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View Full Version : "What makes the AK so reliable?"



Jay Cunningham
01-19-2012, 11:19 PM
strong, well-designed magazines

lack of small parts

lots of room in the receiver

"overgassed" system

fixed ejector

taper of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 rounds



A correctly built AK is very robust and reliable. Most AKs in the U.S. are not correctly built. I've seen malfunctions of various types but I've personally never seen a parts breakage on an AK. I have seen FCG axis pins walk out and F everything up, though.

jumpthestack
01-19-2012, 11:55 PM
According to CJ Chivers book "The Gun", other factors are the heavy piston/bolt carrier, which helps to add momentum to smash through friction, and the fact that the stroke of the bolt is significantly longer than strictly needed to eject and feed.

Some people think the "lots of room in the receiver" is just about leaving room for dirt, but it's more than that. On my AR, I once had a blown primer get stuck in the gas key on the bolt carrier, turning it to a single shot, and I've seen someone get an empty brass case stuck in the charging handle area over the bolt. Not fun.

Jay Cunningham
01-20-2012, 12:04 AM
According to CJ Chivers book "The Gun", other factors are the heavy piston/bolt carrier, which helps to add momentum to smash through friction, and the fact that the stroke of the bolt is significantly longer than strictly needed to eject and feed.

I would not disagree with that.

jmjames
01-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Another one I'll add, is that maintenance is absolutely impossible to screw up, short of trying to use a file to get some carbon off the bolt face or something. And they are VERY tolerant of lax maintenance regimens, it seems like. A friend of mine just sprays some Rem Oil in his after he shoots it, it's absolutely disgusting inside but shoots just fine... and it's a CAI WASR-10 at that.

In addition, the simplicity of the design (I "got" the AK design by holding the bolt open and staring inside for a few seconds) lends itself to a well functioning device. There's just very little to go wrong, and when it does go wrong, it's easy to diagnose/fix, and if it can't be fixed, they are so cheap that you don't mind replacing it that much.

Finally, I think that AKs benefit greatly from lowered expectations. If an AR were to shoot 2" or 3" groups at 100 yards, folks would be tearing it down to figure out what was the issue. With an AK, it seems like folks would be grateful for a group like that.

J.Ja

BWT
01-20-2012, 12:51 AM
I'd agree, if they're made right, they'll run right, and for a long time.

That being said, God help you working on them... I hate that gun at times. Swapping a rear sight and I jacked up the rear sight spring, how? No idea. It had to go back to the factory for an initial defect, which Arsenal corrected. Installing a different pistol grip was awkward, (not really awkward as in complex... Just difficult, it's a 3 hand job, Try lining up a screw on the inside of a hollowed pistol grip), installing an ultimak gas tube was more difficult than I initially figured.

It kind of reminds me of a 1911. After this last venture... I think I'm definitely buying another AR, I love the AK, I haven't really broken it down and cleaned it yet, and I probably have hovering around 1,500-1,800 rounds through it, it's a lot of fun, it's just when you try to change something that they're irritating, as long as the gun is assembled correctly, I'd say you'll be happy.

I don't know that gas piston guns are that much cleaner than AR's, I can put my hand anywhere inside that receiver and get carbon/unburnt powder/oil on my hands, and it's just about the same as my AR in that regard.

Jay Cunningham
01-20-2012, 01:03 AM
It kind of reminds me of a 1911.

Oh, absolutely. Not necessarily in maintenance schedule but in build quality.

jmjames
01-20-2012, 01:06 AM
That being said, God help you working on them... I hate that gun at times. Swapping a rear sight and I jacked up the rear sight spring, how? No idea. It had to go back to the factory for an initial defect, which Arsenal corrected. Installing a different pistol grip was awkward, (not really awkward as in complex... Just difficult, it's a 3 hand job, Try lining up a screw on the inside of a hollowed pistol grip), installing an ultimak gas tube was more difficult than I initially figured.

I've actually found them quite easy to work with, in large part because there isn't much you can do. Installing the pistol grip is easy, pass the screw through the grip, hold it in place with the screwdriver, then thread it into the nut in the receiver, if it's a nut that is loose, hold the nut with the other hand.

The #1 best thing to do to make an AK easy to deal with is swapping the axis pin retaining spring with a retaining plate. They are less than $10 shipped and take it from "miserable" to "joyful". The only maintenance headache left then is the spring for the manual bolt hold open that you see on some variants (like the Saiga 12).

It's funny, I keep thinking about getting an AR for my next rifle (I just sold my PSL/FPK... that gun proved that you *can* have an unreliable AK, in this case the magazines were the issue), but the ease of dealing with the AK keeps bringing me back to it, and the cost. For the price of a decent AR, I could pick up a Saiga 308 and a random AK in 7.62x39 and have my bases covered all the way around.

J.Ja

DocGKR
01-20-2012, 01:57 AM
Gee...try changing the barrel on an AK.

AR's don't need much maintenance either...I am down to cleaning mine about every 3000-5000 rds; for optimal function AR's do need to be lubed.

jmjames
01-20-2012, 02:03 AM
Gee...try changing the barrel on an AK.

That's my #1 gripe with the AK platform. And it's not just for maintenance, like a worn out barrel, it's if you want to do fulfill any other role with it. At the same time, an AK is about the price of a decent AR upper...

J.Ja

Kyle Reese
01-21-2012, 09:33 PM
Another one I'll add, is that maintenance is absolutely impossible to screw up, short of trying to use a file to get some carbon off the bolt face or something. And they are VERY tolerant of lax maintenance regimens, it seems like. A friend of mine just sprays some Rem Oil in his after he shoots it, it's absolutely disgusting inside but shoots just fine... and it's a CAI WASR-10 at that.

I've seen AK's in Iraq & Afghanistan that would beg to differ. :D

Odin Bravo One
01-21-2012, 11:36 PM
I've seen AK's in Iraq & Afghanistan that would beg to differ. :D

I can't help but agree with that statement. The "good" AK's are built in Russia. The legendary AK's are built in Russia. Certainly some of the ComBloc countries made decent enough copies, but of the millions of AK's in the world, 90% are junk.............

jmjames
01-22-2012, 12:40 AM
I can't help but agree with that statement. The "good" AK's are built in Russia. The legendary AK's are built in Russia. Certainly some of the ComBloc countries made decent enough copies, but of the millions of AK's in the world, 90% are junk.............

I wouldn't be so sure that the Russian AKs are "good" all the time either. The history of the Saiga's has been that "vodka specials" are not all that uncommon. It seems to have been particularly bad with the Saiga 12... stuff like there being only gas port, or the gas port(s) being the wrong size (usually too small) keeping it from reliably cycling with the lower powered loads.

I think the AK design itself is sound, but the manufacturing techniques leave much to be desired. I am sure that any firearm produced under the same conditions as the typical AK would also have major issues, probably worse than the AKs do. Many of the manufacturing foulups with AKs are overcome by their design (bad gas ports vs. the over-gassed system, for example) and low expectations (the AK trigger being what it is, it's hard to notice if it was done badly... :D).

J.Ja

Jay Cunningham
01-22-2012, 01:22 AM
AK triggers are quite often nicer than AR triggers.

jmjames
01-22-2012, 01:30 AM
AK triggers are quite often nicer than AR triggers.

I honestly haven't had any experience in a long long time with ARs (and that experience was limited) so I can't compare, but I've had a fair amount of time with a number of AKs and variants lately... and the idea that there are ARs with worse triggers is frightening...

J.Ja

Tamara
01-22-2012, 10:45 AM
AK triggers are quite often nicer than AR triggers.

...but when they are bad, they are horrid. One mag from a full-auto 20ga Saiga left the pad of my trigger finger looking like a Vienna sausage gone bad. :(

Odin Bravo One
01-22-2012, 12:16 PM
My apologies if my previous post portrayed a belief that all AK's built in Russia are top quality. My point is that you are much more likely to find a quality AK if it was built in Russia than you are if it was built in Bulgaria, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.

Joe Mamma
01-22-2012, 06:00 PM
The #1 best thing to do to make an AK easy to deal with is swapping the axis pin retaining spring with a retaining plate. They are less than $10 shipped and take it from "miserable" to "joyful". The only maintenance headache left then is the spring for the manual bolt hold open that you see on some variants (like the Saiga 12).


I've worked on AKs a little, and know of the retaining plates. But I've never seen the need to use them. I've never had any problems with the shephard's crook spring. Maybe I just don't know any better?

When people talk about "junk" AKs and "bad" AK triggers, it all depends on what your definitions of those terms are. A lot of AKs may be junk, but they always always work. The flip side of that is having a very nice gun like a custom 1911 or custom AR that doesn't work reliably. If a gun is reliable, personally, I don't think I could call it junk.

I like typical AK triggers. They never have the crisp break of a good AR. But AK triggers are usually very light and very shootable in my opinion. My only complaint is the trigger slap which is relatively common. Maybe that's the cause of Tamara's vienna sausage finger!

Regarding AK reliability, there also must be something to the acceptable tolerances, or specifically, the design that allows a wide range of acceptable tolerances. There are so many poorly made AKs (even home made ones) that work reliably, it's amazing.

Joe Mamma

Odin Bravo One
01-22-2012, 06:49 PM
I
When people talk about "junk" AKs and "bad" AK triggers, it all depends on what your definitions of those terms are. A lot of AKs may be junk, but they always always work. The flip side of that is having a very nice gun like a custom 1911 or custom AR that doesn't work reliably. If a gun is reliable, personally, I don't think I could call it junk.

Regarding AK reliability, there also must be something to the acceptable tolerances, or specifically, the design that allows a wide range of acceptable tolerances. There are so many poorly made AKs (even home made ones) that work reliably, it's amazing.

Joe Mamma


If the gun is reliable, I wouldn't call it junk either.

But I stand by my previous post calling 90% of them "junk" for that very reason.

If we look at what makes a quality AK reliable, it is generous tolerances, yet built to a standard. It uses proven manufacturing methods and "good enough" quality components, bent, welded, and riveted to spec.

Given that the majority of AK's in circulation throughout the world are not built with QC/QA in mind, you end up with a ton of rifles that look like an AK, but do not perform like one built to the aforementioned specs. I would also go so far as to say that the majority of US built AK's far exceed the standard to which the majority of AK's are built, thus giving the domestic AK owner a false positive of what "most" AK's are capable of in terms of reliability, longevity, accuracy, and performance.

jmjames
01-22-2012, 08:08 PM
I've worked on AKs a little, and know of the retaining plates. But I've never seen the need to use them. I've never had any problems with the shephard's crook spring. Maybe I just don't know any better?

I worked on a WASR-10 without one, it wasn't a big deal... on a Saiga 12 with bolt hold open, it makes a big difference, because it's one less thing to pop free when futzing with the BHO. The retaining spring isn't bad without dealing with the BHO, but it's a nice convenience either way, and it's a more positive lock IMHO. I had a case or two where the retaining spring felt locked in, but it wasn't, and that's pretty tough to do with the plate.

J.Ja

Tamara
01-22-2012, 08:26 PM
A lot of AKs may be junk, but they always always work.

Leaving aside other peoples' guns I've fired, I've owned somewhere between a half-dozen and a dozen AKs. With the exception of one WASR-10, they were all Chinese; a couple milled/chromed Polytechs and the rest garden-variety stamped Norincos. I don't recollect that they were notably more or less reliable than the similar number of ARs I owned over the same period.

BWT
01-22-2012, 08:40 PM
I've actually found them quite easy to work with, in large part because there isn't much you can do. Installing the pistol grip is easy, pass the screw through the grip, hold it in place with the screwdriver, then thread it into the nut in the receiver, if it's a nut that is loose, hold the nut with the other hand.

The #1 best thing to do to make an AK easy to deal with is swapping the axis pin retaining spring with a retaining plate. They are less than $10 shipped and take it from "miserable" to "joyful". The only maintenance headache left then is the spring for the manual bolt hold open that you see on some variants (like the Saiga 12).

It's funny, I keep thinking about getting an AR for my next rifle (I just sold my PSL/FPK... that gun proved that you *can* have an unreliable AK, in this case the magazines were the issue), but the ease of dealing with the AK keeps bringing me back to it, and the cost. For the price of a decent AR, I could pick up a Saiga 308 and a random AK in 7.62x39 and have my bases covered all the way around.

J.Ja

Hate to say it, but mounting an optic is a nightmare. I think every idiot out there has proven they can build an AR or modify an AR. That also lends it to every idiot out there assembling AR's, which is why I think AR's at times get a bad wrap. I've had 3 magazine related malfunctions in my AR and 2 stuck cases, all I shoot is Wolf, and I'm probably at or over 2,000 rounds at this point.

jmjames
01-22-2012, 09:08 PM
Hate to say it, but mounting an optic is a nightmare. I think every idiot out there has proven they can build an AR or modify an AR. That also lends it to every idiot out there assembling AR's, which is why I think AR's at times get a bad wrap. I've had 3 magazine related malfunctions in my AR and 2 stuck cases, all I shoot is Wolf, and I'm probably at or over 2,000 rounds at this point.

That was one of my complaints with the PSL/FPK I just sold. Had a POSP scope with the right mount, but I'd invariably find that it was slightly shifting around; if I got the castle nut too tight I couldn't get it on, but too loose and it was all over the place. It was frustrating. I guess if it was a junk pile AK with 7.62x39 I probably wouldn't care as much, the expectation on those seems to be "minutes of bad guy" anyways, but for a small howitzer of a rifle, I felt like if I was going to lug it around somewhere, it should have the common courtesy of keeping the scope in the same place. The AK style scope mounts are very heavy, too. The scope mounting issue is something that keeps pulling me towards the AR platform.

In another thread, I was asking about the VZ 58... I know it's not an AK, but it sounds like a great rifle, until you look at the optics situation. Either you mount an AK side rail and use an AK-style mount, or you put something in the scout position way up front.

J.Ja

BWT
01-22-2012, 09:20 PM
That was one of my complaints with the PSL/FPK I just sold. Had a POSP scope with the right mount, but I'd invariably find that it was slightly shifting around; if I got the castle nut too tight I couldn't get it on, but too loose and it was all over the place. It was frustrating. I guess if it was a junk pile AK with 7.62x39 I probably wouldn't care as much, the expectation on those seems to be "minutes of bad guy" anyways, but for a small howitzer of a rifle, I felt like if I was going to lug it around somewhere, it should have the common courtesy of keeping the scope in the same place. The AK style scope mounts are very heavy, too. The scope mounting issue is something that keeps pulling me towards the AR platform.

In another thread, I was asking about the VZ 58... I know it's not an AK, but it sounds like a great rifle, until you look at the optics situation. Either you mount an AK side rail and use an AK-style mount, or you put something in the scout position way up front.

J.Ja

Don't get me wrong, I like my SGL21. It's a quality built Russian rifle, but, I just gripe about it when I decide to "project" something, and it goes awry. This is pretty much the standard of how me modifying guns goes, whereas with the 1911 and the AK I'm going to have to order parts, the AR... it irritated me, but it was a little easier. Kind of like the Glock.

That being said, my AK's been nothing but reliable, after it was squared away by Arsenal for a safety lever issue, I've had absolutely zero complaints.

P30shtr
01-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Hate to say it, but mounting an optic is a nightmare. I think every idiot out there has proven they can build an AR or modify an AR. That also lends it to every idiot out there assembling AR's, which is why I think AR's at times get a bad wrap. I've had 3 magazine related malfunctions in my AR and 2 stuck cases, all I shoot is Wolf, and I'm probably at or over 2,000 rounds at this point.


That was one of my complaints with the PSL/FPK I just sold. Had a POSP scope with the right mount, but I'd invariably find that it was slightly shifting around; if I got the castle nut too tight I couldn't get it on, but too loose and it was all over the place. It was frustrating. I guess if it was a junk pile AK with 7.62x39 I probably wouldn't care as much, the expectation on those seems to be "minutes of bad guy" anyways, but for a small howitzer of a rifle, I felt like if I was going to lug it around somewhere, it should have the common courtesy of keeping the scope in the same place. The AK style scope mounts are very heavy, too. The scope mounting issue is something that keeps pulling me towards the AR platform.

In another thread, I was asking about the VZ 58... I know it's not an AK, but it sounds like a great rifle, until you look at the optics situation. Either you mount an AK side rail and use an AK-style mount, or you put something in the scout position way up front.

J.Ja

Problem solved

http://texasweaponsystems.com/

jmjames
01-24-2012, 12:17 AM
Problem solved

http://texasweaponsystems.com/

Yeah, the Dog Leg is a good idea, I've seen them before but never in person. It's something where I'd like to see it in person to get a feel for how likely it is to eventually loosen.

J.Ja

Chuck Haggard
01-25-2012, 01:48 AM
I like AKs and have always thought they were fun, and I like the ballistics of the round. We have an actual type 56 Chinese army AK in our armory (actually two) that came off of the street. We have no idea how it came to be in our sorta fair city, likely a Vietnam bring-back. One of these guns has obvious high speed fragment impacts on the bayonet mount latch thingy.

Anyway, the trigger is awesome good, and not just for an AK. Long, but smooth and rather light. Makes me think of a tuned Python a friend of mine had. This gun has been shot for fun and fam-fire for the past 25+ years that I am aware of, I'm really sure it has never been cleaned.

That being said, I have never really met an AK that is more reliable than the Ars and M16s I have known, and the worst AR I ever shot grouped about as well as the very best AK I ever shot.


I just dumped my 5.45, selling it off to a bud, sold my SKSs, and have now one AK in 7.62 left that I will likely dump. I just find the AR system so much easier to deal with on so many levels, including optics, ergonomics, accuracy, parts, mods, etc.. It helps I guess that I have been to an armorer school taught by Ken Elmore amd know the ins and outs of the AR system far better than the AKs.

Kyle Reese
01-25-2012, 03:52 AM
I'm being issued an AK on my next gig over here. I'll let y'all know how it shoots.

Jay Cunningham
09-07-2012, 10:40 PM
I'm being issued an AK on my next gig over here. I'll let y'all know how it shoots.

Well??

Kyle Reese
09-07-2012, 10:59 PM
Well??

That was back in January. No AK on my current job, but it pays more.

Jay Cunningham
09-07-2012, 11:07 PM
That was back in January. No AK on my current job, but it pays more.

Did it get shot? Could you hit with it?

Kyle Reese
09-07-2012, 11:11 PM
Early 1980's Bulgarian AK, with fugly plastic stock. Ammuniton was Chinese copper washed 1965 vintage ball. About 120 rounds fired on the range, distance 25M / 50M. Accuracy was on par with what I'd expect from a 30 year old Kalashnikov with dodgy maintenance. Hits were made on target without issue and it was 100% reliable.

Jay Cunningham
09-07-2012, 11:12 PM
"Serviceable" then?

;)

Kyle Reese
09-07-2012, 11:14 PM
No complaints.

F-Trooper05
09-08-2012, 12:47 AM
Anybody see this yet?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seY9ZZxMFIQ&feature=player_embedded

Al T.
09-08-2012, 06:47 AM
Good one!

Odin Bravo One
09-16-2012, 11:51 PM
I had Jim and his crew build my latest AK, and while I agree with "some" of his points, as an SME on the platform, he gets to put forth a lot of "facts" on the AK that are really opinion. Still, hard to find a guy who knows more about the gun, and the work his shop puts out is top notch. There aren't many who would pay that kind of money for an AK, or wait as if it is a custom 1911, but I'm of the opinion that if it's worth having, it's worth having one that is set up properly from the get go. Their sights and selector lever (a modified Krebs) alone are a worthwhile upgrade. My Rifle Dynamics AK is the finest example of an AK that I have ever handled. I figure I have handled somewhere in the neighborhood of 3k to 5k, been issued 5 (2 Russian, 3 ChiComs), and fired at least 300 different examples from high quality Russian, to bottom of the barrel Paki/Khyber Pass hack jobs.

LHS
09-17-2012, 01:25 AM
I've formed the opinion that ARs aren't as unreliable as the Internet would have you believe (it's amazing what good quality parts and proper lubrication will do, vs. a craptastic Franken-build or Oly Arms junk that's run dry "to avoid attracting sand"), and the AK isn't as inaccurate as the Internet would have you believe (a lot of the accuracy issues lie in the iron sights, at least for me).

I've seen a full-auto Russian AKMS stovepipe, and I've seen one break a firing pin during a class. Most of the other issues have been either build quality (or lack thereof) or someone reassembling it incorrectly (most often the shepherd's crook).

I will say, one of the most amusing AK incidents happened when borrowing a SAR-1 for a shooting trip. The gun was just dribbling empty cases out the receiver, with no velocity. The brass was landing almost at my feet. So I stripped the gun, and found the gas tube almost completely choked with fouling. I knocked the biggest chunks out with the gas piston, put a few drops of lube on the bolt carrier, and it was running like a champ again, slinging empty steel several yards away.

LittleLebowski
09-17-2012, 06:20 AM
Sean, did you get the sights that have the rear opened up a bit? If so, I assume you don't find them detrimental?

TR675
09-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Concur on the "inaccurate AK" being at least partially down to the sights. I have an Arsenal 107CR that is phenomenally accurate at 100yds with Wolf when using an Ultimak mounted Aimpoint. "Phenomenally accurate" being a relative term, yes, but by which I mean it exceeded all expectations. It seems to group better than either of my Colts, so well that although it's been registered as an SBR I've never gotten around to having the barrel chopped...afraid of spoiling the magic, I guess.

Odin Bravo One
09-17-2012, 03:19 PM
Yes, opened slightly, and only graduated to 300. Also the RD front end/gas tube that allows me to make front sight adjustments with a flat tip screwdriver instead of any number of front sight tools. As with my ARs, the irons are only back up, but I don't see anything about the RD irons that are detrimental.

JHC
09-17-2012, 03:45 PM
I'm being issued an AK on my next gig over here. I'll let y'all know how it shoots.

A friend who was active Army SF, then NG SF with multiple deployments; alternated from NG deployments with security contracting gigs in Iraq. On one contract with a top name company in the genre they were in a big rush and their equipment (incl carbines) hadn't caught up with them yet.

They were offered a 55 gal drum full of AKs and told to pick one. One younger fellow; recently off military service quit on the spot! lol
Well this team was working security for a couple days non-stop before a break but with no gunfights thankfully. On his first shot finally test firing this AK; it grenaded on him. He was glad it had not come to shooting in those two days! About then their proper M4 type rifles etc showed up and all was good after that.

Anyway, do let us know.

Odin Bravo One
09-17-2012, 07:57 PM
A friend who was active Army SF, then NG SF with multiple deployments; alternated from NG deployments with security contracting gigs in Iraq. On one contract with a top name company in the genre they were in a big rush and their equipment (incl carbines) hadn't caught up with them yet.

They were offered a 55 gal drum full of AKs and told to pick one. One younger fellow; recently off military service quit on the spot! lol
Well this team was working security for a couple days non-stop before a break but with no gunfights thankfully. On his first shot finally test firing this AK; it grenaded on him. He was glad it had not come to shooting in those two days! About then their proper M4 type rifles etc showed up and all was good after that.

Anyway, do let us know.

Saw that quite often. Or get old buddies showing up at the compound begging for weapons and ammo. Sad.

The smart ones walked.

vaglocker
09-17-2012, 08:58 PM
Regarding the slr107c my accuracy actually got even better after I chopped the barrel. I say go for it.

jmjames
09-17-2012, 09:48 PM
I had a PSL/FPK, and I am *positive* that chopping the barrel would have worked wonders for accuracy. The barrel was pencil thin, and after a couple of magazine's worth of ammo, even with a good bit of time between shots, there would be so much heat coming off the barrel it looked like a rip in the fabric of time and space. I felt like the barrel was probably whipping a lot.

I always thought that if the barrel was shortened to 16" - 20" (a number of companies are shortening them to 16" now and putting a standard AK gas tube and piston in and relocating the gas ports), the whip would be much, much less and it would be great for groupings.

I've seen a test compare the PSL/FPK with a 26" barrel to the Saiga 308's with 16" or 20" barrels, with comparable ammunition (Eastern bloc spam can 7.62x54R vs. Privi Partisan or Wolf .308), and the Saiga 308 looked as good if not better on the groupings. Both guns were pretty comparable, G2 trigger, same (or comparable) optics if I recall, etc.

Personally, if I were to be getting into the AK game with an eye towards accuracy, I think I'd either get a Saiga 308 or a .223 variant, simply due to ammunition options. One thing I didn't like about the PSL/FPK is that while it was happy to chew through spam can 7.62x54R, the choices outside of that seemed pretty limited, and just as expensive as .308. It was a cheap, high powered, long distance plinker, but far too heavy and big for what it delivered.

J.Ja

Jay Cunningham
09-17-2012, 09:56 PM
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/101566723/Soviet_Russian_AK_47_Kalashnikov_Training_Poster.j pg

Just for a little ambiance.

Jay Cunningham
09-17-2012, 11:11 PM
I had a PSL/FPK, and I am *positive* that chopping the barrel would have worked wonders for accuracy. The barrel was pencil thin, and after a couple of magazine's worth of ammo, even with a good bit of time between shots, there would be so much heat coming off the barrel it looked like a rip in the fabric of time and space. I felt like the barrel was probably whipping a lot.

I always thought that if the barrel was shortened to 16" - 20" (a number of companies are shortening them to 16" now and putting a standard AK gas tube and piston in and relocating the gas ports), the whip would be much, much less and it would be great for groupings.

I've seen a test compare the PSL/FPK with a 26" barrel to the Saiga 308's with 16" or 20" barrels, with comparable ammunition (Eastern bloc spam can 7.62x54R vs. Privi Partisan or Wolf .308), and the Saiga 308 looked as good if not better on the groupings. Both guns were pretty comparable, G2 trigger, same (or comparable) optics if I recall, etc.

Personally, if I were to be getting into the AK game with an eye towards accuracy, I think I'd either get a Saiga 308 or a .223 variant, simply due to ammunition options. One thing I didn't like about the PSL/FPK is that while it was happy to chew through spam can 7.62x54R, the choices outside of that seemed pretty limited, and just as expensive as .308. It was a cheap, high powered, long distance plinker, but far too heavy and big for what it delivered.

J.Ja

The most accurate AK that I've deal with was a 5.56mm VEPR. Heavy sumbitch but man it was a 1.5 moa gun at 100m.