18650 Flashlights

[OnionsAndDragons]

I already stock and use 18650 batteries for my ghey e-cigarette, so I have been considering picking up a few compatible lights.

Anyone have experiences and possible recommendations for good 18650 compatible flashlights?

[SoCalDep]

What is the purpose?? For defense, general household use, outdoor survival, disaster, military, law enforcement, vehicle, etc?

[NH Shooter]

What is the purpose?? For defense, general household use, outdoor survival, disaster, military, law enforcement, vehicle, etc?

Also, what is your price point?

There is a bewildering selection of less-inexpensive Asian-made lights available (Fenix, Olight, Eagletac, Streamlight, etc.) but for serious use I'd look at Malkoff (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/), Elzetta (https://www.elzetta.com/) or Surefire (http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights.html).

Since I'm a Malkoff fan boy I'd suggest a MD2 Body and Switch (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/md2-body-and-switch) with a Hound Dog 18650 head (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-neutral-hound-dog-18650-head-only) or a complete MD2 Body (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-md2-black-type-iii-ha) with your choice of a P60 Drop-in (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/surefire-drop-ins-for-6p-g2-c2-etc-6-9-volts).

[FOG]

Ive been pleased with my Fenix headlamp and handhleld rechargeables. I keep an extra 18650 charged and ready to go. Sorry, Can't remember the models right now but both go up to 900+ lumens and were around $100

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[BillSWPA]

I have been using a few different generations of Klarus XT2C for a couple of years now, with good results. Before that, I was using 16650 cells in my FourSevens lights. If your light is set up for the voltage range of a single 16650 or 18650, you will get more power and runtime than 2xCR123 can provide, at lower cost.



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[OnionsAndDragons]

What is the purpose?? For defense, general household use, outdoor survival, disaster, military, law enforcement, vehicle, etc?

Sorry, was a bit tired when I posted and made mind-reader assumptions. EDC, defensive, household would be my primary uses.

A big driver of my question was that I know there are lights out there that work reliably with the battery but are not necessarily advertised that way, and I have a high degree of confidence that I can get decent info from a lot of you guys.


Also, what is your price point?

There is a bewildering selection of less-inexpensive Asian-made lights available (Fenix, Olight, Eagletac, Streamlight, etc.) but for serious use I'd look at Malkoff (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/), Elzetta (https://www.elzetta.com/) or Surefire (http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights.html).

Since I'm a Malkoff fan boy I'd suggest a MD2 Body and Switch (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/md2-body-and-switch) with a Hound Dog 18650 head (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-neutral-hound-dog-18650-head-only) or a complete MD2 Body (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-md2-black-type-iii-ha) with your choice of a P60 Drop-in (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/surefire-drop-ins-for-6p-g2-c2-etc-6-9-volts).

I'm by no means opposed to paying for quality/reliability. I'm more likely to go 2xSurefire-priced lights than one Elzetta even though I would like to own an Elzetta at some point.

I have not looked into Malkoff devices as much as I should considering the opinions of multiple people here I have converging views with. Thank you for adding to that list!

[OnionsAndDragons]

I have been using a few different generations of Klarus XT2C for a couple of years now, with good results. Before that, I was using 16650 cells in my FourSevens lights. If your light is set up for the voltage range of a single 16650 or 18650, you will get more power and runtime than 2xCR123 can provide, at lower cost.



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This is a big motivator in my thinking here. Doing a bit of research on the batteries just to learn, it became clear that the 18650 has a lot of advantages in light applications. I've heard really good things about that Klarus model, especially given it's affordability.

[BillSWPA]

Makloff makes a very good light. I use their LED dropins in a couple of formerly incandescent Surefires. The user interface has driven my current choice of Klarus. I like having high and strobe both immediately available from the tail switch, with medium and low being readily accessible for the vast majority of light uses when I don't need battery-draining brightness. The XT1C provides impressive performance with a single 16340, but unfortunately the switch does not have a momentary option.



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[martin_j001]

I have used Surefire (back in their incandescent days), and FourSevens in the past several years as LED prices have come down. I have been happy with my FourSevens lights for both pocket/every day carry use as well as around the house lights. I recently picked up my first Malkoff...an M61Hot MD2 with high/low (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights), and I am very, very pleased with this light. While the output may be lower than my previous light (when comparing raw numbers as given by the manufacturers), both the construction and the quality of the light (both components, build, as well as the actual light that comes out of the light--spill, throw, etc), are far superior to me. I am tempted to get something like the HoundDog head NHshooter posted above to run on the MD2 body, and snag an MDC or something for pocket carry. The MD2 I linked to may be a touch big for some to pocket carry, but it's very similar in size to other lights set up for use with 18650's.

[orionz06]

Klarus XT2CR comes with 18650 and usb charging built in.


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[blues]

If you can use a headlamp, I highly recommend the Nitecore HC30 (Neutral) (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EICSDSQ/ref=twister_B01EXZSHQG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)

It can also be used as a handheld or clipped on to your gear or clothing.

I've had mine for a year or more, it is used daily and has proven to be a great light with a good variety of modes.

Helped me spot the (large) black bear crossing the gravel road in front of me and the dog (and into our woods) on a late walk two nights ago.

Comes in handy for many tasks in and around the home and vehicle when two hands are preferable.

Otherwise, any of several Malkoff models get my vote for handhelds.

[Irelander]

I had a Nitecore MT26 and I really liked it. Can't remember why I got rid of it.

[ragnar_d]

I've been on a crusade to purge 123 lights from the inventory (with the exception of X300/TLR lights) and converting to AA/AAA/14500/18650 for most everything. I'm running a Streamlight 2L-X as my bedside light and Protac Railmount HL-X on two of my long guns and have liked them so far. I'm using Simon 18650 batteries and haven't had any problems. My 1L-1AA has been back to Streamlight twice for service. Once for the switch circuit, once for the main circuit board.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/8f01b892a54500a4bd9367d794ec2f0f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/241f980b6858c8f830d13ead08d11f61.jpg


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[Clusterfrack]

My current EDC:

Modified Klarus XT2C & Raven Clip, and other clip mods

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=18787&share_tid=27161&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpistol-forum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D27161&share_type=t

[NH Shooter]

I am tempted to get something like the HoundDog head NHshooter posted above to run on the MD2 body, and snag an MDC or something for pocket carry.

The Hound Dog 18650 is now my overall favorite light. When taking the dogs for their evening walk we have a Surefire 6PX Pro at the door for that purpose, but I always go to the bedroom and grab the Hound Dog instead. Even on low (30 lumens) the beam pattern is perfect and the run time with an 18650 cell is measured in the hundreds of hours. A short, easy twist of the head with my thumb and index finger activates high, which is impressive in both quantity and quality (beam pattern) of light.

My Malkoff MDC (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27606-Malkoff-MDC-Lights) replaced a Foursevens Quark and though I liked the Quark, the MDC is really in a different league in terms of build quality. Maybe Gene and Kathy package some kind of brain washing fairy dust with their products but now everything else seems like a toy compared to a Malkoff.

[scjbash]

I've been carrying a Nitecore P12GT since March. So far so good.

https://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-P12Gt-Flashlight-Cree-XP-L/dp/B017OBIY96/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1508358085&sr=1-3&keywords=nitecore+p12gt

[John10-19]

I would recommend the Surefire P1R. I carry it on my duty belt and it has been excellent.
https://smile.amazon.com/SureFire-Peacekeeper-Dual-Output-Rechargeable-Flashlight/dp/B00JYVJ24G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1508526341&sr=8-3&keywords=surefire%2Bp1r%2Bpeacekeeper&th=1

I purchased these Orbtronic batteries to use in the light and have been very happy with the results:
https://www.orbtronic.com/protected-3400mah-18650-li-ion-battery-panasonic-ncr18650B-orbtronic

I would also consider the new Streamlight HL-X
https://smile.amazon.com/Streamlight-88064-ProTac-HL-X-batteries/dp/B06WGN8P7Z/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1508526284&sr=8-2&keywords=HL-X

With both Surefire and Streamlight you are making a one time purchase and they will fix or replace the light if you have any issues.

I have wasted money on the Chinese lights including Eagle Tac and learned that when you have problems you are expected to email it back to China or Hong Kong. In my case, EagleTac still didn't fix the problem or replace the light.

I have spent over $2K on Surefire handheld and weapons lights over the years and have always been impressed with their durability.

The only Streamlight that ever failed was replaced and mailed to me in a couple days.

I regret the $4-500 I have spent with the Chinese flashlight manufacturers(FourSevens, Fenix, Eagletac) in my experience they often had issues with switching, or thermal regulation and were not as reliable.

[ragnar_d]

I would also consider the new Streamlight HL-X
https://smile.amazon.com/Streamlight-88064-ProTac-HL-X-batteries/dp/B06WGN8P7Z/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1508526284&sr=8-2&keywords=HL-X

With both Surefire and Streamlight you are making a one time purchase and they will fix or replace the light if you have any issues.

[snip]

The only Streamlight that ever failed was replaced and mailed to me in a couple days.

The HL-X is on my short list for a bedside light. The 2L-X is awesome an the HL-X railmounts will throw some lumens. I'm a big fan.

As for service, I'll second that. I've sent my 1L-1AA in twice and tracking the service order on the Streamlight website showed the light getting in and back out in the same day. I cannot argue with that turnaround. Twice I've called Surefire for some busted pocket clips, they sent them out no questions asked.

I just wish that Surefire would do some more rechargeable stuff in 18650 or 14500. An E2DL that took 18650s would be on my "Must Buy" list.


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[GRV]

I like my Streamlight 2L-X too. I've been running 2 CR123As in it, but I plan on switching to the Orbtronic 3400 mAh 18650 in the near future.

[NH Shooter]

I would also consider the new Streamlight HL-X


Like most Streamlight products, the HL-X is also made in China (see bottom of the HL-X Fact sheet (http://www.streamlight.com/docs/default-source/fact-sheet/280.pdf?sfvrsn=4)) but as stated Streamlight CS is generally good in the event of a problem. FWIW, I carry a Streamlight PolyTac (http://www.streamlight.com/en/products/detail/index/polytac) with primary cells in my car for emergency use and consider it excellent for that application.

I also own a Surefire PR1 and can second it as a very solid choice - it remains one of my go-to lights. To the best of my knowledge it is only sold with a battery and charger as a kit.

As much as I like the PR1, the slightly larger Malkoff Hound Dog 18650 outperforms it by a large margin, both in spec and in use. Though the Hound Dog is too bulky for pants pocket carry, it fits comfortably in a jacket pocket or in a Blackhawk light holster. My thoughts on the Hound Dog 18650 vs. the PR1 here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23395-Malkoff-Hound-Dog-18650).


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/handheld-1.jpg

[Casey]

Another Malkoff fan here. I have the M61HOT MD2 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61hot-md2?variant=21235086787) with high/low head and one of Don McLeish's Ti pocket clips (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?323373-Pocket-clip-amp-new-option) custom installed by Barry Milton (http://precision.works/). The light will take other clips meant for 6P size bodies, but too much of the tailcap hangs out of the pocket for my liking, and the much deeper ride of the McGizmo clip is preferable for me.

The MD2 switches from high to low by loosening the bezel one quarter turn. Genius. No longer do you have to worry about what mode the light is going to come on in. Leave it in high and it always comes on in high—and only high—when the tailcap switch is activated. Doing ninja stuff and want low mode to avoid giving away your position? No need to flash the light from high to low with the tailcap, just twist the bezel and the light goes directly to low mode.

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/2182/yZlAYb.jpg

[NH Shooter]

Another Malkoff fan here. I have the M61HOT MD2 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61hot-md2?variant=21235086787) with high/low head and one of Don McLeish's Ti pocket clips (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?323373-Pocket-clip-amp-new-option) custom installed by Barry Milton (http://precision.works/). The light will take other clips meant for 6P size bodies, but too much of the tailcap hangs out of the pocket for my liking, and the much deeper ride of the McGizmo clip is preferable for me.


That clip looks like it was made for the MD2 body. I've seen these on the Oveready site and have been tempted to try one out - you just convinced me to do so!

[martin_j001]

Another Malkoff fan here. I have the M61HOT MD2 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61hot-md2?variant=21235086787) with high/low head and one of Don McLeish's Ti pocket clips (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?323373-Pocket-clip-amp-new-option) custom installed by Barry Milton (http://precision.works/). The light will take other clips meant for 6P size bodies, but too much of the tailcap hangs out of the pocket for my liking, and the much deeper ride of the McGizmo clip is preferable for me.

The MD2 switches from high to low by loosening the bezel one quarter turn. Genius. No longer do you have to worry about what mode the light is going to come on in. Leave it in high and it always comes on in high—and only high—when the tailcap switch is activated. Doing ninja stuff and want low mode to avoid giving away your position? No need to flash the light from high to low with the tailcap, just twist the bezel and the light goes directly to low mode.

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/2182/yZlAYb.jpg

Must. Have. That looks like a perfect setup...I am carrying the same light currently.

[Rich@CCC]

I'll chime in as the resident cheapskate.

I own several Fenix PD series lights, as well as a couple Streamlights and Sure Fire torches. None of them have ever failed(other than batteries dying at inopportune moments).

Take that for what it's worth, I'm not a law enforcement officer or active duty soldier. I don't use my lights as attitude adjustment or perp control devices. I use them as flash lights. I do use them every day. They do get used when camping or hunting occasionally, but even then I don't abuse them.

I have had only one light ever fail catastrophically and the was a real cheap unbranded chicom AA pen light that just went belly up after about a year of regular use. No warranty but the replacement was just as cheap as the original and is still running.

In summary, unless you need a light that doubles as a baton or brass knuckle(and they may even be good for that too) I vote Fenix PD series lights as the best bang for the buck out there.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I'm so glad I started this thread. :)

It's looking like ima buy an MD2, probably the high throw version. It has the minimalist controls I want with crazy good specs for the price. It's also the right form factor for me. I might even try to get a second onto my Yule list...


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[blues]

I'm so glad I started this thread. :)

It's looking like ima buy an MD2, probably the high throw version. It has the minimalist controls I want with crazy good specs for the price. It's also the right form factor for me. I might even try to get a second onto my Yule list...


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You won't regret your decision to purchase a Malkoff...unless it leads to many other Malkoffs in which case your wallet might end up a bit thinner.

[BobLoblaw]

I'll chime in as the resident cheapskate.

I own several Fenix PD series lights, as well as a couple Streamlights and Sure Fire torches. None of them have ever failed(other than batteries dying at inopportune moments).

Take that for what it's worth, I'm not a law enforcement officer or active duty soldier. I don't use my lights as attitude adjustment or perp control devices. I use them as flash lights. I do use them every day. They do get used when camping or hunting occasionally, but even then I don't abuse them.

I have had only one light ever fail catastrophically and the was a real cheap unbranded chicom AA pen light that just went belly up after about a year of regular use. No warranty but the replacement was just as cheap as the original and is still running.

In summary, unless you need a light that doubles as a baton or brass knuckle(and they may even be good for that too) I vote Fenix PD series lights as the best bang for the buck out there.

I'm with you. Buy once, cry once when it comes to tools is usually a good idea. The reasoning behind it is sound because the speed of mechanical advancement is relatively slow and much slower than elec. tech. advancement. Those costs do add up (especially when you buy backups) and with advancement comes obsolescence. Now, if it's a duty light, buy the best and don't look back. However, if it's an EDC or "general use" flashlight, buy something with a good track record and if it dies one day, throw it in the trash, grab your backup, and buy the newer/brighter/longer lasting light that has already taken its place.

[NH Shooter]

You won't regret your decision to purchase a Malkoff...even it leads to many other Malkoffs in which case your wallet might end up a bit thinner.

FIFY ;-)

The beam of a TIR lens (such as the M61T and M61HOT) is much different than that of a reflector. The Don McLeish reflector used in many Malkoff drop-ins creates a beautifully smooth and even pattern with the typical hard cut off at the edge of the spill. In comparison, the TIR renders a wider but dimmer beam with a gradually diminishing edge, and a tighter, brighter hot spot in the middle. As they say on the Malkoff site, the TIR lens is not intended for "white wall hunters" who value a smooth and ring-free beam pattern over everything else. It's really something that you'll need to see first hand to determine which you prefer.

FWIW, I prefer a TIR lens for WML duty and reflector for hand held. That said, I could easily live with either for all applications.

[Dagga Boy]

Because of you enablers, I just ordered an MD2 Hot, without the high/low (for a defensive light, I want the sun with no chance of not getting it). I am going to try to see if I can get a separate crenulated head. I want this for a travel light. Basically, I want the option to add the crenulated head or remove it for times when security people may have to go to a safe space if they see it. Also, may want to not tear up some clothing. My sort of de facto non lethal "thing" is usually a fist loaded light. Not for everyone, but what I am used to using for interpersonal close quarters behavior modification.

[blues]

Because of you enablers, I just ordered an MD2 Hot, without the high/low (for a defensive light, I want the sun with no chance of not getting it). I am going to try to see if I can get a separate crenulated head. I want this for a travel light. Basically, I want the option to add the crenulated head or remove it for times when security people may have to go to a safe space if they see it. Also, may want to not tear up some clothing. My sort of de facto non lethal "thing" is usually a fist loaded light. Not for everyone, but what I am used to using for interpersonal close quarters behavior modification.

Congrats. I don't think you'll regret your decision. (I've no experience with the crenelated heads.)

BTW, I completely agree, Darryl. I think a "fist loaded light" is a very good option for both striking and / or momentarily blinding an opponent.

I tend to think of my robust folding knife in the same way in an emergency. As a potential striking tool vs. something to cut or slash with.

Obviously, mileage and opinions will vary in this regard.

[Dagga Boy]

Congrats. I don't think you'll regret your decision. (I've no experience with the crenelated heads.)

BTW, I completely agree, Darryl. I think a "fist loaded light" is a very good option for both striking and / or momentarily blinding an opponent.

I tend to think of my robust folding knife in the same way in an emergency. As a potential striking tool vs. something to cut or slash with.

Obviously, mileage and opinions will vary in this regard.

When I was writing a lot for Surefire, I always had the newest latest and greatest lights and was a very early employer of the crenulated heads in the field....with very good results. The knife thing is funny. I have only had a couple of actual knife usages on the street and one of the most significant ones was with a closed custom Emerson CQC 6 that was very effective. A "hammer fist" is my absolute go to since I started in cop work in 1988. I have hit a ton of folks for real like this in a very wide variety of postures and situations. The simple addition of something hard or something pointy into that hammer fist makes it much more effective as force needs to get ramped up, yet keeps the core application and training for that application, identical.

[blues]

...The knife thing is funny. I have only had a couple of actual knife usages on the street and one of the most significant ones was with a closed custom Emerson CQC 6 that was very effective. A "hammer fist" is my absolute go to since I started in cop work in 1988. I have hit a ton of folks for real like this in a very wide variety of postures and situations. The simple addition of something hard or something pointy into that hammer fist makes it much more effective as force needs to get ramped up, yet keeps the core application and training for that application, identical.

Exactly my point of view. And it's a lot easier on my knuckles which can't take the same abuse they did years ago when I sparred regularly and did other stupid things with my hands.

I no longer have my Emersons or my Benchmade Emerson knives...but I have been mistaken for Ernie a few times at the Blade Show in years past...though I'm a few inches taller than he is. LOL.

[BillSWPA]

One thing I like about Surefire flashlights is that the crenellations are relatively discreet. This is not the case with some other makers. Turning a flashlight into an obvious weapon tends to defeat its usefulness as a defenseive tool.

[NH Shooter]

Because of you enablers, I just ordered an MD2 Hot, without the high/low (for a defensive light, I want the sun with no chance of not getting it). I am going to try to see if I can get a separate crenulated head.

Malkoff makes a crenulated head but you may loose some spill with it due to the smaller (16.5 vs. 22.3 mm) opening;

https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/copy-of-mdx-16-5-head-black-ha-iii

Another option to consider adding;

https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-tricap-tailcap-switch-for-md2-md3-or-md4

[GRV]

Other than the head/tail options, what does a Malkoff (say the MD2) offer over a Streamlight 2L-X?

[NH Shooter]

Other than the head/tail options, what does a Malkoff (say the MD2) offer over a Streamlight 2L-X?

I do not own the 2L-X but I do carry a PolyTac (http://streamlight.com/docs/default-source/fact-sheet/313.pdf) in my car. Here is the 2L-X Fact Sheet (http://streamlight.com/docs/default-source/fact-sheet/281.pdf?sfvrsn=6) from the Streamlight website.

In response to your question based on the Fact Sheet and my ownership of other Streamlight products;


The Malkoff has a much more durable build. The 2L-X weighs 4.4 ounces with an 18650 cell, my M61T MD2 weighs 6.1 ounces with the same cell.

The Malkoff has fully potted electronics for impact/recoil resistance, the 2L-X does not.

The Malkoff has IMO a better UI for switching between high and low output (turning the bezel vs. multiple pokes of the tailcap switch with the 2L-X)

The beam color of the Polytac is very blue and the beam has obvious rings and artifacts (this is my biggest gripe with the PolyTac). The Malkoff with the Don McLeish reflector is renown for its smooth and artifact-free beam pattern. The Malkoff neutral version of their drop-ins offer a very pleasing color temperature, even the "cool" versions (6200K) are warm and pleasing compared to my PolyTac.

The Malkoff is made in the USA, the 2L-X in China



While Streamlight offers great value for the price, Malkoff is in a different league altogether. Here is a good Malkoff MD2 Review (http://flashlightguide.com/2013/11/review-malkoff-md2-flashlight/).

[HCM]

Apparently Surefire's new scout light uses 18650's.

21273

http://www.recoilweb.com/finally-surefires-new-1500-lumen-scout-light-130651.html

[orionz06]

Apparently Surefire's new scout light uses 18650's.

21273

http://www.recoilweb.com/finally-surefires-new-1500-lumen-scout-light-130651.html

It's fabulous!

[Default.mp3]

SureFire is also going to be releasing a 1500 lumen Fury mid-November that takes 18650s.

[OnionsAndDragons]

The Malkoff has fully potted electronics for impact/recoil resistance, the 2L-X does not.


I just want to point out that this is a legit big deal, and one of the things that convinced me that an MD light is in my future. The design and build of these lights seem incredibly well thought out.

The wife always has trouble finding me gifts because I'm the guy that rarely ever spends money, so when I really want something I can just get it. I'm holding off until the Yule season is over, because I'm pretty sure she is going to get me one. This way, when I buy a second I can use it as a compliment on what a great gift she got me! Had to have another. :)


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[GRV]

Just how much of a big deal is full potting for an EDC light? I ask because there are a number of serious cool action guys who have done way more with a flashlight than any of us ever will who carry Streamlights, Surefires, etc. EDC and swear by them and even feel comfortable mounting those same lights to serious use weapons (choosing them for the task of operating satisfactorily under recoil in lethal force situations). And I don't just mean celebrity faces, but serious SMEs that are very knowledgeable and critical of their gear. The quality/durability is generally reported to be very high and the customer service is legendary.

Setting aside the durability concern, when I look at the MD2, on paper it looks larger (bezel), heavier, harder to carry regarding clip options, more expensive, lower output, and shorter battery life than the 2L-X for example. Am I misunderstanding the real spec differences, or is the full potting or whatever other build quality aspect of the Malkoff really enough to outweigh all the other stuff and make it a better EDC light for people?

Alternatively maybe this is just a Wilson Supergrade vs. Glock debate and the MD2 is just cooler and people get more satisfaction from the experience of having that build quality that it outweighs all the other stuff. Rock on, I'm not interested in trying to shoot anyone down for that. (If anything, from pics I agree and I'd like an excuse to buy one!) I'm just legitimately curious if I'm misunderstanding something factual, or alternatively if my own weighing of Streamlight build quality vs. Malkoff is not calibrated to the seriously experienced opinions out there.

[Dagga Boy]

I just got my Malkoff MD2HOT and I am super impressed. I have been deep in the low light stuff since the first Laser Products Sure Fire light (that I still have). If you are doing serious low light work, it requires serious lights that will take a beating. My first rechargeable Maglite that survived almost 20 years of cop work with 19 of those being night shift, and was heavily used as an impact weapon is still riding in my truck. My Surefire stuff has been awesome. The streamlight stuff I have had is good and certainly a viable choice, but they are not a Malkoff. Does it make a huge difference.....not likely. with that said, I am fairly demanding on low light stuff because flashlights are so critical for any low light stuff. Because I am far more likely to use a light in a criminal encounter, or as a deterrent to one, the extra quality of a Malkoff or Surefire is important to me and does make a difference.

[blues]

I just got my Malkoff MD2HOT and I am super impressed. I have been deep in the low light stuff since the first Laser Products Sure Fire light (that I still have). If you are doing serious low light work, it requires serious lights that will take a beating. My first rechargeable Maglite that survived almost 20 years of cop work with 19 of those being night shift, and was heavily used as an impact weapon is still riding in my truck. My Surefire stuff has been awesome. The streamlight stuff I have had is good and certainly a viable choice, but they are not a Malkoff. Does it make a huge difference.....not likely. with that said, I am fairly demanding on low light stuff because flashlights are so critical for any low light stuff. Because I am far more likely to use a light in a criminal encounter, or as a deterrent to one, the extra quality of a Malkoff or Surefire is important to me and does make a difference.

Congrats, Darryl. They make a great product and are great folks to boot.

[Dagga Boy]

Congrats, Darryl. They make a great product and are great folks to boot.

After taking to Gene and getting a personal note from Cathy on my invoice, I actually liked giving these folks money.

[blues]

After taking to Gene and getting a personal note from Cathy on my invoice, I actually liked giving these folks money.

Exactly. That's how they are. I've chatted with them on a whole litany of topics, many of which have little to do with lights. Money well spent.

[JAD]

I play with large (1.5 kWh to 6 MWh) lithium ion battery packs for a living. Sometimes I jack with 18650s. Please keep in mind:
1) The fire that comes out of an 18650 is pretty exciting. Think a groundflower with a 2 foot jet and up to 600C.
2) The self protection circuitry in cylindrical cells is only as good as the maker.
3) Country of origin is almost an absolute predictor for quality with lithium ion. Malkoff sells, for example, Keeppower, which is some (probably variable by supply) OEM with shrink tube over it. Good luck with that.

There are a lot of other caveats attendant to running LI without a battery management system -- a fully discharged LI will plate out like a son of a bitch when charged; an LI charged below freezing will plate out like a son of a bitch; etc. All of which things are fine as long as the protection circuitry works.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you must, and I wouldn't, I'd use LFP cells (3.2V) from K2. They're not made in the US yet, but I honestly believe they're going to get around to it, and K2 does enough .mil to be pretty reliable.

[blues]

I believe the KeepPower 18650 batteries I have are Sanyo / Panasonic fwiw. If I recall correctly the parts are sourced from Japan and assembled in China.

[GRV]

I didn't understand the M61HOT option; the output on that kinda changes the game. Still not sure I could pull off the form factor though....Are there any good clips compatible with the MD2 that will ride the tail flush to the pocket hem?

JAD, do you know anything re the Orbtronic 18650s? https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery

[NH Shooter]

Just how much of a big deal is full potting for an EDC light?

As long as it doesn't take one-too-many free-fall trips to the pavement, none whatsoever.

[NH Shooter]

Are there any good clips compatible with the MD2 that will ride the tail flush to the pocket hem?

http://www.oveready.com/clip-store/1-0-light-spring-stainless-steel-clip/prod_445.html

I'll post a photo as soon as I install mine.

[PearTree]

I play with large (1.5 kWh to 6 MWh) lithium ion battery packs for a living. Sometimes I jack with 18650s. Please keep in mind:
1) The fire that comes out of an 18650 is pretty exciting. Think a groundflower with a 2 foot jet and up to 600C.
2) The self protection circuitry in cylindrical cells is only as good as the maker.
3) Country of origin is almost an absolute predictor for quality with lithium ion. Malkoff sells, for example, Keeppower, which is some (probably variable by supply) OEM with shrink tube over it. Good luck with that.

There are a lot of other caveats attendant to running LI without a battery management system -- a fully discharged LI will plate out like a son of a bitch when charged; an LI charged below freezing will plate out like a son of a bitch; etc. All of which things are fine as long as the protection circuitry works.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you must, and I wouldn't, I'd use LFP cells (3.2V) from K2. They're not made in the US yet, but I honestly believe they're going to get around to it, and K2 does enough .mil to be pretty reliable.Given all you stated, what would you recommend for an 18650 battery? Any brand in particular? I know you mentioned k2, got a link? Or do you like cr 123s better? I like 18650s because I can charge extra batteries in my patrol car, which gives me days of continuous use on the flashlights I carry.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Leroy Suggs]

Get Orbtronic 3500 mAh 18650.
It is a Panasonic-Sanyo cell with Seiko protection circuit.
The KeepPowers are good too.
Get a high quality charger.
Be happy.

[NH Shooter]

Given all you stated, what would you recommend for an 18650 battery?

I've been using KeepPower 18650 (http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Keeppower%2018650%203400mAh%20%28Black%29%20UK.htm l) cells in my lights for years with zero issues. They appear to be a well made - Panasonic battery, circuit board made in Japan, finished cell assembled in China. Based on my own experience with them thus far, they can be used with confidence.

[JAD]

My bad; I didn’t realize KP was soldering a wee BMS to the cell, but it does make me feel a lot better.

That said, please don’t charge LI batteries below freezing.

[BillSWPA]

I will second the recommendation of seeking Panasonic (which includes Sanyo) internal cells when buying Li-Ion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAD]

Panasonic/Sanyo, Sony, LG, Molicel for NMC. A123 or K2 for LFP (much safer but a different voltage which will be a charger issue; but much safer). I mostly buy LG but that’s driven to some degree by COO. The LG MJ1 is the cell most comparable to the Panasonic Bs that KP uses.

[GRV]

http://www.oveready.com/clip-store/1-0-light-spring-stainless-steel-clip/prod_445.html

I'll post a photo as soon as I install mine.

Looking for something that would leave nothing sticking out over the top. Something that mounts lower and hooks over, if that makes sense.

[NH Shooter]

Looking for something that would leave nothing sticking out over the top. Something that mounts lower and hooks over, if that makes sense.

I know the style you are referring to but I am unaware of any commercially available clip of that style for a one inch light (MD2, SF 6P, etc.). The main disadvantage of a clip that extends past the end of the tail cap is that you lose tail-standing capability, which IMO is an important feature for an EDC light.

FWIW, while I do not like having the entire tail cap extending out of my pocket, I have found no objection to having just the end of it exposed. My former EDC - a Foursevens Quark - riding in my pocket;


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-4.jpg


My current EDC - a Malkoff MDC/VME - shown with the Quark;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/mdcvme-6.jpg

[GRV]

Yea, I'd have to see if it works. The issue is not so much discreetness but fit. On either side of the pocket, depending on how much sticks out it will interfere with either my mag pouch clip or my clinch pick loop when I sit, or even just my belt. I went through this with the 1L-1AA, and it was one of the main reasons I switched to the 2L-X; I was shocked the bigger light carried better, but the clip makes a big difference. Discreetness is a nice bonus.

The 2L-X clip pulls this off without compromising the tail stand. Granted its tail stand isn't great because of the clicky placement, but the point is that you can have both worlds.

I used to carry a stylus pro, which is setup like your quark. IIRC I pulled it off mostly without problem, but it was also facilitated by how narrow it is.

ETA: I just tried playing around with the 1L-1AA again and on one side of my pocket it's not as bad as I remember...Though still clearly not as nice as the 2L-X.

21379

[Dagga Boy]

I didn't understand the M61HOT option; the output on that kinda changes the game. Still not sure I could pull off the form factor though....Are there any good clips compatible with the MD2 that will ride the tail flush to the pocket hem?

JAD, do you know anything re the Orbtronic 18650s? https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery

Those are the batteries I am using in mine after consulting with people smarter than me on 18650's.

[NH Shooter]

So here is my M61T MD2 light;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-1.jpg


Like the M61HOT (High Output Throw), the M61T (Throw) head (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-mdx22-3-m61t-throw-head) use a TIR (Total Internal Reflection) lens instead of a reflector. Rated at 350 lumens/12,000 lux vs. 500 lumens/18,000 lux of the high output version, the M61T has a wide voltage operating range of 3.4 to 9 volts, meaning a wide variety of cells can be used to power it, including a pair of standard CR123 lithium batteries. I'm powering mine with a KeepPower IMR 18650 (http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Keeppower%20IMR18650%203200mAh%20%28Black%29%20201 4%20UK.html) flat top cell, which provides over two hours of run time. I have come to prefer "unprotected" IMR (lithium manganese) batteries as they are safer than ICR chemistry Li-ion cells that require a built-in safety circuit board, which are fragile and can be damaged. Additionally, the "flat top" configuration (vs. button top) works better with the contact spring used in Malkoff heads.

I purchased this M61T MD2 as a complete light (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61t-md2) and have made several modifications;

1. I have added an Oveready Spring Stainless Steel Pocket Clip (http://www.oveready.com/clip-store/1-0-light-spring-stainless-steel-clip/prod_445.html) which allows the light to ride deeper in my front pocket than a clip that attaches between the body and tail cap. This clip required drilling and tapping the tail cap for two 4-40 screws. I am pleased with how well this clip fits the light and the secure-yet-comfortable front pocket carry it provides.

2. Since I have become so accustomed to using my DIY finger lanyard, I installed a Solarforce lanyard ring (http://www.customlites.com/product.sc?productId=93) to attach the lanyard. I use a finger lanyard on all of my carry lights.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-3.jpg


3. I installed a Danco #11 o-ring on top of the battery under the head. This serves as a bumper to protect the top of the battery if the light is dropped. I damaged a button top battery conducting a drop test of this light on concrete covered with a piece of thin commercial carpet to protect the finish of the light. The light held up fine, the battery not so much banging against the inside of the fully potted Malkoff head...

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-2.jpg


Malkoff makes an excellent high-low switch (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/products/high-low-bezel-switch-for-md2) that operates with a slight turn of the bezel, which my Hound Dog 18650 is equipped with. However, since this light is intended for self defense and defensive use with a pistol, I prefer single mode operation (high power only) for this purpose.

As with my other Malkoff lights, I am very pleased with M61T MD2.

[JAD]

. I have come to prefer "unprotected" IMR (lithium manganese) batteries as they are safer than ICR chemistry Li-ion cells that require a built-in safety circuit board, which are fragile and can be damaged.

That’s interesting. I was unaware of any secondary lithium chemistry that would be safe without a BMS. We don’t use that chemistry in the high voltage world. I’ll get into the books tomorrow and see if I can sort it out.

[NH Shooter]

That’s interesting. I was unaware of any secondary lithium chemistry that would be safe without a BMS. We don’t use that chemistry in the high voltage world. I’ll get into the books tomorrow and see if I can sort it out.

JAD, a few links I've found informative;

https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/18880255-battery-chemistry-finally-explained

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion

As you already stated, the use of any Li-ion cell (regardless of chemistry) requires some study and adherence to safe practices. Unlike an alkaline battery, any Li-ion battery can be dangerous if mishandled or if it becomes damaged from dropping the light onto a hard surface such as pavement. Here are some photos of what happened when I dropped my Malkoff M61T MD2 a few times bezel-first onto a concrete floor (covered with thin carpet to protect the light's finish) -

The fully potted head was completely undamaged, both inside and outside;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-5.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-4.jpg


Since the Malkoff body allows the battery to be removed from the bezel end (good), the battery slams into the rear of the head on impact (bad). After just a few accidental drops to the pavement in normal use, an 18650 battery can become damaged (very bad). Here is what the "button top" battery looked like after the drop test;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-6.jpg


At least in a Malkoff body my advice is to (1) use a "flat top" battery that does not have the protruding button as the positive contact and (2) install an o-ring on top of the battery to serve as a bumper. Here is the flat top version of the same battery with a Danco #11 o-ring (Ace Hardware) installed. I dropped this set up twice with no damage occurring;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/md2-2.jpg


Lots of light in small packages, long run times and the economy of recharging are the advantages of rechargeable Li-ion batteries. At the same time, one must become familiar with the safe handling and use of these batteries, including safe charging and storage practices, and preventing damage to the cell from drops that are to be expected in normal use.

[JAD]

JAD, a few links I've found informative;

https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/18880255-battery-chemistry-finally-explained

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion

As you already stated, the use of any Li-ion cell (regardless of chemistry) requires some study and adherence to safe practices.

Battery University is not bad; it’s very incomplete but I’ve never found anything incorrect on it. I can’t say that about BB, but I will say the assertion (which I found on BB) that LMO “doesn’t require a protection circuit” is very interesting. I don’t understand the context of single cell applications well enough to challenge it yet, but it’s interesting.

[NH Shooter]

Out in the woods with the Malkoff Hound Dog 18650 light sabre.


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/malkoff-2.jpg