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Unobtanium
10-16-2017, 02:02 AM
What is the furthest distance that a stray 00 pellet is likely to cause lethal damage? I live in a rural area, but this is still something I ponder.

Tabasco
10-16-2017, 09:48 AM
I watched a video with some guy shooting standard 00 buckshot at various ranges, back to 200 yards. Beyond 200 yards, pellets did not penetrate the plywood, if they managed to hit it at all, so he guesstimated that 200 yards was the lethal limit. Not scientific, but something...

Glenn E. Meyer
10-16-2017, 09:58 AM
Just as an incident, one should listen to the Mas Ayoob podcast interview with Greg Ferris about his gun fight in San Antonio. Mr. Ferris used a shotgun in part and pointed out that he missed some shots with it. Also, some of the pellets went out of the shop and into a house across the street. He said he felt lucky that no bystanders were hit. Obviously, this is not in a rural area but just FYI.

Folks usually claim they won't miss with a shotgun and they don't worry about stray pellets. Ah, the Internet.

txdpd
10-16-2017, 10:16 AM
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html

I don't know what the lethal energy is for a pellet. Standard 00 buckshot is .33", and flitecontrol and versatite 00 buckshot is .32".

I think that it's safe to assume that if a pellet can kill or cause serious injury at any distance it can travel.

Edited: my math was way off.

GJM
10-16-2017, 10:30 AM
It’s been a number of years, but in a Bill Jeans Morigan consulting class, he gave an example of a police officer killed at 50 yards or more by a single stray buck shot pellet.

psalms144.1
10-16-2017, 10:35 AM
The last victim killed at the WNY was killed by a single pellet as well. I don't remember the distance, but it was CONSIDERABLY further than I would have ever taken a shot with a 12-ga short barrel loaded with buckshot. Of course, I'm not a psychotic mass murderer...

DocGKR
10-16-2017, 11:01 AM
I am aware of an officer killed by a stray pellet at about 60 yds distance.

GJM
10-16-2017, 11:07 AM
I am aware of an officer killed by a stray pellet at about 60 yds distance.

I wonder if this was the same incident as I was referring to? As I recall, it was LE in CA, and one officer fired at a bad guy, and the stray pellet struck another officer well behind the intended target.

41magfan
10-16-2017, 11:10 AM
I previously mentioned, I would think an impact within a couple of hundred yards could still produce a lethal wound. I've seen deer killed by a single large pellet at 100 yards and I know of at least one hunting accident fatality that involved a single 00-pellet at over 100 yards.

Unobtanium
10-16-2017, 07:44 PM
So far the longest distance fatality I have found is this:

http://www.thecountyrecord.net/archives/2057-Blountstown-man-is-killed-in-tragic-hunting-accident.html

txdpd
10-16-2017, 07:53 PM
The terminal distance of a .33 pellet at 1300fps looks to be around 850 yards.

From a height of 48", muzzle parallel to the ground, a .32" pellet at 1000FPS will travel about 130 yards.

Out of the common defensive platforms, buckshot has the least terminal range, but it's still fairly significant.

willie
10-16-2017, 10:55 PM
I know of deer killed at 60 yards with 00 buck. The smaller 0 buckshot or lower velocity reduced recoil 00 loads might be safer for urban use than the regular velocity offerings.

DamonL
10-17-2017, 12:14 AM
Now I am am wondering if it might be better to just use slugs.

Erick Gelhaus
10-17-2017, 02:48 AM
It’s been a number of years, but in a Bill Jeans Morigan consulting class, he gave an example of a police officer killed at 50 yards or more by a single stray buck shot pellet.

I am aware of an officer killed by a stray pellet at about 60 yds distance.

At Gunsite and through Morrigan Consulting, Bill regularly used the example of the San Jose PD officer who was killed under those circumstances, I believe that GJM and DocGKR are both speaking about the same event.


Now I am am wondering if it might be better to just use slugs.
It depends. In my current cop role, considering the spectrum of tools I have available, my shotgun is loaded with slugs; however, that is for a specific role. As a private citizen I would not hesitate to use both 00buck & slugs.

DocGKR
10-17-2017, 10:08 AM
Slugs are great against vehicles, large animals, point targets, longer range engagements (typically beyond 25 yds w/a shotgun), and when barriers must be defeated. #1 buckshot excels against close range encounters (generally under 25 yds w/a shotgun)--particularly indoors.

Wendell
10-17-2017, 11:19 AM
Brobee223 has done some testing with various shotgun loads.

Here is one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S546W_L0tFo

Here is another:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41wBr7-QQlI

scott
10-17-2017, 05:29 PM
ETA: Disregard this; sometimes I'm bad at math

txdpd
10-17-2017, 06:15 PM
Just looking at the ballistics, a 00 pellet going 1300 from the muzzle will still be doing 600-something at 2000 yards (assuming .47 BC, 60 grains) if you could somehow get it that far. So this is kind of the obvious answer, but if a stay pellet hits someone, at any distance, it might kill them.

00 .33" round ball will have a BC around .065-.070. Not much better than a brick. Pretty lousy on paper, pretty good in the real world.

scott
10-17-2017, 06:20 PM
00 .33" round ball will have a BC around .065-.070. Not much better than a brick. Pretty lousy on paper, pretty good in the real world.

I dropped a zero between estimating the BC and putting it into the calculator because I'm special. Thanks for catching that.

Lester Polfus
10-17-2017, 07:09 PM
This is the sort of shit that can drive you crazy.

With buckshot out of a shotgun, I have pellets that while still capable of being lethal out to a couple hundred yards, are less likely to be. But there are 8 or 9 of them.

With a slug, I have a single projectile that is more likely to be lethal out to a longer distance.

With a rifle I have a single projectile that is more likely to be lethal to a longer distance yet.

Sometimes you just have to weigh the pros and cons, pick one, and rock on.

Unobtanium
10-18-2017, 06:02 AM
This is the sort of shit that can drive you crazy.

With buckshot out of a shotgun, I have pellets that while still capable of being lethal out to a couple hundred yards, are less likely to be. But there are 8 or 9 of them.

With a slug, I have a single projectile that is more likely to be lethal out to a longer distance.

With a rifle I have a single projectile that is more likely to be lethal to a longer distance yet.

Sometimes you just have to weigh the pros and cons, pick one, and rock on.

00B makes far more sense in my AO, as there are no houses or people likely to be about for 2-300 yards of where I am, so even if I step out on the porch and blast away maliciously at my neighbor's, a broken window or dented car is likely the worst I could inflict even TRYING. In a more urban location, not so much.