The PF ICE (gas engine) generator thread

[LittleLebowski]

***work in progress, corrections appreciated

I’ve been doing a lot of research on gennys. I currently have a traditional/“smoke and noise” Champion 3500w genny. Traditional/“smoke and noise” gennys run at full speed all of the time and can not adjust to power draw needs. I had problems with fuel starvation on this one, a brand new carburetor did not fix the problem. The EPA restrictions (for “air quality”) in conjunction with ethanol gas make this a very common problem with carbureted small engines. The solution is to drill out the main jet on the carb. Doing that made my previously deadlines and unusable Champion, a one pull to start on one year old ethanol gas generator. No shit. Now, this genny is rock solid reliable on the old carb. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28140-How-I-fixed-my-surging-Champion-generator&p=663873#post663873) This type of generator produces sometimes “unclean”or oscillating power, which is bad for high end electrical devices such as TVs, computers, etc.

Anyway, I want an inverter generator. These are not as noisy as “smoke and noise” gennys as they are designed to only run at the engine speed needed to produce the amount of power being drawn. You usually have two settings on these, “Eco”which is the aforementioned on demand engine speed setting, and of course, full throttle. These inverter gennys produce very “clean” or stable electricity, which is much better for your high end electrical devices. The inverter gennys are of course, more expensive than smoke and noise gennys. One nice thing about inverter gennys is most of them can be ran in conjunction with another to produce double the power via a parallel cable kit (example (http://chainsawjournal.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/WEN-56421-Parallel-Connection-Kit.jpg).

The no brainer, easy inverter genny purchase (if you have the money) is of course, the Honda EU2000I (https://www.amazon.com/Honda-EU2000I-Portable-Generator-Inverter/dp/B005ND19AE) which of course, can be ran with another using a parallel cable kit. Too much for my blood #PoorFag (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=PoorFag) . I’ve got my eye on this Harbor Freight 3500w (https://t.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html). For around $650-$700 with an available 2 year warranty combined with its excellent reputation (especially after Irma), I view it as the thinking man’s alternative to the Honda. An alternative would be two of the Harbor Freight 2000w inverter gennys (https://t.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html) with a parallel cable kit. Out the door, with warranties, you’d be at about $200 over the price of one Honda Eu2000i.

But wait, there’s more! The HF 2000w is apparently a clone of the excellent Yamaha 2000w inverter genny (https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF2000iSv2-Starting-Portable-Inverter/dp/B002RWK9N2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1508001226&sr=8-3&keywords=Yamaha+generator+inverter) and unlike the HF 3500w, there are many differently branded variants of the Chinese Yamaha clone such as this Lifan (https://www.amazon.com/Lifan-ESI-2000i-4-Stroke-Generator/dp/B008H2G3ZO/ref=sr_1_7?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508001598&sr=1-7&keywords=Lifan+generator+inverter), this Westinghouse (https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-WH2200iXLT-Portable-Inverter-Generator/dp/B00NHACROW/ref=sr_1_15?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508001737&sr=1-15&keywords=2000+generator+inverter) or this Duromax. (https://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP2000iS-Running-Watts-Starting/dp/B0108N8R8U/ref=sr_1_26?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508001737&sr=1-26&keywords=2000+generator+inverter). Nearly all of these can be used with a parallel cable kit.

Yamaha EF200is clone conglomeration post (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28087-The-PF-generator-thread&p=662822&viewfull=1#post662822)

PF Generator spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b43DcpnjDT6SvDrxoFlI_rT9mIsemsoM4YgA4LfRtgw/edit?usp=sharing)

[LittleLebowski]

HF 3500w versus Honda EU2000w sound comparison.


https://youtu.be/fIQt4krPAgA

[Welder]

Don't forget about the option of used, brand name gensets. I picked up an EU3000is a few years ago for $700 off CL. Heck of a machine for peanuts price tag. Obviously the std used-equip buying caveats apply, but a ton of stuff on the used market is near pristine.

[rayrevolver]

I have a red Kipor 2000w (Honda clone) that is pretty quiet. We used them for tire warmers on motorcycles. Four of us bought them and 3 failed after a year.

What about a power/signal conditioner post-genny? That way you can keep your current unit or upgrade to a 10kw unit for much cheaper than the Yamaha/Honda clones.

As an aside, can anyone speak to building a battery bank that you can keep charged, as opposed to just running a genny? And maybe that way you can run a cheaper/bigger unit without worrying about clean power.

Batteries are expensive, but maybe have enough for a few hours vice a few days, since you will be charging them anyways.

[LittleLebowski]

Don't forget about the option of used, brand name gensets. I picked up an EU3000is a few years ago for $700 off CL. Heck of a machine for peanuts price tag. Obviously the std used-equip buying caveats apply, but a ton of stuff on the used market is near pristine.

Yup, just contacted someone on Craigslist whom supposedly has a Honda EU6500 for $1000, but it is prolly a scam.

[theJanitor]

I've got two of the Honda 2000eui's with the parallel kit. At the time, it was cheaper to buy two of the 2000, vs 1 of the 4000, plus I had the added capability of having TWO generators. I could run them at different parts of the property, or loan one out to other family members. I live in the city, so all we really try and power are fridges and freezers. I never have to power stuff like a well, either. It's never unbearably hot here, nor does it ever get dangerously cold, so my generator needs are simple.

I normally do hurricane prep in the late summer, as AUG-DEC is when a storm would likely blow our way. I didn't do any prep in 2016 as I had some medical issues. A month ago, I remembered that I hadn't started the genny's up since summer of 2015. I just flipped the genny upside-down and dumped the two year old fuel, put in some new gas, and it fired up in a couple of pulls. I can't say enough good things about the honda units.

[Cookie Monster]

Done a bunch of research but have not pressed the trigger. A Honda of some variety is in the future. Need to power three freezers.

I still debate a whole house generator, it was be thug life to be able to run the well and the hot water heater. 3 grand versus 10 but a lot of advantages.

[LittleLebowski]

The shared design is pretty obvious to me.

Yamaha EF2000, $986 (https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF2000iSv2-Starting-Portable-Inverter/dp/B002RWK9N2)

Firman 2000w inverter, $405 (https://www.amazon.com/Firman-Generators-SPS2000I-SPS2000i-Inverter/dp/B00YD04J64/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1508299249&sr=8-13&keywords=2000+inverter+generator)

Harbor Freight 2000w inverter, $499 MSRP but usually $450 with coupon (https://t.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om%2F)

Quip-All 2200i 2200w inverter for $449 (https://www.amazon.com/Quip-All-2200I-Portable-Inverter-Generator/dp/B071G57RTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508300326&sr=8-1&keywords=quip+all+generator)

Wen 56200i 2000w inverter, $499 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-2000-Watt-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-56200i/205825829)

Powerbuilt S2000is inverter, $449 (https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-Portable-Inverter-Parallel-Generator/dp/B073WGX4M4/ref=pd_sbs_86_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B073WGX4M4&pd_rd_r=EWYAVRH8H9WYSQBCS6M6&pd_rd_w=okBJR&pd_rd_wg=pOLRu&psc=1&refRID=EWYAVRH8H9WYSQBCS6M6&dpID=51UL0Z-GXiL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail)

20942

[whomever]

We have had a Honda EU2000 for, I dunno, a decade plus. We had one of the ubiquitous Briggs&Stratton 5000W ones before that.

I have lots of Harbor freight stuff.

My 2 cents: it depends on why you're buying it. If you're buying it for the hunting cabin, or as a 'nice to have' backup, then I'd consider one of the HF ones. If you really, really want it to work, I'd get the Honda. You just don't want to buy parachutes from HF.

I've had HF stuff that was great, and stuff that failed immediately. What you buy this month may not be the same quality as what you buy from them next month.

For our usage, the Honda is great. When the power goes out in winter, I carry it from the closet to the driveway and run a couple of extension cords through the cat door. It will run the furnace blower (gas furnace) and fridge at the same time. It throttles down when neither is running. We don't run it 24 hours a day, just as needed to keep the house unfrozen. For that, it uses 1 to 2 quarts a day of gas. That means a 5 gallon can of gas lasts a long time. After use I mothball it carefully until next time; it has always started right up.

YMMV!

[Tensaw]

The Honda 2k is bulletproof and sips gas. I say bulletproof based on my buddy who runs several of them all the time in connection with his work. I don't think I have ever read or heard a bad word about those Hondas. The sipping gas thing gets to be important after a disaster when access to fuel may be limited, not to mention very pricey. I have a 5k Ingersoll-Rand with a Honda motor. It cranks and runs like a champ, but for power outage usage I don't always need all that wattage. I can run the 5k to keep the two refridgerators and freezer cooled off, but if all I want to do is run a couple of fans and a TV, or even just a Skil saw and radio, the 5k is using way more gas than I need to burn. So two 2k Hondas cabled together would be the hot ticket even if it does tear the wallet off your azz.

[GuanoLoco]

I recently sprung for the Honda E2000, also got a 6 gallon extended gas tank and a primable, quick-disconnect (low spash) hose kit. That plus a bunch of extension cords, one is a 100’ 10 guage plus several 100’ 14 guage that were on clearance for $8.

I let it run for an afternoon with 2 x 1000 watt dehydrators turning randomly on and off. Worked like a champ. Stupid easy to pull start and has been 100% on 1-pull starts.

Stockpiled some no-ethanol gas and treated it with a double dose of PRI-G. I think it’s enough to keep the essentials running - multiple fridges, chest freezers, coffee makers, etc. I haven’t tried hooking of up to the house and running a gaspack furnace on it yet.

Interesting idea. I don’t have a transfer switch but I guess you can just pull the manual cut-off in a pinch.

[Welder]

Just a reminder to not guess on size when it comes to gensets. I remember an electrician friend said he'd done a lot of work to burnt-up stuff that people were running with underpowered generators after the derecho came through here a few years back. Check your labels for peak amp draws and running amps, and manage your loads properly.

Another thing -- on the gasoline-powered gensets, rather than constantly store fuel with all sorts of stabilizers in it, it can be easier and cheaper to keep a couple of 5 gallon cans filled at all times, and empty them monthly into your vehicle just before you fill it with gas. Then fill your cans back up at the same time you top off your vehicle. Rotating your supply like this will ensure that your different small engines always have fresh gas in storage.

[schüler]

I have a red Kipor 2000w (Honda clone) that is pretty quiet. We used them for tire warmers on motorcycles. Four of us bought them and 3 failed after a year.

What about a power/signal conditioner post-genny? That way you can keep your current unit or upgrade to a 10kw unit for much cheaper than the Yamaha/Honda clones.

As an aside, can anyone speak to building a battery bank that you can keep charged, as opposed to just running a genny? And maybe that way you can run a cheaper/bigger unit without worrying about clean power.

Batteries are expensive, but maybe have enough for a few hours vice a few days, since you will be charging them anyways.

Everyone's intended use is different. Every single cheap inverter generator is an Athlon scope, TruGlo red dot, etc. Use accordingly.

Power conditioners are not efficient. Especially if they have high quality output. They still require current to compensate for voltage fluctuations, so they can put a similarly sized gen set in surge oscillation which affects fuel economy. The only true power conditioner is a "true online" or "double conversion" UPS. Not cheap but they are extra insurance against damaging a sensitive load plus offer limited battery backup - as long as the input voltage doesn't go catastrophically out of range.

Battery banks or "plants" are indeed expensive. Especially for long life, low maintenance types. And they only last that long when in optimum temperature. Heat kills battery life. The charging cycle is not efficient but doesn't require much to keep topped off. Inverters have come a long way but you still have to account for efficiency loss. Two-is-one is true with charger and inverter; a large system may be worth choosing a modular/redundant N+1 type of rectifier (charger) or inverter.

I serviced UPS/standby power for 9 years. Everything from personal computer size to complete multi-story buildings.

I like the smaller generators. Something any able-bodied teen can move around or can be taken with me (wildfire, hurricane, whatever). As Wm Aprill's friend says, we're all "temporarily able".

[Tensaw]

Just a quick note on TBone's comment re: rotating gas. If you are running non-ethanol gas on the genny, do NOT mix that with ethanol gas in your car. You will experience problems. If you are going to run/store ethanol gas, keep the container as full as possible and sealed to cut down on water absorption. The PRI-G or Marine Sta-bil helps too. Lastly, if you start experiencing hard starting or surging, try some Sea Foam. That stuff has "fixed" more outboard motors than I can count.

[zuplex]

One of the best resources I've seen for emergency home power and preparedness in general is the info put out by a guy named Steven Harris. He has some free podcast interviews and also videos available for purchase that give detailed information on generators, fuel storage, inverters, battery banks, and more. I purchased his videos when he had a discount running (he often does; sign up for his email list if you're interested in the videos) and I recommend them for anyone looking for step-by-step instructions and tips for understanding and generating emergency power.

http://www.steven1234.com - all his stuff is here. The website design sucks, but the info is good.

Note: I am in no way affiliated with Mr. Harris and derive no benefit from posting this information

[GuanoLoco]

I haven’t tried hooking of up to the house and running a gaspack furnace on it yet.

Interesting idea. I don’t have a transfer switch but I guess you can just pull the manual cut-off in a pinch.

Warning: Brief research indicates that this is a VERY bad idea for yourself and others. Do your homework BEFORE you lose power and internet connection. Research transfer switches for the right way to do it.

[Alembic]

Fuel: If I remember correctly. Propane is not as fuel-efficient as diesel, which is not as fuel-efficient as gasoline, but propane ofcourse has almost unlimited storage time.
A duel fuel model seemed like a interesting option, but I'm not an expert.
Thoughts?

[Tensaw]

Alembic - yeah, all of that sounds right to me. Fuel storage seems to be the bane/achilles heel of emergency generators. When you need them the most, fuel is the least accessible and expensive to get. I live on the gulf coast. I run non-ethanol in all of me small engines except the generator. This under the theory that when the local infrastructure gets stomped flat by a storm, I will be doing good to get gas at all, much less non-ethanol. That said, there are stories of people doing well with diesel, propane, and even LNG (I think) - because the demand for those fuels post-disaster is not as great as for gasoline. As an aside, I also remember hearing of folks who, after Ivan and Katrina, just kicked over to the whole house generator and continued to live like they were still hooked to the grid. This lasted for a week or 10 days. When the LNG/propane bill came due, they were not happy campers.

I keep a small window unit in the shed - still in the original box. The idea here is that when the power goes out, we will all pile into one small room where the window unit has been installed and at least have a cool place to sleep. Actually have done this once - when the central AC took a dump late one afternoon and it was going to be the next day before my AC guy could come out. It worked fine.

[serialsolver]

I have a 11kw generac with a automatic transfer switch and runs off propane. It’s not big enough to run the whole house so I manage the use of electricity from the panel. It will keep the refrigerator and freezer, fans, tv and a window unit going. I have a 500 gallon propane tank and that’s supposed to power it for a week (don’t really want to know for sure). The electricity occasionally goes out here and since my wife is handicapped and uses a lift chair the generator is very handy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ragnar_d]

I know its annecdotal, but down where I work there are a lot of food trucks/taco trucks around at lunch time and just about all of them have either a Honda or the HF knockoff. Those things are running hours and hours daily and there's one old eu2000 that's almost faded white. Never talked to the guys to get the scoop but I'd imagine that most of those generators have been run hard. Also, I don't recall where I heard about it or read it, but there was some information floating around that the HF inverter generators were such a close clone of the Honda EU engines that lawyers were involved. Some here are saying Yamaha, so who knows for sure.


One of the best resources I've seen for emergency home power and preparedness in general is the info put out by a guy named Steven Harris. He has some free podcast interviews and also videos available for purchase that give detailed information on generators, fuel storage, inverters, battery banks, and more. I purchased his videos when he had a discount running (he often does; sign up for his email list if you're interested in the videos) and I recommend them for anyone looking for step-by-step instructions and tips for understanding and generating emergency power.

http://www.steven1234.com - all his stuff is here. The website design sucks, but the info is good.

Note: I am in no way affiliated with Mr. Harris and derive no benefit from posting this information

I was first exposed to Mr. Harris a few years ago via TSP. I'm a big fan of his work. While I don't agree with everything he says (I'm not a fan of ethanol gas, he insists that it's perfectly okay), but I cannot disagree with the work he puts in to his stuff and he's got a solid background for the work. I've implemented a lot of things from his shows with Jack Spirko/TSP and will be doing more as resources allow. Right now, I'm building up one of his battery banks with some group 31 marine batteries and a couple inverters (800W & 1600W) as a backup power solution. Also looking at getting a EU2000 to supplement my old 5kw Techumseh/Generac generator. I love the ability of the 5kw generator, but damn is it loud and thirsty. I'm watching a few sites as someone said they had picked up a EU2000 for under $800 here (http://www.electricgeneratordepot.com), so I'm watching for sales there again.


Don't forget about the option of used, brand name gensets. I picked up an EU3000is a few years ago for $700 off CL. Heck of a machine for peanuts price tag. Obviously the std used-equip buying caveats apply, but a ton of stuff on the used market is near pristine.
I'm going to be watching Craigslist for some deals. I would imagine that once hurricane season passes, there will be a lot of people selling theirs because they didn't use them and would rather have the cash.

[schüler]

Fuel: If I remember correctly. Propane is not as fuel-efficient as diesel, which is not as fuel-efficient as gasoline, but propane ofcourse has almost unlimited storage time.
A duel fuel model seemed like a interesting option, but I'm not an expert.
Thoughts?

You already mentioned output de-rating and long term storage advantage.

90-100lb LPG tanks are easily moved with a hand truck, responsible transport and storage must be considered. Realize that exchange 20lb cylinders (really, 16lb due to 80% fill) are not always full.

Dangerous emissions are much lower with propane, no problems working in say a vented garage during a hurricane.

Oil changes show the much cleaner burning fuel - oil is darker but still clear. My brother's FIL managed a Honda powersports store for 12yrs. He says the worst things people do with small generators is neglect oil change schedule. It helps to put a small fan on the engine for cooling.

The only thing I don't like is the external mounting of the regulator. Not the greatest if you're throwing it in the back of the truck all the time without protecting that.

My brother has a Honda 6k he converted to tri-fuel. He uses propane is a backup option only, has a few 90lb tanks. He doesn't keep bulk gasoline beyond yard machine needs unless a hurricane or hard frost is due for SE TX.

[schüler]

I know its annecdotal, but down where I work there are a lot of food trucks/taco trucks around at lunch time and just about all of them have either a Honda or the HF knockoff. Those things are running hours and hours daily and there's one old eu2000 that's almost faded white. Never talked to the guys to get the scoop but I'd imagine that most of those generators have been run hard.
...

Around here it's 90% Hondas and Miller welder/gen on the job sites. All of the others look newer... for a reason.

[Surf]

I run several generators between 3 properties and have upgraded generators over the years. I am by no means an expert, but I seem to have several and I have gone towards the known in reagards to quality or proven performance when it comes to generators. I think you need to understand your need and purchase accordingly when it comes to fuel type as they all have pros and cons. Initial purchase price, cost to run the generator, maintenance schedules, and service life are factors but depending on how much you use the genset these factors can be misleading. Ideally, redundancy and options are a good thing especially if your consideration is for power in a disaster situation.

For portable generators, I have run Smarter Tools AP2000i SinePower Pro and two Champion 2000's. I upgraded to a single Honda EU1000i and two Honda EU2000i gensets. I heavily considered Yamaha's but our Honda Dealer has an annual sale and the Honda EU2000's were $850 for the standard and $900 for the companion version with 30A outlet. Also the dealer included the parallel cable kit in the sale. Not sure if this type of annual sale is standard across dealers, or just this particular dealers annual promotion.
Honda's are definitely not the cheapest options in this size of generator.

I sold the Smarter Tools and Champions as the load capability was not as good. Also, the Champions were a bit heavier and bulkier than I wanted. I like that the two Honda 2K gensets can be easily run in parallel, have great fuel efficiency, and the portability was a big factor. A single 3K or larger genset is harder to load and unload as opposed to two smaller ones. Plus the addition of using just one or both, maybe in different locations is appealing.

In the 5-7K range, I had a Coleman powered by a Briggs and Stratton that was very loud and is now dead. I still have a 7K PowerBoss with Honda engine with a LOT of hours on it, still going strong, a Honda EM6500SX and I recently picked up a Champion 7500 Dual Fuel that Costco either had an unreal sale or mispriced them. I have had good success with the PowerBoss and the Honda EM6500SX. The EM6500 has a remote start wired and is quieter than the PowerBoss but not as quiet as the EU line. The Champion 7500 is still in the box.

For Diesel, I have 3 Military gensets and all 3 are the tactical quiet variants. One 5K MEP-802A and two 10K MEP803A's. I will say that they are a good 15-20% underrated on power output. 1 is trailer mounted the other 2 are skid. As for Diesel generators, these things are beasts and very quiet for their size.

This is what my usage looks like;

Location #1, Residence. Grid-tied. No NG supply, possible delivery for Propane. Dual Honda EU2000's for portability and backup power as needed. One 10K MEP803A for primary back-up power. I rotate gas and diesel into my vehicles and small gas power tools.

Location #2, Residence/Ranch. Grid-tied. No NG supply, possible delivery for Propane. MEP803A for primary backup and a PowerBoss7K for portable power supply moved via tractor as needed. Diesel, Gas and propane storage on site. Diesel for trucks, machinery, generator. Diesel does not sit long enough to need rotating and supply is routiely maintained to full levels. Gas is rotated into vehicles and small gas operated equipment. In addition there is a tailered Miller welder/genset that could supply power. We have considered a PTO genset, but don't find it necessary.

Location #3, Residence/Farm/Hunting/Recreation. 100% off Grid, currently with low power demands. Biggest power draw is water pump from catchment into residence and it is overkill at the moment. No NG supply, possible delivery for Propane. Primary power is via generator with solar in the works. Generators that are on site, Honda EU1K, Honda EM6500SX, Champion 7500 Dual Fuel, and MEP802. Currently being off grid the power is supplied to different structures with its own generator. When complete, solar will fill primary power role to main residence with generator backup. Some structures will remain generator for primary power as that need is not full time. Generator backup options are Gas, Diesel and Propane. Propane storage for appliances and backup generation, plus gas and Diesel storage. Rotation is also done via equipment.

[Welder]

Fuel: If I remember correctly. Propane is not as fuel-efficient as diesel, which is not as fuel-efficient as gasoline, but propane ofcourse has almost unlimited storage time.

Alembic, I think you will find that a search on BTU/gal output of common fuels will rank them as Natural Gas (not in your list), Propane, Gasoline, and Diesel, with Diesel having the most BTU/gal and NG the least.

Propane's main advantages are it's 'shelf life' and how clean-burning it is, but storage is a hassle and topping back off is a potential issue in an emergency situation. At the risk of stating something already commonly known, propane is usually used in vapor form by generators, but stored in a liquid form in tanks. The liquid in the tank off-gasses as vapor is drawn off, keeping a constant internal pressure. It takes a certain amount of time for the liquid to change to gas, so a large genset is going to require a tank big enough to vaporize quickly enough to run the engine. More rare are gensets that draw liquid propane in to run on. Small tanks such as BBQ tanks, for example, won't power a large generator at all -- they don't have a liquid port and aren't of sufficient size to produce the vapor needed for a good-sized engine. So where on a gasoline-powered genset you *can* run it if you come up with an extra 1/2 gallon of gas, you won't be able to do that on a sizable propane generator if you come up with a full BBQ tank. Hope this makes sense; I can clarify if it doesn't.

Diesel is the most efficient per unit of fuel and stores better than gasoline, but it can't be stored indefinitely and in some cases is harder to come by in emergencies. If you run out of fuel in a diesel genset, you'll often have to go through a fuel bleeding process to get it running again -- something that a fair amount of people are not familiar with. I know of some diesel fuel systems that are self-bleeding, but am unsure of how many gensets are using this type of fuel system.

Gasoline has the shortest storage life but better efficiency than propane and NG. Most people will be paying road tax on gasoline, so it isn't quite as economical as it could be, and then you have the ethanol issues as well. All that said, gasoline is still probably the best fuel choice for a small genset.

It should be noted that NG, propane, and gasoline all run on spark-ignition engines, so they're similar and dual-fuel options are available aftermarket if not from the manufacturer. Diesels are of course compression-ignition.

NG and propane are similar enough that a small tweak to the fuel system will allow you to swap between the two on the same engine. NG is much cheaper, but us country folk don't have access to it, but rather have propane instead.

[LittleLebowski]

Warning: Brief research indicates that this is a VERY bad idea for yourself and others. Do your homework BEFORE you lose power and internet connection. Research transfer switches for the right way to do it.

The Interlockkit (https://www.interlockkit.com) is seemingly much cheaper, although not automated.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm torn in between the HF 2000w (https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html) and the HF 3500w (https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html) inverter gennys, but will prolly go with the latter as I want a genny that my wife can simply fire up and use, no screwing around with parallel cables, therefore the more powerful, the better. Furthermore, Northern Tool sells this parallel cable kit (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660536_200660536) for their version of the HF 3500w inverter genny (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660221_200660221) so I can plan to buy another 3500 w in the future and double available power.

[Alembic]

The Interlockkit (https://www.interlockkit.com) is seemingly much cheaper, although not automated.
I have the interlock kit on our breaker. A simple breaker lock that keeps you from running your genny power back into the grid and potentially electrocuting the lineman tryng to restore power. Not a bad precaution.

[David S.]

Generac has a 2000w inverter generator for $800 on amazon. Can be paralleled. Advertises it's quieter and smarter than the Honda.

Don't forget that your car is just an inexpensive 800-1400W inverter away from being a portable generator. It's not optimal for every situation, but it's a good emergency option.

Another +1 on Steven Harris work. I have a portable battery bank (Single deep cycle) started.

[hufnagel]

The Interlockkit (https://www.interlockkit.com) is seemingly much cheaper, although not automated.

Makes it very easy, and safe, to backfeed your entire panel. then you can pick and choose what circuits get power, and when. install a power inlet box on the outside of your house, and it's just a matter of connect one cord, start generator, throw interlock. I have one on my panel for this reason.

also, have you thrown AVR (automatic voltage regulation) equipped generators into your search? not as good as a full blown inverter genset, but lots cheaper and much cleaner power output than a standard generator.

[Jaywalker]

Just a quick note on TBone's comment re: rotating gas. If you are running non-ethanol gas on the genny, do NOT mix that with ethanol gas in your car. You will experience problems.
Can you elaborate on this? Lots of general aviation people use a mix of mogas (91 octane LL) and avgas (100LL) in their aircraft.

[LittleLebowski]

Generac has a 2000w inverter generator for $800 on amazon. Can be paralleled. Advertises it's quieter and smarter than the Honda.

Don't forget that your car is just an inexpensive 800-1400W inverter away from being a portable generator. It's not optimal for every situation, but it's a good emergency option.

Another +1 on Steven Harris work. I have a portable battery bank (Single deep cycle) started.

I'll bet that Generac (https://www.amazon.com/Generac-6866-Starting-Inverter-Generator/dp/B0128KR4EE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1508175515&sr=8-4&keywords=generac+inverter+generator) is the same mechanically as the $400 HF 2000w.

[LittleLebowski]

I have the interlock kit on our breaker. A simple breaker lock that keeps you from running your genny power back into the grid and potentially electrocuting the lineman tryng to restore power. Not a bad precaution.

Did you install it?

[Alembic]

Did you install it?

I did not. A licenced electrician wired the panel.

It's like a second main breaker and the plate on the panel only allows one to be switched "on" at a time. I have a 40ft. 30amp cord, so I can run a generator in our detached garage. Huf described it correctly and better than I am.

We choose this route over a whole house system because I can pick what circuits I want on or off, and size my generator to match the minimum load/usage we can get by on. I guess you can turn off individual breakers with a whole house system as well, but the Generac and Cummings guys would only install a system that met the needs of the whole house, which in my case was 20kw system, quoted at over $15,000 installed.

The one consideration the Generac guys brought up, is that these potable units are not designed to run for days on end as the whole house propane units are. Not sure how true this is, but we plan to only use enough to keep the house from freezing in winter storms.

I have not bought a gen set yet, but I greatly appreciate your research and this thread.

208932089220894

[PT Doc]

I'm torn in between the HF 2000w (https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html) and the HF 3500w (https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html) inverter gennys, but will prolly go with the latter as I want a genny that my wife can simply fire up and use, no screwing around with parallel cables, therefore the more powerful, the better. Furthermore, Northern Tool sells this parallel cable kit (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660536_200660536) for their version of the HF 3500w inverter genny (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660221_200660221) so I can plan to buy another 3500 w in the future and double available power.I have no personal experience with this brand, but it also offers dual fuel capability. Obviously an increase in price, but more flexibility.
https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-100263-Generator/dp/B01FAWMMEY/ref=pd_sbs_86_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01FAWMMEY&pd_rd_r=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&pd_rd_w=2y1nS&pd_rd_wg=sfk4T&psc=1&refRID=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&tag=tapainc-20

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

I have no personal experience with this brand, but it also offers dual fuel capability. Obviously an increase in price, but more flexibility.
https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-100263-Generator/dp/B01FAWMMEY/ref=pd_sbs_86_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01FAWMMEY&pd_rd_r=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&pd_rd_w=2y1nS&pd_rd_wg=sfk4T&psc=1&refRID=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&tag=tapainc-20


Install this for $187 (https://www.motorsnorkel.com/motor-snorkel-tri-fuel-natural-gas-propane-and-gasoline-conversion-kit-3531.html) on a cheaper model, pocket a hundred or so in savings :cool:

[NEPAKevin]

I have no personal experience with this brand, but it also offers dual fuel capability. Obviously an increase in price, but more flexibility.
https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-100263-Generator/dp/B01FAWMMEY/ref=pd_sbs_86_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01FAWMMEY&pd_rd_r=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&pd_rd_w=2y1nS&pd_rd_wg=sfk4T&psc=1&refRID=9EJFHQFB6CVDFRGC43AZ&tag=tapainc-20

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I have that generator. Got it when Home Depot had them on sale. Has enough power to run a good sized wall mount A/C unit but overloaded when the A/C, fridge, and sump pump all kicked in at the same time and I had it running on the eco setting.

Overloading can also be an issue with the interlock system. They are a brilliantly simple solution that give a lot of versatility and are perfect for a single man with some common sense living alone. Going to stop right there.

[NEPAKevin]

Install this for $49 (https://www.motorsnorkel.com/motor-snorkel-tri-fuel-natural-gas-propane-and-gasoline-conversion-kit-3531.html) on a cheaper model, pocket a few hundred in savings :cool:

Am I reading the wrong thing? That unit says $187.00

[LittleLebowski]

Am I reading the wrong thing? That unit says $187.00

No, I’m a tard.

[LittleLebowski]

I have that generator. Got it when Home Depot had them on sale. Has enough power to run a good sized wall mount A/C unit but overloaded when the A/C, fridge, and sump pump all kicked in at the same time and I had it running on the eco setting.

Overloading can also be an issue with the interlock system. They are a brilliantly simple solution that give a lot of versatility and are perfect for a single man with some common sense living alone. Going to stop right there.

Grab an HF 2000w to spread the load.

[hufnagel]

I have that generator. Got it when Home Depot had them on sale. Has enough power to run a good sized wall mount A/C unit but overloaded when the A/C, fridge, and sump pump all kicked in at the same time and I had it running on the eco setting.

Overloading can also be an issue with the interlock system. They are a brilliantly simple solution that give a lot of versatility and are perfect for a single man with some common sense living alone. Going to stop right there.

If you have a wife that occasionally listens, it can be done for those of us who are not single. :D
My anecdotal evidence (as I've posted before elsewhere) is a 5500W generator running for 16.5 hours a day using 5 gallons of gasoline (also each day) for 2 weeks straight. We ran every appliance we wanted to in the house, except for the central A/C condenser, on a mindful, rotating schedule, without too much difficulty. Every night I'd shut down the generator and throw the interlock back to pole power, just in case it came back on.

I think most of the rational people out there, including most in here, are able to deal with some disruption of their normal daily activities, provided the disruption isn't catastrophic. I want to say it only took 2 or 3 days to get into a "groove" of when things got used, so as to not accidentally run the hair dryer and microwave at the same time (the morons who built my house for some insane reason had both those outlets on the same breaker. Madness.) Laundry cycles changed slightly, so that both machines weren't active at the same time (dryer is gas, so it's electric draw wasn't nearly as bad as it could be,) dish washer shouldn't be run out of cycle with those two as well, etc. One bright thing out of all of that was we actually became more mindful of our overall power usage in general.

[rayrevolver]

I would be worried about the HF gen lasting. I got lucky with my Kipor, but also had to take it apart to replace a fuel valve.

How far are you from DC?
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/tls/d/generator-honda-inverter/6343613232.html

Edit: I hate to use an analogy, but is a HF/Predator genny like a Hipoint and people are saying, man get the Glock for a few hundo more???

Generac is common down here (MD) . Outside of a used Honda, I might run down that path to supplement my Kipor.

But still not sure if Predator = Generac or not.

[Welder]

Can you elaborate on this? Lots of general aviation people use a mix of mogas (91 octane LL) and avgas (100LL) in their aircraft.

I'm not the person you're directing this to, but I did make the comments that this person was originally referencing.

I fill my personal and business vehicles at a non-ethanol station, but if I go out of the area I'm going to have to be using ethanol fuel. Adding non-ethanol gas to ethanol blended fuel in the tank should basically just decrease the ratio of ethanol in the tank. It's the same as filling at one pump that uses E15 and the next that uses E10 or E0. Flex-fuel vehicles which are rated to E85 are capable of running lesser blends of ethanol all the way back to straight gasoline. Even they don't require ethanol to run properly.

So I too would like to understand the logic in the comment.

[LittleLebowski]

I would be worried about the HF gen lasting. I got lucky with my Kipor, but also had to take it apart to replace a fuel valve.

How far are you from DC?
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/tls/d/generator-honda-inverter/6343613232.html

Edit: I hate to use an analogy, but is a HF/Predator genny like a Hipoint and people are saying, man get the Glock for a few hundo more???

Generac is common down here (MD) . Outside of a used Honda, I might run down that path to supplement my Kipor.

But still not sure if Predator = Generac or not.

I actually contacted them about that one - scam. See if you can spot it, they asked for “Amazon payment” to amazon.secure-checkouts.com

[rayrevolver]

Ah, that sucks but it did seem like a sweet deal!

I have a gi-normous LP tank burried in the yard. In the 200 or 300 gallon range. I wonder if it makes sense to get a tri-fuel generator and just install a tap off that thing? I have a few BBQ sized tanks and can always get more of the bigger ones as well.


Can you elaborate on this? Lots of general aviation people use a mix of mogas (91 octane LL) and avgas (100LL) in their aircraft.

From a quick google search:
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Busting-Ethanol-Fuel-Myths
The most likely time for fuel problems occurs when you first begin using ethanol-blended fuel. When E10 is added to a fuel system that has been using non-ethanol gasoline, ethanol, as a new solvent, will tend to dissolve and loosen deposits that are present in the tank and fuel system. Phase separation may occur, resulting in an approximately 50/50 ethanol and water layer at the bottom of the fuel tank.

*******

Mogas is unleaded, no? I used to work the line at a small airport, drove a 100LL and Jet A truck. Everyone now and then guys wanted to buy 100LL for their tricked out cars and we were told the lead killed catalytic converters.

Further thread drift, we use a lot of acronyms in aviation. I guess they work since I still remember most of them.

Here is one for Avgas:
80/87 is red, 100LL is blue, 100/130 is green, 115/145 is purple
Rich Boys Get Pu**y = Red Blue Green Purple = 80 100 130 145

[LittleLebowski]

Edit: I hate to use an analogy, but is a HF/Predator genny like a Hipoint and people are saying, man get the Glock for a few hundo more???

Generac is common down here (MD) . Outside of a used Honda, I might run down that path to supplement my Kipor.

But still not sure if Predator = Generac or not.

Actually (depending on the model), the HF ones are bit by bit clones of either Honda (“Chonda”) or Yamaha gennys. Also, Generac sells the very same generator that HF does (2000w). Not “same design,” actually made in the same factory with indentical stamps/engraving on the block and slightly different fascia on the outside.

Take a moment to Google “Harbor Freight inverter generator review.”

[LittleLebowski]

Ever since I drilled out my Champion’s main jet, it starts on the first pull on months old to year old ethanol gas.

[Jaywalker]

From a quick google search:
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Busting-Ethanol-Fuel-Myths
The most likely time for fuel problems occurs when you first begin using ethanol-blended fuel. When E10 is added to a fuel system that has been using non-ethanol gasoline, ethanol, as a new solvent, will tend to dissolve and loosen deposits that are present in the tank and fuel system. Phase separation may occur, resulting in an approximately 50/50 ethanol and water layer at the bottom of the fuel tank.

*******

Mogas is unleaded, no? I used to work the line at a small airport, drove a 100LL and Jet A truck. Everyone now and then guys wanted to buy 100LL for their tricked out cars and we were told the lead killed catalytic converters.

Further thread drift, we use a lot of acronyms in aviation. I guess they work since I still remember most of them.

Here is one for Avgas:
80/87 is red, 100LL is blue, 100/130 is green, 115/145 is purple
Rich Boys Get Pu**y = Red Blue Green Purple = 80 100 130 145
Thanks, rayrevolver, now I know where you're coming from on the different blends of gas. It may well be different with today's engines which are designed for no lead gas then using leaded, compared to older aircraft engines which are designed for leaded then using unleaded.

[LittleLebowski]

I currently have a traditional/“smoke and noise” Champion 3500w genny. Traditional/“smoke and noise” gennys run at full speed all of the time and can not adjust to power draw needs. I had problems with fuel starvation on this one, a brand new carburetor did not fix the problem. The EPA restrictions (for “air quality”) in conjunction with ethanol gas make this a very common problem with carbureted small engines. The solution is to drill out the main jet on the carb. Doing that made my previously deadlines and unusable Champion, a one pull to start on one year old ethanol gas generator. No shit.

Follow up thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28140-How-I-fixed-my-surging-Champion-generator

[tanner]

So help an uneducated brother out... Seems like this is the case, but I want to make sure.

I buy two 2000 watt generators and use the parallel cables. I have the full 4000 watt equivalent? Or two 3500s = one 7000?

[LittleLebowski]

So help an uneducated brother out... Seems like this is the case, but I want to make sure.

I buy two 2000 watt generators and use the parallel cables. I have the full 4000 watt equivalent? Or two 3500s = one 7000?

Yes and yes. Don’t buy anything without running it past us first, just to make sure. If you buy two 3500s, I’m gonna be jelly.

[ragnar_d]

The one consideration the Generac guys brought up, is that these potable units are not designed to run for days on end as the whole house propane units are. Not sure how true this is, but we plan to only use enough to keep the house from freezing in winter storms.
My thing about the whole house/running everything at once is that in the instance of a power outage, I don't need to be able to power everything at once. Pretty much the only thing I'll want to do is keep the fridge/freezers cool, cool down a bedroom or two, and recharge the battery banks that are running everything else. Might just be all the times I went camping growing up . . . if the family can get by for 2 weeks in a pop-up camper, a few days running on a smaller generator would be cake.

That's one reason I've been looking at a 2kw inverter generator. It'll do 95% of what I need from a generator, is easier to tote around (a 2k would have been nice to take with us when we bugged out to my buddy's place), goes easier on the fuel reserves, and would probably be easier for my wife to deal with should she need it if I'm out of town. Then, if I need the heavy artillery I can get the 5k out of the garage and swap the 2k out. When we were back "up north" (northern AL), the cold weather plan was electric blankets and a propane space heater running off the 40# propane cylinders, so we didn't need to deal with the large draw of the heaters and could still run on the same generator that we would during the summer.

[LittleLebowski]

Big updates in my collation on the 2000w inverters (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28087-The-PF-generator-thread&p=662822&viewfull=1#post662822), linked to in the first post as well. Check it out.

[David S.]

Can you parallel a 3500 and a 2000?

That would be pretty versatile. A very portable 2000w and a heavier 3500w for situation demands.

[NEPAKevin]

My thing about the whole house/running everything at once is that in the instance of a power outage, I don't need to be able to power everything at once.


I have been thinking about the whole hose auto transfer units for some time. Main obstacle is justifying the initial cost vs how often we have extended power outages. That said, power seems to usually go down when its some combination of inconvenient conditions i.e. cold, dark, wet, etc. As one gets older, the novelty of dragging out generators and cables, hooking them up, starting them, keeping them fueled, etc. and then putting everything away afterwards diminishes. The thought of just counting to ten and listening for old faithful to fire up and the light come back on has a luxurious, almost decedent appeal.

[hufnagel]

One of the biggest issues is people do not keep up on the maintenance schedule for any other generators. Whatever you get, read the book and follow the maintenance schedule religiously. Most of these units don't have oil coolers or even oil filters, so the oil especially takes a hell of a beating as compared to say your automobile engine. I've seen a number of portable and whole house units destroyed simply because people didn't change the oil on a regular basis. It's really impressive how far you can throw a piston out the side of a block on these little things.

[NEPAKevin]

I read that its a good idea after initial break in to use synthetic oil in generators. Probably not a bad idea, all things considered.

[LittleLebowski]

Can you parallel a 3500 and a 2000?

That would be pretty versatile. A very portable 2000w and a heavier 3500w for situation demands.

Yes, but you would be limited to 4000w, the top output of the smallest one.

[LittleLebowski]

The shared design is pretty obvious to me.

Yamaha EF2000, $986 (https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF2000iSv2-Starting-Portable-Inverter/dp/B002RWK9N2)

Firman 2000w inverter, $405 (https://www.amazon.com/Firman-Generators-SPS2000I-SPS2000i-Inverter/dp/B00YD04J64/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1508299249&sr=8-13&keywords=2000+inverter+generator)

Harbor Freight 2000w inverter, $499 MSRP but usually $450 with coupon (https://t.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om%2F)

Quip-All 2200i 2200w inverter for $449 (https://www.amazon.com/Quip-All-2200I-Portable-Inverter-Generator/dp/B071G57RTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508300326&sr=8-1&keywords=quip+all+generator)

Wen 56200i 2000w inverter, $499 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-2000-Watt-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-56200i/205825829)

Powerbuilt S2000is inverter, $449 (https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-Portable-Inverter-Parallel-Generator/dp/B073WGX4M4/ref=pd_sbs_86_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B073WGX4M4&pd_rd_r=EWYAVRH8H9WYSQBCS6M6&pd_rd_w=okBJR&pd_rd_wg=pOLRu&psc=1&refRID=EWYAVRH8H9WYSQBCS6M6&dpID=51UL0Z-GXiL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail)

20942

Note the similarities.

[LittleLebowski]

HF 3500w inverter generator ordered. Used coupon code 56687336 to knock $50 off of the price and shipping was seven dollars to my door.

[tanner]

Yes and yes. Don’t buy anything without running it past us first, just to make sure. If you buy two 3500s, I’m gonna be jelly.

Thank you sir.

[hufnagel]

I read that its a good idea after initial break in to use synthetic oil in generators. Probably not a bad idea, all things considered.

I do indeed put full synthetic in all the generators I service for clients (I might be a computer guy, but as long as i'm getting paid my usual hourly rate I'll do whatever the client asks, as long as it's not TOO illegal.)

[hufnagel]

I wish someone made a 120/240 inverter generator. with slave capability would be even more awesome.

[ragnar_d]

One of the biggest issues is people do not keep up on the maintenance schedule for any other generators. Whatever you get, read the book and follow the maintenance schedule religiously. Most of these units don't have oil coolers or even oil filters, so the oil especially takes a hell of a beating as compared to say your automobile engine. I've seen a number of portable and whole house units destroyed simply because people didn't change the oil on a regular basis. It's really impressive how far you can throw a piston out the side of a block on these little things.
Growing up with a dad that worked in the auto parts/small engine parts stores, PM was something that I've always been extremely anal about. Especially on small engines.


I have been thinking about the whole hose auto transfer units for some time. Main obstacle is justifying the initial cost vs how often we have extended power outages. That said, power seems to usually go down when its some combination of inconvenient conditions i.e. cold, dark, wet, etc. As one gets older, the novelty of dragging out generators and cables, hooking them up, starting them, keeping them fueled, etc. and then putting everything away afterwards diminishes. The thought of just counting to ten and listening for old faithful to fire up and the light come back on has a luxurious, almost decedent appeal.
I definitely get that. I think a whole house would be a nice setup , but I'm not quite there yet. Plus, I don't want to put a big capital investment in and then have to move out to chase another job. If we're going to be somewhere that I can put some serious roots down, then we'll see . . . but having 6 addresses in 3-4 years has me gunshy on making major investments in a house.

[Spartan1980]

I have been thinking about the whole hose auto transfer units for some time. Main obstacle is justifying the initial cost vs how often we have extended power outages. That said, power seems to usually go down when its some combination of inconvenient conditions i.e. cold, dark, wet, etc. As one gets older, the novelty of dragging out generators and cables, hooking them up, starting them, keeping them fueled, etc. and then putting everything away afterwards diminishes. The thought of just counting to ten and listening for old faithful to fire up and the light come back on has a luxurious, almost decedent appeal.

I had one installed at my mother's house. A few years ago we were hit with a 100 year ice storm. I lucked out and got a 5500W Coleman unit from the big box store the day before it hit. And of course my power never went out. But mom's did. After 3 days I loaded it up and took it over. She didn't want me to because she was worried that I wouldn't have it if mine dropped. She was so thankful for a cup of coffee, a little lamp and small TV that evening. Her fridge and freezer didn't need restocked and her gas heat was up and running to keep things livable. She now has a Generac whole house unit after having her own portable for a few years. She's not needed anything since that ice storm but it's gives her peace of mind knowing it's there. That's worth the price paid.

If you go that route, be sure to have a reputable dealer do the install. She only needed a 14KW unit to do what she needed. She can run her central A/C, stove and built-in oven, plus lights, fridge and a freezer all at the same time. I watched them test it. What she can't do is start them all at the same time. The smart switch takes care of that and won't overload the unit. Most installers will default to putting in a 20KW+ unit if you want to run central air. That's not necessarily required if your stuff is of a recent vintage. A reputable installer will measure it all and get you the unit you need and set it up properly. We saved her about $1200 by having it done right.

[hufnagel]

Growing up with a dad that worked in the auto parts/small engine parts stores, PM was something that I've always been extremely anal about. Especially on small engines.


I definitely get that. I think a whole house would be a nice setup , but I'm not quite there yet. Plus, I don't want to put a big capital investment in and then have to move out to chase another job. If we're going to be somewhere that I can put some serious roots down, then we'll see . . . but having 6 addresses in 3-4 years has me gunshy on making major investments in a house.

Big Thumbs Up to PM.

As for the permanent whole house units, i'm in the same mind set for the most part. Yea it'd be sweet to never think about it, but it's big $$$, i'm already in a fight with the town over zoning/permits as it is, and I like the idea of knowing that, for the most part, I can plug in any 240v capable generator to my inlet and get the house running in some fashion. I want a bigger generator, but I'd most likely keep the small one as a backup, just in case. I'm not TOTALLY paranoid you know... just slightly. :D

[GuanoLoco]

Can you elaborate on this? Lots of general aviation people use a mix of mogas (91 octane LL) and avgas (100LL) in their aircraft.

I’m not buying the “don’t mix ethanol-free gas with ethanol E10 gas”. Show me.

[David S.]

I’m seeing pre-loved 16k Generac units on Craigslist for under $3k. They appear to be in good shape.

That would probably be a really good size for a typical size home if you have modern Energy Star appliances, and can be a little bit energy conscious.

[Grey]

I’m seeing pre-loved 16k Generac units on Craigslist for under $3k. They appear to be in good shape.

That would probably be a really good size for a typical size home if you have modern Energy Star appliances, and can be a little bit energy conscious.Might have to look into this. Been thinking about a whole house system.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[NEPAKevin]

I wish someone made a 120/240 inverter generator. with slave capability would be even more awesome.

I was looking for a 120/240V inverter generator and the ones I found were the Honda EU6500is and EU7000is, the Yamaha EF6300iSDE and the Briggs & Stratton Q6500. The B&S was the least expensive but had a good number of negative reviews on Home Depot's site (which no longer has that model listed) that the specs for the 240 hook-up were deceptive and that the unit actually only puts out 20A. The other units are close to $4000 new which is almost into the neighborhood of a small whole house set up. Finding a good used one at a good price would be nice but ... ETA, the main reason I was looking for 240 is to run the well pump and I'm not sure any of the units have the output to handle the start up. FWIW, I'm looking into the Kohlers now.

[LittleLebowski]

I was looking for a 120/240V inverter generator and the ones I found were the Honda EU6500is and EU7000is, the Yamaha EF6300iSDE and the Briggs & Stratton Q6500. The B&S was the least expensive but had a good number of negative reviews on Home Depot's site (which no longer has that model listed) that the specs for the 240 hook-up were deceptive and that the unit actually only puts out 20A. The other units are close to $4000 new which is almost into the neighborhood of a small whole house set up. Finding a good used one at a good price would be nice but ... ETA, the main reason I was looking for 240 is to run the well pump and I'm not sure any of the units have the output to handle the start up. FWIW, I'm looking into the Kohlers now.

Why do you need an inverter genny for the well pump? I'm sure you posted why and I missed it....

[NEPAKevin]

Why do you need an inverter genny for the well pump? I'm sure you posted why and I missed it....

The well pump does not need the inverter, however, since I installed the manual transfer switch, fifteen plus years ago, many of the other circuits now have sensitive electronics plugged into them and it would be convenient to be able to plug in one generator that has clean power for that stuff and enough horses for the pump. The inverter generators also are much more fuel efficient as well as quiter.

[hufnagel]

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Briggs-&-Stratton-30675-Portable-Generator/p75239.html?akamaifeo=off

is that the B&S inverter generator people were talking about as being meh? The reviews seem to support that supposition to an extent. The price is tempting, but pull start doesn't help me as I want to do some automation in the future.

[NEPAKevin]

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Briggs-&-Stratton-30675-Portable-Generator/p75239.html?akamaifeo=off

is that the B&S inverter generator people were talking about as being meh?

Yup. Here's the link to the HD page.
(http://www.homedepot.com/p/Briggs-Stratton-Q6500-QuietPower-Series-6-500-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Inverter-Generator-with-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-030675/301871650?keyword=q6500)

[hufnagel]

I'd need to call and confirm to see if something like this does AC->DC->AC on line input, but has anyone given thought to using something like this as a buffer between a "dirty" generator and their loads? I'd almost think it'd have to since it doesn't carry the neutral for a proper line switching, although the manual does talk about an interruption period when it switches from battery to line input, so maybe i'm wrong.

https://www.sigineer.com/product/12000-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-48volt-to-120240vac-split-phase/

yea that's a big, expensive unit, they do make smaller ones, and if it can do cleanup duty it might be worth looking into?

I thought of it as I've been reviewing my potential solar install notes for other reasons.

[schüler]

I'd need to call and confirm to see if something like this does AC->DC->AC on line input
...
https://www.sigineer.com/product/12000-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-48volt-to-120240vac-split-phase/
...

You are reading it right. That inverter/charger is not a true online device and does not filter power. It is a standby device with a transfer switch, ~10mS which is the same as most cheap UPSs. I did not see specs on what is considered an incoming line "problem" that will initiate transfer to inverter.

Lightning is another unpredictable variable. That disrespectful bastage doesn't care about transfer switches or breaker interlocks.

[hufnagel]

Ironically I have something here that would work... APC Symmetra SY16K with 5 power supplies, but that's a bit on the "overkill" side. Well, maybe. if I ever get around to testing it again ( bought it for spare parts for a client, who didn't need need it after he sold his biz) maybe I will get froggy once again with it. :D That is unless someone else wants it.

[schüler]

Ironically I have something here that would work... APC Symmetra SY16K with 5 power supplies, but that's a bit on the "overkill" side. Well, maybe. if I ever get around to testing it again ( bought it for spare parts for a client, who didn't need need it after he sold his biz) maybe I will get froggy once again with it. :D That is unless someone else wants it.

The battery module cost per backup hour is way out of whack for extended runtimes in a home application... but it would make a nice filter for critical loads and - with a minimal battery plant - it could fill the gap between power fail and generator startup.

[David S.]

Steven Harris (http://solar1234.com) has been mentioned a couple times regarding emergency energy. A little ways down the page are two interviews he did on generators with Jack Spirko of The Survival Podcast. One is a discussion on choosing which type of generators is right for you. The other is how to connect and get the most out of your generator. Info is a couple years old, so he doesn’t discuss bargain inverter generators, like the Pretador line. A couple hours of good info, tho.

[Bobcat]

I’m not buying the “don’t mix ethanol-free gas with ethanol E10 gas”. Show me.

I was wondering that myself.
At some point we all converted our cars from ethanol free to E10 gas (remember "gasohol?"), and I don't recall any widespread problems.
Isn't E10 basically gasoline and ethanol, similar in concept but not chemically identical to gasoline and Drygas?

[Welder]

Just a quick note on TBone's comment re: rotating gas. If you are running non-ethanol gas on the genny, do NOT mix that with ethanol gas in your car. You will experience problems.

Tensaw, there are people questioning this. If you're sticking with it, please elaborate.

[jeep45238]

We’re looking at buying one for off-grid trailer camping - dual fuel would be nice, quiet is really important. Fridge will be LP powered, two ac units on board. Any suggestions?


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[Norville]

We went the whole house route. We moved to northern WI, power goes out a lot but not for long periods according to the neighbors. In the northeast we had a 5kw gas powered generator with transfer switch, but decided a 14kw Kohler served our current needs better. 1000 gal propane tank keep it running until power is restored.

[rayrevolver]

Monoprice emailed this out today:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15278

These types of things is what I was thinking about, although maybe a larger scale. This might not be a bad supplement for your house where you can run a computer and then charge it up when you run your generator.

[rayrevolver]

We went the whole house route. We moved to northern WI, power goes out a lot but not for long periods according to the neighbors. In the northeast we had a 5kw gas powered generator with transfer switch, but decided a 14kw Kohler served our current needs better. 1000 gal propane tank keep it running until power is restored.

Probably not a bad idea to do the math on how much propane its going to cost to run your house "like normal" on that Kohler. A co-worker said his dad had a similar setup and lost power for a whole week. They used things in the house like normal but when the gas bill came it was an eye-opener and they pared down to essentials.

[Norville]

Probably not a bad idea to do the math on how much propane its going to cost to run your house "like normal" on that Kohler. A co-worker said his dad had a similar setup and lost power for a whole week. They used things in the house like normal but when the gas bill came it was an eye-opener and they pared down to essentials.

A good point, but prolonged outages are rare per the long time neighborhood residents. I lived in New England where heavy wet snow would lead to days of power outage. Feeding the gasoline generator got old after 3-4 days so my wife and I decided the auto route was worth the extra cost and convenience. Contributing to th decision is being 25-30 minutes from the closest fire response. Storing my typical 12-15 gallons of gas was not appealing in light of that, even in a remote shed.

[LittleLebowski]

We’re looking at buying one for off-grid trailer camping - dual fuel would be nice, quiet is really important. Fridge will be LP powered, two ac units on board. Any suggestions?


I’d consider this 3500w/4000w surge Champion inverter (https://www.zoro.com/champion-portable-generator-inverter-3500w-100302/i/G7883961/). Amazon can’t beat this price since this has free shipping and Zorro.com also has coupons for additional savings if you look. Given your application, you need something like this hard start capacitor (https://www.amazon.com/SPP6-Capacitor-Increase-Starting-Torque/dp/B0002YTLFE) for your ACs.

[LittleLebowski]

Probably not a bad idea to do the math on how much propane its going to cost to run your house "like normal" on that Kohler. A co-worker said his dad had a similar setup and lost power for a whole week. They used things in the house like normal but when the gas bill came it was an eye-opener and they pared down to essentials.

Yup, just because you “can” does not mean you should.

[jeep45238]

I’d consider this 3500w/4000w surge Champion inverter (https://www.zoro.com/champion-portable-generator-inverter-3500w-100302/i/G7883961/). Amazon can’t beat this price since this has free shipping and Zorro.com also has coupons for additional savings if you look. Given your application, you need something like this hard start capacitor (https://www.amazon.com/SPP6-Capacitor-Increase-Starting-Torque/dp/B0002YTLFE) for your ACs.

That is WAY better than the 1.5-3.5 grand estimates I was coming up with. Thanks for the heads up on the capaciators also!

[LittleLebowski]

That is WAY better than the 1.5-3.5 grand estimates I was coming up with. Thanks for the heads up on the capaciators also!

Not to mention that you can buy two of these and double your output via parallel cable :cool:

[LittleLebowski]

That is WAY better than the 1.5-3.5 grand estimates I was coming up with. Thanks for the heads up on the capaciators also!

I honestly wish I'd seen this before ordering my HF 3500w inverter genny, which is on backorder. Maybe if these get back in stock, I'll cancel the HF order and get one of these instead.

[rayrevolver]

That champion isn't dual fuel. The dual fuel model is cheaper at $400 but does not output clean/sinewave power.

The dual fuel is $388 at Home Depot, so maybe if you get a coupon or are military with 10% off it's a better deal.

I think dual fuel is my path, just not sure what I want to run on it. The fireplace can keep a small part of the house warm but not the bed rooms. We have space heaters and can all sleep in one room if need be.

Now the question, how much is it going to cost to have a tap off my underground propane tank?

[LittleLebowski]

The dual fuel is $388 at Home Depot, so maybe if you get a coupon or are military with 10% off it's a better deal.


Yes, Home Depot is really good about the military discount, I know from experience (last chainsaw I bought).



I think dual fuel is my path, just not sure what I want to run on it. The fireplace can keep a small part of the house warm but not the bed rooms. We have space heaters and can all sleep in one room if need be.

Now the question, how much is it going to cost to have a tap off my underground propane tank?

No, on the space heaters. That is a horribly inefficient use of your fuel. You’re taking energy in the form of fuel, turning it into electricity, and then to heat using one of the most high-draw electrical devices around. You’d run out of fuel quickly.

Consider a clean kerosene fueled heater (https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Heat-Convection-Kerosene-DH2304/dp/B000ITQ5DY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1508719851&sr=8-3&keywords=kerosene+heater) or a propane space heater (https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F232000-Indoor-Safe-Portable/dp/B002G51BZU/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508719959&sr=1-4&keywords=propane+space+heater).

[LittleLebowski]

Added link to PF generator spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b43DcpnjDT6SvDrxoFlI_rT9mIsemsoM4YgA4LfRtgw/edit?usp=sharing) in OP.

Also, NewEgg is selling the Pulsar PG2000is (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?utm_source=MP102217&cm_mmc=EMC-MP102217-_-EMC-102217-Index-_-index-_-9SIA08C4FA5087&Item=9SIA08C4FA5087) (a Yamaha clone as detailed in our spreadsheet) for $369, but you can get an additional $25 off of a NewEgg purchase over $350 at RetailMeNot.com (https://www.retailmenot.com/view/newegg.com). This is a good deal.

[LittleLebowski]

"Honda generator" (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Honda-Japan-EU30i-EU20i-Portable-Pure_60645210741.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.18 .4abdeda7rKvdEG&s=p) at Alibaba :D

[LittleLebowski]

I honestly wish I'd seen this before ordering my HF 3500w inverter genny, which is on backorder. Maybe if these get back in stock, I'll cancel the HF order and get one of these instead.

Just came close to doing just this, but the wife needs a push button start, sticking with the HF 3500w.

[MSparks909]

Timely thread. I've been looking into a home backup option for my modest sized ranch. No sump or well pump, but all appliances are electric so there's a fairly decent electrical demand at my house. Power outages are fairly infrequent, so I think a complete home backup system is un-necessary. If we have a good hurricane, which is once every 2-3 years, we might lose power for 4-5 days on the high end...a week or more is like once every ~10 years or so.

I thought about going the dual fuel route, but given how infrequently I will actually *need* a generator for home backup, gasoline fits my requirements just fine. I'm also planning on buying a 30-34' travel trailer in the next year or two, so I'll need a generator for that regardless. After a lot of research I *think* I'm gonna pull the plug on 2 Honda EU2000i gennies in the next few months. They will run everything in my house except for my dryer and hot water heater...not a huge deal because my mom's house has a full Generac backup and she lives ~3 minutes away so hot showers won't be a problem.

I like Honda for several reasons:
Aftermarket and spare parts market is huge. These have a cult following. But the biggest reason is they use a diaphragm fuel pump, so I will be able to add an external fuel tank for extended run times. Will probably add a 6-10 gallon marine tank and fuel cap setup for each. That should get me through 2-4 days before having to think about refueling. I'm gonna have an electrician wire in a transfer switch so I can safely wire into the house.

With that said, something like this is still in the back of my mind:
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/generators/portable-generators/q6500-quietpower-series-inverter-generator.html

Benefits with choosing the above generator vs. the twin Hondas is I could power my hot water heater and my dryer (not at the same time obviously) if necessary. Each draws about 4,500W so that's a pretty stout load and the Q6500 is rated at 5,000W continuous so that's almost a max load.

Is it worth a little bit of convenience to run those two home appliances while I'll be giving up portability, etc.? Also unsure if I can gravity feed fuel into it like I can with the Honda's. That's a big selling point because I don't want to have to top off the tank every 8-10 hours.

No real rush to decide. The Q6500 is obviously a better choice than the twin Hondas for pure home backup. The plan to buy a travel trailer sort of throws a wrench into that though. I'd much rather lug two of those Honda's around than the Briggs but if I end up buying a trailer with twin ACs I'll need something like the Q6500 anyways.

[MSparks909]

Timely thread. I've been looking into a home backup option for my modest sized ranch. No sump or well pump, but all appliances are electric so there's a fairly decent electrical demand at my house. Power outages are fairly infrequent, so I think a complete home backup system is un-necessary. If we have a good hurricane, which is once every 2-3 years, we might lose power for 4-5 days on the high end...a week or more is like once every ~10 years or so.

I thought about going the dual fuel route, but given how infrequently I will actually *need* a generator for home backup, gasoline fits my requirements just fine. I'm also planning on buying a 30-34' travel trailer in the next year or two, so I'll need a generator for that regardless. After a lot of research I *think* I'm gonna pull the plug on 2 Honda EU2000i gennies in the next few months. They will run everything in my house except for my dryer and hot water heater...not a huge deal because my mom's house has a full Generac backup and she lives ~3 minutes away so hot showers won't be a problem.

I like Honda for several reasons:
Aftermarket and spare parts market is huge. These have a cult following. But the biggest reason is they use a diaphragm fuel pump, so I will be able to add an external fuel tank for extended run times. Will probably add a 6-10 gallon marine tank and fuel cap setup for each. That should get me through 2-4 days before having to think about refueling. I'm gonna have an electrician wire in a transfer switch so I can safely wire into the house.

With that said, something like this is still in the back of my mind:
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/generators/portable-generators/q6500-quietpower-series-inverter-generator.html

Benefits with choosing the above generator vs. the twin Hondas is I could power my hot water heater and my dryer (not at the same time obviously) if necessary. Each draws about 4,500W so that's a pretty stout load and the Q6500 is rated at 5,000W continuous so that's almost a max load.

Is it worth a little bit of convenience to run those two home appliances while I'll be giving up portability, etc.? Also unsure if I can gravity feed fuel into it like I can with the Honda's. That's a big selling point because I don't want to have to top off the tank every 8-10 hours.

No real rush to decide. The Q6500 is obviously a better choice than the twin Hondas for pure home backup. The plan to buy a travel trailer sort of throws a wrench into that though. I'd much rather lug two of those Honda's around than the Briggs but if I end up buying a trailer with twin ACs I'll need something like the Q6500 anyways.

Well, might have answered my own question regarding the Q6500. Apparently when using a RV 30A plug, it will only provide half the rated wattage (2,500W) through the 30A plug. It supplies the rest through the remaining 120V plugs. A number of reviewers on Amazon were disappointed to find out it wouldn't run their RV's AC unit. Since whatever I buy will pull double duty as home backup and (future) RV power, I'll likely go with the Honda's.

[LittleLebowski]

Timely thread. I've been looking into a home backup option for my modest sized ranch. No sump or well pump, but all appliances are electric so there's a fairly decent electrical demand at my house. Power outages are fairly infrequent, so I think a complete home backup system is un-necessary. If we have a good hurricane, which is once every 2-3 years, we might lose power for 4-5 days on the high end...a week or more is like once every ~10 years or so.

I thought about going the dual fuel route, but given how infrequently I will actually *need* a generator for home backup, gasoline fits my requirements just fine. I'm also planning on buying a 30-34' travel trailer in the next year or two, so I'll need a generator for that regardless. After a lot of research I *think* I'm gonna pull the plug on 2 Honda EU2000i gennies in the next few months. They will run everything in my house except for my dryer and hot water heater...not a huge deal because my mom's house has a full Generac backup and she lives ~3 minutes away so hot showers won't be a problem.

I like Honda for several reasons:
Aftermarket and spare parts market is huge. These have a cult following. But the biggest reason is they use a diaphragm fuel pump, so I will be able to add an external fuel tank for extended run times. Will probably add a 6-10 gallon marine tank and fuel cap setup for each. That should get me through 2-4 days before having to think about refueling. I'm gonna have an electrician wire in a transfer switch so I can safely wire into the house.

With that said, something like this is still in the back of my mind:
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/generators/portable-generators/q6500-quietpower-series-inverter-generator.html

Benefits with choosing the above generator vs. the twin Hondas is I could power my hot water heater and my dryer (not at the same time obviously) if necessary. Each draws about 4,500W so that's a pretty stout load and the Q6500 is rated at 5,000W continuous so that's almost a max load.

Is it worth a little bit of convenience to run those two home appliances while I'll be giving up portability, etc.? Also unsure if I can gravity feed fuel into it like I can with the Honda's. That's a big selling point because I don't want to have to top off the tank every 8-10 hours.

No real rush to decide. The Q6500 is obviously a better choice than the twin Hondas for pure home backup. The plan to buy a travel trailer sort of throws a wrench into that though. I'd much rather lug two of those Honda's around than the Briggs but if I end up buying a trailer with twin ACs I'll need something like the Q6500 anyways.

So, the Honda EU2000i is $900 per. So, roughly $2000 or so out the door. That gets you about 3200w (running, 4000w surge). The B&S Q6500 is $1500 and gives you 5000w running, 6000w surge.

For about $1400 you can get two HF 3500w inverter gennys (https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html) with parallel cable kit. Add $100 per, $200 total to get the no questions asked warranty. Then check with this eBay seller to see if this dual fuel line kit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PREDATOR-II-2000-WATT-INVERTER-GENERATOR-DUAL-FEED-SINGLE-PUMP-FUEL-LINE-SYSTEM-/112472407346?hash=item1a2fe0bd32:g:2x8AAOSwstJZXuO d) will work with the HF 3500w. If not, I would bet money that he will make one that does. Following this plan gives you 6000w running and 7000w surge for about $1800, along with flexibility to split up the gennys.

[LittleLebowski]

Well, might have answered my own question regarding the Q6500. Apparently when using a RV 30A plug, it will only provide half the rated wattage (2,500W) through the 30A plug. It supplies the rest through the remaining 120V plugs. A number of reviewers on Amazon were disappointed to find out it wouldn't run their RV's AC unit. Since whatever I buy will pull double duty as home backup and (future) RV power, I'll likely go with the Honda's.

Yeah, that's common. The split of the power output is called "legs".

[LittleLebowski]

Daily woot deal on generators is actually quite good (https://tools.woot.com/plus/generators-youve-got-the-power?ref=w_gh_tg_4_wp_1)

[LittleLebowski]

Daily woot deal on generators is actually quite good (https://tools.woot.com/plus/generators-youve-got-the-power?ref=w_gh_tg_4_wp_1)

https://tools.woot.com/offers/whisper-series-3000-3300-inverter-generator?ref=tg_cnt_wp_1_3

[LittleLebowski]

Well, I finally got my HF 3500w inverter genny. It is quiet. It’s on hour 2 of its 8 hour break in period and then I will change the oil.

I am very happy with this purchase so far.

[CSW]

We went big back in 2013 when we moved to NH, and purchased a whole house standby 13KV General Electric generator.
It was about 6 grand with the install, but is hooked up to my 375# propane tank and does an instant switch over.
We were just without power from Monday morning [03:20] until Tuesday around 18:00.
Ran like a charm, and actually this is the first time since the install that we had to rely upon the generator.
It excersizes weekly, and barely used any propane over those two days.

[Drang]

Every time I go into Costco I check out the generators, especially the Generac whole house backup units they have. Price, power output...

The first thing they had us doing when we got to Florida for Hurricane Irma was making status checks on nursing homes, it had become a political issue (as in "Congressional investigation") due to deaths at one facility. Most of them were fine. I mean, if the charge nurse can tell you how many gallons of fuel the backups have, they're obviously aware of it.
But one place... The manager came storming out berating us that it was a national disgrace that his facility had no power. The "POS" generator he rented after the storm hit was totally inadequate. Because he was trying to run a nursing home off a 1KW unit. He had evacuated his residents, and brought them back when his little camping generator was proven to provide lights... but apparently it never occurred to this jackwagon that A/C takes a little more juice than that. And it was Trump's fault. Or something. We made some calls and Florida Power & Light just happened to show up to restore power to the neighborhood while we were still there.
So did the North Miami PD, wondering what all the fuss was. So he lit into them. I thought they were going to taser the guy, so we left.

Anyway.
I have some links here for generators.
I make no guaranty as to their accuracy, or for the currency (pun NOT intended, for once!) of the info; I would actually appreciate any feedback those with more experience on the subject can provide:
Discussion: Home Generators Guide: Generators for Home Use (http://www.smps.us/home-generators.html) (This article was updated after Hurricane Irma.)
Discussion: Whole House Generator Buyer's Guide - How to Pick the Perfect Whole House Generator (https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/stories/38-How-to-Pick-the-Perfect-Whole-House-Generator.html)
Price list: Whole house generator | Hardware | Compare Prices at Nextag (https://www.nextag.com/shopping/products?nxtg=8efc0a1c051e-F7CE32693763FC89&search=whole+house+generator&page=0&nodeIds=2700408&psort=%2FHome-Improvement--zzwhole+house+generatorz2700408zB6z5---html%3Fnxtg%3D8efc0a1c051e-F7CE32693763FC89&zipcode=98032&notSubmit=Go)

[PT Doc]

$200 off

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Drang]

$200 off
Of...?

[PT Doc]

Sorry, I tried to post a link to a generator on sale on Amazon, but it was going to my Prime Account. I deleted the link and asked LL if he could delete the comment.

It's a Champion 3800W dual fuel electric start for $499.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Drang]

Sorry, I tried to post a link to a generator on sale on Amazon, but it was going to my Prime Account. I deleted the link and asked LL if he could delete the comment.

Amazon.com : Champion 3800-Watt Dual Fuel RV Ready Portable Generator with Electric Start : Garden & Outdoor (https://www.amazon.com/Champion-3800-Watt-Portable-Generator-Electric/dp/B00VFDJGCE/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509842248&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Champion+3800W+dual+fuel+electric+start+f or+%24499.)

[PT Doc]

I'm not sure what you issue you were having, but the link you originally posted (I can see your post edit history) was fine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VFDJGCE (http://amzn.to/2y3AcsR)

ETA: FWIW, it's not possible to post a link to something in your "Prime Account". Account info on Amazon, and pretty much all other websites, are handled by cookies and not URL parameters. :)Thanks. On the original link, there was a section showing where I had purchased the item on this date. If I clicked there, it took me into my Prime account. Wasn't sure if other people would also, hence the caution. Sorry for the hassle.

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[LittleLebowski]

I'm not sure what you issue you were having, but the link you originally posted (I can see your post edit history) was fine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VFDJGCE (http://amzn.to/2y3AcsR)

ETA: FWIW, it's not possible to post a link to something in your "Prime Account". Account info on Amazon, and pretty much all other websites, are handled by cookies and not URL parameters. :)

Not an inverter, but a very, very good deal from a good company.

[NEPAKevin]

Home Depot has Sportsman generators on their daily specials including a dual fuel inverter generator (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-2-200-Watt-Dual-Fuel-Powered-Inverter-Generator-for-Sensitive-Electronics-803044/303325924) for under five bills. Don't know anything about them other than it looks like most of the generic Chinese clones.

[tanner]

Ice storm in the Metro Detroit area. Power out since Sunday. Got marching orders from the wife to get the HF 3500w generator, got the second to last one in stock.

Had a few interesting hours trying to figure out how to wire up the furnace to accept an extension cord. YouTube to the rescue. Ended up wiring it like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-VibYwHSEU). Decent workaround so far. Hadn't thought it through to this point until I bought the generator, luckily it went pretty well.

The generator has run great so far. Can run fridge, furnace and sump pump no problemo. Have to unplug the fridge when the wife gets ready though, the hair dryer and flat iron draw quite a bit!

[LittleLebowski]

What I consider is the very best deal in small, portable generators right now; the Harbor Freight 3500w inverter is now $659 with this coupon. I recently used mine during a 36 hour windstorm and it was flawless and quiet, sipped fuel.

http://www.hfqpdb.com/coupons/1967_ITEM_3500_WATT_SUPER_QUIET_INVERTER_GENERATOR _1523023023.7984.jpg

[David S.]

Valid thru July 9. 2018.

Saved.

[LittleLebowski]

Valid thru July 9. 2018.

Saved.

Use the money saved to get the 2 year warranty.

[Trukinjp13]

What I consider is the very best deal in small, portable generators right now; the Harbor Freight 3500w inverter is now $659 with this coupon. I recently used mine during a 36 hour windstorm and it was flawless and quiet, sipped fuel.

http://www.hfqpdb.com/coupons/1967_ITEM_3500_WATT_SUPER_QUIET_INVERTER_GENERATOR _1523023023.7984.jpg

This would be a nice upgrade from mine. I just made a cord up and backfeed it from my garage to the house. Turn off the main breaker and I usually shut off the well pump. Then I have furnace and fridge at least. Really need to get the transfer switch wired in lol. HF has a 8750 that I have been drooling over. But that 3500 would go good on camping trips.


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[hufnagel]

8750 is on sale for $519.99 right now too. cheapest I've ever seen is it $499.99, so that's a pretty decent deal on it.

[whomever]

Had a few interesting hours trying to figure out how to wire up the furnace to accept an extension cord. YouTube to the rescue. Ended up wiring it like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-VibYwHSEU). Decent workaround so far.

A couple of comments on that video, and wiring plugs to furnaces, in no particular order:

1)The cable clamps that are clamping the short plug/receptacle cords to the metal box are for clamping Romex, not flexible cords. They make special ones for flex cords. I dunno what the safety implications are, if any, but that wouldn't pass inspection.
2)I generally just terminate the furnace branch circuit in a normally wired receptacle, and then change the furnace to a corded connection like any other corded device. That means you don't have to wonder about how the connections are wired inside the box.
3)Speaking of inspections, someone pointed out to me a couple of years ago that they changed the NEC to prohibit corded attachments of furnaces at all. I haven't found anyone who has an explanation of why they made that change.

Of note, I have had inspectors approve my converting to cord attachment, even after that change. That makes it legal, i.e. the inspector can decide to authorize things the code doesn't allow. I didn't know about the code prohibition at the time, so I didn't ask the inspector if he was waiving the code deliberately, or just hadn't heard of the change.

[tanner]

A couple of comments on that video, and wiring plugs to furnaces, in no particular order:

1)The cable clamps that are clamping the short plug/receptacle cords to the metal box are for clamping Romex, not flexible cords. They make special ones for flex cords. I dunno what the safety implications are, if any, but that wouldn't pass inspection.
2)I generally just terminate the furnace branch circuit in a normally wired receptacle, and then change the furnace to a corded connection like any other corded device. That means you don't have to wonder about how the connections are wired inside the box.
3)Speaking of inspections, someone pointed out to me a couple of years ago that they changed the NEC to prohibit corded attachments of furnaces at all. I haven't found anyone who has an explanation of why they made that change.

Of note, I have had inspectors approve my converting to cord attachment, even after that change. That makes it legal, i.e. the inspector can decide to authorize things the code doesn't allow. I didn't know about the code prohibition at the time, so I didn't ask the inspector if he was waiving the code deliberately, or just hadn't heard of the change.

Everything I learned about being an electrician, I learned from YouTube. So maybe I should have put INAE after it? :cool:

I'm 100% sure that I have zero knowledge about electrical codes. The workaround, however, worked.

It would take me maybe 10 minutes to wire it back up to the original switch, which is probably what I will do whenever I decide to move.

[tanner]

What I consider is the very best deal in small, portable generators right now; the Harbor Freight 3500w inverter is now $659 with this coupon. I recently used mine during a 36 hour windstorm and it was flawless and quiet, sipped fuel.

http://www.hfqpdb.com/coupons/1967_ITEM_3500_WATT_SUPER_QUIET_INVERTER_GENERATOR _1523023023.7984.jpg

I just saw this now.... Where were you a few days earlier buddy?? lol. I'll try to see if I can bring the receipt in and get the deal.

[LittleLebowski]

I just saw this now.... Where were you a few days earlier buddy?? lol. I'll try to see if I can bring the receipt in and get the deal.

I'd be surprised if HF didn't hook you up.

[Drang]

What I consider is the very best deal in small, portable generators right now; the Harbor Freight 3500w inverter is now $659 with this coupon. I recently used mine during a 36 hour windstorm and it was flawless and quiet, sipped fuel.

25729

[Drang]

Hmmm, the China Freight flyer we have, and the China Freight web site, say $699.99 with the coupon...

[rayrevolver]

There is a new Wen 3100 inverter, which is orange. The older model is yellow. At Home Depot for $650.

http://www.wenproducts.com/store/generators/Super-Quiet-3100-Watt-RV-Ready-Portable-Inverter-Generator-CARB-Compliant

I suppose in Pro column is a 2 year warranty. Wen is relatively new to me but I guess has been around since the 1950s. We are planning some travel trailer action this summer and need a bigger generator to run the A/C. Some folks buy soft start kits and claim a 2000w will start their A/C units. At this point a bigger generator is probably the right path and the HF Predator 3500w is at the top of my list. Looking at the Champions 3100/3400 maybe dual fuel. This new Wen might be a player as well.

[hufnagel]

tanner et.al.: https://www.interlockkit.com/

[Drang]

There is a new Wen 3100 inverter, which is orange. The older model is yellow. At Home Depot for $650.

http://www.wenproducts.com/store/generators/Super-Quiet-3100-Watt-RV-Ready-Portable-Inverter-Generator-CARB-Compliant

Looked good until I saw that it is a pull-to-start. With my shoulders that's iffy, and the wife is even less likely to get it to go.

EDIT: #OldMan (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=OldMan)

[rayrevolver]

Looked good until I saw that it is a pull-to-start. With my shoulders that's iffy, and the wife is even less likely to get it to go.

EDIT: #OldMan (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=OldMan)

Good point. I'll probably toss my back out unloading the damn thing, won't be able to rip start it. Die in the woods. Seen it a hundred times! :cool:

Funny that this green beast just showed up in the comparison:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079FYQTBP/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?psc=1

First blush, its awesome. Has electric start but the real plus is a 4 gallon gas tank. Going to find out more info but it seems to check all the boxes for camping and light use for home emergencies.

[Drang]

Here's a question: Is there an advantage to a portable over a whole-home stand-by genset, with auto start?

We're talking ~$3200 and up (less installation) versus ~$700, for a unit that will power most or all the circuits in the house, tie in to the natural gas supply, and start itself when it detects a power outage.

[David S.]

Portability? Price?

For home use, it depends on what level of preparedness you want or can afford.

You may not be able to power the entire house at the same time with a portable generator, but depending on the situation,you may not need to. Refrigerators and freezers, don’t need continuous power. An hour or two a day should be sufficient if you aren’t opening and closing them a bunch. Climate control could be an issue, but what can you do with a portable gen and a wall mount unit in a single room?

Whole house generators would be nice, but they are a massive investment that serves a single purpose. It requires upkeep. Could you accomplish the same thing with a couple portable gens, your car+inverter, a battery bank, some elbow and a plan for a fraction of the price and space? The portable units can be used for camping, tailgating, outdoor parties, or lent to your friend if he’s affected and you’re not.

[Drang]

EDIT TO ADD preface: Price and portability are the only advantages that I can see; if we had an RV I don't know that there would be a question. (Or, the question might be "One or two, assuming there is a parallel kit available.")

The full scenario goes like this:
I am at work or otherwise unavailable, the power goes out, and the wife has to lug the portable genset out of the garage, plug it in, start it, and flip the transfer switch. Probably in the dark, in the rain.

Versus

I am ditto, the power goes out, and the lights dim and come back to full brightness, and the wife has missed a commercial while the TV recovers.

[David S.]

Convenience is expensive.

[NEPAKevin]

I thought I posted this the other day but must have gotten distracted. There are smaller standby generators (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WNGL3IW/ref=asc_df_B00WNGL3IW5454668/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B00WNGL3IW&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198107824285&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8638299700840389939&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006892&hvtargid=pla-348971291266) with automatic transfer and start up as low as $2K plus installation. Pretty much the same capabilities of like sized portable, i.e. limited number of circuits can be powered at one time, with the convenience of automatic start-up and shut down. LPG and natural gas are less fuel efficient than gasoline or diesel but OTOH are very stable. Some of the ones I was looking at by Kohler have the ability to direct available power where needed but are larger and more expensive (closer to $4K). FWIW, we got a whole house unit and kept the portables as a back-up/supplemental system.
ETA: Full disclosure. I don't know if this is the best time to get a whole house generator as the one we got puked its engine after its maiden voyage of a hundred hours last winter and now has a new engine back ordered. I wonder if there was such a demand for them after all the hurricanes last year that QC was sacrificed for production to keep up with demand.

[hufnagel]

I chose to go the "portable" route vs. the "permanent" one due to various factors:
Up front cost is higher for the permanent, and the permitting process with my town is a nightmare.
I can upgrade size/capacity later on easily.
I'm not beholden to a specific manufacturer/dealer for parts/service.
If the generator fails catastrophically I can just get another (cheaply, hopefully), plug it in and soldier on.
I'm a handy kind of fellow so "rolling my own" was definitely in the cards.
I have no "critical" power needs really.

It all comes down to how you balance out the equation that includes the terms of ease, convenience, expense, reliability, security, critical needs, Wife Acceptance Factor, and probably some others I'm not thinking of.

There's no one right answer, and thankfully we have products that span the entire range. 'MURICA! :D

[David S.]

I see a lot of merit in a whole house generator. If money was no object I'd have one, but what's the opportunity cost? Because there's so many cheaper, more versatile options for emergency power, for me they're really a last order item. I personally wouldn't invest in one until I had all the rest of my preps squared away. I'm not saying whole house generators are wrong. I just have a different perspective of what's right for me right now.

I know very little about any of this stuff, but it's my understanding that the US electrical grid is far more vulnerable than the natural gas system. A tree taking out your power line is far more likely than a ruptured gas line. In many cases, where the electrical grid goes down (locally or regionally) due to natural disasters, etc., natural gas continues to run. It seems reasonable to me that if your home is already set up for natural gas, then it's probably worth using it to run your whole house generator instead of diesel. That way you don't have to maintain a supply of a fuel that you otherwise wouldn't use.

[rayrevolver]

A compromise would be a portable with a remote control start, housed in an old dog house, and plugged in. And then a manual switch on your breaker panel.

The power goes out, you hit the remote start, walk to the panel for the switch.

I have none of this setup yet. Earlier in this thread I talked about dual fuel generators because I have an underground propane tank. One plan was to add a propane connection to run a portable.

We lost power a few months ago. I used the generator for the fridge and fire place to keep warmish. It was NOT a good long term solution especially in the dead of winter. The travel trailer might be the short term solution for keeping people warm.

[hufnagel]

http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Universal-Transfer-Switch-10-Circuit-120-240V/P-UTS10BI

If you can find one, and you can figure out how to make it command start your generator, you can roll your own on-demand setup for at least part of your house. That's my current plan. I'll still have the on panel interlock kit so I can bring the whole panel up manually of I need/want to.

[David S.]

Costco: I-Power 1600W/2000w inverter generator (https://www.costco.com/A-IPower-1600W-Running--2000W-Peak-Yamaha-Powered-Gas-Inverter-Generator.product.100343958.html) for $499. Yamaha powered. Integrated paralleling.

[NEPAKevin]

There is a new Wen 3100 inverter, which is orange. The older model is yellow. At Home Depot for $650.

http://www.wenproducts.com/store/generators/Super-Quiet-3100-Watt-RV-Ready-Portable-Inverter-Generator-CARB-Compliant

I suppose in Pro column is a 2 year warranty. Wen is relatively new to me but I guess has been around since the 1950s. We are planning some travel trailer action this summer and need a bigger generator to run the A/C. Some folks buy soft start kits and claim a 2000w will start their A/C units. At this point a bigger generator is probably the right path and the HF Predator 3500w is at the top of my list. Looking at the Champions 3100/3400 maybe dual fuel. This new Wen might be a player as well.


Home Depot has Wen 3100 inverter generator (https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-Super-Quiet-3100-Watt-RV-Ready-Gas-Powered-Portable-Inverter-Generator-CARB-Compliant-56310i-RV/304804980) on their daily deals today for $499.

[rayrevolver]

Thanks for the heads up. HF Predator 3500 is $699 for mother's day.

I think I am sold on the Green Power 3500. 4 gallons of gas, 13hrs on 70% load means it can probably run my camper a/c enough for a whole weekend on 1 tank of gas.

[LittleLebowski]

I am experiencing a power outage right now; a very sudden storm with 70MPH winds hit my AO and knocked out the power about five hours ago. It is somewhat warm and very humid here; therefore I am using my Harbor Freight 3500w inverter genny to power my fridge, a lamp, a couple of chargers, and a window mounted AC. These devices are pulling 1.9 amps from my generator. The generator started instantly (push button, battery powered starter), and is running quietly, doing work.

Folks, this generator is THE one to get.

[hufnagel]

I just wish they'd come out with a 240V inverter generator with electric start. I found a briggs and Stratton in 5000/6500 config for $1419 shipped, but it's pull start only.

[David S.]

I just wish they'd come out with a 240V inverter generator with electric start. I found a briggs and Stratton in 5000/6500 config for $1419 shipped, but it's pull start only.

Two of LL’s harbor freight inv gens and parallel cables can be had for about $1400 total and give 240v. You can do the same with the smaller units too.

[hufnagel]

Two of LL’s harbor freight inv gens and parallel cables can be had for about $1400 total and give 240v. You can do the same with the smaller units too.

ummm... the parallel cables don't make 240V, they just double the current at 110v.

[Grey]

I am experiencing a power outage right now; a very sudden storm with 70MPH winds hit my AO and knocked out the power about five hours ago. It is somewhat warm and very humid here; therefore I am using my Harbor Freight 3500w inverter genny to power my fridge, a lamp, a couple of chargers, and a window mounted AC. These devices are pulling 1.9 amps from my generator. The generator started instantly (push button, battery powered starter), and is running quietly, doing work.

Folks, this generator is THE one to get.Instantly thought of this thread last night when that storm blew through. Really tempted to pick one up. Thankfully i didnt lose power.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[David S.]

ummm... the parallel cables don't make 240V, they just double the current at 110v.

Ah Poop. You’re right and I’m dumb.

[NEPAKevin]

I just wish they'd come out with a 240V inverter generator with electric start. I found a briggs and Stratton in 5000/6500 config for $1419 shipped, but it's pull start only.

Good news: Honda Power Equipment EU7000IAT1 (https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Equipment-EU7000IAT1-Portable-Generator/dp/B017O6CKUK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1526409846&sr=8-3&keywords=honda+eu7000is)

Bad News: Price: $4,988.95 & FREE Shipping

[tanner]

FWIW, I printed up LL's coupon for $659 and they gave me that price adjustment. That coupon works!

[LittleLebowski]

FWIW, I printed up LL's coupon for $659 and they gave me that price adjustment. That coupon works!

You’re going to love that genny, congrats.

[hufnagel]

Ah Poop. You’re right and I’m dumb.

Is ok. common mistake. now if they DID do that, that would rule.

[tanner]

You’re going to love that genny, congrats.

Got us through one power outage already. Startup was a breeze.

Oil change done, fuel stabilized, and it is ready to go for the next one.

[David S.]

One day only!!!Home Depot: Sportsman 1000 watt inverter generator for $159 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-1-000-800-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-802085/300792167)

[scw2]

One day only!!!Home Depot: Sportsman 1000 watt inverter generator for $159 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-1-000-800-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-802085/300792167)

Been putting this topic on backburner, so missing the knowledge from prior few pages of posts... If one were starting out and wanted to get a generator, would this be a good place to start for a SFH? I saw prior posts mentioned generators that seemed to have much higher outputs. I imagine most of the usage would be from minor storms or possibly something like a hurricane, though we're on the eastern seaboard and not in FL, so the frequency would be much lower.

[David S.]

This would be a good start. 800 watt continuous would run a refrigerator or freezer. It won’t run a microwave. It would run a lot of light bulbs but not your AC. It’s light weight so it would work great for tailgating or camping. It’d be the j-frame of the inverter generator world. For reference, a standard household circuit is rated at 1500-2400 Watts

This checks some boxes, and for the price, is hard to pass up. Supplement with a 1600W inverter connected to your car, and maybe a
battery bank, you could power quite a bit. You HVAC will need something more substantial. Surf Steven Harris’ site (http://www.steven1234.com)for good info on backup power.

[NEPAKevin]

I know a guy who has several of these small inverter generators and uses them for when the power first goes out to keep his fridges and electronics up. He likes them because they use very little gas, are as easy to start and only require running a couple of regular extension cords. He told me he only breaks out the big genny when there is a long term outage and they need to run the water pump, A/C or heat but still use the inverters for the electronics. The little ones are also good for camping, etc. as they are light weight, quiet and don't require a lot of fuel.

[NEPAKevin]

With the talk of Hurricane season, I decided to stop procrastinating and do some maintenance on the first generator I bought fifteen plus years ago that probably has not been run for two or three years. I had been adding Startron fuel stabilizer/ethanol treatment every six months so the gas didn't smell like varnish, but I siphoned out most of it anyway. Someone, maybe LL?' recommended PRI-G for old fuel, so I put some of that in the tank. Started on the first pull. Changed the oil over to synthetic and aired up the tires. Hoping this will be good mojo so we will not need it.

[LittleLebowski]

Good deal on a smaller inverter generator, Yamaha clone. $250, amazon prime shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G5XXD1S/

[David S.]

Steven Harris just posted on his FB feed that the Champion 2000W Inverter Generator is on sale at Home Depot for $400 ($200 off) (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champion-Power-Equipment-2-000-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Inverter-Generator-100565/306113176).

FWIW, this is Steven's favorite bargain brand inverter generator, and favorite behind Honda (and Yamaha, IIRC.)

[LittleLebowski]

Steven Harris just posted on his FB feed that the Champion 2000W Inverter Generator is on sale at Home Depot for $400 ($200 off) (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champion-Power-Equipment-2-000-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Inverter-Generator-100565/306113176).

FWIW, this is Steven's favorite bargain brand inverter generator, and favorite behind Honda (and Yamaha, IIRC.)

Pretty good deal, I’d jump on that if I needed a smaller inverter genny. No idea who Steven Harris is.

[David S.]

Pretty good deal, I’d jump on that if I needed a smaller inverter genny. No idea who Steven Harris is.

Steven (http://www.steven1234.com) is an electricity nerd/SME in a particular “survivalist” community.

[Grey]

Looking at a house tie in generator to run the ac, fridge and freezer, anything else is just a bonus. Looking at probably a 48 to 72 hour outage tops.

I would assume I need an electrician to wire up a new panel for these specific items.

I do have a NG line that I could tap into to run my unit.

Any recommendations on if I should get a generator that I haul out for the occasional outage or if the cost is worth getting a permanent unit with an auto switch? Pretty noob in this area so any insight is useful.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Drang]

Admitting that I have no experience with these, I would say it would depend on how frequent and prolonged power outages are in your area.

[Cookie Monster]

Looking at a house tie in generator to run the ac, fridge and freezer, anything else is just a bonus. Looking at probably a 48 to 72 hour outage tops.

I would assume I need an electrician to wire up a new panel for these specific items.

I do have a NG line that I could tap into to run my unit.

Any recommendations on if I should get a generator that I haul out for the occasional outage or if the cost is worth getting a permanent unit with an auto switch? Pretty noob in this area so any insight is useful.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


A couple of years ago, I got a bid on one - 6 to 8k in my area to run off my existing propane tank. You’ll need some wattage to run the AC.

Honda inverter with some extension cords and gas can would be in the $1500 range.

Probably just depends on how deep you want to go.

[blues]

I have a 500 gallon in ground propane tank. That would be the optimal choice, all other things being equal...which they don't seem to be. I need to explore one as we have outages more often than I like around these parts. Lots of national and state forests hereabouts. Downed lines are a thing.

[NEPAKevin]

Looking at a house tie in generator to run the ac, fridge and freezer, anything else is just a bonus. Looking at probably a 48 to 72 hour outage tops.



FWIW, Amazon has a 2K inverter generator (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00SMNLF4M/ref=gbps_img_s-5_47a5_5092421c?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=0fd07728-a1d3-4935-914c-117c30ee47a5&pf_rd_s=slot-5&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=KBQW3WSZEQPG3YZD8YCW) on their daily deals today. Before getting a whole house set up, I used to use the Ryobi version of this and some good extension cords to keep the fridge, freezer, sump pump, TV and coal stove running. For longer outages I would switch two of them every twelve hours or so. As already mentioned, AC typically requires a more powerful generator, wattage depends on your unit, for start up unless the AC is modified with a hard start kit. Inverter generators are very fuel efficient and quiet. That said, a standby generator with an automatic transfer switch is more convenient

[Tensaw]

I have found a window unit paired with a portable generator to be a very workable, and relatively affordable solution to maintaining some semblance of comfort during power outages. The window unit is a bit of a pain to get installed, but it sure beats sitting around sweating.

[schüler]

Looking at a house tie in generator to run the ac, fridge and freezer, anything else is just a bonus. Looking at probably a 48 to 72 hour outage tops.
...

Does it need to run automatically in your absence because other family members cannot operate one (start, refuel, basic troubleshoot, don't run in areas where carbon monoxide would be a problem) or be without one on their own overnight? Sometimes there are critical items such as refrigerated medicines, mobility tools, CPAP, etc.

Make sure whatever generator you choose has stable- and clean-enough output for any critical equipment. A proprerly-sized portable inverter generator is a safe all-around bet for 95% of all home users.

If everyone in the family is youngerish and capable... a portable gasoline generator can be very handy on site and off site. Double check generator weight to make sure everyone can move one around/load into vehicle. They're a little more maintenance intensive than a permanent genset: A portable should be able to run about a solid week before the oil needs changing, well within your stated need. Gasoline fuel can be a concern, bulk storing (or you'll likely be competing with others for fuel), treating and emptying the generator's fuel system if the generator is stored a season without use. Using true/real gasoline helps a lot with season-long storage concerns. Most of the decent generators have a fuel cut off valve so you can do a half-arse storage prep job by simply running it dry after turning off the supply from the fuel tank.

You can buy portable generators modified to run on propane/natural gas. No worries about fuel left in the fuel system for long-term storage. Propane stores for decades - tank integrity is the only long term issue. Propane generator will deplete the oxygen in an enclosed area but does not have the same carbon monoxide risk as a gasolone genset. Propane will also burn much much cleaner - extending the life of the generator motor. You need to use the right type of propane tank as well - there's difference between propane gas and liquid propane gas tanks.

Natural gas- and propane-converted GASOLINE generators will de-rate (decrease) generator power output because propane/NG do not have the same amount of energy potential as gasoline/diesel. Off the top of my head is around 10% for propane, worse on natural gas. Turbochargers help with compensating output but I seriously doubt you'll see aone turbo in home use. :) Higher altitude also de-rates generators.

An automatic generator should self test periodically... low maintenance other than changing oil at recommended intervals and inspecting to make sure ants and rodents aren't making a home and wreaking havoc on the wiring. Serious issue for ALL equipment that sits for a while.

FYI there seem to be listings for DIY kits to enable propane and/or natural gas for a single gasoline Generac generator. A natural gas model would obviously be very convenient - the only caveats being storm damaged compression stations or rare outages. A standby propane tank would be excellent insurance if you're the belt 'n suspenders type. The LP/NG kits and retrofit are not too complicated to install and tune - but that may be like telling someone that's never changed a tire that it's no big deal to do so.

[Dog Guy]

Does it need to run automatically in your absence because other family members cannot operate one (start, refuel, basic troubleshoot, don't run in areas where carbon monoxide would be a problem) or be without one on their own overnight? Sometimes there are critical items such as refrigerated medicines, mobility tools, CPAP, etc.

Make sure whatever generator you choose has stable- and clean-enough output for any critical equipment. A proprerly-sized portable inverter generator is a safe all-around bet for 95% of all home users.

If everyone in the family is youngerish and capable... a portable gasoline generator can be very handy on site and off site. Double check generator weight to make sure everyone can move one around/load into vehicle. They're a little more maintenance intensive than a permanent genset: A portable should be able to run about a solid week before the oil needs changing, well within your stated need. Gasoline fuel can be a concern, bulk storing (or you'll likely be competing with others for fuel), treating and emptying the generator's fuel system if the generator is stored a season without use. Using true/real gasoline helps a lot with season-long storage concerns. Most of the decent generators have a fuel cut off valve so you can do a half-arse storage prep job by simply running it dry after turning off the supply from the fuel tank.

You can buy portable generators modified to run on propane/natural gas. No worries about fuel left in the fuel system for long-term storage. Propane stores for decades - tank integrity is the only long term issue. Propane generator will deplete the oxygen in an enclosed area but does not have the same carbon monoxide risk as a gasolone genset. Propane will also burn much much cleaner - extending the life of the generator motor. You need to use the right type of propane tank as well - there's difference between propane gas and liquid propane gas tanks.

Natural gas- and propane-converted GASOLINE generators will de-rate (decrease) generator power output because propane/NG do not have the same amount of energy potential as gasoline/diesel. Off the top of my head is around 10% for propane, worse on natural gas. Turbochargers help with compensating output but I seriously doubt you'll see aone turbo in home use. :) Higher altitude also de-rates generators.

An automatic generator should self test periodically... low maintenance other than changing oil at recommended intervals and inspecting to make sure ants and rodents aren't making a home and wreaking havoc on the wiring. Serious issue for ALL equipment that sits for a while.

FYI there seem to be listings for DIY kits to enable propane and/or natural gas for a single gasoline Generac generator. A natural gas model would obviously be very convenient - the only caveats being storm damaged compression stations or rare outages. A standby propane tank would be excellent insurance if you're the belt 'n suspenders type. The LP/NG kits and retrofit are not too complicated to install and tune - but that may be like telling someone that's never changed a tire that it's no big deal to do so.

Propane and gasoline both deplete oxygen if run in an enclosed space. Both also produce CO as a byproduct of combustion, as does natural gas. Propane motors are generally safer because the combustion efficiency is much better, but you should still be heads up for CO accumulation. If your generator is outside, then you don't need to worry.

[schüler]

Propane and gasoline both deplete oxygen if run in an enclosed space. Both also produce CO as a byproduct of combustion, as does natural gas. Propane motors are generally safer because the combustion efficiency is much better, but you should still be heads up for CO accumulation. If your generator is outside, then you don't need to worry.Agreed on both counts!

[Grey]

Does it need to run automatically in your absence because other family members cannot operate one (start, refuel, basic troubleshoot, don't run in areas where carbon monoxide would be a problem) or be without one on their own overnight? Sometimes there are critical items such as refrigerated medicines, mobility tools, CPAP, etc.

Make sure whatever generator you choose has stable- and clean-enough output for any critical equipment. A proprerly-sized portable inverter generator is a safe all-around bet for 95% of all home users.

If everyone in the family is youngerish and capable... a portable gasoline generator can be very handy on site and off site. Double check generator weight to make sure everyone can move one around/load into vehicle. They're a little more maintenance intensive than a permanent genset: A portable should be able to run about a solid week before the oil needs changing, well within your stated need. Gasoline fuel can be a concern, bulk storing (or you'll likely be competing with others for fuel), treating and emptying the generator's fuel system if the generator is stored a season without use. Using true/real gasoline helps a lot with season-long storage concerns. Most of the decent generators have a fuel cut off valve so you can do a half-arse storage prep job by simply running it dry after turning off the supply from the fuel tank.

You can buy portable generators modified to run on propane/natural gas. No worries about fuel left in the fuel system for long-term storage. Propane stores for decades - tank integrity is the only long term issue. Propane generator will deplete the oxygen in an enclosed area but does not have the same carbon monoxide risk as a gasolone genset. Propane will also burn much much cleaner - extending the life of the generator motor. You need to use the right type of propane tank as well - there's difference between propane gas and liquid propane gas tanks.

Natural gas- and propane-converted GASOLINE generators will de-rate (decrease) generator power output because propane/NG do not have the same amount of energy potential as gasoline/diesel. Off the top of my head is around 10% for propane, worse on natural gas. Turbochargers help with compensating output but I seriously doubt you'll see aone turbo in home use. :) Higher altitude also de-rates generators.

An automatic generator should self test periodically... low maintenance other than changing oil at recommended intervals and inspecting to make sure ants and rodents aren't making a home and wreaking havoc on the wiring. Serious issue for ALL equipment that sits for a while.

FYI there seem to be listings for DIY kits to enable propane and/or natural gas for a single gasoline Generac generator. A natural gas model would obviously be very convenient - the only caveats being storm damaged compression stations or rare outages. A standby propane tank would be excellent insurance if you're the belt 'n suspenders type. The LP/NG kits and retrofit are not too complicated to install and tune - but that may be like telling someone that's never changed a tire that it's no big deal to do so.So how do I calculate my needs for start up and load. Is there a basic estimate sheet that can ball park my needs? Sounds like what I need is a transfer switch and plug in manualltly.

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[rayrevolver]

So how do I calculate my needs for start up and load. Is there a basic estimate sheet that can ball park my needs? Sounds like what I need is a transfer switch and plug in manualltly.

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Here is a calculator:
https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/wattage-calculator

I had a small Honda clone ~2k watts that can easily run 1 refrigerator when we lost power. The new house was wired with a manual transfer switch and external plug. The only issue is that its rated for 7500 watts (Reliance Controls brand).

Decided to buy a dual-fuel Firman generator from Ebay, model was H08051. It was $824 shipped with a coupon. It does 8000 running watts on gas, 7250 watts on propane. I do have a 500 gallon tank in ground which does have a spot for me to plug in the generator. My next step is to get the propane people here to bless the setup so I could, if need be, connect to the rental propane tank.

I am still breaking in the generator for the first 5 hours before I start figuring out how to use the manual box and what is connected to the breaker panels etc. Its a mystery and the previous owner didn't leave me with much info. I should be able to run 1 or maybe both my heat pumps since they use propane for heat in the winter. I am less worried about a summer storm and needing A/C, although I am sure it can run 1 unit to cool.

Good luck!!! Having an automatic unit would be nice buts it big bucks. I just hope I am not on a trip when a storm hits. The Firman does have an electric start so I just need to write down the procedure and hopefully the wife can make it happen.

[mmc45414]

Was just reading this the other day and saw gas outages mentioned. Big storms here last night, and they are shutting gas off in some areas.

Storm damage: Vectren to shut down gas service to large areas

https://www.whio.com/news/breaking-news/storm-damage-vectren-shut-down-gas-service-large-areas/pcC7wh9ROZvltnVApW94BP/


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[hufnagel]

I'll reiterate what i've probably posted several times:
1) figure out what are "necessities" and what are "luxuries". (hint, 95% of your stuff, is the latter.)
2) you don't need as much generator as you think if you learn to plan what devices are running when.
3) have multiple fuel sources is almost a must
4) window A/C units are useful to have to cool a room or two if you really need to, in lieu of firing up central A/C.
5) whole-house tie-in can be as easy or as complex as you want. There are LEGAL panel backfeed kits out there (ex: interlockkit.com)

I still continue to power my entire house on a 5500W generator with pull start, running on gasoline, in the infrequent times we've needed it. I use an interlock kit and power inlet mounted outside to backfeed power into the panel, and only turn on things as I need them, when I need them. We've run every appliance in the house (dishwasher, microwave, washer, dryer, lights, fridges, computers, TVs, etc.) during the one 2 week outage we had, just not all of them at once. We were in an appliance "groove" within a couple days. It wasn't hot enough where we desperately needed A/C running, but i have 3 small window units in storage to use. If I needed to, I'd plug one in, and run it on full bore for a while to chill that room down for sleeping, and that's probably it. I also have a basement to "retreat" to if needed for some oppressive heat respite.

[Grey]

I'll reiterate what i've probably posted several times:
1) figure out what are "necessities" and what are "luxuries". (hint, 95% of your stuff, is the latter.)
2) you don't need as much generator as you think if you learn to plan what devices are running when.
3) have multiple fuel sources is almost a must
4) window A/C units are useful to have to cool a room or two if you really need to, in lieu of firing up central A/C.
5) whole-house tie-in can be as easy or as complex as you want. There are LEGAL panel backfeed kits out there (ex: interlockkit.com)

I still continue to power my entire house on a 5500W generator with pull start, running on gasoline, in the infrequent times we've needed it. I use an interlock kit and power inlet mounted outside to backfeed power into the panel, and only turn on things as I need them, when I need them. We've run every appliance in the house (dishwasher, microwave, washer, dryer, lights, fridges, computers, TVs, etc.) during the one 2 week outage we had, just not all of them at once. We were in an appliance "groove" within a couple days. It wasn't hot enough where we desperately needed A/C running, but i have 3 small window units in storage to use. If I needed to, I'd plug one in, and run it on full bore for a while to chill that room down for sleeping, and that's probably it. I also have a basement to "retreat" to if needed for some oppressive heat respite.Someone should make a writeup of all the collected wisdom in threads like this...

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[rob_s]

Am I seeing this right? If you want a Honda inverter it’s a 3000 (https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu3000is) or the next step up is a 7000 (https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is)?

[zuplex]

Am I seeing this right? If you want a Honda inverter it’s a 3000 (https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu3000is) or the next step up is a 7000 (https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is)?

Honda makes the EU1000 and EU2000 as well. 1000 watt and 2000 watt, respectively.

[LittleLebowski]

God, I wish that HF would hurry up and make a say, 6kw- 7kw inverter genny.

[rob_s]

Honda makes the EU1000 and EU2000 as well. 1000 watt and 2000 watt, respectively.

Yes, right, but what I specifically meant was that there wasn't anything between 3 and 7.

What I'm kind of wondering is if I shouldn't get two 3000w for the same price as one 7. We have a well so for us no power also means no water, and our giant RO plant can eat a lot of juice all on it's own (two pumps plus the RO system). So having one generator at the well and one for the house might be better than a single 7000 with cords everywhere.

ETA:
Hell, I'm thinking that two of the 3.5kw Predators (https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html) might be the way to go. Half the price, and I get the whole "two is one" thing going on as well.

ETA2:
or do I just go get Consumer Reports top pick for an old-faschioned generator that's 8kw for $1300
Generac 7162 8000 Watt Electronic Fuel Injection Portable Generator-EPA/CARB, Orange, Gray, Black
(https://www.amazon.com/Generac-7162-Electronic-Injection-Generator-EPA/dp/B000CHOUV6?SubscriptionId=AKIAIIWFEA2XIPSLBTOA&tag=consurepor04c-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000CHOUV6)

[LittleLebowski]

Yes, right, but what I specifically meant was that there wasn't anything between 3 and 7.

What I'm kind of wondering is if I shouldn't get two 3000w for the same price as one 7. We have a well so for us no power also means no water, and our giant RO plant can eat a lot of juice all on it's own (two pumps plus the RO system). So having one generator at the well and one for the house might be better than a single 7000 with cords everywhere.

ETA:
Hell, I'm thinking that two of the 3.5kw Predators might be the way to go. Half the price, and I get the whole "two is one" thing going on as well.

I've got the data tucked away somewhere on what you need to run two of the HF3500s in parallel, it's just a cable connecting the two. Remind me if I don't provide it soon.

[David S.]

I had a small Honda clone ~2k watts that can easily run 1 refrigerator when we lost power.

A refrigerator only needs to run for an hour or two per day to keep things cold, particularly if full and you don't open it often. You could also accomplish that by running your car with an inverter.

[NEPAKevin]

What I'm kind of wondering is if I shouldn't get two 3000w for the same price as one 7. We have a well so for us no power also means no water, and our giant RO plant can eat a lot of juice all on it's own (two pumps plus the RO system). So having one generator at the well and one for the house might be better than a single 7000 with cords everywhere.

ETA:
Hell, I'm thinking that two of the 3.5kw Predators (https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html) might be the way to go. Half the price, and I get the whole "two is one" thing going on as well.



FWIW, when our first transfer switch was installed, the well pump required 220/30 amp which the generators under 6.5K AFAIK do not have.

[rob_s]

FWIW, when our first transfer switch was installed, the well pump required 220/30 amp which the generators under 6.5K AFAIK do not have.

Ours is supposed to have 220v to one of the pumps, but it doesn't. 220v 30a is a LOT. That's equivalent to a 60a 110v outlet. The whole point, in our case, of having the house pump on 220 is so that it will draw less amps. It's currently a 20a 110v wiring which overloads the circuit, when what it needs is a 220V 15a dedicated and we'd never have any problems.

I also *should* be able to decide which pump I want to run. I could run just the well pump and first stage RO equipmeent to fill the tank, and then the house pump and second stage to go from the tank to the house.

Either way, it's a good thing to think about re: the generator sizing. Especially if I ever get around to what I really want which is a burried propane tank, a whole-house backup generator, and an automatic transfer switch.

[LittleLebowski]

Ours is supposed to have 220v to one of the pumps, but it doesn't. 220v 30a is a LOT. That's equivalent to a 60a 110v outlet. The whole point, in our case, of having the house pump on 220 is so that it will draw less amps. It's currently a 20a 110v wiring which overloads the circuit, when what it needs is a 220V 15a dedicated and we'd never have any problems.

I also *should* be able to decide which pump I want to run. I could run just the well pump and first stage RO equipmeent to fill the tank, and then the house pump and second stage to go from the tank to the house.

Either way, it's a good thing to think about re: the generator sizing. Especially if I ever get around to what I really want which is a burried propane tank, a whole-house backup generator, and an automatic transfer switch.

I’d probably consider a manual interlock and big (8k or more) traditional smoke and noise genny for your well pump/220 needs, and then an HF 3500w inverter for everything else. My HF 3500 can handle pretty much everything in my house except for 220 stuff.

[NEPAKevin]

Reliance Controls Corporation 20216A Pro/Tran 6-Circuit Indoor Transfer Switch (https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Corporation-20216A-6-Circuit-Generators/dp/B000HS2L1G/ref=gbps_img_s-5_4142_5c080b70?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=6b1e7ec1-30ad-4528-9438-214a6ced4142&pf_rd_s=slot-5&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=8E3GKFV5EPBZDDMEE4MY) for Generators Up to 5,000 Running Watts

I have the 7500W version of this switch with a hard wired outdoor power inlet for the generator connection.

[LittleLebowski]

Reliance Controls Corporation 20216A Pro/Tran 6-Circuit Indoor Transfer Switch (https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Corporation-20216A-6-Circuit-Generators/dp/B000HS2L1G/ref=gbps_img_s-5_4142_5c080b70?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=6b1e7ec1-30ad-4528-9438-214a6ced4142&pf_rd_s=slot-5&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=8E3GKFV5EPBZDDMEE4MY) for Generators Up to 5,000 Running Watts

I have the 7500W version of this switch with a hard wired outdoor power inlet for the generator connection.

Did you do the wiring yourself? Nice find!

[hufnagel]

This is as good a time as any to remind everyone to go test fire their generators, if you haven't already, and if you've "skipped" on doing maintenance recently or don't remember the last time it was done, to go do it now. We're getting into the silly season, and the rumors are it's going to be a total clown show.

[NEPAKevin]

Did you do the wiring yourself? Nice find!

Yes. Pretty straight forward as the the transfer switch is just a separate beaker panel that isolates the circuits that you want powered by the generator. The hardest part for me was having to figure out which circuits were which as they were not marked and then fixing all the F'ed up wiring, probably from the same douche who didn't mark the circuits. Another thing to install while you have the main off is a good voltage transient protector. I went with a SOLA model STV 100K-10S (https://www.newark.com/solahd/stv100k-10s/suppressors/dp/95B9582) (linked to Newark which had the best prices and availability when I was shopping) which while a little pricey has serviceable components.

[Sasage]

So the SO left the generator 4k Champion outside covered but in the elements since last year in SC.

Appears to be rusty, corroded and won't turn over with new gas.

Is it DOA or worth fixing?

[Drang]

This is as good a time as any to remind everyone to go test fire their generators, if you haven't already, and if you've "skipped" on doing maintenance recently or don't remember the last time it was done, to go do it now. We're getting into the silly season, and the rumors are it's going to be a total clown show.

Run it monthly. Under load.

[hufnagel]

So the SO left the generator 4k Champion outside covered but in the elements since last year in SC.

Appears to be rusty, corroded and won't turn over with new gas.

Is it DOA or worth fixing?

With some many things, it comes down to how handy you are, how willing are you to take on a project, and how much time/money are you willing to throw at it?
It could be as simple as a gummed up carb, to something far more interesting.

[rob_s]

So the SO left the generator 4k Champion outside covered but in the elements since last year in SC.

Appears to be rusty, corroded and won't turn over with new gas.

Is it DOA or worth fixing?

As someone who is in a similar boat (generator that won’t start, unsure why, in my case all seems fine so may just be bad gas), I arrived at buying new. I’m sure I could figure out how to fix the old one, or even find someone to do the work, but at the end of the day the commodity is time not money and the “cheapest” fix in terms of time is to just buy new.

The Consumer Reports best generator is at Costco for $1k so I’m planning on getting one in the next day or so.
https://www.costco.com/.product.1239461.html

[LittleLebowski]

So the SO left the generator 4k Champion outside covered but in the elements since last year in SC.

Appears to be rusty, corroded and won't turn over with new gas.

Is it DOA or worth fixing?


It’s fixable, probably. I’d hose out all contacts/wiring with WD40, drain the gas, clean/check/replace the sparkplug if needed, and try to start it with fresh gas. If none of that works, post the model number on here, I might be able to find you a brand new carb for cheap.

[rob_s]

Maybe we’ve discussed it but...

Was at a neighbor’s house for a bbq over the weekend and we were talking generators. He actually has an above ground propane tank and as such is considering a dual-fuel generator. I dismissed it for my needs since I don’t have a large tank at my house, but then came home and thought about the 4-5 tanks I have sitting outside my workshop for my grill, and got curious about maybe being able to use those if needed, in addition to normal gas.

So what’s the consensus on the multi fuel types? I’ve seen them that do gas/propane and (I think?) that do gas/propane/natural. I think I’d go with the former but thinking about possibly moving to an area with city gas has me also considering the latter.

[LittleLebowski]

Maybe we’ve discussed it but...

Was at a neighbor’s house for a bbq over the weekend and we were talking generators. He actually has an above ground propane tank and as such is considering a dual-fuel generator. I dismissed it for my needs since I don’t have a large tank at my house, but then came home and thought about the 4-5 tanks I have sitting outside my workshop for my grill, and got curious about maybe being able to use those if needed, in addition to normal gas.

So what’s the consensus on the multi fuel types? I’ve seen them that do gas/propane and (I think?) that do gas/propane/natural. I think I’d go with the former but thinking about possibly moving to an area with city gas has me also considering the latter.

In your environment, they're good. In cold environments, not so good.

[NEPAKevin]

Is it DOA or worth fixing?

To be sure, someone would have to trouble shoot it and determine the actual problem(s). Assuming from your description that you have already drained and replaced the gas, the first things I would check would be any passive issues(sometimes referred to as something stupid), i.e. fuel tank shut off, on/off switch turned off, low oil as some units have low oil switches, etc. After that, basics are fuel, air and spark.

ETA: this is not in any way intended from dissuading you from stimulating the economy should you be so inclined. (see also Occam's razor)

[rayrevolver]

I posted this earlier and it makes sense for me to have dual fuel:

Decided to buy a dual-fuel Firman generator from Ebay, model was H08051. It was $824 shipped with a coupon. It does 8000 running watts on gas, 7250 watts on propane. I do have a 500 gallon tank in ground which does have a spot for me to plug in the generator.

I still have not run it in propane yet. And still have not run the house on it. I might have an empty house this Friday, so might be a good time to disconnect from the grid and give it a go.

I have the manual Reliance setup by the previous owner. 7500watt max so it drove my generator size selection.

I still want a Predator 3.5k so I can bring it camping.

[Norville]

Probably not a bad idea to do the math on how much propane its going to cost to run your house "like normal" on that Kohler. A co-worker said his dad had a similar setup and lost power for a whole week. They used things in the house like normal but when the gas bill came it was an eye-opener and they pared down to essentials.


Yup, just because you “can” does not mean you should.


I just ran for 72 hours after serious thunderstorms took out power Friday night. Probably used 50-60 gallons of propane. Had AC on for the last day of the “heatwave”, but otherwise took it easy with one load of laundry and some light stove usage. I’m OK with that.

[LittleLebowski]

Relevant. #BTDT (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BTDT)

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28140-How-I-fixed-my-surging-Champion-generator

[Sasage]

Good buy?

3500 running 4375 peak

Champion

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CHAMPION-BLACK-OUT-GENERATOR/2339044.uts?slotId=0&irclickid=wkc3kOxE2zHx3TvShpzI4yHQUklQltUNTxeXR00&irgwc=1&WT.mc_id=ir10451&utm_source=Slickdeals_LLC&WT.tsrc=AFF&utm_medium=AFF&rid=10

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[Sasage]

Relevant. #BTDT (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BTDT)

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28140-How-I-fixed-my-surging-Champion-generatorStill liking that HF3500?

On sale for $699 again and hurricane season is coming.

Already have a Pulsar PG2000iS.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[hufnagel]

EFI powered generators?
While I'm not opposed, how does that affect the ability to run them on NG or propane?

[Sasage]

Also would you guys buy a generator with low hours say under 10 that was used?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[hufnagel]

depends on the price, really.
I'd want to see it run with a load on it before handing over cash. a couple space heaters plugged in is a good enough test.
I'd then plan on doing an immediate oil change at the very least.

[rob_s]

FWIW, I decided to go ahead and take advantage of the $100 discount on the Generac (https://www.costco.com/.product.1239461.html) through costco.com that expires tomorrow 8/4. I may yet still wind up with the Harbor Freight inverter as well, but with hurricane season upon us I didn't want to miss out on the discount.

Now to come up with the $50k for new windows so I don't have to run around the house with an impact driver, hammer drill, and cart full of plywood like some kind of day laborer every time the Atlantic sneezes at me...

[LittleLebowski]

Still liking that HF3500?

On sale for $699 again and hurricane season is coming.

Already have a Pulsar PG2000iS.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

I love it, I can’t recommend it enough. There’s no other locally supported (at your local HF store) generator Thor can compare.

[hufnagel]

HEAD'S UP!
https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/63584_W3.jpg
https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-Watt-Super-Quiet-Inverter-Generator-63584.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiOTc5NTYwMTMiLCJza3Ui OiI2MzU4NCIsImlzIjoiNjk3Ljk4IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0A ZCI6IjEyMTcyIn0%3D%0D%0A
$698 on sale (reg: $800)
Probably only good until close of biz Sunday.

[Grey]

Damn, I need to get on this, lost power 2x already this year.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[hufnagel]

I'm still a proponent of their 8750 generator.

[rob_s]

FWIW, I decided to go ahead and take advantage of the $100 discount on the Generac (https://www.costco.com/.product.1239461.html) through costco.com that expires tomorrow 8/4. I may yet still wind up with the Harbor Freight inverter as well, but with hurricane season upon us I didn't want to miss out on the discount.

Now to come up with the $50k for new windows so I don't have to run around the house with an impact driver, hammer drill, and cart full of plywood like some kind of day laborer every time the Atlantic sneezes at me...

Finally ran the new Generac over the weekend. electric start on a generator was new to me and pretty cool.

One potential point of concern for me in the future is that the gas is sucked up from the top of the tank and there's no drain plug, so from a seasonal-storage perspective I'm not sure how that'll work out.

[rob_s]

As good a place as any to ask this...

Gas storage? In the construction industry it’s metal cans only, but I’m open to plastic if it’s stable in a hot garage for storage. Found some round steel cans but they are expensive (may be what it is, and that’s ok) but seems to me that square would be easier to store. Links to specific products appreciated.

[LittleLebowski]

Finally ran the new Generac over the weekend. electric start on a generator was new to me and pretty cool.

One potential point of concern for me in the future is that the gas is sucked up from the top of the tank and there's no drain plug, so from a seasonal-storage perspective I'm not sure how that'll work out.

No fuel line that you can pull/unclamp?

[rob_s]

No fuel line that you can pull/unclamp?

From the top yes, but nothing comes out of the bottom. I’ll try to get some pictures later.

[hufnagel]

I use Obama cans, because vented ones are too expensive. If they're not stored in a semi-climate controlled space however, make sure to keep them full. I had one sitting outside, in the shade, that went from inside to outside and was half full, split a seam from vapor pressure build up. Always keep them out of direct sunlight as well.

[rob_s]

Well, feeling good about having gotten the generator, although without having had a chance yet to make preps for the back-feed or having an electrician install the transfer switch, I'm not sure what I'll get out of it.

But at least I have it!

and, I'm more inspired to get an electrician out to talk with them about getting that transfer switch installed.

[LittleLebowski]

Got fuel? How is your weather looking?

[PearTree]

What is the group think on this generator?
Westinghouse iGen4200 Hybrid Open Frame Inverter Generator - 3500 Rated Watts & 4200 Peak Watts - Gas Powered - RV Ready Outlet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYP21HW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_NUeADbHSHT5B2
Seems to be the cheapest inverter generator I have found.

[rob_s]

Got fuel? How is your weather looking?

Wife picked up bout 15 gallons, god bless her.

[StraitR]

Finally ran the new Generac over the weekend. electric start on a generator was new to me and pretty cool.

One potential point of concern for me in the future is that the gas is sucked up from the top of the tank and there's no drain plug, so from a seasonal-storage perspective I'm not sure how that'll work out.

I bought one of these generic siphons before Irma, and it works as intended to siphon out gas from my yard equipment and generators.

https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/ (https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/dp/B0181EDCZ6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=gas+siphon+hand+pump&pd_rd_r=eb78ea38-9ea8-4ef7-a578-03f0e7e73808&pd_rd_w=twyIV&pd_rd_wg=gqze7&pf_rd_p=67c9d84c-d98a-4415-a549-dd3360e9d207&pf_rd_r=56EQ3QBNYT9V2BFR1M06&qid=1567136224&s=gateway&sr=8-3)





As good a place as any to ask this...

Gas storage? In the construction industry it’s metal cans only, but I’m open to plastic if it’s stable in a hot garage for storage. Found some round steel cans but they are expensive (may be what it is, and that’s ok) but seems to me that square would be easier to store. Links to specific products appreciated.

I like the Eagle 5 gallon metal cans. Not super cheap, but not much more than the crappy plastic one's either.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Y75M/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Y75M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[rob_s]

I bought one of these generic siphons before Irma, and it works as intended to siphon out gas from my yard equipment and generators.

https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/ (https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/dp/B0181EDCZ6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=gas+siphon+hand+pump&pd_rd_r=eb78ea38-9ea8-4ef7-a578-03f0e7e73808&pd_rd_w=twyIV&pd_rd_wg=gqze7&pf_rd_p=67c9d84c-d98a-4415-a549-dd3360e9d207&pf_rd_r=56EQ3QBNYT9V2BFR1M06&qid=1567136224&s=gateway&sr=8-3)






I like the Eagle 5 gallon metal cans. Not super cheap, but not much more than the crappy plastic one's either.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Y75M/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Y75M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

thanks on both counts.

The cans you linked to are what I mostly see on jobsites, and the direction I'm leaning, but I'd sure love to find something that's got a more rectilinear form factor for more efficient storage.

ETA:
this is the way I'm leaning. I'm thinking 3-4 of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Wavian-USA-JC0020YVS-Authentic-System/dp/B007ZICYXQ

[rayrevolver]

Well, feeling good about having gotten the generator, although without having had a chance yet to make preps for the back-feed or having an electrician install the transfer switch, I'm not sure what I'll get out of it.

But at least I have it!

and, I'm more inspired to get an electrician out to talk with them about getting that transfer switch installed.

At least you can run a cord to your fridge for a few hours a day. Maybe since you are in FL you can buy a small room A/C to help you sleep at night.

...my house has a transfer switch that I still have yet to try. It was installed by the previous owner. I have no idea what circuits are powered or not. My plan, if we lose power, is to remove the Nests and then try to power the circuits one-by-one. And then install the upstairs Nest and see how much power that A/C unit pulls (summer). In the winter I will start with the downstairs Nest since that unit has a propane furnace.


What is the group think on this generator?
Westinghouse iGen4200 Hybrid Open Frame Inverter Generator - 3500 Rated Watts & 4200 Peak Watts - Gas Powered - RV Ready Outlet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYP21HW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_NUeADbHSHT5B2
Seems to be the cheapest inverter generator I have found.

Is this for your house? Specs look decent for an inverter but I am sure those are loud. It would suck at an RV park.

I have been running my 8000w once a month and its loud. I might slowly buy the Predator 3500w, and then another, to quietly power stuff down the road. A single 3500W Pred can also go camping with us.

In the past, my old Kipor has been used to run the refrigerator. It should power an oil filled heater if it came down to it as well.

[hufnagel]

rob_s
https://www.interlockkit.com/Default.asp

I know you can't get one done in time before Dorian comes knockin', but think about that for the future.

[rob_s]

so here's a funny for you...

We're leaving for the storm but I was hoping to take the generator. Goddamn thing is too heavy for wife and I to lift in/out of the truck, and I never did order those ramps I've been meaning to, so it's staying here and a friend will borrow it if he needs it.

FML

Knew I shoulda picked up that damn inverter from Harbor Freight!

[LittleLebowski]

so here's a funny for you...

We're leaving for the storm but I was hoping to take the generator. Goddamn thing is too heavy for wife and I to lift in/out of the truck, and I never did order those ramps I've been meaning to, so it's staying here and a friend will borrow it if he needs it.

FML

Knew I shoulda picked up that damn inverter from Harbor Freight!

Yeah, I can handle that inverter myself. Good luck man, keep us posted. Take care of your family.

[PearTree]

Is this for your house? Specs look decent for an inverter but I am sure those are loud. It would suck at an RV park.

I have been running my 8000w once a month and its loud. I might slowly buy the Predator 3500w, and then another, to quietly power stuff down the road. A single 3500W Pred can also go camping with us.

In the past, my old Kipor has been used to run the refrigerator. It should power an oil filled heater if it came down to it as well.

It’s for the house, I only need it for a fridge/freezer, stand alone freezer, and a 5k btu window unit. And of course phone chargers and what not.


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[LittleLebowski]

Oil change time.

41958

[StraitR]

Pic from early in the week, getting everything up and checked for Dorian.

Couldn't be happier with these two Honda EU2000i inverters. They've proven very reliable, and quite versatile with the parallel kit. One and only downside is that you have two generators to service, but I appreciate having the redundant backup. I rarely run two in parallel, as I don't try to power my house (fuel conservation) during outages, just keep the fridge running, some lights, and fans. Yamaha now makes similar models. Probably worth a look.

41960

[LittleLebowski]

Harbor Freight builds them well. Note the sound insulation.

41966

[LittleLebowski]

Briggs and Stratton just released a 6500w starting / 5000w steady, inverter generator! I’d prefer an HF Predator 7000watt or so inverter genny, but this looks really, really good.

https://amzn.to/2NNJnrO

[Malamute]

Pic from early in the week, getting everything up and checked for Dorian.

Couldn't be happier with these two Honda EU2000i inverters. They've proven very reliable, and quite versatile with the parallel kit. One and only downside is that you have two generators to service, but I appreciate having the redundant backup. I rarely run two in parallel, as I don't try to power my house (fuel conservation) during outages, just keep the fridge running, some lights, and fans. Yamaha now makes similar models. Probably worth a look.

41960

Can you run then on ECO mode for any of what you do?

I got one of the little Hondas to run a small window AC unit, it wouldnt kick the compressor over reliably on ECO mode, but ran fine once it was on. I got a hard start capacitor ($12) and it now kicks the compressor over easily on ECO mode, I get 6+ hrs out of a tank of fuel. Not sure on total time it will run, I dont have an hour meter and try not to let it run completely out.

http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/05/27/rv-air-conditioner-hard-start-capacitor

[hufnagel]

Briggs and Stratton just released a 6500w starting / 5000w steady, inverter generator! I’d prefer an HF Predator 7000watt or so inverter genny, but this looks really, really good.

https://amzn.to/2NNJnrO

that, at that price, and with electric start, would be tempting.

[ragnar_d]

Briggs and Stratton just released a 6500w starting / 5000w steady, inverter generator! I’d prefer an HF Predator 7000watt or so inverter genny, but this looks really, really good.

https://amzn.to/2NNJnrO
Yeah, if that was available it would be "Shut up and take my money" time. Or if they offered a parallel kit for the 3500 setup. The wife wanted a better setup than my old 5kw setup so looking to new setups and a 7kw Predator inverter generator would be the heat.

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, if that was available it would be "Shut up and take my money" time. Or if they offered a parallel kit for the 3500 setup. The wife wanted a better setup than my old 5kw setup so looking to new setups and a 7kw Predator inverter generator would be the heat.

There’s a parallel kit for the 3500, stand by.

[LittleLebowski]

There’s a parallel kit for the 3500, stand by.

Firman 1201.

https://amzn.to/2MRWBUJ


https://youtu.be/vXA-vPpXRpI


https://youtu.be/-anvwKbdtUA

[hufnagel]

I want a 48VDC generator, to pair up with a battery pack and one of these...
https://www.sigineer.com/product/12000-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-48volt-to-120240vac-split-phase/

thinking, if the generator is activated periodically to charge up the batteries (aka, runs at it's most efficient output and one that's higher than average draw), you'd be able to keep noise to a minimum. Hell if you did it right, I bet you could go all night without a generator source kicking off to charge everything back up.

[hufnagel]

actually... whoa....
https://theinverterstore.com/product/6600-watt-portable-inverter-generator/
https://theinverterstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/GEN6600Wmain.jpg
6600 Watt 120/240V AC Portable Pure Sine Inverter Generator
$2,073.00

ok, it's not cheap, but it's a 240V INVERTER generator.
that's... interesting.

[LittleLebowski]

actually... whoa....
https://theinverterstore.com/product/6600-watt-portable-inverter-generator/
6600 Watt 120/240V AC Portable Pure Sine Inverter Generator
$2,073.00

ok, it's not cheap, but it's a 240V INVERTER generator.
that's... interesting.

Damn, if that was cheaper, would buy.

[ragnar_d]

Firman 1201.

https://amzn.to/2MRWBUJ


https://youtu.be/vXA-vPpXRpI


https://youtu.be/-anvwKbdtUA

Well that definitely changes thing for my plans. Thank you sir.


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[hufnagel]

Damn, if that was cheaper, would buy.

The pricing is in line with the scaling factor used for standard generators, just the absolute level of cost is up there.
For that price You're deep into 12kW < 5% THD v-twin spin-on oil filter equipped units.
Still, it's tempting. If my 5500w Husky unit can run 16.5 hours on 5 gallons gas, I wonder how much more fuel efficient that inverter unit would be.

I wish someone would take one if these inverter units and give it an optional battery port for power storage.

Also, did you know they're making LiFePo4 12v 200Ah deep cycle batteries now? 4000 cycles @ 100% discharge rate. Not cheap at $1700/battery, but they're out there. Compared to AGMs, LiFePo4 destroy in terms of longevity (20x estimated).

Someone gimme $20k and I'll do some ideas testing for P-F. :D

[rob_s]

I already bought my 8kw Generac, and plan on buying one of the HF inverters, but...

In hindsight I might have just bought two of the inverters and chained them together when needed. However, since this is mostly about "feeling" secure there's something about having the big boy that makes me feel better about it. Even if I can't get it into the truck by myself.

I would have felt better on our worrycane hurrication if I'd have been able to drag along at least some sort of emergency power.

[LittleLebowski]

I already bought my 8kw Generac, and plan on buying one of the HF inverters, but...

In hindsight I might have just bought two of the inverters and chained them together when needed. However, since this is mostly about "feeling" secure there's something about having the big boy that makes me feel better about it. Even if I can't get it into the truck by myself.

I would have felt better on our worrycane hurrication if I'd have been able to drag along at least some sort of emergency power.

Your Generac can handle big duties like AC/ fridge, etc especially if you get that switch installed on the house and the HF inverter is easily man portable, so I think your reasoning is sound.

[StraitR]

Can you run then on ECO mode for any of what you do?

I got one of the little Hondas to run a small window AC unit, it wouldnt kick the compressor over reliably on ECO mode, but ran fine once it was on. I got a hard start capacitor ($12) and it now kicks the compressor over easily on ECO mode, I get 6+ hrs out of a tank of fuel. Not sure on total time it will run, I dont have an hour meter and try not to let it run completely out.

http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/05/27/rv-air-conditioner-hard-start-capacitor

I've found ECO only works for simultaneously powering a lamp, fan, and charging phones. Anything past that, and it kicks up. The biggest thing I care to run is our refrigerator, and I tend to run it on a 2:1 ratio. One hour on, half hour off. It's full power the complete time it's on.

[tanner]

Oil change time.

41958

I just changed my oil the other day. Made a huge mess, and then decided to check and see if youtube could help me out.

Video showed taking that whole side panel off (DUH!). Made it much easier for me and my fat hands than the little port cover. Easier to clean up all the oil I spilled! :mad:

[Grey]

I already bought my 8kw Generac, and plan on buying one of the HF inverters, but...

In hindsight I might have just bought two of the inverters and chained them together when needed. However, since this is mostly about "feeling" secure there's something about having the big boy that makes me feel better about it. Even if I can't get it into the truck by myself.

I would have felt better on our worrycane hurrication if I'd have been able to drag along at least some sort of emergency power.

If I knew I was staying in my current place long term I would totally be getting a generac system for the house and hook it up with an auto transfer.

[gringop]

For easy oil changes with smaller engines.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S59MM6I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's actually made of brass and won't go TU after a few uses. I got it to pump out some oil via my trucks dipstick tube after I overfilled it. The supplied intake hoses are too short for for a long dipstick tube but 50' of 1/4 OD drip watering system hose for $4 made for lots of long enough hose.

For my small gas engines it's gonna work great. Works better if the oil is warm but the brass transfers that heat fast, use a glove or rags to hold it.

Gringop

[ragnar_d]

For those looking to get into the HF 3500 inverter generator game, the HF email list has good news for you.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/a43ee2bb534180d2aaf4873ce6df68aa.jpg

I think I’m going to see if the wife would be interested in getting my Christmas present a little early this year.

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[andre3k]

I have a 10k/8k Generac portable and planned on installing a transfer switch for several years. I called an electrician out and he recommended an interlock and an inlet instead of a transfer switch. It runs the whole panel and I just have to balance out my own load. He quoted 1k for the job. Got a second quote from another company and they suggested not even bothering with an interlock and just wiring the inlet to the breaker box for $500. That whole idea seemed unsafe and against code. Once again I decided to do it myself and installed the interlock and inlet this weekend. Total cost was about $200 for the interlock, power inlet, 30 amp breaker, tapcon screws / masonry bit, conduit and 10ga wire. Took about 2 hrs total to install and it works great. Powers everything in my home except for the 5 ton AC unit. I can run the smaller 2 ton upstairs AC unit but everything else must pretty must be off.

I installed this just in time. There's a tropical storm hitting Houston tomorrow.

42679

[rob_s]

So the interlock is a kind of lockout plate, and the inlet is basically a “cleaner” way of doing the same thing back-feeding from the dryer outlet would do?

I found this
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/77219/what-is-the-difference-between-an-interlock-and-a-transfer-switch

[andre3k]

So the interlock is a kind of lockout plate, and the inlet is basically a “cleaner” way of doing the same thing back-feeding from the dryer outlet would do?

I found this
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/77219/what-is-the-difference-between-an-interlock-and-a-transfer-switchI guess. It feeds into its own 30 amp breaker in the panel. In order to turn on the breaker, allowing the generator to power the panel, it forces you to turn off the main breakers first. Neither of the electricians I consulted with recommended a traditional transfer switch for a portable generator, which was a surprise to me. I run a GE panel and was able to get the interlock at Home Depot.

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[ragnar_d]

For anyone interested who hasn’t picked one up, Harbor Freight just sent out an email blast with a coupon for the Predator 3500 Inverter Generator for $699.99, regularly $799.99.


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[Dog Guy]

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CHAMPION-FULFILLMENT-CHAMPION-GENERATOR/3169352.uts?slotId=0

Champion 2000 watt inverter on sale at Cabela's, $399 instead of $499. Not sure where Champion stands in the pantheon of generators though. And, we're heading down to HF shortly to grab a Predator 3500. Many thanks to LL for starting the thread, and to those who have contributed. It was invaluable to us.

[Dog Guy]

OK, here's an important shopping tip: don't head down to HF to grab a Predator 3500 without remembering that PG&E has announced planned power shutdowns for roughly 2.5 million people due to record high winds causing extreme risk of wildland fire. Power lines have been the cause of a number of very large fires over the last few years. PG&E faces tons of cost due to liability so they've started preventative shutdowns of their system when the wind/fire risk looks bad. Generators have been largely emptied out all the way over here in Reno. %$#&* Californians mess up everything!