2H AIWB garment clear.

[Cory]

I've been using my weapon as an index point to clear my cover garment for a pretty lengthy amount of time at this point. I would say over 6 months at this point. I see some pretty decent advantages for myself, and wonder if anyone else does this or if anyone of note teaches this.

Advantages that work for me:
-Consistent reference point to grab.
-Works well with my natural stance.
-Mostly garment blind: material, position, and hem height have little impact for me. Flex has mild/moderate impact depending on garment.
-Weapon creates natural shelf/grab point for garment.
-Not dependent on hemline to clear cover. Makes seated draw easier (for me) and builds better consistency across multiple styles of dress/concealment.
-Keeps elbows closer to torso

Negatives/consideration
-Requires secure repeatable holster/belt.
-Tight fitting button ups will still allow rapid access, but may loose buttons or tear with explosive movement.
-Sharp rear sights (Trijicon HDs) can punish support hand until better consistency is obtained.
-Gun shape may help or hinder.
-Is not a 1 handed approach.


Pretty much sums it up. I just feel like using my weapon as what I base my garment clearing on has helped me get more consistent. It's pretty basic: grip, rip, present. I'm wondering what those who are better shooters than I am think of this method.

I took a video to better explain what I'm doing. Sometimes it's easier to see then it is to picture it, and sometimes it's easier to demonstrate then explain.

https://youtu.be/8O99M-4GQ8A

Does anyone else do this? Maybe I'm just off in the weeds.

-Cory

[orionz06]

AsianJedi showed this to me earlier this year and in working with it I do like it. It's also very useful for certain clingy hoodies (TAD Flux).

[AsianJedi]

Instead of the gun, think about using a more proprioceptive index point like your belly button.
You always know where it is and should be relatively close where you are grabbing now.

Also think about a more proprioceptove index to minimize movement in clearing the garment as well.
I suggest stopping at the sternum. It provides plenty of room to clear the gun, provides a repeatable stopping point easily myelinated to the subconscious. Finally you minimize movement leading to quicker draw times. This point is also closer to where most people marry the gun with their support hand. Again providing more efficiency in your draw.

[Cory]

Instead of the gun, think about using a more proprioceptive index point like your belly button.
You always know where it is and should be relatively close where you are grabbing now.

Also think about a more proprioceptove index to minimize movement in clearing the garment as well.
I suggest stopping at the sternum. It provides plenty of room to clear the gun, provides a repeatable stopping point easily myelinated to the subconscious. Finally you minimize movement leading to quicker draw times. This point is also closer to where most people marry the gun with their support hand. Again providing more efficiency in your draw.

Thanks for the input. You used a lot of big words here, and I'm going to pretend I understand them all without going over to google.

I do think grabbing the pistol itself works really well for me, and at this point I don't see myself changing to the belly button as the index of my draw. Mostly because it's already an established habit for me, and I feel that the feeling of the pistol against my stomach is an easy point of reference. The belly button doesn't have the same shelf that helps me grab the garment. I appreciate you're input on garment clearing that isn't hemline dependent, but can you shed any insight on the weapon itself as an index point? Is that something you have tried previously before moving on to your belly button? If so was there a measureable difference between the two in speed or consistency for you? Those question's are directed not only to you Scott (P&S podcasts are awesome btw), but anyone with experience using the pistol as the grab point.

I haven't really though much about the stopping point of the clearing motion. That's something I'll try to pay a little more attention to moving forward. I'll have to see where I'm stopping now, if I'm stopping in a consistent place, and If I am where that is. Some video review of myself will probably be happening to see if I can squeeze more efficiency out.

-Cory

[AsianJedi]

I have not experimented with grabbing the shirt at the gun. Mostly because on my draw both hands race to their respective positions simultaneously. Support to shirt over the belly button. Strong to gun. Obviously the support moves first so it can get there first. So if both were going to the same target (gun) I would imagine paths would get crossed with both hands going to the same destination.

This is all theoretical though as I have not experiemented with your way. That said proprioception for a position of the body is always going to be better than a position on the body.

[Mr_White]

Thanks for making that video cor_man257, and for the comments AsianJedi - it's great to see how other people work though these things.

This thread, plus an exchange in Les Pepperoni's training journal convinced me to take a look on video at what I actually do with above-the-hemline draws.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-zfTEifJg

[AsianJedi]

Thanks for making that video cor_man257, and for the comments AsianJedi - it's great to see how other people work though these things.

This thread, plus an exchange in Les Pepperoni's training journal convinced me to take a look on video at what I actually do with above-the-hemline draws.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-zfTEifJg

Looks like belly button to sternum to me man. :)

[Mr_White]

Looks like belly button to sternum to me man. :)

Yep, I agree. This is one of those instances where what I thought I was doing was a bit different than the reality. There is more lifting the shirt than I realized.

[AsianJedi]

Yep, I agree. This is one of those instances where what I thought I was doing was a bit different than the reality. There is more lifting the shirt than I realized.

Looks super efficient to me. I think lifting to the clavicle is overkill.

[holmes168]

Yep, I agree. This is one of those instances where what I thought I was doing was a bit different than the reality. There is more lifting the shirt than I realized.

Thank you for the video! Looks like your support hand meets the gun at the bottom of the sternum also. I need to think about my draw as I am coming more heart level. A lot to dissect in your video.

[Cory]

I wanted to bump this thread, because I think the topic has been better explained.

AsianJedi made this video that covers the idea I was trying to explain, but with a better method and better explanation. The video made me understand why what I'm doing works for me, and how I can make it work for me better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DjDBCtixiI&t=4s

-Cory

[AsianJedi]

I wanted to bump this thread, because I think the topic has been better explained.

AsianJedi made this video that covers the idea I was trying to explain, but with a better method and better explanation. The video made me understand why what I'm doing works for me, and how I can make it work for me better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DjDBCtixiI&t=4s

-Cory

Thanks for sharing this Cory. Glad you dug it.

[Robinson]

Good thread.

Not that I place myself in the same category as more advanced shooters, but my AIWB draw looks exactly like what is shown in AsianJedi's video. It worked well for me during the last class I attended.

Also, one thing I noticed watching Mr_White's video is that his left hand drops somewhat straight down while letting go of the cover garment before acquiring the two-handed grip. I just let go of my cover garment and move my support hand directly from my sternum over to the gun. This is definitely not a critique, just an observation.

[Mr_White]

Good thread.

Not that I place myself in the same category as more advanced shooters, but my AIWB draw looks exactly like what is shown in AsianJedi's video. It worked well for me during the last class I attended.

Also, one thing I noticed watching Mr_White's video is that his left hand drops somewhat straight down while letting go of the cover garment before acquiring the two-handed grip. I just let go of my cover garment and move my support hand directly from my sternum over to the gun. This is definitely not a critique, just an observation.

You are absolutely right that I do that and it is the weirdest thing. It is completely unintentional and seems to be an unconscious method that emerged for me early on with AIWB to deal with the clear-garment-join-hands transition. I think I must have been getting more thumbs and rear sights caught on the shirt and this is how my body solved it without asking me. ;)

[Mr_White]

AsianJedi

Nice video and instruction Scott!

[Dismas316]

Tagged for later, excellent thread.

[Larry T]

Mike Seeklander promotes a two-hand draw that leads and clears with the strong hand versus clearing with the weak hand. It seems to be a hair slower than traditional off-hand clearing but it also simplifies by carrying over to the one-handed clear and draw as if your off-hand was occupied. What's everyone's opinion on this approach?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbD9Iy4xh3U

[Robinson]

Mike Seeklander promotes a two-hand draw that leads and clears with the strong hand versus clearing with the weak hand. It seems to be a hair slower than traditional off-hand clearing but it also simplifies by carrying over to the one-handed clear and draw as if your off-hand was occupied. What's everyone's opinion on this approach?


I personally would not use that technique if I had both hands free, but it is something that should be practiced in case you ever need to draw one handed. With practice it can be done with reliable success but in my opinion use both hands if they are free because that method is even more reliable.

[AsianJedi]

Mr_White Appreciate that brother!

[Wondering Beard]

Mike Seeklander promotes a two-hand draw that leads and clears with the strong hand versus clearing with the weak hand. It seems to be a hair slower than traditional off-hand clearing but it also simplifies by carrying over to the one-handed clear and draw as if your off-hand was occupied. What's everyone's opinion on this approach?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbD9Iy4xh3U

That's actually pretty much what I do.

I'm far from an expert and tend to like things simple. Back in the late 90s, early 00s, when I was getting fully into appendix carry, I wanted to be able to draw my gun with one hand only for the exact same reasoning that Seeklander presents. Being a simple guy, I just wanted a draw that I didn't have to change whether I was doing it with one hand or two from easy to simple conditions (e.g. one hand on the steering wheel, one hand on the gun in case something could develop) and the method presented in the video was the way my body found it easiest to do it. That one draw works for just about every situation I could think of or had experienced. As Seeklander says it's far from the fastest, but the consistency across all situations works for me.

[JohnO]

I like the way Mike Pannone teaches the AWIB draw. In person Mike explains in further detail how the arc of the clearing hand (the bicep curl) pulls out and away from the body to avoid getting hung up on the gun.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYQn95h51s