1911s build quality and grip discussion

[LittleLebowski]

I can't stand the "poor grip" excuse. If the weapon doesn't fire reliably except with good,strong two handed grip, what are you going to do with single handed fire? Continue to blame the shooter?

[WDW]

I can't stand the "poor grip" excuse. If the weapon doesn't fire reliably except with good,strong two handed grip, what are you going to do with single handed fire? Continue to blame the shooter?

+1
I have tried and tried and tried to produce a stoppage in my G21 by limp wristing to the point that the gun flies out of my hand almost...it has yet to happen. And if I ever come across a gun that won't work because I didn't squeeze it hard enouth, it is going bye bye.

[JHC]

10 1911's since '81, mostly rack grade; just a TRP and one custom as outliers. Numerous rookie shooters took their turns shooting them, never a stoppage for them. They've all been very reliable except for a briefly owned Gold Cup but I never found them to be sensitive to gripping just so.

[BLR]

+1
I have tried and tried and tried to produce a stoppage in my G21 by limp wristing to the point that the gun flies out of my hand almost...it has yet to happen. And if I ever come across a gun that won't work because I didn't squeeze it hard enouth, it is going bye bye.

Colt Defender is a subcompact "1911"

G21 is a full size 45.


You dont see the difference? I thought I was unambiguous on that. The smaller the mass (which means the smaller the pistol), the higher the spring rate. Which means the more critical it is to have as tight a grip as possible.

[Tamara]

It's not really an excuse. It's physics. And it is a feature of all recoil operated firearms, not just pistols. Also, the second hand in a two hand grip does more for stability than "tightness" of the grip.

A defensive firearm that requires a two-hand grip to function is worse than useless. Period.

There's a reason it's called a "Handgun" and not a "Handsgun".

I am not at all enamoured of 1911s shorter than 5" and just plain wouldn't trust anything smaller than a Commander, and that's years of sad, bitter experience talking. You couldn't give me a Colt Offender. :o

[LittleLebowski]

It's not really an excuse. It's physics. And it is a feature of all recoil operated firearms, not just pistols. Also, the second hand in a two hand grip does more for stability than "tightness" of the grip.

jmjames - you are correct to a point. You will find, however, when CZ production is attempted in the US, price goes up a bit. I'm not sure comparing eastern bloc countries to US manufacturing is quite right. And there are many, many, many more small block chevys being built than 1911s. Volume of production plays a role too. But this is academic too. So what if it is more expensive?

Yes, 1911s are sometimes expensive. And if you dont change the oil in your car, than a Glock might be a better choice for you. But so what?

Please don't try and turn this into a Glock versus 1911 battle. As in do not do so.

Are you saying that 1911s are universally more sensitive to less than perfect two handed grips, therefore negatively effecting the reliability of the weapon or just all handguns? I certainly do understand that some sort of a grip is necessary for reliable functioning.


Personally, I won't own a weapon that cannot run reliably in a less than perfect two handed grip or one handed. I have practical examples from my own life for believing this way.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0300.jpg

[BLR]

I guess I am at a loss to the confusion over this. It is simple physics: The less mass and more spring you have on a pistol (compact/subcompact), regardless of make, the more "mass" you need to have behind your grip. That means, simplistically, a better grip.

And how did my CQB thread get turned into this?

[LittleLebowski]

I guess I am at a loss to the confusion over this. It is simple physics: The less mass and more spring you have on a pistol (compact/subcompact), regardless of make, the more "mass" you need to have behind your grip. That means, simplistically, a better grip.

And how did my CQB thread get turned into this?

"Poor grip" was mentioned as a reason that 1911s malfunction by you. I don't think anyone is arguing with your pint about springs and smaller pistols. I am certainly aware that my Series I Kimber Pro Carry is less reliable than a well built 5" 1911 could be.

[cdunn]

while we are talking about 1911's and Deltas I found this today, not mine and don't know the person.
http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/257601/gonew/1/COLT_DELTA_ELITE_STAINLESS_STE#UNREAD
I will accept any finders fees you would like to send.

[LittleLebowski]

This is a placeholder for me to move over some off topic posts from another thread.

[Frank D.]

I have seen a Commander malfunction from what I assumed to be a limp-wrist (shot by a 12yo girl - it nearly booped her in the forehead), but man, it's pretty rare.

I think 'limp-wristing' is more often than not 'something-is-wrong-with-my-gun'. There are a lot of people out there who love 1911s but for one reason or another (inexperience with the platform, lazyness, low yearly round count) don't know how to keep a 1911 up and running. It doesn't take a genius, but it's time consuming and, if you don't enjoy tinkering, a pain in the ass.

So while I have seen limp-wristing happen, it doesn't happen nearly as often as the internets will tell you it does, and is usually indicative of something else.

[YVK]

There are two separate parts to a discussion "1911 and grip". As far as strength of a grip/"limpwristing" issue, a 1911 should be no different than any other pistol and should be able to fire one-handed, two-handed, from retention etc. etc.

A second aspect is that some folks can't deactivate grip safety reliably, individual grip variations and such. There are several solutions to that, variable in availability, price and implications.

[LittleLebowski]

There are two separate parts to a discussion "1911 and grip". As far as strength of a grip/"limpwristing" issue, a 1911 should be no different than any other pistol and should be able to fire one-handed, two-handed, from retention etc. etc.

A second aspect is that some folks can't deactivate grip safety reliably, individual grip variations and such. There are several solutions to that, variable in availability, price and implications.

I was in a hurry to fix a thread off on a tangent. Let me know if you have a better idea for the thread title.

[YVK]

I don't think you need to change anything, Lil. Your first post explains what you're getting at. I am simply pointing another reason how grip on 1911 can make things meh.