My issued PX4, and my off duty weapon conundrum...

[JR1572]

My employer has been issuing 9mm PX4 F variants since 08. Prior to that they were issuing the 92F. While in uniform, this must be carried.

For the past few years, I have been assigned to a plain clothes assignment, and I have the option to carry pretty much whatever I choose. I have carried Glocks and even a P30, however, it becomes a pain in the butt because when I carry another pistol other than what's issued to me, I still have to have the PX4 with me. I have been carrying the PX4 just to keep things consistent.

Now, I have been carrying a 442 off duty. It's not the smartest thing to do, but I now want to change that and go with something else. But this where I cannot decide on what to do.

1) Should whatever I get be DA/SA? I carried a Glock 22 at the other agency I worked at before this agency and I am proficient with a Glock, but I don't want to get involved with 2 different systems.

2) I know the PX4 doesn't have the best track record, and I really don't want to buy a smaller one, but who else makes anything comparable?

I appreciate any advice.

JR1572

[enigma]

I am in the same situation. I am also issued the PX4 and I am in the process of narrowing down an off duty. I am leaning towards a Beretta 92 compact due to keeping a comparable trigger and controls. My agency previously issued the 96D so I have familiarity with the setup. I would gladly take my 96D back over the PX4.

[vcdgrips]

Buy the best belt/holster combo available, suck it up and dress arround the issue gun.
Stay on top of it re maint., cleaning/lube/known issues etc and simply work harder and smarter to master the issue weapon.

YMMV,

David

[TGS]

If I were in your situation, I would try to carry something in DA/SA. I don't know about you, but I'm not at a level of proficiency where switching between an HK and SIG, for example, would affect my performance. If your PX4 has the slide mounted decocker/safety, I would go with a similar clusterfuck arrangement.....I think that arrangement is the biggest liability between switching platforms.

The PX4sc shouldn't have any of the reliability issues that the fullsize has, FWIW. It's a conventional tilt-locking breech, not a rotating barrel. So, while it's pretty thick for its size, it isn't a terrible choice. I would rather go for a Beretta 92 Compact with an identical safety/decocker arrangement. The only other options I know of that are DA/SA with a slide mounted decocker/safety would be the S&W 3rd gen pistols, like the single stack 3903 or 6904/06 (Apologies if the numbers are off slightly).

[jmjames]

The only other options I know of that are DA/SA with a slide mounted decocker/safety would be the S&W 3rd gen pistols, like the single stack 3903 or 6904/06 (Apologies if the numbers are off slightly).

There are CZs and variants with the same. The Baby Desert Eagle (aka Jericho) is a CZ derivative with slide mounted decocker/safety; I recently had the opportunity to put some rounds through it and give it a very good internal inspection, and I was extremely impressed with its recoil management, accuracy (despite firing a "compact" model which felt a bit small in my hand and had a shorter barrel), and the quality of the craftsmanship. The metal showed no tool marks, it was extremely smooth running. My only complaint was that the position of the slide safety, combined with the low height of the slide, made a "slingshot" difficult and the short slide length (because it was a "compact" model) plus the low slide height made an overhand release a bit difficult. Don't let the "Baby Desert Eagle" name fool you, the only thing it has in common with the Desert Eagle is that it is imported by Magnum Research.

J.Ja

[3-7-77]

3rd Gen S&W's have similar controls to the Beretta. One like the 3013 or 6906 would be very comfortable to carry and they're known for being quite reliable.

[167]

I know PX4's are not highly regarded, but what are the typical problems seen with them? I haven't really been keeping up with the latest news on them. There is a local PD in my area that issues them too. Not sure which version or caliber though.

[TGS]

Here's what ToddG wrote about it over at another forum (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/77367-p30-vs-px4-pictures-2.html#post808304).


As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy.

[fixer]

I'd like to see more testing of the px4 also...the two px4 that I have perform great. I've shot rental mules that were also good. I've rarely come across someone who had poor service from the full size px4. The compact and the subcompact are another story...

[TGS]

I'd like to see more testing of the px4 also...the two px4 that I have perform great. I've shot rental mules that were also good. I've rarely come across someone who had poor service from the full size px4. The compact and the subcompact are another story...

What do you know about the compact and subcompact? I haven't heard anything about them other than the usual "I shot 150 flawless rounds, teh gun is the best evar!"

[fixer]

What do you know about the compact and subcompact? I haven't heard anything about them other than the usual "I shot 150 flawless rounds, teh gun is the best evar!"

For starters, the compact is a very new model and had a recoil spring problem right out of the gate. the updated recoil spring isn't really a cure-all because there are still some lingering issues with ejection and feed problems.

The subcompact seems to be more reliable than the compact but enough feed, ejection, finish, and occasional front sight issues that for serious carry and practice with a sub compact, you're manifestly better off with a g26/g27.

[TGS]

For starters, the compact is a very new model and had a recoil spring problem right out of the gate. the updated recoil spring isn't really a cure-all because there are still some lingering issues with ejection and feed problems.

The subcompact seems to be more reliable than the compact but enough feed, ejection, finish, and occasional front sight issues that for serious carry and practice with a sub compact, you're manifestly better off with a g26/g27.

I had no idea about those problems. Do you have any good reading on it to share, or was this an assessment made by monitoring various reports on the web?

Good to know, thanks.

[fixer]

I had no idea about those problems. Do you have any good reading on it to share, or was this an assessment made by monitoring various reports on the web?

Good to know, thanks.

berettaforum.net has a lot of good anecdotal posts about these issues.

thefiringline.com also has a good number of posts.

They both have good number of anecdotal posts about the full size px4 going back to the pistols launch.

I don't have any long term reliability studies on any px4...practically no one does except beretta...which is why I wish someone would go "Todd Green' on the platform.

I also don't save urls for posts on these pistols because the only px4 I like is the full size.