger took a bit of getting used to, but I adapted to it fairly easily once I started using a rolling break.

I did find all the sharp edges on the rifle annoying to the point where I wore gloves most of the time. It's been said in the past that the AK is like a cheese grater...well, the CZ is doubly so. The magazines are aluminum and specialized which means they won't be as to-hell-and-back durable or as cheap and plentiful as good AK magazines.

Overall I had a very positive impression of the rifle after using it for a couple of days and wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I had sufficient finances to own whatever I wanted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD%202%20050210%20Full/P1040689-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD%202%20050210%20Full/P1040690-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/My%20InRange%20vz-58/DSC00405.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/My%20InRange%20vz-58/DSC00414.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/My%20InRange%20vz-58/DSC00416.jpg



This is the rifle that I loaned to TC, with the man himself running it in the first two pictures. It was built buy InRange from one of the 100 Slovakian receivers imported into the US and a pristine parts kit.

The kit was from a basically unfired service rifle. The brake was permanently attached because the vz58 barrel is slightly shorter than 16". I had the carbine for several years and round count was around 5K when I traded it to a good friend who just had to have it.

My personal opinion on the vz58 is that it's a very interesting carbine that weighs less than an AKM (stamped receiver) even though it has a milled steel receiver. Very accurate carbine, and that accuracy could be improved by quality ammo and a good optic. As it stands with iron sights and typical Russian commercial steel cased ammo, you're looking at a 3-5 MOA carbine with a competent shooter behind it.

The weapon is striker fired, and the trigger is almost Glock like.

Magazines are indeed different than an AK, and are made from a very heavy duty aluminum. They are about 4 times the thickness of a GI M16 magazine.

Method of operation is a short stroke gas piston (like an FAL) and tilting bolt (very similar to the Walther P-38/Beretta 92 series). More than robust enough for the caliber it's chambered for, and softer shooting than an AK variant.

Troy is either making or importing an optic rail system similar to the Ultimak, which replaces the gas tube.

If you already have a quality AK variant, I'd say sure, pick one up. If you don't have a quality AK variant, I'd probably recommend the AK over the vz as you will have a much larger support structure in place for the AK.


As TC said, mine broke fairly early in a LAV AK operator's class in the spring of 2010. It turns out that my FFL installed (incorrectly, it turns out) a "match" trigger in the weapon. Something in the trigger mech broke (I forget at the moment what specifically), but Czechpoint repaired the rifle at no cost to me and promptly shipped it back. 1200 or so rounds later, it shoots just fine.

I like it so much I'm adding a second on to my collection.

The Slovak troops here like theirs just fine too.

And there is the lesson in all of this....stick with factory original D-Technik/Czechpoint vz58's and avoid the Century guns like the plague. If you're feeling really adventurous/contrarian, then find an excellent parts kit and a CNC Warrior receiver and have someone who knows what they're doing build it.

My rifle was built by InRange before other vz58's were readily available.

[jmjames]

This is the rifle that I loaned to TC, with the man himself running it in the first two pictures. It was built buy InRange from one of the 100 Slovakian receivers imported into the US and a pristine parts kit.

The kit was from a basically unfired service rifle. The brake was permanently attached because the vz58 barrel is slightly shorter than 16". I had the carbine for several years and round count was around 5K when I traded it to a good friend who just had to have it.

My personal opinion on the vz58 is that it's a very interesting carbine that weighs less than an AKM (stamped receiver) even though it has a milled steel receiver. Very accurate carbine, and that accuracy could be improved by quality ammo and a good optic. As it stands with iron sights and typical Russian commercial steel cased ammo, you're looking at a 3-5 MOA carbine with a competent shooter behind it.

The weapon is striker fired, and the trigger is almost Glock like.

Magazines are indeed different than an AK, and are made from a very heavy duty aluminum. They are about 4 times the thickness of a GI M16 magazine.

Method of operation is a short stroke gas piston (like an FAL) and tilting bolt (very similar to the Walther P-38/Beretta 92 series). More than robust enough for the caliber it's chambered for, and softer shooting than an AK variant.

Troy is either making or importing an optic rail system similar to the Ultimak, which replaces the gas tube.

If you already have a quality AK variant, I'd say sure, pick one up. If you don't have a quality AK variant, I'd probably recommend the AK over the vz as you will have a much larger support structure in place for the AK.



And there is the lesson in all of this....stick with factory original D-Technik/Czechpoint vz58's and avoid the Century guns like the plague. If you're feeling really adventurous/contrarian, then find an excellent parts kit and a CNC Warrior receiver and have someone who knows what they're doing build it.

My rifle was built by InRange before other vz58's were readily available.

Thanks for the additional information!

That is a REALLY nice looking rifle! Troy *seems* to no longer carry that rail system, but many outlets still have a few in stock. There is also a polymer version of the same, but I'm not sure what the quality of that is like. For about $80, Czechpoint will send it out with a side rail (similar to, but I don't think compatible with the AK side rails) and another $60 or so seems to get you a mount that fits it and positions the optics out of the way of that cavern of an ejection port. There's an outfit selling a small rail that fits on the forward part of the receiver too, but I don't think that anything bigger than an Aimpoint Micro or perhaps an EOTech should be put there due to the ejection pattern.

Also, thank you for pre-emptively answering the question that I didn't yet ask (though I had guess the answer to...) regarding D-Technik/Czechpoint vs. Century.

My AK itch is fairly well scratched right now, I have a Saiga 12 and I just sold my PSL/FPK, and a friend of mine will likely let me hold his WASR-10 if I feel like it... the VZ's seem really nice from everything said here, and I could see myself talking myself into getting one.

J.Ja

[jmjames]

Well, I just got home earlier today from the FFL with a VZ 58. It's a D-Techniks receiver, the box says "CZ USA" on it, and it was a safe queen, so it may be old enough to have been imported by CZ. If it has ever been fired, it was extraordinarily little.

Initial impressions are very positive. The gun is nicely finished. The previous owner Tupperwared it with the FAB Defense handgaurds and collapsable/folding stock. The top rail where the upper handguard was feels unmoving despite not being pinned in place (some rail designs use one of the pins to help hold it in place), but research online and a general look at the design does not have me hopeful on that score. The collapsing stock isn't the best, I think it is clumsy when folded, the hinge feels cheap, and it adds a lot of weight to an otherwise light gun. I honestly feel that I'd prefer it with the stock plasti-wood furniture over the current stuff.

Bonesteel Arms (who gets high marks in the AK community for their folding stocks) says they will have a folder soon for the VZ 58. Their stocks are CNC milled out of aluminum with an eye to light weight. I'll be ordering one of their stocks when available, and I'm ordering one of their rail sets (it's American-made, and I cannot find out if the ones Troy was re-selling are), which are well priced, look well designed, and are also pretty lightweight. The big thing for me now is to get an H1 on there. I'm tempted to save some bucks and go with a PRO, but this thing is so crazy light, I'm really eager to keep it that way. I'm also swapping the pistol grip with a US made one (in the current config it needs 2 US made parts in the magazine to stay inside 922r... getting those two parts on the gun lets me use cheap, available surplus mags).

My only other knock on the gun right now, is that it's got the 14.5" barrel with a welded on barrel extension. That barrel extension is not a brake, it's like a piece of metal. I'll likely replace it with a brake... or perhaps turn it into a brake myself.

So really, every "problem" I have with the gun is easily remedied.

Other observations...

* This is LIGHT. Like "AR light", if not lighter (though the metal mags + 7.62x39 make up for it).
* Very well constructed, nice fit/finish.
* Easy-to-understand internals.
* The controls beat an AK, but the AR gets the nod for a bolt release and better safety. The magazine release is a bit odd, it is positioned to the left and the trigger guard blocks it from the right a little.
* Mag insertion is a dream compared to the AK. It's still rock-n-lock, but not nearly as fussy. It's easy to insert on a closed bolt.
* The trigger has a touch of creep in it. Oh well.

I'm really looking forwards to hitting the range with this.

J.Ja

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have a fair bit of trigger time in on one. I took it through a Hackathorn carbine class in which it ran very well, and I work fairly closely with a guy whose previous business was designing aftermarket parts for them. And one of my company's clients is the company that builds the Troy VZ-58 stuff. So I have a lot of VZ exposure.

I like them. I run mine with what could be considered the Troy rail and a T1, and a tac bolt release that allows me to drop the bolt with my index finger without shifting grip. Mag changes are pretty slick. I have a slightly extended mag release as well. Also a CTR stock on a VLTOR tube that I had, with a stock adapter that puts the tube in line with the barrel.

It's a good setup. I far prefer it to AKs that I have used in the past, not that I have the option in Canada. The popularity of the VZ in Canada does make it logistically practical in a way that AKs are in the US.

[jmjames]

Out of curiosity, I put my VZ 58 on the scale today: 7.0 lbs. unloaded, no mag. That's with an RMR06, Inforce 6vx in an Elzetta ZRX mount, the FAB Defense handguards (it came with them, not my choice), and an ACE Ultra Lite stock on a Stormwerks receiver block. In comparison, my bone-stock AR (standard GI carbine handguards and stock, Aimpoint PRO on a QRP mount, no light, H2 buffer) comes in at 6.8 lbs. unloaded, no mag. The difference in weight is less than the weight of the light.

Yes, I can get the AR lighter (put an RMR on it too, swap the stock for a CTR or ACE Ultra Lite, lighter buffer), but even then the VZ stacks up pretty comparably. Once the new handguards come in, the VZ should drop a few more ounces I hope; the FAB Defense stuff is built like if the Russians finally discovered polymer <shudder>.

J.Ja

[joseywales10]

This was one of the best impulse buys I ever made. Customer Service at Czechpoint rocks. Its my go to in 7.62 x 39. I would definitely agree there's some wicked edges to her, but shes a lightweight, sturdy, accurate build. Mags were still available even after the initial surge. Only recently have they tried up some.

[el_nino]

I have got new army surplus magazines for VZ 58 / CZ 858 / VZ 2008, never used (stocked for 40 years). But I violated something, so I can not say more. Sorry, I am not english speaking native..

[Jay Cunningham]

You are in violation of our FSOT policy el_nino. You can either modify your post or I will modify it for you then issue you an infraction.

[Slavex]

Very popular up here in Canada. Tons of accessories made up here as well, optic mounts etc. Importable/exportable to the USA too.
Guys really like them here as an alternative to the banned AK. They run forever and mags are easily found.

[deejai]

I prefer to wear gloves when shooting the VZ. The handguards get really toasty after just a mag and theres some sharp corners at the rear of the receiver.

[CCT125US]

And there is the lesson in all of this....stick with factory original D-Technik/Czechpoint vz58's and avoid the Century guns like the plague.

Old thread but just curious what the issue is with the Century guns. AIM Surplus has a package deal going currently for the VZ2008 and am looking for an excuse not to spend the money. Honestly a simple "they suck" would probably do, as i am easily talked out of spending money on guns I know next to nothing about. Just thought it would be a fun alternative.

[TGS]

Old thread but just curious what the issue is with the Century guns. AIM Surplus has a package deal going currently for the VZ2008 and am looking for an excuse not to spend the money. Honestly a simple "they suck" would probably do, as i am easily talked out of spending money on guns I know next to nothing about. Just thought it would be a fun alternative.

They're horribly put together, no matter what clone you're talking about from Century. Their receivers are junk, too. Subpar materials, usually out of spec, ect.

Entire HK 'smithing business are built upon fixing CA93s, for example........and even then, they still can't get them to run sometimes.

If you took DPMS, Bushmaster, Taurus, and combined them together....it still wouldn't be the ball of suck that Century is. A Bushmaster Carbon-15 is probably a step up from any gun made by Century.

[helothar]

For some reason century decided to put a slant MB from the akm on them instead of the original comp that the guns had, its an abomination!

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[Lost River]

Shot a VZ 58 a fair amount when I was downrange. One was in our armory and it was a solid built, good quality rifle.

[jmjames]

For some reason century decided to put a slant MB from the akm on them instead of the original comp that the guns had, its an abomination!

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Of note, the Century VZ's use a 16" barrel, while the Czechpoints (and I *think* the D-Teknics) use a 14.5" barrel with welded-on extender (not a brake, not a flash suppressor, just a length of metal to make it longer). Pros on and cons to each, of course, but I did NOT enjoy groping around my muzzle with a Dremel to get the extension off to put on a MB.

J.Ja

[helothar]

Of note, the Century VZ's use a 16" barrel, while the Czechpoints (and I *think* the D-Teknics) use a 14.5" barrel with welded-on extender (not a brake, not a flash suppressor, just a length of metal to make it longer). Pros on and cons to each, of course, but I did NOT enjoy groping around my muzzle with a Dremel to get the extension off to put on a MB.

J.Ja

The Czech point website has a model with a MB on thar, although they've been out of stock for quite some time

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