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Olim9
10-11-2017, 02:04 AM
Does anyone know of any decent clubs that let you use appendix? There's South Florida pistol club but they restrict appendix for whatever reason. It's a fairly big club from what I hear but they don't let people compete AIWB. I've been putting off competing for the entire year because I want to compete soley with AIWB.

Lon
10-11-2017, 03:13 AM
Interesting. Never been to a USPSA club since that banned AIWB.

LittleLebowski
10-11-2017, 05:34 AM
Does anyone know of any decent clubs that let you use appendix? There's South Florida pistol club but they restrict appendix for whatever reason. It's a fairly big club from what I hear but they don't let people compete AIWB. I've been putting off competing for the entire year because I want to compete soley with AIWB.

AIWB is not against USPSA rules. You may need to notify USPSA HQ.

olstyn
10-11-2017, 06:11 AM
Can't disagree with LL here, although if you haven't already, you might try politely informing the club in question that their restriction goes against the rulebook, and that you'd appreciate being allowed to compete from AIWB. If that fails/already failed, then yeah, contact USPSA HQ; while the club in question might resent you for it, you'll at least be doing something good for others in the future.

ragnar_d
10-11-2017, 10:31 AM
It looks like it's in SFPC's specific bylaws.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171011/9c41ef8a3911668a1bd00b94f30b832b.png

Kind of sucks, that's the club that's closest to me as well and I've been looking to get back into USPSA and South Florida is just not that conducive to it.

If I had to guess, it has something to do with Markham Park and some rule about using the range there.


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Olim9
10-11-2017, 04:00 PM
It looks like it's in SFPC's specific bylaws.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171011/9c41ef8a3911668a1bd00b94f30b832b.png

Kind of sucks, that's the club that's closest to me as well and I've been looking to get back into USPSA and South Florida is just not that conducive to it.

If I had to guess, it has something to do with Markham Park and some rule about using the range there.


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A few weeks back I spoke with some guy who shoots with SFPC at the range I frequent and he said AIWB is allowed for practice matches and he told me he sees people draw from appendix all the time there however you were not allowed to compete AIWB. I'll probably do what LL suggested but I did email who I assume is the director of the club about letting me demonstrate safety in a practice match.

There is the Homestead Training Center, they charge $35 per USPSA match for non members but if you are a member there, it's $25 a match but the annual membership fee is something like $200...

rob_s
10-12-2017, 05:46 AM
Ratting out a club to HQ for an issue like this is gayer than aids.

I also wouldn’t let my chosen method of ninja carry prevent me from getting out and shooting a game.

SFPC is a great club that does a lot given the restrictions of their home range. Stop worrying about holster placement nonsense and go shoot.

olstyn
10-12-2017, 05:58 AM
Ratting out a club to HQ for an issue like this is gayer than aids.

If the club doesn't comply with the rules of the game, then why should the club expect the shooters to comply with the rules?


I also wouldn’t let my chosen method of ninja carry prevent me from getting out and shooting a game.

That part, at least, we agree on.

ragnar_d
10-12-2017, 08:50 AM
SFPC is a great club that does a lot given the restrictions of their home range. Stop worrying about holster placement nonsense and go shoot.
That's the impression I've gotten. Markham seems a bit . . . stringent with their rules (at least compared to where I shot up in AL) but it's understandable given their situation. So them trying to make sure all their bases and butts are covered is to be expected.

I still want to get out there for a match at some point. The rust is so thick I need a 3# sledge to knock it off.



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Mr_White
10-12-2017, 10:33 AM
Are we talking about a USPSA match, or another kind of competition? If it's USPSA, the club isn't allowed to prohibit AIWB in a Division where it's otherwise legal (Open, Limited, and Limited-10.)

taadski
10-12-2017, 10:49 AM
We have a couple local ranges where the clubs operating the pistol matches are separate entities and are forced to deal with range rules that may not jive completely with sanctioning organizations. It hasn't been an issue to that level for us, but I can envision a situation where an IDPA or USPSA club may be forced to comply with private range rules, with the alternative being no matches.

Mr_White
10-12-2017, 11:26 AM
We have a couple local ranges where the clubs operating the pistol matches are separate entities and are forced to deal with range rules that may not jive completely with sanctioning organizations. It hasn't been an issue to that level for us, but I can envision a situation where an IDPA or USPSA club may be forced to comply with private range rules, with the alternative being no matches.

An impasse like that happened here at a big outdoor club, but it was over another club-specific rule (no muzzle of loaded gun allowed over the berm because of populated area surrounding the club.) I get the club's position (in that case I get it a whole lot more than an AIWB prohibition.) And I get USPSA's position (must have consistent rule set across competitions.) And unfortunately, never the twain shall meet, so that club now has an outlaw practical pistol match instead of USPSA. And I go to a different club to shoot matches because I want to shoot official USPSA. Bummer all around!

GJM
10-12-2017, 11:26 AM
In any event, USPSA is not a draw intensive shooting sport, with so many alternative start positions (hands up, down, table starts, etc.), that I would not let a holster influence my decision to participate.

GunRacer
10-13-2017, 04:11 PM
If I were you I'd avoid that cesspool and drive to OKC, Malabar, Volusia, or Universal. Heck, drive straight across and shoot at WAC. There are a lot of awesome clubs in Florida. Don't be afraid to drive. I used to travel five hours round-trip for less than five minutes of shooting. Every weekend.

PFranklin
10-13-2017, 04:29 PM
Its a little ambiguous, although I think I know what they mean to say. However, they should say it. "Gun belt on the strong side..." Perhaps they mean to say holstered on the strong side.

Peally
10-13-2017, 06:11 PM
If they're specifically banning an approved method of carry in USPSA and holding USPSA matches they can get fucked, that should have been considered when they became affiliated. USPSA is excellent because the rules are as close to identical as they can be across the entire country and abroad.

If I show up to a club and stuff like that is going on I don't come back. Got no time for backwater outlaw and surprise fudd rules.

Olim9
10-14-2017, 03:47 PM
If I were you I'd avoid that cesspool and drive to OKC, Malabar, Volusia, or Universal. Heck, drive straight across and shoot at WAC. There are a lot of awesome clubs in Florida. Don't be afraid to drive. I used to travel five hours round-trip for less than five minutes of shooting. Every weekend.

Greatly appreciate the suggestions! I will definately check those places out

RJ
10-14-2017, 04:07 PM
Greatly appreciate the suggestions! I will definately check those places out

I'll be back in Tampa for the winter in November. My local range is Wyoming Antelope Club. I plan to resume regular attendance at matches there over the next five months.

If you ever attend a match at WAC, give me a buzz, I'd be glad to squad up with you, bearing in mind I'm shooting as a Senior U shooter in Production.

Rich

Olim9
10-14-2017, 07:57 PM
I'll be back in Tampa for the winter in November. My local range is Wyoming Antelope Club. I plan to resume regular attendance at matches there over the next five months.

If you ever attend a match at WAC, give me a buzz, I'd be glad to squad up with you, bearing in mind I'm shooting as a Senior U shooter in Production.

Rich

I'll let you know if I ever visit WAC. Since I AIWB, chances are I won't be shooting production rather limited/limited 10.

Olim9
11-08-2017, 07:49 PM
So as an update, just came back from a small match at Homestead Training Center. There was only about 8 other dudes that showed up with only 3 that were also shooting limited, nothing too crazy. RO was cool with me using AIWB and another guy said he will speak with South Florida Pistol Club on the whole "can't do AIWB here" thingy.

USPSA is pretty fun and it's crazy how hard it actually is when you're doing it and not watching some video of a M/GM on Youtube burning a stage down.

Mr_White
11-09-2017, 12:53 PM
So as an update, just came back from a small match at Homestead Training Center. There was only about 8 other dudes that showed up with only 3 that were also shooting limited, nothing too crazy. RO was cool with me using AIWB and another guy said he will speak with South Florida Pistol Club on the whole "can't do AIWB here" thingy.

Glad to hear that!


USPSA is pretty fun and it's crazy how hard it actually is when you're doing it and not watching some video of a M/GM on Youtube burning a stage down.

QFT! I completely agree. To simply navigate about a stage under any time pressure at all, and shoot good points, is a huge task unto itself.

ragnar_d
11-09-2017, 01:25 PM
Glad to hear that!



QFT! I completely agree. To simply navigate about a stage under any time pressure at all, and shoot good points, is a huge task unto itself.
Ditto. USPSA was probably one of my biggest drivers in improving my shooting. When I got into 2-gun, it made the rifle stuff feel like I was cheating. And IDPA . . . forget about it. Sadly it's been a few years since I shot a match (life happens, unfortunately) but I'm looking to get back into in earnest over the next year.


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Mr_White
11-09-2017, 01:53 PM
USPSA was probably one of my biggest drivers in improving my shooting.

Same here. Trying to place well in overall match results is a readily available, no bs, shooting challenge related directly to the disciplined application of skill (on-demand shooting.) A match won't let me kid myself about how I did...

rob_s
11-09-2017, 01:55 PM
So as an update, just came back from a small match at Homestead Training Center. There was only about 8 other dudes that showed up with only 3 that were also shooting limited, nothing too crazy. RO was cool with me using AIWB and another guy said he will speak with South Florida Pistol Club on the whole "can't do AIWB here" thingy.

USPSA is pretty fun and it's crazy how hard it actually is when you're doing it and not watching some video of a M/GM on Youtube burning a stage down.

I'm glad to hear you made it to Homestead. The owner there is an acquaintance and I've been really happy to see everything he's accomplished there. Unfortunately I've never been able to make it down there way as it's quite the haul from north palm Beach county.

Olim9
11-09-2017, 10:45 PM
I'm glad to hear you made it to Homestead. The owner there is an acquaintance and I've been really happy to see everything he's accomplished there. Unfortunately I've never been able to make it down there way as it's quite the haul from north palm Beach county.

Homestead's range is pretty nice, took a Langdon class there a few weeks ago. I might get a membership there so I can finally shoot my AR at their long distance range and for some other stuff.

I found out I wasn't working today so I went to South Florida Pistol Club and spoke with some dudes there; they told me AIWB is fine but I had to run it with my shirt tucked in but then I later spoke with the head safety director which resulted in the ok to shoot from concealment. Only thing I had to compromise on was keeping my gun exposed when I wasn't shooting which I was fine with. So that club and AIWB is ok, for those who are around the area and were wondering.

Sal Picante
11-09-2017, 11:44 PM
Only thing I had to compromise on was keeping my gun exposed when I wasn't shooting

That's a really odd request, really...

Baffled.

Olim9
11-09-2017, 11:56 PM
That's a really odd request, really...

Baffled.

They wanted to be able to see that I didn't have a mag loaded in my gun. Ya know those darn Darkstar holsters have a tendency of loading a round up and firing the gun when it's holstered. :p

I was just happy I was able to compete from concealment but getting a "I don't like those appendix holsters because it's dangerous" from an old guy that was wearing a Serpa almost made me laugh.

Sal Picante
11-10-2017, 03:22 PM
They wanted to be able to see that I didn't have a mag loaded in my gun. Ya know those darn Darkstar holsters have a tendency of loading a round up and firing the gun when it's holstered. :p

I was just happy I was able to compete from concealment but getting a "I don't like those appendix holsters because it's dangerous" from an old guy that was wearing a Serpa almost made me laugh.

LOL...
Sigh...

Peally
11-10-2017, 03:49 PM
Ignoring the ever ubiquitous range derp is an important skill itself.

Zincwarrior
11-10-2017, 04:59 PM
They wanted to be able to see that I didn't have a mag loaded in my gun. Ya know those darn Darkstar holsters have a tendency of loading a round up and firing the gun when it's holstered. :p

I was just happy I was able to compete from concealment but getting a "I don't like those appendix holsters because it's dangerous" from an old guy that was wearing a Serpa almost made me laugh.

Minor items and baby steps. Glad you found a range that does it. Finally in larger local matches, but I've not seen anyone competing with this type of holster yet.

Zincwarrior
11-10-2017, 05:00 PM
Ignoring the ever ubiquitous range derp is an important skill itself.

If you're like me and half deaf its not a problem...whatcha say sonny?

jetfire
11-10-2017, 05:12 PM
I wasn’t really impressed with the USPSA scene at Markham Park; standing around for 6 hours to shoot 4 mediocre stages in a concrete oven with no breeze isn’t really a great way to spend a Sunday morning.

Homestead on the other hand is pretty great, at least for Steel Challenge. I’m going to check out their IDPA scene tomorrow; I haven’t shot an IDPA match since Nationals in 2014, and I’m always curious to see how local club culture influences the direction of the match.

Olim9
11-10-2017, 06:06 PM
I wasn’t really impressed with the USPSA scene at Markham Park; standing around for 6 hours to shoot 4 mediocre stages in a concrete oven with no breeze isn’t really a great way to spend a Sunday morning.

Homestead on the other hand is pretty great, at least for Steel Challenge. I’m going to check out their IDPA scene tomorrow; I haven’t shot an IDPA match since Nationals in 2014, and I’m always curious to see how local club culture influences the direction of the match.

What sets a good stage apart from a mediocre one in your opinion?

olstyn
11-10-2017, 06:36 PM
What sets a good stage apart from a mediocre one in your opinion?

Obviously I'm not caleb, but in my opinion, truly good stages are ones that present multiple options for how to navigate them and/or are designed around some sort of interesting concept, thus making you think about how to proceed. I enjoy the puzzle aspect of the sport. One of my favorite stages ever was sort of a memory stage, except that thinking about it beforehand, I had a eureka moment about how to shoot it without having to remember which targets I'd shot at each exposure. Even though I had a mediocre finish at the overall match, getting to solve that puzzle made it a good day. Other folks' opinions may vary.

GJM
11-10-2017, 06:51 PM
Here is something about USPSA and AIWB. Generally, those most impressed with shooting from concealment, AIWB or otherwise, don’t shoot USPSA. Most USPSA shooters are puzzled why someone would want to shoot from concealment, or think you got the IDPA and USPSA match dates confused.

jetfire
11-10-2017, 08:26 PM
Obviously I'm not caleb, but in my opinion, truly good stages are ones that present multiple options for how to navigate them and/or are designed around some sort of interesting concept, thus making you think about how to proceed. I enjoy the puzzle aspect of the sport. One of my favorite stages ever was sort of a memory stage, except that thinking about it beforehand, I had a eureka moment about how to shoot it without having to remember which targets I'd shot at each exposure. Even though I had a mediocre finish at the overall match, getting to solve that puzzle made it a good day. Other folks' opinions may vary.

Some of it is this, certainly. Stages can be simple and still be good, though. I don’t like things such as intentional 180 traps, or gimmicky props.

Peally
11-10-2017, 08:35 PM
Here is something about USPSA and AIWB. Generally, those most impressed with shooting from concealment, AIWB or otherwise, don’t shoot USPSA. Most USPSA shooters are puzzled why someone would want to shoot from concealment, or think you got the IDPA and USPSA match dates confused.

It solely depends on how well they actually shoot. No one is seriously going to poop on Gabe for winning limited with junk carry. Hyper competition specific gear doesn't impress me either if they can't perform with it.

Regardless, how impressed people are means jack.

LOKNLOD
11-10-2017, 09:47 PM
Here is something about USPSA and AIWB. Generally, those most impressed with shooting from concealment, AIWB or otherwise, don’t shoot USPSA. Most USPSA shooters are puzzled why someone would want to shoot from concealment, or think you got the IDPA and USPSA match dates confused.

It’s not the norm and when you behave outside the norm it draws attention. And often when someone is at a match doing something “wrong”, aka, different, it’s usually a newbie who showed up with what he has and is fumbling through, so some guys immediately go into “i’m helping!” mode.

I shot a match from appendix last week and got a lot of questions, too. One guy was really confused and came over while I was reloading mags and questioned me pretty hard like I didn’t understand how this all worked. Oh well.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-10-2017, 10:33 PM
It’s not the norm and when you behave outside the norm it draws attention. And often when someone is at a match doing something “wrong”, aka, different, it’s usually a newbie who showed up with what he has and is fumbling through, so some guys immediately go into “i’m helping!” mode.

I shot a match from appendix last week and got a lot of questions, too. One guy was really confused and came over while I was reloading mags and questioned me pretty hard like I didn’t understand how this all worked. Oh well.

Left IDPA almost 2 yrs. ago b/c my LE buds started playing USPSA in Texarkana & liked that they had a carry optics div. After a match/two asked the MD if he was good w/ me using AIWB/concealment, got a thumbs up & been running it that way since.

Had a few ask early on where my gun was but usually everyone in my squad are LE friends & since the MD & I have gotten close, he leaves us alone b/c we are the least of his worries.

olstyn
11-10-2017, 11:10 PM
Some of it is this, certainly. Stages can be simple and still be good, though. I don’t like things such as intentional 180 traps, or gimmicky props.

I think good matches have a mix of stage types - some complex ones you have to think through/figure out, and some simple ones that are designed for fun. 180 traps and other stage design/construction that set shooters up to be in situations where they're likely to get DQed only serve to make people feel bad and make the job of the ROs more difficult. I've never been excited about props. The suspension/wobble bridge somebody brought to a match I attended a while ago was pretty fun for me, but if there had been anybody there with physical limitations, it could have been problematic for them to navigate it safely. Not sure if that's what you mean by props, but I feel like we're at least mostly on the same page.

Olim9
11-11-2017, 01:06 PM
I think good matches have a mix of stage types - some complex ones you have to think through/figure out, and some simple ones that are designed for fun. 180 traps and other stage design/construction that set shooters up to be in situations where they're likely to get DQed only serve to make people feel bad and make the job of the ROs more difficult. I've never been excited about props. The suspension/wobble bridge somebody brought to a match I attended a while ago was pretty fun for me, but if there had been anybody there with physical limitations, it could have been problematic for them to navigate it safely. Not sure if that's what you mean by props, but I feel like we're at least mostly on the same page.

There couldn't possibly be people who will deliberately design stages to DQ people would they? I already shot in 3 90 degree stages and had no problems with my gun handling.

olstyn
11-11-2017, 01:33 PM
There couldn't possibly be people who will deliberately design stages to DQ people would they?

I don't think it's common, but the word "intentional" placed before "180 traps" in caleb's post responding to mine earlier is probably a clue that some stage designers/builders do it. The ones I've seen that could cause issues usually involve targets that can be seen from multiple places, and some of the views you could get on them are such that the target in question is slightly uprange of you, or stages that are designed such that the last shot you fire is right up against the 180, so you need to be aware of it and turn downrange before unload/show clear, etc. In my experience, though, ROs will usually warn a squad during the stage briefing if there's something iffy about the stage, which tends to mitigate that sort of issue. That said, if a stage has multiple "features" of that type, shooters have lots of opportunities to screw up in DQable ways, and we're all human, so...

rob_s
11-12-2017, 08:22 AM
I don’t be,ieve I’ve ever seen a deliberate 180 trap designed into a stage. I have seen a lot of stages where there was a 180 trap, often from trying to replicate a stage from another range onto a range where it’s not possible, and stage designers that were unwilling to modify the stage once it was pointedly out.

Mr_White
11-12-2017, 12:39 PM
It’s not the norm and when you behave outside the norm it draws attention. And often when someone is at a match doing something “wrong”, aka, different, it’s usually a newbie who showed up with what he has and is fumbling through, so some guys immediately go into “i’m helping!” mode.

I shot a match from appendix last week and got a lot of questions, too. One guy was really confused and came over while I was reloading mags and questioned me pretty hard like I didn’t understand how this all worked. Oh well.

One person very kindly told me that I don't have to shoot from concealment. I said oh I know, I just like to do it that way. He seemed really concerned at first, then not so much later. I pretty much just smile and say yeah but I like it.

ragnar_d
11-12-2017, 01:38 PM
I don’t be,ieve I’ve ever seen a deliberate 180 trap designed into a stage. I have seen a lot of stages where there was a 180 trap, often from trying to replicate a stage from another range onto a range where it’s not possible, and stage designers that were unwilling to modify the stage once it was pointedly out.
Agreed. I've never seen it done intentionally. If I remember correctly, it was something we spent time on when I got my RO certification. I've been lucky enough that the MDs I've had were very conscientious about it.

At Markham, I could see some issues since (from the pictures I've seen via google maps) there aren't really bays but just a bunch of stages setup along the impact been with nothing dividing them. I could see that causing some issues with stage design if so . . .

Also, is Homestead doing any weekend IDPA/USPSA matches for the rest of the year?


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Olim9
11-12-2017, 11:19 PM
Also, is Homestead doing any weekend IDPA/USPSA matches for the rest of the year?

I'm not seeing anything USPSA but they do have Steel Challenge every third Sunday of the month. Their USPSA matches are rather small, according to a guy I spoke with over there.

Sal Picante
11-13-2017, 12:33 PM
I don’t be,ieve I’ve ever seen a deliberate 180 trap designed into a stage. I have seen a lot of stages where there was a 180 trap, often from trying to replicate a stage from another range onto a range where it’s not possible, and stage designers that were unwilling to modify the stage once it was pointedly out.

2017 Iron Sight Nationals, stage 1.

Peally
11-13-2017, 01:11 PM
2017 Iron Sight Nationals, stage 1.

Diagram looks completely mundane, but I didn't see it in person. Are the NS targets beyond 180 by a degree from the ports or something?

Regardless, was it designed that way to intentionally goad people into violating rules? Or was it simply an oversight/shit design/stubbornness?

jetfire
11-13-2017, 01:47 PM
I don't think it's common, but the word "intentional" placed before "180 traps" in caleb's post responding to mine earlier is probably a clue that some stage designers/builders do it. The ones I've seen that could cause issues usually involve targets that can be seen from multiple places, and some of the views you could get on them are such that the target in question is slightly uprange of you, or stages that are designed such that the last shot you fire is right up against the 180, so you need to be aware of it and turn downrange before unload/show clear, etc. In my experience, though, ROs will usually warn a squad during the stage briefing if there's something iffy about the stage, which tends to mitigate that sort of issue. That said, if a stage has multiple "features" of that type, shooters have lots of opportunities to screw up in DQable ways, and we're all human, so...

Like Mr Pepperoni said right above here, it's absolutely happened. If I never left Palm Beach/Broward/Miami-Dade county, I probably wouldn't see intentional 180 traps; however when you get out and shoot travelling matches you get exposed to a lot of different stage design ideas. I've shot stages where there were clearly 180 traps that were put in place by the stage designers to "force people to pay attention or they'll go home" which I think is a messed up way to design a stage.

When I talk about gimmick props, a really good (bad?) example of that would be a lot of the stages from 2017's Area 3 match, which had shooters do some really goofy stuff like run with a big stupid baton, or run through a forest of pool noodles; things like that. I like props that test people's physicality and agility, I don't like things that are just sort of tossed into a stage with no apparent reason.

A good stage prop should test your either your physical ability or your marksmanship ability, and if a prop doesn't test either of those, I question its inclusion.

Sal Picante
11-14-2017, 03:09 PM
Diagram looks completely mundane, but I didn't see it in person. Are the NS targets beyond 180 by a degree from the ports or something?

Regardless, was it designed that way to intentionally goad people into violating rules? Or was it simply an oversight/shit design/stubbornness?

They DQ'd Doug Koenig for a very dubious 180 call. The middle, left array was setup for a reload on exit and you had them hawking to see if people were even near the 170 while pushing off.
A lot of people would kinda square up and face the targets which were maybe 30 degrees off the 180.

The fact that they used it as a 180 trap was the BS. It was bullshit and the response was "Hey the stage is as built". I dunno if that implies it was intentional or not.

In the past one of our local MD's would build stages with difficult upward movement (he was IPSC-oriented vs USPSA oriented) and he certainly relished "catching a few newer people".

One of the reasons I took control of the club and started changing things...

Zincwarrior
11-14-2017, 03:24 PM
They DQ'd Doug Koenig for a very dubious 180 call. The middle, left array was setup for a reload on exit and you had them hawking to see if people were even near the 170 while pushing off.
A lot of people would kinda square up and face the targets which were maybe 30 degrees off the 180.

The fact that they used it as a 180 trap was the BS. It was bullshit and the response was "Hey the stage is as built". I dunno if that implies it was intentional or not.

In the past one of our local MD's would build stages with difficult upward movement (he was IPSC-oriented vs USPSA oriented) and he certainly relished "catching a few newer people".

One of the reasons I took control of the club and started changing things...

New to USPSA, but what does "he was IPSC oriented vs. USPSA oriented" mean?

Peally
11-14-2017, 03:44 PM
Yeah if there's people actually salivating like that looking for 180 DQs on shitty designs they need to be ejected into the sun and never RO again.

Sal Picante
11-15-2017, 01:56 PM
Yeah if there's people actually salivating like that looking for 180 DQs on shitty designs they need to be ejected into the sun and never RO again.

Yeah - my approach is to help them re-learn things... The goal is to build the tribe, sometimes MF's need a noggin-knocking to help them see the light.
It is way easier to do with subterfuge then not... At least at the local level.

Nationally? You're always going to have one of those RO's... Pay attention to them, not just the stage/shooter/etc... Are the RO's dickish? How long before they press the buzzer?

Sal Picante
11-15-2017, 01:58 PM
New to USPSA, but what does "he was IPSC oriented vs. USPSA oriented" mean?

IPSC does far more "retreating movement" and tough technical positions than USPSA... It isn't tougher, necessarily, but it can be jarring to some of the people that get used to doing things the USPSA, "FORWARD! FORWARD! FORWARD!" mentality/approach.

Zincwarrior
11-15-2017, 03:49 PM
IPSC does far more "retreating movement" and tough technical positions than USPSA... It isn't tougher, necessarily, but it can be jarring to some of the people that get used to doing things the USPSA, "FORWARD! FORWARD! FORWARD!" mentality/approach.

Interesting. IPSC must be French.:rolleyes:

Sal Picante
11-15-2017, 04:04 PM
Interesting. IPSC must be French.:rolleyes:

The "surrender handle" on the famous FAMAS, eh?

Zincwarrior
11-15-2017, 04:15 PM
The "surrender handle" on the famous FAMAS, eh?

Exactly.

jetfire
11-17-2017, 05:49 PM
Interesting. IPSC must be French.:rolleyes:

I came here to make that joke. Dammit.