Best pistols for AIWB carry?

[1986s4]

Since discovering AIWB carry I have put some thought into what is best/ safe for this style of carry. For me, I do not see myself going back to another type of carry as I like AWIB, comfortable and very concealable. I have read with great interest some of the comments on this, and other respectable sites, on the benefits and downsides of specific pistol designs for AWIB carry. I know there is a lot of opinion involved, but are there some pistols one should not carry AWIB? Some are not comfortable with Glocks and the newer Walther PPQ, some are not comfortable with the 1911 cocked and locked [sear breakage I think]. I use a DA/SA P-30, I like the P-30 for this type of carry, just not the downsides of the HK pistol, difficult DA trigger, lack of a wide selection of parts, e.g., sights. The P-30 is a fine weapon and does the job for which I intended, just wondering about options.
Best,
1986s4

[JHC]

If I were absolutely not comfortable AIWB with my Glocks (however I am), and the HKs were disqualified for whatever reason; Third gen S&W semiautos and the Beretta 92 compact would be on my list.

[JM Campbell]

P30LS with LEM if you need a safety and a non DA/SA.

Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket

[TGS]

I use a DA/SA P-30, I like the P-30 for this type of carry, just not the downsides of the HK pistol, difficult DA trigger

1986s4,

Have you had any DA specific training? In my short 5 years in formal handgun training experience, I've never heard anyone diss DA after they learned how to shoot it properly.

_________
Off topic: By any chance, would you happen to be a Group B fan, or are you just a Audi S4 fan? The Group B S4 Quattro was a monster. What I would give to be able to drive one of those.........(on a skidpad of course, otherwise I'm sure I'd fly into the trees like many professional drivers did)

[GJM]

The underlying premise of this thread seems to be that safety with appendix carry is largely a hardware issue. When a question of ND's of Glocks versus other pistols came up some months back in a discussion elsewhere, I got pointed to the Front Site web site, only because they have listed each ND there, that resulted in injury. When I went thru each incident, and tallied them up, I was amazed that ND's with Glock pistols were low compared to ND's with other pistols, many with thumb safeties, and probably especially low given the high percentage of Glock shooters. Not surprisingly, the ND's happened drawing or re-holstering. This makes me wonder if the potential for ND's with appendix carry is more a software issue than a hardware issue, and whether the presence of a thumb safety or hammer may thus provide a false sense of safety for those carrying appendix?

[JV_]

and whether the presence of a thumb safety or hammer may thus provide a false sense of safety for those carrying appendix? Also consider what (likely) comes with that thumb safety: A very short and relatively light trigger pull.

As a side note, I've been in more than a few classes where a 1911 shooter holstered gun with a disengaged thumb safety.



This makes me wonder if the potential for ND's with appendix carry is more a software issue than a hardware issueKeep in mind it's not necessarily an A or B answer.

[Kyle Reese]

There's nothing "wrong" with carrying a Glock / M&P AIWB. It is absolutely critical that the shooter knows exactly what he/she is doing, and has a quality holster when selecting this method of carry.

[EMC]

DA/SA may be safer for AIWB carry assuming you don't forget to decock prior to holstering. If decock is left out of the process and you don't ride the hammer with your thumb, you could be in even greater peril than with a DAO.

[nar472]

I didnt think about useing a 1911 With a good FPS like a series 80 maybe.

[GJM]

Keep in mind it's not necessarily an A or B answer.

Good point. I don't consider it either A or B, but I wonder what per cent is a hardware issue and what per cent is a software issue?

[TGS]

Alternately, you could have someone like Bruce Gray work on your P30 trigger. His work has an excellent reputation.

If the OP considers this, also consider this:

I recently got my DA/SA P2000 back from GGI. The SA feels like a PPQ with a slightly cleaner and lighter break, with very similar reset. The DA isn't any different than before. The 12lbs mainspring(stock -2lbs) doesn't make any noticeable difference in my performance so far, either.

If the trouble is with the DA shot then no hardware improvement will fix it, IMO. You'll probably have trouble with any DA pistol. Spending some time with someone who knows how to shoot DA will help. If you legit can't find anyone, formal or informally and can't get past the DA with concerted effort on your own, then switching platforms to something like an HK LEM, SIG DAK, M&P with a thumb safety, Walther P99 with a striker indicator (which reflects trigger movement and can be thumbed), or a Glock with a gadget (if available) would probably be your best bet. That shouldn't be necessary though.....

DA is no where near as hard to learn as people make it. It's simply a matter of being shown the technique, and being honest enough to tell yourself if you're doing it wrong. Addition and subtraction was pretty hard to learn at first, too. If you can drive a stick, you can shoot DA/SA. If you have the cognition to go grocery shopping on your own, you can shoot DA/SA. If you have enough physical aptitude to play with Chinese finger traps, then you can shoot DA/SA. If you haven't learned to shoot it well by now, that means your doing something wrong and need to stop practicing bad habits.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
There's nothing wrong with carrying a stock Glock or safety-less M&P AIWB, but there's certainly a higher amount of risk doing so. If you've got no problem carrying those AIWB, then a cocked and unlocked HK P-series shouldn't be wrong either since I have yet to find a significant difference in trigger travel or weight.

As to whether carrying safely with AIWB is a hardware vs software issue, I would wholeheartedly say it's a software issue first. There's no arguing that certain hardware options involve less risk, though.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
As to 1911's, I can't imagine carrying those AIWB simply for the huge beavertails. How do you bend over without getting impaled on your uber-cool-guy-flashy-look-at-me-my-shit's-custom-too-good-for-GI spec extended beavertail? :eek:

[YVK]

The SA feels like a PPQ with a slightly cleaner and lighter break, with very similar reset. The DA isn't any different than before. The 12lbs mainspring(stock -2lbs) doesn't make any noticeable difference in my performance so far, either....

As to 1911's, I can't imagine carrying those AIWB simply for the huge beavertails. How do you bend over without getting impaled on your uber-cool-guy-flashy-look-at-me-my-shit's-custom-too-good-for-GI spec extended beavertail? :eek:

So, GGI job with 12 lbs mainspring didn't do anything to reduce a DA trigger pull weight? Just curious.

When I carry 1911, I carry AIWB. I've not lost any sleep over a spontaneous auto-fire concern, although I presume series-80 firing pin safety could be an additional insurance here. The beavertail hasn't been the problem, but overall length of a 5 inch 1911 is noticeable for me.

As far as safety of AIWB carry, I think HK P7M8 is the safest option here, between 11 lbs manual safety of a squeezer and protruding striker that can be controlled with a thumb. The balance and size of the gun make a it PITA for an AIWB carry though.

[TGS]

So, GGI job with 12 lbs mainspring didn't do anything to reduce a DA trigger pull weight? Just curious.

When I carry 1911, I carry AIWB. I've not lost any sleep over a spontaneous auto-fire concern, although I presume series-80 firing pin safety could be an additional insurance here. The beavertail hasn't been the problem, but overall length of a 5 inch 1911 is noticeable for me.

As far as safety of AIWB carry, I think HK P7M8 is the safest option here, between 11 lbs manual safety of a squeezer and protruding striker that can be controlled with a thumb. The balance and size of the gun make a it PITA for an AIWB carry though.

Right, DA doesn't feel any different. Maybe it's measurable with a scale, but its not measurable through performance nor perception. It's a little smoother with the heavy brake caliper grease on nickel-teflon parts. All the improvement was in the SA (fine by me, I never thought the DA needed much improvement), and I'm still trying to quantify it. So far it seems like I'm not any more accurate in slow drills like Dot Torture, though I seem to be getting more reliable hits in SA at speed...that's hard for me to measure since I shoot at an indoor range so timers are iffy. The reset is awesome, the SA break is very clean and very light, but overall I'm not thinking my $325 was spent well. Keep in mind my gun already had over 13000 rounds through it......I think I was expecting too much. I was expecting to get the gun back and it feel like a Swiss watch. It basically feels like a PPQ.

[YVK]

Damn. I was thinking of getting a V3, but hoped that he could bring a DA pull a bit down. Comparing it with a same length but lighter LEM pull, my first shot is a bit faster with LEM. I am fine with stock SA.
Sorry for a small hijack, all.

[Tamara]

I didnt think about useing a 1911 With a good FPS like a series 80 maybe.

That would be ideal.

Still, though, I just have a case of the mental heebie-jeebies about carrying a pistol that is all coiled up and ready to bust a primer pointing at my vitals. I admit it's not rational. The S&W 432 in my coat pocket sometimes points at my femoral as I sit down in the car, before I have a chance to rearrange my coat pocket, but few pistols are more inert than a DAO Smith resolver; you could use one of those as the puck in a game of ice soccer without worrying about it busting a cap.

We're back to acceptable risk envelopes. :o

[DocGKR]

As noted previously, I started out using AIWB carry nearly 25 years ago when faced with the need to carry a service pistol (at various times in my military career a 1911, M9, or Sig P226/228) while wearing the Navy Service Dress Blue uniform--since the jacket is a double breasted type that could not be left unbuttoned, AIWB was the only option to allow easy access to the pistol. It also worked well with BDU/DCU uniforms when not wanting to appear armed, for example on MEDCAP's.

http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/1127431110871.jpg

Lou Alessi made us some holsters (APX-IWB), as shown in the photo, with a slight reverse FBI cant that worked very well for this option--the only potential downside of the Alessi holster was the plastic "Talon" clip that secured it to the belt--although to be honest none ever broke or caused any problems for us.

http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/1127431121854.jpg

Likewise I have used AIWB for over a decade in the LE and civilian world, to carry 1911's, G19's, and most recently M&P45's w/ambi-safeties. During a recent Independence Day celebration, a couple of friends from the PD were teasing me about my uncharacteristically running around unarmed in just a hippie-cam T-shirt and shorts, as shown in the photo below--not realizing I was carrying a 5" 1911 AIWB in an Alessi holster, along with a couple of extra mags...

http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/1127431134258.JPG

My current holsters are Fricke Seraphim for RMR equipped Glocks and M&P's, as shown in the photo below.

http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/112752140371.jpg

As discussed, I've been carrying AIWB for a LONG time--including bicycling to work everyday, horseback riding with my daughters (photo below shows me on horseback with an M&P45 AIWB in a Fricke Seraphim),
http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/112752148154.jpg
and even when rock climbing easier sport routes (climbing a quick 5.9 indoor route with a G19 in a Fricke Serapim...and a cast on my fx R wrist)
http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/112752157458.jpg.

No issues.

With the proper holster and attire selection, pistols the size of a G17 are more than acceptable for daily carry AIWB . Depending how your holster rides, the location of the holster on the belt, and your clothing, the shorter grip on the G19 can be an advantage over the G17 for some folks with AIWB. When carrying AIWB, a LONGER barrel helps keep the pistol tucked in and secure. However, if you go with too long a barrel for your physique, then important anatomic structures can get poked. It turns out that AIWB can be less comfortable doing certain activities like bicycling and equestrian events when using a longer barrel like a 5" 1911... Conversely, at 6 feet, 200 lbs, I find the G26 has far too short a barrel for stable carry and too short a grip for effective shooting. The G19 is the smallest I want to go with for daily carry. These days I am primarily using a G17 with the grip cut to take G19 mags and M&P9's.

Note that the pistols I have most frequently carried AIWB--1911's, G19's, and M&P's are either striker fired or cocked and locked. There are NO problems if appropriate care and prudence is exercised while slowly re-holstering along with simultaneously tilting the holster AWAY from all critical anatomic areas that could be perforated or damage if the pistol inadvertently discharges. Much like other endeavors requiring error free performance such as flying, deep scuba diving, rock climbing, and performing surgery--DON'T MAKE ANY MISTAKES when doing this!

[Tamara]

DocGKR,

While I don't think you hung the moon, I wouldn't be shocked if I found out that you told them where to put the nail. I'm totally a squee-ing fangirl...

...however, I'm not ashamed to admit that I just won't carry a gun that is all charged up with the energy to bust a cap pointing at my vitals, no matter how many mechanical safeties it has. I freely admit that this is not necessarily a rational viewpoint, but there you go. :o

[Tamara]

you would it would be slowed enough to not go bang. Especially if it was holstered in something with a sweat shield made to hold the safety on safe like the alessi stuff in the post above.

Next week on "You Bet Your Life"!

[WDW]

I do not carry AIWB because for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to make it comfortable while sitting. But, you should def stick with a gun with either a manual safety such as an M&P or with a DA/SA configuration such as can be found in a host of quality guns. I have seen far too many guys who are experienced shooters have ND's while reholstering/drawing to trust AIWB without some sort of failsafe/feedback device like a safety, gadget, or DA/SA config.

[GJM]

Here is the list of ND's at Front Sight I referred to in a previous post:

http://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp?Action=ShowSingle&ID=5

With the exception of one instance with a gold Cup, every other instance appears to be a software issue, and surprisingly, Sig pistols were frequently involved. Anyone care to explain exactly what safety features are desirable on a pistol carried AIWB, and what problem(s) those safety features will prevent?

[nar472]

If I had to pick it would be either an hk (with lem) or glock with gadget ect.. something that had positve feedback whether or not the trigger was being pulled and the ability on my part to easily overpower it ie. my thumb on top the hammer or gadget. As Doc put it though as long as you use very prudent methods for reholstering it can be very safe, I just prefer to have a little extra safety.:cool:

eta: if I was to reccomend a 1911 I would definately prefer a series 80 . Also as I believe Doc has recomended before I would want the 1911 set up properly there is very little inbetween on 1911's if you can't afford to spend a fair amount of money on a good one, don't waste your time.

[xdtact]

Here is the list of ND's at Front Sight I referred to in a previous post:

http://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp?Action=ShowSingle&ID=5

With the exception of one instance with a gold Cup, every other instance appears to be a software issue, and surprisingly, Sig pistols were frequently involved. Anyone care to explain exactly what safety features are desirable on a pistol carried AIWB, and what problem(s) those safety features will prevent?

OT, I know, but many of their NDs occurred the afternoon of the fourth day on a four day class. They should take that afternoon off...

[JAD]

I do not have the cool points to break rule two and feel like I'm doing it right, but just supposing y'all had tempted me into trying it, I did find that the beavertail and sweatshield stabbed me like a Rikers con. My PM9 fits much better in an Alessi Talon.

[TGS]

I do not have the cool points to break rule two and feel like I'm doing it right

I bet you're breaking rule two with any method. OWB on the hip, IWB behind the hip, drop rig on the thigh.........I bet the gun is always sweeping your body or pointing at you. If you have an open muzzle holster, put a dowel in your barrel and try to holster, or drop a chamber laser in it if you have one. Unless, of course, you're shaped like a perfectly flat concrete block with square angles.

[GJM]

Appendix allows you to carry a full size pistol comfortably and concealed, subject to finding a holster that works with your body type. HK45, Glock 20/21, and obviously smaller pistols, are no problem for me.

[1986s4]

1986s4,

Have you had any DA specific training? In my short 5 years in formal handgun training experience, I've never heard anyone diss DA after they learned how to shoot it properly.

_________
Off topic: By any chance, would you happen to be a Group B fan, or are you just a Audi S4 fan? The Group B S4 Quattro was a monster. What I would give to be able to drive one of those.........(on a skidpad of course, otherwise I'm sure I'd fly into the trees like many professional drivers did)

My first handgun was a S&W revolver, M18 .22LR. Many happy hours on a California mountainside with that gun... I did not not mean to leave the impression that I was unsatisfied w/ the P-30. It does what I need it to, quite well. Just exploring options. AWIB as good as it is, does seem to carry special risks that I will either be comfortable with or not.
Thanks to all who took the time to answer my question.
1986s4

[GJM]

I bet you're breaking rule two with any method. OWB on the hip, IWB behind the hip, drop rig on the thigh.........I bet the gun is always sweeping your body or pointing at you. If you have an open muzzle holster, put a dowel in your barrel and try to holster, or drop a chamber laser in it if you have one. Unless, of course, you're shaped like a perfectly flat concrete block with square angles.

Yeah, but the stuff you cover is a lot more significant with appendix.

Here is my thinking on appendix carry. I absolutely prefer it, because it is concealable, comfortable, has reduced my back pain, and eliminated the need to transition to a shoulder holster in aircraft. While I think folks are willing to accept the risk of appendix, if you needed to draw the pistol for real, most are not thrilled about the thought of shooting themselves in a training accident. I also believe a group training environment or match may create some distractions that could contribute to an appendix mistake. My preference is to use a OWB holster at the three o'clock position for most training, practice appendix mostly dry firing, and do limited appendix live fire practice in controlled circumstances.

[TGS]

Yeah, but the stuff you cover is a lot more significant with appendix.

Here is my thinking on appendix carry. I absolutely prefer it, because it is concealable, comfortable, has reduced my back pain, and eliminated the need to transition to a shoulder holster in aircraft. While I think folks are willing to accept the risk of appendix, if you needed to draw the pistol for real, most are not thrilled about the thought of shooting themselves in a training accident. I also believe a group training environment or match may create some distractions that could contribute to an appendix mistake. My preference is to use a OWB holster at the three o'clock position for most training, practice appendix mostly dry firing, and do limited appendix live fire practice in controlled circumstances.

I never contested or downplayed that AIWB covers more important stuff....the point still stands that if breaking rule 2 itself is a concern then it's moot since using most holsters will break that rule.

That's cool to see you've found AIWB usable for your flying. Curious......was the back pain with a shoulder holster or belt holster?

[JHC]

Yeah, but the stuff you cover is a lot more significant with appendix.

My preference is to use a OWB holster at the three o'clock position for most training, practice appendix mostly dry firing, and do limited appendix live fire practice in controlled circumstances.

Across several decades, I've found that formula to work well and the few times I needed being armed, I never forgot where that heater was.

[GJM]

I never contested or downplayed that AIWB covers more important stuff....the point still stands that if breaking rule 2 itself is a concern then it's moot since using most holsters will break that rule.

That's cool to see you've found AIWB usable for your flying. Curious......was the back pain with a shoulder holster or belt holster?

Back pain was a result of a pistol worn on, or behind the hip, digging into me in form fitting seats. It had gotten to the point that I removed the belt holster and transferred to a shoulder holster. Appendix is a lot less monkey motion since it works in most everything I fly or would consider flying.

[JV_]

I'm splitting the 2011/1911 specific AIWB posts to a new thread:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2828-Using-a-1911-2011-with-AIWB

[HammerStriker]

Here is the list of ND's at Front Sight I referred to in a previous post:

http://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp?Action=ShowSingle&ID=5

With the exception of one instance with a gold Cup, every other instance appears to be a software issue, and surprisingly, Sig pistols were frequently involved. Anyone care to explain exactly what safety features are desirable on a pistol carried AIWB, and what problem(s) those safety features will prevent?

Actually of the 21 NDs: Only 3 were SA/DA Sigs, 11 were Striker Fired (Glock, XD, M&P without safety), and 7 were 1911s. In all 3 cases involving the Sigs, the shooter failed to de-cock the hammer before holstering. In all 7 of the incidences involving 1911's, the shooter failed to activate the manual thumb safety.

[Bucky]

Still, though, I just have a case of the mental heebie-jeebies about carrying a pistol that is all coiled up and ready to bust a primer pointing at my vitals. I admit it's not rational.


I’d argue it’s very rational.



...however, I'm not ashamed to admit that I just won't carry a gun that is all charged up with the energy to bust a cap pointing at my vitals, no matter how many mechanical safeties it has. I freely admit that this is not necessarily a rational viewpoint, but there you go. :o

Admittedly, I’ve carried an EDC X9 and G19 in this manner, I do get this itching in the back of my mind that I’m relying on mechanical features to keep the gun from firing. I feel most comfortable with my 92 Compact. Even if parts on that gun break, it’s not “coiled up” and ready to fire.

BTW, I really like your terminology on this manner.

At the risk of sounding irrational as well, I was at at Grim Reaper concert a few years back. It was a small little joint, but they were amped up for playing an arena. I was carrying a P938 in a pocket holster, cocked and locked. I actually started to wonder if the obnoxious excessive volume could trigger something bad.

[GhastlyTT]

How long till they notice? :)

[Cory]

How long till they notice? :)

It'll take a bit.

DocGKR would you be able to repost the images from your previous posts that show how you conceales a 1911 AIWB? I'm kind of curious how well it worked for you, but since the photobucket debacle they seem to have disappeared.

-Cory

[MGW]

Also consider what (likely) comes with that thumb safety: A very short and relatively light trigger pull.

As a side note, I've been in more than a few classes where a 1911 shooter holstered gun with a disengaged thumb safety.


Keep in mind it's not necessarily an A or B answer.

And this is why I won’t appendix carry a 1911. I’ve never holstered a live 1911 with the safety off but I’ve done it in dry fire more than once. It’s way to easy for me to forget without stress I don’t want to test it under real stress.

[Duces Tecum]

Deleted. Subject addressed by an earlier poster.

[Yung]

Been thinking about a Sig X-Carry. I'm wondering if the beavertail is a printing concern.

[StraitR]

I think we've had this discussion before. Did we come up with a discernible safety difference when holstering a 4lbs SA 1911 trigger off safe, a 5lbs striker trigger, and a 4-5lbs SA pull on a DA/SA not de-cocked?

[theJanitor]

1 AIWB a 1911. I don't thumb the hammer while holstering, I ride the safety UP all the way into the holster. Holding the safety in the ON position holds the sear, which is engaging the hammer. and with a quality rig like the SME, you CAN'T holster the pistol with the safety OFF.

otherwise, I would think a DA/SA pistol, would be "safer", but there's still the de-cocking action that must be completed prior to holstering

[ubervic]

Have carried LEM, SFA (MP9FS), TDA, and now back to SFA (Glock with The Gadget). Having experienced each platform for no less than a year at a time and through many AIWB drawing & holstering repetitions, I’ve concluded that a Gadget-equipped Glock is the best AIWB carry for me. Entirely simple, with no external safeties or decockers to manipulate, and thumbing the Gadget while holstering became ingrained for me virtually immediately. While there are benefits and advantages to other platforms for firing purposes, this setup suits me perfectly for carry itself.

[StraitR]

It seems entirely possible, under stress or distress, that one could fail to thumb the gadget when holstering. It's still an additional step in a manual of arms prior to holstering, not unlike a manual safety, de-cocker, or thumbing a hammer.

To me, a 1911 manual safety is simple, just like an AR safety, in that it's disengaged when sights are on target, and engaged when sights are taken off target. Gun goes out (or up for AR) safety goes off in the process. Gun goes in (down on AR), safety goes on. When the safety is on, my thumb is below and applying light upwards pressure. When off, thumb lies on safety, also applying light pressure. As such, I can always know the status of my weapon by feel. Same for both 1911 and AR.

I also think the gadget is simple, and took to it pretty naturally when holstering. I have very little experience using a de-cocker, so to me it's not as simple when I pick one up. That's not a matter of hardware so much is it is a matter of software (my lack of experience with de-cockers).

In other words, I don't believe there is a "best pistol for AIWB carry", but rather different ways to do the same thing. We pick the one we are most comfortable with, based on our own perceptions of safety and ease of use. Train, train, train, to the point of automaticity, which I believe was the major takeaway the last time we discussed trigger systems and AIWB safety.

[blues]

It seems entirely possible, under stress or distress, that one could fail to thumb the gadget when holstering. It's still an additional step in a manual of arms prior to holstering, not unlike a manual safety, de-cocker, or thumbing a hammer.



I'll only add that by and large, one is not going to be holstering under stress...and shouldn't be unless there is some overwhelming need.

In my experience, thumbing the gadget is as easy (to remember and accomplish) as any safety I've ever deployed on an issued / carried firearm.

I agree with you that there is no best. However the Glocks remain the best choice for me.

[StraitR]

I'll only add that by and large, one is not going to be holstering under stress...and shouldn't be unless there is some overwhelming need.


I'm in full agreement Blues, but "you'll forget under stress" is the perennial argument against manual safeties and de-cockers. Having only 1911's and Glocks with Gadgets these days, I don't find one easier or harder than the other. Both require an additional step to "activate" the layer of safety above and beyond firearms without either.

[blues]

I'm in full agreement Blues, but "you'll forget under stress" is the perennial argument against manual safeties and de-cockers. Having only 1911's and Glocks with Gadgets these days, I don't find one easier or harder than the other. Both require an additional step to "activate" the layer of safety above and beyond firearms without either.

Agree...but even so, the "gadget" just makes a safe firearm safer. It isn't required to make it safe. But I'm only arguing minutiae, my friend. I totally get your point.

[HeavyDuty]

To be honest, I was never comfortable with the idea of AIWB with a Glock before the SCD. Now I’m giving it a try with my 43.

[StraitR]

Agree...but even so, the "gadget" just makes a safe firearm safer. It isn't required to make it safe. But I'm only arguing minutiae, my friend. I totally get your point.

Understood. I suppose I view SFA guns differently then, in that the variation between triggers (SFA vs 1911) as it pertains to safety when holstering is about 1/8" of travel and 1-2lbs of pull weight. Potentially less in models like the PPQ and VP9. Basically, I don't believe the difference in length of pull and weight would be perceivable when meeting an obstruction while holstering (purpose of the Gadget). I feel the same about SFA vs a DA/SA gun on SA, in the same context.

To me, a Gadget makes the Glock a safe firearm (when holstering). As a result, I like my Glocks + Gadgets a lot. I think safety is 100% between the ears. No manual safety, grip safety, trigger safety, gadget, de-cocker, length of pull, or pull weight will do for us what we can't do for ourselves.

Respectfully.

[MGW]

Off topic and of no value, but the necropost record now stands at 6 years, 8 months, 4 days, 16 hours, and 52 minutes.

It sure how this one came back up but I should really look at dates before I quote a post. I didn’t even notice how long ago this one started.

On another note this was probably a good thread to bring back from the dead. It’s never a bad thing to think about safety when it comes to firearms.

[10mmfanboy]

The Glock Gadget is truly a blessing! I think if it wasn't for the gadget I would have dropped the glock platform all together, even though I am highly invested in it. Coming from TDA pistols I automatically would thumb the hammer and noticed when I switched to SFA I was still thumbing the back plate, so there was really no learning curve to learn.


I started getting out my beretta's again this past year and doing a lot of shooting outback from aiwb. First thing I noticed was I would automatically bury my front sight because I was so used to the grip angle of a glock. Once I got my groove on again I definitely noticed I was getting my first shots off quicker with TDA because I was on the trigger earlier. I had slight better accuracy with them as well. Off hand shooting wasn't great though. A lot of sight disturbance one handed in double action, which decreased my accuracy.


My final verdict for this year is I am staying with a glock with gadget as best pistol for aiwb. Everywhere I go, my pistol goes with me. I spend most of my time outside taking care of the ranch getting dirty, sweaty, muddy you name it. Parts are easy to come by and it is very easy to detail strip. Lighter weight, more ammo capacity (generally). Even though I want to hate a glock it seems as if all roads lead to a glock for me.

[krav51]

How many of the incidents (at least those that occur during holstering) could have been prevented by just slowing down when reholstering and making it a more deliberate process? Is there ever a reason to holster quickly and not "look the gun into the holster"? After drawing back to a dead stop i've been trained to slowly holster while looking ,and engaging my Gadget of course:)

[Duelist]

How many of the incidents (at least those that occur during holstering) could have been prevented by just slowing down when reholstering and making it a more deliberate process? Is there ever a reason to holster quickly and not "look the gun into the holster"? After drawing back to a dead stop i've been trained to slowly holster while looking ,and engaging my Gadget of course:)

If you're a cop who's about to go hands on with a subject, yeah, there just might, maybe be a possible reason to no-look speed holster.

[TCFD273]

The underlying premise of this thread seems to be that safety with appendix carry is largely a hardware issue. When a question of ND's of Glocks versus other pistols came up some months back in a discussion elsewhere, I got pointed to the Front Site web site, only because they have listed each ND there, that resulted in injury. When I went thru each incident, and tallied them up, I was amazed that ND's with Glock pistols were low compared to ND's with other pistols, many with thumb safeties, and probably especially low given the high percentage of Glock shooters. Not surprisingly, the ND's happened drawing or re-holstering. This makes me wonder if the potential for ND's with appendix carry is more a software issue than a hardware issue, and whether the presence of a thumb safety or hammer may thus provide a false sense of safety for those carrying appendix?

My only ND...knock on wood...was with a CGW CZ P07 several years ago.

Total mental error....

If I could get all the money back I’ve spent trying to find a replacement for a G19 I’d have a few more custom 1911’s [emoji16]




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[StraitR]

If I could get all the money back I’ve spent trying to find a replacement for a G19 I’d have a few more custom 1911’s.

Whew, ain't that the truth.

[HammerStriker]

My only ND...knock on wood...was with a CGW CZ P07 several years ago.

Total mental error....

If I could get all the money back I’ve spent trying to find a replacement for a G19 I’d have a few more custom 1911’s [emoji16]




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Interested in how the ND happened, if you're open to sharing?

[TCFD273]

Interested in how the ND happened, if you're open to sharing?

Didn’t decock in between strings of fire and was running to a new shooting position, my finger must of came off index and touched the trigger while running. Gun was pointed down range, round went into the berm.




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[TCFD273]

Interested in how the ND happened, if you're open to sharing?

Also, I’ve seen a ND in DA. He was WAAAAYY to quick on the trigger and sent a round down range in the middle of the draw.




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[Bucky]

Also, I’ve seen a ND in DA. He was WAAAAYY to quick on the trigger and sent a round down range in the middle of the draw.


Well, if the intent was ultimately to shoot, it wasn’t negligent, but premature. Sounds to me like this was a premature discharge. ;)

[TCFD273]

Well, if the intent was ultimately to shoot, it wasn’t negligent, but premature. Sounds to me like this was a premature discharge. ;)

Well, I view an ND as anytime a round was sent down range when it was not intentional.


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[HammerStriker]

Well, I view an ND as anytime a round was sent down range when it was not intentional.


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me too